Step into this insightful conversation between Michael Zeldin and Doug Melville on the latest episode of "That Said." Together, they explore the narrative of Doug's new book, Invisible Generals: Rediscovering Family Legacy, and a Quest to Honor America’s First Black Generals. This remarkable true story unveils the pivotal roles played by Benjamin O. Davis, Sr., and Jr., America’s first Black generals, in integrating the military and fostering the iconic Tuskegee Airmen.

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Join Michael in his conversation with Professor Edward L. Ayers about his fascinating new book American Visions: The United States, 1800-1860 which explores the revealing history of this most formative period in US history when voices of dissent and innovation help create visions of America still resonant today.

Professor Ayers is Tucker-Boatwright Professor of the Humanities at the University of Richmond, where he is President Emeritus. President Barack Obama awarded him the National Humanities Medal in 2013, hailing his "commitment to making our history as widely available and accessible as possible."

Professor Ayers has written prizewinning books on the history of the United States. They include In the Presence of Mine Enemies: Civil War in the Heart of America, winner of the Bancroft Prize and the Beveridge Prize; and The Promise of the New South: Life After Reconstruction, a finalist for the National Book Award and the Pulitzer Prize, and The Thin Light of Freedom: The Civil War and Emancipation in the Heart of America, winner of the Lincoln Prize and the Organization of American Historians’ prize for best book on the Civil War era. His most recent books are Southern Journey: The Migrations of the American South, 1790-2020 and American Visions: The United States, 1800-1860.

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On today’s show, we will be speaking with Scott Eyman about his fascinating new book, Charlie Chaplin vs. America, When Art, Sex, and Politics Collided which explores the life and times of the movie genius leading to his banishment from the United States in 1952.

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On today’s show we will be speaking Dr. Sanjay Gupta about his book Keep Sharp:Build a Better Brain at any Age which tackles the subject of brain health from the perspective of what we can do to build and maintain a better brain to prevent cognitive decline.

Dr. Gupta is an Associate Professor of neurosurgery at Emery University School of Medicine, a member of the National Academy of Medicine, and CNN’s Emmy Award-winning chief medical correspondent.

He is also the host of the podcast Chasing Life. This coming season he will discussing weight and health including an exploration of the new weight-loss drugs on the market.

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Join Michael in his conversation with Jane Fox about her new book The Hungry Mother: Recipes for Recovery and Life in the Kitchen which traces Jane’s past struggles with addiction, her recovery, and how cooking and faith provided a path to sustained sobriety

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Jane is a NY State Certified Recovery Peer Advocate and co-founder of NERALI, a sobriety resources for the Long Island Jewish Community. She is a leading advocate for incorporating structured culinary workshops into drug and alcohol recovery programs.

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Join Michael in his conversation with Oliver Franklin-Wallis as they discuss him new book Wasteland: The Secret World of Waste and the Urgent Search for a Cleaner Future which takes inside the secretive multi-billion-dollar waste management industry and shares a blueprint for building a healthier and more sustainable future before we are buried in our own trash.



Oliver is an award-winning magazine journalist and is the current feature editor for British GQ magazine. In 2017 he was named the Print Writer of the Year by the British Society of Magazine Editors. This is his first book.

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Join Michael in his conversation with Sally Jenkins about her new book, The Right Call: What Sports Teach Us About Work and Life, which explores seven fundamental principles behind great decision-making gleaned from her decades-long career as one of the great sports writers of our time.

Sally Jenkins has been a Washington Post columnist and feature writer for more than twenty years. She has been a Pulitzer Prize finalist and the winner of the Associated Press Red Smith Award for Outstanding Contributions to Sports Journalism. 



In 2005 she was the first woman to be inducted into the National Sportscasters and Sportswriters Hall of Fame.

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Join Michael in his conversation with Professor Laurel Leff about her recent book, Well Worth Saving: American Universities’ Life-and-Death Decisions of Refugees from Nazi Europe which explores the how American Universities made decisions about which scholars fleeing Nazi-occupied Europe were worth saving and those who they left to die.

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Join Michael in his discussion with historian Heather Hendershot in a discussion of her new book When the News Broke: Chicago 1968 and the Polarizing of America, which revisits the TV coverage of the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago and compellingly argues that this convention was a pivotal moment in American history when the notion of a liberal biased media became mainstreamed and nationalized.

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Join Michael in his conversation with Michael Finkel to discuss his new book, The Art Thief: A True Story of Love, Crime and a Dangerous Obsession which chronicles the life of Stephane Breitwieser the most prolific art thief in history responsible for the theft of over 200 works of art in a ten-year period worth nearly two billion dollars.

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