The Cinematologists Podcast

In the first of our 2024 LFF double header on the main feed, Neil and Dario are joined by one of the two correspondents joining us for this year's coverage, Ben Goff.

The focus of the episode are deep dives into key films for Neil, Dario and Ben from their early and pre-festival viewing, on the digital platform and at press and industry screenings on the ground in London, at BFI Southbank and Picturehouse Central. Each of the cinematologists take two films each to pore over, with Dario discussing Mati Diop's Dahomey and Athina Rachel Tsangari's Harvest, Ben delving into La Cocina directed by Alonso Ruizpalacios and India Donaldson's Good One. Finally, Neil goes long on Soundtrack to a Coup D'Êtat (dir. Johan Grimonprez) and short on Sofa So Good (dir. Thiele Brothers).

Elsewhere there is discussion of approaches to festival viewing and a quick overview of Neil and Dario's response to Radu Jude's latest experimental pastiche/provocation/essay Eight Postcards from Utopia (co-dir. Christian Ferencz-Flatz), with some valuable insight from Dario's Romanian partner Bea. 

The Cinematologists is providing consistent, detailed coverage of this year's LFF over on its Patreon. For more information and to support the show, please visit https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists.

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We are expanding our output so if you enjoy the show and find value in the work, any support you can give would be very much appreciated. You can become a member for the same price as a coffee a month.

We also really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.

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Music Credits:

‘Theme from The Cinematologists’

Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

 

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe

In our second episode of the season, we discuss Neil's superb, recently published book Music Films: Documentaries, Concert Films and Other Cinematic Representations of Popular Music.

We explore their significance, evolution, and the complexities surrounding their creation and reception, along with Neil's reflections on the challenges of writing for diverse audiences and the expectations of music fans. The conversation touches on the validity of music films in modern culture, the messiness of the genre, and the importance of representation, particularly regarding black artists and women in music. They also examine the ethical implications of music documentaries and the power dynamics at play in the portrayal of artists. 

Neil's book is so comprehensive we couldn't cover everything but some of the films under discussion include Don't Look Back (dir. D. A. Pennebaker, 1967), Lonely Boy (dir. Roman Kroitor and Wolf Koenig, 1962), Whatstaxx (dir. Mel Stuart), The Punk Singer (dir. Kathleen Hanna), In Bed with Madonna (dir. Alek Keshishian, 1991), The Last Angel of History (dir. John Akomfrah, 1996), American Interior (dirs. Dylan Goch, Gruff Rhys), Miss Americana (dir. Lana Wilson, 2020), and many more.

Here's a link to Dario's Substack article: 10 Music Films you may not seen (and are free on YouTube)

You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Music Films and Their Impact
02:37 Neil's Journey with His Book
06:34 The Validity of Music Films in Modern Culture
08:54 Expanding the Canon of Music Films
11:31 The Messiness of Music Films
14:20 Writing for Diverse Audiences
17:23 Navigating the Expectations of Music Fans
19:50 The Balance of Coverage in Music Films
22:55 Exploring Authorial Voice in Music Documentaries
24:14 The Evolution of Music Film Styles
28:40 The Role of Technology in Music and Film
31:49 Gender Dynamics in Music Documentaries
34:31 Exploitation in Music Documentaries
37:28 The Complexity of Artist Representation
39:28 The Importance of Black Artists in Music Films
42:05 The Legacy of Music Documentaries
46:46 Women in Music: A Historical Perspective
50:47 The Power Dynamics in Music Films
55:32 The Ethics of Music Documentaries
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If you haven't already, please consider becoming a subscriber to our Patreon channel: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists
 
We are expanding our output so if you enjoy the show and find value in the work, any support you can give would be very much appreciated. You can become a member for the same price as a coffee a month.
 

We also really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.

___

Music Credits:

‘Theme from The Cinematologists’

Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe

We are back for the 20th season of The Cinematologists Podcast and our 10th year. Neither of us when we started out could have envisaged that we would have done what we have with the Podcast, spoken to so many fascinating film people and cultivated such a loyal audience. 

Indeed, this season represents something of a renewal, as is discussed in the first episode of the season. After taking a break from the last season Dario is back, bringing with him quite a few personal and professional changes that form the basis of a discussion about life, work and cinema.

We reflect on how the context of academia has changed so much in recent years and this has affect how we both view what we do. The also conversation also delves into themes of identity, the value of teaching, and the tension between academia and capitalism, while also highlighting the importance of authenticity and passion in their work. As we look to the future, we are feeling invigorated and excited for new opportunities and the potential even more valuable and joyful experience in making the podcast and bringing to you.

With Dario moving out of his full-time post and into a more freelance space, the Podcast will be aligning with that to some degree. Primarily this means we will be expanding the Patreon channel and hoping to sign up new members.

Another aspect of this is we will offer as many episodes as possible early and in video format on the Patreon. Our plan is to drop the videos as bonus for you on a Tuesday the week they go out and then audio version will go out on the podcast feed on Thursday.

The amount and variety of content you will receive will be much more significant. We plan to continue the newsletters and the after-show bonus episodes. Extended interviews will also be available in full only on Patreon, and coverage of events like the London Film Festival will be extensive.

Because of this, we want to try to entice more listeners to join the Patreon. We would really appreciate your help. If you value the content, please take the time to recommend and share it with your colleagues and friends and, of course, on social media.

We hope you enjoy the new season and all this new content. As always, please get in touch with any feedback or comments about the films we discuss. We always like to mention any interesting points that the listeners make on the show.

We hope you love the new season and, as always, appreciate your continued support.

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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.

We also produce an extensive monthly newsletter and bonus/extended content that is available on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists

You can become a member for only £2.

We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.

___

Music Credits:

‘Theme from The Cinematologists’

Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe

In the final episode of the latest season – Neil’s solo adventure – Neil talks to filmmaker, writer and comedian Scott Tanner Jones about collecting physical media. In an episode with a similar approach to the previous one with Kat Flint-Nicol, Neil brings to the podcast a conversation about themes and ideas that permeate his thinking around a particular area of film, and wider popular culture. In this episode Neil and Scott discuss their approaches to collecting films (and records) in physical form.

The conversation takes in areas such as curating what you watch, interest in particular physical media boutique labels, how physical media isn’t the be all and end all, cataloguing the year in film in different ways, studio interest and care in their back catalogues, Scott’s favourite places in his adopted hometown of LA to watch movies, the demand on our eyeballs and they answer the question, is David Lynch quirky?

Films discussed in this episode include Cocoon, Something Wild, Midnight Cowboy, E.T., Midnight Run, MaXXXine, La Chimera, Evil Does Not Exist and Hit Man.

To close out the episode and season, Neil shares some of his thoughts on his favourite releases of 2024 so far, and his first half of the year in film watching more broadly.

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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.

We also produce an extensive monthly newsletter and bonus/extended content that is available on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists

You can become a member for only £2.

We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.

—

Music Credits:

‘Theme from The Cinematologists’

Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe

In the penultimate episode of the season, Neil sits down with friend and colleague Kat Flint-Nicol to think through British cinema. The aim was to focus on regionality, but the conversation is much-more wide ranging than that. It captures the complex intersectionality of place, class, genre, industry gatekeeping, and the relationship between industry and culture. 

Films, places and texts discussed in this discursive chat include Rochester and Dickens, and David Lean’s Great Expectations, Terence Davies, The Commitments, Nick Love, Sexy Beast and the crime cinema that followed it, Muscle and Hyena, Guy Ritchie, Last Orders, Ray Winstone, Rose Glass and Shane Meadows. 

It is fascinating conversation and hopefully provides insight into Neil and Kat’s current thinking about the complexities of British Cinema historically and contemporarily.

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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.

We also produce an extensive monthly newsletter and bonus/extended content that is available on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists

You can become a member for only £2.

We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.

Huge thanks to the publicist Chris Lawrance for making this conversation happen.

—

Music Credits:

‘Theme from The Cinematologists’

Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe

As we enter the final weeks of the latest season, it is an honour to share this mini episode (a 45rpm single as opposed to 33.3rpm LP if you will) ahead of two final regular episodes before our summer break and the return of Dario for the autumn season.

Neil was invited at short notice to chat to filmmaker Gary Hustwit about his revolutionary, generative film, Eno, about the life, creative practice and philosophy of Brian Eno. Having just released a book on Music Films, Neil was excited to talk to a filmmaker for a film that feels as close to the ideal of a music film - one where the form has a synchronous relationship with the subject - as is possible.

So please enjoy this short conversation (hopefully a prelude to a longer one down the line) with Gary Hustwit, and if it’s showing near you, please try and catch the film, which due to a generative programme that works with an archive of historic and specifically filmed material, is different every time it is viewed - https://www.hustwit.com/eno.

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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.

We also produce an extensive monthly newsletter and bonus/extended content that is available on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists. You can become a member for only £2.

We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.

—

Music Credits:

‘Theme from The Cinematologists’

Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing. 

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe

Pat Kelman, born in Essex but raised in Cornwall, has been an actor, filmmaker, theatre-maker and programmer. Presently, he finds himself releasing independent and arthouse cinema that other distributors deem too niche or challenging via his inspirational 606 Distribution company, as well as programming a wild collection of formative films and beloved double bills through his Pat's Film Club screenings that are hosted at Truro's wonderful WTW Plaza Cinema. 

Neil has been a regular at the film club and has known Pat for a numhers of years and he wanted to sit down with Pat to talk about his life in cinema and the current state of independent film releasing as well as what informs the decisions he makes regarding what to screen at his film club.

The conversation covers his formative years and the early film experiences that shaped him as a person - horror cinema and seeing certain films so/too young, the influence of filmmakers including Mike Leigh and Atom Egoyan, his time visiting London's infamous Scala cinema, the power of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest (Forman, 1975), his experiences making improvised feature films and BFI funded shorts, by committee. 

What defines Pat's career is how he invests in people, and trusts people, loves cinema and is a true cinephile. Towards the end he talks about his move into horror programming and re-releasing cult films as part of 606's evolution. It was a joy to spend time talking to cinema whose work is underpinned by perpetual enthusiasm for and belief in filmmakers and audiences, and cinema as an art form.

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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.

We also produce an extensive monthly newsletter and bonus/extended content that is available on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists. You can become a member for only £2.

We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.

—

Music Credits:

‘Theme from The Cinematologists’

Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing. 

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe

To coincide with the release of his latest film The Beast (starring Léa Seydoux and George Mackay), writer/director Bertrand Bonello came on the podcast to talk about AI and technology, acting, connection, memory, music and perplexing cinema.

It was an honour for Neil to talk filmmaking and cinema - taking in Eyes Wide Shut, David Lynch and Sunrise - for the podcast, as Neil and Dario are big admirers of Bonello’s work and it’s a privilege to have one of the world’s most interesting contemporary filmmakers on the show.

Highlights from the Episode:

• Perplexing Cinema: Bonello discusses his preference for films that engage viewers in active thought, asking questions rather than providing answers.


• Casting Insights: Learn about the challenges and triumphs of casting George McKay and the enigmatic Lea Seydoux, whose performances bring profound depth to the film.


• AI and Memory: The film’s exploration of AI delves into the subjective nature of human memory and emotion, highlighting the inherent limitations of technology in capturing the human experience.


• Music as Narrative: Bonello’s meticulous selection of music is more than an illustration—it’s a narrative tool that enhances character and story.


• Cinematic Time: Discover how Bonello plays with time in his films, creating a fluid and immersive experience for the audience.

The Beast is released by Vertigo Releasing on Friday May 31st in UK cinemas and marks the filmmaker’s boldest and most cinematically adventurous film to date. It’s one of the films of 2024 and The Cinematologists is proud to have welcomed Bertrand on the show to promote the film’s release.

Huge thanks to the publicist Chris Lawrance for making this conversation happen.

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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.

We also produce an extensive monthly newsletter and bonus/extended content that is available on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists. You can become a member for only £2.

We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.

—

Music Credits:

‘Theme from The Cinematologists’

Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe

The latest episode was the brainchild of longtime Cinematologist Mark Jenkin (Bait/Enys Men) who wanted to screen one of his favourite films, John Milius's Big Wednesday (1978) at his local cinema, the gorgeous Newlyn Filmhouse, in South West Cornwall. 

Over a languorous chat before the screening, and over some wonderful chips, Neil and Mark talk about the film and its director, surfing and Mark's upbringing in North Cornwall, the podcast, film programming, filmmaking and all sorts. During the conversation, the lovely staff from the Filmhouse pop in and out making sure the hosts are ok.

After this the episode moves into the screen, where Neil and Mark intro the film and are joined afterwards by a large portion of the sell-out crowd to reflect on the screening and the many complex and moving elements of the film, before Neil and Mark say goodnight on the steps of the cinema as staff close it for the day.

Thank you to Mark for choosing the film and being so generous with his time, thoughts and energy at the event. Thanks to Kingsley for manning the roving mic and thanks to Alastair and staff at the Filmhouse for their support, hospitality, and chips. 

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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.

We also produce an extensive monthly newsletter and bonus/extended content that is available on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists. You can become a member for only £2.

We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.

—

Music Credits:

‘Theme from The Cinematologists’

Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe

On a recent visit to London, Neil and Dario sat down to catch up about Dario's break from this season's shows, the present and future of the podcast and some recent film releases they've both seen and enjoyed. 

They discuss two films they saw together across a relaxing shared weekend; Ilker Çatak's The Teachers' Lounge and Wim Wenders' Perfect Days. They also discuss Felipe Gálvez Haberle's The Settlers, which they have both seen, but separately. 

Conversation covers the context of the films they watched together, waxing lyrical about The Garden Cinema in Covent Garden, where they watched The Teachers' Lounge, as well as the invitation to think and converse provided by watching Perfect Days at home.

Elsewhere Dario talks about the experience of being up close and personal seeing Brian Cox in Eugene O'Neill's Long Day's Journey Into Night, and Neil discusses seeing Dev Patel's Monkey Man (2024) and Ryusuke Hamaguchi's Evil Does Not Exist (2023) which leads the pair into a discussion about the Japanese filmamker, a contemporary favourite of both Neil and Dario's.

Oh, and very importantly, there were buns! Yep! Included in the episode is commentary and tasting of Dario's partner Bea's generous baking of cinnamon buns for your erstwhile hosts. (There are also in places some uneditable rogue coughs courtesy of two ageing podcast hosts. Apologies).

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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.

We also produce an extensive monthly newsletter and bonus/extended content that is available on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists. You can become a member for only £2.

We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.

---

Music Credits:

‘Theme from The Cinematologists’

Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

 

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe