Bewitched: Louisa Havers — The Oracle Was You All Along"

In this powerful episode of Bewitched, Robyn is joined by trusted colleague and spiritual guide Louisa Havers, one of the first people she reached out to after returning from her own 24-day misadventure with the spiritual teacher we call "Betty."

Louisa shares her deeply personal journey—from reverence to realization—and how her initial awe of a seemingly gifted mentor slowly unraveled into a web of spiritual manipulation, gaslighting, and trauma bonding. With wisdom, discernment, and grace, Louisa names the patterns and reclaims her power.

Together, we explore:

• Why intuitive “authority” can become dangerously distorted

• What trauma bonding can look like in spiritual mentorship

• The consequences of confusing charisma with credibility

• How Louisa made sense of what happened—and found her way back to herself

⚠️ Trigger Warning: This episode includes references to spiritual abuse, gaslighting, and manipulation. Please listen with care.

💡 Looking for the clinical lens on all this? Robyn and Dr. Barbara Kerr recorded a special crossover episode on Two Shrinks on the Farm where they dive deep into the psychological profile of spiritual manipulators. It’s a potent companion to this episode. Listen here → (link to be inserted)

📘 Robyn’s new ebook, Healing the Healers: 11 Things Every Spiritually Intelligent Leader Needs to Know About Guiding Clients After Spiritual Harm, is coming soon. Reserve your copy here → (link to be inserted)

Find us on IG: @robynmckayphd @ alyse_breathes @louisahavers

📲 If this conversation resonates, please share it and leave a review—it helps us keep spreading the message and breaking the spell, one story at a time.

🌀 Be sure to join us for our weekly debrief session — Monday at 10 a.m. PT on IG Live (@robynmckayphd). Follow along, bring your questions, and share the episode with someone who needs to hear it.

What happens when the shiny promise of spiritual business mentorship loses its sparkle?

In this episode of Bewitched, we sit down with Nicole Cherie Hesse—founder of Real Unicorns Don’t Wear Pants—to talk about what happens when a mentorship experience veers into something… less than magical. Nicole shares her personal story of disillusionment inside a spiritual business container and the process of reclaiming her direction on the other side.

We explore the difference between mentoring and manipulation, the red flags that are easy to ignore when you're under someone's spell, and how smart, intuitive women can find their way back to clarity and confidence.

This conversation is a reminder: just because something is spiritual doesn’t mean it’s sacred. And just because you were once under the spell doesn’t mean you can’t break it.

Follow Nicole on Instagram: @moneymakingunicorns
Follow Alyse on Instagram: @alyse_breathes
Follow Robyn on Instagram: @robynmckayphd

✨ Reserve your copy of Dr. Robyn McKay’s brand new ebook Healing the Healers — a guide for spiritually intelligent leaders who are here to restore, protect, and liberate human consciousness: https://robyn-mckay.myflodesk.com/healingthehealers

Bewitched: Breaking the Spell – After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong

Episode Summary

Welcome back to Bewitched, the podcast series where we illuminate spellbinding stories of spiritual awakenings, intuitive leaps, and when spiritual mentoring goes terribly wrong. I'm your co-host, Dr. Robyn McKay, joined by trauma and breathwork expert Elise Bein. In today’s compelling conversation, we sit down with Andrea Donnelly, who bravely shares her experience of a spiritual mentorship that turned toxic.

When Andrea first encountered her mentor—whom we’re calling Betty—she was drawn to her big-picture perspective and seemingly deep spiritual wisdom. But what started as an inspiring alliance soon spiraled into a manipulative power dynamic. From coercive retreats and erratic behavior to gaslighting, financial strain, and outright psychic interference, Andrea recounts the red flags she overlooked and how she ultimately freed herself from the entanglement.

We explore the shadow side of spiritual authority and how so-called enlightened leaders can weaponize their influence. If you’ve ever felt disoriented or even spiritually hijacked in a mentorship relationship, this episode is for you. Together, we shine a clear and compassionate light on manipulation in spiritual spaces, empowering you to reclaim your discernment and confidently chart your own path.

Key Takeaways:

• The Initial Draw: Andrea shares why she was captivated by Betty’s presence, messaging, and claims of spiritual intelligence.

• When the Good Outweighed the Bad – Until It Didn’t: The subtle ways manipulation and control crept into their dynamic.

• Gaslighting and Destabilization: How Betty leveraged power and isolation tactics to maintain control over Andrea and other clients.

• Financial and Emotional Toll: The high cost—both literal and figurative—of staying in a spiritually abusive mentorship.

• Breaking Free: Andrea’s powerful decision to step away, reclaim her energy, and rebuild in the aftermath.

• Energetic Interference & Siphoning: The role of psychic manipulation and energy extraction in toxic spiritual relationships.

• Healing After Spiritual Betrayal: Andrea’s journey of self-reclamation, the support she sought, and advice for others navigating similar situations.

Resources for Listeners:

• Join Robyn and Alyse every Monday at 10:00 AM Pacific for a weekly debrief on Instagram Live (@robynmckayphd and @alyse_breathes), where we dive deeper into each episode and answer your questions.

• If this episode resonates with you, please share Bewitched with your friends, colleagues, and fellow spiritually intelligent leaders. Your thoughtful reviews help us spread this vital message.

Final Thoughts:

Andrea’s story is a potent reminder that even in spiritual circles, manipulation and control can take hold. But by sharing these experiences, we illuminate the path forward for ourselves and others. You are not alone, and you have the power to reclaim your radiant discernment.

Now, it’s time once again to break the spell—let’s dive in.

If Part 1 left you with more questions than answers… buckle up, buttercup!

Today, I’m sharing the rest of my journey—what happened when my spiritual mentoring experience took a turn, and how I found my way back to clarity, confidence, and trust in myself.

If you’ve ever second-guessed your intuition, felt pulled into someone else’s agenda, or struggled to discern the difference between influence and truth—this episode is for you.

In this episode, I take you behind the scenes of the final retreat I attended with Betty—what was supposed to be a 10-day experience that turned into a 24-day unraveling.

From the unsettling dynamics of the retreat to the high control, paranoia, and mind games that followed, I share what it took to finally wake up, reclaim my power, and break the spell for good.

This isn’t just about one mentor or one retreat.

It’s about recognizing when a situation no longer serves you, sharpening your discernment, and reclaiming your own wisdom. Because while guidance can be valuable, your intuition always gets the final say.

Key Topics:
✨ The retreat experience that made me second-guess what I knew to be true.
✨ The fine line between deep spiritual work and losing connection with your own power.
✨ Influence vs. intuition—understanding the difference and why it matters.
✨ How I navigated the aftermath—and what healing has looked like since.

Reflection Questions:
💭 Where have you overridden your own gut instincts for the sake of belonging?
💭 When have you felt the pressure to doubt your own wisdom?
💭 How can you strengthen your discernment so that it never happens again?

Join the Conversation!
So many of you have reached out saying “I’ve been there, too.” Maybe not in the exact same way, but in situations where you felt the pull between your own wisdom and someone else’s influence.

📲 Join Alyse and me LIVE on Instagram.
📅 Monday, March 17 at 1 PM ET
We’ll be debriefing this episode, answering your questions, and diving even deeper.
✨ @robynmckayphd
✨ @alyse_breathes

👉 If this episode resonates, share it with a friend, leave a review, and help us bring more light to this conversation.

Welcome back to Bewitched: Breaking the Spell After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong.

In this episode, we sit down with Alicia Isaacs Howes, who bravely shares her journey of realizing the extent of a spiritual mentor’s influence over her life and reclaiming her own wisdom.

Alicia’s story spans more than a decade, from her initial admiration and deep investment in Betty’s teachings to the unsettling experiences that ultimately led her to break free.

Through this conversation, we explore:

✨ How Alicia first encountered Betty and became deeply involved in her mentorship
✨ The warning signs that were easy to dismiss at the time but became glaring in hindsight
✨ The psychological and emotional manipulation that kept her—and so many others—entangled
✨ The moment she realized she had been groomed and how that awareness shifted everything
✨ How ‘divide and conquer’ tactics were used to separate trusted leaders from their communities
✨ The breaking point in Croatia and the terrifying retreat that unraveled into paranoia, control, and energy siphoning
✨ What it took to finally walk away—and how Alicia makes sense of it all today

Alicia’s story is one of heartbreak and resilience, a testament to the power of trusting your own wisdom. We also reflect on the bigger picture—what these experiences reveal about spiritual leadership, authority, and the importance of discernment in the coaching and healing industries.

If this episode resonates with you, we’d love to hear from you. Join us for our weekly Instagram Live sessions after each episode, where we’ll continue the conversation, answer your questions, and hold space for your reflections.

📲 Connect with us on Instagram:
Robyn McKay → @robynmckayphd
Alyse Bacine → @alyse_breathes

🔗 Share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. The only way to truly break the spell is to bring the truth into the light.

✨ Thank you for being here. Let’s keep rewriting the story together. ✨

Join the Conversation

In this episode of Bewitched: Breaking the Spell When Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong, Dr. Robyn McKay and Alyse Bacine sit down with Jia, a sharp, intuitive leader who found herself caught up in the world of high-level spiritual mentorship—until things took a turn.

Jia was with Robyn and Alyse in Santa Fe for what was supposed to be a transformational business and personal development retreat.

Later, she traveled to Croatia with the same mentor, “Betty,” and got a front-row seat to the dark side of mentorship gone wrong.

From sleep deprivation to gaslighting, from over-the-top paranoia to questioning every major life decision—this episode is a real talk on what happens when spiritual leadership gets messy.

If you’ve ever looked up to a mentor, only to realize they weren’t who you thought they were, this conversation is for you.

Jia shares her experience with refreshing honesty (and a little humor), reminding us all how easy it is to get caught up in someone else’s version of the truth—and how powerful it is to reclaim your own.

• How Jia got pulled into this mentorship—and the early red flags she missed
• The Santa Fe retreat experience: belonging, excitement, and the start of subtle influence
• How sleep deprivation, social dynamics, and paranoia set the stage for deeper manipulation
• What went down in Croatia (spoiler: it wasn’t just a relaxing getaway)
• The wake-up moment: when Jia realized she needed to get out
• The process of untangling from a mentor’s influence and finding her own truth again
• Lessons in discernment: how to spot the difference between true guidance and control

• Even smart, intuitive people can get caught up in unhealthy mentorship dynamics.
• If a mentor is making big statements about your life that you didn’t ask for, it’s okay to step back and question it.
• Just because someone has a strong presence doesn’t mean they have all the answers.
• Trusting your intuition is always more important than following someone else’s vision for you.
• Real mentorship is about guidance, not control—and the best leaders help you trust yourself more, not less.

If this episode hit home, we’d love to hear from you.

💬 Join us for the Bewitched Debrief every Monday at 3 PM Eastern on Instagram Live, where Alyse and Robyn reflect on the episode, answer questions, and dive deeper into these topics.

📲 Connect with us on Instagram:
🔹 @robynmckayphd
🔹 @alyse_breathes
🔹 @opulence_with_jia

💌 If you have a story to share, reach out—we’re here for real conversations about truth, healing, and reclaiming your own wisdom.

🎧 If you’re appreciating the series, we'd really love it if you'd leave a review, subscribe, and share this episode with someone who might need to hear it.

The more we talk about these things, the less power they have.

In this episode of Bewitched, Alyse Bacine and I are pulling back the veil on what happens when spiritual mentorship crosses the line. We’ve had the private conversations, done the deep processing, and now we’re bringing our experiences into the light.

Dr. McKay shares her intense journey of navigating through coercive control, manipulation, and psychological trauma induced by a well-known mentor referred to as 'Betty.' The episode details incidents from various retreats, the subtle ways the mentor imposed control, and the profound impact on their personal and professional lives.

The conversation explores the themes of trauma bonding, coercive control, and the importance of reclaiming one's consciousness. Join them as they lift the curtain on unethical spiritual practices and seek to transform their experiences into wisdom for the spiritual entrepreneurship community.

What We’re Covering:

• The fine line between spiritual mentorship and manipulation

• How power imbalances play out in coaching relationships

• The disillusionment that comes after putting someone on a pedestal

• Public reprimands, shame tactics, and subtle (or not-so-subtle) gaslighting

• How coercive control sneaks in—without you realizing it

• The confusion matrix: when everything is a game of smoke and mirrors

• The slow shift from business mentorship to full-blown psychodrama

• How exhaustion, lack of food, and isolation amplify suggestibility

• Speaking up, speaking out, and reclaiming our voices

Memorable Moments:

• “If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone.” – Dr. Robyn McKay

• “There’s always an enemy. If it’s not someone outside, it’s someone in the group.” – Alyse Bacine

• “I wasn’t just opening a bottle—I was unconsciously agreeing to something much bigger.” – Dr. Robyn McKay

• “You don’t have to be weak or naive for this to happen to you. You just have to be open.” – Alyse Bacine

What You’ll Take Away:

• How to recognize when mentorship is becoming manipulative

• Why trusting your gut is always the right move

• The subtle tactics that keep people in unhealthy dynamics longer than they should be

• How to reclaim your agency and find your own clarity

• The importance of true integrity in leadership and spiritual business spaces

Let’s Keep This Conversation Going:
This is just the beginning. If this episode sparked something for you—whether it’s questions, reflections, or your own story—join us for our weekly Instagram Live sessions after each episode drops. We’ll be unpacking more, answering questions, and holding space for real talk.

Find us on Instagram:

• @robynmckayphd

• @alyse_breathes

Support & Subscribe:
If this episode resonated, share it. Subscribe. Leave a review. It helps us continue to bring these conversations forward and create space for the voices that need to be heard.

00:00 Introduction to Bewitched Podcast

03:11 Personal Stories and Experiences

04:12 Robyn's Background and Journey

06:07 The Start of a Troubling Mentorship

09:49 Power Dynamics and Boundaries

21:46 The Denver Retreat: Strange Occurrences

35:29 San Diego Retreat: Escalating Concerns

43:09 Manipulative Patterns and Psychodrama

45:11 Unethical Practices and Personal Reflections

47:30 Trauma Bonding and Psychological Manipulation

48:58 Questioning the Benefits and Business Impact

50:37 The Shift to Spiritual Training53:55 Coercive Control and Decision Making

54:51 Santa Fe Retreat: Turning Point

57:06 Escalation and Confusion

01:02:07 Cultish Behavior and Channeling

01:12:59 Croatia Retreat: The Final Straw

01:19:17 Conclusion and Call to Action

Thank you for being here—we’ll see you next time. We love you a million.

PS: Mil gracias to The Base Sound for your editing & production genius. They provide a perfect blend of tech, marketing and communication solutions for your brand through business podcasting…and a little more. "Because mediocrity isn’t an option when you’re set to rule the digital world.” You can find them right here: https://thebasesound.com/

Episode Summary:

Today, we’re pulling back the curtain on a conversation that many in the spiritual and coaching industries have hesitated to have.

In this special mini-series, Bewitched: Breaking the Spell After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong, we’re talking about what happens when coaching crosses ethical lines, when power imbalances and coercion take hold, and when the very mentorship you sought for expansion becomes a source of harm.

Joining me is my dear friend and the host of Reclaiming Consciousness, Alyse Bacine. Together, we’re sharing our personal journeys through a coaching experience that, in hindsight, held many red flags—financial manipulation, coercive control, and harmful psychological tactics disguised as spiritual mentorship.

This is about more than just one coach or one experience—this is about reclaiming consciousness, recovering from destabilizing dynamics, and moving forward as leaders who uphold integrity in the coaching space.

🔹 How a once-trusted mentor used coercion, manipulation, and power dynamics to keep clients financially and psychologically entangled.

🔹 The subtle and overt ways coercive control appears in coaching spaces, from shaming to sleep deprivation to fabricated crises.

🔹 The impact of high-control coaching on intuition, self-trust, and personal power.

🔹 The role of unresolved trauma in keeping people stuck in unhealthy mentorship dynamics.

🔹 The process of reclaiming sovereignty, grounding back into your own wisdom, and moving forward stronger.

🔹 A deeper conversation on spiritual integrity, ethical leadership, and why these stories must be told.

✨ “If it can happen to us, it can happen to anyone.”

✨ “There was always an enemy, someone out to get her—and we were constantly pulled into the psychodrama.”

✨ “Being in these high-control coaching environments destabilizes you at your core, and you start questioning yourself in ways you never did before.”

✨ “This experience made me even more committed to integrity in my work and helping my clients get real, tangible results.”

• Listen to Alyse Bacine’s Podcast: Reclaiming Consciousness
• Follow along on Instagram: @robynmckayphd | @alyse_breathes
• Interested in trauma-informed coaching and ethical leadership? Stay connected for upcoming conversations and resources.

This episode is an invitation to open your eyes, trust yourself, and have the conversations that matter. Have you experienced a coaching relationship that felt off? How did you navigate it?

Share your thoughts on Instagram and tag us:
📍 @robynmckayphd
📍 @alyse_breathes

If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who might need to hear it. The more we bring these stories to light, the more we break the spell.

Thank you for being here—we’ll see you next time. We love you a million.

PS: Mil gracias to The Base Sound for your editing & production genius. They provide a perfect blend of tech, marketing and communication solutions for your brand through business podcasting…and a little more. "Because mediocrity isn’t an option when you’re set to rule the digital world.” You can find them right here: https://thebasesound.com/

In this inspiring author spotlight, Dr. Robyn McKay sits down with Valerie Chandler, contributing author to Messages from Beyond the Sun. Valerie’s journey is one of transformation—bridging her formal training as a civil engineer with her intuitive gifts to connect with nature and share its wisdom.

They explore:

Tune in to discover the playful and profound messages from nature and how Valerie has woven her unique perspective into this beautiful anthology.

Resources:

In this episode of our Author Spotlight series, Dr. Robyn McKay sits down with Karla Jordan, contributing author to Messages from Beyond the Sun and CFO of a seven-figure biotech corporation. Karla shares her inspiring journey of integrating intuition and spirituality into her corporate leadership role. From compartmentalizing her gifts to embracing her full self, Karla's story offers a fresh perspective on leading with authenticity and balance.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

Connect with Karla Jordan:
Follow Karla’s Amazon author profile here.

Get Your Copy of Messages from Beyond the Sun:
Explore the transformative stories from Karla and other incredible authors. Available now on Amazon!