Do you feel like you are in an emotionally distant marriage? In this special episode, Jim and Lynne Jackson interview Ron and Nan Deal about their new book, The Mindful Marriage, which combines biblical foundations with brain science. The authors vulnerably share how their marriage hit a crisis point after 20 years, leading them to seek help from a therapist (who later co-authored the book with them). They explain how our “pain cycles” develop from childhood and manifest in four reactive coping styles: blame, shame, control, and escape. The conversation explores their four-step process for moving from destructive pain cycles to “peace cycles.” This approach isn’t just for marriage but applies to all relationships as it’s fundamentally about discipleship—bringing your best self to relationships by following Jesus.

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Married since 1986, Ron and Nan Deal are the authors of The Mindful Marriage: Create Your Best Relationship Through Understanding and Managing Yourself, as well as popular marriage conference speakers. Ron is the bestselling author of more than a dozen books and resources, a licensed marriage and family therapist, a podcast host, and a Senior Director for the ministry of FamilyLife. Nan retired from teaching after 25 years and currently works for a Christian non-profit ministry. They have three sons, a daughter-in-law, one grandson, and a Golden Retriever and live in Little Rock, Arkansas. Learn more at RonDeal.org.

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