A controversial British government plan to send asylum seekers to Rwanda has been central to the UK’s response to a recent sharp increase in the number of people making the dangerous journey across the English Channel in small boats. But if the Conservative party lose the general election in early July, the Rwanda plan is likely to be abandoned.

In this episode, two experts in UK immigration policy explain how the Rwanda plan became such a crucial part of the immigration debate in the UK. And how, whatever happens in the election, it’s already shifting the wider conversation in Europe about how to deal with migrants and asylum seekers.

Featuring Nando Sigona, professor of international migration and forced displacement and director of the Institute for Research into International Migration and Superdiversity at the University of Birmingham and Michaela Benson, professor in public sociology at Lancaster University. They're both co-hosts of the Who do we think we are? podcast. This episode also includes an introduction from Avery Anapol, one of the politics team at The Conversation in the UK.

This episode was written and produced by Mend Mariwany with assistance from Katie Flood. Eloise Stevens does our sound design, and our theme music is by Neeta Sarl. Gemma Ware is the executive editor. Full credits available here. Subscribe to a free daily newsletter from The Conversation.

• Is the Rwanda plan acting as a deterrent? Here’s what the evidence says about this approach
• Rwanda asylum deportation plan faces more delays – how did we get here?
• Bespoke humanitarian visa schemes like those for Ukraine and Hong Kong can’t replace the asylum system
• I’ve spent time with refugees in French coastal camps and they told me the government’s Rwanda plan is not putting them off coming to the UK
• More coverage of the UK general election