The Dad Bod

So my 20 year college reunion was a couple months ago.  I was on the fence about going until the last minute, but I'm so glad I did because I ended up reconnecting with my friend, fellow dad, and today's guest, John.  Even though John and I are the same age, I appreciate the wisdom he has to offer as a dad who, with three kids ages 15, 13, and 11, is several big stages ahead of me in the parenting journey.  

John and I had an amazing conversation that was full of heart and humor. His story has many parts to it: immigrant kid; only child of a single mom; a man changed through faith; a career switcher; and a swimmer-turned-coach, just to name a few.  

Now, to all of the loyal Dad Bod listeners out there, you might have noticed that one of the things that I tend to do when something's touched my heart, like really touched me deeply is I reach into my bag, dig around, dig around some more, and I pull out a nice, shiny metaphor.  So here goes.  

All of these parts of John's story are like the facets of a diamond: solid panes of polished rock serving as reflective windows onto one another's surprising angles, components of a cohesive geometry formed through pressure and craftsmanship and thereby embodying the complex, hidden drama of modern fatherhood.  This episode is the longest one to date, but I assure you that if you like what we're doing with the Dad Bod, it'll be worth your time.

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The eldest of 4, TJ grew up in Western PA and currently lives in London with his wife, their 5-year old son, and 3-year old daughter.  Professionally, he works in finance as a trader, and it's through his career that he crossed paths and became good friends with Andrew who our longtime listeners know as Andrew, Dim Sum Dad.

I'm very excited to be sharing this conversation with you.  Even though it was our first time meeting (on an audio-only Zoom call at that), I could absolutely feel what Andrew was referencing in the Dim Sum Dad interview when he said of TJ, "This guy's EQ is off the charts, both in terms of self-awareness and how to interact with people, and one of the things he spoke about was his parents expectations of him to take responsibility at an early age."  Andrew clearly looks up to TJ, and I suspect that many other people do as well.  

In our conversation, TJ - in his very, very humble manner - discusses the principles that he lives by, which can all be seen as extending from that spirit of self awareness and personal responsibility that Andrew identified in him.  These principles - sharpening the ax, sphere of influence, and bonding through adversity, to name a few - were imprinted on TJ through important seasons and people from his life, including his wrestling career, his dad's constant presence, his mom's unshakable strength, and his parents' collaboration in raising TJ and his three siblings.

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My personal top 5 last minute free Father's Day gifts, perfect for any dad in your life.

Happy Father's Day to all the dads out there!

Visit thedadbodpod.com or email me any time at [email protected]!

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“Favorite comfort food?” I asked Andrew during the warm up to our interview. “Dim sum,” he said, noting some classic dishes as well as a modern innovation from Toronto, kalbi short ribs with maggi sauce. 

When he said it, I thought it was simply a nice answer to one of several warm-up questions that I ask guests before we get into the actual interview. But after struggling to come up with a good title (Canada Dad? CanaDad?) my mind wandered back to “dim sum” as his favorite comfort food.  What is a comfort food anyway? Something tasty and indulgent, true, but the best comfort food also carries deep personal meaning, reminding you of when you were little and other important moments in life, as well as the people you love and who loved you through food. 

I listened again to Andrew answering the question of favorite comfort food. When he says “dim sum," he says it with a question mark at the end - dim sum? - and I understand why.

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I met Charlie through Carlton, Daddy’s Boy Dad, which makes Charlie the first referred guest of The Dad Bod!

Carlton gave me Charlie’s basic bio - devoted husband and father of 3 kids, two girls, ages 22 and 12, and a son age 19; professionally, he’s a branch manager at a commercial financial institution - as well as details he knows as a close friend of Charlie’s - the burdens and stresses of his dad’s declining health and the energy and ambition he’s channeling into small business side hustles. 

Carlton also shared this by text: “Charlie is a great man. He supported me when my mother passed away, canceling his morning meetings to attend the celebration of life for my mother. He is a mirror of a good friend.” With the text, he included a photo of Charlie in a black suit, head bowed, next to the open casket of Carlton’s mother. 

A few weeks before we would have the actual interview, I jumped on the phone with Charlie to answer some questions that he had about the interview process. “How real do you want me to be?” he asked. It was his first question and it told me a lot about Charlie and what our conversation would be like.  As you’ll hear, Charlie is a great story teller. Listening to him, you can feel the powerful, unifying narrative that courses through the stories of his life as a son, a man, and, of course, as a dad.

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Episode cover art: Charlie and his son, Benny, on a fishing trip

We're 4 dads into season 1 of The Dad Bod! Brian, Coach Girl Dad. Jeremy, Ph.D-as-in-Dad. Andrew, Dim Sum Dad. Carlton, Daddys' Boy Dad. Sitting down with these guys to go deep into the hidden drama of fatherhood has been a very rewarding experience. And so, I want to give back some of what I've personally reaped from this experience by starting a series of reflection episodes to go with the interviews, where I share my own reflections on each of the dads that are interviewed for the Dad Bod, beginning with Brian and Jeremy.

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Carlton and I became friends while Carlton was doing his job delivering the mail in my neighborhood - or maybe I should say that we became friends while I was living in his neighborhood, because even though he's Brooklyn born and raised, he's been operating from the Planetarium Post Office since before I ever even set foot in New York. Now, we New Yorkers have a reputation for being unfriendly. That's fair to a degree, but I think it's more accurate and descriptive to say that our MO is to focus on our day-to-day business and to let others do the same. At the same time, because we live in close quarters to one another, some of the most familiar faces in our lives often belong to strangers that you walk past or ride the subway with on a routine basis. The vast majority of the time, a familiar stranger remains a stranger; rarely do they cross over to become an acquaintance; and rarer still do they cross all the way over to become a friend.  But that's what happened with Carlton and me. From our random conversations, it was obvious to me that he is passionate about fatherhood and mentorship, so even though we didn't know each other well, I had this feeling that it would be really great to have him as a guest on The Dad Bod. He graciously accepted my request to sit with me for an interview and thus we have today's episode.  

For the interview, I took the 2 train to the end of the line, near Carlton's neck of the woods in Brooklyn. From there, he drove us another 10 minutes or so to the Christian Cultural Center a.k.a. "CCC." On this particular Wednesday morning, CCC was bustling with activity for a FDNY graduation ceremony. As we walked through the building, Carlton exchanged hugs, handshakes, and banter with just about everybody and introduced me to everyone. The warmth and strength of Carlton's community was tangible.  I could feel why he credits CCC with changing his life and as you listen to Carlton speak, he does indeed sound like a person who is living a changed life; a person who has searched and wandered, experienced adversity and trauma, mourned and processed his trauma on his own and in community, has done the work to become something new, and is now sharing all of that wisdom, perspective, and presence back with others. I'm very grateful and excited to be sharing this conversation with you, as well as a little something different and new that I put at the very end of the episode.

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Episode cover art: photo of Carlton (center), Charlie, Good. Bad. Ugly. Dad (left), and me.

Not only is dim sum Andrew's favorite comfort food, it is also a great metaphor for his family story: a multigenerational family meal that gained full citizenship at the expansive culinary tables of Canada and the United states, and where values, lessons, and customs are passed with as much sincerity and fervor as the dishes themselves.

Andrew and I have been friends for about as long as we've both been dads in part because our daughters were born around the same time and have become better and better friends themselves over the years. I'm so glad that Andrew and I were able to sit down for this extended conversation because Andrew is someone I see on a pretty regular basis, but the circumstances always make it hard to go deep on the things that are going on in life and that are on our minds.  As you'll hear, Andrew has some very thoughtful perspectives and visions to share on a wide range of topics that he's passionate about including raising Asian American kids, his vision for leadership being taught in the future as a fundamental skill, and of course, what's going on with his dad bod.  But before we get to hear Andrew discuss those topics, we'll start with Andrew introducing himself and reflecting on his childhood, his parents, and his own dad in particular.  As I listened back on my conversation with Andrew, I came away with a subtle yet powerful feeling of connection that extends from his parents - their personal histories and how they raised Andrew and his sister - to how Andrew approaches being a dad today.

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Jeremy and I became friends through our kids. Even though we live just a few blocks apart, our first conversation was actually over Facetime, back in February of 2020 as we were about to go into lockdown here in New York.  I've always appreciated Jeremy's perspective on things because he speaks thoughtfully and in a way that reflects his wide range of life experiences.  West coast kid.  East coast grown up.  Full-time stay at home dad.  Passionate teacher.  Renaissance learner.  Freelance musician.  We touched on all of those in our wide-ranging conversation, so to borrow from the granddaddy of all podcasts, This American Life, we're gonna tell Jeremy's story in 4 acts: 

Act 1: Mom and Dad, I'm moving. At 27 years of age, Jeremy tells his parents that he's moving to NYC. Jeremy recalls their surprising reaction.

Act 2: Balancing the equation. What does a full time stay at home dad do in the middle of a pandemic? Pursue a graduate degree in math, of course. In this act, Jeremy shares how he's balancing this new variable in the equation of life as a dad.

Act 3: Music is the model. Jeremy first started playing the piano when he was 5, worked as a freelance pianist and moved to NYC for music in his 20s, but says that he only learned to truly play the piano when he was almost 40 years old. This act unpacks the key events and incredible wisdom from Jeremy's journey as a pianist. I have to say that hearing Jeremy's story has me rethinking the way I'm approaching many areas in my life, so I hope you stick around for this act.

Act 4: In the trenches, drinking lots of beer. In this brief final act, Jeremy fulfills his sacred responsibility of referring another dad to be a future guest on the Dad Bod.

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Here. We. GO! I am very excited to introduce the first ever guest of The Dad Bod, my childhood best friend, Brian.

In our conversation, Brian shares some really great insights from his life as a girl dad, especially from his experience coaching his two girls' basketball teams. On this topic, I really appreciate how open and honest Brian was in evaluating his own performance as a coach.  Although he's talking about coaching his daughter, what Brian shares is very relatable to the experience of parenting in general.

We also get into the topic of money and the wisdom and perspective that Brian is trying to pass on to his daughters, as well as Brian's reflections on his own dad's parenting.

Brian also shares some practical notes and perspective about how he maintains his dad bod and how he's still playing basketball in his 40s. As you'll hear, Brian's still getting LOTS of buckets, so I try to stir up some controversy to see if he thinks he should be the league MVP.

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