This talk continues the exploration of impermanence, momentariness, and insubstantiality—all aspects of what Buddhism refers to as emptiness—and adds the aspect of interdependence. It highlights the context of Zazen practice, emphasizing that the exploration needs to be experiential (through the spine and hara), not just intellectual. The koan phrase “Heaven, earth, and I have the same root; the 10,000 things and I share the same body” is introduced as a door to the practice of interdependence.