The Faster Than Normal Podcast: ADD | ADHD | Health

Abbie McCarthy is an award-winning TV / Radio presenter & DJ, you'll find her hosting BBC Music Introducing in Kent on the airwaves every Saturday night and also bringing great new music & fun interviews to your TV screens on 4Music and E4 Extra with Fresh This Month. Abbie is known for bringing the party with her DJ sets and this year has played at a whole host of festivals, including Glastonbury, Latitude & Knebworth, as well as playing several arena shows. Abbie is also the host and curator of popular gig night Good Karma Club, which has put on early shows for the likes of Tom Grennan, Mae Muller, Easy Life & many more and has even featured some famous faces in the crowds over the years - Alex Turner, Lewis Capaldi & Wolf Alice. Abbie's huge contribution to both the radio & music industry was celebrated when she was inducted into the Roll of Honour at Music Week's Women In Music Awards 2018. Abbie has been highlighted by the Radio Academy as one of the brightest young stars in radio, recently featuring in their esteemed 30 under 30 list and winning Silver for Best Music Presenter at the ARIAs 2020. Aside from music, Abbie's other passion is sport, which really shines through in her entertaining coverage on Matchday Live for Chelsea TV. You'll also find Abbie guesting frequently on BBC Two's football show, MOTDx and doing online coverage for England and the Lionesses football teams. How has she been so successful already, especially having just recently been diagnosed, and what advice does she impart to us? Enjoy!

In this episode Peter and Abbie McCarthy discuss:

00:40 - Thank you so much for listening and for subscribing!

00:47 - Intro and welcome Abbie 'AbbieAbbieMac' McCarthy!

03:00 - So you just got diagnosed a year ago, so tell us your backstory?

05:51 - What rituals have you put into play for yourself to be able to get through the boring stuff?

07:00 - Do you get a dopamine release after having completed a list, or boring stuff?

07:38 - Who happens when you have to quickly adjust course? How do you balance your dopamine producers at all hours of the day and night, as various types of work demands?

10:30 - How do you handle negative criticism, and keep performing at one hundred percent even on tough news days?

12:32 - What have you had to fight through with respect to your being a Millennial, and a Female in a often-times patronizing industry?

14:23 - Americans are learning more about Premier League Football thanks to Ted Lasso. Who's your team?

14:40 - How can people find more about you?

Web: https://abbiemccarthy.co.uk

Socials: @AbbieAbbieMac everywhere: Twitter INSTA TikTok FB

This was great- thank you Abbie!!

Guys, as always thanks so much for subscribing! Faster Than Normal is for YOU! We want to know what you'd like to hear! Do you have a cool friend with a great story? We'd love to learn about, and from them. I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via email at [email protected] or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse!

16:00 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits.

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TRANSCRIPT via Descript and then corrected.. somewhat: [00:00:40] Peter: Yo, everyone! Welcome to Faster Than Normal, another episode. Thrilled to have you as always. We got someone fun today to talk about- Abbie McCarthy is joining us from the OK. She's an award-winning TV and radio presenter and DJ. Okay, you'll find her hosting BBC music, introducing intent on the airwaves every Saturday night, and also bringing great new music and fun interviews to your TV screen on 4 Music and Eve four extra with fresh this month. She brings the party with her DJ sets. She has played a whole host of festival. She's played Glastonbury, Latitude & Knebworth, as well as playing several arena shows and she's serious. Like, no joke. She doesn't, she doesn't fuck around. You're gonna, you're gonna like this one. She's the hosting curator of popular Gig Night. Good Karma Club. God, what else has she done? Uh, she was nominated, she was inducted into the role of honor at Music Week's, women in Music Awards 2018. She's been highlighted by the radio academy as one of the brightest young stars in radio, recently featured and their esteemed 30 under 30 lists and winning silvers for best music presenter at the Arias 2020 I. Being in PR week, magazines 30 under 30, and I'm now 50. So yeah, now I'm all pissed off. It's gonna be a shitty interview. All right. Anyway, Abby, welcome. I feel old. How are you?!

[00:02:03] Abbie: Oh, I'm good, thank you. How are you? Thank you so much for having me.

[00:02:05] Peter: I'm thrilled to have you. So you came to us because you, you were reading Faster Than Normal, the book, and you identified with it, and you found yourself in it.

[00:02:13] Abbie: Absolutely. I really loved it. I just loved the whole concept of it. The fact that you kind of said our our brains are like Lamborghinis. They just work faster than everybody else. But if you do the right things, you can use it quite efficiently. I thought it was a really nice way to approach it. Cause I think there's some books that you read and it's about kind of, Dismissing that you have A D H D or kind of not embracing it. But I thought that the whole approach was great and yeah, I took so much from it. And because I've only recently been diagnosed, it was such a useful book to lose myself in. I actually managed to read it in a couple of days and obviously everyone listened to this that has a D H D knows that's not always, that's not always easy. So I think it, uh, became my hyper focus for a couple of days. I really enjoyed it.

[00:02:56] Peter: Very true. We don't, we don't normally finish things like that. Um, now tell us, so, so you just got diagnosed a year ago, so tell us your backstory. Tell us about what it was like growing up before you were diagnosed. What was it like as a kid? Did you, what was school like for you? Things like that.

[00:03:10] Abbie: I think I'm one of those classic people where, I was, I was, I was okay at school. I got like fairly good grades and I was always being told off for talking too much, which obviously makes a lot of sense now and I think that would happen more and more in the classes of things that I wasn't particularly interested in. Uh, you know, you mentioned at the start, I do lots of different things within music and, and some within sport as well. So I'm, I'm a creative person, so some of the more academic subjects I didn't particularly like, but I. Was Okay and, and got good grades, um, which maybe was why it wasn't picked up, I guess, when I was a teenager. Uh, but I, it's, I have this thing where I guess I. I just always felt like I was different, but I couldn't quite put my finger on why. And you know, even as I've got older and I've got to do some great things in my professional life, like being on the radio to me is my dream job. I still can't believe I get to do that. I get to go on the airwaves, pick amazing music, and connect with people and share it with them, but that's awesome. You know, it's, it's. It's, you know, you might look at me and be like, oh, she's getting to do her dream job. But then it's like, it's more like all the things I struggle with at home, I guess. It's like, you know, keeping on top of errands and, and things like that and organizing other aspects of, of my life. And I think that's the thing with A D H D, isn't it? Someone on the surface might look a certain way, but you never know what's. Going on in, in somebody's head. Do you, you know, my brain is racing constantly. Yeah. Um, but you know, I've, I've managed to, to hold down a job and I guess I'm lucky because it's , it's, it is in things that I'm interested in, so that makes it easier too.

[00:04:50] Peter: Well, that's, I mean, that's really the key. You know, we, we all have to realize, you know, there are people who, who don't have faster than normal brains who can just sort of wake up, go to their job every day, do it for 40 years, retire, get their little gold watch, you know, and, and whether they love the job or not, is irrelevant to them. I. It's a means to an end. It's a way to make money. If we don't love what we're doing, we're not doing it well.

[00:05:10] Abbie: Yeah. Or you just don't wanna do it full stop. Exactly. So I feel so blessed to be doing something that I absolutely love and I. I'm so excited to go into work every day and the, you know, what I do is really varied as well, which I think works with our brains too. Like, I'm not gonna get bored. Each week can be very, very different. Sometimes I'm in the studio doing a radio show, then it's something like festival season where I'm kind of here, there and everywhere DJing. It might be going to interview somebody, you know, on the other side of the country. It might be going to a gig somewhere else. So it, it's, yeah, it's, it keeps it interesting. It's, it keeps it lively.

[00:05:43] Peter: Tell me about, um, so let's talk about the stuff you're not that great at. Let's talk about like, you know, what is it like to, you know, running the errands, things like that. What kind of, um, sort of rituals have you put into play for yourself to be able to get through the, the, the, the boring stuff?

[00:05:57] Abbie: I actually got this piece of advice from somebody on social media when I first posted that I'd got a diagnosis and they were saying the things that you don't enjoy, things like housework and errands and food shopping. It's almost like, think of it in a different way, sort of set yourself, um, a bit of a competition or like, so you're trying to do it in the quickest amount of time or, you know, you set yourself a reward once you've finished it, things like that. So then actually that those, those activities aren't just draining. You are in some way getting a little bit of dopamine and I think it's just like picking the right time in the day to do some of this stuff as well. I think now I try and get up, exercise is a big one for me and I know it's for, for you as well from, from reading your book, getting up, going to the gym, even if I don't feel like it, which I don't a lot of the time, I always feel so much better afterwards than kind of getting all of those errands and boring things out of the way and then I can just enjoy the rest of my day and I kind of don't feel the guilt that I haven't done all the, all the adult things I guess that I think I should have.

[00:07:02] Peter: Well, it's interesting because that there is a, there are some studies that say that getting the boring stuff and stuff that you don't love getting it done is actually a dopamine release. Um, once they're all, not from doing them per se, but from that feeling you get of, oh, I don't have to do them anymore because I did them.

[00:07:17] Abbie: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. You actually completed something that you set out to do, so that's gonna give you a buzz, isn't it?

[00:07:22] Peter: Talk about, uh, some times where it's not that easy. Have things happened, whether you are in, uh, you know, whether you're at work or whatever? How do you deal with the things that, you know, you're, you're going a million miles an hour, right? When you're, when you're DJing or when you're working whatever, you're going a million miles an hour. What happens when you have to adjust course, uh, suddenly when you suddenly, you know, find yourself going off track or something like that. How do you keep yourself going, especially in a high energy job like that, because there's really only so much dopamine mean you can give. Uh, to get through over the course of a day, right. At some point, you know, I know that, that if I time it right, I give a keynote, I get done with the keynote, I get into the airport, get back onto the plane, and that's when I pass out. Right. So, how are you sometimes you're doing, I, I, especially as a DJ you're doing late, late nights, right? You know, into, into the wee hours in the morning. How are you holding that up? How are you keeping yourself aligned?

[00:08:14] Abbie: I think when I am DJing or I'm, yeah, playing a big event, I get so in the zone. I get so pumped for it. So I kind of have enough energy to, to get through it. I think the thing that I struggle with the most is when I've had, you know, a really great run of work, so something like festival season or because I work in football, you know, the, the Premier League season that we have over here. I've just been getting to work on loads of games with that. When that stops and there's just naturally a tiny little lull in work, and I say a lull, it's like four days or something, and. Get really down cuz I'm like, I dunno what to do with all of this energy that I've got. I almost dunno how to, to harness it. And then I have a real low and I'm kind of waiting for the buzz and the high again of, of doing all the things that I love. And I think that's been a learning experience for me is when I have these days off. Which I really crave when I'm in the thick of it. You know, when you are like working back to back and you're traveling everywhere, you can't wait for a day where you are. You can just not think about work and relax. But when it gets to those days, I find it really hard to actually lean into them. So that's something I need to work on to be honest. Um, but the other thing that I think is a bit of a struggle in the job that I do, and maybe you'll relate to this or other people will relate to this. Do more of a kind of public facing job is, you know, the sensitivity we can have to rejection and criticism. It's very much part of my job, you know, it'll be like, I'll be presenting something or I'll send off a show reel sometimes I'm super lucky and I get the job. Sometimes I don't. That's just part of the business, but I might then be really upset about that for a little while, and I think sometimes. The emotional deregulation thing. I can f I can feel a little bit. So that can be hard. I guess if you are, you're in the fields and you're not feeling so great and then you've gotta, you know, go on air and give people a good show, give people a good time. But sometimes I imagine that's a savior because you kind of have to put on this. I thought, great, let's have a good time. And you're doing it for other people. You're doing it for that feeling. It'll give somebody else. And the connection that you have with you and your listeners is really special. So you kind of wanna keep that. So sometimes in a way it can get you out of your funk, which I think is good.

[00:10:30] Peter: That's actually a really interesting point because I imagine that, you know, especially as a creative right, you do these amazing DJ sets, you, you're, you know, on the radio, whatever, and then yeah. You know, millions of people might love it, but there's one person who posted comments somewhere that's negative and that's all we think about, right? The same thing happens to me in keynotes. Mm-hmm. , but it's a real, you, you, you gave us a really interesting point, the concept of going on stage and having to put on that smile regardless of whether you're feeling it or not. You know, you don't have a choice, right? Mm-hmm. . So I would think that, yeah, in a lot of ways that's probably very, very helpful because you know that which you believe you eventually achieve, so, right? So, so you, you put that happy face on, you give that speech or you, you do that set at the end of it, you're gonna have that dopamine regardless. So it's a nice sort of, a nice sort of, uh, I guess, cheat sheet to get out of it.

[00:11:20] Abbie: Yeah, it actually is. Yeah, cuz it kind of gets you into that mental space, even if you really weren't feeling it beforehand. It might be, you know, you've got some really bad news an hour before I'm gonna go on the radio, but then as soon as I'm on the radio, I'm there to. I'm there to give it everything and to hopefully, um, bring people great music but also, you know, some good stories and, and keep them company as well. So it can be very useful cuz it can definitely switch you into a more positive place. And like you say, access that dopamine that we are always searching for.

[00:11:51] Peter: Tell us about, um, how, first of all, how old are you, if you don't mind telling us.

[00:11:54] Abbie: I'm, uh, I'm 32, so I got diagnosed when I was say 31.

[00:11:58] Peter: You're 32 and you're female, and you're in an industry that's predominantly male focused and male driven. Right? So you are coming in as sort of a, I guess, uh, what are you, A millennial, I guess. Are you a millennial or Gen Y? What are you?

[00:12:10] Abbie: Yeah, I'll be, I'm a millennial. I wish I was a Gen Z yeah.

[00:12:12] Peter: You're in the cusp of a millennial, right? You're coming as cusp millennial. Tell us about some of the fights you've dealt with and some of the battles you've fought coming in as a millennial, a neurotypical, a neuro atypical millennial, um, who's a female in this male dominated industry. Right. You've, I'm, I'm sure you've, you've had to step up several times, both in, in football as well as DJ ing,

[00:12:32] Abbie: Yeah, I feel like I feel it the most as a DJ actually to be honest, where you'll turn up to DJ at a festival and a club and predominantly a lot of people working in that industry, it is changing, which is great to see. But a lot of people working in that industry, uh, are male. And sometimes you can get a few patronizing kind of sound engineers who are like, oh, do you know how to use the equipment? Do you need any help with that? And you're like, yeah, that's why I'm here. I'm here to, I'm here to dj. I'm here to do the thing that you booked me for. Or the, or, you know, the, the place book before. So I feel like you can experience a bit of that and I think a lot of stuff like where, you know, you are doing as good a job as your male counterparts, but you're probably not getting paid the same. But I think so much is changing. There's a real positive shift in like entertainment, in music, in sport. To, to even things out. But I do, um, some stuff for, uh, for B B C sport and uh, a sport. Chelsea, sorry if you don't, or sorry if people listening don't. So I do some of their matchday live programming as well, and I, I sometimes feel most vulnerable being like a woman in sport. Cause I think often people are just looking to just dismiss what you say because that industry is still so, so male dominated. That one's probably got the most catching up to do. Um, so dealing with that sometimes, but then it's, I think sometimes you just have to, although we find it hard, it's like shut out the outside noise and, and thoughts and just have real confidence and belief in what you are doing and what you are saying. That's the only thing you can do.

[00:14:10] Peter: Shut out the outside thoughts. I love that. So I've actually been a, I've been a Premier League fan for, for years, and I can tell you over the past few years here in America, I'd say millions more people have suddenly learned about non-American football thanks to Ted Lasso. So I think that, um, people are definitely learning a bit more , um, about it. What is your, who's your, who's your team?

[00:14:31] Abbie: Uh, Chelsea. Chelsea Football Club. Yeah, I've been a fan since I was like six or seven. So the good times and the bad times, and the Inbetweens .

[00:14:40] Peter: Very cool. I love this, Abbie! This has been so much fun. How can people find you?

[00:14:44] Abbie: Uh, people can find me on socials, uh, a Abbie Abbie Mac. That's my handle on everything. So A B B I E. Um, yeah, come and say hello! You know what? Us people with A D H D are like we, we love to connect. So yeah, please do, uh, get involved. Gimme a follow and uh, shout me in the dms and thank you so much again, Peter. It's been so fun.

[00:15:04] Peter: Oh, I'm so glad to have you! Guys listen to her stuff. She really is amazing, Abbie it's pretty incredible. Abbie McCarthy, thank you so much for taking the time.

Guys. By the time this comes out, you will probably. Have already heard the news that, uh, Faster Than Normal is being turned into a kid's book. It is. I can give you a title now. It's called The Boy With the Faster Brain, and it is my first attempt at writing a children's book and I am so excited. So I will have links, uh, on where to purchase and how to purchase and how to get fun stuff like that and how to have me come in and, and talk to your schools and your kids and, and whatever soon enough. So stick to that. As always, if you know anyone that we should be interviewing, shoot us a note. Just people as cool as Abbie and all and above only. Those are the only ones we want. No, I'm kidding. Anyone, anyone you think has a great story, we would love to highlight them on the podcast. My name is Peter Shankman. I'm at Peter Shankman on all the socials. We're at Faster normal as well, and we will see you next week. Thank you for listening and keep remembering you are gifted, not broken. We'll see you soon! —

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at shankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week!

Nathan Minns is the founder of Green Light Improv, a professional training company that cultivates resilience, enhances creativity, and improves communication, all while inspiring connection through improv comedy. Beginning as an actor in 2015, Nathan soon realized that his acting training was positively affecting other work skills, from creativity and confidence, to communication and decision-making. Ultimately, the change he saw in himself led him to create Green Light Improv in 2019. Green Light Improv inspires connection through improv comedy. The company doesn't teach improv comedy, but instead uses improv comedy as a tool to teach other work and life skills. In 2022, Nathan quit his job and is now working full-time to spread applied improv training. An Ohio State University graduate, Nathan has previously spent most of his career in the startup ecosystem as an employee and a 3x founder. How does this all work with his ADHD? Can Improv Comedy work via your ADHD too? Enjoy!

In this episode Peter and Nathan Minns discuss:

00:40 - Thank you so much for listening and for subscribing!

01:01 - Intro and welcome Nathan Minns!

02:50 - So Improv is a cult right? What got you into it? What got you excited?

05:51 - Can improv positively affect your mental health? Focusing on 2 things tandem?

07:10 - What is the reason people with neurodiverse brains are drawn to the improv community?

07:50 - How do you feel on stage? Why do you continue to practice improv?

08:30 - What kinds of folks are you working with; what all is your Green Light Improv company doing?

09:45 - Can you share an example you've experienced in where a new client 'gets it' for the first time, as you did?

12:40 - Is it about the 8 people you're in a room with, or the eventual audience?

13:48 - Neurodiverse brains. Conversation engineering and management. Improv is a team sport.

14:48 - How can people find more about you?

Web: https://greenlightimprov.com Personal: https://nathanminns.com

Socials: @ linkedin.com/in/minns on LinkedIN and via YouTube

15:06 - We should talk about improv as a tool and subject again- than you Nathan!!

Guys, as always thanks so much for subscribing! Faster Than Normal is for YOU! We want to know what you'd like to hear! Do you have a cool friend with a great story? We'd love to learn about, and from them. I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via email at [email protected] or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse!

15:49 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits.

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TRANSCRIPT via Descript and then corrected.. somewhat:

[00:00:40] Peter: Hey everyone. Peter Shankman is with you today. Welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal, the podcast where we talk about ADD, ADHD, Autism, Executive Function Disorder, anything and everything having to do with the neurodiverse brain, we here look at all of those things as gifts, not as curses, and we're thrilled that you're here. I am joined today by someone who I've been talking about improv both in my books and on the podcast and in my courses and things like that. As something that you kind of have to do. And why do I say that? Because improv allows you to focus on improving yourself from the inside out. An ex-girlfriend who used to do improv all the time, and I never really got it. And one day she invited me. She said, just come take class. And look, I was a drama major growing up. I went high school, the whole thing. I took this class and the simple act of having to think inside your own head in real time, massively, massively opened up my brain. and I was a fan, have been a fan ever since. So we're talking to Nathan Minns, who's the founder of https://greenlightimprov.com , a professional training company that cultivates resilience, enhances creativity, and improves communication, all while inspiring connection through improv comedy. He began as an actor in 2015, and he soon realized his Actor training was positively affecting other work skills from creativity and confidence to communications, decision making, things like that. So that's where he created Green Light Improv in 2019. It inspires connection through improv comedy. The company doesn't teach Improv. , but rather uses improv as a tool to other work and life skills. That actually, uh, resonates with me because I think that when I, when I talk to companies, when I go and speak to companies, I like to do a little improv just to get them to sort of break down those barriers that are inherent in business and inherent, I think in our brain. You know, a lot of companies, Nathan, um, more than ever before are focusing on, uh, employee mental health and employee mental wellbeing. And I think that, that you might just be at the right place at the right time type thing. That, so welcome to the podcast. First.

[00:02:44] Nathan: Thank you for having me. I loved your podcast for a long time, so I'm happy to be here.

[00:02:49] Peter: So improv. So, you know, look, I, before I started going and started becoming a fan of it, I always assumed improv was kind of a cult. Um, you had to go, you had to bring 10 friends, you had to buy two drinks, you know, the usual, right? Yeah. And I was quickly disabused of that theory, uh, my first time there. So what got you into it? What got you excited? .

[00:03:08] Nathan: Well, I started performing in 2015 and I saw my first improv show in 2016, and when I saw the show; they were just, their brains were working so fast. I knew that it was something that I wanted to do too. So I went out and auditioned for these two groups that I saw perform, and I felt like I was doing incredibly well. I was making everyone in the room laugh and I was having a blast. And the only small hiccup that came was that it seemed like I was the only person that thought I was doing well. Because, yeah, I didn't get in, so I did not get into either group and I said, okay, I know this is something I wanna do. I've seen improv, I've done theater. So I took a step back. I started taking some classes and trying to put in the work to be able to get up to that level. Then I went back later, I auditioned again, and I did so much better. And in the end, the exact same thing happened. Really? In total? Yeah. In total. I auditioned across the two groups seven times before I got into an improv group.

[00:04:17] Peter: Wow. But you got into it.

[00:04:19] Nathan: I did . I did get into one. Um, but I, I realized there that many people, like what you were describing, see improv as this thing that they would never be able to do. And it's a learnable skill. It's something that you can figure out how to do. There's training to be able to learn it. And I was very naturally bad at it, but I like to think I'm a little bit better these days than when I first started.

[00:04:47] Peter: I love that. Naturally bad at some. Well, being naturally bad at something is the first step to kind of eventually being good at something, right? Yeah, exactly. Tell me about, um, you, you mentioned the, the brain working faster. Everyone's brain working faster in improv. You know, the thing about A D H D is that we're constantly, our brains are constantly working faster and, and while we're thinking one thing, we're making a joke about something else and we're thinking about something else, and you know, like four different things at the same time. And I found that the only place where that doesn't, two places where that doesn't really work well. One is in a relationship, um, when you're not entirely focused on the person. And yeah. The second one I've just discovered recently is in boxing because I'll be thinking, I'll, I'll, I'll be focusing on my punches, I'll be throwing, I'll doing it, and then something clicks in my brain and half a second later I'm four tangents away, uh, you know, wondering whether or not, um, beavers fall in love. And yeah. Next, next thing I know, I've just gotten rocked with a, with a hard right to the head, so that is, uh, something I'm focusing on, but, but talk about from an ADHD perspective or from mental health perspective. Talk about how improv can positively affect that.

[00:06:00] Nathan: Yeah. I, I find that improv is one of the only places that I have gone into that community where the traits of A D H D are often rewarded. So when I'm on stage, I feel very comfortable. I feel everyone's watching me. Of course, I'm performing. But there's something about that heightened feeling that makes me very focused. And also in improv, we have to be fully present in the moment. And I think the stress, almost stress of being on stage helps that helps us to stay focused. And while we're being fully present on stage, we have to be able to come up with a lot of creative ideas very quickly. And discern which ones are good, which ones aren't worth pursuing. And I find that my ADHD is very helpful in allowing me to come up with a lot of different ideas and see what works. So I feel like it is a incredible community where it is the highest percentage of people with ADHD that I have ever been a part of any group.

[00:07:10] Peter: Interesting. Why do you think and and do you think the reason people with neurodiverse brains are drawn to it is because of the speed, is because of the quickness, is because it's, you know, it's, it's like that perfect place for a brain, for brains like ours.

[00:07:22] Nathan: Yeah, I think that it's, it's rewarded. Some of those quick thinking skills are rewarded where it may not be rewarded in the corporate sphere, where we often do more monotonous kind of tasks in 80, in, in improv. we're doing a lot of different things and we have to come up with a lot of different ideas. So I definitely think that, um, that's a, that's a solid reason why we're drawn to improv.

[00:07:51] Peter: Interesting. Tell me about how you're feeling when you're on stage. I mean, are you getting. . You know, when I get off the stage after a keynote, I'm, I'm just a wash with dopamine. Right. Do you have that same sort of feeling? Is that, is that one of the reasons you, you keep doing it?

[00:08:03] Nathan: Yeah. It, it's an incredible high being on stage. I now feel more comfortable on stage when I don't know what I'm about to say next . And in improv than when I'm in a play, or I'm doing a keynote, something like that. I feel very comfortable. Um, when I just, I don't have a script and I can just float along with it. I find I'm incredibly focused. Yeah.

[00:08:29] Peter: That's very cool. Um, Where do you, uh, see it taking you? I mean, you're, you're working, what kind of companies and, and groups of people are you working with now in, in the company? And tell us about what the company's doing.

[00:08:42] Nathan: Yeah, so I'm 24 right now and I started the company in 2019 in my senior year of college at Ohio State. And I found, at the very beginning that I found that working with colleges and universities, uh, worked very well. That has stayed something that's pretty consistent working with a lot of colleges, uh, university programs. Now we're expanding into more of the corporate sphere, small business sphere, non-university, university sphere. Um, I see it growing into a place where we can have, uh, a variety of facilitators doing this work at, at the same time, we can have the basis of the curriculum too, but I think that improv can be used for so many different things that we can start to have different branches from, uh, a law school, a social worker school and, and any other, any other groups that we think can really benefit from this kind of training.

[00:09:44] Peter: Very, very cool. Talk about one of your, uh, talk about someone who came in with sort of that same attitude I did the first time. Oh, this is, this is bs, whatever. And talk about that moment when they sort of got it and you saw, you saw the change.

[00:09:59] Nathan: So I saw, I went into one group. There were 40 people, and I started my initial talk. It's about, usually the workshops are about 10 minutes of me talking at the beginning. And then the entire rest of the workshop is exercise debrief. And in the exercise we're doing paired exercises for about half the time and groups of four to six for the rest of the time. So I start this 10 minute talk of just what is improv? How are we going to use it today? Why are we doing this? And about 30 seconds into this talk, someone raises their hands, think, okay, this, this isn't typically a time when people raise their hands, . Um, I said, Oh, ok- , what would you like to say? And there was this woman, she was probably around 60 or 70, and she said, Nathan, I just wanna let you know that we are all introverts and we're gonna hate this. Ha ha. And I was like, I appreciate your honesty,., thank you for telling me that. It's nice to see where, where our starting point is. And in that workshop I knew; okay, this might be a tougher audience than my typical workshop, but as we started getting going, I told her, let's just give it 10 minutes. Just give it a little bit of time and we'll see what happens. Within 30 minutes maybe, she was volunteering in front of the entire group, which isn't a thing we force anyone. , but we just, I asked would anyone like to share or represent the group? And she started, started doing it because I, I think they realized that this isn't an activity that's only for extroverts or, um, only for people who like to speak up all the time. Um, this is an, an activity that we, anyone can do, we can use it for, for any group. Yeah. And they can do something and have fun and get something out of it.

[00:12:07] Peter: You know what always interests me, the the introvert concept is interesting because a lot of people with neurodiverse brains are what you might call the most introverted extrovert you'll ever meet. In the respect that, you know, I love being on stage, I love speaking. I love doing that because it's me to many. Yeah. Right. But if it's me to a few, like at dinner party or whatever, I hate everything about that. Hmm. Right. You know, I, I, I, I love being on stage talking to thousands of people, or I love one-on-one, you know, having dinner with a friend or whatever. But the concept of, of, uh, you know, sitting with her in a room with eight people where we all have to make small talk. , you know, I'll be in the second bedroom playing with the cat. And so I think that one of the keys about improv is that it is a small group of people talking to each other, but in essence talking to an audience.

[00:12:52] Nathan: Yeah. And in improv it is very much a conversation with the audience, not in the way that we actually expect the audience to talk to us through the performance. But when we're, because in improv, just so we're all on the same page, it is often when five to six actors get on stage, they ask for a single word, and they use that word to inspire a variety of scenes that have never been done before. Never been written before, and will likely never be done again. So something that that we find is that we have to create all of those scenes live and we can use what the audience is giving us all, whenever they laugh, we can say, okay, that is a, a button that we just pressed. Right. That something was funny there. Let's dig into that.

[00:13:42] Peter: That's really smart because you're, you're listening to the audience and you're, you're, you're letting them give you the cues not even realizing they're doing it.

[00:13:48] Nathan: Exactly. Yeah. It, we're not performing in a vacuum. We're not writing in a vacuum, so it's a nice way to, to have a conversation on that kind of scale.

[00:13:57] Peter: It's interesting cause that's what people who understand their neurodiverse brands tend to do is they, they tend to, uh, engineer the conversation in the respect that I can go in and start talking about something with someone knowing full well that I'm leading them, uh, down a path that I want to go to get to somewhere I wanna talk about, but making it seem like it's their idea.

[00:14:16] Nathan: Yeah. And, and in improv, you know, we, we all have, I have a ton of ideas when I'm on stage, my scene partner has a ton of ideas and that's where the connection happens. Because in improv we're not doing just what I'm thinking. We're not doing just what they're thinking. The ideas very much meld together, and that's much of the basis of how we use it for connecting and trust building. Because improv is a team sport. It's not like standup where it's just you on stage. You win and lose as a team.

[00:14:53] Peter: Totally. How can people find out more about, about you and about, uh, Green Light Improv?

[00:14:58] Nathan: You can go to https://greenlightimprov.com

[00:15:02] Peter: I love it. I love it. Nathan, thank you so much for taking the time today to be on Faster Than Normal. Really appreciate it. Improv, I think, is the subject that we, we should touch on again. Um, I think, I think it, it, it is an underrated tool for those with Neurodiverse brains; so I really appreciate you being here, man. We'll have you back. For sure.

[00:15:17] Nathan: Thank you for having me!

[00:15:18] Peter: Guys, as always, we wanna hear what you think! Shoot me an email, peter @shankman.com. Let me know about a guest that you think might be great on the show. Uh, we'd love to know. You could follow us on all the socials and I'm gonna give you all a little, uh, piece of secret news that haven't really announced yet. Children's book .Coming in February. I'll leave it at that. Thanks for listening. We'll see you guys next week here on Faster Than Normal.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at shankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week!

Welcome back and thanks so much for staying with us here in 2023! So today we're catching up with our former guest, Sharon Pope. [her first interview focusing on Shelpful and Instant Human Accountability can be heard HERE]. Sharon is the co-founder and CEO of Shelpful, the instant accountability service that pairs you with a real-human buddy to help you build good habits (they nudge you and hold you to big habits like getting exercise, or small tasks like taking out the trash on time). Prior to starting shelpful, Sharon was a startup executive for 15 years, running marketing and product. She advised startups at the famous startup accelerator, Y Combinator, and was Chief Marketing Officer at ZeroDown, Green Dot (NYSE: GDOT), GoBank and Loopt. Prior to that she managed PR and content for a range of tech companies at leading San Francisco-based PR agencies. Today we welcome back to talk about how her super helpful company Shelpful has changed, if she's still using exercise as medicine, and what new important things she has learned since our visit last year. Happy New Year! Enjoy!

In this episode Peter and Sharon Pope discuss:

00:40 - Thank you so much for listening and for subscribing!

00:50 - Intro and welcome back Sharon Pope!

01:48 - Since our last visit HERE, she has been up to a lot! Let's talk about rituals-

02:17 - On dealing with your tasks, habits, routines

02:45 - About your brain and habit formation

03:41 - A note on keeping perspective and overwhelm

04:05 - On becoming a certified habit coach

05:43 - What can we do right away to begin feeling a sense of accomplishment of achieving a goal?

08:18 - What is it with people start/stopping on very specific dates? Does that even work?

09:15 - On bursts of motivation and will power

10:52 - What have you learned that might surprise people in regards to accountability and habits?

11:00 - ADHD getting small things done, asking for help when you need to, and not feeling bad

13:28 - How can people find more about you?

Web: www.SHELPFUL.com

Socials: @shelpful on Twitter INSTA Facebook & TikTok

13:39 - A little more on how Shelpful works. Ref: Oak Journal and method

14:38 - Thank you Sharon!

Guys, as always thanks so much for subscribing! Faster Than Normal is for YOU! We want to know what you'd like to hear! Do you have a cool friend with a great story? We'd love to learn about, and from them. I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via email at [email protected] or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse!

15:00 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits.

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TRANSCRIPT via Descript and then corrected.. somewhat: [00:00:40] Peter: Hey everyone. Welcome back to Faster Than Normal. My name is Peter Shankman. I am thrilled that you're here for another episode. We are talking again to a recurring visitor, Sharon Pope. Who was on about two or so years ago runs a company called Shelpful, and I love the concept. It's the instant accountability service that pairs you with a real human buddy to help you build good habits, like big habits like getting exercise or small habits like taking out the trash on time. I could use one to remember to walk my dog, but actually we can do that too. the dog. The dog reminds me to do that. I could, I could use my other thing, but, um, awesome. You are, I mean, Sharon, Sharon has tons and tons of, of awesome background. We've had her on before. Um, she ran marketing products. She was a, she, she advised startups at Y Combinator. She worked at zero down Green dot GoBank Loops. She managed PR back in the.com boom for a bunch of tech companies. So she's, she's been around the block quite a few times. So Sharon, welcome. At the beginning of the year here, 2023. Tell us what's been going on in the world of she and, and, and what, what new and interesting things you're doing and how, more importantly, how can our listeners take away some advice on building good habits, good rituals, forget about resolutions, let's talk about rituals.

[00:02:00] Sharon: Yeah. Resolutions, I feel like is the hot topic right now, but it's really about those big goals that I think people try to set. Right. Um, and we at Shelpful a lot of that, right? So Shelpful obviously the place where people can go to get support on whatever they're trying to get done. So tasks or habits, routines. Um, and so we often have people come in and say, I want to do X, Y, z. You know, like a giant list of things and a whole overhaul. And our, our response is always, you know, let's start smaller. Um, and not just because. That helps in a text message conversation or in a workshop setting, which is often how we're helping people. But it's because the research proves it out, right? So you know, the actual habit formation that happens in your brain happens when you feel successful. And if you have these giant goals that you set that are almost unachievable, then after a few days you, your brain, literally, Push against the habit because it's not feeling successful and doing it. So we like to have people really lower the bar, not because they're lazy, but because in lowering the bar, you're actually setting yourself up to feel successful, number one and number two to do the habit the next time. So whatever it is that you're trying to do, whether it's. You know, get movement in every morning. Wake up when your alarm goes off, do gratitude, take your dog for a longer walk, . Um, all these things are, are habits, and if you can work on wiring them in, you know, it, it can help, it can help you feel more successful the whole year instead of just, I don't know, the first month of the year, for instance.

[00:03:41] Peter: So, so basically what we're looking at here really is the concept of eating the elephant one bite at a time.

[00:03:47] Sharon: Oh yeah. I think that's a great analogy. I think, and it's, it's, I think people often get, stir that analogy up when you're talking about tackling a big thing. because it's, it's what seems logical to get it done piece by piece. But what's been really enlightening for me as I I, so I became an actual certified habit coach in this path after starting Shelpful to solve my own problem, which was feeling completely overwhelmed with everyday stuff, right? The little things would just follow from my list, like getting movement and getting fresh air. Yeah, like you mentioned, taking my dog for a very long walk instead of just like having go to the bathroom. All these things that were important to my self-care were just falling off the list. So completely geeked out on habits became a sort of a habit coach through Dr. BJ Fogg who wrote the book Tiny Habits, um, and is kind of one of the preeminent. Behavioral scientists in the field, his research backs this up, that if you shrink something down to tiny, tiny, tiny, not only are you making it harder to not do, but you, it's that feeling of success from that small, small action is what wires the habit into your brain. So that's something we spend a lot of time. We have kind of a workshop now that we try to teach people those skills of feeling successful for the smallest thing. Cause it actually is a skill. You kind of have to learn that and, and especially for an ADHD'er who's very comfortable and a shame spiral situation. Yeah. I think that it, it's, it's hard to accept that the smallest version is okay, but that it's not only the reality and something that would be helpful for self-compassion, but the research backs it up!

[00:05:26] Peter: Yeah, no question about it. So tell us about, tell us a little more about that, because the, the premise of, you know, oh, it's the new year, we lose 30 pounds in January. No, you're freaking not. Right, right. You know, we, we, let's, let's be honest. No, you're not. Um, so you have to sort of start at the beginning. Um, what can people do just off the top of their heads, you know, what can we do right, right away, um, to sort of give us a little confidence that we can achieve these goals.

[00:05:50] Sharon: Sure, and let's, let's play out your example, right? So if the big goal is to lose 30 pounds or, um, improve your health, then I think the first step would be, first of all, trying to think of an ongoing habit you can work on that you actually want to do. So if you love. Paddle boarding, then maybe pick a habit, like an exercise that you wanna do regularly that helps improve your balance, that would help you with that habit or that that activity that you really, really love, um, or that you're cooking more. If you love to cook, then maybe we're working on a habit that involves meal planning or um, meal prep on Sundays. Things that you genuinely want to do because like we, we talked about, we're working on kind of hacking the brain and so we have to like the thing. That's why bad habits are formed too, because cookies are delicious and and I love them, then I can form that habit. So picking something you really want to do, I think is key. And it might sound obvious, but you know, starting with box jumping, if that's not your thing, is probably not the way to go. Right. Um, And then the second step is making it super, super small. So, um, instead of, I'm gonna work out for 20 minutes every morning, there's, we can make it tiny. Like, after I walk outta the bathroom, I'm gonna put on one walking shoe. Or after I put my toothbrush back in the cup, I'm gonna turn on my Peloton. Right. Literally just, and that's it. And that's, and, and then we actually say the hack is to celebrate that small thing. Because on the craziest busy day, maybe sometimes you'll try on the Peloton. and literally have to just walk away from it. But you can still say you did your habit. Yep. Um, and so that's, I mean, those are the key things is, is making it smaller and attaching it to something you already do. So I mentioned like putting your toothbrush away. This is something that, um, is an existing habit so we can kind of hack the brain a little bit to, to stack those habits together. Right? So just like when I walk through the door as an adult, my hand goes behind me to pull it shut. That's what we're kind of trying to create is this habit, muscle memory. By making it small, by making it part of your existing routine. Right. That can help you form that. And th this is the type of thing that I would define as success, Peter, that if you told me that you turn your Peloton on every day after you put your toothbrush away, I would say that's something to celebrate. I would have no follow up question that I, I assume that some days you would've gotten the workout in too.

[00:08:08] Peter: Right. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. You know, it's interesting I think that, that people tie and I, I'd be curious your, your opinion on this. People tend to tie. Whether it's resolutions or rituals, to specific dates like, oh, dry January, or mm-hmm. , or, um, you know what, whatever, whatever those are, uh, the month before Memorial Day to get in shape. But why does it have to be tied to something? Why can't you arbitrate? I mean, when I quit smoking back in 2015 mm-hmm. , I mean, I quit years and years before that, but every once in a while I'd bum one, but the last time I had an actual, honestly got cigarette was March, fif March 17th, 2015. I just, I. no tie to that date whatsoever, I'd say, you know what? Screw it. I'm done.

[00:08:49] Sharon: Had a good, had a good St. Patrick's Day, and you're done.

[00:08:52] Peter: Yeah. Why is it so hard to just go to that, to go say, you know what? I wanna do something and make that change today, but, oh, you know what? I'll do it in February. I'll do it March 1st. Why? Why are we so stuck on tying it to something?

[00:09:07] Sharon: Yeah, I, I think that, I mean, in smoking obviously has other addiction elements that I'm certainly not an expert on, but I think I can definitely relate to this Diet starts Monday mentality or, you know, big nears resolution, those things. And I think it, it's related to our tendency to have these bursts of motivation and willpower, which don't sustain, like you can kind of map it, right. You can see. Okay. Big burst of motivation and willpower, especially for an adhd, right? These things can't be dependent upon. So we have these moments where we kind of, um, we put a lot of our kind of motivation eggs in one basket of, okay, this is gonna happen. I'm doing it big, go big, go home. Never say die, right? Keep up the streak. All these things. And our culture. Our culture stokes this, it it, it makes us feel like it has to be all or nothing, which is why I think we have to put a start date on it. But what we always, I mean, what we work with people on, and as you know, we have, we kind of have our habit coaching, but we also have these accountability buddies that you text with. And the big part of what. I've seen from our members is that, start today with something small. Celebrate your small successes, and that adds up to something big. And if, if it's small enough, you can always start today. Usually, you know, like unless it's something that depends on you getting some piece of equipment or something you have to get from your Amazon order. But generally you could start if it's, if you make it small enough, you can start today. And if you can't. It's probably a sign that you're not starting small enough.

[00:10:43] Peter: Yeah, no, that's a really, really good answer. That's a really good answer. What else have you learned, um, as you've been going through? So, so you've been running the company now for a few years. What, what else have you learned? What would you, what would surprise people, um, about whether it's habits or about whether it's accountability? .

[00:10:59] Sharon: Yeah. We started this company in early 2021 as a response to my own frustration. And I, I've obviously, through that journey, I've found out or was finally diagnosed with my own adhd, which explained why so many people with ADHD were signing up for our service. Um, and I think, I think the main thing, it's, it's been interesting. I have, I've had this parallel path of learning a lot about myself and learning a lot kind of what, what support needs to exist in the world? Um, on my own track, I think being able to instantly see when I launched this service that I wasn't alone, that a lot of people felt a lack of support on the little things in life. Just felt like they were completely alone in these tasks of taking care of everyone in their life and taking care of work, but not taking care of themselves. It was, I wasn't alone in that. Which for me was not only enlightening and exciting from a business perspective, but just made me feel this immediate sense of community and and gratitude to be able to help people just like me. Yeah, and I think the other thing I've really learned is, As I, I've had this parallel path of understanding about my ADHD as I've been helping people with adhd and I've found it transformative. So the advice I just spat out on starting small and not falling to the shame spiral, that was advice I would not have been taking two years ago. And so I've had this kind of personal journey of being able. to number one, name a specific thing as adhd, like, I didn't pay that bill. I have adhd. I'm not a horrible person. , let me reach, let me, you know, I, I have a shelter. That's our, that's our name for an accountability buddy. So I, I literally texted her last night like, please, please, please make me cancel this fitness subscription that I haven't used and I like, and they're making me call, which is complete paralysis for me, of course. And so instead of blaming myself and being like, I suck as a person because I can't pick up the phone and cancel subscription, I mean, you know, you, I'm sure you can completely relate to this and a lot of people can, someone making me call them is like, oh, the worst thing in the world, the literal, worst thing in the world. Like I, I'd rather start a company. I'd rather learn to fly a plane , like there's a million things I'd rather do than c all a person to cancel something. Right. So I, I have, I've had this, I think, journey of self-compassion that I, I'm accepting support, that I know I need help on little things, and I'm not a bad person for that.

[00:13:23] Peter: Yeah. I love it. I love it. Very cool. How could people find you?

[00:13:30] Sharon: Yeah, we are at www.Shelpful.com S H E L P F U L. Rhymes with helpful. Um, and we have all sorts of services you can find there. Our most popular thing is that one-on-one work with your own real human buddy who will remind you of your crap , basically, and help support you on any habits or tasks you're trying to get done. But we also have groups where you can be put in a group with four, with three other people and work on the same thing. So we have, we actually have folks with adhd. Um, we have groups, people working on all trying to get movement in, drink more water, anything under the sun, and we actually have some specialties. Um, in partnership, there's a company called Oak Journal that we're partnering with, and they have this kind of daily method where you do gratitude every day and set your top priorities every day. So groups are kind of going through that process together so they can stay on track and work toward bigger goals. So that's been really fun to do as well.

[00:14:26] Peter: Very cool. Well, Sharon, thank you as always for joining us at Faster Than Normal. I love it when you come by. It's great to hear from you. Glad things are going well, and we'll have you on again towards the end of the year. We'll see how we're doing with our, our, our, our rituals.

[00:14:37] Sharon: Thanks for having me Peter.

[00:14:38] Peter: All right, guys, as always, listening to Faster Than Normal. We love that you love us. Have any ideas for great guests like Sharon, let us know. Shoot me an email [email protected] we'd love to include, and we will see you with another episode next week. Stay safe, stay happy. Bye bye :)

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at shankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week!

Professor Esme Fuller-Thomson is cross-appointed to the Faculties of Social Work, Medicine, and Nursing at the University of Toronto. She is also Director of the Institute for Life Course & Aging. She has published more than 170 articles in peer-reviewed journals including the New England Journal of Medicine, The Lancet, and Cancer. Her research examines ADHD and mental health, the association between early adversities and adult physical and health outcomes, and disparities in health. She has recently been focused on resilience and flourishing mental health. Her work has widely cited in the media including the New York Times, Forbes, Wall Street Journal, Time Magazine and CNN. We're thrilled to welcome her back and hear about her latest research in our last episode of 2022. Thank you for joining us all year long! We hope you have a happy, healthy and safe holiday season, everyone. Enjoy!

In this episode Peter and Professor Esme Fuller-Thomson discuss:

01:20 - Thank you so much for listening and for subscribing!

01:15 - Intro and welcome back Dr. Esme Fuller-Thomson!

01:57 - Since our last visit HERE, she has completed some new research on Anxiety and ADHD

03:00 - Women with ADHD were 5x more prone to anxiety, compared to women without ADHD

04:20 - What is the percentage of researchers who study ADHD and Anxiety?

05:45 - On budget, finance and anxiety + ADHD

07:17 - Are you one of the people perhaps more at risk for anxiety? Ref: Research Aug. 31, 2021

08:00 - ADHD and finding moderation with controlled substances/impulse control

09:40 - And now for the new good news!

11:00 - Ref: Corey Keys at Emory University and his three pillars of "Excellent Mental Health"

13:00 - More than 2 out of 5 are flourishing w/ excellent mental health; how do we get more of us here?

15:12 - On keeping perspective and not hyper-focusing on the bad stuff.

17:25 - A look at the factors in the study of those flourishing with ADHD

18:29 - 300 years ago, exercise was a mandatory part our daily life because we needed it to simply exist

19:40 - People who use spirituality to cope w/ their day to day troubles were much more likely to be in complete mental health.

20:43 - Point | Counterpoint on relationships and marriage

21:17 - Happiness and chronic pain

22:00 - Remember, just a few years ago it was still rare for Women to get an ADHD diagnosis

23:56 - What is CBT and can it be helpful? Ref: Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

00:00 - How can people find more about you? Just type in Fuller-Thompson + ADHD, HERE on Google Scholar, or via https://socialwork.utoronto.ca/profiles/esme-fuller-thomson/

25:00 - Thank you Esme!

25:18 - "Thank you Peter for what you do for the whole community of people with ADHD. We all appreciate it!!"

25:28 - The Faster Than Normal book is still being printed, and this is awesome, THANK YOU and I'm so happy it's helping!!!!

26:07 - Happy Holidays!!

Guys, as always thanks so much for subscribing! Faster Than Normal is for YOU! We want to know what you'd like to hear! Do you have a cool friend with a great story? We'd love to learn about, and from them. I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via email at [email protected] or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse!

26:35 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits.

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TRANSCRIPT via Descript and then corrected.. somewhat: [00:00:40] Peter: High, high, high. Hope you're well. This will probably be last episode will be recorded before Christmas and the holiday break. I hope that you are all going somewhere warm or if. You are doing something that keeps you busy or maybe going somewhere cold if you live in a warm area right now, like to all my friends in Australia anyway, I'm not, I'm in New York City, it's 12 degrees or some crap like that. Um, I am getting outta here later in the week for about a week and, and gonna bury my head in the sand somewhere warm. So that's nice. Anyway, we have a g returning guest. We. Esme. Okay, I gotta stop you right here. Cause first of all, you understand I love this person. This person is one of the few people who's out there doing hardcore research on girls, women, and adhd. So I want to welcome back Esme Fuller Thompson, Dr. Esme Fuller Thompson. She's an incredible guest. We had her right, we think about God two or three years ago, I think it was pre pandemic. So it's wonderful to have you back as we welcome and you got tons of new stuff to talk about.

[00:01:36] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: Absolutely. And some of it is really positive because last time I came it was all about the negatives. And I still have some, I remember. Yeah. But I promised you that I had in the works, um, some research on flourishing among h adhd. So do you wanna start with the bad stuff or the good stuff? Which one?

[00:01:52] Peter: Let's get the bad stuff outta the way.

[00:01:54] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: Okay, so, um, when I was with you, which I think was about two years ago, we were talking a lot about women with h ADHD which is dear to my heart. Um, I think it's a neglected population. People really haven't been looking at it, but we, we, in that time we talked about, um, depression and suicidality. But we didn't really know very much about anxiety. So I worked on a paper that came out, um, uh, almost a year ago on generalized anxiety disorder among A D H D and life. It, it's not too surprising that the rates are higher among people, um, with adhd cause life is anxiety producing because things are sometimes quite chaotic, right? So yes, indeed. Um, We found that people with A D H D had four times higher odds of anxiety disorders compared to their peers without

[00:02:52] Peter: Wow. Four times higher odds of anxiety disorders when you have ADHD. Wow.

[00:02:57] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: Yes. Yeah, so I mean, I was expecting maybe double, but. Four times and it's women. Insane. Were even worse. Women, women with a adhd were five times compared to women without h adhd. Now these are young, relatively young, like 20 to 39 year olds. And um, ooh, you know, that, that, that's hard. It's hard to, to manage. Uh, that doesn't mean that they actually have it necessarily at this moment, but they've had anxiety disorders. So some have overcome it, but, but it's, um, it's a significant barrier that, that a lot of people with a d h ADHD have to go through. And as I said, women have, um, a harder time with it even than men, even though women in general have higher anxiety., Women with ADHD proportionately are doing worse than women without ADHD compared to men with ADHD versus men without, so interesting. It's, it's, uh, it's a real issue and I think it's neglected. I don't think, I think the other behaviors, you know, the, the depression and substance abuse, those ones tend to get more attention, but anxiety can be crippling. And I think we need to think about it as, as clinicians and also as as people with A D H D and, and also people who love people with A D H D, that keeping an eye on that anxiety and thinking about interventions to help with it because there are some really good interventions.

[00:04:18] Peter: I know for a lot of people who are getting help with A D H D and they're getting help, uh, you know, whether it's medication, whether it's, uh, D B T or whatever, you know, there are a lot of. What do you think the percentage of of psychologists or or therapists are that put together the link between ADHD and anxiety?

[00:04:38] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: Well, certainly I know with, um, some of my research on women and other people's research that women are much less likely to get the correct diagnosis and Right. So they might have, they, so sometimes they might be that anxiety or the depression or flagged and they haven't put it together that it's A D H D. If people are brought in young, uh, be maybe because of school related stuff for A D H D, they may not be screening for, um, depression or anxiety. So it's, I what I, my plug is if you have people presenting with anxiety and depression, think about A D H D. If you have, um, have patients or clients with a D H D think about depression and anxiety. Not that everybody has it, and we'll get the good news at the end. But it is more, much more likely to occur. And among those with, uh, among women are more vulnerable than men. But there's other things too. Um, low income is very anxiety producing, whether you have ADHD or not.

[00:05:40] Peter: Wondering, and I completely, I mean that, that's a given. There's no question about that.

[00:05:43] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: Absolutely. But, People with A D H D may have harder time managing budgets and, and making sure that the money makes it all the way through to the end of the month. And so that, that's very anxiety producing. So now going from middle class to upper class, that doesn't make a huge difference. But being really close to the line and not having enough to make ends meet is desperately anxiety Produc. Yep.

[00:06:11] Peter: I believe it. And what's interesting is that I think, you know, especially now in this sort of worldwide financial crisis we're in, you know, that certainly doesn't help. It's, it's tough enough when, when we're all doing moderately well,

[00:06:22] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: Yes. Yeah. So, uh, I, now, my, I should have comment that my research is based on, uh, representative samples, but before the pandemic, right? So everybody got more anxious, more depressed, and more, you know, during the depress the, um, pandemic and being locked at home is. Great for people who like a lot of the stimulation and activities. So I'm guessing that these estimates are perhaps, um, underestimates of the magnitude of the problem in probably, yeah. The pandemic. So I, I, as I said, there'll be a while before we get that kind of information out, but it seems logical to think it's not getting better anyway.

[00:07:06] Peter: Hmm. Unreal. Unreal. , but you said you had good news.

[00:07:11] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: All right, well let me just finish the other people at risk, cuz those are kind of Okay. More, more bad news. Let's go over that. More bad news. Okay. Um, so the, uh, people who had more close relationships were much less likely to have anxiety. So almost every study I've done in ADHD, social support, having a confidant, having, uh, a spouse on your side. All of those things are really, really protective. So, um, the idea of building and building a so social support network and reaching out to that network and investing in it really helps on all those fronts. Um, . And then the, uh, the other negative news in August in 2021, I published on substance use disorder. And we touched on this briefly, I think two years ago when we talked about it, but some people, uh, uh, we found that people with A D H D were much more likely to have had a substance use disorder at some point in their life. And we're looking at 20 to 39 year olds and. Almost half had a substance use disorder. I don't think that'll be too surprising to you having talked with so many of your guests, but Yeah, not at all. So the issue is, I mean, some people are able to consume in moderation, but people with A D H D are probably many of them. find Moderation a hard piece. It's kind of an all nothing piece.

[00:08:35] Peter: People are able to, people with ADHD are some are able to consume with, what'd you say?

[00:08:39] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: With moderation? Say, oh, I'll just have a glass. But that's,

[00:08:42] Peter: why are you, why are you making up words? I've never heard this word. Moderation. What is that?

[00:08:48] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: So my point is that, um, among people with substance use issues and a D H D and impulse control issues, perhaps abstinence is a good strategy. Not, you know, some people can do it without the abstinence kind of piece, but, um, You know, it, it can get you into, if you have impulse control and drinking and drink, this is all types, uh, it's higher for everything, cannabis, uh, heavy drugs and alcohol. So, um, generally the. The idea is that, uh, A D H D makes it harder to manage, uh, substances in general and makes you more vulnerable to, um, addictions. So that makes perfect sense. Yeah, totally makes sense. So those are the bad news, but can I get to the good news? Can I share with you,

[00:09:39] Peter: for God's sake? Yes.

[00:09:40] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: After all of this. Okay. So, So, uh, you know, I'm, I'm more than a quarter century into my career, and so I, I have spent the first 20 some years looking at negative things, depression, anxiety, um, uh, suicidality, and, you know, that's a bit of a Debbie Downer. When you go to parties and you say, oh, what do you do? I'm looking at depression, anxiety, thanks, geez. But, and then, but it's a little bit of. Whack-a-Mole Pro, uh, uh, problems, you know, that little kid's game where it's politics of course. Yeah. Very, uh, politically incorrect, where just spit poor moles on the head and yeah, one goes down and the other pops up. So, you know, here I am, I'm like, okay, I'm focusing on say A D H D and anxiety. And so, you know, you think about interventions and many really good interventions and maybe anxiety goes down, but depression pops up or maybe depression goes down and substance abuse pops up. So, um, I, I started thinking, well, I need to really look at it holistically. And if I said to you, how are you doing today? And you said, I'm not suicidal. Well, that's not really where we want you to be. We want you to be flourishing, right? So, um, I started looking around and there's an amazing researcher at Emory University called Corey Keys, and he came up with this concept. Excellent mental health. So when I ask you what does mental health mean to you? Not just it's, it's the absence of mental illness. Sure. But that's not really enough. Just not being suicidal or not being depressed. It's really more than that. So his idea has, Three pillars. The first one is, no mental illness in the past year. No substance dependence, no um, depression, no anxiety, no bipolar, and no serious suicidal thought. So that's a great place that's getting you to, that's pillar one is getting you to neutral, which is great. Um, and certainly if people are, are, are, have any of those issues, getting them out of that is, is your first plan as a clinician or as a family member. But then, then pillar two. How often in the last month have you been happy? And you have to say every day or almost every day. Like if you're just happy twice a week, it doesn't make it. And they also ask how, how often you are satisfied with your life and you have to be daily or almost daily. So you can see that one of you have to be at least one of these. So pillar two is happy or satisfied on an almost daily level. So no mental illness and you're happy and satisfied. And then pillar three is about psychological wellbeing and social wellbeing. I have warm and supportive relationships. Life is getting better for peace pull. Like me, I like most parts of my personality. And in the last month you have to agree to the majority of those six of the 11 questions. at least, uh, daily or almost daily. You have to agree to that. So this is really, really, really high, right? You're not mentally ill. You have no substance dependence, you have no suicidal thoughts. You're happy and or satisfied, and you have warm and you, you have great social or psych and or psychological wellbeing. Like, isn't this what we're hoping for?

[00:12:54] Peter: Yeah, one would think,

[00:12:56] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: all right, so among those with ADHD, this is a really, really high bar. More than two and five are flourishing, are absolutely flourishing, are hitting this incredibly high bar.

[00:13:12] Peter: Interesting, interesting. That's more than two and okay. . I wouldn't, I would not have thought that ,

[00:13:20] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: neither would I. And in fact, when I talk to anybody else, they all say, oh no, it's gotta be 10% or something like that. But, and you know, some of the blame is to us who are researchers, cuz we've just focused on the negatives. Like I started the conversation with, but without looking at, well there are some people who are completely free of mental illness and are flourishing, and why don't we spend more time thinking about who those people are and how they got there and how can we help more people get to that point.

[00:13:51] Peter: Really, really interesting thoughts. I, you know, it's interesting. I think that a lot of, and I mean, look, I, I'm not the doctor you are, but I think there's, I wonder if a part of the reason that people with A D H D tend to find themselves in positive spaces more often is because, , we're very, very good at changing the subject. In other words, we're in a bad mood for as long as that bad mood can hold our attention. .

[00:14:16] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: Okay, well, so fine. But, but at least, at least, uh, almost daily in the past month, uh, past week, months, uh, you have to have been happy. So you're saying the, it's the, uh,

[00:14:28] Peter: well, cause you have, you have to be happy 24 7. I mean, no one's happy.

No, no,

[00:14:32] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: no, no. You have, just have to have happy. Right. Yeah. Or you have, you have happy moments. Oh, well then, now I have to admit that people with a d, ADHD have a much lower rate than people without H adhd. But I, my, what I was focusing on, and I think, I think partly as we said, because we do all this negative research about all the negatives, people feel that they are, they don't have in front of them our potential to flourish. That they, you know, that, that that is not a trajectory for them. And I'm saying, wow, many, many, many people are getting to that incredibly high level of functioning and just, you know, life is good.

[00:15:12] Peter: Yeah. It's really, you know, it's fascinating. I think that that, you know, we spend a lot of time complaining. Oh, this is this and this. I mean, we got on the phone today, Peter, how you been? Oh my God, these last six months. You know, but, but in retrospect it's not bad. It's, there's day-to-day annoyances in the minutiae, but. , I'm here. I have my health. I'm, I'm, I'm my kid's doing well, you know, all those kinda things. I'm happy and, and I think that I at least look. Again, I'm, I'm looking at a sample of, of one or maybe two here, but I think that A D H D helps you stay happy because there's constantly something exciting. Something shiny just over the next hill. I know it sounds ridiculous.

[00:15:59] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: No, but life is, I mean, let's be honest, it's fun to hang around with people with adhd, life, Ising. Right?

[00:16:06] Peter: Well, it's fun to hang around with people with adhd as long as those people with ADHD are on the right path or understand their path. I think that that there have been times when I've hung out with people who were probably undiagnosed adhd. You know, I take, I, I, I turn my head for a second. I look back and everyone's railing fat lines of cocaine. So I think that ADHD does have some negatives there in terms of the fun of hanging out with them. But yes, I mean, you know, my, my girlfriend tells me constantly that the reason, one of the reasons she, she, she loves hanging out is she never knows what's gonna happen next. You know, we're, we're sitting in a cafe one day and the next day we're flying somewhere because I read an article about a waterpark or whatever. So I think. You know, you have to, you have to sort of know yourself, but yes, I totally get that.

[00:16:53] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: Mm-hmm. , so, so again, this was based on a sample, a representative sample of Canadians prior to the pandemic. So I'm pretty confident that the way that data was gathered, it's a really solid national study. So I'm, I'm, I'm confident with those numbers. But I wanted to talk a little bit about what was a hindrance or a help. Apparently I looked at what, what we call the factors associated with A D H D. So what are the characteristics of those, sorry, factors associated with flourishing among those with A D H D. Okay. And so, alright, right, let's just talk about it.

Physical activity. I know this is one of your things. If you were pH physically active, they were four times more likely to be in the state of flourishing four times.

[00:17:40] Peter: I'm sorry that that's just a, that's just duh. Of course you, you, you, you box for an hour. You go for a run, you're chock full of do you're high as a kite. Of course you're gonna be happier and at the very least you're gonna be happier. Cause, cause it's over, You did it,

[00:17:54] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: but our, our lifestyle is not conducive to exercise. It's an effort. It's an organi. You have to be organized, you have to get out, you have to do exercise. The, the way you know modern life is it's easier to sit on your couch and it's hard to get that momentum to get up and out, but, Boy, oh boy. Four times the odds. This is, this is a winner. do not pass Go without exercise. Right.

[00:18:21] Peter: Well, you know what's interesting and that brings up a whole nother series of, of questions. One of the reasons that A D H D you might argue, and again, uh, this could be an argument. One of the reasons a d ADHD has flourished in the past a hundred years, um, is because 300 years ago, 400 years ago, exercise was part of our daily life because we needed to exist. Right. We exercised cause we'd exercise, we wouldn't catch. The, the, the, the, the, the Saber tooth tiger and have dinner. Right? And then we discovered farming, and then we realized we didn't have to walk so much. So the the premise of, you know, having all your food delivered by a messenger, by a, by a, by a GrubHub, um, that's a relatively new concept for our brains. Our brains are, are very, very slow creatures. So that, that's a very, very big part of it. You know, I would be willing to argue that that ADHD or, you know, People were probably a bit happier back then because they had to exercise, they had to work out, or they didn't exist.

[00:19:09] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: Yeah, absolutely. So now it's an effort you have to put . Structured in your day that you're gonna get to exercise. But this is, you know, I almost never see odds this high, like do this four times. You know, usually something improves it maybe 20%. If you're really, really lucky, it doubles it. But four times. Wow. This is a keeper for sure. You know? Now. Um, the other thing that was really interesting, and I haven't done much research on it, but um, I'd love to do more people who use spirituality to cope with their day to day troubles. Were much more likely to be in complete mental health.

[00:19:51] Peter: Say it. Say that again, slower.

[00:19:53] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: So, people who use spirituality or religion, so it may be an organized religion, or it might be spirituality as well. Okay. And if it was very protective. So people who use spirituality were much more likely to be in this happy sat life, satisfied, mentally healthy space.

[00:20:10] Peter: Okay. I believe that if you think there's something bigger than you, regardless of what it is,

[00:20:15] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: all right, now, the and. And also that you have something to turn to, right? So that you have some right, and it, it's concenter as well. I mean, I don't know exactly why. I just know when you had do these sort of survey research, you don't know the reasons, you just know the association. So, but, um, being married is very protective and I think that's getting back to the confidant, having people on your side, um, and possibly to stabilize you too .

[00:20:43] Peter: Well, and you know.. There, there are, there, there are outliers of all different studies. Yes. Some not as, some, not as accurate as others, but No, I hear what you're saying. Um, I don't, I don't fit into that. But, um, I would, I would argue the caveat of with the right person.,

[00:20:59] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: right? I would definitely, um, and also, and I mean, being married or being in a, in a committed relationship kind of thing is helpful. Um, if it's, if you're right, if it's with the right person. And the thing is, when you do rep representative samples, usually the ones who aren't with the right person may no longer be with them. So I you don't see them in your analysis. Right. Um, now, Not, again, this is another no-brainer, but people who were in chronic pain were less likely to be in complete mental health. Now that seems completely obvious, but I was surprised how many people, these are relatively young people with ADHD are in chronic pain, perhaps because it risk taking behaviors or i, I don't know why, but, um, that's worth getting treated. You know, you've got your mental health stuff going on, but there's, if there's physical pain, Life is really hard and it's hard to be happy with it. Right. Um, and, uh, again, my poor women with h d they're less likely to be flourishing than men with h d, which is in keeping with all the, the higher prevalence of the negative things that we talked about earlier. Right. Um, so they're less likely to be all, um, completely flourishing. , you know, still many women were, but it's just, um, women with ADHD seem to be struggling more. Um, but there's a couple reasons for that. It's because, so remember I, this study was done almost 10 years ago, so women with a d d were not diagnosed very often. So I have a feeling that the women in my study who were diagnosed with adhd, they were probably fairly far along the spectrum with ADHD to actually get the diagnosis. So they may be. They may be, um, worse off than the av the average woman who would be worse off than the average man just because the people with milder symptoms would, uh, women can often, uh, mask the symptoms better than men because, especially girls, and so they were less likely to be diagnosed. So I have a feeling the women that we have, We're, we're pretty far along, and maybe that's why they're doing poorly. But it may be, it's just there may be less acceptance for women with ADHD related symptoms in society too. Um, we're still working on why women are vulnerable and trying to get a picture of that. But, uh, when more and more women are getting, um, diagnosed, I think there'll be, um, There'll be more understanding and more interventions. And then the other thing I just wanted to talk about, and I, I plugged this ev every time I talk to, uh, uh, you know, people with, uh, ADHD and any mental health CRI crisis. So even though though two 42% were doing really well that means that, you know, a little bit more than half had at least one of these other problems that that wasn't flourishing to the extent that they would like to, or we would all like them to. So, um, I just wanted to suggest that cognitive behavioral therapy, it's also called CBT is relatively short, relatively in inexpensive. It's a, it's a form of talk therapy. You can have it in a group session, eight weeks to 16 weeks, and it's been shown with people with A D H D and people with depression and people with anxiety and people with substance dependence. It's really, really helpful and what it does is it helps you capture your dysfunctional thoughts. So if you're telling yourself negative messages, which you may have heard in childhood, oh, you can't do this. You know, you're never gonna achieve. You tell yourself these types of messages many times an hour, that is gonna pull your, your mood down, your ability to function. So it helps you grab these thoughts and look at them objectively and reevaluate. And it can, it's, it really is kind of almost like you're reprogramming your own brain with more positive messaging, and that is helpful for, for almost every negative mental health outcome and certainly promotes better mental health.

[00:25:02] Peter: No question about it. What a phenomenal interview. We're well passed our time but that was totally worth it. Thank you, Esme it's wonderful to have you back. As always,

[00:25:11] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: my pleasure.

[00:25:11] Peter: You're welcome here anytime you want. Really, really good stuff. Thank you again for taking the time. It's, it's great to talk to you again

[00:25:18] Dr.Fuller-Thompson: And thank you Peter for what you do for the whole community of people with ADHD. We all appreciate it.

[00:25:24] Peter: That means a lot. Thank you. Okay guys. Fast than normal is for you. And I got some good news actually. So it turns out that Faster Than Normal, the book, which most of you know about and have read and probably brought you here, um, is still printing. It's, it's gone into like it's fourth or something, printing, and I've written five books and all five books I've gotten advances on, right? Uh, progressively more and more money. And then this Faster Than Normal I get a really nice advance and I thought, wow, there's a really nice advance. There's no way I'll ever make it back because I've never made an advance back in any of my previous. I beat my advance for Faster Than Normal. So, so finally, like five years later, I am actually earning royalties and, and I owe that to everyone who has ever listened to everyone who has ever bought a copy of Fast Than Normal. Thank you. It means the world to me.

We will see you again next week. We actually probably won't because next week is a holiday. We're probably gonna take a couple weeks off and we'll be back in the new year. We have, uh, sponsors coming up. We have new sponsors for the for the podcast. Lot of cool stuff. New guests, amazing guests, amazing repeat guests like Esme. Lots of people coming on the podcast, so, so stay tuned. As always, Faster Than Normal is for you. A D H D. All sorts of neurodiversity can be gifts as long as you know how to use them. Have a safe and wonderful holiday guys. We will see you soon.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at shankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you in January- Happy Holidays!!

Melissa Finkelstein is a New Jersey- based author, lawyer, and proud mom of three. Melissa has been writing and rhyming since she could form words. After graduating from Fordham Law, she began her career as a litigator in Manhattan. Because rhyming has always been her passion, she created a custom poetry business, Designer Rhymes so she could maintain that creative outlet. Once she had her son (7), and twin daughters (4), each with unique personalities and needs, the stars aligned for Melissa to publish her first children's book. Picky the Panda and the Tickly Tail is the first book in a series of three to come from author Melissa Finkelstein. Picky the Panda is a heartwarming story about a highly sensitive panda, which shares lessons of embracing sensory differences, practicing empathy, and recharging when overwhelmed. Picky the Panda was inspired by Melissa's daughter Skylar who has sensory processing disorder. Picky the Panda is now available on Amazon and in select children's bookstores. Enjoy!

In this episode Peter and Melissa discuss:

01:20 - Thank you so much for listening and for subscribing!

01:39 - Intro and welcome Melissa Finkelstein!

02:48 - So from Law to Children's books; tell us your story!

05:40 - Isn't it amazing what kids teach us. Are you finding that people are familiar with the topics in your book?

06:57 - What led to getting your daughter diagnosed?

09:30 - How old is she now and have all of your children read the book?

10:15 - Do you think that she's beginning to, (or will), benefit some from advances in awareness, research, etc?

11:18 - What's been the reaction and feedback to your book outside of the family?

12:00 - Is the book being used to explain to your daughter's classmates about Sensory Processing Disorder?

13:30 - On possessing supercharged senses

14:25 - How can people find more about you? Web: Everywhere fine books are sold

Socials: @melissafinkelsteinbooks on INSTA

14:45 - Thank you Melissa!

15:02 - Guys, as always thanks so much for subscribing! Faster Than Normal is for YOU! We want to know what you'd like to hear! Do you have a cool friend with a great story? We'd love to learn about, and from them. I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via email at [email protected] or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse!

15:41 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits.

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TRANSCRIPT via Descript and then corrected.. somewhat: [00:00:34] Peter: Hey everyone, how's it going? My name is Peter Shankman and this is Faster Than Normal. I wanted to see if you expected me to say it, try to shake things up a little bit. Okay. It is a Thursday here in a very cold New York City. We have to say a fond farewell to fall, which lasted about. Two and a half days, and we are most certainly into winter. It's about 34 degrees outside right now, sunny, but cold as hell. So I am inside with a sleeping dog and with Melissa Finkelstein. She's actually in New Jersey, but we are talking today because Melissa is a New Jersey based author, lawyer, and proud mom of three. She's been writing and rhyming since she could form words. Her words, not mine. After graduating from Fordham Law, she began her career as a litigator in Manhattan. She created a custom poetry business called Designer Rhymes. So here she is as a litigator. Did you, I, I gotta ask you later, remind me to ask you if you actually rhymed during court cases. Cause that would've been awesome. Mm-hmm. . But why are we talking to her today? We're talking to her. She has a son who's seven and twin daughters who are four. They each have unique personality and needs. That's where she decided to publish her first book called her first Children's book called Picky the Panda and the Tickly Tale. It's a first book in a series of three and Picky The Panda is a heartwarming story about a highly sensitive panda who shares lessons of embracing sensory diff differences, practicing empathy and recharging when overwhelmed, and I think we can all relate to that Picky The Panda- on Amazon and everywhere you get children's books. Welcome Melissa. Good to have you.

[00:02:15] Melissa: Good morning. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for that intro

[00:02:18] Peter: And just in case you ever think that nothing good comes out of divorce. Melissa came to me through my ex, let me get this right, my ex sister-in-law.

[00:02:32] Melissa: That's right.

[00:02:33] Peter: My ex-step sister-in-law. Right.

[00:02:34] Melissa: I think you're stuck with her. I think she's just your sister-in-law still.

[00:02:37] Peter: Yeah. My sister-in-law, she reached out to me and said, you know, hey, have a guest for you. I'm like, I didn't even know you knew I had a podcast. So good to know . Anyway, it is great to meet you, Melissa. Thank you for taking the time. So from law to children's books, tell us your story!

[00:02:52] Melissa: Sure. So I've always been a writer and a rhymer, um, as I said, and that's really been my passion and that's kinda how I wound up in law. Um, I thought, you know, I'm really good at writing. I'm good at. Reading and problem solving. My skill sets seem to fit. I'm gonna go be a lawyer. It sounds pretty fancy and you know, I can have all this success and, um, I did have some fun and, you know, some fulfillment doing it, but I really missed like the joy and the whimsy of my childhood, to be honest. Um, so I toyed with the idea. Maybe I would be a preschool teacher. I know that couldn't be more opposite from being a litigator in Manhattan, but I really just wanted to use my creativity. My fun, you know, happy go lucky personality and doing like corporate insecurities litigation really didn't bring me that kind of joy. Um, as you might expect. And, you know, my life was all about disputes and I, I'm all about making peace. I'm like, what am I doing? Why am I fighting for a living? So this, this isn't bringing me joy anymore. Um, so all along, as you mentioned, while I was litigating, I had my little side gig, which just really was. You know, a passion project and bringing me happiness and it was creating custom poems for people for, you know, milestone occasions and that kind of thing. And I loved making others happy through my words. And so once I had my kids, I thought, you know, this is perfect. They're all so different. You know, they're, they learned so much from children's books and I think this would be a great outlet for me to use my words and. You know, I, I'm starting a series of three books, each of which are inspired by my three kids. So they're like my little muses at this point. Um, and in doing so, I'm focusing on what, you know, one of their biggest personality, um, pieces or struggles or challenges are to, you know, try to reach children like them. And in doing so, I wrote and published my first book, Picky The Panda and the Tickly Tale as you mentioned. And it is inspired by my little girl, Skyler, who has sensory processing disorder. And I didn't realize that by sharing her story, um, you know, I actually have become kind of a sensory processing disorder advocate and someone who is working. My butt off at this point to bring awareness to this condition and to what children like Skyler and um, like so many of your listeners might be experiencing. And that has been one of the most beautiful things to come from pivoting into my role as a children's book author.

[00:05:22] Peter: It's interesting because, you know, I mean, first of all, I had some nursery school teachers who definitely could have been litigators, but, but that's neither here nor there. Um, , it's interesting, you know, you made that switch. Kids do that. They, they, they have this uncanny ability to take whatever you think is your thing and just completely flip it on its head. Um, the concept of sensory processing disorder much like ADD, a ADHD executive function disorder. Not a lot is known. And so bringing, I, I'm assuming one of the reasons you wrote the book was to bring awareness to sensory process. Absolut, what are you finding, um, when you tell people about it, what percentage would you say understand, oh yeah, of course. I've heard of that. Or, or, you know, is it, I mean, are you, are you, is it a constant battle with the teachers? Is it, how, how, how are you finding that to be?

[00:06:14] Melissa: It's becoming a much more wide spread. Um, you know, thing that people are aware of right now, but I think really the book shares this Panda's experience as being a highly sensitive, um, individual and what she goes through. And I think people are really relating to her experience more than they may have known or been aware of a diagnosis or a condition, um, called sensory processing disorder. So that's really been beneficial to me. Um, so yeah, I would say. I, I don't know. It's a smaller percentage than I would like for people to be aware of because it is a very real condition and you know, a very intense experience for those who go through it.

[00:06:57] Peter: How did you discover that your, how did you get your d daughter diagnosed? What was, what was sort of the key takeaways that, that made you say, Hey, we should look into this?

[00:07:06] Melissa: So she was in, so she's a twin. I'll start with that. So, um, I was constantly seeing her right next to her twin sister, and, you know, all kids are different obviously. So she was having a very different experience as a baby, a child than her twin sister was. So I think that helped make it more apparent to me that she was going through something and she was in an obvious discomfort and, um, just kind of unsettled a lot of the time. And, you know, I knew there wasn't anything medical going on with her because she, she was doing okay medically, we were bringing her to the pediatrician. Everything was fine, but I could just tell that she was uncomfortable. And my son at the time was in occupational therapy for a different issue that was going on. Um, and so I brought Skylar when she was one years old to this pediatric occupational therapist. Who I've come to know and trust and had her assessor and right away she said, this is something sensory going on. And to be honest, I was a doubter at first. Um, I didn't really know very much about sensory processing disorder or sensory sensitivity or any of that. And, um, I can tell you later that I've come to realize that I actually have a lot of sensory challenges myself, which I've learned through my daughter. So anyway, this pediatric, uh, occupational therapist evaluated her and right away she knew it was something sensory. Um, I watched the evaluation and I was like, you know, I don't know. I'm not really seeing it because she was, um, exposing to her to certain sensory, tactile, um, you know, things like sand and foam and, you know, different manipulatives that she could touch, and I thought she was fine. I'm like, you know, I see her getting her hands messy. But all along there were these little cues that were going on that she was able to pick up on. So just for one example, she showed me that while Skylar was, you know, digging into these Orbis, which are these like liquidy beads that children can play with, she was actually salivating and had like, Drool coming out of her mouth while she was doing it because her sensory system was just so overloaded, um, that while she was willing to do it, her system actually couldn't handle it. So that's just one example of how, you know, we came to be aware of it and then, you know, all the cues and clues just sort of lined up after that. And occupational therapy has been one of our greatest tools for her so far,

[00:09:22] Peter: I'm sure. How old is she now?

[00:09:24] Melissa: She's almost five. Okay.

[00:09:26] Peter: And has she, has she. Do you read the book to her?

[00:09:30] Melissa: Yes. Yes. I, all my children have read the book and they love it. And my other two children wanna know when theirs are coming out and they are in the works. ,

[00:09:39] Peter: One of the things that I've discovered, um, uh, about sort of, ADD & ADHD when you're talking to kids about it, and so I'm assuming the same thing is, is truly is, it's all about how it's framed When I was growing. Um, you know, a ADD didn't exist. What existed was sit down, you disrupt in the class disease. And, and so I, kids our age, um, if they eventually got diagnosed had also had to overcome the stigma of 30, 40 years of being told they're broken. are you seeing with kids your daughter's age because of advances in research? Advances in, uh, awareness? They're not going through the whole concept of you're broken, they're not gonna have to heal from that. They can start looking at what they have as, you know, a difference as opposed to being broken.

[00:10:36] Melissa: Yeah, I really hope that's the case, and I agree with what you said. Um, and one of the purposes of this book is to frame heighten sensitivity or. Sensory challenges as a gift. And I know that that's something that you like to speak about, um, in terms of adhd and I absolutely agree with that. Um, so in terms of heightened sensitivity, you know, yes, it can present struggles and challenges, but it can also be your greatest gift. It can be, you know, the way you use your imagination and can be creative the way you are compassionate and empathetic and can show love. So it can really be a strength. And that's one of the things that I'm hoping to share with children who may feel like Skylar, um, as term in terms of their sensitivity,

[00:11:18] Peter: What's been the reaction or the, what's been the feedback to the book or the reaction to the book, um, outside of your family?

[00:11:25] Melissa: Oh, it's been wonderful. I've been hearing from so many families saying, you know, we have a little picky at home. Um, you know, my daughter like, wants to read it every day. She feels like Pickalina so it, that's been the best part of this. When I set out to become an author, I just wanted to use my words to make children and families happy and, you know, provide them with a good bedtime story. I actually didn't have these higher goals of, you know, bringing such awareness. and acceptance to children with differences, but like that has become the greatest gift. And the thing that I'm most proud of and most excited about in my journey so far.

[00:12:01] Peter: Is the book being used, um, as sort of a way to explain to your daughter's, classmates about the different, because I imagine that much like ad although ADHD manifests in different ways, I imagine that sensory processing disorder must manifest itself in some ways that would make the kids go, what the heck's that all about?

[00:12:20] Melissa: Absolutely. So there's a page in the book where Picky the Panda um, has become so overwhelmed that she's feeling dysregulated and she's hiding under the table in her classroom, and she is rocking and crying because she is so overwhelmed and her body feels such big feelings. And the students. Who are her animal friends gather around her and they yell Picky. It's ok because you know, they're just trying to be kind and they're like, come outta the table, everything's great. But for her, everything's not great at that moment. So that, you know, that doesn't work for Picky and it takes different strategies to get her to be able to recharge and calm her body down. So I think, you know, empathy and understanding and realizing that we are all different is definitely one of the biggest messages. So, yes, to make children, um, and classmates who encounter kids like Skyler or who have other differences to be accepting and empathetic.

[00:13:12] Peter: I like the concept of supercharged senses in the book because, you know, adhd, I consider it a superpower and I try to frame it as a superpower. So the concept of supercharged senses sort of seems very similar in the respect that you just have to, you know, if, if when I talk about adhd, I talk about the fact that. You know, most people are given Honda Accords for brains and we're given Lamborghini's, and so that's great, but you have to learn how to drive it, or you're gonna crash into a tree. You know, anyone could drive a Honda. You need training to drive a Lamborghini. And so I'm assuming it's the same premise with supercharged senses. I really love that term.

[00:13:46] Melissa: Yeah, thank you. And absolutely, I agree with that. Something we have to learn to adapt to and adjust to. But like I said, it, and like you always say, um, it can really be seen as one of our biggest gifts. Very cool. So my daughter can, she's, you know, the first one to smell something stinky or she can see something a mile away. She can hear that train coming, you know, 10 stops away. So, you know, she really does have supercharged senses, but it also can lead her to feel very overwhelmed and heightened at certain times.

[00:14:15] Peter: Very cool. How can, so I'm assuming, yeah, it's available on Amazon, it's available everywhere. Um, how can people connect with you? Are you on Instagram? Are you on Facebook?

[00:14:24] Melissa: Yes. So I am on Instagram at Melissa Finkelstein books. Um, and that is a great place to follow me. I'll have information about Picky the Panda um, sensory processing awareness and about my forthcoming books, um, the next of which will be out in early 2023.

[00:14:42] Peter: Very, very cool. Melissa, thank you so much for taking time to be on Fast Than Normal today. I really, really appreciate it.

[00:14:47] Melissa: Thank you so much. It's been wonderful.

[00:14:49] Peter: Awesome guys. Check out the book. It is a lot of fun. Picky, I love, I love, I love the title Picky, the Panda and the Tickly Tale, talking about sensory processing disorder as supercharged senses. I love it. We back next week with another interview. This is Faster Than Normal. God, talk.. I mean fast- talk about fast, right? The entire year it's, it's almost Thanksgiving here next week in New York, it's gonna be Thanksgiving and I have absolutely no idea how that happened. And it's Christmas and it's New Year's and yeah, it's essentially summer already next year. So I dunno how we got there. But we will see you next week with another interview. Thank you so much for listening. Remember that neurodiversity is a gift, not a curse. And we are all on this train together. Talk to you guys soon. Stay tuned.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at shankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week!

Hey guys! Peter Shankman the host of Faster Than Normal here. I wanna invite you to something! I am hosting a Mastermind with 12 amazing speakers who are gonna be talking about everything from ADHD to mental health, from entrepreneurship, to just living your life better. It's gonna be on November 10th, It's gonna be virtual from anywhere in the world. Incredible, incredible speakers. The leading fitness trainer in Canada for all things. Me! A whole bunch of speakers- Scott Carney, who wrote the book which is to all about how he goes and takes ice showers every day. It's gonna be 12 amazing speakers, the CBS Early Shows' Jennifer Hartstein, really, really great people. And I'd like you to join us. Check out the link below in the show notes at ShankMinds 2022 and we will see you there. And a matter of fact, look for the discount code in the show notes as well, that'll take a hundred bucks off the cost. We'll see you soon! https://shankman.lpages.co/shankminds-virtual-2022/ DISCOUNT CODE: SMFriends22

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Marc believes that finding your Vision and Purpose are the key to finding success, happiness, and fulfillment. Harvard-educated, he left a lucrative tech career for art school, founded the long-running online gallery Every Day Original, and has been mentoring and coaching creatives for over a decade. He now Coaches a wide variety of clients and helps them access their own creativity to fuel their next steps. He is now getting his Coaching certification and working one-on-one, in groups, and in his free online workshops to help people create a bigger vision for their life and career through Purpose-driven breakthroughs. He shares many of the how's and why's with us here today, enjoy!

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In this episode Peter and Marc discuss:

01:20 - Thank you so much for listening and for subscribing!

01:39 - Intro and welcome Marc Scheff!

02:40 - Why did you give up a lucrative career in Technology to pursue a career in Art?

03:51 - So where did you study; how did it go?

05:10 - Why do you want to help people and how did you land on "vision and purpose"?

08:06 - Is it really as easy as "find what you love doing and the money will come eventually?"

09:37 - Freedom in work, can feel completely overwhelming

10:20 - How can people find more about you? Web: www.MarcScheffCoaching.com (or via www.CreativeAccelerationCoaching.com) and https://www.marcscheff.com

Socials: @MarcScheff on Twitter INSTA and LinkedIN

12:02 - Guys, as always thanks so much for subscribing! Faster Than Normal is for YOU! We want to know what you'd like to hear! Do you have a cool friend with a great story? We'd love to learn about, and from them. I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via email at [email protected] or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse!

12:16 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

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TRANSCRIPT via Descript and then corrected.. somewhat:

Hey guys. Peter Shankman the host of Faster Than Normal here. I wanna invite you to something! I am hosting a Mastermind with 12 amazing speakers who are gonna be talking about everything from ADHD to mental health, from entrepreneurship, to just living your life better. It's gonna be on November 10th, It's gonna be virtual from anywhere in the world. Incredible, incredible speakers. The leading fitness trainer in Canada for all things. Me! A whole bunch of speakers- Scott Carney, who wrote the book which is to all about how he goes and takes ice showers every day. It's gonna be 12 amazing speakers, the CBS Early Shows' Jennifer Hartstein, really, really great people. And I'd like you to join us. Check out the link below in the show notes at ShankMinds 2022 and we will see you there. And a matter of fact, look for the discount code in the show notes as well, that'll take a hundred bucks off the cost. We'll see you soon! https://shankman.lpages.co/shankminds-virtual-2022/

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[00:01:26] Peter: Hey everyone. My name is Peter Shankman. This is Faster Than Normal. You knew that though, cuz you're probably subscribed to this podcast and it doesn't really make sense for me to keep saying that, but I do it on every episode cuz maybe there'll be someone new today. Anyway, good to have you back for another week. Uh, we are going to start today's podcast with an interesting guest who believes that vision, finding your vision and finding your purpose are the key to finding success, happiness, and fulfillment. I wouldn't argue with that per se. He was Harvard educated and he left a lucrative tech for art school, unlike other famous people who have gone to art school, though he did not commit to, uh, doing bad things, he found the long running online gallery every day, original, and has been mentoring and coaching creatives for over a decade. I love that he focuses on creatives. He uses creativity to fuel their next steps. He's now getting his coaching certificate and working one-on-one groups and his free online workshops to help people create bigger vision for their lives and career through purpose driven bake, uh, purpose driven ba. Well, my God, what is going on?

[00:02:24] Marc: You're going faster than normal Peter!

[00:02:26] Peter: breakthroughs!! Geezus! Okay, that being said, say hi to Mark Scheff! Hi, Marc. Welcome!

[00:02:31] Marc: Thanks, Peter. Great to be here.

[00:02:33] Peter: Never interview someone. Friday at 5:00 PM this is what happened ! Nice to talk to you, so. What made you leave for, for Art school of all things. You just had this, this love and this passion for art, and you're like, Screw it. I'm leaving Tech.

[00:02:49] Marc: Well, I mean, I always loved art. Like, like probably every artist says, but, you know, um, you know, I had a, I I grew up in a sort of, I don't know what you wanna call, is sort of traditional, uh, productive, focused household and, uh, certainly not one that understood to things like ADHD and a, um, you know, so when I went to Harvard, you have to pick your major in your first year. And I thought, well, I'll pick something that'll make me money. Cuz you certainly can't have a career as an artist. That's crazy, right? Um, so I, I studied computer science and I went and I got a job and I, and I said, Okay, I'm gonna take the art classes that I said I was gonna take and I realized, Oh, I, I really like this. This is really great. Um, so I started taking more art classes and more art classes. And my manager at one point, this woman Amy, who I, I sent a thank you note recently, um, took me aside one day and kind of offered me a chance to be, it's funny, offered me a chance to be a part of some secret upcoming layoffs. And I took it and I took a little severance and I put a down payment on my art, uh, my Art degree.

[00:03:44] Peter: Wow. Wow. That's a, it's, it's always fascinating how those things happen because that's exactly how it always happens, right? It's always something out of the blue and random. Yeah. So where did you study? Where'd you study art?

[00:03:54] Marc: I studied art at the Academy of Art University in San Francisco. That's where I was listening and working in tech. Yep. Um, I had a, I studied illustration there. Um, I got my degree in the early 2000. Um, and you know, from there, and, and, and this is probably not unusual for your guests, I went on to do all kinds of things. I was a staff artist, I was a creative director, uh, you know, almost a founder of a startup. I, you know, I ran teams. I, I was on teams. I did a little bit of everything before moving to New York where I did a lot more, where I sort of discovered freelance and started doing more freelance stuff. And that's when I started really getting into kind of coaching and mentoring Artists. Cuz I was learning so much and I think, I think I read your book, um, which by the way, everyone should absolutely go read this book. It's, it, it, and you didn't pay me to say that. It's, it really was wonderful . I, uh, I got it and I, I actually listened to it and then I bought a copy and gave it to my wife and said, You have to read chapter six if you read nothing else. Um, you know, and, and so I, you know, when I go and I learn things, I, I get very excited about what I've learned and I wanna kind of pass it on. And that's essentially how I got into all this.

[00:05:00] Peter: Very cool. Tell us about, So a lot of our guests come to me, you know, they say, I can't find my passion. I have no idea what my vision is. I have no idea what my purpose is. What am I supposed to be doing? You know, they're, they're 30, they're 40, and they're like, you know, I've just been cruising along and I don't know if it's the right thing. So you seem to have it down where, you know, if, if you say believe, finding your vision and purpose like you to find success, you must have a way to help people do that.

[00:05:19] Marc: I have a few ways, uh, . That's true.

[00:05:22] Peter: Well, let's chat about that. Why, why, why vision and success versus anything else?

[00:05:26] Marc: Um, well, vision and purpose. I, you know, vision and purpose, right? . I've been working, I've been working with this concept of purpose from way back in San Francisco when I started going to a, a weekly men's circle. And the purpose of the men's circle was to support men in living their purpose. Now, this wasn't some sort. You know, secret cabal. This was, this was really us all pushing each other to sort of bring our gifts to the world. And the way that we did that was we, we really worked hard to discover purpose, which we often boiled down to one or two words. What I've found, and in fact, I met with a client today who said, you know, who told me the, the work that we did, the work that we did, on discovering vision and purpose made all those other decisions that she was struggling with easier. Um, and as someone, you know, has someone who also manages, you know, ADHD or works with ADHD, you know, we have all these ideas. We have. We are like you say, faster than normal. Um, and sometimes it's like, it's like too much and it can feel overwhelming. So what vision and purpose does is it gets you down to really like the core of what you're doing on this earth in this lifetime. And when you're looking at, you know, literally what you should have for dinner, it can make that decision easier. Cuz you say, well, I'm the person. So, for example, my purpose currently is to unleash creativity. It's what I do in my coaching, whether they're an artist or a non-artist. I, I work with people to get creative around their, the solutions to, to their life. And so, uh, the, the way that. The way that I, the way that I work with people on that is I use various tools. I use various tools that, that probably a lot of different coaches know, but I focus in on that level of thinking because then when you come to these other decisions, you say, Well, what if my vision is this and my purpose is this? Am I really like a pizza guy or, or a fried chicken guy? I mean, it's not always that easy, but, but it can be

[00:07:11] Peter: Very, very cool. You know, it's interesting, the, the concept of purpose is something I don't think people are taught right there. There's, there's, and I, I've talked to teachers about this because, you know, there's this premise of you go to school and you learn what you're supposed to learn, which is never the right thing. You don't learn how to bounce a checkbook or, you know, how to do taxes, you know, But, but, and they always, they always, there's that one joke where the, the guidance counselor says to you, you know, figure out you'd wanna do for free. And that's what you should do for a. Like what you'd love to do. That's what you should do for, you know, what you, what you wanna do, what you love. And it never seems to work out. I,

[00:07:41] Marc: I was, I have some, I have some issues with that.

[00:07:43] Peter: can't tell you how many things I was supposed to be doing. Uh, you know, but I think that, that, that for kids coming outta school, they don't necessarily know. They've seen, especially kids today, they've, they've, they've watched, you know, uh, kids that of nowhere make millions on TikTok and, and, and create, you know, and they're confused. Cause they know, in reality it's, it's very, very difficult to do that, but, Right. You know, they also haven't been told anything else. Right. Right. And they don't know what their purpose is. And I don't necessarily know, you're supposed to know what your purpose is in your twenties, but it, it does become that question of at what point should you say, Here's what I love to do, here's what I wanna do, here's how I wanna change the world.

[00:08:16] Marc: Yeah. I mean, I think it is different for everybody. Um, you know, I have worked with people who have discovered that they actually wanna be doing something else for their work or something else with their free time or, or, or whatever. Um, I do think. And I'm in my mid forties. Um, and I do see a lot of people around this age starting to struggle with this question cuz we're, you know, if, if it's midlife, we're supposedly sort of halfway there and you start to think about, okay, well at some point I'm leaving. What do I want my legacy to be? And that's when I think a lot of people start thinking about purpose. I mean, some people come to it much, much earlier, but I have two, I have two kids, one's seven, one's 12. And you know, they don't , they don't grapple with that, you know, at all. So it's, it's quite. Thing to be dealing with at, I think at that, at that particular age. But at some point, like I said, you know, you, you know, you, you, you go so far and we don't live in a wor like, you know, my dad's generation and my dad included, you know, he, he, he's a doctor. He got a job. Somewhere, and he stayed in that job. You know, he maybe had a couple of jobs over the course of his career and did different things, but he was always focused on that, that sort of purpose, which, whether or not that was his core purpose, that's what he chose and that's what he stuck to. We now live in a world with the internet, with, you know, you can do, you know, you can do anything and be doing TikTok and Instagram and, you know, skydiving, uh, for example, um, as, as a, as a random example. Um, you know, and so we, we have all this freedom, which can be completely overwhelming. And that's where I think a lot of folks, at least in the communities where I work, we were start thinking about, okay, well if we can boil this down to something that is core to ourselves, and this is what I do in my workshops, it's what I do in my one-on-one coaching. It's what I'll be doing in my group coaching because I really, I, I've seen it over and it's not just a belief I've seen. The proof is is there, I've seen people and the people who do the work and, you know, do the writing and, and come and, and come up with something that is their purpose, that is their vision. They come back, you know, just really lit up and they say, I, I, I found focus, I found happiness. I'm like, you know, I'm like, I'm like dancing when I get up in the morning and I'm, you know, I didn't do that for them. They did it, but I, but I provide these, you know, these various frameworks for them to think through these.

[00:10:20] Peter: No, I mean, it makes sense. Tell us, tell people how we can find you. You know how, if they want to, if they, if they like what they're hearing, they say, Hey, this is something I'd like!

[Web: www.MarcScheffCoaching.com (or via www.CreativeAccelerationCoaching.com) and https://www.marcscheff.com Socials: @MarcScheff on Twitter INSTA and LinkedIN ]

[00:10:28] Marc: Um, well, you can find me. Uh, I'm, I'm on the internet in most places as my name Marc Scheff . Um, I, I am also an artist, so if you can find, you know, you can find my portfolio at Marc Scheff , but my Marc Scheff coaching is my coaching website. If you can't remember. Spell my name. You can just go to Creative Acceleration Coaching. And that just goes to my website. And there's, um, there's an opportunity there for a free coaching session. I, I like to do these free coaching sessions, um, because it's actually a filter for them and for me, Uh, if someone, first of all doesn't take the step to book the, the, the appointment, then you know, that's probably a good sign that, that they're not gonna, they're not gonna do the work. Uh, but also when we meet, I actually, what I do is I just coach people for. 30 or 45 minutes and give them kind of an overview of some of the different tools that I use. So I've had people walk out of that and say things like, you know, there's, you know, I, I got, I got great value out of that 30 or 40 minutes, and now I wanna know more. If, you know, if they walk away and it sort of fizzles out for them, then, then that's, you know, that's okay too. But it's a great way for people to, you know, I don't, I don't push sales. I don't, you know, at the end of the call I'm not like, Okay, you can commit now and there's a special deal and all this stuff.

[00:11:31] Peter: Right, right, right.

[00:11:31] Marc: Yeah, I don't do any of that stuff cuz I really, in fact, I've had people say, Send me a PayPal. I say, actually I want you to, if you, if you want, if you write me an email in a week and still want it, then I'll do it. Exactly. Cause I want you to really like see if this lasts for you. If you're really still making progress on the work that you did in that 30 minutes, then we should totally, we should totally keep going. Cause there, cuz you're, I love that. Yeah. There's a connection.

[00:11:53] Peter: I love that. Yeah. Very cool. Marc, thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it, that it's really kind of you.

[00:11:58] Marc: Thanks for having me. Big fan of your work and just really glad to be here. Thank you.

[00:12:02] Peter: Awesome. We'll definitely have you back. Guys as always Faster Than Normal is for YOU! We wanna know what you wanna hear. Shoot us an email. If you have any guests you think would work for us, [email protected], let me know. We'd love to get 'em on the podcasts. We'll see you next week. ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Stay safe.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at shankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week!

Hey guys! Peter Shankman the host of Faster Than Normal here. I wanna invite you to something! I am hosting a Mastermind with 12 amazing speakers who are gonna be talking about everything from ADHD to mental health, from entrepreneurship, to just living your life better. It's gonna be on November 10th, It's gonna be virtual from anywhere in the world. Incredible, incredible speakers. The leading fitness trainer in Canada for all things. Me! A whole bunch of speakers- Scott Carney, who wrote the book which is to all about how he goes and takes ice showers every day. It's gonna be 12 amazing speakers, the CBS Early Shows' Jennifer Hartstein, really, really great people. And I'd like you to join us. Check out the link below in the show notes at ShankMinds 2022 and we will see you there. And a matter of fact, look for the discount code in the show notes as well, that'll take a hundred bucks off the cost. We'll see you soon! https://shankman.lpages.co/shankminds-virtual-2022/ DISCOUNT CODE: SMFriends22

We're visiting again today with Aron Croft who's made some changes since our last visit on Episode 240, "The Un-Squeaky Wheel: How Inattentive ADHD Goes Under the Radar w/ Aron Croft" including developing a new way to help the community; enjoy! In his own words: Aron Croft has always been obsessed with one question: "Why can't we get ourselves to do tasks that we WANT to do"? That question was on his mind as he dropped out of college twice, failed out of his first 7 jobs and ended up broke, divorced, and earning minimum wage at 33. After an adult diagnosis of Inattentive ADHD and an M.S. in Coaching Psychology, he decided to abandon neurotypical productivity, and his life changed. He built a successful Fortune 500 career followed by a six-figure coaching business with over 125,000 followers. In his coaching business, he teaches ADHD'ers his contrarian 8% Productivity Habit, which helps them complete their top tasks in 2 hours a day and never feel behind again. His work has been featured by ADDitude Magazine, the Attention Deficit Disorder Association, and dozens of top ADHD outlets. To watch a 30 minute training on the 8% Productivity Habit, visit freeadhdtraining.com.

In this episode Peter and Aron discuss:

01:20 - Thank you so much for listening and for subscribing!

01:29 - Intro and welcome back Aron Croft!!

02:40 - Tell us what you've been doing since the last time you were on the show? Ref: 8percent Productivity Habit Method

03:20 - What is living in the country like for someone with a faster brain?

04:12 - Is spending time daily in the out-of-doors helping?

05:25 - How have you grown in this environment within the last couple of years?

07:01 - On embracing 'measured' change

08:11 - Aron explains his 8percent Productivity Habit

08:47 - "motivation, willpower, and discipline" These may only be neurotypical confines!

09:23 - There are other ways to win!!

09:53 - How do professional Boxers become so fast?

11:16 - On willpower and habits. Skateboarding can strengthen you!

14:13 - How can people find more about you? Web: hiddenADHD.com ALSO freeadhdtraining.com

Socials: @aroncroft on Twitter @HiddenADHD on Facebook INSTA YouTube and hidden_adhd on TikTok

15:07 - Guys, as always thanks so much for subscribing! Do you have a cool friend with a great story? We'd love to hear. I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via email at [email protected] or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse!

15:30 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

—

TRANSCRIPT via Descript and then corrected.. somewhat:

Hey guys. Peter Shankman the host of Faster Than Normal here. I wanna invite you to something! I am hosting a Mastermind with 12 amazing speakers who are gonna be talking about everything from ADHD to mental health, from entrepreneurship, to just living your life better. It's gonna be on November 10th, It's gonna be virtual from anywhere in the world. Incredible, incredible speakers. The leading fitness trainer in Canada for all things. Me! A whole bunch of speakers- Scott Carney, who wrote the book which is to all about how he goes and takes ice showers every day. It's gonna be 12 amazing speakers, the CBS Early Shows' Jennifer Hartstein, really, really great people. And I'd like you to join us. Check out the link below in the show notes at ShankMinds 2022 and we will see you there. And a matter of fact, look for the discount code in the show notes as well, that'll take a hundred bucks off the cost. We'll see you soon! https://shankman.lpages.co/shankminds-virtual-2022/

—

[00:01:23] Peter: Hey everyone. Peter Shankman, another episode of Faster Than Normal. Thrilled to have you here. Welcome aboard. We gotta repeat guest today Aron Croft was here by a year or so ago, and since then he told me that after he, he heard hisself on this episode, he's had to upend his entire life and he moved to a farm. And like, I don't know, I've got 10 acres of land and a chainsaw or something. I'll let him tell you more about that. But Aron Croft has is he was a great guest last time we have him back, and he's always been obsessed with one question, which says, Why can't we get ourselves to do the tasks we wanna do? He dropped outta college twice. He failed his first seven jobs. He ended up broke divorce earning minimum wage, days 33. Then he got diagnosed and then he got an MS in coaching psychology, and he took his neurotypical productivity. His life changed. He built a Fortune 500 career, followed by a six figure coaching business. He teaches ADHD 'ers his contrarian. 8% productivity hat. We'll talk about that. He's at free ADHD training.com and welcome back Aron good to have you, man.

[00:02:21] Aron: Thank you, Peter. This is, this podcast is always the most challenging one for me to be a guest on because it's like, it's so hard to be efficient and, and get everything done that you and I want to talk about in your episode. Cap.

[00:02:37] Peter: All right, so let's let you start it. Tell us about yourself. Tell us what you've been doing since the last time you had you on.

[00:02:42] Aron: Yeah, I mean, pretty much just buying 10 acres in a chainsaw. Uh, that's, that's pretty much it, that's taken up most of the last 12 months. Um, what have I been up to really, uh, formalizing, Um, my 8% productivity habit method. Which is really just about how do we get our top task done in just two hours a day. Like, we're not gonna suddenly become sort of full of motivation, willpower, and discipline. Like we've been trying that our whole lives and how do we do that so that we can just stop feeling behind? And, um, that's really what I've been focused on and working with hundreds of ADHDers and, um, now we're just, you know, expanding it out to more.

[00:03:20] Peter: Very, very cool. And tell me that I wanna, I wanna talk about living in the middle of nowhere or on 10 acres or whatever. What's that like for someone with a faster brain?

[00:03:28] Aron: Uh, it's so delightful because, you know, I can just, my brain is going a mile a minute all the time. It's so exhausting. I would love freedom and a break from it sometimes, but like when I go out, like we've got trails on the property and it's just, we're surrounded by just trees and nature and when I just, when I get outside, Um, it just quiets everything down, um, in nature. And so, yeah. So it's just been, it's been absolutely delightful. Um, and there's also like some mindless tasks like cutting, you know, cutting down branches with a chainsaw on the weekend. Like, I don't need to think. And it's very nice for me to not give myself like, cognitive tasks every once in a while.

[00:04:10] Peter: Yep. Are you enjoying, So is there, is there, would you say you're getting more outdoor time than you used? And and is that helping?

[00:04:20] Aron: I, you know, honestly I'd say that I'm getting about, I'm getting a little bit more outdoor time, Not a ton more, but the outdoor time absolutely helps. Like I, I mean, part of the reason we made the move is cause I was living in downtown Chicago and all I would do to leave the apartment was just go and walk in nature. And there was this cool nature path near us. So I'd say that I'm, I'm only getting a little more time in nature, but the other thing I really like is, um, space. Uh, so like you can't see it cuz it's off camera, but like, I literally commandeered the entire big, like what room would be a family room in our basement. I put up a 16 foot long whiteboard of just wallpaper, that's whiteboard wallpaper. Um, I mean, I've got like a studio set up with camera and lights and a nice microphone, and I've just got my shit everywhere. Like on the pasted it on the walls, the post it notes galore! I just love the ability to spread out and try to untangle this like super messy brain.

[00:05:21] Peter: Very cool. And what would you tell people that you've learned? How have you grown in the past couple years?

[00:05:27] Aron: I'd say, I'd say two things. So, um, one is just this idea of like, stop, like, like I, I, I've given up trying to be neurotypical. Um, and you know, that might sound obvious, but I work with a lot of ADHDers and they're still trying to be like what their parents and their peers and their teachers told them to be. And so one is just the freedom to give that up, um, and all the like self-compassion and acceptance that comes with it. And then on the flip side of that, right, and you know this in business, right? Is once I gave that up, um, And I was like, You know what? I'm not gonna be like, So you and I are a little bit different. Like I, I just have the inattentive ADHD symptoms. I wish I had some of the hyperactivity energy stuff, but like, like, I'm like a delicate flower. I burn out after like a few hours of like, I. Of like thinking work. And so I was like, Okay, instead of just saying that, that's like a weakness. How can I just build a productivity system around, around that? And um, so just doing those things and kind of embracing my limitations, quote unquote, has like, turned me into way more powerful than I've ever been.

[00:06:43] Peter: It sounds like it might have. Um, It's interesting. I, I know a lot of people with adhd, they, they change is difficult; , Right? They get into a routine, they get into a habit, and then change becomes sort of a, a, a fear, right? You embrace it.

[00:07:01] Aron: Um, I embrace, I embrace measured change. Okay. Um, because Right. It's, that's important. That's an important distinction. It is. Right. But like, but it, it's like so many things we don't realize that we're actually trying to. For two variables. And we're really looking for balance, right? We want, we want no change, but we also want lots of novelty and variety, right? And so we're, we're kind of, we kind of need to find that right balance. You know, I find so many people with their, uh, Productivity. They're like, I wanna get all my top tasks done. But I also don't wanna be forced into like Right. Having to do it. And I wanna like feel like doing them. Like I don't want it to be painful. And it's sort of like, okay, like if we can make explicit those like trade offs that we're trying to make, we can find a solution. That's the, that sounded theoretical. I feel like I'm just dabbling. Sorry, Peter.

[00:07:53] Peter: No, no, it makes sense. So with that, tell me about the, uh, the 8% productivity habit.

[00:07:58] Aron: Yeah, I know cuz clearly I'm obsessed with it. But , uh, I'm excited to have somebody to talk to about it that isn't my wife. Well, she's excited that I have someone you know today to talk to about it. Um, yeah, I mean, so it was really just, This concept. So the 8% is simply that like 8% of a 24 hour day is two hours. And I was like, All right. If I could just build a productivity habit, that meant that I could get away basically with just doing hard tasks for two hours a day, and then the rest of the day I can kind of just slack off and like wing it. Um, like if I could build something that would be effective, man, that would just give me so much freedom. And, um, so I tried to build it, and then the first phase of it is abandon neurotypical productivity. So all of us have been raised on this like diet of motivation, willpower, and discipline. And like you, Whoever wins is the one who wants it the most. And that's fine if your motivation pathways and willpower pathways work, you know, neurotypically. But for us, or at least for the inattentive, ADHD symptoms that I tend to work with with my students, um, it doesn't translate to action. And so we're left with, we're left with this really unfair conundrum. We either don't take action. Or we have a secret sauce, which helps us take action, which is we just flood ourselves with adrenaline, stress and anxiety, and suddenly we can do a bunch of hard tasks. Right? But it's like so mentally and physically and emotionally training,

[00:09:33] Peter: I believe that. It's interesting because it puts us back into that premise of imposters, right? If we're trying to do things in sort of like that one way that's supposed to be done right? You know, like what you said about, about going out and, and, and you know, the person who wins, the person wants the most, there are other ways to win .

[00:09:55] Aron: Amen. My brother. Thank you.

[00:09:56] Peter: You know, I, I, I find that, Well, even this morning I was, I was in a boxing class and I was training. It was one trainer who was training two of us, and we'd each do drills, uh, alternate on drills. And I was watching him, you know, so like 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off. And on my 30 seconds off, I'm supposed to be shadow boxing. And of course I wound up watching this guy. This guy is about. 10 years more experienced boxing than I do. And his punches were so fast, like, so fast, and, and it was like a blur. And I'm just staring at him. And of course the trainer's like, Yo, you wanna actually do something or you wanna just watch? I'm like, Okay, yeah, sorry, but I need to figure out how he got that fast. And he goes, he's trained, He's constantly repeating the motion and doing it over and over again and building those muscles and growing and. You know, so I, I hear what you're saying. It's, it's in that, in that regard. I'm sure he does want it, but I'm sure he is also lost a ton of fights. He doesn't want it the most, he's just doing it every day because it's something that makes him happy and excites him, and he is also getting better at it by default.

[00:10:55] Aron: I love, I love that you said that because, um, so like, because I. And just, I'm, I'm just like on like, honestly, like, I'm literally like the most like unproductive person at my core. Um, and I just have like almost no motivational, willpower discipline. So the work around though is kind of, is what you were saying though, that I discovered. It was like, if I just build something in a habit, then it kind of happens without really any motivational will power discipline. Right. And so, It's been this like side door to like sneak into like productivity, uh, without kind of the traditional things is it sounds like you've got some, uh, interest in habits as well.

[00:11:42] Peter: Well, I've always found that, you know, I always, because for ADHD I would always gravitate back in school. I always gravitated toward the things I doing because I enjoyed doing them and I. Specifically, One time I got off, I, I was up, I would always ride my bike, and then one time, one year I get into skateboarding, right? And I, I would skateboard, skateboard, skateboard for like a year and a half, two years, everywhere. I went to skateboard. Skateboard. And then one day case got back on my bike. And I was shocked at how much stronger my legs were. It wasn't that I'd been working out my legs, it's that I'd been skateboarding, I was working out my legs, but it didn't occur to me as that, Right. The things that you love to do are the things you naturally get better at because you're doing 'em so much because you love them. The the downside for ADHD is sometimes you have to do things you don't love and you still have to do them.

[00:12:27] Aron: Well, and so the, the upside, so I agree with you and the upside is, um, so look, I believe, and, and again, all with the caveat that a lot of the things I'm talking about are limited to people that have the inattentive symptoms or combined adhd, Right? Um, but. You know, the cool part is that I believe so many people, and this is entrepreneurs, this is working professionals I've talked to, like, we're looking for something that would have like the biggest bang for our buck. Um, kind of like on the entrepreneur where they're like, I don't want to just trade dollars for hours. Like, Right, or hours for dollars. Like, I want something that's scalable and like, I want, I want like leverage effectively is what? You know, working professionals and stuff are saying. And um, the cool part is that I found is. A lot of productivity stuff focuses on like overhauling your life, right? Like you're gonna write down all your to-do lists and write down goals in every area, and then you're gonna time box your schedule and you know you're gonna do all these things. You're gonna make this color coded thing. And the reality is that there's a lead domino in there, which is if you just push this one piece, all these other productivity things fit, which is the piece that you just mentioned, which is. We don't suck at all productivity. We're great at like fire alarm tasks.

Exactly. We're even decent at like busy tasks. And the reason we're decent at them is because the area that we suck and that if we improve is the lead domino that knocks all the other dominoes down is in doing tough tasks. And if we can get, build a habit of doing tough tasks every day, suddenly they don't feel tough and our comfort zone expands.

[00:14:13] Peter: Yep, a hundred percent. Tell us how we could find you.

[00:14:17] Aron: Well, you could just drive out to Michigan and look for a house.

[00:14:22] Peter: Quit being a smart ass Aron, how can we find you? . [14:13 - How can people find more about you? Web: hiddenADHD.com ALSO freeadhdtraining.com

Socials: @aroncroft on Twitter @HiddenADHD on Facebook INSTA YouTube and hidden_adhd on TikTok

]

[00:14:24] Aron: All right. Alright. Um, I would say, I would say just go to free adhd training.com. I literally was like, How could I come up with the easiest to remember URL in the history of URLs? Not that help a reporter out.com isn't also memorable . But anyway, free adhd training.com and uh, I go into like a full training. It's free on the 8% productivity habit, what it is, how you can do it, um, and really break it all down with like pretty graphics and all the, my pretty bald head and all these fun things.

[00:14:57] Peter: Always love having you, Aron bald head and all. It was a pleasure. Enjoy your home, enjoy your 10 acres and your, your chainsaw. We'll have you back again.

[00:15:06] Aron: All right, brother. Appreciate it!

[00:15:07] Peter: Guys, as always, we wanna know what you're hearing and we wanna know what you're seeing. If you have a guest that you think might be great, shoot us a note. [email protected]. Let us know, Tweet us, post us, Facebook us, whatever. If you like what you heard, leave us review. Thanks to Steven Byrom @stevenbyrom our awesome producer. We'll back next week, another episode. Stay healthy, stay strait on keep going on the path that is yours, and yours alone, and we'll talk to you. Bye

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at shankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week!

Hey guys! Peter Shankman the host of Faster Than Normal here. I wanna invite you to something! I am hosting a Mastermind with 12 amazing speakers who are gonna be talking about everything from ADHD to mental health, from entrepreneurship, to just living your life better. It's gonna be on November 10th, It's gonna be virtual from anywhere in the world. Incredible, incredible speakers. The leading fitness trainer in Canada for all things. Me! A whole bunch of speakers- Scott Carney, who wrote the book which is to all about how he goes and takes ice showers every day. It's gonna be 12 amazing speakers, the CBS Early Shows' Jennifer Hartstein, really, really great people. And I'd like you to join us. Check out the link below in the show notes at ShankMinds 2022 and we will see you there. And a matter of fact, look for the discount code in the show notes as well, that'll take a hundred bucks off the cost. We'll see you soon! https://shankman.lpages.co/shankminds-virtual-2022/ DISCOUNT CODE: SMFriends22

Currently pursuing a Doctor of Pharmacy degree at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Camille completed dual Bachelor of Science degrees in Biochemistry and Systems Biology with honors at Virginia Tech in 2018. Breaking from tradition, Camille blew up the onstage talent competition with a highly engaging and entertaining version of the "catalytic decomposition of hydrogen peroxide," winning Miss Virginia in June of 2019 and then Miss America in December 2019 live on NBC. While competing for the job, Camille Schrier wanted it known that "Miss America can be a scientist and a scientist can be Miss America." Through her time as Miss America and beyond, Camille has focused on advocating for her social initiative "Mind Your Meds: Drug Safety and Abuse Prevention from Pediatrics to Geriatrics" with a major focus on the opioid epidemic, as well as for exciting youth in the areas of STEM. In 2021 Camille launched her own science educational brand, "Her Royal Scientist," which furthers her goal to inspire and educate youth and normalize females in science roles. She also works to raise awareness around Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, a genetic condition that impacts her life each day. Today's episode is important to literally anyone who has ever been given a prescription. Enjoy!

In this episode Peter and Camille discuss:

01:26 - Thank you so much for listening and for subscribing!

02:14 - Intro and welcome Camille Schrier!

03:30 - Ref: Margaret Hamilton's Apollo code

03:54 - Women in STEM [Science Technology Engineering Math/Medicine]

04:56 - On Imposter Syndrome and growing up in public education without many neurodiverse role models

05:47 - On a non "A+B+C= 'this or that'" approach to goal-setting and systemic education

06:40 - There is no one 'right way' for everyone to do something. We are unique.

07:00 - How did you wind-up winning Miss America, was it a goal? A note on risk taking

09:17 - How did your initiative "Mind Your Meds" come about and get started?

11:00 - Eyes open about medication use in the collegiate community Ref: Safe-RX

13:53 - So much about prescription drugs has become perception, not actual awareness of what they may, and may not do!

15:40 - Adderall and co-morbidities

16:00 - Talk to your peers and kids, not everyone reacts the same!

18:00 - In the neurodiverse community we are even more at risk of addiction, if not misuse.

19:04 - How can people find more about you? Web: www.CamilleSchrier.com

Socials: @CamilleSchrier everywhere. Twitter INSTA FB YouTube LinkedIN

19:20 - Guys, as always thanks so much for subscribing! Do you have a cool friend with a great story? We'd love to hear. I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via email at [email protected] or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse!

19:40 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

—

TRANSCRIPT via Descript and then corrected.. somewhat:

Hey guys. Peter Shankman the host of Faster Than Normal here. I wanna invite you to something! I am hosting a Mastermind with 12 amazing speakers who are gonna be talking about everything from ADHD to mental health, from entrepreneurship, to just living your life better. It's gonna be on November 10th, It's gonna be virtual from anywhere in the world. Incredible, incredible speakers. The leading fitness trainer in Canada for all things. Me! A whole bunch of speakers- Scott Carney, who wrote the book which is to all about how he goes and takes ice showers every day. It's gonna be 12 amazing speakers, the CBS Early Shows' Jennifer Hartstein, really, really great people. And I'd like you to join us. Check out the link below in the show notes at ShankMinds 2022 and we will see you there. And a matter of fact, look for the discount code in the show notes as well, that'll take a hundred bucks off the cost. We'll see you soon! https://shankman.lpages.co/shankminds-virtual-2022/

—

[00:01:26] Peter: Hey guys. Peter Shankman here. Welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal, it is a thrill to have you as always. It is another Monday when I do all my FTN interviews for the month. We are talking to Camille Schrier today, and I will tell you a little bit about her in a second. Uh, as you heard from the ad, there is a conference coming up on November 11th. I would love to see you there. Um, there should be a discount code in the uh, show notes, use it. You'll get a hundred bucks off and hear from 12 amazing speakers and me, so if you haven't had enough, there's even me. So that'll be fun. November 11th, virtually wherever you are in the world. All right, cool. It is Monday. It is gray and yucky outside, but that's cool cause we're talking to a ray of, of sunshine and light today. Camille Schrier is currently pursuing a doctor of pharmacy degree at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond. She completed a dual Bachelor of Science degrees in Biochemistry and Systems biology with Honors of Virginia Tech in 2018. Oh, and she was Miss America in December, 2019. Uh, so yeah, there's that. She won Miss Virginia and June, 2019. Miss America, in December of 2019. You've probably seen her on YouTube where her, on stage talent competition was an entertaining version of the catalytic decomposition of hydrogen peroxide. Very, very cool stuff. I actually had seen that on YouTube before she came to my attention. Uh, it is wonderful to have you here, Camille. Thanks for so much for taking the time today.

[00:02:52] Camille: Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me and making me sound way cooler than I really am in real life.

[00:02:58] Peter: So, you know, you sort of broke the mold in that regard. You, you, you came up and, and you said, Okay, I'm gonna show the world that girls can be scientists, right? That, that women can do these things and it doesn't, You can mix and match. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I always look back at. Amazing photo from NASA where I was, when I was serving on the NASA Civilian Advisory Council. They sent me this, they showed me this photo. They have framed, it's the woman who wrote the majority of the code for, uh, the Apollo 11 landing. And, um, she's standing on a, uh, next to a stack of code that's literally like taller than her, right? And, and it was just, You know, you never Yeah. A woman did that. And, and I love as a, as a father of a nine year old daughter, I love that, you know, I'm talking to you and I'm gonna have my daughter, Jessa listen to this podcast because you're showing girls, um, my daughter's age and beyond that there is so much they can do. There's nothing they can't do, and, and you're doing it a lot better than me, as her dad ever could. .

[00:03:54] Camille: Well, thank you. And I think even more than that, I mean, we know that women can be scientists. There's probably more women than ever Yeah. In STEM careers. But I think one of the things that I have realized as I've progressed through my own career is that it's not always normal to see a very feminine woman, exactly. In the sciences, and maybe women feel like they have to conform to kind of be like their male counterparts or maybe are afraid to express their femininity in a lot of those fields. And so bringing the science into something that is traditionally a feminine role like Miss America was a really interesting way to break that mold open even more, and show people that you can do whatever you want. And I think that's something that even defies gender is just embracing who you are and doing it on purpose and being fearless in every single thing that you do. And so hopefully it inspired, um, young girls, young men and beyond.

[00:04:54] Peter: Well, it's interesting you bring that up because one of the things about ADHD is imposter syndrome and, and this concept that, You know, you are consistently broken and no matter what you've done, it's all been luck and you don't really have the skill to do anything. And I grew up with that, um, uh, through no fault of anyone but my own. I mean, you know, my parents were, were constantly supportive. But, you know, I grew up in an environment, in a school system, uh, public school system, which was, you know, you're different. And so you're being, you're being, uh, uh, uh, you're disobeying and, and you're, you're breaking the rules and you gotta be like everyone else. And it took me probably till. You know, late thirties, uh, to, to sort of get over that. And I think that, that, um, the more role models we have who can show that there is no one way to do anything right, I think is, is better for the world as a whole. And I see that, I see that, uh, you know, with, with what you've done. I see that more and more today, which gives me a little bit of hope.

[00:05:47] Camille: I think we do need that because we're, we're taught to follow directions. Yeah. Right. And that's what we're seeing at, That's how we are shown success is, is you do these certain things and you get success. If you go through a certain amount of education, if you do these leadership activities and get extracurriculars and get a certain gpa, then you get X, Y, or z. And I think that often as young people working on this formula, that's not necessarily allowing us to embrace what makes us unique. Sometimes we can do that in that situation, but it's often really hard. And I've struggled because I want to do things the right way, but there is no right way to do things. I've always been really focused on doing things, um, at the most, at the highest level of achievement and success and getting to a certain level. Um, but I've forgotten a lot about what I want in that, and I think imposter syndrome is so real in what I have experienced. My becoming Miss America wasn't a longtime goal. I literally signed up for a competition that was two weeks away that went to Miss Virginia. And I was like, This will be fun. Let's do it. . And I won. And then eight weeks later I won Miss Virginia and six months later I won Miss America. And I was like, how did I end up here? Right? And did I deserve this? How? How did I. How did I successfully make my way through this in doing something that was totally different than anyone else had done before, but actually winning Miss America by doing something vastly different than anyone else had done was the best reward in taking a risk and doing something different than I had ever had in my life. Yeah, because I was always afraid to take a risk because what if it goes wrong? Right. But ultimately, if it went wrong, I would just come home as not Miss America. Exactly. So, The odds were pretty good to have a good experience, and it rewarded my creativity and my ability to try something new that then set me on a path to wanna do that more in my professional life.

[00:07:48] Peter: Well, that's one of the things that I try to explain to, uh, people, you know, especially the kids. And, and you know, when they, when they read my book and then, and they, they reach out is, you know, the concept that, that, that being the, the, the worst, the biggest risk it said is not taking one. Right. And, and the concept. you can do something and fail or you cannot do it, and you'll be in the same place if you failed. Yeah. So the only option you have that breaks you out of that is to try it, you know? And I, I love, I love that. Cause I think that that, you know, again, I didn't have that mentality. It was funny. I didn't have the mentality as a kid yet. I was always different. So it was like I was, I was fighting, I was swimming upstream, I was fighting against that. And once I embraced it, You know, the whole world opened up and so I sort of think you're doing that as well.

Um, so Miss America can be a scientist and a scientist can be Miss America. I love that. Tell me about, um, mind your meds. So, you know, when I was growing up and we talked about the offline, when I was growing up, the, uh, the concept of medication for ADHD or anything like that, really. Kids didn't really take meds. Um, they took medication if they were sick, I get, get penicillin, right? Whatever, you know, or Sudafed and I, but it wasn't, I, I grew up, I guess in an earlier time in the eighties we didn't have that. We had cigarettes and um, you know, I once I, and they were healthy back then, so it's fine. But, um, you know, I look at, I look at. Today I have, I have, I have friends who have kids in college and, and they're like, Yeah, the, the kids, the kids pass around, uh, Adderall, like it's candy. And, you know, that's not necessarily a good thing. Um, so talk about Mind Your Meds. Where did it come from, the concept? Uh, how, how'd you get to where it is?

[00:09:16] Camille: Sure there's such a huge problem related to pharmaceuticals and medications in the country. And as a doctor of pharmacy student, I wanted to choose a cause that I would represent as Miss Virginia and Miss America that was something I was passionate about, but also something that I felt like would affect every person that I came across, that would be relevant to every individual in some way. And I feel. All of us have either taken a medication or have known someone who's taken a medication in their lives. We all have kind of lived that or taken even just a over the counter medication at some point. And when I went through my pharmacy education, I started to realize how easy it is to make mistakes, to take things improperly, the dangers of medications that are even over the counter. Let alone things that are prescription or controlled substances, the risks that can come along with those things, and how we can really do things that are very easy to prevent, um, harm and misuse and things that damage our communities essentially. So I wanted to focus on medication safety as one big piece of what I do. But then on the other side, there's also an issue with substance use disorders in this country. With stimulants, with opioids and many other substances, um, both prescription and illicit. And I saw more and more of that as time went on. Now I spend a lot of time talking about the opioid epidemic, which is one that has just drastically increased over the past 20 years for a lot of different reasons, but is really running rampant, uh, in our communities and is, is killing people at a level that I've, I never would've anticipated, but is really sad. So, Looking back at kind of all of the things that I have gotten to do. You mentioned stimulants and when I was growing up, I can't really even remember a lot of my peers taking stimulants for, for diagnoses like adhd. Now I went to school, like elementary school, middle school, in the early two thousands. So a little bit after, but still not that long ago I do feel like as time has gone on, it's become more popular. Right? Um, and. I will say when I got into college was the first time where I really saw medications being misused in my, with my own eyes. And it was always stimulant medications. And I think as someone who's looking at ways, uh, That people can be proactive with medication safety. I feel like if you have a prescription medication, especially controlled substance like a stimulant, you have to be a responsible steward of that sub of that substance. It is your responsibility to take control of that and prevent others from potentially being harmed by that. And so I've actually teamed up with a company called Safe- RX who produces locking pill viles. Mm. And that's just like an easy tool that I can recommend to families to kind of secure these medications, either at home or or students taking them to college. I talk a lot about children accidentally taking medications because they don't know what they are. They think that they're candy, making sure that you are locking up medications, keeping them up and away from children, being a safe steward of medications. These are all things that can not only keep people safe, but prevent misuse, prevent substance use disorders from coming up in our communities. It's all a cycle, and I think that it needs to be talked about more. It's not really an educational topic that I heard a lot about when I was in school and that I still don't really hear a lot about. And so I think, you know, as a pharmacy student, pharmacists have such a unique perspective and role in being a medication safety expert, and that's why I'm excited to be a pharmacist as well.

[00:13:06] Peter: That's a wonderful answer. I remember in the eighties, uh, you'd come home from school at like 3:00 PM and you'd watch like cartoons or whatever, and there was always a really, really bad. Like cringy commercial called pills aren't candy. And I don't know if you, I don't know if you had that in the 2000's by the way. I, I, I died a little bit when you said, you know, I, Yeah, I went to school in the two early two thousands. I just, I'm sorry. Died a little bit . Um, I had, I had someone I was watching, uh, TikTocs with my daughter and, uh, There was one where a woman goes, uh, you know, the, the older generation on TikTok, you know, the ones like born in the late nineties. I'm like, You, we, you're,

[00:13:39] Camille: I've seen that it even made me cringe

[00:13:41] Peter: everyone's app, right? Yeah. I'm deleting off everyone's phone right now, . But um, but yeah, no, I remember the we are not candy thing and, and it's, and it's true. I mean, as a, you know, I had the conversation with my daughter years ago, you know, this is anything in a bottle that looks like this or whatever. You don't, you don't take anything you don't know. You don't take anything. I haven't. Yeah. And, and, um, the interesting, interesting thing about the lock. You know, I wonder if it's, if it's also a peer pressure thing in the respect that, oh, you know, dude, can I, can I score that off you, can I tell, you know, score real, And it's a, kids that I've talked to don't necessarily look at it as medication. They look at it as a, as finals help. You know, there's a difference in, in, in how you look at it.

[00:14:20] Camille: I think that you're absolutely right and that's how I saw it used in students that were trying to stay up all night Yes. And study, and that it was really a commodity instead of a prescription medication that genuinely helps people Yeah. That have disorders like ADHD and is extremely effective in that. Um, I do feel like what you're saying is very true and, and potentially even putting something in a container like a locking pill vile could mentally even make that seem like less of a commodity and something that should be protected. Um, and obviously I don't think there's studies along what that impact might be for students, but I think just looking anecdotally, that would be something that I'm sure that my peers probably would think differently about when I was in college. Uh, instead of just this, Oh, can I get one of these off of you? Which really surprised me, even though I'm a little bit straight edge to begin with. But seeing students talking about in group messages of like, Oh, does anyone have an Adderall? I have an exam tomorrow. Um, Really bothered me to my core because I just felt like it was so wrong. Um, and so risky from a medical perspective as well, because patients and students that have comorbidities who maybe they don't even know that they have yeah, an issue, maybe they have an undiagnosed cardiovascular problem that they don't know about, and taking a medication could, could really be detrimental for them. There's so many things that go into making sure that a medication is right for a patient. But if that, that's why these medications are prescription, because there's a prescriber that's evaluating all these different things. And I really wanna stress if there's parents listening, to have those candid conversations with your students about what the, what the ultimate risks of this medication could be for them and for other people around them and the importance of keeping that to yourself. And the also the importance of not taking anyone else's medications. Especially I have to, to emphasize in the time of fentanyl. Yeah. When we are not sure what is in any pill that we take, we aren't sure that a pill that someone gives us is actually from whatever they say that it's from. It could be a pill that was produced, uh, not in a pharmaceutical manufacturing facility that could be cut with fentanyl and could lead to an overdose. There are so many risks taking any type of medication or any substance from anyone I believe. Playing Russian roulette right now. And so that's a continued conversation outside of just protecting your own prescription, but emphasizing to everyone, students, children, adults, and beyond that we have a huge problem in this country with opioids and with fentanyl that is now coming into other pieces of, of the, um, kind of drug scene maybe in the stimulant sector with, um, methamphetamines and beyond, which is a deadly, a deadly consequence that could happen. And I, I hate to be dramatic and I know that sometimes I sound like a broken record in that, but it's a one decision that you could potentially make that you cannot correct. Right. And that is something that I really emphasize to everyone that I meet because it's, it really. It goes beyond just, Oh, I made a mistake and I'm gonna apologize. And it's unfortunate. So, uh, I do think that it's so important for us to not only be safe stewards, but have those conversations, have candid conversations with people, um, because these medications are also really difficult to get, specifically when we're talking about stimulants, right? And part of those reasons that they're difficult to get is because people misuse them. And so, uh, not contributing to that and making it more difficult for people that need those medications to access them, um, that's not gonna help us.

[00:18:05] Peter: Well, what's interesting about that is, you know, especially, um, when you are neurodiverse, when you're a d d, when you're adhd, studies have shown you have much higher, uh, addiction prevalence, right? And, and so putting yourself deliberately, putting yourself into harm's way in that regard is something kids don't think about in their, you know, late teens, early twenties, and, You know, look down the road 10, 20, 30 years, where do you wanna be? So, there's no question about it. It's really, really cool. Camille, I, I gotta, we gotta cut it off for time, but I would love to have you back at some point. This is wonderful.

[00:18:36] Camille: Oh my gosh. I would love to come back and talk about this. Thank you so much for having, uh, a great conversation about, uh, these issues. And they're so, they're so prevalent and I, it really upsets me that we, we see this growing rather than getting better. But I think having conversations like these are the way that we end.

[00:18:52] Peter: How can we, uh, how can people find you?

[00:18:54] Camille: So you can find me on any social media platform at Camille Schrier my first and last name. Uh, you can also find mr at www.camilleschrier.com. [ www.CamilleSchrier.com @CamilleSchrier everywhere: Twitter INSTA FB YouTube LinkedIN]

[00:19:04] Peter: Awesome. Camille Schrier, thank you so very much for taking the time.

[00:19:07] Camille: Thank you!

[00:19:08] Peter: Guys as always. We'll back next week with another amazing interview. Our thanks to our guest, Camille Schrier our thanks to Steven Byrom who produces this end every episode, and is just an awesome all around human being and I hope you have a wonderful week. We will see you guys soon. Take care.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at shankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week!

Hey guys. Peter Shankman the host of Faster Than Normal here. I wanna invite you to something! I am hosting a Mastermind with 12 amazing speakers who are gonna be talking about everything from ADHD to mental health, from entrepreneurship, to just living your life better. It's gonna be on November 10th, It's gonna be virtual from anywhere in the world. Incredible, incredible speakers. The leading fitness trainer in Canada for all things. Me! A whole bunch of speakers- Scott Carney, who wrote the book which is to all about how he goes and takes ice showers every day. It's gonna be 12 amazing speakers, the CBS Early Shows' Jennifer Hartstein, really, really great people. And I'd like you to join us. Check out the link below in the show notes at ShankMinds 2022 and we will see you there. And a matter of fact, look for the discount code in the show notes as well, that'll take a hundred bucks off the cost. We'll see you soon! https://shankman.lpages.co/shankminds-virtual-2022/. DISCOUNT CODE: SMFriends22

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Cool interview today with a content creator and health care provider who is recently diagnosed with ADHD, yet survived school without knowing what was going on with her brain! She turned to the internet to let people know that they are not alone, and to be helpful to others! A little more about our guest today in her own words: Karrisa Cardenas is a mental health content creator, Singer songwriter, entrepreneur and the host of her very own podcast called "Finding Your Mind" and of course shares her life through the lens on her YouTube channel. She has faced many challenges in her life along side her ADHD such as depression, anxiety, daddy issues, abuse and so much more. She has used all she has been through as inspiration to keep creating, creating for those who don't have anyone to go to and are facing these challenges alone. She shares her dark times to bring awareness. Letting those who listen know that its okay not to be okay and there is a light at the end of the tunnel, its just going to take a while to get there. Little back story on my life. I grew up very fast at a young age, had to take care of my mother most of my life and my father was never in the picture. Throughout my younger years I was faced with traumas that shape who i am today, which is why i create content around mental health and ADHD, i never had anyone to tell me what was going on with me so i had to figure it out all by myself. I didn't have the luxury of doctors to help me. I was simply on my own with my mind. How scary, but also so freaking beautiful. Those were some tough years to go through but man on man am i such a wonderful human because of it. I have had my fair share of jobs such as coaching cheerleading, installing stoves and pools, Retail, Fast food, Waitressing, Barista, Nursing Assistant, Assistant manager of a non profit, and no i didn't get fired from these jobs i quit because my ADHD was bored after learning everything in those positions. A few fun facts about our guest: Never reads the last chapter in a book. Chocolate milk + popcorn always. Sits criss cross apple sauce in chairs. From a small town called Kelso. Left handed -which is a super power too. Enjoy!

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In this episode Peter and Karrisa discuss:

01:26 - Thank you so much for listening and for subscribing!

01:45 - A note about the Boxing command: "duck!!"

02:22 - Intro and welcome Karrisa Cardenas!

04:51 - What made you want to share your stories with the public?

06:20 - On what happened after she first shared

07:00 - Haters gonna hate. How did you press forward?

08:52 - Karrisa, wise beyond her years and dealing with bad words people say

10:20 - On wishing healing

10:48 - How do you come up with your ideas for content?

11:53 - How often to you post? You grew up "social", but how much of your life do you actually share. How do you set up boundaries?

14:00 - You've had all sorts of jobs. How do you make a living, or how did you starting out?

16:00 - On having a back-up plan/safety chute

16:46 - Are you a night owl and why do you have to chase popcorn with chocolate milk?

17:49 - We are kind of unique in that we both are doing this to help others. Where does this come from in you? Why do you do this?

20:04 - How can people find more about you? Web: LinkTree Finding Your Mind Podcast

Socials: @karrisamarieofficial on INSTA Facebook and YouTube

20:27 - Guys, as always thanks so much for subscribing! Do you have a cool friend with a great story? We'd love to hear. I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via email at [email protected] or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse!

20:55 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

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TRANSCRIPT via Descript and then corrected.. somewhat:

Hey guys. Peter Shankman the host of Faster Than Normal here. I wanna invite you to something! I am hosting a Mastermind with 12 amazing speakers who are gonna be talking about everything from ADHD to mental health, from entrepreneurship, to just living your life better. It's gonna be on November 10th, It's gonna be virtual from anywhere in the world. Incredible, incredible speakers. The leading fitness trainer in Canada for all things. Me! A whole bunch of speakers- Scott Carney, who wrote the book which is to all about how he goes and takes ice showers every day. It's gonna be 12 amazing speakers, the CBS Early Shows' Jennifer Hartstein, really, really great people. And I'd like you to join us. Check out the link below in the show notes at ShankMinds 2022 and we will see you there. And a matter of fact, look for the discount code in the show notes as well, that'll take a hundred bucks off the cost. We'll see you soon! https://shankman.lpages.co/shankminds-virtual-2022/

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Welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal. My name is Peter Shankman. I am thrilled to be joining you today. I am a little more hyper than normal. I just took, literally just came back from a boxing class over at Victory Boxing, Victory Boxing on 37th Street off of 10th Avenue and holy. Um, it's normally, I, you know, you get one of the coaches one of the day. No, this was the owner who's a pit, or, Hey, let's, let's spar for a bit. Kicked my ass. Into next week. So I am high as a kite on dopamine an adrenaline right now, but oh my God, in three hours, I'm not going to be able to move. He's like, you know, it's funny when you're, when you're, when you're boxing and you're thinking about that next punch, whatever you all you hear are like the punch calls. And he's like, you know, he's like, um, jab cross, left hook, right hook upper cut, left upper cut right. And then he throws duck. And you're staying like an idiot who goes, Oh, is there a duck somewhere? And you could hit in the side of the head. So it has been, it was a fun hour, but oh my God, I'm gonna be hurting in a few. So anyway, with that said, thrilled that you're here and I want you to meet Karrisa Cardenas, so I might be on Instagram. As you know, as a matter of fact, both my mother and my daughter's mother, I'm pretty sure called Child Protective Services on me this morning because I videoed with a 360 Insta Cam I video. I put it on top of my helmet and videotaped or, or, or recorded, uh, the 2.7 mile scooter ride that I take every morning when I take my daughter to school and. You didn't realize how scary that ride is until you look at it on a 360 video and you're like, Wow, that truck nearly killed me. That other truck nearly killed me. Oh, that's 17 trucks. Oh, there's a school bus nearly, and a city bus nearly killed me. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that that Child Protect service is gonna bust in any minute and, and take my daughter away from you. But either way, it was totally worth it and great video. So I'm on Instagram a lot. I love creating content, and of course I love absorbing content, and Instagram knows this and they treat me, uh, incredibly well because of it. In other words, they, they cater to my wants and my needs because it means I stay on longer like a good little boy, which is exactly what they need for their advertising. Well, that being said, I came across Carissa Cardenas. She's a mental health content creator. Okay? She's a singer songwriter, entrepreneur. Hosted a very own podcast called Finding Your Mind, and she shares her life through the lens, through the lens on her YouTube channel. She's faced a ton of challenges in her life. She has depression, anxiety, and this is her words, Daddy issues, abuse, and so much more. And she's used all of this as an inspiration to keep creating, to create for those who don't have anywhere to go and don't have anyone to talk to and are facing those challenges alone. I love this. She shares her dark times to bring awareness, letting those who listen know that it's okay not to be okay. And even though it might take a long time to get there, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, she tells me, I'll talk to you about her backstory. I'll ask her about it and I'll let her speak in a second but she, she has a really interesting backstory, um, that has shaped who she is. And, and I think it's wonderful. And she, she put fun, I love when people do this in her bio, she put a bunch of fun facts. So we're gonna read the, the last five minutes, we're gonna two minutes. We're gonna read those out and have her define those. Karrisa, welcome to Faster Than Normal!

[00:04:24] Karrisa: Hello.

[00:04:26] Peter: I am thrilled that you're here. I love the videos you create. They're so honest, they're so straightforward, and I, I first found you because I'm, I look another ADHD creator and I'm like, Goddammit, another ADHD creator who's getting like 20 times as many likes as me, and this is pissing me the hell off. So obviously we'll talk about how you're, you know, what your, what your system is because you're, you're creating incredible content. But what originally drew you to say, Hey, I'm gonna tell my story in public and, and, and love it or hate it here it is?

[00:04:54] Karrisa: Uh, well, to be honest, uh, in 2015 is kind of where it all started and, uh, I started making video content on Facebook actually. And, uh, I started that because I was very alone growing up. And I faced all these traumas and these issues throughout my life that I just felt so alone and I didn't go to therapy and I didn't know what was wrong with me. Everyone told me that I like, had issues and I was so, you know, angry and all these things. So I just felt very alone and very scared. So I decided one day to pick up the camera and, well, it's actually my phone. It was my, I think it was with my flip phone to be honest, and I started recording on it. And I was like, You know what, I'm just gonna share like a diary. So I sat there and I shared all of my, uh, daddy issues and my anxiety and all that stuff in like different video forms. And this was when I was like, what, 18, 19. So I was like going through it and I, I recorded everything in my vehicle and and I sat there and I was like, you know, I'm gonna do this for other people because I never had help and I never, you know, got anyone. Relate to, and so I just decided one day I was like, I'm, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna scarily share everything that I've been through, even though it might be tmi. I just need someone else to hear it.

[00:06:18] Peter: And it sort of blew up from there.

[00:06:20] Karrisa: Yeah, so it went from that and then of course, you know, doubts and insecurities got into into my bloodstream and it decided to, uh, make me not post for a while. And then I decided, okay, this is really what I wanna do with my life. So I decided to start a podcast instead cuz it was just so much easier than having to edit video and I always have to look nice on video, so I just decided to do it, podcast, and then it started to slowly take off and then it did randomly and I was like, Holy moly, this is it. Uh, I really gotta, I really gotta do this now. You know? So it was really awesome.

[00:06:55] Peter: You know, it's interesting, let talk for a second about you stopped creating content when you started getting like, what haters and things like that.

[00:07:01] Karrisa: Yeah, I, I stopped as people would just tell they were ugly. They were so ugly.

[00:07:07] Peter: Now here's the thing, I mean, that's not, that's never changed. I mean, I, I posted that video this morning of the ride to school, and then I went and into my boxing class and I came out and they're like, About 20 comments and at least four of them were like, Oh, I'm never coming to New York. Fuck New York. There's a, you know, it's full of Democrats. Okay, well, you know, you're obviously meet people like that. And then you get the, Oh wow, you know, we gonna put your kid in the harm's way in the middle of the time, square traffic. I'm like, Okay, I'm much better scooter than you, whatever. But, you know, I, I feel, I feel like I'm 50, right? I, I've had 20 years of giving corporate keynote speeches in front of 20,000 people where I. I'm still kind of, I'm mostly over the haters, but you never truly get over them. You're a lot younger than me. Tell the audience what you did to get past it. Because that the haters and the, and the, and the, the, the, um, trolls, they kill about 95% of the, of the people who wanna create content and they just stop. And they don't wanna do that. And they, they, they leave a lot of stuff, beautiful stuff on the table, never wind up doing.

[00:08:04] Karrisa: Well, uh, yeah. I also was doing YouTube too, so I got all those like, hate comments. You should die. You sh you're ugly. You know, all of those beautiful things at a young age. So, um, I just kind of sat with myself and I really focused on what I wanted to do as a person and who wanted to be, and I had to realize that no one else's fucking opinion, excuse my language really mattered. And I had really had. Hone into myself and really believe in myself and really just not care at all about what anyone else has to say and just hyper focus on that and not even, I didn't look for comments like probably the first two years I got back into it because I was like, I don't need their opinions, whether it be good or not. I never replied to anyone's comments. I just focused on what I wanted to do.

[00:08:52] Peter: Let me ask you a question if you don't mind sharing how old are you?

[00:08:54] Karrisa: I'm 28.

[00:08:56] Peter: That is, I gotta give you such props for that because I remember I started my first company at 27, 26. Mm-hmm. and I sold it, it was a PR firm. I sold it at 29 to a larger agency. And I remember even at 29 thinking like the news went out that it was sold and there were all, you know, Oh, he probably couldn't, he probably just sold it for like, for nothing cuz you know, he couldn't, couldn't keep it up. And his parents probably like, you know, gave him money to start it and it. I remember, I remember like it was yesterday, reading that comment and being like, Wow, I must be nothing. You know? And, and this took years. It took years. I probably, I'm 50 now. Maybe, maybe a couple years ago I really stopped caring as much as I can. But you're still gonna care a little bit. I mean, it's really, I give you a lot of credit for that. It's really impressive. At your age to be able to get past that.

[00:09:42] Karrisa: Yeah. It's, it's a difficult thing though. And I mean, there it is always gonna be here. Like, it's even gonna get worse the bigger you get. Like it's just the way the world works. Yeah. But since I kinda, I grew up in, in social media, to be honest, uh, I started just to see, you know, these empty comments I like to say, because, you know, those people are going through stuff on their own and they're just using, you know, their hate towards you for comfort in a way. And it's just, it's an ugly thing. But I've, I put my. I mean, I put myself in their shoes to make sure like, Hey, listen, you, you know, they're probably suffering from anxiety, traumas, like all of these things. And you know, they're just hating. They shouldn't, but they're just hating. Cause that's all they know.

[00:10:20] Peter: Right. Don't, don't wish anger on them. Wish, wish, wish, healing.

[00:10:24] Karrisa: Yeah. That's, that's just what I do.

[00:10:26] Peter: That's impressive. Again, that's really impressive. I still, I mean, I wish healing on them, but I still go to the boxing gym and beat the show to some bags every you, every day. Of course. Gotta do that.

[00:10:33]Karrisa: Of course.

[00:10:34] Peter: So, let's talk about the kind of content you create when you, when you're posting mental health. I mean, there are a ton of mental health, you know, content creators out there and not, not the majority of them are not getting anywhere near as well as you. Um, So do you listen to your audience? Do you take advice from your audience? Do you, do you, do you listen to their feedback and incorporate that into future posts? How do you come up with your ideas?

[00:10:54] Karissa: Uh, I honestly haven't done that. Like I get a lot of, uh, messages about saying, you know, like all the things that I've posted that have helped them or, you know, opened their eyes or something like that, which is so amazing. But I kind of just focus on what I feel at the time. So I'll be sitting, let's just say I'm at, sitting at my desk and I just have this urge to talk about a specific topic. I'll just do it. At random. Like, I haven't got to the point where I, like, I take feedback yet just because I want to, I want to stay with this momentum that I've got, and usually feedback with my ADHD and everything makes my brain go freaking nuts. Uhhuh. Like, I just, I can't focus. So then I'm like, Oh crap. Did I say the right thing? Did I do the right thing for these people? Or they, you know, So I just hyperfocus on like what I need to say first, and then of course I, I listen to you know, comments later down the road and kind of incorporated into the next content I do create. But I mean, just hyper focus on, you know, how I'm feeling that day, to be honest.

[00:11:53] Peter: How often are you posting, uh, daily? So that brings up another interesting question. You, you said yourself, you're a child of social media. You grew up in this era. Um, you know, know, I, I thank God every day that camera phones and things of that nature didn't exist when I was in high school, I'd probably see somebody in jail and, you know, for you. You're, I guess it is perfectly normal that everything you do mm-hmm. is public. Yeah. Now, but here's a question. It looks like everything of what you do is public to what percent of things that you do are public? Like, you know, I'm sure you still have a private life that you don't necessarily share.

[00:12:27] Karrisa:Yeah. Uh, I would say I only share about 10%.

[00:12:31] Peter: And how do you, do you set up boundaries for yourself so that you don't overshare or that you don't, You know, I, I remember probably 15 years ago writing a multi tweet Twitter rant, and this is before you could like, collect, connect, the tweets was much harder. And it was basically me bitching about something that I, I really didn't need to be bitching about, and I sent it and learned a valuable lesson that night. Right. You don't necessarily need to share every damn thing. Yeah. So how are you, how are you aware of that? What are you doing to make sure that you're, you know, okay, this is something that might be interesting, but I'm not gonna sit here and bitch for the next three hours about whatever.

[00:13:04] Karrisa: Uh, to be honest, I . I wish I had more of a filter. Uh, but I don't, And so the only thing that I really set boundaries towards is talking about politics, to be honest, because, you know, it's just one of those things that I just don't wanna get into on, you know, the internet because I would just get wrecked to be honest. So I just kinda set boundaries with that and I just, Almost everything. I am very open. I'm an open book, and if people hate it, they hate it because there's, there's people out there that are suffering through things that, you know, if they don't have the connection with other people that they can talk to. So it's like, I'm gonna share all the ugly parts and this is more so when I. Was younger. So I'm sharing all of those issues, the abuse and stuff so that it could connect to the right people so that they can live a another day, to be honest. But, um, other than that, the boundaries I set are just political .That's it.

[00:14:02] Peter: Tell me about, so you've had several jobs. Yes. Right. And then I love this coaching, cheerleading, installing stoves and pools, retail, fast food, waitressing, barista, nursing assistant, assistant manager of a nonprofit. And no, and you make it clear, No, I didn't get fired from these jobs. I quit them all because my ADHD was bored after learning everything in those positions. So, yeah. And I get that. I had one job in my life and I'm like, No. But, um, you know, after, after the sort of magic wears off, right? At some point you gotta make a living. Yep. So what then?

[00:14:33] Karrisa: Uh, well, I, I guess I don't really share this, but I will. Um, so I do a lot of content creation, and I do get paid from all of that stuff, but, uh, I, I do have a core job, which is taking care of my mom, so I. Right now I take care of my mom and so I'm a certified nursing assistant. Okay. And that has been the, you know, the bill paying money, the I'm gonna be okay and I can step back and work on all of these things and Gotcha. You know, it, it's, it's a blessing to be honest, cuz not everyone gets to do this. Oh, totally. Or does a lot of people have to take care of their mom at a young age. So, I mean, like, that's kind of, you know, where, where I'm at, like, I don't work, other jobs anymore. I just create and it's so beautiful and I'm so blessed about it.

[00:15:19] Peter: You know, it's interesting. I, um, I, I, I look at my, I I look at a lot of kids who are, who are, you know, influencers, whatever, whatever they wanna call themselves. I hate that term. And, um, you know, they're, they're, they're creating all this kind of thousands and tens and thousand likes and thousand likes. And occasionally they, they, they do a partnership with someone or whatever. And I know the, I know the industry. I know damn well. Yes. They're not making enough for a Starbucks once a day. No. Right. With that. And yet you'll never see that, You know, you'll never, you'll never, uh, hear about the fact that, you know, they're, they're also working, uh, you know, 8:00 PM to 4:00 AM as a security guard or doing whatever just to pay the rent. Yep. Right. It's like the, um, Uh, the real versus Instagram, whether, you know, the, the, the Instagram is like everything is beautiful and then the camera pans over to the other side of the room where it's just like a mess. Yep. Right? And so it, it's interesting because you have a lot of people who are out there trying to create content and I would never tell anyone not to do it and give it a shot, kick ass on it. But I would say have a backup plan. Yeah, I, And it seems, it seems like you managed to pull that off. You do have a backup plan.

[00:16:17] Karrisa: Yes, I always do. I think it's just a security thing for me because, uh, growing up I didn't come from money, so having a backup plan has always been a thing. Like, I've been to college twice. I've been, you know, just thinking, Okay, what am I gonna do if this doesn't pan out? What if I'm, you know, like, but I have to also believe in it a hundred percent, or I'm not gonna give it my all. And I. So it's kind of like that fine line where you're like, Yes, I need to pay my bills, so I will work a nine to five, but I need to bust my ass doing the rest of this.

[00:16:46] Peter: Right. Are you a, um, are you a night owl? Yes. . I noticed that I, I saw the email came in around 2:00 AM so I figured, um,

[00:16:58] Karrisa: Yeah, Sorry about that, heh.

[00:16:58] Peter: Why do you have to eat? And this, this goes to the, your last paragraph. Why do you have to have chocolate milk when you eat popcorn? That's a weird combination?

[00:17:04] Karrisa: Oh, . Well, okay, see, Um, I don't know where it came from. I've always been a, a child of weird combinations and, uh, I just, I can't have popcorn without it because I don't know. I need to wash it down with something sweet and chocolate like so amazing. And when you pair the two, it it hands down the best. No one would try it. No one ever tried it. They're like,

[00:17:26] Peter: I'm gonna try. I'm totally gonna try it tonight actually. I have some of my kids chalk the milk. I'm totally gonna try it.

[00:17:30] Karrisa: There you go. I love that. Lemme know.

[00:17:32] Peter: And by the way, you're lefthanded as am I, as our most amazing people, so

[00:17:36] Karrisa: for real ?That's awesome actually.

[00:17:38] Peter: I love that. I love it. Always drives my boxing coach crazy cuz he always says he, he takes his original position and I go left. God damn it. He has to switch around. Yep. So, so I guess I'll, I'll, I'll close it with this. I wanna be respectful of your time when you, you know, you're creating content and putting stuff out there in a world, especially in social, that isn't always that nice if ever, Right? Mm-hmm. and looking at the stuff that you're talking about, which is mental health, you know, from the beginning, um, tells people that yeah, you've had your share of hits in, in your life. You've taken some hits, you've had some issues, you've had some problems. Yet your goal in all of this, it's still to help people who, who are never able to get help for this on their own. Yeah. And that's really kinda altruistic. Right. Most people are kind of like, No, fuck you, man. I'm gonna get mine. And, and, and you know, I'm gonna get it. I mean, we live in a world right now where, where 15 governors are trying to stop, um, uh, student loan debt cancellation because everyone should pay their own share. I'm like, Well, that's a dick move, right? Yeah. So, so you're sitting here going, No, I wanna help people out. And that's the exact same reason I, I wrote Faster Than Normal and do this podcast, but there aren't a lot of us. So at the end of the day, Your value system is, is pretty unique, right? You're sitting there going, No, I wanna help people. And and does that come from anyone? Did that come from what, what, You know, based on, on the history that you told me about yourself that you shared, um, it doesn't sound like you were helped a lot. So where'd that come from?

[00:19:05] Karrisa: Uh, that's exactly why is because I wasn't helped a lot. I wasn't guided and I wasn't told that what I was going through was normal or you know, cuz my ADHD was, I, I did, I just got diagnosed with it in 2020. So like I didn't have help realizing that, oh my God. Like I went through school and stuff thinking I was so stupid because I learned a different way than other people, but I never knew that, so no one told me. And like I just had to go through the motions of doing things alone. So when I got a little older to understand what I was actually facing. And I started doing research on my own. I was like, there are so many other Me's out there that need help that don't have the finances for it. And I was like, maybe I can just share some of my stories and it could help. And it's just helped me too because it helps me get out of my head and it creates this community of amazing people that need help. And I'm just here and I'm just like, wanna give everybody a hug? And I just want people to be better mentally and understand that it's okay not to be okay.

[00:20:04] Peter: Yeah. I love that. I love that. Very, very cool. Very, very cool. How can people to find you?

[00:20:10] Karrisa: Uh, they can find me on Instagram at Karissa Marie Official. You can find me also on YouTube as Karissa Marie and also my podcast, Finding Your Mind.

[00:20:21] Peter: Very cool. Leave all those in the show notes. Thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it today.

[00:20:25] Karissa: Thank you so much for having me. You're awesome dude.

[00:20:28] Peter: Guys, Faster Than Normal wants to hear what you think. Let us leave us a note, shoot me an email. We've gotten a lot of guests because you guys have written in and said, Hey, talk to this person. So if you have any people, we should talk to [email protected]. You know how to find me. We will see you next week. ADHD as Karissa has blatantly showed us today, is a gift, not a curse. And I will say that until the day I die. Stay tuned, keep in touch. We'll see you guys next week. Stay safe.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at shankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week!

Hey guys. Peter Shankman the host of Faster Than Normal here. I wanna invite you to something! I am hosting a Mastermind with 12 amazing speakers who are gonna be talking about everything from ADHD to mental health, from entrepreneurship, to just living your life better. It's gonna be on November 10th, It's gonna be virtual from anywhere in the world. Incredible, incredible speakers. The leading fitness trainer in Canada for all things. Me! A whole bunch of speakers- Scott Carney, who wrote the book which is to all about how he goes and takes ice showers every day. It's gonna be 12 amazing speakers, the CBS Early Shows' Jennifer Hartstein, really, really great people. And I'd like you to join us. Check out the link below in the show notes at ShankMinds 2022 and we will see you there. And a matter of fact, look for the discount code in the show notes as well, that'll take a hundred bucks off the cost. We'll see you soon! https://shankman.lpages.co/shankminds-virtual-2022/ DISCOUNT CODE: SMFriends22

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Southern California-born and bred Maitland Ward has quickly become one of the biggest stars in adult entertainment, after an-already successful career as an American model, actress and cosplay personality. After finding fame in the '90s on CBS soap The Bold and the Beautiful and smash ABC sitcom Boy Meets World, as well as a plum role in 2004's cult classic White Chicks, Ward decided to shake things up with racy social media content, sexy cosplay and appearing at fan conventions before making the leap into the adult film industry in 2019. The statuesque (5'10") all-natural redhead is unique in that not only is she beautiful and built for the adult biz, Ward's talent as an actress means she can also carry dramatic and comedic scenes with ease. Her playful energy, professionalism and open sexuality earned her an exclusive performance contract with Vixen Media Group and the famous face of the brand's blockbuster studio, Deeper.

In 2020, Ward won three AVN Awards for Best Supporting Actress, Best Three-Way Sex Scene-G/G/B for her work in Deeper feature Drive and Favorite Camming Cosplayer. She also won three XBIZ Awards for Crossover Star of the Year, Best Actress-Feature Movie and Best Sex Scene-Feature Movie, also for Drive. In 2021 she scored two AVN Awards as well: Best Leading Actress for Deeper's Muse, as well as Best Boy/Girl Sex Scene for Higher Power, plus two XBIZ Awards for Best Acting-Lead and Best Sex Scene-Feature for Muse, and in 2022 she took home two XBIZ trophies for Best Acting-Lead for Muse 2 and Performer of the Year.

Ward's recent mainstream endeavors include starring and co-producing a TV series, The Big Time, taking on a lead role in psychological thriller Just for You and releasing an eye-popping no-holds-barred memoir about her wild life in the entertainment biz, Rated X: How Porn Liberated Me from Hollywood.

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In this episode Peter and Maitland discuss:

00:40 - Thank you so much for listening and for subscribing!

01:00 - Intro and welcome Maitland Ward! IMDB bio

01:38 - So you're here in NYC promoting Rated X; let's talk about that!

02:00 - Despite all of your success at such a young age, you were not happy. Why?

04:00 - A lot of positive things have happened in the culture of Hollywood and beyond

04:45 - On hiding who you are, and why. A note on fear.

05:25 - When did you first realize, then decide you needed a change?

06:15 - About getting married an moving to NYC

06:50 - On figuring out that you're different

07:18 - Peter on how he explained to his father how he was quitting his day job

08:08 - When did you decide to make the switch from 'mainstream to 'adult' film? How did your peers react?

09:15 - About double standards

09:45 - Peter on breaking stereotypes for New Frontier Media at The Wall Street Journal

10:55 - How did it go when you started dipping your feet more into rated R, rated X Art?

12:28 - On building a fanbase in real time

14:00 - About her first full length feature and how that evolved

15:00 - How do you deal with the haters, how do you not focus on the bad reviews, trolls, etc?

15:55 - A tip about fan mail of any sort

16:55 - What's next for you?

17:35 - My how things have changed in twenty years, or even thirty!

18:52 - What do you do to get out of your head, to clear and re-center?

19:54 - Do you have any rituals or habits that must happen every day or else?

20:21 - How can people find more about you? Web: https://onlyfans.com/maitlandward

Socials: @MaitlandWard on Twitter INSTA FB and @Maitlandtoks on TikTok

Shout out to Brian at BSG Public Relations! @bsgpr on Twitter

20:57 - Guys, as always thanks so much for subscribing! Do you have a cool friend with a great story? We'd love to hear. I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via email at [email protected] or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse!

21:21 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

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TRANSCRIPT via Descript and then corrected.. somewhat:

[00:00:41] Peter: So Maitland, thank you for taking the time. I know you're on a busy schedule with your book tour in New York here.

[00:00:46] Maitland: Yes. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:47] Peter: How is New York, uh, treating you so far?

[00:00:49] Maitland: It's, it's been great. It's been a whirlwind, like, meeting with everybody and like, you know, just doing all of the, the. publicity, I guess you would say. It's, it's kind of like a machine. So I, I'm really having good time, but it's been very busy. I hope to have a little more like downtime to, to little freedom to go explore. More freedom.

[00:01:03] Peter: Yeah. We're, we're a good city. We're coming back. You know, Covid was a bit here, but I did not, I could have least how many people are here now.

[00:01:11] Maitland: Yeah. It's definitely came back. Cause I had come, uh, to film something like a, I guess it was a little over a year ago, and, It was pretty bad. Yeah. Things were shut down.

[00:01:20] Peter: Still in, I'm at the point my daughter's, my daughter's class, like half the kids and their parents like went to their second and third homes and all that. Right now they're all back. I'm like, I'm like you. I kind of feel like you should pay an extra 50% tax on everything because you went down, left your most right. You left us right. But yeah, we're coming back. It's nice to see the city getting, getting back into form. We're, we're a good place. Um, so you're, you're here promoting burning rated X. Yes. Let's, so let's talk about that. So you have. The majority of people in Delta Entertainment, you have backstory, you have a history. You came, um, in mainstream media, right? Yes. You started Boy Me World. Yes. And, and of course White. It's one of my favorites because my friend Marlon's in it. That's so cool. And, and you know, you, but you weren't happy.

[00:01:59] Maitland: Yeah, it was an interesting thing because I started acting very young, uh, like 16 years old. I was on a soap opera and, uh, it was, it was a whirlwind experience at the time, but I really felt like I had to be a certain way all the time in Hollywood. Like I had to be a good girl. I had to, you know, be straighten narrow, like really, you know, be nice. That was a big thing. Be nice, and it, I think that was a dangerous thing for a Woman to be taught, like make them like you be nice. So, um, so I was, but I felt like I was always denying certain parts of myself to. You know, accommodate other people and, and Hollywood, you know, I got very lucky early on that I got a lot of jobs and, and high profile jobs. Uh, especially like when I got Boy Meets World and I was, I really wanted to like please everybody at Disney and the producers and everything. And I, um, but it was weird because on the show I was this sort of, not a sex object, but she was very, The U undertones were sexual, I guess. Right. And she was always the one dancing around in lingerie.

[00:03:08] Peter: And like you spoke about that, teasing the boys,you mentioned that in the, both the concept and your articles, the concept that, you know, Yeah. Here's Disney. Right. You know, pure, pure bread, Disney. Yeah. Um, the, the, the likes of which we all all know who comes from Disney. Everyone. Everyone. Wonderful and happy. And then, Yet they were putting you in situations that today, I think if we looked at them under the eye of 2022, right. We

[00:03:24] Maitland: question. Oh, absolutely. Like, like I say in the book, how I had to go up to the producer's office to try on lingerie for my lingerie scenes. So, and like not just once. I mean, there was 20 people in there, whatever, a big group. Mostly men. Uh, pretty much all men except for maybe one or, um, and then I would have to try on all of it and like, and I thought that this was my job to do this, and I never, at the time, I didn't even 0cConceptualize that it was a weird thing or it was ski or it was anything wrong with it. But then today you look at that, if that happened today and it went on the internet or anything, people would be fired for it Yeah.

[00:04:00] Peter: . Yeah. And I think that, you know, in a lot of ways, everyone, everyone complains about cancel culture and complains that, that were too high strung. But a lot of things, positive changes have, have resulted from not only people like you speaking out, but you know, all the way back to the Weinstein and, and things like that. Yeah. But at, at the time that you were doing it again, you were under. Let's just be a good girl. Let's just do the nice thing. Yeah. I didn't wanna, like, was it, was there a fear there that if you, if you acted the way you wanted to or if you acted the way you were, the way you thought you were supposed to, you'd be gone?

[00:04:29] Maitland: Yes, definitely. Oh yeah, always. I had very much anxiety about that kind of stuff, like very much anxiety that I wouldn't do the right thing, I wouldn't be the right way, or I wasn't good enough for the situation and I. You know imposter syndrome. Yeah. May, Yeah, maybe. Yeah. . Yeah, I guess. But it was like, yeah, cuz I had to like kind of be this persona that I can't see all the time. I was not who I was like there, but in certain parts of myself, especially my sexuality and everything. And I had to hide like, Things that, you know, how I wanted to be exact cause I thought it was wrong or bad, or, you know, weird or, or they would judge me and come down on me.

[00:05:07] Peter: Fear is a great motivator. Not necessarily in a good way, but fear is a, you know, I don't wanna lose my job, I'm gonna conform despite what it's doing to your mental health. Yeah. Right, right. So as you moved on and as you had different roles and, and at, at some. Was there a, I guess was there a moment where you just said, F this?

[00:05:28] Maitland: I mean, was it, was it, did it come all at once or how did it, And it's interesting. Back at the time, I didn't think that it was having an effect on me in my mental health. Like I didn't conceptualize that. I thought it was just like there's something wrong with me that I. Wasn't doing things the right way, but, and looking back, writing the book, I really saw that in certain situations. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it was a long time, a long journey like finding myself, and it's interesting because of all, you know, pitfalls and disappointments that I had after I had a lot of success, like after white chicks and all that, when I was really typecast and things dried up and Hollywood would, they still wanted to keep me in the box that they had put me as a, like this good girl character, this, but they didn't wanna cast me cuz I was already a typecast character. Right. So, but they still wanted me there for like, whenever they needed a certain purpose for me, like a little episodic work or something like that. Um, so that became frustrating. So then I, I actually, that's when I moved to New York for a while. I got married and moved to New York. Okay. And it was kind of like a, it was a breath of fresh air to kind of get away from the Hollywood machine. I've heard that. Yeah. Because it was like, cuz when you're there you're just so caught up. Like, Oh, what, Who's going to this party? Right? What's this audition? Did you get that one? Like, did you book this one? And, uh, so, so getting away, I really like started to really discover myself and I started writing a lot and erotic writing. And I started really discovering my sexuality and stuff of, I guess not discovering it all the way Admitting it Okay. Is more of a thing because I think I knew all along that I, I, I just thought I was different and I thought I, like I say, I, I was a bad girl maybe inside , but, but I realized, you know, I'm not bad. It's kind of funny. My husband helped me realize that really. and he was very encouraging of me to explore this path that I really wanted to explore.

[00:07:17] Peter: I imagine so. I mean, I remember, and I, I guess I can't really equate much to it, but I've always imagined the, the day that I told my parents, I, I, I had one job in my life. I worked for, for America Online back in the nineties when, when a was the internet, right? Yeah. And I came back to New York and realized, They let us work anyway we wanted, which is why I did so well. My ADHD flourished cuz I was able to do, Oh, you wanna work at two in the morning? Great. As long as you get it done. Yeah. Yeah. Then I come back to New York and start working for a magazine and, and we have 8:00 AM meetings and 9:30 AM meetings and 10:00 AM editorial boards. And I'm like, What? This is Russia? And it, I, I quit within two. Yeah. And I remember telling my Dad, um, I'm gonna start my own PR firm and if it fails, and I actually said when it fails, when it fails, oh I'll get another. Cause I was so, who the hell am I to do anything, you know, entrepreneurial. And that was like 24 years ago. And I remember that was the scariest conversation I ever had have because I said, You know, I might need you to help pay my rent for a month or I might need what I didn't thank God, but you know, I got lucky and, and things were in. But tell us about the mindset when you decided you're gonna make this switch. You're gonna go from mainstream to adult, which to be, let's be fair, adult is kind of at this point, 2022, putting mainstream. Anyway,

[00:08:20] Maitland: that's why it's so weird to say both things and I know we have to differentiate kind of, but, But it is weird that we have to differentiate.

[00:08:25] Peter: Right? So tell me about, Because you, you wrote a really interesting piece that I really enjoyed about your interaction with Elizabeth Berkeley. Oh, yes, I was Right. So tell us about that.

[00:08:33] Maitland: First, It was a very quick interaction. Yeah, but it was an interesting one. I, it was right after like the news broke that I was, Doing this big porn film and stuff. And I was in the industry and everything and I was, you know, walking out of the Whole Foods. And I saw her off to the side and she looks at me like, you know, our white eyes and they got wider. And I was like, and she had, I, I don't know, I think it was her husband at the time. I don't know if there's still, I don't know the situation. It was a man with her. Right. Um, and she, she just looks at and she turns to him and like whispers something like this and he looks, and it was such a weird like, situation to have them be like, Look at me like some sort of a, you know, beast down in the wild.

[00:09:11] Peter: I'm sorry. And let's just, let's just be clear, this is Nomi Malone looking at you , right? This is the girl who, who went from Saved by the Bell, then Showgirls. So I'm, I'm not sure what she's actually looking at, where she comes off looking at you, everybody. So that really kinda pissed me off when I read that. The hell is she looking at you?

[00:09:25] Maitland: But it's a weird thing because once you go- when it's deemed adult, Right. It's different, right? Like in Hollywood films like now on like streaming shows and stuff, they go so close to it, of course.

[00:09:39] Peter: But, but they didn't go all the way. In 2003, um, I, I represented a company called New Frontier Media and, uh, New out of Denver, Ca, Boulder, Colorado, and New Frontier was the, this back in for porn was free, right? Yeah. Right. And, and, and they were the largest distributor of adult paperview on cable. Mm-hmm. . And I would go, I had my, I worked for them for four years and I took their stock price from like 99 to $10 because I forced my way into the Wall Street Journal and Forbes and Fortune. Mm-hmm. explaining, you know, I have a company who I'm repping, who is kicking the ass, their biggest competitor with Playboy. Yeah. By a factor of 10 x. Like, Oh, we great. They're adult. Oh, we can't touch that. I'm like, Why the hell not, not? It's so explaining when, and I got through and, and I remember getting New Frontier Media on the cover of Forbes was like, like the highlight. If that's my epi half right now. Yeah. The first porn company on Forbes. But, you know, but it was, it was the concept of, look, you, you, you're, it's one of those things that you're. Um, secretly. Yeah. Right. You're not gonna admit to it, but meanwhile, look at how much money is being driven. Yes. You know, let's, let's, let's look at something like Euphoria. Um, great show, but not really about the acting per se. Yeah. You know, there's, there's things we're looking at on that show that we know exactly what we're looking. Go onto Reddit. You're not gonna find, uh, uh, um, uh, reviews of the acting. You're gonna find one thing on your, you know, about your for. And so, so that being said though, it's a lot easier to say that then is to sort of tell us about, like, tell us about the day or whatever.

[00:10:56] Maitland: It was, the moment where, All right, I'm doing this and, and here we go. You know what, it wasn't like one certain moment. I mean it uh, it was cuz I started like exploring stuff on my social media sexy pictures and stuff. And this was along the time, by the time Girl Meet's World has spin enough appointments coming around, right? So there was a lot of attention and social media was really starting to really boom, like Instagram, especially in like Snapchat. And uh, so I started getting followers for like doing my sexy cosplay that I loved doing and doing bikini shots and all that stuff. Uh, but then I'd eventually. They started like taking down photos. Right. Actually, cuz a lot of people would complain for no reason to like these like fundamentalist types that watch, of course that are obsessed with like boy meets world being wholesome and wholesome and good and stuff. And uh, actually a lot of porn girls though suffer from people just,

[00:11:46] Peter: Oh, of course for that question.

[00:11:49] Maitland: Just taking their, I mean, look at the Visa MasterCard scenario. They had match ridiculous. Um, so I kind of, my, my fans were like, Well, why don't you just sell content? And I didn't know what content was really at the time. I mean, I kind of heard of it, so I, but I said, Well, maybe, And I said, I'll start, I'll start a Patreon account, right? It's, you know, they patrons of your art. And I was gonna do like Playboy-esque type photos. I, I started the page and I, I didn't even like, Um, announced it. I just like did it one night and I said, ah, close it. Then the next morning there was like 20 people in there and then so I announced it and by the end of the week there was like 2,800 people. I was like, What? They're gonna buy my nudes, a create content.

[00:12:23] Peter: Holy shit!

[00:12:24] Maitland: I know. And it was just like, then it kind of evolved from there. Cause I, I had been exploring like my sexuality and my writing and everything like that, so I was like, Oh, maybe I'll do. Girl, girl stuff then, and let's do this. And my fans responded and it was kinda like they were watch, they really were watching my journey along the way. Yeah. Like in real time. Um, and so then I, then I was like, What? You know, my husband and I had a big moment about when we said we're gonna have me do something with guys. So I, but I was so lucky. I found two guys in the porn industry who've been there so long, they were so professional. And they really like taught me along the way, like how would to do, this was a year and like almost a year and a half period before I got like a call from Vixon to do. Right. The black scene that went crazy viral. I might, might have been of, been , but it, but then I didn't even announce that to the press. It was all kind of just a internet moment.

[00:13:21] Peter: Oh, well by that moment you'd built, you'd built the audience.

[00:13:22] Maitland: Yes, but when I did. That's why everybody thinks I made this announcement. I just was saying I'm going to porn right now when I did the film drive for deeper.com. Mm-hmm. , which is Vic, one of Vic's brands. Um, but it was because I, the black team just blew up that, on that same day, Caden Cross, who, who is amazing performer and director in, in her own right, but she had started the brand deeper, right? Not very long before she had just, they just acquired the brand like four months or launched four months before, but she was doing her first feature. For it and, um, she lost her co-star on. The day my black scene came out. Oh wow. So, but she thought she'd have to quit the movie cuz you know, there's not a lot of people who can handle a lot of dialogue fast. And so, um, she went to Vixen and said, I think we're done with, we're not able to do it this year. And then they said, talk to Maitland. She just blew up and she can act. And then, so that really was, we did that and I decided, you know what, I'm really proud of this. I'm proud of the trailer, I'm proud of the whole thing of the feature, cuz full length features complete, you know, dialogue story. It was, um, so I did announce it to the press. That's went insane. And that's when everybody thought, Oh, she just made the switch all of of a sudden. It's always a backstory. Yeah. It's kind of like when people say, Oh my God, like they have a starring rule in something suddenly and they're like, You just showed up my imdb, but it's

[00:14:44] Peter: 30 years.

[00:14:45] Maitland: I know I've been here forever.

[00:14:47] Peter: The everyone's like, You last company, you started this, sold it three years. It was 17 years of crap.

[00:14:51] Maitland: Yeah, no, that's what I mean.

[00:14:53] Peter: There's so much prep involved and so much time. Let me ask you this. One of the things that we touched on, and this is what I think my listeners can really relate to mm-hmm. um, being as out there as you. Right. Whether, whether it's it's on, uh, in Hollywood or, or in adult, there is a, how do you edit that out? How do you deal with the haters? How do you deal with the bad reviews? A lot of, when you're ADHD or ADHD or any sort of neurodiverse, yeah, be imposter syndrome is huge, but also, The premise that, I mean, I'll give a keynote to 10,000 people. Mm-hmm. , right? 9,999 of them will love it. There's one guy who didn't stand up for the standing ovation. That's all that I'm gonna think about for the next two weeks.

[00:15:27] Maitland: I know. You know, what do you do? I used to be a lot more like that. Um, like I would get very, like, especially when I started doing sexier photos, like on Instagram stuff, I'd get those, like fundamentalist haters and stuff. I got very perked by it. I guess , that's the word. Um, but now I kind of. I don't embrace it. There's always like one or two trolls that just wants to attack you. Right? But I was actually told something early on when I was on the soap opera that the fan mail that we get, and I remembered this, like I really came to play with the trolls. No matter if it's good or bad, you're making an impact. If they didn't care, they wouldn't even be there. So it's, if you're not getting any attention or any feedback from people, that's cuz think about to be a troll, you have to be pretty investing.

[00:16:14] Peter: Exactly.

[00:16:15] Maitland: You watch people getting fired up about something, you're, you're making this connection.

[00:16:18] Peter: Sounds like all the people who, who, when Nike came out to support Gay Rights, uh, everyone burned their Nike clothing. Okay. So yeah, just spend the a hundred bucks on sneakers and burn. Okay, cool. Cause you know, it's not like Maggie didn't make any money from that. That's true. That's true. But no, I, I, I've always said, if, if you don't have haters, you're not doing enough to change the status quo.

[00:16:33] Maitland: That's, that's exactly good. That's, that's a perfect statement really.

[00:16:37] Peter: So you just sort of put it outta your head. You're like, They're there, but

[00:16:40] Maitland: I try to, it means that I'm doing something. I mean, you know what always is kind of like, of course sounds the back. It's, Yeah, I don't like it, but, you know, but I try to, Yeah. Put it out my. And I do have some wonderful fans who will attack them, like nice backers. I don't even do all the work.

[00:16:52] Peter: There you go. Yeah. So

[00:16:54] Maitland: what's. You know what? I don't know. And, you know, well I really would like to sell the book rights and stuff cuz I, I think there's really potential there and we're working on that. And it's funny because ever since I have been in the Adult industry, I've actually had more opportunities, like people in mainstream coming to me and stuff. Like I shot a sitcom pilot last year. I'm like, yeah. So, uh,

[00:17:15] Peter: It's, it's, well, I think it's good timing for you also. I think that those barriers have definitely back from when I was repping in 2003, like it's definitely changed.

[00:17:21] Maitland: It's so changed and I really think it's because people have grown up with it on the internet. Yeah. Not grown up, but you know, when they get in there maybe.

[00:17:28] Peter: So, yeah, I remember. No, I, Believe me, I remember there was a bodega, um, on the corner where, where near, I grew up in the corner, I think it was 91st and Amsterdam with an owner who did not care what you bought or what you looked at, whether it was- that's funny- Beer or nudie mags. And I, you know, like the majority of kids in my, in my grade, like 86 to 90 in high school, 85 or whatever. I think we pretty much all found it through that mess, through that pod.

[00:17:50] Maitland: That's true. Yes. I know. I think kids today, they go online.

[00:17:53] Peter: You don't have no idea how hard it was.

[00:17:55] Maitland: They just go online and that's so funny. But seriously, people in their twenties and thirties now, they're like, They're so open to it. And especially women. I am so surprised by the women that come up to me and they're like, This is so cool. I'm so glad you're doing this and making this change. And I, I think they feel like they can talk to me cuz I'm, I'm in, I was in their living rooms. Yeah. And I feel a little like a bridge or something between like, they can ask me questions. And people can feel a little safer talking to me about things they're curious about in the adult industry and stuff. But they all, Everybody watches it ?

[00:18:26] Peter: No. No question about it. But they, Yeah, I could tell you, I mean, I remember when I was wrapping the company had access to all their data and I could tell you what states and what cities and what towns in those states. Yeah. Um, spent the most money. Oh really? Uh, it was, yes. You know, little spoiler. It was always a red state. Yeah. Always. A And it was like the hardest portion of course. And then the hardest core stuff. Another the one- oh, this is terrible! Right. Then they go right home. They spend a hundred bucks. Exactly. Um, that's, So tell us what you do Last, last couple questions to keep this brief. Tell us what you do to get out of your head. So do you exercise? Do you, what is your thing when you, when you're like, Oh my God, I gotta, I'm, I'm, I'm gone. See an hour, see in two hours. See you here. What do you..

[00:19:03] Maitland: I actually trained to be a yoga teacher. Oh wow. I'd never taught, but I did it for myself. And that was actually after I came back from New York and I was really, that helped me discover a lot for myself too, to really like, get like out my head and really like, you know, meditate, I guess, and like do the practice. So I do do that. I really like to do that. I like to play with my dogs and stuff; most, the most innocent fun. I think that they just don't care. They just, they like, no matter what is going on in the world, they're just happy to be with you. And I think that's, Yeah. So I think I do, I like to do that, but um, and I like to, I like to read a lot and I like to, um, you know, I listen to music and watch them try to like, and not distract myself, but like, just to calm and relax. Yeah. Because yeah, sometimes I get stressed out with everything going on and stuff, so I really need to like, Just mellow down.

[00:19:53] Peter: Do you have any rituals or, um, habits that absolutely must happen every single day?

[00:19:59] Maitland: No, I don't think so. Not every single day. I mean, does coffee count ?

[00:20:04] Peter: Yeah, coffee counts.

[00:20:05] Maitland: Okay. Coffee's right up there with exercise. Sure. Why not? Yeah. And like exercise. Yes and no. I don't always get to do that, but I, but I do. But, um, yeah, I think coffee, coffee's my ritual. .

[00:20:17] Peter: I think coffee is a perfect way to end anything. So, So definitely this interview, Maitland Ward. Thank you so much. Um, tell us how people can find you?

Web: https://onlyfans.com/maitlandward

Socials: @MaitlandWard on Twitter INSTA FB and @Maitlandtoks on TikTok

[00:20:23] Maitland: Oh, on all of the social media is Maitland Ward, except I do have a TikTok now which I just started,

[00:20:29] Peter: listen, it's, I'm like the only person that, that Asia's not following their, you know, stealing their, oh my gosh, stealing their files.

[00:20:34] Maitland: I, I'm so good at it yet, but we're It's MaitlandTok, because somebody had my name,

[00:20:40] Peter: Ah, someone took your name, you. You can probably fight and get that back if you want.

[00:20:41] Maitland: Yeah, I actually am working on that, but Awesome. Um, but yeah, it's funny. So yeah. But everywhere else is my name.

[00:20:52] Peter: Folks, the book is called. "Rated X: How Porn Liberated Me from Hollywood". This is a wonderful, wonderful interview. Thank you so much, Maitland Ward for taking the time!

Guys, as always, thanks for listening. We appreciate you being here. This one went a little longer. Normally we cap at 20 minutes because you know, #ADHD but we went a few minutes longer and I think that's awesome. And wanna give big shout out to Maitland Ward and to, Brian Scott Gross putting us together. Brian runs the amazing PR firm, uh, BSG Public Relations He's pretty awesome. He lives out in California. A really short guy though, but really nice guy, . And anyway, , thrilled that you took the time, and really, really grateful guys. We'll see you again next week. Thank you for listening. Talk to you soon.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at shankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week!