My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is award-winning author of crime fiction and work in other genres, Melissa Yi.
Check out our discussion about her plans for the Hope Sze medical thriller series, as well as her young adult, romance, and fantasy writing, along with her experiences with Kickstarter. And get to know a bit more about Cthulhu.
You can download a copy of the transcript here.
Debbi: Hi everyone, this is the Crime Cafe, your podcasting source of great crime, suspense, and thriller writing. I’m your host, Debbi Mack. My guest today is an author who follows the maxim, write what you know. She’s an emergency doctor who writes a medical crime series. She also has been nominated for the Arthur Ellis and Derringer awards for her work. She’s also written in a wide variety of genres, including young adult, romance, science fiction, and fantasy.
It’s my great pleasure to have with me today, Melissa Yi. Hi Melissa, how are you doing today?
Melissa: I’m so good, Debbi. I just want to tell you that I did end up winning the Derringer Award.
Debbi: Oh, that’s awesome. Excellent. Way to go.
Melissa: Thank you. One year nominated, one year win, you know, these things come and go, but when you win, you should take it.
Debbi: Oh, yeah, yeah. I didn’t know that. So I’m glad you mentioned that. Yeah, definitely mention it. So about your latest book, it’s a young adult novel, isn’t it?
Melissa: Yeah, I’ll see if I can get it to stay in frame. Okay, great. I love it. The Red Rock Killer.
Debbi: Yes. Yes. Tell us about it. What inspired you to write this book?
Melissa: Okay, well, did you know that the International Thriller Writers every year they have the Best First Sentence Contest? And I look, yes, and it’s free to enter. I think you have to be a member though. And membership is free too. And so then they have all these bestsellers who will go through and then pick out their favorite sentence. And I looked at some of the sentences and I was like, okay, I’m going to write one, too.
So I wrote, just trying to remember correctly. “The summer I turned 14, my mother told me I could do whatever I wanted. So I decided to find the Red Rock Serial Killer.” And after I sent it in, I was just like, what a strange sentence.
So I wrote, just trying to remember correctly. “The summer I turned 14, my mother told me I could do whatever I wanted. So I decided to find the Red Rock Serial Killer.” And after I sent it in, I was just like, what a strange sentence. Like, really? Why would a 13 year old be looking for a serial killer? I mean, okay, if it’s for a podcast or something, but in real life, like, it’s just sort of odd. But I kept writing it a bit. And I was like, you know, obviously, she wants to do this. She has a mother like, I just kept writing. And then that sentence won the best first sentence from Allison Brennan, who’s a New York Times bestseller. So I was like, awesome.
Yeah, this is amazing. And then shortly after that, they had a contest where R.L. Stein and some other judges were going to pick the best middle grade crime novel that was written by a Black, Indigenous or person of color. And the prize was to come to Thriller Fest in New York and $1,000. So I was like, oh, I already have this book that I started, kind of out of nowhere.
So I’m just going to keep going with it. And as I was writing, I was like, okay, her name is Edan, which is a name that means fire and it’s spelled E-D-A-N. And her mother thought that this was a good name for somebody who was born in the desert, because when I looked it up, I didn’t even know where the Red Rocks were.
But my choices were, oh, you could basically be in Quebec, Canada, or you could be in Las Vegas. And I already have a series that’s set in Quebec. So I was like, we’re going to Las Vegas. And that was fun for me, like, you know, it’s a different country and because I’m Canadian and stuff.
And she had two best friends. And one of them is Callie Yang, and she’s a swimmer and she’s a good girl, you know, like she’s the teacher’s pet kind of thing. And the other one is Barstow. And he’s pretty well off, like he’s the best. Well, he’s the most well off out of the three of them, which is a bit of a bone of contention with him and Edan, not because they want it, but just because Edan’s mom is a single mom and she doesn’t have as much money. And he loves video, but they both love video games, like they’re always playing Stardew Valley and stuff. So I’m like, OK, I have these three teenagers who are going to end up finding a serial killer.
And what happens? And in this case, it was they end up going hiking for Callie’s birthday and find a barrel in the desert. So there’s not, you know, explicit blood and guts or anything like that. They don’t end up seeing a body, which makes it more middle grade and younger YA. But it’s just a lot of fun. I love her.
There’s actually also a finalist for the, I’m going to have to think of the correct name. It’s the Claymore Award for the unpublished manuscript for the Killer Nashville. So people really enjoy Edan if they meet her. And she’s also the cousin of Hope, who is my main protagonist. Although they haven’t met each other yet. So that part is not done. But for now, she’s an innocent 13-year-old finding bodies in the desert.
So people really enjoy Edan if they meet her. And she’s also the cousin of Hope, who is my main protagonist. Although they haven’t met each other yet. So that part is not done. But for now, she’s an innocent 13-year-old finding bodies in the desert.
Debbi: Wow. Very interesting. Fascinating how a contest like that where you came up with a single line led to a book.
Melissa: I am the kind of person that I just love randomness. So if you show me something, I will try and make something out of it. But you know how they say, like when you’re writing poetry, one line drops from the sky. This is a book that felt like it kind of dropped from the sky.
Debbi: I kind of know the feeling. Yeah, I get where you’re coming from. I wrote my own YA pretty much the same way. It was like a line occurred to me and then I kept going. Weird.
How do you choose which genre you want to write in? Like you’ve done many genres. And do you kind of like pick a story and say this is good for sci-fi or fantasy or YA? Or do you explore the genre and come up with the story?
Melissa: Stories first for me. Yeah, I’m actually not good at genre. It’d be like. You know, some people are really into fashion and they’re very precise. Like, for example, one of my friends said she met a woman who only wore red or chartreuse. And that’s all she had in her house. Like that’s how she, like it made her very happy to have only these tones. That was so foreign to me. Like, I mean, I love like so many colours, like the brighter, the better.
You know, again, like people like of all kinds, a variety of animals, like just a lot of things like foods and spices, like just variety makes me happy. So I actually have difficulty seeing genre, like if people are like. You know, for example, I show like somebody’s like I was at a book fair and a woman was like, “Oh, I only read romance.” So I showed her Wolf Ice, which is a werewolf thriller and romance. And she was horrified. And she was like, “I said romance.” And I’m like, yes, it is. But OK, I guess we have different ideas of what romance is, you know?
Melissa: But for me, actually, I am trying to be a little bit more strategic about it just in that I have realized that medical thrillers are not as big a market as I would like them to be. So even though Hope is now a supernatural thriller series, like I’m doing The Seven Deadly Sins and I’m working on Sloth. So I’m bringing in Cthulhu.
So these things, it should bring more people, but it won’t necessarily bring more people. Well, I’m just going to say romance is the biggest genre. So I am also trying that out for 2025. I want to keep my hand in mystery thrillers, but also do romance.
Debbi: That’s cool. I mean, the fact that you’re aware of what it is you like to do and what you do and that you don’t let arbitrary rules define you, I think. I think that’s pretty cool.
Melissa: It is. I wish I could be cool and marketable.
Debbi: Well, there’s a market for people who are looking exactly for something different, you know, something like, say, romance, but a little bit different or something like crime, but a little bit different. Like definitely a 13-year-old going after a serial killer, investigating a serial killer is pretty different.
Melissa: Yeah, I hope so. I hope I can find people who are, you know, who love change and innovation instead of, you know, rereading the same.
I hope I can find people who are, you know, who love change and innovation instead of, you know, rereading the same.
Debbi: I agree. I think, you know, I think there are people out there who are looking for that kind of thing, honestly, because, you know, after a while, you get tired of reading just the same old tropes over and over, sort of like television, you know, the way they’ll take something and they’ll beat a trope to death. And it’s like, yeah, it’s a new twist on this. Yeah, they can do it. They do it, too. But it’s like, you know, you got to look for that stuff. Yeah, so I was going to ask you a question about something else, but it’s now escaped my mind. What are you working on now? That’s the question I want to ask you.
Melissa: Oh, amazing. Yeah. So that’s a perfect lead-in.
Yes. So I am working on Sloth. OK, I’m going to try and find. So this time what I did was I ended up pairing with an artist, a local artist named Sarah Leger to work on art with the book, so it may look blurry. It is actually blurry. And I think she wanted that.
Like, so the idea with Lovecraft and Cthulhu and these monsters, it’s not explicit horror. It’s more dread and implication and, frankly, slowly going mad. And so I my husband was the one who suggested it, actually, because I was like, you know, in each of these Deadly Sin books, Hope fights a different monster.
[T]he idea with Lovecraft and Cthulhu and these monsters, it’s not explicit horror. It’s more dread and implication and, frankly, slowly going mad.
And I need a monster that symbolizes sloth or laziness. And he was like, “What about Cthulhu? He’s sleeping.” I was like, oh, OK. I actually hadn’t read H.P. Lovecraft, but I was like, let me give it let me give it a try. And I liked the idea. And so I ended up working with two different artists. I’m just going to show off the art for. OK … trying, trying, trying.
Melissa: OK, I’m going to do, I’m going to do the big one.
Melissa: So this one is no, no. Yes. OK.
Melissa: This one is by Ben Baldwin in the UK, and I do find it amusing. OK, if we can just stay in focus … with the idea, I told him that this one is going to be on neurology. And I like the idea of this tentacled creature attacking a skull. So that’s what he came up with. And there I did a series that goes. So that’s the shoggoth, but it’s actually the dust cover. So there’s probably no way this will all stay in focus. But anyway.
Debbi: I can see most of it. It looks good.
Melissa: Yeah. So it is cool. So this was the first time I worked with artists, which was really neat. And that I ended up writing poems as well as the novel, and so the poems will be in a book called Cthulhu’s Cheerleader, and then the actual book is called Killing Me Slothly.
So the Kickstarter backers can get both of them together in a special edition and everybody else can buy them separately as desired. So I’m working on that. But to be honest, Sloth was just, it’s just so tough. Like it was like, it’s tired and I’m tired. It was just actually sucking out my brain. No, I think I am just, I’m just revising the ending. So I’m hoping that will be done soon. And then I’m also working on romance, which I am just trying to hit all of the tropes. So I have a group of hockey players who are set in Glengarry.
So I don’t know if you know this, small towns are very big in like. Well, there’s it’s one set of romance and I live in a small town that is so cute, like just for example, when we moved in, one of our neighbors made us an apple pie. Another neighbor gave us homemade jam. And a set of pasta plates, which I can assure you they did not do in Montreal.
Like we just, I think, never spoke to our neighbors, you know, so it’s just, and our like our mail carrier, she makes little. Like she gives our dogs treats if she sees them, but like at Christmas, for example, she makes up little treat bags for them and she makes a Christmas card and she specifically names them like and she does. I think she’s made over 100 of these bags for all the dogs on her route.
Melissa: Yes. And that’s just normal where I live. So other people are like …
Debbi: That’s so small townish.
Melissa: It’s so cute. Like I had read online that they were like, OK, well, we have these small towns and people like to romanticize them, but it’s really sad.
And real small towns aren’t like that. And I was like, I actually do live in that small town. So I’m going to try and transmit that through Fire and Ice and the rest of the books in that series, the Glengarry Guards.
Debbi: That’s really nice. I like to hear about happy small towns because I see so many depressed ones on television mostly. They really, really like to dump on small towns.
Melissa: Yeah. And of course, like that’s what people click on and watch. So, I mean, they’re not going to show the happy endings a lot. Like you might get just one one heartwarming thing before the end of the hour. But I was like, you know what? I’m lucky that I live in this place where people care.
Melissa: I’m going to share a bit of that in 2025.
Debbi: All right. I’m ready to move to Canada.
Melissa: OK, yeah. Come on over.
Debbi: All right. All right. For many reasons that I won’t go into right now.
Melissa: Yeah, I got it. I got it.
Debbi: Oh, boy. Let’s see.
Melissa: Canada feels the same. I shouldn’t speak for all of Canada. My part of Canada feels the same.
Debbi: Let’s see. Do you plan to how many more in the Hope Zse series do you think you’re going to write? You’ve got the Seven Deadly Sins going, right?
Melissa: Yeah. So I’m going to finish the Seven Deadly Sins. That’s the plan.
So Sloth is number three. And then I’m going to do Lust next, which is number four. But depending how things go with romance, I may like space out the books a bit more because I know that some people, like who are much more business minded, they’ll just stop a series.
So Sloth is number three. And then I’m going to do Lust next, which is number four. But depending how things go with romance, I may like space out the books a bit more …
I’ll be like, OK, sorry, this doesn’t work or this has to take a back burner. And for me, I was like. There are seven deadly sins. Like it’s kind of weird to stop after three. In my case, it was actually a Kickstarter level where people could choose that they were going to be in a future book. So I have at least three people that I need to put in future books. So the series will continue, but perhaps just at a slightly slower pace.
Debbi: When did you start doing a Kickstarter?
Melissa: With Wrath. I’m just going to show you all my books. So with the first deadly sin. And I’ll just give a Kickstarter tip for any crime people who are looking at it. So there are people who do super well at it, like Sara Rosett, just beloved, you know, put up her historical 1920s mysteries. And it was like, yeah.
But not all mysteries have done as well. And from what I understand, historical, like even historical romance is not considered a huge market. Kickstarter loves fantasy and science fiction. So if you can get that angle in, that would be helpful. So it just so happened that in this series, I started introducing supernatural elements. Well, perhaps suitably this this one had ghosts in it. So, yeah, there you go. I’ll just put it with my face. Why not?
Kickstarter loves fantasy and science fiction. So if you can get that angle in, that would be helpful. So it just so happened that in this series, I started introducing supernatural elements.
So it’s not, I wouldn’t say, a huge selling point, but it’s they do like to have that. And I think they’ve talked about how Brandon Sanderson, you probably heard. Now, I can’t remember how much he made. Forty five million dollars or something like something enormous like that my mind cannot grasp. And so he brought a bunch of fantasy fans to that sphere who are interested in seeing other books like that or in that realm. Or, you know, there’s a market for it.
Melissa: And this may change, too, like right. So as you bring in more fans, they may do that. But just it’s not a given that just like, oh, I put a crime book on and we I make tons of money like exactly.
Debbi: Yeah. Yeah. People don’t realize how much effort goes into doing something like crowdfunding.
Melissa: Yeah, absolutely. People don’t realize like creative work in general, how much work goes into it.
Debbi: Exactly right. Yeah. They just don’t realize. How do you manage to balance your medical work with your fictional work?
Melissa: Yeah, I do. I did something very different from most, which is that I. Well, there are a few things. I prioritize writing, so I felt a little guilty when I graduated, like I told my husband, I was like, oh, you know, now I can finally make some money. But I really want to write because, you know, I’ve been kind of starving to do this during my whole medical training and even our undergrad, right, because you’re just working so hard to get into medical school and beyond. And he was like, “Do it.”
My husband is a man of very few words, but he always encouraged me to write or just he’s just been like, why not? Like he’s not somebody who will like give speeches or anything, but he’s just like, I don’t see a problem. So I’m like, OK, so my parents really thought that was strange. And like, I’m sure my classmates and stuff would not understand why I would do this, you know, financially and stuff. It just it makes no sense. But I just I, you know, in the end, I told people I’m just like other people can run an emergency room, but only I can write my stories.
Melissa: And in the end, you die and you have to be happy with whatever you did.
Melissa: I just like I got to prioritize my writing.
Debbi: I know the feeling. And I don’t know if you’re familiar with this book at all. Range. This is a great book. I’m recommending it to the entire world.
Melissa: OK, what’s it about?
Debbi: It’s about how generalists triumph in a specialized world. I think you might like it.
Melissa: I would totally be into that.
Debbi: Yeah, you would be into that. It totally resonated with me. I went to law school and then decided to be a writer. So it’s like I trained as a writer. I was a journalism major, but then didn’t end up going into it. But then I did go into journalism, but that was later.
Melissa: It’s obviously, you know, you love words. You love thinking deeply about issues. You know, these things go together. Like in our world, we don’t think of them. But actually, you know, journalism and law. Yeah. Why not? It’s very verbal, intelligent.
Debbi: Exactly. And and also it helps that I have a supportive spouse as well. He was very much like, you should be writing.
Debbi: Isn’t that nice when it works out that way?
Melissa: Yes. Actually, you know, I used to be part of this blog called Mothers in Medicine, and one of them, her ground rock recommendation was marry well.
Melissa: Because what you choose makes such a fundamental difference. And, you know, I have heard repeatedly that the number one financial determinant for you as a woman is not your education.
It’s not how hard you work. It is your partner. So even now in 2025, you have to be very, very mindful. Like a lot of time, your partner will drag you down. You know, you’ll end up with a bazillion kids or if you’re career minded, you’ll have to pay alimony or palimony. Like just it can be a real millstone. You have to be smart about it.
Debbi: Exactly. These are important choices. Think about it before you do it.
What advice would you give to anyone who’s interested in having a writing career? Apart from choosing your spouse or partner well.
Melissa: So, that’s one. I always say read, read, read, write, write, write, because there are a lot of people are attracted to writing, but they’re not actually interested in reading books. And that doesn’t work. Like you have to love stories and words in this medium, like it’s not the same as TV.
You know, you need to love books. If you love TV, then you could do TV, which is also writing. But choose your medium and understand like. There’s a lot of frustration involved. Like I try to explain to people. It’s not like math where one plus one equals two.
[Y]ou need to love books. If you love TV, then you could do TV, which is also writing. But choose your medium and understand like. There’s a lot of frustration involved. Like I try to explain to people. It’s not like math where one plus one equals two.
So if you put this amount of energy into writing, then you will achieve this much or you will sell this many books. There’s a lot of randomness and luck and, like, popularity contests going on with the literary world and it’s such a balance to just, to be confident in yourself and what you want to do and also be able to handle capitalism, frankly.
Debbi: Yes, unfortunately, but there you have it.
Melissa: Yeah. So long term, like that’s what it’s like.
But I’m just fascinated by artistic people, like creative people in general. And I’ve also like done some acting and performance and stuff, too. And one analogy that stuck with me was, you know, because, you know, it’s so hard to act like, you know, you often end up just giving it away for free, for example.
And one person said, well, you know, it’s like riding a bus, you know, like you get on the bus and it’s really crowded and you have to shove your way on and you’re just like, why am I doing this? And it’s so stressful. But you keep riding the bus and eventually there’s a place for you to sit.
And I’ve been struggling with that, like. Feeling like that, honestly, and feeling confident and faith and and keep going and everything like that, but it is like that, like you have to keep going. Oh, actually, can I share an analogy? I was just thinking about this.
Melissa: So Jennifer Crusie, you may know her. She wrote romance and she writes romantic suspense with often with Bob Mayer. And she talked about an experiment where they had rats with islands. So it sounds horrible.
But what they did was they took rats and they put them into, say, a basin and the rat had to paddle around. There was no, they couldn’t get up on the sides. It was too hard for them. So they divided the rats. Some of them, they would just have to paddle around until the timer went off and they would take them up. And, you know, no rats actually drowned or anything like that.
Or if they paddled around long enough, the second group, there was actually some sort of island where they could rest their little paws and breathe. And then they took all the rats and then they put them in the base in a second time. And they just measured how long they would swim. And the rats who had islands in the past, even though there were no islands now, kept swimming for much longer. And she was like, you need to be a rat with an island.
Now this now this makes me think about privilege, right? Because if you have been someone who’s raised with, you know, not a lot of money, you know, you actually physically cannot afford to just keep paddling around and be like, oh, well, if I write one more book, one more book, one more book, it’s going to be OK. For sure, that’s true.
But if you can keep the faith and keep going and write your book, even if you have to do it on the side and keep your day job and, you know, keep changing your baby and everything that you need to do at the same time, then eventually, I hope you will find a spot for yourself. You’ll create some sort of niche and find some group of people who are like, yes, I love your work. I love your stories. You are one of my people. And that’s what I’m hoping for, for all of us.
Debbi: I think those things are possible if you stick with it. You just have to persevere and believe in yourself. And look for your people, like you said, look for the people who appreciate what you’re doing.
Debbi: So on that note, I’ll just ask, is there anything else you’d like to say before we finish up?
Melissa: I guess I just want to say thanks, you know, like, because you’re one of the people who keeps us going, right?
Debbi: Well, thank you. I really appreciate that, because, boy, I know the feeling is sometimes you just need somebody out there who believes and is ready to get behind you and say, pay attention to this person.
Melissa: Yes, absolutely. And so and thank you for adding your book to the gift basket for the giveaway.
Debbi: My pleasure. I’m glad I was able to do that. Yes, we’re doing a joint giveaway.
I’m throwing in a copy of Damaged Goods, my first Erica Jensen mystery with the gift basket that Melissa is offering. So be sure and check out that giveaway. The details are on my website under the post about the giveaway.
And if you enjoyed the episode, please leave a review. They help us. Also check out the perks we offer to various supporters on Patreon. So I’ve got that going.
And on that note, I’ll just say that our next guest will be Greg Hurwitz. And I want to thank you again, Melissa, for being with us today. Take care and happy reading!
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