What’s more important in securing a band’s longevity - hit songs or a classic album? I put this question to Meegan and Allison Closner (the twin sisters that make up two-thirds of Joseph along with their sister Natalie Closner Schepman). Their answer seemed clear enough. For Joseph, it’s all about the album. 

So, is the band’s new album The Sun a classic?

Only time will tell. Personally, I resisted any notion of hearing the record before its release. My orange ‘sun’ vinyl is in the post and I will listen to it just as one should, as the needle drops on side one track one (Waves Crash). I do have faith that Joseph can make a classic however - because they have already done it once before.

I first discovered Joseph’s music by way of a complete and very happy accident. I had sat down briefly with the head of an indie label, and as I often do, I asked the question “who should I be listening to?”. His reply was both immediate and singular: “Joseph”.

Okay then - easy to remember at least. I later fired up Spotify and typed the word Joseph into the search bar and there they were. Joseph - an Americana band of three sisters from Joseph, Oregon.

I’m always surprised when I don’t know a band in this genre - and Joseph had just released their third L.P. Good Luck Kid. And the album is a belter. Just fantastic Americana-country-pop. Wholly accessible but ambitious and expansive. It’s everything an Americana album should be - if not a concept album, then a start-to-finish cohesive piece of work. Good Luck Kid ended up as my favourite album from 2019 and so the band’s fourth album The Sun comes with a sense of high anticipation.

Then, Allison & Meegan told me about working with Tucker Martine and recording The Sun in his Flora studios in Portland, which ups the stakes about as high as they can get for a new record to my ears.

But, what does it mean to make a classic album in 2023?

Rick Rubin is keen to point out that the creation of a record is not a competition, and who are we to argue with the master builder of records? And yet, how can it not be a competitive situation in some ways, with scores of albums - really good ones - released week-in, week-out. The obvious answer is to compete with yourself and let others in as inspiration.

As Meegan says:

“We’ve taken in the classic bands we’ve come across in our adulthood, The Rolling Stones, Fleetwood Mac - who would not be influenced by those”. “But [with this album] we keep asking ourselves the question, do we like this? This has to be us. “I hope that we’ve made an album that lasts through time.”

Joseph have already done it once, so what’s stopping them doing it again? Every band aspiring to be the real deal deserves their moment in the sun, maybe The Sun will be Joseph’s time. 

(an extended write-up appears on songsommelier.com)

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In this episode of the Art of Longevity, we have the pleasure of chatting with Stuart Braithwaite, a member of the internationally renowned post-rock band Mogwai. Known for their masterful use of crescendos, Mogwai have been making music since 1995, with 11 studio albums that have gained increasing popularity over time, with their latest 'As The Love Continues' reaching the lofty milestone of #1 in the UK album chart.

Stuart's recently published autobiography, 'Spaceships Over Glasgow,' offers an insightful exploration of the band's progression and key periods of their journey. Though they never consciously planned for their success, Stuart shares some valuable insights into how artists can remain relevant and popular over a long period of time. 

“I can’t see any of this as conscious…’ We weren't expecting to be making 5/ 6 albums, never mind 10/11”.

Despite the resolute lack of long-term planning, Stuart and his merry band have become masters of the music long game. One key takeaway is the importance of confident incremental steps and staying true to the original values that inspired them to pursue music. Stuart notes that some bands lose their edge by changing their sound to fit a particular trend, while Mogwai remained steadfast in their approach.

Maybe they are simply building to the crescendo that destroys all crescendos!

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Being a longevous, ‘real deal’ music artist requires many things, but being pure in heart is certainly one. And there are few people on this earth as pure in heart as Rickie Lee Jones. 

With the completion of Last Chance Texaco in 2019 (her brilliantly evocative and critically revered addition to the vast ‘rock memoir’ library) Rickie Lee permitted herself to look back to those early days and draw new inspiration from them. 

“Before I finished that book, I was burdened, but when it was done I began to shed my fears. I am 68 years old and you cannot scare me any more”.

The resulting first studio album release since then is Pieces Of Treasure, Rickie Lee’s versions of a selection of American songbook classics including Nature Boy, September Song, Sunny Side of the Street and no less than two iconic Sinatra numbers. The success of this album is in the way Rickie Lee finds her way to occupy these well-travelled songs.

But, this being The Art of Longevity, I want to know about the bad times as well as the good. And Rickie Lee Jones has had more than her fair share of years in the wilderness. By her 90s records (Pop Pop, Traffic From Paradise and Ghostyhead ) Rickie Lee’s career showed the classic curve for established artists, of high critical acclaim but steadily reduced commercial success. 

Even after a minor resurgence in the 2000s (beginning with the superb Evening Of My Best Day), a further decade of being largely forgotten left Rickie Lee broke and unable to find a record label to release new music. How did she get through that time?

“I thought, maybe this was payment for having so much success so fast. It’s a kids game and there are many many new young artists coming up at any time. The thing is to teach the audience that you are not just a pop artist but that you are a real musician”.

We listeners, have a lot to learn!

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It has taken Dave Rowntree ages to make his first non-soundtrack body of work outside of Blur, especially when you consider their last album Magic Whip, is almost a decade old. Then again, perhaps it explains why Radio Songs has come out very well indeed - better than the public might have a right to expect, given the track record of drummers stepping out from behind the kit. 

The album’s electrosonic palette is drawn from all Rowntree's influences, including Air and Talk Talk, with - as we discuss, hints of Robert Wyatt and Thomas Dolby. And more predictably perhaps, Blur. It is surprising just how much Rowntree’s vocal style is reminiscent of his bandmate Damon Albarn, who collaborated on the record only from a distance, giving Rowntree feedback in the form of one page of notes. 

Now he’s gotten round to it, Rowntree has caught the bug for making solo records, he plans two more over the next two years, provided he doesn’t get too distracted by Blur. His plans to tour Radio Songs this year have been somewhat derailed by what he calls “Blur’s megapolis summer”. 

And so inevitably then, to Blur. Where does it fit in his schedule and his headspace?

“Fundamentally I’m still the drummer in Blur, that’s how I see myself, but if you plot Blur activity on a graph, it’s tapering away to zero, so it’s not going to last forever”. 

So, how does he feel about stepping out to perform live as frontman after all those years behind the kit? Undaunted is the answer:

“It has felt surprisingly natural really. The music starts and you get swept along in it. I’m happiest out on the road, gig every night, different town every day - there’s something seductive about that”. 

Whether or not the Blur bandwagon keeps rolling, Dave Rowntree looks like he has found himself a second longevous career in music. 

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Gavin Rossdale doesn’t think that Bush's longevity story in the music business as high drama - even though they have had their share of industry shenanigans, let-downs and, for nearly eight years, a split, until the band reformed in 2010. 

“It's the inevitability - bands might choose to settle for where they’re at. It might be difficult to go from arenas to clubs, but bands have to follow their hearts. And if you don’t, what else are you gonna do anyway”.

He hasn't settled for anything like that for Bush, a band that was back at number 1 of the Billboard rock charts as we spoke. Of course, the band’s career is unusual in that this is a British band that made it big in America - but never found anything like as much success in their native UK. Funny when you think about the history of UK bands that have tried to break America - and almost broken themselves in doing so.

As the band is about to embark on a major US tour we talk about what happens in preparation, which is a lot more than meets the eye. Getting in the right headspace is vital, and not always easy. To say that Gavin manages his own contradictions is an understatement. On the one hand, Bush and Rossdale's longevity has brought with it a clarity and confidence. On the other hand, all the insecurities of the classic creative mind remain at work.

"I don’t have regrets but I reflect on those moments to sharpen my mind going forward. The later part of my career, the youthful ignorance has gone and the horizon is perfectly visible, therefore it hones and sharpens my resolve”.

“I’m never content with what I do. I have a very strange process of self doubt and imposter syndrome until something good breaks through - and then I think, “for fucks sake shut-up”, and then I break through it”.

Long and successful careers in rock bands are not linear processes, nor are they straightforward to handle, psychologically. But Gavin Rossdale has this longevity thing sorted.

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The egoless band can go a lot further than most bands. A strong element of that is embracing creative changes of direction - agreeing on it and being brave about it. Let’s face it, something we know about longevity is that taking creative risks is not an option - at some stage every band must do it. As fans, we all have a favourite Bowie album and a least favourite one. The same goes for every band, and that includes English indie-rockers Editors. 

Impressive then, that Editors have forged a new creative direction not once, but twice. The latest incarnation is hardly as an indie-rock band at all, but as an electronic outfit that has dived wholly into the musical scene that is electronic body music - so much so, they even named their new album (their 7th), EBM.

Less a genre and more a philosophy, this certainly makes good copy for the new Editors record. Indeed, keyboard player and backing vocalist Elliott Williams even suggested it could have been on the album’s cover sleeve.

They’ve pulled it off with aplomb, with an album that has a motor on it, and absolutely no filler whatsoever. And when you think about it, the move - as radical as it seems - is more an organic evolution of where the band has been going since 2010’s ‘In This Light And On This Evening’. But then, Editors’ career has been an ongoing exercise in managing expectations. As Tom Smith puts it:

“We were this deeply alternative band that were there by accident really. We’ve always found inspiration in the shadows, it suits us. It’s why we’re still here”. 

Editors have navigated a path to longevity that covers the bases: creative shifts, changes of line-up and not getting attached to the trappings of fame. However in the end, for all the drama in their music, this is a band that has survived through pragmatism, friendship and staying grounded. It’s been a Karma Climb of sorts, and long may they go on. 

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Let’s face it, there is a patchy record for solo artists that began in popular 90s bands. Some crossed the rubicon to a credible solo career and some didn’t. While Gaz Coombes enjoyed the full glare of the spotlight of the second half of the 90s with Supergrass, his solo work has surpassed those years in many ways. 2018’s World’s Strongest Man felt like a step forward in this third phase of Coombe’s music career (he has been making music in commercial bands since the age of 15, so let’s call Supergrass his second phase).

Gaz hasn’t felt the need to rush things. Since Supergrass split in 2010 (they came together for a resplendent but brief reunion live tour in 2022) he has released four solo albums, each one a steady progression on the one before. But none of his solo work sounds like the band that first made him a famous face and voice.

What’s been cool about doing these last few solo records is building up this entirely new fan base, not just expecting people to have come over from Supergrass”.

The path to a viable, successful solo career is a pretty precarious one, but it feels like Gaz has found his way on that path. His new album Turn The Car Around continues in the same vein as World’s Strongest Man, showcasing the variety of tricks Coombe’s has in the bag, from classic melancholic songs to nagging grooves and dirty guitar sounds. From this point onwards, he’s pushing himself further. 

“I’ve called this album the last one of a trilogy, just to force myself to look at my career in a different way from now on. I’ve known where I wanted to take it before but this time I’m not sure. I want to do something different, so it’ll be jazz metal”. 

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Rumer’s arrival struck a similar chord to that of Norah Jones some six years earlier i.e. refreshingly out of time. Those singles Slow, Aretha and their host album Seasons of My Soul arrived so fully formed although (as with Norah Jones) Rumer was another case of ‘overnight success 10 years in the making’.

“It was planes, trains and automobiles, that was my journey to getting a record deal and in those days you had to have a record deal. I couldn’t imagine doing a self-release – I didn’t have the knowhow, team or energy. But getting a record deal seemed to be as likely as winning the lottery. I was just a girl working three jobs and trying to survive”.

 This went on for years and years – almost a decade – of doing low-key circuits, song-writing between jobs and with very little hope of ever getting a music career off the ground - even with that voice. After all, we don’t live in a world where talent rises naturally to the top. Then all of a sudden, at the last roll of the dice, everything happened all at once. Signed by Atlantic Records, Rumer was thrust to the top of the pedestal - signing dinners, showcases, chart success, radio play, then mixing with pop royalty and even invitations to the White House.

 What followed was an all too familiar tale, a most typical music industry story. Rumer became an exemplar of everything the music industry machine can do. As she puts it on The Art of Longevity:

I was like a rabbit in the headlights, just spinning. I didn’t really enjoy it but I was shaming myself for not enjoying it because it was what I had wanted”. Everything goes so fast, you can’t think – you need other people to think for you – and at that point you become vulnerable. Your energy, magic and sparkle is drained from you”.

Yet perhaps, she played the right card at the right time. To follow-up her phenomenal debut Rumer released a covers album Boys Don’t Cry, in 2014. She encountered some resistance to that, but she stuck to her guns and got her way. And that album was also a major success. She became something of an expert at interpretation of others’ songs, some of them long forgotten gems. 

One of the secrets to longevity we’ve discovered on The Art of Longevity is “have the confidence to disrupt yourself before the industry disrupts you”.

Rumer did just that and survived to tell the tale.  It's a fascinating journey. 

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The Delines’ world is a sprawling, blue collar soap opera. Flawed characters, aimless drifters, chancers and grifters, barroom fights, beat-up cars, parking lots, convenience store robberies, messed up relationships and broken dreams…the characters are never far off disaster - indeed they are predestined. It’s so romantic, it is magnificent.

As a recording band, The Delines are meticulous in rendering that world so perfectly. Their three full-length studio albums are full of the stories that make up this wider soap opera, and with 2022’s The Sea Drift, there is the added context of these stories based in the state of Texas and the Gulf Coast of Mexico. As a concept album you’ll be hard pushed to find anything as immersive. Visual, novelistic writing, music economically played purely as a vessel for the songs, each musician plays with an exquisite restraint. Leading all this is Amy Boone’s voice, so occupying its subjects as to put you the listener into each and every tragic scene. 

As Vlautin admits The Delines are “a small time band”, just like a music industry equivalent of the small time characters they write, sing and play about. Yet, as we discuss on the Art of Longevity - they are really occupying the same space, metaphorically and musically speaking - as Springsteen or Lana Del Rey. I wouldn’t say either of those artists aren’t the real deal, everyone knows they are. Yet if it’s real music you want, then may we humbly introduce you to what might become your favourite new band. 

The Delines really are as real as the characters they sing about. 

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In this episode, Fenner Pearson chats to Neil Arthur about his writing process and how he works on the Blancmange albums, with Benge acting as his foil and producer, and his collaborations with Fader and Near Future. Arthur touches on the number of ideas “buzzing and fizzing” around his head that has led to him recording sixteen albums in eight years. This in turn provides an interesting insight into the whole process of releasing an album in 2022 compared with 1982!

Perhaps what comes across most clearly is Arthur’s creative energy, from the studio where he records and develops his ideas, through the time spent working with Benge in the latter’s studio, right up to his enduring enjoyment of playing live, including his current tour where he performs with the enthusiasm and energy of someone who obviously relishes performing their music to an audience. 

And there is no sense that Neil is slowing down: he is in the process of mixing completed albums with Near Future and a covers album with Vince Clarke, as well a new collaboration with Liam Hutton and Finlay Shakespeare as The Remainder, and a new Fader album. On top of that, he will be performing at a number of festivals next year. 

It’s an inspirational interview, in which Neil Arthur illustrates and exemplifies how a passion for music and a relentless creative energy has directly resulted in his artistic longevity and joyous cascade of albums from Blancmange and his many other projects.

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