I was introduced to Tom by Thomas from Season 1. I dubbed Thomas, "Chosen Dad," because one of the key things that he shared with me was the concept of chosen family, the people who aren't biologically family to you but become your family through the power and constancy of their presence in your life. Tom and Thomas became chosen family to one another through Young Life, a Christian ministry for teens where Tom, in his capacity as Young Life staff, mentored Thomas. If you're confused at this point about which one's Tom and which one's Thomas, that's totally understandable. In fact, maybe that's the point, because their stories are like the shards of a once-broken object, their jagged, imperfect edges coming together to redeem the wasn't-supposed-to-be-this-way wounds of childhood into a meant-to-be miracle. In our conversation, Tom shares great wisdom and insight on two demographics that are especially pertinent to us dads: teenagers and middle-aged men, the two constituencies that he's ministered to in his 20-plus year career as a pastor. He also shares candidly about his pain from childhood, the healing he's received, and the growing up he still has left to do.

One more thing to introduce this interview: I looked up the origin of the name Thomas and its shortened form, Tom, and it turns out that it's an Aramaic name that means "twin," so you might say that this episode pretty much named itself: Tom, Chosen Dad.

Enjoy the transcript as well, specially prepared for clarity and impact.

My connection with Mario goes back to January, when I was part of the audience to his magic show, Mario the Maker Magician (@mariothemagician), for my niece's 6th birthday. As the lights dimmed in the theatre, I was expecting just a large scale version of magic shows that I'd seen at kids birthday parties, but looking back now, there were signs that this show would be different. The first was the location, the SOHO Playhouse, a downtown theatre proud of its rich place in history and as a launchpad of dreams for independent, off-broadway performers. The second was the credits and mentions in the program - Mario's been on Sesame Street, the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, and on tour opening for David Blaine who calls him "the best kids magician in the world." Within the first four minutes, Mario had the kids laughing and captivated, but what makes the show different is that by the last four minutes, he had all of us grownups clapping and choking back tears as he harmonized his magic with the heartbeat of his show, a mantra that goes like this: do what you love; use what you've got; never give up; and have fun. Wow. My wife, sister, brother-in-law and I all looked each other as if to say, did you just cry in a kids magic show, or was it just me?

Please check out the episode page, which for the first time ever, includes a transcript of the conversation, edited for clarity and formatted to convey an appreciation for what it means to be a dad today.

John and I met for the interview at his office, the type of space that works very hard just to keep up and yet remain ultimately indistinguishable from the other offices in midtown Manhattan. In this office, I could imagine John and I being introduced for professional reasons - we both work in finance - but instead, we were meeting as two dads to talk about fatherhood.  In a nod to the professional environment around us, the start of our conversation felt like water cooler small talk, and to be honest, I was worried that John and I would be held back by our shared professional customs and mannerisms that insist on keeping things, well, professional rather than personal.  Thankfully, to borrow from St. Augustine, even though we were physically meeting in a building prototypical to the City of Man, by the end of our conversation, we would find ourselves seated at a communal table in the City of God.

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If the vision for the Dad Bod is to capture the hidden drama of what it means to be a dad today, then for me personally, this conversation really nails it because so much of what Micah has to say about the feelings of being a dad really resonates with me. Feelings like exhaustion, restlessness, and guilt, but also gratitude, astonishment, and of course, love. Sitting across from Micah felt like listening to someone speak on behalf of my own personal cohort of dads: boys who grew up in suburban America in the 80s and 90s where unsupervised time outdoors and at friends’ homes drinking soda from a can and water from a hose was the norm. Rather than repeat that upbringing for our kids, we (and I include myself) have taken to helicopter parenting. How did that happen?

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Talking with Mitch was like getting a chance to look at my life from a healthy, helpful distance by being airlifted to his higher perch in life as a dad of two dads, a grandfather of six, and a husband of 45 years.  This episode is from a second conversation that I had with Mitch where he identified and shared his perspective on the major moments of transition in a child's life that we as dads should be particularly mindful of - yes, for the benefit of our children, but just as much for our benefit as well, because as he points out repeatedly, these are moments of transition for us, too.

Like many of you, I'm in my 40s and at this very, very full stage in life.  In overwhelming moments, my wife and I often ask each other, what do you think your older self might say to you? The goal of this thought exercise is to access a clear-eyed perspective by looking at oneself from afar via a different moment in time, even if just in one's mind.  Well, talking to Mitch was like a super-charged version of that. At 73 years of age with two sons, six grandkids, 45 years of marriage, and two incredible professional careers-worth of experience to draw from, speaking with Mitch felt like being airlifted to his perch in life and looking down at my own.

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In New York City, the person charged with the care, maintenance, and repair of a building is known as a "super." Short for superintendent, it also describes the quality of Alen's work and the superhuman way he seems to be in multiple places at once in the neighborhood, helping dozens of people get things done in their homes every single day.  That's exactly what he was doing in my apartment a few weeks ago.  We caught up while he installed a new light switch for me, and I briefly mentioned this personal project I've been working on, a podcast about what it means to be a dad today, and he immediately asked, "so when are you gonna have me on the show?"  Alen is a get-it-done kinda guy, so the two of us went ahead and got it done and thus, we have this episode.

We met for the interview in the natural habitat of Alen's profession: the basement of my building, specifically behind the door marked, "DANGER: ELECTRIC ROOM."  In our conversation, Alan covers a lot of topics including his transformative early years in America; the differences between his three kids' upbringing and his own upbringing in a village in Montenegro; his many entrepreneurial pursuits, and what it really means to be a super.

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A few years ago, Doug moved with his family from New York City to Taiwan to live a life that gives them the freedom to travel frequently, enjoy outdoorsy activities, and raise their kids as native Chinese speakers in an immersive Taiwanese cultural environment, all while still operating by the US-based e-commerce business that Doug started once upon a time as a side hustle to his data analytics career in NYC.  As you're about to hear, Doug and I had a great conversation about his life in Taiwan, but more importantly, we talk about the years-long journey to find the answer to a universal, burning question that led him there.

Big thanks to Andrew, Dim Sum Dad for introducing me to Doug, after also introducing me to TJ, Seven Habits of Dad.

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John's wife says that he "looks like someone who used to work out" and John basically concurs, describing his dad bod shape as "oval." So if the shape of dad transformation is the oval, what is the shape of dad redemption?

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I met Andres more than 15 years ago, when he was dating my wife's childhood best friend and with whom he just celebrated 14 years of marriage.  At 60 years old, he is ahead of me in life and in parenting, and so even though we've never lived in the same city and our actual contact with each other is infrequent, I've looked up to him for a long time.  As you'll hear, Andres has a lot of deeply rooted wisdom gained through his experiences as a son, a chaplain, a pastor, a coach, and of course, as a dad.

One of my favorite memories with Andres, which I'm not sure if he even remembers, is when he and his wife visited us when my wife was pregnant with our first.  On that visit, he specifically sought out one on one time with me to both pray for me and smoke a cigar with me as I was about to enter this amazing journey of fatherhood.  I'm not sure which came first, the praying or the cigars, but that moment is a little snapshot of how I see Andres: a person with whom every interaction teaches me more about God and life.

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