I sit down with Lyle Trytten—nicknamed the “Nickel Nerd”—a chemical engineer and metallurgical consultant specializing in critical minerals and sustainability. With decades of experience from mining operations to refining and supply chains, Lyle breaks down the complex realities behind the recent surge of tariffs and trade tensions between the U.S. and Canada—and their potential consequences for critical mineral supply chains.

Lyle explains why tariffs meant to encourage domestic processing might backfire, raising costs and making U.S. manufacturing less competitive globally. He also details just how reliant the United States is on Canadian imports, especially for nickel and cobalt—critical minerals essential for the energy transition.

Plus, we discuss Canada's response, how trade tensions are influencing market sentiment, and what policymakers and industry need to understand to navigate the intricate balance of economic nationalism, geopolitical tensions, and global supply chain realities.

Follow Lyle: LinkedIn | Bluesky (search: "Nickel Nerd")

Episode Segments & Timestamps

00:00 – Intro & Context01:04 – Building mineral processing capacity isn’t simple01:53 – Deep-sea mining and supply chain geopolitics07:04 – Can tariffs bring processing back home?10:23 – Case study: Mountain Pass rare earth mine13:44 – Expertise shortfall in Western supply chains15:04 – Why even proven tech isn’t plug-and-play17:17 – U.S. mineral dependency on Canada21:29 – Canadian backlash to U.S. trade policy25:04 – Decision-making in the face of trade-offs30:24 – The limits of international regulation33:12 – What makes a good mining regulator?37:44 – Legacy sites and sustainability regulation40:05 – Lyle’s recommended resources & thinkers42:24 – Wrap-up & final reflections

Theme music Tamarack by Jesse Matas

Additional notes / corrections

Largest potash producers are Canada, Belarus, Russia.

Kazakhstan is the dominant producer of Uranium

Sustainable mining standards

ICMM - International Council on Mining and Metals (https://www.icmm.com)

TSM - Towards sustainable Mining (https://mining.ca/towards-sustainable-mining/) ‘

* Note that Norway, Finland, Spain, Australia, Brazil, Argentina, Botswana, and the Philippines have all agreed to adopt both standards

📚 Lyle’s list of resources:

* Terry (Terence) McNulty’s influential papers on plant startups and processing failures (searchable as “McNulty Curves”): Link to Terry McNulty's work

* Bent Flyvbjerg (megaproject analysis): LinkedIn

* book with and Dan Gardner book: How Big Things Get Done

* On the Rocks podcast (Emily King): Nickel 101 with Lyle Trytten

* Michael Liebreich (global energy transition issues): Cleaning Up podcast | https://www.liebreich.com/

* Michael Barnard (global energy transition issues): writings for Clean Technica | LinkedIn

* Energy vs Climate podcast: energyvsclimate.com

* Jesse Jenkins (US energy transition and policy): featured on Shift Key podcast: Spotify or Apple or other platforms

Two that didn’t get a shoutout but are also endorsed:

* Markham Hislop Energi Media (sometimes controversial and blunt content on Canada’s energy transition): Website and YouTube, podcast on Spotify or Apple or others

* Jigar Shah (US energy transition and policy): Open Circuit podcast on Spotify, Apple or other platforms

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

In this conversation, Oliver Gunasekara discusses the innovative system developed by Impossible Metals aimed at addressing the environmental challenges associated with deep sea nodule mining.

Oliver emphasizes the importance of modern technology in reducing the ecological impact of mining operations while ensuring the extraction of critical minerals necessary for the energy transition. The discussion also covers the regulatory landscape, the controversies surrounding deep sea mining, and the need for transparency and trust in the industry.

Check out their 3D Animation of the system (90 seconds video):

🔗 Resources & Links:

* Impossible Metals: https://www.impossiblemetals.com

* FAQ : https://impossiblemetals.com/frequently-asked-questions/faqs-environmental-and-social-responsibility-for-deep-sea-mining/

* · Follow LinkedIn page for updates: https://www.linkedin.com/company/impossible-metals/

* Oliver Gunasekara on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gunasekara/

* · Blog: https://impossiblemetals.com/blog/why-will-deep-sea-mining-be-less-expensive-than-traditional-land-based-mining/

* · Blog: How the Environmental Impact Assessment is a Keystone of Decision-Making in Deep-Sea Mining

* · Impossible Metals new Podcast: Beyond Oil: The rise of critical minerals

* · Register for Webinar: Deep Dive into the Updated Techno Economic Model on Friday, March 21, 8:00 am PDT (11 am EDT)

Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction: Rethinking Deep Sea Mining01:20 – Oliver’s Background and Path to Deep Sea Mining03:09 – Why Deep Sea Mining? A Climate-Driven Pivot05:43 – Environmental Impact Starts with Technology07:28 – Designing from First Principles10:38 – The Core Architecture of Impossible Metals14:16 – The Buoyancy Engine: A New Kind of Mobility18:16 – Smart Launch and Recovery Explained20:34 – Operating in Rough Seas: More Days, Better Economics23:14 – Designing for Reduced Environmental Harm31:05 – Business Model: Partner or Operator?33:22 – Development Timeline and Readiness Level36:40 – Speed, Scale, and Collection Economics41:27 – Why the Cost Advantage is So Large46:34 – Processing Nodules: Can Existing Infrastructure Adapt?47:14 – Public Perception and Pushback50:31 – Moratorium vs Ban: Clarifying the Debate53:49 – Trade-Offs and Trust in Environmental Decision-Making57:30 – The Role of Trust and Transparency1:01:46 – Why the Spotlight on Deep Sea Mining Now?1:07:11 – Recycling, Substitution, and Demand Realities1:11:31 – Ethical Access, Global Equity, and the Climate Crisis1:13:06 – Competitors and the Long Game1:14:32 – Final Thoughts and Where to Learn More

Theme music Tamarack by Jesse Matas

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

I speak with Simon Jowitt about the nuances of the mining industry. We discuss the importance of mining in modern society, the dynamics of resources and reserves, and the environmental and social considerations that impact mining operations.

The conversation also delves into the future of deep sea mining, the role of critical minerals in the economy, and the details and possibilities of the mining industry for meeting growing demand while ensuring sustainable practices.

Simon Jowitt is Director, Nevada Bureau of Mines and Geology | Nevada State Geologist | Arthur Brant Chair in Exploration Geology | Director, Ralph J. Roberts Center for Research in Economic Geology, University of Nevada Reno.

Follow him at https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejow/

Here is the link to Simon’s paper with Gavin Mudd and John Thompson: Future availability of non-renewable metal resources and the influence of environmental, social, and governance conflicts on metal production

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to Economic Geology

06:32 Simon Jowitt's Journey in Geology

13:39 The Importance of Mining and Resource Management

19:47 Understanding Resources and Reserves

25:26 Environmental and Social Challenges in Mining

32:53 Optimism in the Face of Challenges

33:58 Historical Context of Resource Reporting

36:00 The Impact of Mining Scandals

37:47 Trends in Resource Availability

40:45 Deep Sea Mining vs. Terrestrial Mining

45:51 Concerns Over Deep Sea Mining

53:34 The Future of Mining in the US

57:25 Understanding Critical Minerals

01:08:34 New Chapter

Keywords

deep sea mining, economic geology, resources, reserves, environmental impact, critical minerals, mining industry, energy transition, ESG, mining economics

Theme music Tamarack by Jesse Matas

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

Listen to the full episode on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or your preferred player

Dorothy Dankel joins Eric to discuss her recent paper with Min Hyung Kim on how society should navigate the epistemic authority of science and how we need to be ‘ready to be wrong’ and be more comfortable with the fact of uncertainty. This conversation delves into the complexities of deep sea mining, the intersection of journalism and scientific research, and the philosophical underpinnings of science. The discussion highlights the importance of collaboration in scientific endeavors, the challenges posed by uncertainty in research, and the implications of post-normal science in understanding environmental issues. The conversation also emphasizes the need for more deep sea research and the potential risks and opportunities associated with deep sea mining.

Dorothy is Senior Research Scientist at SINTEF Ocean and adjunct assoc. professor at the Dept. of Biological Sciences, University of Bergen in Norway. Her expertise is in Responsible Research and Innovation (RRI) and transdisciplinarity in Marine Science. She is Chair of the Nordic Marine Think Tank and has been a fellow at the University of Massachusetts, Dartmouth, School of Marine Science and Technology (SMAST) and the International Institute of Applied Systems Analysis (IIASA).

Follow Dorothy on LinkedIn

Time stamps

00:00 Intro

00:27 Dorothy's Journey from Journalism to Marine Research

06:05 The Intersection of Journalism and Research

10:15 Exploring the New Paper: Are We Ready to Be Wrong?

16:04 The Mackerel Case: A Study in Post-Normal Science

27:28 Stakeholder Engagement in Science

32:54 Navigating Uncertainty and Complexity

49:06 Intellectual Humility in Scientific Discourse

56:10 Deep Sea Mining: Risks and Opportunities

Theme music Tamarack by Jesse Matas

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

Listen to the full episode on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or your preferred player

Lars Kristian Trellevik, Chief Operations and Sustainability Officer at Adepth Minerals, speaks with Eric about the complexities and challenges of exploring and potentially mining the deep sea. They discuss Trellevik's long experience of deep sea operations, the philosophical underpinnings of Deep Ecology, and the importance of systems thinking in addressing the energy transition. Lars Kristian also explores his first hand experience in the polarized debate surrounding deep sea mining, the precautionary principle, and the need for responsible research and regulation. Trellevik emphasizes the importance of understanding the broader context of deep sea mining and the misconceptions that often arise in public discourse.

Keep up with Lars Kristian on LinkedIn and read the publications discussed at his ResearchGate page and his Blog “Deep-Sea Minerals: On Hubris, Morality and Asymmetric Uncertainty”

Time stamps

* 02:08 The Philosophy of Deep Ecology and its Relevance

* 05:36 Systems Thinking and Trade-offs in Energy Transition

* 12:42 The Polarized Debate on Deep Sea Mining

* 19:01 Uncertainty and the Precautionary Principle in Deep Sea Mining

* 36:53 Exploring ADEPTH's Focus on Deep Sea Minerals

* 41:54 Navigating the Licensing Process for Deep Sea Mining

* 48:01 Understanding Public Perception and Trust in Government

* 57:37 Addressing Misconceptions in Deep Sea Mining

* 01:05:19 Critiquing the Dark Oxygen Hypothesis

Theme music Tamarack by Jesse Matas

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

Listen to the full episode on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or your preferred player

Eric is joined by journalist Elyse Hauser, whose work on deep-sea mining brings a much-needed depth to a topic often superficially covered. Elyse shares her transition from marketing to journalism, motivated by her passion for environmental integrity and her deep connection to aquatic environments.

We delve into how deep-sea mining is portrayed in the media, the misconceptions prevalent in public discourse, and the complexities overlooked in mainstream narratives. Elyse discusses the journalistic challenges and responsibilities in covering such a multifaceted subject, emphasizing the need for greater investigative depth and critical analysis.

Elyse’s Substack Notes From the Deep is a treasure trove of information, entertainment, and nuance on all things deep sea.

Time stamps

* 00:00 Introduction to Deep Sea Mining and Journalism

* 05:12 Complexities of Deep Sea Mining

* 12:01 Gaps in Mainstream Media Reporting

* 16:16 Narratives in Deep Sea Mining Coverage

* 22:52 Comparing Research and Journalism

* 27:27 Editorial Challenges in Journalism

* 34:58 The Complexities of Deep Sea Mining Narratives

* 39:16 Norway's Unique Position in Deep Sea Mining

* 45:20 The U.S. Approach to Deep Sea Mining

* 52:10 Media's Role in Deep Sea Mining Discourse

Theme music Tamarack by Jesse Matas

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com

This podcast has 3 aims

1- to share knowledge about deep sea mining, and about the drivers of the deep sea mining conversation: critical minerals, ecosystem integrity, geopolitics, ethical values.

2- to give access to viewpoints from all sides of the deep sea mining conversation. So that those involved have a chance to be heard and understood and to hear and to understand one another.

3- To explore the central issues of sustainability, externalities, and the energy transition through the test case of deep sea mining.

Philosophers like to choose artificially extreme versions of real world problems as thought experiments to help explore a point. I was originally attracted to deep sea mining as a thought experiment for the material impacts of the energy transition and the difficult trade-offs that we are forced to face. Deep sea mining is a useful test case for many of these ideas, both because it is a quintessential dilemma of the current moment, and because the nuances and details which are often being left out of the conversations are crucial for understanding and for making responsible decisions.

Going forward I will release interviews with key deep sea mining experts as well as relevant thinkers on related topics.

Like, subscribe, share, enjoy.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tradingoff.substack.com