The Dad Bod

Happy Mother's Day to all the moms out there! The Dad Bod is all about sharing stories of what it means to be a dad today, but we actually captured one mom's story back in season 1. It was during my interview with my fellow dad Edwin. Throughout our conversation, he kept pointing back to his wife, Pat. At one point, I said to himx, “You’ve come a long way in life from your childhood to where you are now. What are the best decisions you’ve made? When did you start to find some stability in life?” He answered, “When I married Pat. She does everything, for our kids, for her parents, for my mom. I wouldn’t be where I am without her. Our kids wouldn’t be where they are without her. She’s the glue that holds us all together.”

Months after our conversation, I reflected on Edwin and Pat's story in an essay on The Dad Bod substack simply titled, "Fire," because of the way fire was a defining word, element, and force in their lives as individuals, as a couple, and as parents.

So in honor of Mother's Day, I am sharing Pat's story, a specially-wrapped gift for the occasion. I'm grateful to be sharing this conversation with you: Pat, Fire of Mom.

My friendship with Abe began 17 years ago when he was a pastor at my church and my wife and I asked if he would officiate our wedding. After saying "I do" to our proposal, Abe ministered to us in the months before our wedding day by leading us through coursework and conversations designed to prepare us for marriage from the perspective of our faith. Truth be told, I can't recall a single word that Abe said during our wedding ceremony, but I frequently look back at the time that he spent with us - yes, for some specific pearls of wisdom, but most of all for Abe's presence as an honest-to-goodness man a few years and a couple stages ahead of me who made me feel that, yes, the convictions that you swear by are worth keeping.

Even though Abe and I have had mostly random, chance encounters over the years, I still think of him in that way. My kids are in grade school; he has two kids in college, one in high school, and one in middle school. So when we sat down, I had three pages of questions designed to check my notes on life against his. But I also had wisdom from experience (and advice from Tony Reali) that it's important to let the conversation take you to places that weren't part of your plan. I think it worked out quite well. I'm truly grateful to be sharing this conversation with you: Abe, Joy of Dad.

Andrew is a children's book author whose latest book, "The Colors of My Sky," is a touching story with a timely message on diversity and kindness. The story behind the story is that before becoming a children's book author, Andrew was a stand-up comic for 25 years, as well as a champion bodybuilder. Photos from his website, andrewginsubrg.com, show Andrew on stage as a headliner at Caroline's; Andrew on stage signing books at Barnes & Noble; Andrew on stage at Saturday Night Live; and most eye-popping of all, Andrew on stage smiling and flexing in a thong. I was impressed but also surprised - Andrew barely gestured at these accomplishments in his email to me. The photos, it seemed, were of scenes from a past life. What does it take, I wondered, to turn a stand-up comic into a children's book author? And for that matter, what makes any of us decide that it's time to step off one stage and onto the next?

Check out Andrew's children's books, The Colors of My Sky and Critter Caravan as well as his fitness book, Pumping Irony: How to Build Muscle, Lose Weight, and Have the Last Laugh.

*UPDATE* shortly after our interview, Andrew added JFK Jr. Look Alike contest winner to his many accomplishments! Congrats, Andrew! A big win for all of us dads and a reminder that WE STILL GOT IT, BABY.

I met David last November at the same dad's night out where I met Andrew, Creativity of Dad. Sitting across from David that evening, I got to know him through the dramatic glow, smoke, and aroma of all-you-can-eat Korean BBQ. Sharp and witty while also deeply contemplative; the son of a Jewish mom yet bearing the surname Rivera; a software developer by profession and a practitioner of Muay Thai and BJJ - only in New York, baby. But was it just the magic of dad’s night and new friendship that brought out the most gregarious and introspective sides of us? Or would the same David and Shawn who bonded over BBQ show up and dive even deeper over a simple cup of coffee? The answer is pretty clear to me, but I’ll let you decide for yourself.

Logan is known by many for his work on Scenic Fights, a YouTube channel where he and his fellow co-hosts apply their martial arts expertise to separate what’s truly real from the pure Hollywood in movie fight scenes. Scenic Fights recently reached one million subscribers - a milestone achieved by fewer than 0.1% of YouTube channels - on the strength of videos like Logan's analysis of John Wick's knife skills which, at 2.7 million views, is Scenic Fights' most-watched video. But when I ask Logan about Scenic Fights, it serves as a mere segue to the biggest fight scene of his life when, shortly after becoming a dad a decade ago, Logan found himself surrounded by his wife's battle with brain cancer, his father's decline, and his cousin's failed suicide attempt. If a happy life consists of health, wealth, and relationships, these events decimated all three for Logan and literally brought him to his knees.

Fast forward to today, Logan is newly married to his wife, Sara, and his main focus in life is being a dad to his now 10 year-old son. His number one advice when it comes to fighting is do everything you can to avoid the fight. He gets off his scooter at intersections to look both ways. He's a self-described "funcle" to Sara's son, and his own son just joined a soccer league so that makes Logan a soccer dad. 

This splitscreen of Logan's life - today's peace next to yesterday's grief - brings to mind one of the many sayings that Logan uses to guide his life and prepare his son for his own: "Here's the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid."

I met Andrew a couple months ago, when I was invited by a mutual friend to join their quarterly dad outing. I had a great time that night. It started with virtual reality gaming, where the six of us middle aged dads worked as a team to save the world from zombies; followed by all-you-can-eat Korean BBQ, where we turned back the clock and ate like we were 25 again. But the best thing about the night was the friendship. I was meeting three of the 5 other guys for the first time, and they treated me like I had known them for decades. And so, I am trying to get as many of them on the show that I can, to have them help me tell the story of what it means to be a dad today, because I want to see if I can capture for you a bit of what I felt that night: a group of guys, all appreciative of their roles in life as dads, men, husbands, sons, boys, friends, and, above all, works-in-progress. Specific to Andrew, I learned over multiple helpings of meat that, in addition to being dads, he and I are both IT professionals by day and creative side hustlers by night. Perhaps by learning more about his journey, I can understand my own a little better as well.

Check out some of Andrew's work:

⁠Omnipotent Rex⁠ - his published comic book and the source for this episode's cover art

Commuter Cast - the sketch comedy referenced during the interview

There's a good chance that you already know Tony from his work on Around the Horn, the primetime ESPN sports debate show that aired its final episode in May and that Tony hosted for nearly 5,000 episodes, a track record longer than Oprah's that began in 2004 when Tony, then just 25 years old, was called up as a temporary fill-in host the day after Super Bowl XXXVIII, which is remembered more for its halftime wardrobe malfunction than its game winning field goal. Rewatching this episode, I'm amazed by how natural Tony is at facilitating the debate between four seasoned sports journalists, bringing out their voices while still holding them accountable. It's the first day on the job that he's been dreaming of for 20 years and that he'll hold for 20 more. 

Fast forward to today, Tony is raising three young kids with his wife, Samiya, while also navigating a major midlife career transition. As he settles into a spot on my living room sofa, Tony reflects on the waters of the East River, visible from his home in Brooklyn, and the waters of the Hudson River visible from my home on the Upper West Side. These rivers, as my ten year old recently taught me, are both estuaries, bodies of water where the river's freshwater current meets the ocean's saltwater tide to create a surreal environment where the steady state is constant change - much like life itself. It's a poetic prelude to our conversation, which covers Tony's reflections on his career and the vision for what he's building; perspective and advice from his experiences with anxiety and grief; life-changing discovery of self-love; present moment where being intentional and celebrating the surreal go hand-in-hand; and what youth sports teaches our kids.

I'm grateful to be sharing this conversation with you. Special thanks to Andrew, Dim Sum Dad, for introducing me to Tony.

Neighbors don't necessarily become friends, but Alex and I have gotten to know each other through family hangouts and working together on the board of our co-op building. I think of myself as someone who has a lot of energy, but from what I could tell, Alex is at another level. In addition to being a dad and working as a software engineering manager at Meta, Alex is the unofficial engineer-in-residence for our building; serves and was recently elected as Chair for Community Board 7, the community board that represents our portion of the Upper West Side; volunteers as a NYPD Auxiliary Police officer; and owns several side hustle businesses, including a direct to consumer shoe company, Skippies. And so I've wanted to have him on the show for a long time to ask him essentially one question: how do you do it? Where do you get the energy, motivation, mindset to do all the things that you're doing?

And then more recently, Alex went through surgery for cancer. I was worried about him and his family, and then a week or so later, he was back, almost like nothing happened. Observing this from the great distance of the apartment next door, this gave me one more question to ask him: how are you really doing?

This episode is my reflection on Edwin, Two for One Dad. The story of Edwin and his wife, Pat, moved me deeply. I hope the excerpt below leads entices you to listen to the whole reflection.

"I’m imagining now a twenty-something Edwin arriving at work at 3 AM on a cold, dark winter morning to tend the invisible fire that warms the school. With a shovel in his hands and flames flickering in his eyes, Edwin’s thinking about the weekend: a much-needed haircut on Saturday so that he’s presentable on Sunday for a first date with Pat, whom he’s been getting to know through late night phone conversations over the past couple months. Although Edwin’s a new fireman, he’s well acquainted with the fires of life: raised by a tough-love single mom in Williamsburg, Brooklyn at a time when gangs, drugs, and violence were a daily reality, Edwin lit a fire in his heart to get out after seeing too many friends’ lives altered or cut short entirely. 

If every stage in Edwin's life can be described by fire - be it the fire of tough circumstances in his youth, the fire of responsibility in early adulthood, or the fire of romance in dating Pat - then for this present moment, the fire in Edwin's life is Pat herself."

Listen to my interview with Edwin from Season 1.

At 16 years of age and in the middle of high school, Royce independently decides that he needs to leave St. Thomas for the mainland, landing in, of all places, Attleboro, a city in Massachusetts that is a suburb of Providence, RI. It doesn't make sense. "Why did you leave St. Thomas?" I ask.

Royce shakes his head. "I can't explain it," he says. "I was at school one day and time literally stood still." Terms like "breakthrough" or "paradigm shift" come to my tech-oriented mind. But then Royce reaches for something else entirely, something more human and divine. "It was an epiphany," he says. The first of three epiphanies, in fact, in Royce's life, along with many other unexpected twists.