The Difficulty: Creativity, Meaning & the Hard Work of a Life

Dr. Jerome Wagner is a clinical psychologist, psychotherapist, supervisor, consultant in private practice, and emeritus faculty member in the Department of Psychology and Institute of Pastoral Studies at Loyola University, Chicago.

On today's episode, Jerry helps us see that the true self is something that we already have and already are and maybe we don’t really have to go out and "find it," and for all the ways in which we’re different and unique and one of a kind, paradoxically, we’re also very much the same.

He is innovator of the statistically validated Wagner Enneagram Personality Style Scales (WEPPS). He has been researching and teaching the Enneagram since 1980 and began the Enneagram Spectrum Training and Certification Program in 1995.

Time Stamps:

4:12--Jerry Wagner's answer to what does Big Self mean to him begins with starting at the surface and working your way down

9:18--The ego is an exaggeration of who we are

16:09--There's a lot to the Enneagram, you can stay surface or go deep

25:23--Start with where you are, your pain point

36:30--The integrative approach to developing with the Enneagram, and the recent development of the subtypes

46:40--Let's not overthink all this, remember the K.I.S.S. method

Show Notes:

Enneagram Spectrum Method

9 Lenses on the World

More about Big Self School:

We still offer our flagship burnout coaching package. We also offer packages for those seeking clarity and reconnecting to their life purpose–and we do this work with individuals and couples. Reach out to us if you’d like to book a discovery call and learn more about our coaching packages.

Book a discovery call here

Want to learn more about the role stress plays in your life, and discover your blueprint for how to handle it based on your Enneagram type and subtype? 

Order a copy of Chad’s book Shock Point or order an ebook here.

Leave us a review and subscribe on Apple iTunes or Subscribe on Spotify

Find us at bigselfschool.com

Join us on

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit chadprevost.substack.com

Dr. Tasha Eurich is an organizational psychologist, researcher, and New York Times bestselling author. Recognized as the world’s top communication and organizational culture thinker, and #1 self-awareness coach, Tasha is Principal of The Eurich Group, where she uses science to help successful executives achieve dramatic personal and organizational change.

As a coach, consultant, and speaker, Tasha has worked directly with tens of thousands of leaders and spoken live to hundreds of thousands more, on every continent but Antarctica. She is the author of Bankable Leadership (which debuted at #8 on the New York Times bestseller list), and Insight (which famed Wharton professor Adam Grant calls one of the three books he recommends most often). Tasha’s TEDx talks have been viewed more than nine million times. She also contributes to Harvard Business Review, and her expertise has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Fox Business, the BBC, NPR, and more.

We are thrilled to have a chance to discuss some of her insights and ideas on the Big Self Show.

Time Stamps:

3:22--Tasha's answer to what the Big Self and the Little Self mean to her

5:09--A simple and clear definition of self-awareness

6:50--More people believe they are self-aware than really are

9:22--How Freud was wrong

13:50--What is the Dinner of Truth?

19:05--Why is what others think about us seem to be more important that what we think about ourselves?

22:45--What does Tasha think is a really effective way to really understand and get to authentically identify these values?

25:55--How do we break through and break down our (or others) defenses when it comes to self-awareness

28:30--What are the best questions Tasha ever asked herself that deepened her learning about who she is?

More about Tasha Eurich

Free 5-minute self-awareness quiz

https://www.tashaeurich.com/about

More about Big Self School

We still offer our flagship burnout coaching package. We also offer packages for those seeking clarity and reconnecting to their life purpose–and we do this work with individuals and couples. Reach out to us if you’d like to book a discovery call and learn more about our coaching packages.

Book a discovery call here

Want to learn more about the role stress plays in your life, and discover your blueprint for how to handle it based on your Enneagram type and subtype? 

Order a copy of Chad’s book Shock Point or order an ebook here.

Leave us a review and subscribe on Apple...

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit chadprevost.substack.com

Giving up is ego work. Giving up carries a different energy completely. It is fueled by a fear and a holding on. It produces tension and when we can no longer carry it, we feel the need to give up. Giving up is submitting to lower energy. It’s a feeling of self-abnegation, self-diminishment. 

Surrender is leveling up. Giving up is downshifting. 

We give up on ego work. We surrender to soul work. 

Surrender is a way of accepting the terms of life with a learner’s mind. There is acceptance. There is a renewed perspective, in which we can call something that involves suffering a gift even. Surrendering I think of as even accepting other difficult people in your life, people who have wronged you, who annoy you, who you plain dislike or feel you need to defend yourself from, and sending them love instead of defenses and reasons for your disdain.

Importantly, too, when we surrender, we stay open.

We still offer our flagship burnout coaching package. We also offer packages for those seeking clarity and reconnecting to their life purpose–and we do this work with individuals and couples. Reach out to us if you’d like to book a discovery call and learn more about our coaching packages.

Want to learn more about the role stress plays in your life, and discover your blueprint for how to handle it based on your Enneagram type and subtype? 

Time Stamps:

:46--Shelley was recently teaching on the archetypes around feminine energy

2:38--The acceptance that comes from being open

3:43--Surrendering is always a movement into spaciousness

6:41--Shelley shares her experience of being a sensitive kid growing up

10:37--Are giving up and surrendering mutually exclusive?

Show Notes:

Order a copy of Chad’s book Shock Point or order an ebook here.

Leave us a review and subscribe on Apple iTunes or Subscribe on Spotify

Find us at bigselfschool.com

Join us on LinkedIn

Sally Clarke is an author, speaker, researcher and burnout expert and Co-Director at Human Leaders. A former finance lawyer, she works with leaders and organizations around the globe to embed wellbeing at work so people and business thrive. Sally's latest book, ‘Relight Your Spark’ guides individuals on how to heal and evolve after burnout. Her book Relight Your Spark, is a practical guide to all things burnout, affordably priced, and also details her personal journey with burnout. Like so many of us, she bought into the belief that if you make it to a prestigious workplace and you just grind hard enough long enough you’ll somehow make it to the other side a fulfilled and joy-filled person. It’s amazing how often we hear the accounts of how this illusion doesn’t turn out the way we believe it will, but we continually and repeatedly keep living it out, almost as if we just don’t know what else or how else to live what we think of as a successful life.

Time Stamps:

4:13--Sally's answer to what Big Self means to her

10:00--How burnout is complex but it's not just about taking the fish out of the water for a little while and then putting the fish back in

14:25--Evaluating what "being successful" really means

18:33--The Four Steps of moving through burnout according to Sally's framework from her book

20:57--The myth of we have to do it ourselves

27:19--There is a lot we can do in spite of how burnout is actually continuing to grow right now

Show Notes:

We Are Human Leaders podcast

Relight Your Spark

Global State of Burnout Report 2023

We still offer our flagship burnout coaching package. We also offer packages for those seeking clarity and reconnecting to their life purpose–and we do this work with individuals and couples. Reach out to us if you’d like to book a discovery call and learn more about our coaching packages.

Want to learn more about the role stress plays in your life, and discover your blueprint for how to handle it based on your Enneagram type and subtype? 

Order a copy of Chad’s book Shock Point or order an ebook here.

Leave us a review and subscribe on Apple iTunes or Subscribe on Spotify

Find us at bigselfschool.com

Join us on

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit chadprevost.substack.com

There’s growing evidence that signals sent from our internal organs to the brain play a major role in regulating emotions and fending off anxiety and depression.

Interoception may be less well known than the “outward facing” senses such as sight, hearing, taste, touch and smell, but it has enormous consequences for your wellbeing. Scientists have shown that our sensitivity to interoceptive signals can determine our capacity to regulate our emotions, and our subsequent susceptibility to mental health problems such as anxiety and depression.

It is now one of the fastest moving areas in neuroscience and psychology, with academic conferences devoted to the subject and a wealth of new papers emerging every month. There is an exponential growth in interoceptive research. 

These findings include promising new ways for you to “tune in” to the body and alter your perception of its interoceptive signals – techniques that may help treat a host of mental health problems. It is only by listening to the heart, it seems, that we can take better care of the mind.

Time Stamps:

1:18--The growing research around Interoceptive signals

4:52--The senses we tend to focus on with body awareness

7:55--You will not be able to change, unless you can become aware of your inner experience

10:00--Shelley was in her emotions after our oldest son left and how her workout put her in a different awareness

12:07--Why physical workouts are so important

13:18--Why mindfulness is so important

Show Notes:

Order a copy of Chad’s book Shock Point or order an ebook here.

Leave us a review and subscribe on Apple iTunes or Subscribe on Spotify

Find us at bigselfschool.com

Join us on LinkedIn

We need to be open to a third force — another way of having an experience — so that we can defuse the psychic bomb of our personal history. 

This script is why we repeat dramas throughout our lives. When you introduce a third force — or a new way to do the script — you can finally step out of it. 

This is also why self-confrontation is critical to healing and growth. We cannot set up camp only in self-compassion. That’s only one path of the work. We have to create a tension to give us material to work with. 

So how do we do it? 

Time Stamps:

1:00--The idea of moving past repetitive conflicts

4:38--The three forces at work when moving into and through conflict

8:42--How Roy Kent got stuck in Ted Lasso

11:52--Three different ways we can listen

Show Notes:

Order a copy of Chad’s book Shock Point or order an ebook here.

Leave us a review and subscribe on Apple iTunes or Subscribe on Spotify

Find us at bigselfschool.com

Join us on LinkedIn

Today, we learn from Enneagram type Seven, Milton Stewart, and the inner and outer work he's doing. Milton is the founder of Kaizen Careers, Coaching and Consulting. He facilitates the Enneagram and is on a mission to help people feel seen.

Milton is one of the very few African-American male Enneagram teachers in the world. He hosts and produces the Do It For The Gram podcast, which teaches the Enneagram from a practical standpoint. He is also an International Enneagram Association Global Board Member.

Milton believes the Enneagram is more than just a personal tool but a map of how to truly honor the humanity of others. He uses the Enneagram in many ways but the most powerful way he uses it is in spaces of diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Time Stamps:

6:48--The Enneagram just hits the nail on the head when it comes to our patterns

8:50--Milton's work as a Seven with emotions

11:46--Chad connects with what Milton is saying about anger

14:17--How the Enneagram is growing in diversity but there is still plenty of work to do

23:46--Milton's offering of an Enneagram certification program

25:38--The "both and" of how Milton works with the Enneagram

Show Notes:

Save the date for World Enneagram date: May 27 at 11 AM ET

Register for World Enneagram Day here

We still offer our flagship burnout coaching package. We also offer packages for those seeking clarity and reconnecting to their life purpose–and we do this work with individuals and couples. Reach out to us if you’d like to book a discovery call and learn more about our coaching packages.

Want to learn more about the role stress plays in your life, and discover your blueprint for how to handle it based on your Enneagram type and subtype? 

Order a copy of Chad’s book Shock Point or order an ebook here.

Leave us a review and subscribe on Apple iTunes or Subscribe on Spotify

Find us at bigselfschool.com

Join us on LinkedIn

The concept of trust has been coming up a lot for us lately. Chad's been asked to do a training on it recently, especially when it comes to trying to build a team through the "storming" stage of development. And for Shelley, it's been a piece of the personal growth work she's been doing at this time in her own life.

Trust comes easier for some people than others. Some are naturally inclined to distrust, and some to trust.

We always encourage you to do your own growth around these ideas, but it's also important to observe the level of trust you engage with in your professional life. How much trust is there? How much trust do you give and receive?

How much do you trust us to cover this idea in under eight minutes?

Time Stamps:

:50: Where it all begins when it comes to trust

1:21: If this situation never changed whatever situation you're complaining about, if it never changed, what quality would you have to birth in order to have peace of mind?

5:15--What's something I need to be trusting today?

Show Notes:

We still offer our flagship burnout coaching package. We also offer packages for those seeking clarity and reconnecting to their life purpose–and we do this work with individuals and couples. Reach out to us if you’d like to book a discovery call and learn more about our coaching packages.

Want to learn more about the role stress plays in your life, and discover your blueprint for how to handle it based on your Enneagram type and subtype? 

Order a copy of Chad’s book Shock Point or order an ebook here.

Leave us a review and subscribe on Apple iTunes or Subscribe on Spotify

Find us at bigselfschool.com

Join us on LinkedIn

When Ginger first hopped into a five-day class on the Enneagram in the '90s, she accidentally enrolled in the advanced group. But she didn’t let jumping in over her head stop her curiosity. Before those five days were over she had a vision from a blimp that she had to do this. 

Her website The Enneagram in Business is an ever-expanding trove of information for personal and professional applications. She offers certification trainings in the Enneagram, a wide-ranging database of resources, and has links to her nine books that she’s been publishing on the Enneagram and business for nearly 20 years now.

She has plenty to share with us, but one of my biggest curiosities was how she uses it in professional and business contexts.

Times Stamps:

2:18--The Enneagram finds us

7:10--How Ginger began to think about taking the Enneagram to organizations

11:33--For Ginger, the Enneagram is about the whole person and everyone--including in the workplace--can grow from the insights it leads to, the only question is about whether or not people are willing to share in those contexts

18:03--Ginger has a panic attack when her first book comes out

23:46--The Enneagram can help you work through team issues much faster than without it

34:25--How Ginger and her team on the EIBN got nearly 800 respondents from around the world in 2022 for how the Enneagram has worked in organizations around the world

More about Ginger's work

EIBN: Enneagram in Business Network

Enneagram in Business Network on LinkedIn

The Enneagram in Business Global Survey 2022

Transform Your Team with the Enneagram: Build Trust, Decrease Stress, and Increase Productivity

Show Notes:

We offer our flagship burnout coaching package, and we also offer packages for those seeking clarity and reconnecting to their life purpose–and we do this work with individuals and couples. Reach out to us if you’d like to book a discovery call and learn more about our coaching packages.

Want to learn more about the role stress plays in your life, and discover your blueprint for how to handle it based on your Enneagram type and subtype? 

Order a copy of Chad’s book Shock Point or order an ebook here.

Leave us a review and subscribe on Apple iTunes or Subscribe on Spotify

Find us at

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit chadprevost.substack.com

A Harvard-trained physician, clinical cardiologist, and certified mindfulness meditation teacher with 20 years of clinical experience, Dr. Jonathan Fisher survived burnout and rediscovered his joy at work the hard way. He is now committed to ending workplace burnout and optimizing peak performance in healthcare and the corporate world. 

His mission is to empower leaders and teams to experience more joy, meaning, and connection in their lives, and to reach their full potential.

We have a terrific conversation centered around the body, what it means to hold in emotions and the toll it takes, as well as ways to center yourself and live a whole and integrated life.

Time Stamps:

2:37--The gift of burnout

7:30--Is the system broken? What's up with burnout, especially right now among clinicians?

13:12--Do we have reason for hope?

18:05--The idea that we don't completely know what's going on with all the stress going on in our bodies, but here's what we do know right now and how it works

26:33--Isolation is such a root cause of our collective and individual suffering, but what do we do about it?

31:32--Personal practices of Jonathan Fisher, who first says, 'Don't just do what I do, do what works for you'

34:04--Why Jonathan Fisher advises delving into positive psychology when it comes to deeply learning about ourselves, and he has an acronym from it: SPACE

39:22--How 360s can enhance awareness along the ideas that Dr. Fisher lays out with his SPACE acronym

41:37--From micro stresses to micro sancturaries

Show Notes:

Find Jonathan and learn about his summit at:

Happyheartmd

and

Endingphysicianburnout.com

For further reading:

The Surgeon General's recent warning

We offer our flagship burnout coaching package, and also offer packages for those seeking clarity and reconnecting to their life purpose–and we do this work with individuals and couples. Reach out to us if you’d like to book a discovery call and learn more about our coaching packages.

Want to learn more about the role stress plays in your life, and discover your blueprint for how to handle it based on your Enneagram type and subtype? 

Order a copy of Chad’s book Shock Point or order an ebook here.

Leave us a review and subscribe on Apple iTunes or

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit chadprevost.substack.com