The Argument

Spirit Airlines is dead and the right, true to form, is blaming Joe Biden. 

The immediate cause of Spirit's demise is pretty clear: the war with Iran spiked jet fuel costs, and the already-battered airline couldn't absorb the hit to its bottom line. Last we checked, Joe Biden didn't start any wars with Iran. 

In this episode, Matthew Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas break down what really happened with Spirit Airlines, the weird history of aviation policy in the U.S., and the conspiracy by some progressives to reduce competition in the space. 

(0:00) Spirit Airlines is dead
(7:07) The blocked JetBlue merger
(14:54) 1960s airline nostalgia
(21:12) Matt’s tinfoil hat theory
(26:29) Pre-Carter airline monopolies
(35:26) The dawn of deregulation
(47:17) Anti-monopolists want less competition
(54:19) America’s protectionist policies
(58:22) Peer review: Marriage and gender-coded purchases

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com 

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Betty Friedan thought Korean POWs were dying in captivity because their mothers were housewives. She thought boy moms were making their sons gay. She wrote a whole chapter comparing suburban kitchens to concentration camps — in 1963, while America was still processing what concentration camps actually were. 

"The Feminine Mystique" is one of those important books that everyone "knows" but no one has actually read. 

For today's episode of The Argument podcast, Matthew Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas read and review the book that kicked off second-wave feminism. 

0:00-Introduction to The Feminine Mystique
9:02-Psychotherapy, Mad Men, and Marxist origins
20:02-The true drivers of social change
30:52-Famous books with massive effects
35:07-The most insane parts of The Feminine Mystique
47:33-The female happiness paradox
51:34-Rating the book’s success
56:54-Peer Review: Health benefits of WW2 sugar rationing?

New episodes post every Thursday.

For an ad-free version, show notes, and full transcript, subscribe at TheArgumentMag.com. 

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com 

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Matthew Yglesias wants to end asylum. 

On a new episode of The Argument, Matt argues that the post-WWII asylum framework is not just politically untenable but practically unworkable. 

Jerusalem Demsas, true to form, disagrees.

New episodes post every Thursday.

For an ad-free version, show notes, and full transcript, subscribe at TheArgumentMag.com. 

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Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com 

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

For the past century, America's foreign interventions often carried the pretense of liberal idealism – to help bring peace and prosperity to people around the world. 

But it doesn't take a history scholar to know that positive outcomes weren't always the result. 

In the latest episode of the Argument, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias debate the merits of liberal hypocrisy, its benefits and drawbacks, and whether it's worth bringing it back. 

New episodes post every Thursday.

For an ad-free version and full transcript, subscribe at TheArgumentMag.com

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com 

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

People tend to defend online anonymity by pointing to the long tradition of anonymous speech in American democracy.

But modern anonymity is an entirely new beast. 

Should we ban anonymity on the internet? That's what The Argument's Jerusalem Demsas and Slow Boring's Matthew Yglesias debate in The Argument's latest episode.

New episodes post every Thursday.

You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. 

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Visit TheArgumentMag.com for show notes.

(Illustration by The Argument, image by Jorge Quijite)

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com 

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

When the Supreme Court rejected affirmative action at colleges and universities in 2023, finding that Harvard and the University of North Carolina practiced race-based discrimination against Asian American students, Chief Justice John Roberts wrote, "eliminating racial discrimination means eliminating all of it." 

The case, decided along ideological lines, caused a stir among progressives.

But was this discrimination the inevitable consequence of affirmative action policies? Or did it simply give cover to people with genuinely racist beliefs?

“The core problem with affirmative action — how it was being practiced, particularly at Harvard — is that they were just being racist to Asians … What was happening was not just like, ‘Oh, we’re all well-meaning people trying to improve [society]. These people had racist views about Asian Americans,” declared Jerusalem Demsas in The Argument’s premiere podcast episode.

In this heated conversation, Matthew Yglesias and Jerusalem tackled affirmative action, an increasingly unpopular policy. And the Harvard case sits at the heart of the debate.

“In a basic way,” lamented Matt, “it is not a good idea to be slotting people into racial and ethnic categories and judging them on that basis. It's not fair to people, and it's not healthy for society.”

WATCH THE EPISODE HERE

New episodes post every Thursday.

You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. 

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Further reading:

“Diversifying Society’s Leaders? The Determinants and Causal Effects of Admission to Highly Selective Private Colleges” by Raj Chetty, David J. Deming, and John N. Friedman

“Breaking Systemic Barriers: Being Black in the Aquatic Sciences and Related Fields” by Lauren Pharr

“Smartphones, Online Music Streaming, and Traffic Fatalities” by Vishal R. Patel, Christopher M. Worsham, Michael Liu, and Anupam B. Jena

Corrections:

For more detailed show notes, visit TheArgumentMag.com

(Photo: Harold M. Lambert/Archival Photos via Getty Images)

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com 

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Watch the official trailer for The Argument — a new podcast cohosted by Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias.

Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending?

Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds.

This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or softball interviews. Each week, one host argues a distinctive point of view — armed with facts and research, not just pundit bluster — and then Matthew and Jerusalem hash it out.

New episodes post every Thursday, starting April 9.

You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts.

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com 

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Are men naturally promiscuous and drawn to younger women? Are women obsessed with tall, older, rich men? Dating discourse is littered with pop evolutionary psychology that makes broad claims about how men and women are under a thin veneer of scientific credibility. But how much of it is backed by real science?

In this episode of The Argument, host Jerusalem Demsas interviews UC Davis psychology professor Paul Eastwick about his new book, Bonded by Evolution: The New Science of Love and Connection. Eastwick breaks down some of the memes and myths about what evolutionary psychology really says about attraction and how we fall for each other.

The Argument is a podcast dedicated to honest, unflinching debate about the biggest questions facing democracy, culture, and our future. As the host, Editor-in-Chief Jerusalem Demsas brings together voices across the political spectrum to argue, challenge, and persuade. Each episode is a space where disagreements are confronted directly, with clarity and conviction, rather than hidden or shouted down.

For a full-length, ad-free version of our podcast, you can become a paid subscriber. You can watch the full version with ads for free by subscribing to our YouTube channel. The audio version is also available wherever you get your podcasts.

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts

The Argument podcast with Jerusalem Demsas is available wherever you get podcasts. New shows drop every Monday. If you like the show, leave a comment and ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.

Articles, studies, and posts referenced in the episode can be found on our website.

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com 

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Economists love to say there are no free lunches. Jennifer Doleac thinks criminal justice is one of the rare places where that’s wrong.

In this episode, host and Editor of The Argument, Jerusalem Demsas talks with Doleac—economist and author of The Science of Second Chances—about what happens when you treat crime policy like an empirical problem instead of a morality play. 

Rejecting the false choice of being "tough on crime" or "soft on crime," Doleac surfaces a surprising number of reforms that can reduce crime and make the system more fair.

The Argument is a podcast dedicated to honest, unflinching debate about the biggest questions facing democracy, culture, and our future. As the host, Demsas brings together voices across the political spectrum to argue, challenge, and persuade. Each episode is a space where disagreements are confronted directly, with clarity and conviction, rather than hidden or shouted down.

We want to hear from you! If you liked the episode, disagreed with it, or have a guest or episode suggestion, reach out at [email protected].

For a full-length, ad-free version of our podcast, you can become a paid subscriber. You can watch the full version with ads for free by subscribing to our YouTube channel. The audio version is also available wherever you get your podcasts.

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts

The Argument podcast with Jerusalem Demsas is available wherever you get podcasts. New shows drop every Monday. If you like the show, leave a comment and ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.

Articles, studies, and posts referenced in the episode can be found on our website.

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com 

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Trump didn’t just reshape the GOP—he may have ended what we used to call “the conservative movement.” 

New York Times columnist Ross Douthat joins host Jerusalem Demsas to map the new right: the collapse of fusionism, the rise of nationalism, and a media ecosystem where influencers matter more than institutions.

Then they argue about what liberalism can and can’t solve. Can abundance and faster growth stabilize democracy, or are the deeper crises cultural, spiritual, and demographic in ways GDP can’t fix? 

The Argument is a podcast dedicated to honest, unflinching debate about the biggest questions facing democracy, culture, and our future. As the host, Editor-in-Chief Jerusalem Demsas brings together voices across the political spectrum to argue, challenge, and persuade. Each episode is a space where disagreements are confronted directly, with clarity and conviction, rather than hidden or shouted down.

We want to hear from you! If you liked the episode, disagreed with it, or have a guest or episode suggestion, reach out at [email protected].

For a full-length, ad-free version of our podcast, you can become a paid subscriber. You can watch the full version with ads for free by subscribing to our YouTube channel. The audio version is also available wherever you get your podcasts.

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts

The Argument podcast with Jerusalem Demsas is available wherever you get podcasts. New shows drop every Monday. If you like the show, leave a comment and ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.

Articles, studies, and posts referenced in the episode can be found on our website.

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com 

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.