Do you ever feel like parenting is hard because your past trauma of abandonment or neglect has left you feeling empty with little to give your own family? My guest has been down this road and will share his own story and what he's learned from his own experience.

Don Stinson is a podcast host, producer and author. As a dad coach he is passionate about inspiring fatherhood by turning challenges into connections.

You can connect directly with Don Stinson through

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/don-stinson-9362261b2/

Website: https://www.donstinson.net/

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcription - A Dad’s Journey From Abandonment to Forgiveness

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Do you ever feel like parenting is hard because your past trauma of abandonment or neglect

has left you feeling empty or with little to give your family?

My guest has been down that road and he's here to help, so don't go anywhere.

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,

to take great pride in their role, and a challenge society to understand how important

fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.

My guest is Don Stenson.

Don is a podcast host, producer and author.

As a dad, he is passionate about inspiring fatherhood by turning challenges into connections.

Don, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Jonathan, thanks so much for having me here.

Happy to be here.

Don, I got to ask, what is your favorite dad joke?

I heard once somebody tell me that they once worked in a bubblegum factory and they

got in trouble and their boss really chewed them out.

I love that one.

Yeah, a little bait and switch sometimes.

So Don, let's jump right to it.

You grew up experiencing abandonment as a child.

Would you please share that story with us?

Yeah, I grew up in Jolietta, Illinois, and you know, that's my hometown Jolietta, it's

about an hour outside of Chicago.

You know, it's what a lot of people call a very blue collar community in some sense there.

We've just got everybody out there.

And growing up, it was difficult for me because I had a, you know, mom and dad, but you know,

dad leaves when I'm about three years old.

And that was just kind of a pattern he had in his life.

And my mom tried to do the best that she could, but you know, she had her own struggles.

She had my brother when she was 15 years old and then I had a couple of sisters that she

had in between and then she had me when she was 40 years old from a separate marriage there.

So, you know, my mom, she grew up with her own abandonment and trauma issues as well.

And those things were kind of carried through.

So, you know, that's kind of the tough part is when you have dad leave when you're three,

you know, who fills that gap, right?

And I had a stepfather that came in eventually and, you know, he and I just kind of never clicked

in that sense, but, you know, looking back, I realized how much that community of Jolietta

just came forward to help me out.

And Jonathan, it was just so cool to think back about how many teachers and church leaders

and coaches came out to help me out and in various ways.

You know, sometimes it was, they were kind of noticing we didn't have enough food.

So, you know, I got some teachers sending me home with like a loaf of bread and some peanut

butter.

Other times I have teachers that just kind of understand maybe I'm needing some advice

at some point in my life for recommendations for jobs.

So, you know, that's kind of the short end of it there to me.

There's always that silver lining of like, hey, maybe dad wasn't there, but it was kind

of cool to have these almost surrogate and substitute parents that came out that were just

really, really concerned with making our community better and focusing on the kids in the community.

It's interesting. You had an experience of what I call surrogate dads in your life.

How did they save you and how important are they to every community?

Yeah, I think one of the ways that they came in to help me through was number one being

observant.

You know, it's those things.

When you ever see a kid that's maybe wearing clothes, they're a little bit too small for them

or maybe they're not as clean or kept up as much as they should be, you know, that's where

some of these people came in.

They were observant of that.

Sometimes it was talking to mom a little bit about those things.

Other times it was kind of politely speaking to me about maybe things I needed to do better,

things that I needed to take care of on my own.

So there's that part where there's a little bit of that direct help and that was more like

elementary school.

As I get older and my passions start to turn more towards music, I was a trumpet player

in my high school band.

That's where you start to get a little closer to people that as a kid you want to be like.

So I wanted to be like my trumpet teacher and I wanted to be like my high school band

directors and my junior high band directors and other mentors in town.

So in that sense when you start to develop that relationship, you know, sometimes you know,

at a distance as it should be, I think sometimes with teachers and students, it was interesting

to see how that feedback could be more specific, right?

So I started to get things from my high school band director about, hey, maybe we're focusing

less on workouts at his school right now.

We know that you need money for this.

Maybe we're focusing more on trumpet playing.

Maybe we're focusing more on, you know, he would line me up for gigs.

You know, what does that mean?

I know you're a musician as well, Jonathan.

It meant like I went from making, at that point in the 90s, I think it was $6 an hour at

the sandwich shop to my high school band director setting me up teaching trumpet lessons that

were like $15.5 an hour, you know, and I kind of look at that thing, right?

And as a high school, you're like, cool, I'm more than doubled my salary, quote unquote,

here.

But I remember looking back at those things and it was, it was a little more involved

with that.

He wanted me to get better at my craft at the same time.

He knew money was an issue.

He knew that I had to contribute to the household and, you know, had to actually help with some

of the household debt at that point.

So, you know, it's those fine little details of people that just come in and help.

You know, and then you understand some things.

You know, it's interesting when teachers open up.

I had a, you know, I talked about my father where he left when I was three, but I did see

him again one time.

And if I remember correctly, he was driving down the road in his van and I was in another

car and I look over and he kind of looks at me and then doesn't really say hi or anything.

I think we locked eyes and knew who each other was and that he just kind of kept driving,

right?

So, those are things that they kind of sit with you.

But you know, I'll never forget a high school English teacher that I had, Mike Riley.

And we had these papers that were due and it was really important for us to get these papers

in on Monday and they were going to be graded by Thursday or something.

And Mr. Riley comes in on that Thursday and goes, "Hey, I didn't get your papers graded,

you know?"

And we're just rumbling, and this is the first time I heard this from a man.

And Mike Riley goes, you know, it was my week with my boy, he was divorced.

He goes, "It was my week with my boy, he comes first, we had a chance for some extra time

last night, so all your papers, they'll be graded later.

I got to pay attention to my boy."

Wow.

And that one thing, you know, I think I heard that when I was 16 or 17.

And you know, we stopped grumbling.

We were like, "Oh, okay."

And that was one of those pieces of information you get when you're 16 or 17 and it kind of

has to sit and it has to stew for a little bit.

And then when you're in your 30s, all of a sudden, you know, there's this little flashback

to that and that, you know, was kind of piece of information I had early on, but that I wasn't

able to use until much later.

And it was something I'll always remember, you know, when it comes to my own children.

And when it comes to what really is the priority, right?

We all have obligations, we all things that we do have to get done.

No one wants to get fired from their job because they're not performing, but there's also

sometimes, you know, those places where if you can make the choice, you know, I know what

choice I'm making then.

You and I actually had very similar experiences.

So I'll back up to the whole surrogate father topic.

I remember, and I was taking, yes, we were both musicians.

We have that in common.

After one of my piano lessons, I got ready to leave and my piano teacher's husband came

up to me and he asked me, when's the last time you've changed the oil on your car?

And I couldn't remember and I told him I couldn't remember.

And he says, all right, well, it's time to get that done.

And he said, here's what you need.

So he made a list for me.

And he says, get these things.

After your next lesson, you're going to help me change the oil on my truck.

And then after that, we're going to change the oil on your car.

This led from there to being able to and learning how to do tune ups, learning how to do break

jobs, basic car care maintenance.

So he filled that gap.

He knew that was missing in my life.

And he didn't make a big deal out of it.

He just stepped in and filled that role.

And so to this day, I've been very conscious about making sure my own two sons have those

exact same skills and that they don't have to to miss those experiences.

The other thing was the poverty growing up without a lot of money around, short money for things

like class functions that everyone else in my class seemed to be able to afford.

But I couldn't.

Well, I had a cello teacher.

I was also in the orchestra as well.

I worked really, really, really, really hard to get into the small group orchestra.

It was more like a string quintet, but I worked really, really hard to get there because only

the best players could get into that group.

He was also very aware of the financial troubles that we had.

So he got me into the director got me into that group.

And on the weekends, we would play at weddings and funerals.

Sometimes we would play at churches.

And we would get paid for those gigs.

And it was very, very good money.

And I can't tell you how many times that saved me financially.

And I was always grateful that he saw that need and he looked out for me.

And it wasn't a handout.

I had to really work to get into that group.

But he made sure that that was recognized and gave me a good shot at it.

Yeah.

So to hit on that point with your own kids, I mean, that's where I often am, right?

I try to go back to the first time I learned some things.

We all learned something for the first time at one point, right?

I don't know when I learned to not put aluminum foil in the microwave, but I know not to.

There are those things.

But it's all those other little life lessons.

And I think about those things.

I don't know, coming to school and I remember I had a band director take me to the side and

I think I was wearing like black shoes and a brown belt.

But it happened to be one of those belts that had, you know, brown on one side black on

the other was like a reversible one, right?

Right.

And he's like, Hey, I have that same belt.

He's like, a little life less.

He's like, why don't you go to the bathroom and change this up?

You should match your belt, right?

And I'm sure somebody out there in the fashion world is going to be like, actually, like

whatever, right?

But it's those, those, so many of those little things that came from so many different areas.

You know, but you hit upon the work thing as well.

You know, did you, did you have this at all?

Because I, man, I really learned how to work and I learned that, you know, I could, I could

go make some money.

But it was, it was fascinating because I started playing my trumpet in churches when I was

12 and I started mowing lawns before that and I was, I was working constantly.

And I remember when I hit my mid 30s, I'm like, I couldn't shut that off.

Like it was, it was just like I could not stop working because that is what I have spent

most of my life doing.

And I kind of had to make some choices, you know, at that point to say, like, listen, maybe,

the point of my life is not just to work.

You know, maybe, maybe I can be a family member and a father and maybe even more useful to

myself by like, taking a little bit of this time off, but my gosh, that was hard to do to

stop that.

Yes, it's been instinctive and there are times I wonder if, in some ways, maybe that

has not been a survive, if it hasn't been a survival instinct just because of, of

growing up really, really poor.

I had one of, oh man, this, this was, this was a difficult situation.

When I graduated high school, my, my mom bought me a gateway 2000 laptop.

Right.

I remember those.

Yeah, this was 2000, two, sorry, 2002.

And you know, my parents, like they, they re, my mom and my stepdad, they really used their

credit cards a lot, like, really went, went deep into that.

And I'll never forget how like heartbreaking this was for my mom.

She was trying to do something nice for me and she buys this laptop and six months later

she comes to me crying.

She can't make the payments anymore.

She has to hand the payments off to me.

So now I am, wow, but I can't take back, you know, and she, like, this was, they weren't

cheap back then, you know, it's not like you can get a Chromebook today for a hundred bucks,

right?

And I remember being handed over with this like $2,000 debt, you know, at, at that point.

So, you know, it's, it's fascinating because those people we talked about, they, they came

in, in so many different ways at a college band director that I would often speak with

about finances.

You know, like, just the way my parents operated, everything was credit cards and it was a

normal thing to have a car payment, you know, and I remember him saying, like, you know,

dude, like, there's another way, you know, are you okay driving some like, beat her for a

while?

Like, yeah, I'm fine.

Well, I still drive one today.

It's, you know, and, you know, it's just, it was interesting with that, you know, those

type of things, just again, to hear that other way.

And sometimes that information was con, you know, contradicting what my mom would say, you

know, because my mom's like, no, you have a car payment.

You get the nicest car you can buy.

That's a way of life.

You know, then I hear somebody else saying, go buy something 10, 15 years old that you can

pay cash with today.

It will be fine, right?

So that's, you know, just those things where you kind of get confused about it when you're

younger, but the first time you try it out, it's like, all right, it's not that my parents

were bad in some sense.

This is just what, you know, they were, they were trying to do the best they could with what

they knew, you know, unfortunately, sometimes what they knew just kind of kept them in that

cycle.

I want to change direction a little bit.

How does a dad who's experienced abandonment from a father begin healing to a point where

he has something valuable to give his family?

To me, when I did it, effectively, it was a giant, sloppy mess, but it was necessary,

you know, so, you know, there were those questions I had of like, hey, what was wrong with me?

Why, why didn't he want me?

Why wouldn't he come around?

You know, is what my mom is saying is true, even though everybody else is like what they're

saying does line up with, you know, this picture that I'm getting of my dad.

You know, so there's that part.

There's the questioning stage of it.

And, you know, for me, it was, it was fascinating because I always had these questions about it.

Eventually, you know, I did get to that reality of like, he's gone, he's not coming back.

This is what it is.

And he was a very interesting character, my dad.

Really loved his name.

I posted about this recently in LinkedIn, but his name was Don.

He was married to my mom.

They got a dog, a golden retriever, and they named him Donnie.

A couple years later, I was born.

They named me Don.

So, the dog gets, you know, changed to pups.

You can read about it online.

Like, later on in my 30s, I found a brother, his name is Don, and it turned out that he's a brother

of my dad.

And so, this family tree is like a giant tumbleweaver, but a half brother from my dad and a different

wife that he had.

So, there's that, but this was a guy that, you know, was always skirting the law.

He was, you know, never paying child support.

He worked for a water softener company.

And at one point, got drunk and sold the water softener band for more beer money, his boss

bailed them out.

Just, again, just really interesting, fascinating things, right?

So, to that point, you have those questions.

You do have, for me, that point in my life where I had to work so hard to prove I wasn't him,

you know, and I thought I had to prove it to other people when they weren't really putting

me in that position.

It was me.

But, you know, there came to be a point, I remember, where when I found my brother and I have

a sister in California as well, I reconnected with them or connected with them.

I should say over the first time and we spoke and everyone was great and it was just really

fun.

And I want to say about two or three weeks later, I get a call from a number in town and

it's like this local assisted living apartment place.

It's in like a worst part of town.

And, you know, these people call, they say, "Hey, are you, is this Don Stinson?"

And I'm like, you know, I'm from Jolly, I sound like, "Well, who's asking?"

They said, "Well, you know, we looked up this number, it looks like you're related to one

of our residents, Donaldson's and senior, that just passed away as your father."

That was interesting.

So, a lot of that healing process looked like going to that apartment.

At that point, they had taken his body away, but, you know, they said I could go to the apartment

and I call them up.

I'm like, "I want to see it."

So, I went there, I get a key from the front office after showing my ID.

They told me, they said, "By the way, when you get up there, they said, "Want you rush

up there and I want you shut the door and lock it because you're dead owed quite a few

people money."

He was like selling his prescription pills to them and whatever else, okay?

Great.

So, I get up there and I just spend time in this apartment.

And, you know, it's interesting when I talk about how messy it was.

It's me sitting in this just awful apartment.

You know, he at that point was on oxygen, but I think he was still smoking and drinking a

lot.

He got a closet full of oxygen tanks.

We've got cigarette butts everywhere, places dirty, like whatever.

I sit down in this couch and I just have this conversation with myself.

And I think saying a lot of those things out loud, to me about, "Hey, this is my past.

Maybe I came from you or you're a part of me, but I really do have the control to go forward

and the control to be something different."

And also Jonathan, just that acceptance, it is going to be a harder for me.

There might be some things I never release, but I can at least shorten the time that I

get stuck in those places.

And I think having that conversation in that apartment really did help me out.

And it was, you know, it was interesting to do that.

I think it helped me release quite a few things, gave me permission to be myself and do what

I needed to do, not to prove to somebody else or myself that I wasn't this guy, but just

because this is what I want to do.

So I was there for a bit.

I was there for an hour and a half.

There were a couple knocks on the door.

I did not answer.

I remember when I left that apartment, locked it up real quick.

I heard a couple, "Hey, hey, and just ran to that stairwell and got out of there."

But that's kind of where to me, that catalyst was just cool.

Here's the next stage of your life.

I'm thinking about a lot of dads that may be in similar situations.

So this next question is really important.

And that is, what role has forgiveness played in giving you that freedom to be at your best

for your own family?

That hate and sadness and questioning, I mean, that, you know, confusion and hurt, like that

just eats you up.

And it takes up so much real estate in your head.

And I've heard before, like, "Hey, forgive, but don't forget."

And I understand that.

But it does take quite a bit of work to get to a place where your actions and your state

of mind aren't held up by anybody else.

And I mean anybody else.

And it's some hard work.

To me, it's like, I started with the little things, you know, like I wanted to get to a place

where I, my actions were completely independent of the outcome.

So if I walked up to you today and I just gave you $20 as a gift and you said thank you

and then you took out a lighter and just burned that $20 in front of me, like, "I don't

care.

I did my part."

That sounds a little bit like, "Wow, that's pretty extreme, right?"

But that was what I was trying to work towards, which is, you know, I am here to give and

to help out.

And I'm not in it for the thank you.

I'm not in it for, you know, the appreciation or anything else, whether it's my family members

or my students or people that I'm coaching, you know, it's like this is what I do.

And, you know, so then it kind of goes a little deeper, right?

Because now we're talking about somebody else's actions that, or in actions that have kind

of made your life more difficult, right?

So, you know, there is part of it where I have to look at it and go, "Hey, I've gotten some

really cool opportunities because I know how to work, right?

I have gone through some significant challenges."

So there is that part where I certainly appreciate that, you know, I don't think I'd be where

I am today without these challenges and without having just really crawl through some things,

you know, but there's that other part too where the baggage comes in with it, right?

So that's to me where the work kind of came in where it's like, "All right, if I'm going

to be appreciative of what I got out of this, then that's really what I do have to focus

on.

I do have to recognize, yes, you know, these things.

Did have an effect?

Cool.

I'm going to have to really dig deep and do some very, very difficult work.

But, you know, the other thing too, it's like, I look at my partner and I, we share six kids,

like, the reality is, I don't really have time anymore to be an effective partner and

parent and community member and have all of that stuff in my head.

You know, it takes away from what I meant to do and what I love to do.

How can dads learn more about what you're doing, get your books or get help from you?

I'm pretty active on the LinkedIn platform now.

So if they look me up on LinkedIn, Don Stinson, and if you look up anything with Don Stinson

Fatherhood, that stuff should come up there.

My website, Don Stinson.net, I think is a good way to contact me as well on there.

Just to make it easier if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description, I will have all of

the links that Don just mentioned posted there for your convenience.

And Don, as we close, what is your challenge to Dad's listening now?

I want dads to go out and find another dad or guy to confide in and potentially vent to.

I don't want guys just venting to their, their life.

You know, I want guys to be there for each other.

And I think that part is so important.

You know, growing up and even now in my 40s.

I have no problem calling someone up and essentially saying, how do I parent?

You know?

I have this specific issue right now.

I need help with it.

This is what I have tried.

I try to bring some people, some solutions first that I tried and bound some things off.

But I mean, for me at least, I am finally at a point.

I absolutely know shame in asking for this help and I think anyone out there that hasn't,

that damn hasn't broken for you yet.

I just try to find two or three people.

You know, even if it's like, hey, I just want to talk to another guy right now about some

of these things.

And I think you will be absolutely surprised.

Number one, how welcoming people are and how helpful they can be.

And I think also like, we're not alone.

There are a lot of people going through the same things and celebrating the same things

that we have and you know, kind of trying to navigate the same stress that all of us have

as well.

So I think it's really just trying to build your own community.

God, thank you so much for your wisdom that you shared with me and shared with this audience.

And thank you so much for being on the Father of Challenge.

It's been absolutely honor having you.

I loved it.

This is a lot of fun, Jonathan.

Thank you.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in

this program or find out more information about The Fatherhood Challenge.

Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.

[MUSIC]

Are you a dad of a child with a disability and you are hurting for a sense of community with other dads like you who understand your daily life experience? Are you looking for help such as resources or just someone to talk with or ask questions? My guest is here to help.

David Hirsch is a podcast host, dad of 5 and the creator of a network for fathers raising kids with special needs called Special Fathers Network.

To take the assessment mentioned in this episode or to learn more about Special Fathers Network visit:https://21stcenturydads.org/

Email David Hirsch at: [email protected]

Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dad-to-dad-podcast/id1373738974

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcription - Dads of Differently-Abled Kids

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Are you a dad of a child with a disability and you are hurting for a sense of community

with each other with other dads like you who understand your daily life experience?

Are you looking for help such as resources or just someone to talk to or ask questions?

My guest is here to help in just a moment so don't go anywhere.

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere

to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers

are to the stability and culture of their families environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone.

Thank you so much for joining me.

My guest is David Hirsch, a podcast host, a data five and a creator of a network for

fathers raising kids with special needs called Special Fathers Network.

David, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Jonathan, thanks so much for the opportunity.

I really, really enjoy the work that you do.

One of my favorite questions is what is your favorite dad joke?

I don't know if it's my favorite one, but here's one.

Where do you learn to make banana splits?

Where do you learn Sunday school?

They're not see that one coming.

Well David, there has to be a story behind why you got involved with helping dads with special

needs children and why you started Special Fathers Network.

What is your story?

So I want to become a father for the first time at age 27 years ago.

I was looking for fatherhood resources and couldn't find what I was looking for, but stumbled

across some statistics.

24 million kids growing up in father apps and homes, four out of every 10 in America.

The perception that it's those poor inner city black kids and it's really bad in the black

community.

Maybe seven or eight out of 10 are growing up in father apps and homes, but in absolute

numbers, there are two times number of white versus black children in America growing

up without their dads.

So it's not somebody else's problem.

Not led to helping start the Illinois fatherhood initiative.

One of the countries first statewide, not for profit, fatherhood organizations, the signature

program of which is the annual father of the year essay program, which is attracted, no

exaggeration, more than 425,000 Illinois youth K through 12 who write essays to the theme,

what my father means to me, fathers, grandfathers, stepfathers, father figures for that matter.

And that organization still exists in the mission of that Illinois fathered an initiative as

to actively engage fathers in the education of children about seven years ago when my

baby went off to college.

I felt like I was talking to me and he said, what I thought I heard was you should do a

cross country bicycle ride and I said, well, you obviously have the wrong person.

I don't own a bike you could ride across the country and I'm not an endurance bike rider,

but I couldn't shake the idea, talk to some friends who were known endurance bike riders,

bought a bike, started training, put a crew together, put a plan together, flew out to

LA, peddled back from Santa Monica to Chicago, 21 days, 2,325 miles.

And I lived to tell the story.

I was then 54 years old, didn't know that I had something like that in me and it was

a transformative experience on a lot of different levels.

And I felt like I found my voice.

I had been talking about the importance of father involvement, but with all the media print

radio TV media that we were doing across the country, that led to giving a TEDx talk in

October of 2015, entitled Why We Need to Break the Cyclothother Absence, beginning of 2016,

I ended up writing a book, my first book entitled A Father's Journey to Break the Cyclothother

Absence, which is a little bit about the bicycle ride, more about the advocacy, and a little

bit, I started talking then about the relationship or a lack of a relationship that I have with

my dad.

So that was the beginning of the 21st Century Dads Foundation and a couple of three years

into it, it wasn't meeting one of our objectives.

What I mean by that is that we anticipated that we would be able to get the fatherhood

programs, school based, workplace programs to work together, and we couldn't.

So we thought about closing the 21st Century Dads Foundation down, but before we did that,

we thought we would identify the four most challenging areas for fathers that we could identify.

The first was raising kids in high poverty areas, like urban areas.

The second was working within incarcerated dads, and then it had been removed not only

from their family, but from society at large.

The third was working with teen fathers, men who become fathers in most cases inadvertently

as teenagers.

And then the fourth area is working with fathers raising children with special needs.

Those are the four areas that we found to be the most challenging, our board, the not-for-profit

board, narrowed it down to the last two categories, teen fathering, dad raising kids with special

needs, and that was the beginning of the special fathers network, this dad-to-dad mentoring

program for fathers raising children with special needs.

In our simple notions of a year ago was that we would recruit a small army of seasoned

dads, dads who have ten or more years of experience raising a child or in some cases,

children with special needs, and match them to the dads who are close to the beginning

of their journey raising a child with a similar or special need.

So that's the short story.

So basically you have dads older or more experienced dads mentoring newer dads.

That's exactly it.

So that's how it started.

And then with storytelling, like I was making reference to the youth writing stories about

their dads, somebody says to me one day, "Hey, Hirsch, what do you think about podcasting?"

And I thought the question was, "What do I like about listening to podcasts?"

I said that they're entertaining, they're informative, some of them are inspirational.

So now what do you think about listening to podcasts?

What do you think about hosting a podcast?

I said, "Well, that's pretty comical.

I'm an investment advisor.

That's what I do, occupationally.

I have no experience with interviewing, no radio experience, no editing production experience.

That's a funny thing."

And so, you should think about it.

You'd be sincere.

I think you'd do a good job.

So those were the seeds that were planted that germinated very quickly into what we know

today as the Special Fathers Network or SFN Dad-A-Dad podcast, which just recently produced

its 300th episode.

So it's mostly dads, dad's, dad's, dad's, father figures telling the story about raising

a child or children with special needs.

But I'm also interviewed dozens of women now and other healthcare providers and just

interesting individuals who have something to add about this important relationship that

kids have with their dads.

But in most cases, it has to do with dads raising kids with special needs.

And so we're on the same page, John.

We're talking about autism, Down syndrome, cerebral palsy, rare disease, missing a limb, missing

limbs, deaf, blind.

There's no disability that's out of bounds.

And it's very profound, right, to see the amazing things that these families are doing.

I was laughing earlier at the part of your story where you were telling that somebody was

suggesting that you started a podcast and you heard something about listening to podcast

and reminded me my own experience.

I had absolutely no desire or interest in doing a podcast at all.

Really did not like to do it.

I loved listening to them and I listened to a lot of podcasts.

But yeah, just did not want to start one.

I've wipe brought it up and it was a very unusual thing for her to say.

I mean, it wasn't until I was driving by myself and I kind of let my thoughts wander on

that topic.

And I let my mind finally go to the idea that it was probably not specifically my wife,

but that God was trying to call me and was using my wife to do that.

And every hair on my body stood up and I started to shake and I felt like God was right there

looking at me and I realized, whoa, this is not, this is serious.

This is actually a calling.

This is not a joke.

And so I went into a prayer about it and I voiced my objections to God.

And you know, well, I figured, be honest with them.

It's not like he doesn't already know my thoughts anyways.

So I was very blunt with him about how I felt about it, but I told him, you know what?

I know who you are.

I shouldn't be here.

I've been broken and you gave me my family back.

You gave me back.

I mean, you restored me.

You did so much for me.

And now you're trying to become my friend and now you're asking me to do this.

So I'm not about to say no.

I'm just saying, I'm going to say yes because it's you and I know who you are.

But as far as me, this is very uncomfortable.

So I'll make a deal.

You open up the doors.

You take ownership of it.

You set the agenda.

You run things and I'll be your human grunt.

But I can tell you, you know, to this very day, it shares you and I are speaking.

He's kept his end of the deal, which tells me everything that I need and everybody else

needs to know about how he feels about fathers, how he feels about fatherless children,

and how much, just how much he loves each and every one of us.

Thank you for sharing.

Yeah.

So on the next question, I'm a dad of a son who is diagnosed with type one diabetes at age

three.

Do you know very many dads with that experience?

And how are they benefiting from being connected socially?

There are some dads in our network that have children with diabetes.

That's 100% for sure.

But admittedly, that's not the main focus as far as the number of interviews I've done.

To give you a sense, I've probably done 75 to 80 interviews on autism, 40 something

on Down syndrome, maybe as many unsurpassable palsy, maybe as many are more on rare disease

because there's like six or seven thousand different rare diseases.

And then there's a more limited number of disabilities that relate to physical disabilities

as opposed to intellectual disabilities.

So diabetes is real, right?

So life altering can be a life ending experience if not treated.

So I think we need to be super focused on addressing that.

And diabetes can be managed, right?

In some cases, rather successfully over a very long period of time.

Certainly, if it's gotten properly diagnosed and it's treated correctly.

So I don't want to differentiate between, well, what does it like to be a father or

the child with diabetes versus fill in the blank, right?

We have some common fears and concerns, right?

You know, how is this going to affect my child's ability, right, to learn or physically

develop?

What's their future going to be like?

What's my relationship with my child going to be like because of that?

So these are all common experiences and fears that we have.

And I think it's important to not say, oh, I only want to associate with other dads

who have children with diabetes, right?

That might be helpful at least initially because you have something in common.

But I think that when you take a step back, when you widen your aperture and you understand

that there's basic human concerns that we have, we found with the groups of dads that

we get together within the special father's network, but it's less diagnosis specific.

And it's more important to be in contact with like-minded dads, right?

Yes.

Yes.

You know, not all of us are wired the same way, right?

You know, some of us see our primary role as being the provider, a more traditional experience,

right?

You know, I'm going to work.

I'm going to provide for my family, you know, let my wife handle all things, medical,

all things educational.

And I'm not here to judge, right?

If that's what works for your family, God bless you.

But you know, I think more is expected of dads today than ever before, which is a good thing.

You want dads to lean in, being a dad doesn't mean one thing, but you know, we've broken

fatherhood into four different categories to help dads get, you know, a little bit more engaged,

be present, physically, emotionally, and spiritually in their kids' lives.

So obviously there's a financial commitment, right?

Dads are expected to be providers, but how do we be present physically, right?

Especially for non-custodial dads to be present physically is a challenge.

But third is to be present emotionally.

I'm not an emotional creature, right?

Nobody wants an emotional financial advisor.

I'm pretty sure of that.

That's what I do.

Right?

Nobody wants an emotional like air travel, you know, you know, you want somebody who's going

to be steady, right?

Somebody who's, you know, going to be able to focus and stay, you know, on task.

And you know, so it's difficult for me.

And I think a lot of other guys to express their emotions, be empathetic, be sympathetic

to others.

You know, you hear the phrase, hey, you know, why don't you just put your big boy pants

on or, you know, suck it up.

And I think that, you know, there's a place for that, but, you know, I don't think that,

you know, that's what our family needs, right?

I think we need to be a little bit more engaged, you know, from an emotional standpoint.

And then the fourth aspect of fathering quadrant that we talk about is being spiritually

present.

And who's the spiritual leader in your family?

Sometimes it's both parents, sometimes it's the mom, sometimes it's the dad, sometimes

it's nobody.

And, you know, maybe you didn't grow up in a spiritual home, but, you know, it's something

to think about, right?

So we have a self-assessment tool that we created for dads to get some immediate feedback

on their fathering and it addresses each of those four areas.

Towards the end, I would like to cover how are those, how dads listening in our audience

can access that tool.

And I wanted to go on to the next thing.

I was wanting to really get into paternal postpartum depression, but the interesting thing about

that is that takes me back to the time when I was sitting in the doctor's office and my

son was being diagnosed with type one diabetes.

And the thoughts I went through that started to spiral and they said it could also be leukemia

and I kept thinking, you know, well, I sure hope it's leukemia.

Well, that's easy because if it's leukemia, well, you just, it's simple.

You just get a bone marrow transplant and that's it.

That's over with and everything's good and life is normal.

And then waiting in the doctor coming back in and confirming it was type one and my heart

sinking, spiraling emotionally, feeling very, very much disconnected, feeling alone.

And the one thing that I was hurting for the most would have been something like what

you're offering now.

A network of dads that I could connect with that I could talk to, not specifically just

type one dads, but dads who were dealing with other things as well, some of them harder

than what I was about to deal with.

That really would have done a lot to, for my own mental health, helping me to be able

to move on and see life past what I was facing.

The next question I have is how can a special needs child impact the dynamics of a marriage

and how can dads be prepared to handle it?

That's a great question, thanks, John.

So you're focused on the marriage and something that I've tried to drill down on with each

of the interviews that I do very similarly is to ask what impact has the child with disability

had on his or her siblings, if there are siblings, your marriage and the extended family,

like grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc.

Because it has an impact on all three of those.

It's various, right?

It impacts different families differently.

So I'll start by answering your question, not about marriage, but about the siblings, right?

Birth order has something to do with it.

And the trap that parents need to try to avoid is that the child with the disability is

going to, by definition, require more time and resources, right?

than the other children, just because of their situation.

And you don't want to wake up a year, a decade or longer down the road with the aha that,

oh my gosh, I didn't give my other child or children the attention that they deserved, right?

Because I was so focused on the child with special needs.

So that's one thing to be aware of.

And there are great resources, sibling resources in the marketplace.

The second part is you asked about marriage.

If you started with a strong marriage, hopefully it just strengthens your marriage.

If you're in a weak situation before the diagnosis, it's almost anybody's bad as to where that's

going to go.

So it has the ability to strengthen, get mom and dad on the same page and working together,

you know, against the disability and overcoming the challenges.

And you know, some of the challenges exist that both parents aren't knowledgeable and accepting

of the diagnosis.

And I think the messages you need to give your partner grace, right?

When they're not at the same level that you are.

And that's not always saying the mom is ahead of the dad or the dad is always ahead of

the mom.

It just has an impact, right?

Because we're not all dealing with the challenge in the same way at the same time.

So that's the thought that comes to mind as it relates to the impact on marriage.

I've seen it go both ways and strengthen some minutes weaken them.

And the third part of the question, at least the way I framed it is, what impact has the

disability had on the extended family?

And depending on the disability and the family structure and how close they are proximity

geographically, it's a lot easier for families when there's extended family in the neighborhood,

right?

That they can help out, right?

They can take some of the burden off of mom and dad to be doing everything so that they

can, you know, have a little bit more balance in their lives.

But not everybody has family members close by geographically.

And it's often that parents would report, dads would report that, you know, grandma and

grandpa don't get it, right?

They don't understand, you know, the challenge because they didn't have a child with a similar

special need when they were parenting.

So it takes little grace there to say, you know, it is really hard for our extended family

to appreciate, you know, what the day to day is.

And, you know, hopefully they can be supportive and be involved, but if they can't or won't,

you know, just accept that they might not fully appreciate or understand, you know, what's

going on and just consider yourself fortunate that, you know, if you do have an extended family

and they can play a role that they're able to be involved.

We love stories on this program.

Please share some success stories of dads you've helped through the Special Fathers Network.

You know, like I said, with 300 plus episodes, many of the dads would say, doing an interview,

talking about their situation, shining some light on it has been cathartic, right?

Just getting, you know, open about it, right?

Transparent about it.

And, you know, we've always thought and taught that, you know, when you show vulnerability,

it's a weakness, right?

You don't want to show weaknesses, right?

So we tend to hold those things and hold them pretty close.

So that's the general benefit, I think, that goes along with it.

We have had some guys join our mastermind groups.

These are the weekly meetup groups.

We've been piloting these for the last three years on Wednesday nights, two years on Tuesday

nights.

Now we're setting a goal to recruit 100 new men into the mastermind group concept.

These are virtual meetings on a weekly basis, and then we have an annual weekend retreat

where we get all the dads together.

The retreats have been in Nashville, St. Louis, in Chicago.

We're trying to keep them in the Midwest to make it as easy as possible for people to get

to and from and travel the shortest distance on average.

And during these weekly meetings, we talk about wins.

We review books, six books a year, so about two months per book, and then we have Zoom calls

with the authors.

These are all people within the network, by the way.

We have not had to reach outside our network for interesting and meaningful books.

And then the most meaningful aspect of this is the dad in the middle.

We have two dads in the middle, about 15 minutes each per week.

And dad gets to share a challenge or something that is going on.

And it could have to do with the child with special needs, could have to do with his marriage,

could have to do with something going on at work, it could have to do with his own health.

Anything, right?

And it's private.

The guys all listen and then they chime in.

You know, what about this?

What about that?

So we're getting to know each other on a really deep level.

And then we end the meetings, these 75 minute meetings, with what are we looking forward

to?

So the point is, we want to start on a positive note.

What was the win?

Smaller, large from the past week?

Because if we wanted to, we could all play the hardship of the Olympics and try to out

to each other, right, about how hard things have been the past week.

That's not the form that we've created.

And so a couple of dads come to mind.

I'm not going to mention them by name, but if they were to listen to this podcast, they

would know who they are.

But oftentimes the dad is going to come in.

He's in a lot of pain, right?

He's not where he wants to be with his spouse.

He's not where he wants to be psychologically with his relationship with his child or children.

And it's really painful.

He might be in therapy already, maybe, maybe not.

And he's looking for whether he realizes or not an opportunity to just be authentic, be

himself, and be in a company with like-minded dads.

And we've had a number of these dads.

By the way, they pay $50 to $200 a month to be involved.

Let me put another number to that.

That's $600 a 24-hundred dollars a year to be involved in the mastermind group, right?

This is not one of these charity hand-out things.

They're investing their time.

And as importantly, they've got some skin of the game financially.

That's why we have such a high attendance.

And many of them would say that they saved their marriage, right?

It saved their lives in some situations, like they were suicidal about their situation.

And what a reassuring experience that is when these dads share their testimony to one

another and that these were treats that we have.

So those are a couple of thoughts that come to mind.

If there's a stepdad or possible stepdad entering the life of a special needs child, what

should he expect and how should he prepare?

So we do have quite a few stepdads just by definition, a man who is married to a woman who

has a child or children with special needs.

So he's come in with both eyes open, right?

He's sort of being intentional about accepting the responsibility that goes along with being

a father.

And most of them would say, you know, we don't differentiate between our stepkids and our

biological kids to be a father to a young boy or a young girl, you know, with a disability.

So the advantage that that father has is that, you know, he's not taken by surprise, not

blindsided.

Most parents, John, don't ask for children with special needs, right?

Most of our dads would say, almost to a person, I would not have asked for a child with special

needs.

But many of them, I don't know if it's a majority, but certainly a plurality of our dads with

a decade or decades of experience will tell you, I would not have asked for a child with special

needs, but knowing everything I know today, I wouldn't change anything, right?

I'm the person I am today, our family is strong.

We have great friends, it's strengthened, you know, relationships all the way around.

They didn't say it was easy.

Some of them have a lot of hardship.

In some cases, one or more of their children dies, right?

I've done at least two dozen interviews of dads that have lost a child, either from the

time of birth as a newborn, as a toddler, as a teenager, or somebody in their 20s or 30s

for that matter.

You know, a lot of these kids are medically fragile, especially the ones with rare disease.

You know, their life expectancy can be quite short.

But I think that the advantage that the dads have, the stepfather, specifically, like you

were asking about is that they're coming in with both eyes open, right?

And, you know, I really, really admire those dads.

Similarly, to dads that are adopting kids with special needs, right?

These are amazing human beings.

As long as we're talking about this, one of the things that I've witnessed, John, is

that the parents, moms and dads who are raising kids with special needs, on average, are

more humble, less arrogant, and less selfish than the general population.

And the world need more humble, less arrogant, and less selfish people.

I am absolutely.

Absolutely.

Statement, but you could read between the lines.

Well, David, how can dads connect with you?

Listen to your podcast or learn more about special fathers network.

The easiest thing to do is go to the website, 21st century dads.org.

They can send me an email at [email protected].

And the podcast is on all the popular podcast platforms.

It's known as the SFN Dad to Dad podcast.

You know, if you see it, it looks a little bit like a Superman logo.

You know, I would love to connect with any of your dads, whether they have a child with

special needs, a family member with special needs or disability, or they just have questions,

right?

Because they're compassionate about this.

And just to make things easier to, if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the

fatherhoodchallenge.com.

If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.

And I will have the links that David just mentioned posted there.

One thing I always enjoy about these times is learning things.

And I definitely learned something from you, many things from you today, actually.

And I know our audience did too.

So thank you so much for being on the program.

Well, Jonathan, thank you for the opportunity.

Let's give a special shout out to our mutual friend, Reno Friedman Watts.

Yes.

That's a very podcast host from introducing us.

Thank you, Reno.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in

this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.

Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

[MUSIC]

Competitive sports, extracurricular activities and programs for kids are popular in schools and homes. Parents invest a lot of time and money in getting their kids to practice and games or performance events. But is there a danger to all of this that can damage or destroy family relationships?

My guest is National Chess Master and owner of Premier Chess who manages programs for students of all ages and levels, Evan Rabin.

If you would like to connect with Evan Rabin or learn more about the educational programs at Premier Chess, visit: https://premierchess.com/

Email: [email protected]

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcription - Dads Competitive Sports and God

---

Competitive sports and extracurricular activities and programs for kids are popular in schools and homes.

Parents invest a lot of time and money in getting their kids to practice in games or performance events.

But is there a danger to all of this that can damage or destroy family relationships?

Find out in just a moment.

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,

to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.

My guest is National Chess Master and owner of Premier Chess, who manages programs for students of all ages and levels.

Evan Rabin.

Evan, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Yeah, thank you so much for being here. It's my pleasure.

Evan, I am curious, what is your favorite dad joke?

Why didn't the chicken cross the road?

Oh, I know I've never heard this one before.

What was the answer?

Because he was chicken.

I love that one.

Yeah, it's a good one.

Well, Evan, let's start with your story behind how you became a National Chess Master

and now you're running student programs. How did this happen?

It's a good, very good question.

So I first started playing chess when I was very young.

I was seven years old.

My brother and my dad taught me how to move the pieces.

And I quickly started playing the program at my school, the Churchill School.

And I pretty much started playing very actively since then.

I actually played the Nationals two months after I learned how to move the pieces,

basically, and just kept going with it when I was 20.

I made National Master.

And when I was 12, I actually started teaching chess off off and on.

And seven years ago now in 2017, I started Premier Chess.

And now we have 65 coaches.

We run programs in 80 schools, a bunch of companies like Google and City Group.

And we also do a lot of camps, tournaments, private lessons, etc.

All over the country.

That's amazing.

What was your goal behind starting Premier Chess?

Pretty much the biggest thing was to follow my passion.

Before that, I did enterprise sales at Oracle and Rapid Seven.

It was fun. I enjoyed it.

I made pretty good money doing it.

But at the end of the day, I didn't really to CIOs that much.

And I felt kind of bad in the way, almost, that I would just...

Well, they felt bad, but it's just probably like I was, you know, thinking a little bit, almost.

Where, you know, I was selling something that I didn't really know about.

You know, until this day, I don't really know exactly what an engineered system is.

But, you know, that's what I was selling at the time.

And basically, I said, you know, why don't I sell my true passion of Chess?

So, that's what I'm doing.

And, you know, it's just a lot more relatable.

And, you know, I'm an expert in the field.

So, it's great to do what I love and sell what I love.

Is it ever more than just being about Chess?

Is there something else besides the game that you are offering?

Absolutely.

So, when we're teaching Chess, we're also teaching business and life lessons through the game.

So, very often, actually, I'll meet people networking and they'll say,

"Great to meet you. You know, we'll definitely keep you in mind."

You know, here, Chess players looking for, you know, a coach.

But, I always say that our target market is actually not Chess players.

You know, for the most part, people who are more serious about Chess, you know,

they actually have the coaching that they need or want.

But, really, we're more interested actually talking to the schools and companies,

other organizations that want to learn things like

critical thinking, healthy competition at the law firm.

We teach about judgment training, you know, on the one hand, you know.

Wow.

Law in and out, you know, basically, but when you're on trial or a deadline,

you need to take everything you know and put it into basically a few minutes of work sometimes.

And it's the same thing in Chess, of course.

I tell students all the time, even if it's an opening or a middle game or an end game,

that you've looked at a billion times in theory, you still need to make sure you're spending time at the board

and making sure that you're, you know, doing things correctly.

So sometimes I'll teach you an opening, for instance, and then I'll say, "Oh, let's review it."

But then I'll purposely make a slightly different move, sort of secretly.

And they'll just kind of blindly play the move I taught.

And I say, "But didn't you realize that I actually did something a little different?"

And I'm like, "Oh, no, because they were just so rushing to play, you know, exactly what I taught them."

And I was really just testing to see like, "Oh, are you actually going to think on your feet

and realize that I did something slightly different?"

Or you're just going to go through the motions.

So critical thinking skills are a huge part of what you're teaching.

It's beyond just the game itself, but you're teaching kids and maybe even adults to actually think for themselves in life.

Absolutely.

What are the benefits of dads getting their kids involved in competitive sports or the arts?

The biggest thing is just being able to get yourself out there, get yourself exposed.

And it's also, of course, very important for college and career.

I've been able to build such a great community and chess that has helped not just in my business, but also before.

When I was in college, for instance, one of my good friends called Adyemi, helped tutor me finance and whatnot,

and also helped me in my career search quite a bit.

Many other chess friends have helped, and now I'm given back all the time through other people and thinking forward.

So yeah, it's community, but then it's also just self-self-growth.

And that's why I do actually tell students all the time that if it's a chess, stick to chess, if it's basketball, fine, stick to basketball.

Develop one or two extra career killers that you're really into and be able to grow with those.

I think people do sometimes try to get into too many different things, actually, and it kind of hurts them overall.

I see this all the time where they spread their kids too thin.

The kids are involved in programs outside of school. They're involved in sometimes more than one athletic program within school.

They have their academics to be concerned about, and they don't do very well.

They are actually some of the slowest performing students, because they can't really concentrate and do anything well.

And their parents are just, they have their kids way, way too busy for their age that they really can't even be a kid.

They can't be a kid, but then also they don't practice, right?

I've actually, for instance, I'm in a lot of parent groups on Facebook all over the country.

And, you know, I'm relatively often actually, I'll see someone say, "Oh, do you know any piano teachers that have their own instruments?"

You know, as if they don't want to bite, right? And I'm right away thinking, "What about that's ridiculous? How are they going to learn piano or any other instrument if they don't want to have an instrument at home?"

You know, I think they're in practice throughout the week.

And in a similar vein, right? I always tell students, right? Even if they take private lessons with us, they're in a school program with us once or twice a week.

Right? Make sure that our next lesson is not the next time that you're playing or learning chess, right? And you still need to be pretty consistent throughout the week.

Absolutely. I love this. The other thing that makes me wonder, sometimes if the parents have these kids so busy to compensate for something else, maybe they really are uncomfortable just spending that one in one time bonding with their own children.

And so they're using something else to keep them from actually having to build that connection in a meaningful way.

Absolutely.

What are the advantages to putting your kids in either athletics or an art? So is there an advantage to your kid being in the arts versus being an athletics or one of the other or is there no advantage at all?

Honestly, really, I think just depends on the kid. If they're more athletic, all the power to them. I have a nine-month-old daughter now. So we're not, you know, yet thinking about extra curriculars too much, of course.

One thing I definitely plan on is getting her exposed to everything. And then wherever she wants to go with them, that's where she wants to come.

So it's more of athletic route, playing volleyball, basketball, whatever it is.

No, great. No, no. I was actually just listening on a different dad podcast the other day.

That's one of the biggest things that you should actually do is, ever early on, give them decision-making abilities.

Oh, wow.

I'm not like when they go to college, that's the first time they're like, wow, what a major, et cetera. They should be trying to figure out many different choices from simple things like what's for dinner tonight? Have them have a say in it?

I had a fascinating guest on, and actually two guests that talked on this topic of what you can do with things you can do with a baby.

And it turns out that intellectual development or brain development and athletics, so to speak, in a newborn or a baby, are very, very much linked together.

In other words, developing core strength and developing eye coordination, eye movement, just brain development, they're linked together through play, through actual physical play with your baby.

So what are your thoughts on that? And in your own experience, you're a new dad. Have you ever seen play really help with your child's development?

Absolutely. Actually, in the beginning, my grandmother actually was yelling at us for not having her have enough toys. I grew up in the college of 94 and very healthy and very good, but she also very much will always say her opinion.

Which I'm actually incredibly grateful for, of course. But, we weren't spending enough energy making sure that she had toys and whatnot.

And yeah, I really do think that it's incredibly important to constantly get her developing. It's under, you know, under control, of course.

Yeah, so it's fascinating. It's beyond just school programs later in life. This development starts very, very early, even from when they are a baby. And this isn't something you want to just hand off to somebody else as a parent.

This is something you're going to want to roll up your sleeves and get involved with early because that's how you begin and maintain that bonding process that can really help you later on down the road when they become a teenager.

And let's shift back to chess a little bit. What are kids learning from your chess program besides the game and how does that give them a personal advantage in life?

So there's several factors, of course. So, you know, making sure that you're looking ahead, you're realizing that, you know, time is valuable.

And also just making you think about different options. So I myself, by the way, actually had a learning disability growing up. I went to a school called Churchill in New York when I was, you know, very young.

And to you know, if I was upset, you know, unfortunately, I was likely to, you know, yell at another kid or hit another case even, you know, in some cases.

But I really do think chess, you know, actually helped me in some ways and made me realize that there are different options, you know, out there.

And, you know, I could tell the teacher I could ignore it. I could, you know, tell another student and something was, you know, disturbing me.

And, yeah, there were a lot of other options out there. And that's why I do tell students, you know, every time you make a move, make sure you're at least considering two or three alternatives.

And you should never, yeah, typically make the first move that you see necessarily, right? You can make that move eventually. But if you are, make sure you're at least considering some alternatives.

Now let's look at the flip side of the topic. What are some negative effects of competitive athletic or arts programs? In what ways can it be harmful to or damaging family relationships or even health?

Anything could definitely, if it's not in moderation, be actually harmful. I personally, you know, see a lot of chess parents that could be a little bit too crazy about their kids and results.

You know, one thing I always actually talk about is how, like when we run our tournaments, the kids relatively easy to deal with the parents. Most of them are absolutely great.

But some of them could be a little bit difficult. You know, they don't leave the room when we tell them to leave the room.

Because they're some like helicopter parents. In one case, one of the top grandmasters in the country. I won't mention his name, but in the past, when we were both in high school,

we had to take the tournaments and literally, in some cases, I heard the dad like publicly yell at him, you know, that he would lose a game. You know, this and that.

It wasn't good for him at all. And obviously, yeah, did not go over well. I think maybe even got to a point where he was welcome at the club and not his like father.

Yeah, just just like, you know, pretty, pretty crazy at the time. So I think that the short of it is that, yes, you do want to get a little bit of all with with with your kids.

You know, but you should step to the side a little bit as well.

You know, I also have seen many cases, you know, kid, not really wanting to, you know, listen to the teacher much.

You know, because the parent is right there in the parent. And I, you know, I've in a couple cases that we did actually a snow day virtual camp a couple weeks ago.

It was one younger girl, you know, who's like five signed up for the camp. And, you know, she was a little upset and the mom was kind of there, you know, supporting her.

And I actually privately messaged her in the chat with, with all due respect.

And I said, you should, you know, go do your thing, you know, work for the day, whatever. You know, and she's like, Oh, I don't really know she, she maybe I should get a refund because my kid is young most of the other kids are older.

And I said, just trust me, just literally leave five minutes and into what happens and then throughout the day, the girl was more than fine, you know, loved it.

All it was was, you know, if she was a sand holding a little bit too much.

I love the story that you brought out about the dad yelling because I see so many times where parents will live their own lives, either their successes or they will live their failures vicariously through their kids.

Instead of their kids letting, letting their kids have their own experience, they burden their kids and they put their own experiences or missed experiences and put that burden on their kids.

And they may not even be aware that they're doing it, but it's really damaging. And that's one area where I see that can be really damaging to, to that relationship, putting undue unnecessary pressure on a child.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's crucial, you know, to think about.

Do you ever see those conflicts and goals between a student and a parent or a dad?

I haven't so much, you know, I would say that, you know, pour them into something we, you know, strongly encourage, of course, to, you know, all students.

Actually, I was actually at a recital a couple of years ago, one of my good friends, Mike Papapalu owned a company guitar guy go over, they do piano and guitar lessons and other instruments as well.

And actually a couple of years ago, he partnered with this guy, Scott, something or other.

And one thing Scott actually said that I really actually appreciated was you guys are going to learn more in this recital.

Then you have in the last, you know, seven months, you know, learn, learn.

And I really do think that that made a lot of sense, you know, I think, you know, what was the point of learning an instrument for six months if you're not going to like perform at all.

And it's definitely similar in chess and in tournaments.

You could take lessons every week for a long time, but you're not really going to get better until you're like starting to play some tournaments here and there.

It's about conquering a fear that the otherwise would not have had the courage to conquer if they really didn't have that structure in those lessons to really hold them accountable.

It's a lot of fun to really teach different tricks and tips to help them overcome their anxiety and help them to focus.

So in chess, are there ever strategies that you teach that really helped to hone in and develop focus and concentration?

Yeah, so definitely a fair amount. I mean, obviously that is huge. And I always tell students that you do need to study a lot of jazz.

Of course, if you want to get better, but you also have to learn how to focus at the board, which honestly, even myself, you know, compared to other masters in particular.

I just struggled with focusing. You know, I just, I'm actually reading now book about the Kasparov Carpov match in 1985.

And Kasparov talked a couple times about how he and Carpov, you know, it's been 30, 40 minutes on one move.

So it's probably, in some cases, a little bit too much, but you know, it just goes to study that he focuses very, very, very key.

And a lot of players, including myself, you know, will fall into the trap, but wow, this move is so obvious.

And you make it instantly. And right after you play, you're like, wow, I should have considered these two things.

Or, you know what, even worse, I missed this very easy win for him. I usually should have seen, but I did.

And the only reason you missed it is you move too quickly. And very often too, you know, students will miss simple tactics, which are, you know, for those that don't know, basically a small series of moves too.

Basically, usually one material, in some cases, checkmate. And, you know, they'll miss it, simply because they weren't looking for it.

So yesterday I was actually looking at a game with the student. It was a very short game actually from Larry Christianson, who's the several time US champion.

We still actually played together in the Boston team of the US Chessley.

And he actually meet on a car path with currently World Champion in 13 move in car pod miss something relatively very, I mean, not even relatively, you know, very simple.

But it simply was because he wasn't looking for, you know, tactics.

And yeah, I teach that game all the time now to the students just to show that, you know, even like a lead World champion, you know, he's putting his guard down and not focusing.

And then, you know, you could lose the game in 13 moves, which is like almost unheard of.

This question, this next question is a question that has taken a lot of discipline for me not to ask this question in the very beginning because I honestly don't know the answer to this question.

And it's been burning on my mind. So I've saved it for last.

You've talked about a connection between chess and understanding God. And I'm really curious to know what that connection is.

So there's definitely I think several different answers to this question. I've actually had several rabbis on my own podcast.

Actually just last night we published an episode with two rabbis who are actually both rabbis.

Obviously, but also physics experts. They actually have their own podcast physics to God.

Oh, wow, super, super interesting. The king is the only piece in chess that does not get captured.

So a lot of beginners, but they actually have a very common mistake that you win a game by capturing your opponent's king, but no, that doesn't happen in chess.

So the king is not being captured and God is always there. Wherever you are, a big believer in that.

Sometimes we don't know the answer. Why? Yeah, it does. But once certain things, but there's always a reason for that.

And I'm a big believer of that. Very, very powerful. Evan, how can dads listening connect with you or learn more about your chess programs?

Yeah, thank you so much. For one, I'm really grateful for this appearance. I do also want to give a quick shout out to our mutual friend, Rina of the better called Daddy Show for introducing us.

She's just an absolute great connector. And yeah, thank you so much to her as well.

But yeah, if anyone does want to reach out, learn more about chess. We do work with a lot of schools, companies, individuals.

Whether or not you're looking to go and pay for lessons, we definitely love to be a resource, a network or a connector, many other things as well.

Yeah, you could definitely email me at [email protected], or website, premierchess.com. And we'd love to be in touch.

And just to make things easier, if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com. If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.

I will have all of the links that Evan just mentioned posted there for your convenience as well.

Evan, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?

Just being able to kind of live in the moment, be present. I now have, as I said before, a nine-month-old daughter, Maya.

And frankly, in the last nine months, I've been somewhat behind on my business and whatnot.

And I pulled that to my wife a couple times and some other people as well. And at times, actually, somewhat regretted that.

We didn't have a babysitter earlier. We actually got one a couple of weeks ago. But at the end of the day, I have no regrets at all.

I guess I am somewhat flexible as an entrepreneur. And I've been able to kind of juggle, take care of the baby and, you know, and, you know, and, you know, running the business.

But, yeah, I just want to say that, you know, don't have any regrets. And along with that, you know, it's very easy to make mistakes.

Of course, you know, especially your first time, you know, parents' things still are all the time, obviously. And, you know, just rolled punches. It's okay. You know, every guy that makes mistakes.

That's absolutely true. Well, Evan, I have learned so much from you, so I definitely know dads listening have as well.

Thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge. I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much, my sincere pleasure.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information about The Fatherhood Challenge, please visit TheFatherhoodChallenge.com. That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.

[MUSIC]

 Are you a dad with a teen or tween and you are feeling overwhelmed and out of your league on how to parent and connect with them? Do you feel like you can’t relate to their world but wish you had a relationship where they trusted you with everything? I’ve brought a guest on the program who can help you parent your teen or tween with confidence and build a strong connection with them.

My guest is certified professional teen life coach Kevin Baker. Kevin’s specialty is empowering teens and tweens  to build self esteem, boost confidence and overcome limiting beliefs to be the best version of themselves.

If you would like to connect with Kevin Baker or receive coaching you can find him at: https://lifecoachkevin.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lifecoachkevin/

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcription - Hacks to Parenting Teens and Tweens

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Are you a dad with a teen or a tween and you're feeling overwhelmed and out of your league

on how to parent and connect with them?

Do you feel like you can't relate to their world but wish you had a relationship where

they trusted you with everything?

I brought a guest on the program who can help you parent your teen or tween with confidence

and build a strong connection with them.

He will join us in just a moment so don't go anywhere.

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere

to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers

are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone.

Thank you so much for joining me.

My guest is Certified Professional Teen, Life Coach, Kevin Baker.

Kevin's specialty is empowering teens and tweens to build self-esteem, boost confidence

and overcome limiting beliefs to be the best version of themselves.

Kevin, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Oh yeah, thank you.

Thank you, Jonathan.

Happy to be here.

We're going to start out with my favorite question.

Kevin, what is your favorite dad joke?

Why did the coffee fall a police report?

Why did the coffee mug file a police report?

Because I don't know.

Because he got mugged.

I absolutely love that joke.

Well, thank you.

My kids love to roll their eyes at all of them.

As long as the dads are chuckling, then I've done my job.

Yeah, it qualifies then.

It definitely qualifies.

Well, Kevin, let's get into your story.

What is the story behind what led you to coach teens and tweens?

You know, I guess looking way back on it, you know, it all started when my wife and I decided

to have children.

That started my journey on parenthood and being a father and learning all sorts of things

about childhood development, medical issues, mental health issues, school issues, social issues,

you know, everything that gets thrown at you as a parent.

And you know, fast forward about 14 years later, 13 years later, I found myself, I was

with a lot of time on my hands.

And I had to do some soul searching and figure out how is I going to have the greatest positive

impact on as many people as possible with the time that I have here on earth.

And through a lot of soul searching and reading and having conversations and being coached

myself, I came up with life coaching and specifically for teens and tweens because I'm in the

thick of it.

So you know, it helps my personal growth.

It allows me to have meaningful purpose.

I develop all sorts of fantastic relationships with all sorts of fantastic people and that's

what drives me.

Making a difference, you know, that moment when you're having a conversation with a kiddo

and you know, the light bulb goes off and they get it and you're able to change what was

a roadblock or an invisible barrier when you're able to get rid of that so they can move on

to be the best version of themselves.

That's really the story of why.

That's my why.

And I'm here to get the message out that life coaching is not just for adults and kiddos

need positive mentors and role models and positive influence and they need people to ask those

thought provoking questions that help pull the answers out of their subconscious because

the kiddos they have the answers, they need the guidance and the friendly input in order

to help get those answers out so they can fulfill their life's purpose.

And you said on that calling, did it really ever dawn on you that what you are really doing

is leaving a legacy behind with many teens?

It did.

It did and that was part of my checklist.

I have a whole career checklist that I used to get here and leaving a legacy was a big

part of it.

I want to have my positive impact that I can make on just one kiddo.

Have that reverberate throughout the world long after I'm gone because it's like the

old story goes you hold door open for someone going into a building in the morning and before

you know they are holding the door open for somebody else.

It's the power of positivity helping encourage that mindset that'll leave that legacy behind.

I've heard it said of dads that they can either do the hard work early or they can do the

hard work later.

If they do the work and they bond with their child at infancy the teen years are easier.

Is that actually true?

Easier than what?

You know I think the entire experience of fatherhood is hard work.

You know it's really hard.

It's very important to bond with your child while they're in infant having that you know

chest to chest time.

You know let them feel your heart beating.

Let them breathe with you in rhythm.

And it's important for you to play catch with them in the backyard.

You know when they're growing up and you know it never gets easier.

It's just the challenges get different.

The challenges change.

And as long as you're present, empathetic and guide your children to make the best possible

choices that they can in life.

You know I think that's what it's all about and if you can foster the importance of choices

and the consequences of those choices so that they're aware of them every step of the

way.

Yeah it might get easier as you go but I don't know if there's a tradeoff for infancy

versus the teenage years in particular.

So it sounds like really what you're saying is what's required is full engagement from

infancy, all the way into the handoff to adulthood.

And even then there's still going to be engagement in the adult years as well that there's

never really a moment or a time in the development phases where you really let off the gas.

I do let off the gas in the sense that I like the kids to go on their own adventures.

I like them to discover who they are on their own and make choices and decisions according

to that knowing that they're going to have consequences from the choices.

I never stop giving them an opportunity to do that.

I like to put them in different situations all the time.

Whether it be engaging in different social arenas or engaging in different activities, sporting

activities, family trips, traveling, even giving them a freedom to head into the market.

And here's the money, that's your budget, here's what we need.

Come on out when you're ready.

When you're done.

And bring the change.

But those sorts of things, those sorts of things really empower them.

And they give them a sense of freedom, it builds confidence and self-esteem.

So father's job is never really done.

Talk to that dad who thinks or knows that he's made mistakes with his child or his children

and he feels disconnected from them and doesn't know where to begin repairing things.

That one hits close to home a little bit.

And the thing that I have to say is it's never too late to be the best you can be.

And it's never too late to be empathetic, to be a really, really good listener and to bond,

and to try and discover who your child is on the inside and what drives them and what

emotions they're feeling and what thoughts they're having and how their thoughts affect

their emotions and how their emotions affect their behaviors and how their behaviors affect

their actions.

And to really find out who they are as a whole person, it's never too late to get involved

and to let them know that you're ready.

But if there's their dads out there that feel like they have made mistakes, we're all human

and we all make mistakes.

The only way I know how to be a parent is from how my parents parented me and the only

way they knew how to be parents is because they learned from their parents.

And that goes on for generations.

So we all make mistakes, but it's what we do to repair them, to make amends, get rid

of the baggage from the past and not even worry about the future that much but to be present

and engage and smile and have fun and give the kiddos the dad and the childhood that

they deserve.

I think that breathes so much hope into a dad that's in that scenario where for whatever

reason he missed out or he wasn't there, wasn't present and he feels like now he needs to

make it up and he's trying to to establish that bond later.

The other thing I find really interesting is I'll use my wife for example, she's middle

age.

Both of her parents are still very, very much involved in her life and that that echoes

what you said earlier and that is that you never stop being a parent.

Maybe the way you do it changes slightly but that never stops.

So as long as your kids are alive, it's never too late.

Never too late.

Never too late and parents have different roles all throughout their lives.

So I've three children and my oldest, I was a certain version of myself.

When she was born and three years later, you know, guess what?

When we had our son, our second child, I had changed again and by the third child, I was

an entirely different person.

So each child has different versions of their parents and parents change over time too

and we all know that the kiddos grow up and they change.

There's always a place for parenting, whether or not the relationship is at a place where

they want to accept advice or not, that's another thing.

But I think there's always a role for a parent in a child's life in vice versa.

We love stories.

Please share some of your best and insightful experiences helping teens that you've worked

with.

And one of the favorite experiences working with a kid out was he had come to me, actually

his mother had come to me and said, you know, he is very depressed.

He won't get out of bed in the morning.

He doesn't like to go to school.

He doesn't think he has a future.

I don't know what to do.

He's having suicidal thoughts.

We've been in therapy for years and we're stuck.

Coach Kevin can you help us?

You know, I really, I felt that.

That got me emotional.

You know, and I said, yeah, I sure will.

Within two weeks, this kiddo, we were able to really, really dig deep and build awareness

around some of the negative, limiting thoughts and beliefs that he had that were automatically

coming to, coming as soon as he would open his eyes in the morning.

They would start.

And we, we practiced techniques.

We had some heart to heart.

We did the exercises long story short.

I talked to him last week.

I think before his family left for Safari in Africa and he was ready to apply to colleges.

And he's so excited about his future.

It was a transformation that, you know, it happened so quickly and I'm so proud of it for

doing the hard work.

And when you get a client, when you get a student, when you get a kiddo, that is as invested

as you are in helping and making things better.

Can you see that kind of progress?

You know, it can't help but make you feel great.

Do you see any difference between the teens that you've helped, the ones that have fathers

and their lives and the ones that don't?

What difference is if any do you see?

I don't know exactly the level of participation that the fathers have had in their lives, but

I can tell you that the fathers that with no uncertainty have participated to the best

of their ability.

The kiddo holds them, you know, with a certain level of respect.

I think that is the main difference is that when the father is involved and he's an active

participant and he's, you know, helps to guide their kiddo, you know, that young adult

will always somewhere in the back of their mind.

Here are their father's voice, along with their own internal narrative.

And I think that's the main difference is that, you know, the fathers have, you know, instilled

these, you know, I call them little golden nuggets, you know, information and guidance and

tricks, you know, that they practice.

Probably that, you know, a lot of their fathers handed down to them.

Yeah, I absolutely love that.

Here's another way and a lot of times when we talk about an absent father, we, for some reason

we automatically associate that with a physical absence.

And yes, that is most definitely an absence, a form of absence, but there's also an emotional

absence.

Yeah.

That can have just as damaging of an effect on, on a teen.

So is there anything that can be done in a situation like that to try to mitigate some

of that damage and repair the relationship and bring it to health?

The most important thing, an absent, you know, an absent father, you know, maybe it's an

emotionally absent father can do one of the most important things they can do to bring

it back and try and repair that is to, is to really try to envision what life looks like

from that through their eyes and try to imagine the feelings they're feeling, the thoughts

they're having, what their expectations are.

And then really talk to them about that and say, you know, I can tell, I know that you're

feeling anxious or I know you're overwhelmed, you know, with all the schoolwork you have

or I can tell you feel, you know, betrayed or overwhelmed, you know, whatever the feeling

is that they're having, try to try to really empathize with them and view things from their

perspective because really connection is all about emotional, and it's about understanding

the feelings and emotions that the child is feeling so that you can empathize with that

because if they see that, if they understand that, okay, now we're on the same page, you

can see it from my perspective.

I think that'll go a long way in earning the respect to repair any damage that's been

done from being emotionally unavailable in the past.

I think that's a huge gold nugget just to try to summarize it and make sure we understand

correctly, you're placing a huge value on communicating their feelings, not projecting

your own, but listening, spending a lot of time listening to their feelings and then verbally

acknowledging their feelings so that they can verify within themselves that you, you understand

you're picking up on it and you can relate to their feelings that you're actually trying

to put yourself into their shoes and understand life and their world from their lens and

that alone can go a long way in creating that bond, especially if that bond has been missing,

you can repair the damage that way that I understand it correctly.

Yeah, you hit the nail in the head, 100%, you know, dad gets me, you know, that's where we

want to, you know, bring the relationship to, you know, dad gets me, he understands.

He knows what I'm going through, he knows my feelings, he knows, he knows, you know, what

trigger those feelings and, you know, now we can work together to take next steps in life

and fostering open communication about emotions is huge.

You know, that, that, I think, is the holy grail of fatherhood.

You know, if you can, if you can be on the same page emotionally with your kids and understand

the feelings, their feeling and why they're feeling them and help them to process those

emotions and regulate them, you know, that's what parents know about as a father to the

adult.

One of the things I'm learning from my own journey, my own experience is that there is

a high value when I also communicate my own positive feelings towards my sons when I

acknowledge what they've done accomplishments.

And I think what's, what I've learned is just as important is when I acknowledge their

value and I disconnect their value from their accomplishments.

In other words, you're not valuable because I decided that you're valuable, you're valuable

because you're created.

You have your own value and, and there's nothing I can do to add or, or detract from that

value, it is who you are.

And so I am here just enjoying that, appreciating that and, and you need to know that, you need to

be aware of your value.

And there is nothing that you can do to change that value, to make it grow or to make it

less.

You are valuable the way you are.

And, and I've learned that when I do that boy, that also goes a long ways in towards that

bond.

Oh, yeah, what a, what a positive way to approach that.

I love that.

You know, I just, you know, their existence, you know, their existence is valued.

You know, they are a part of you and a very big important part of you.

You know, there's nothing that that could happen that anybody could do or say.

That's going to make you value them less sort or love them less.

There was a guest, the former guest that came on here, and it was Dr. Canfield, and she

talked about eye contact and how important eye contact is.

So I've learned that, and I'm curious what you think of the importance of asking questions,

and making eye contact when you're asking those questions, like just questions about

what's going on in their world and mixing that with eye contact.

Oh, eye contact is one of the most important forms of communication.

And you can read so much from it.

So when you're having that conversation, when you're asking a question to your, to your

child, you know, you see what happens with their eyes.

Do they go, do they go to the right?

Do they go to the left?

Do they go up?

Do they go down?

You know, do you know, are they, are they trying to, you can tell, you know, are they trying

to remember something or are they trying to fabricate something or, you know, what exactly

is, is going on and you can read a lot into their body language from how they respond

with their eyes.

But you, intently looking into their eyes gives them a sense that you're engaged and you're

present and you are not only interested in your question, but interested in their answer.

And that helps them to feel valued, helps them to feel empowered.

Like I said, it's one of the most important aspects of how we communicate.

What are some of your favorite bonding rituals with your teens?

Hmm, you know, my favorite bonding ritual with my kiddos, uh, two, one is skiing.

We'd love to go skiing as a family.

It's one of those things we look forward to every winter and it's priceless.

You know, my wife and I say that the family that skis together stays together and we're,

we like to practice that.

And I love that.

And you know, the other bonding ritual is, you know, it's a little bit unorthodox, I'd say,

or maybe not.

But we like to play video games together.

Yeah, I think it's really important for, you know, me to see what they like to do,

and for me to get into their world a little bit.

And so when we have an opportunity, you know, to all five of us, you know, get on a, a

co-op game together, you know, work together as a team, or, you know, play hide and seek, you

know, that sort of engagement in the digital world sort of lets them know that, you know, dad's

fun, you know, dad can hang.

And, you know, I think that goes a lot way, a, a, a long way in, in helping build bonds.

I really love that.

One of the things that I've learned is how valuable having a family hobby can be, things

that you all enjoy that you can just have fun doing.

Uh, in our case, one of our family hobbies is remote control cars.

Everyone has, has their own car that they like.

And when we go on vacations, but it's not just vacations.

I mean, if the weather is really, really nice, we'll just go right outside in the yard.

And, uh, we just have lots of, uh, we'll trade cars and, and switch vehicles.

Yeah, it, and it's fun.

It gets really interesting looks from other families, they'll walk by and they'll see us

having a good time and it's, it's making an impression on them as well.

So, yeah, I would, I would definitely say, don't underestimate the, the value of what a

family hobby can do for, for bringing that closeness together as a family, that joy

that you need.

Yeah, it's, I would say it's, it's up there with, uh, sitting down at the dinner table every

night.

Yeah.

And then that reminds me of that.

Are there any really good, dinner time rituals that can also help with, with bringing

that closeness?

So, one thing, you know, we try to incorporate to really foster positivity is to, is to ask

our, our kiddos to, uh, you know, give a compliment to one of their siblings or to us.

Oh, wow.

And, uh, you can feel the positivity and you can feel the love and you can feel that, you

know, we all, we all care about each other.

I mean, and the, and the other thing we can do is, you know, say, hey, you know, what, what

can we do better?

You know, this is a judgment-free zone.

We all live together.

We all want to live together half-lead and peacefully.

You know, what's one thing that I can improve on and grab that feedback.

You know, and take that in and, and work on it, you know, because it's important.

So, you know, it can bring a whole lot of information to light, something we can work on and it's

important to always be developing that trust and foster that ability to have open communication

within the family.

And the dinner table is the best place to do it for us.

My dad was in and out of my life, but, uh, one of the pleasant memories I have of him was,

was a dinner time ritual that he started and, uh, everybody was around the table and,

uh, and he, he pounded this fist on the table and he had a very stern look on his face and

everybody looked at him and wondered, uh, oh, you know, what's going on here?

And he looked at everybody and he said, I have one rule at the table and the rule is very

simple.

He said, there is to be no talking at the table doing meal times.

And then he smirked and he said, unless you either have a joke or a story.

And then he smiled and he said, I'll start and he just, and he just went off on a story

and then when he was done, somebody else had to jump in with theirs.

And let me tell you that was probably one of the most fun meal times I remember.

Oh, that's perfect.

They probably kept it so positive too.

It did.

That's great.

That's great.

I love that you have that memory.

So Kevin, how can dads connect with you or learn more about what you're doing or get

help with their teen or tween?

Sure.

Yeah.

My, uh, the website is lifecoachkeven.com.

Uh, you can also see me on Instagram at lifecoachkeven.

Uh, you can schedule a call.

We can get it on the phone and talk about what you're seeing with your kid up and talk about

what kind of results you'd like to get.

All right.

And just to make it easy, if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com.

If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description and I will have all

the links that Kevin just mentioned.

I'll have him posted there for your convenience.

Kevin, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?

My challenge to dads listening now.

The next time you are about to have a situation with your child and they've said something to

you that you don't like when you're trying to get them to do their homework or you're trying

to get them to clean their room.

You're nagging them about something.

When they, when they say something to you, before you react, I want you to be a little

angry to take, take a minute, take 60 seconds, pause and breathe and walk away.

Wow.

And I think you'll find your child is going to do what you want them to do.

They just want not to be nagged about it and to feel like they're in control of when

they do it.

Well, Kevin, it has been an honor having you on the fatherhoodchallenge.

You've given us so many good nuggets and actionable steps that any dad can start doing

now and it's appreciated.

Thank you so much for being on the fatherhoodchallenge.

Thanks for having me, Jonathan.

It's been a pleasure.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned

in this program or find out more information about the fatherhoodchallenge.

Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com

[music fades out]

Were you raised with harsh parenting techniques? Do you still rely on the same harsh parenting style you were raised with when parenting your own kids but find you’re not connecting with your kids or getting the results you want? If you’re ready to try something different, my guest will share some tips you can begin using right away.

Bryan Saint-Louis is a Youth Inspirational Specialist and Speaker with over a decade of experience in driving positive outcomes in education and parenting. And now I’ve brought his expertise to help you dads listening now.

You can connect wit Bryan Saint-Louis or learn more about what he's doing by visiting https://www.bslspeaks.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bslspeaks

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@bslspeaks

Email: [email protected]

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcription - Harsh Parenting Results and Alternatives

---

Were you raised with harsh parenting techniques?

Do you still rely on the same harsh parenting style

you were raised with when parenting your own kids?

But find that you're not connecting with your kids

or getting the results you want

if you're ready to try something different.

My guest will share some tips.

You can begin using right away in just a moment,

so don't go anywhere.

- Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge,

a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere

to take great pride in their role.

And a challenge society to understand

how important fathers are to the stability

and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

- Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.

My guest is Brian St. Louis,

a youth inspirational specialist and speaker

with over a decade of experience

in driving positive outcomes in education and parenting.

And now I brought of his expertise on the program

to help dads listening now.

Brian, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

- Jonathan, thank you so much for having me.

I really appreciate it.

And it says an honor.

Thank you so much.

- Brian, what is your favorite dad joke?

- Man.

So I heard this one and I actually like this one a lot.

So someone comes to the dad and says,

"Hey, dad, Sunday was a sad day."

And then he says, "But yesterday was a sadder day."

(laughing)

Okay, all right, good.

We got it.

(laughing)

All right, I love it, we got it left, man.

That's all I need.

(laughing)

It got me.

- All right, but I hope the listener

has got a little left out of that one too, but.

(laughing)

As well.

- I'm sure they did.

That was awesome.

- Oh man.

- Well, Brian, let's start with your story.

How did you get involved with working with youth

and helping parents connect with their kids?

- I was 20 years old.

I used to work in a, as a,

not speaker necessarily at that time, right?

But 20, I was working as a, as a Bible teacher.

And I remembered I was embossed at the time

and there was a group of kids.

I wanna say about 70 kids and it was three of us.

And we were supposed to be basically helping them out

for, for the whole month that this series was happening.

And we were supposed to be teaching in the Bible.

Ultimately, the two other guys kind of stepped off

and found myself being the one having to take care

of a room of 70 kids between the ages of 13, 12, 13 to 17.

- Oh wow.

- Yeah.

And of course, I had some people who would come in

and help out and such, but for the most part,

the brunt of that focus was on me.

But man, when I tell you, I was,

I was so impressed with these kids being able to,

ask answers or certain questions that I had.

But then I also realized that I was very keen on connecting

very well with this age group because, you know,

I wasn't so old, you know, I'm only 20,

even though they said I was old, but I was only 20 at the time

and so I wasn't so far away from being a teenager

and I remembered what it felt like to be a teen,

trying to understand certain concepts

and also feeling like a lot of what was being taught

had no relativity to me.

And so I was very specific and intentional on the questions

that I was asking these kids ended up being such a powerful

time that brought me and led me to continue to do work

with youth when I was 21.

I started working at a youth juvenile detention facility,

just seeing the power of how radical empathy

was able to make me help build stronger relationships

with these youth but also impacting their lives

when they get out of that juvenile detention facility.

Being in that space at such a young age

helped me to see how powerful youth really are

and understanding how much they need strong supports

in their lives because a lot of them,

sometimes we see kids who are acting crazy,

we see kids who, you know, speak out of their disrespectful

and such and I always ask myself the question,

who taught them?

What was it that happened in their background

or their life that got them to the place that they were?

That they were and ultimately I'm not responsible

for who they are before they meet me

but because of the connection that I am right now with them,

now I'm responsible of modeling the proper behavior

that they can now choose to use in their future.

And so this is something that I started

when it was about 2021 and just seeing the power of how youth

are need that strong mentor and youth need that one caring adult

has pushed me to want to continue in the work with youth as well

but then as you said, right, as I got older, became a dad

I'm realizing how powerful it is for these children

to have strong figures in the home.

And so now as I'm also working with youth,

my main focus as well is also uplifting

and supporting the adults in the lives of youth

so that they can also know how to properly connect

with those teens and the children in their lives as well.

- The next question could be a tough one,

but definitely an important one.

Harsh Parenting has been a reality for many generations

and is argued to be effective.

This includes everything from yelling to even corporal punishment.

In fact, some say that we have crime rates

because parents are often too soft on their kids.

I'll give you one example I saw.

There was a post by a very popular pop star bragging

about the fact that she actually uses corporal punishment

on her kids and I believe she's a,

either a Gen Xer or a millennium.

And I looked in the comments and the comments were flooded

with mostly baby boomers who were jumping in there

and congratulating her.

So I'm curious, you know, if this is,

if this rule, this idea that harsh parenting is effective

and we don't have enough of it

and that's why kids are going wrong these days,

is this true or is this a lie?

- I don't think that's true.

We have seen high rates of criminality throughout the years

since the 80s, since the 90s.

And corporal punishment was absolutely a major use

in parenting at that time.

So it's not as though because of corporal punishment,

it made for better conditions.

A lot of youth were treated that way, right?

They had corporal punishment used

and yet crime rates have not necessarily lowered

or were lower back then than they are today.

I think there's a lot of more different factors

that deal with why youth are still necessarily

being connected or getting involved with criminality,

especially with the rise of social media,

they're being influenced in a major way,

which I think can also contribute to what they want

to do or how they're connected to other people around them,

but it's not necessarily for corporal punishment.

And in fact, I mean, when you look at the question, right,

for the fact that people argue as effectiveness

and I know a lot of people wanna say

mental health has also risen in these years,

but in the 80s, 90s, early 2000s,

how many people were actually going to counseling

due to their mental health?

We weren't necessarily seeing a lot of individuals

who were connecting to psychologists, the therapists,

because it was such a taboo concern.

And individuals were not necessarily trying to see

what was going on introspectively in their minds.

And so many of them, the statistics show

that mental health is on the rise right now,

but if we were actually doing the right work

to better ourselves, to connect ourselves

with mental health professionals,

when we were dealing with traumatic events,

we would have seen the same level of mental health

back then as well.

And I know people, for instance, Jonathan,

I know people love to say, well, it worked for me

and look how I turned out.

But I always ask the question,

if you go back to that child that you were,

don't think about the child, the adult that you are today.

I'm not talking about the adult that you are today.

I'm talking about that inner child that you were.

What was it that you're inner child needed?

Not that you're an adult and you can see things

in a better perspective.

What was it that you're inner child needed?

Did they need all of that punishment?

Did they need all of that yelling?

Even if it happened once or twice,

did they need it happening 10 times a week

or 10 times a day?

Right?

A lot of times we sometimes look at the perspective

of who we are today, but we don't look back

at who that inner child was

and what they probably needed better

in order for them to live a better life,

not just focusing on the impact that it has on our today,

but realizing that child probably needed

a little bit more love.

And if we looked at it that way,

maybe we would have a different perspective as well.

I can weigh on those two a little bit

from a slightly different perspective.

A lot of these arguments tend to reside in,

especially in conservative religious organizations

and denominations.

This is where we really tend to see that argument stick.

And I can tell you from my observation

that a lot of those same adults that are arguing

that have that argument that say,

look how I turned out and they did the same thing

to their kids that was done to them.

I can tell you that in churches

that have tried to grow youth programs,

a lot of times the biggest people,

the most of the people who stand in the way

in the growth of youth programs

and youth fellowship programs in a church

are often those same adults.

They are often the ones who are oppositional

to youth programs and youth initiatives.

They're an opposition to youth leadership and youth growth.

And you see more hostility in their interactions

with other youth.

That's been my observation.

- I can give you a quick example on that.

I remember one time 'cause I used to be a youth pastor, right?

And I remember there was a time where they blamed the youth

for whatever, like I was in a board meeting,

blamed the youth for the mess that was in the church

for the wires that were messed up in the audio upstairs.

And I was just sitting back and I was a little bit confused

because I was asking myself the question,

is that even true?

And I remembered as they were naming some of the things

that were happening, somebody said, oh no, no,

that wasn't Pastor Brian and them, that was somebody else.

That was another group.

And then they said, oh, what about the audio equipment

in the tech room?

Somebody raised their hand, oh no, that wasn't the youth,

that was X, Y, and Z, I couldn't remember exactly who it was.

And I just looked at them and I said,

you realize how you're quick to attack the youth

on what's happening here.

And you blame the youth on things

that they didn't even do in the first place.

The perspective was the youth caused problems.

And that's the philosophy that causes a lot of issues

that I see, like you said in churches

and in many different organizations as well.

If they don't, if they have a philosophical view

on how they see youth,

they will never be able to actually see them

as the empowering leaders that they are right now

and they could be even better.

Also from a biblical's perspective,

the biggest argument that's used

for enforcing corporal punishment on youth

is the scripture tech spare the rod spoil the child.

Yeah, I love that one.

Yeah, and what's interesting about that one is the rod.

The word, the Hebrew word that's used for rod

is the exact same word that's used for a scepter,

a scepter that a king or a queen would use.

And what's the purpose of a scepter, a royal scepter?

What is the purpose of it?

I mean, isn't that the scepter to basically

not like crown or shoulder royalty of the individual?

In that sense?

Yeah, it's a symbol of leadership.

It's a symbol of authority.

So when someone approaches the throne,

the king or queen isn't hitting anyone with the scepter.

And so what's really being said there is dads step up

and be a parent, be a dad.

I can even add to that right,

because Solomon's father was who?

David.

And what did David say about the rod?

It's a comfort.

Exactly.

That rod and that staff, they comfort me.

Why would, if the rod was meant to be

and to destroy and to demean,

how is that a comforting tool?

And so Solomon,

it's not.

It's an anxiety and it's a source of trauma.

Exactly.

And so I love that you brought that up.

Not a lot of people talk about the rod in that sense.

And so I love that you brought that analogy

and understanding of how the rod is really supposed to be.

Like you said, the symbol of authority.

That's amazing.

One of the biggest arguments I hear for why dads yell at their kids

is because it gets their attention.

And it's the only way that they will listen.

What are some other options dads have that would get better results?

Man, that's a really good question, Jonathan.

And as a father myself, I would say that one of the things

that have helped me to connect more with my children

is not the loud yelling dad voice.

But it's the presence.

It's just a strong presence with that child.

That child feels safe with me.

And I even tell him that.

I talk to him and I tell him, listen,

if you listen to me, I will guide you to places

that you will grow much better than me in your life.

And he's only four years old.

I have a four year old and a two year old.

And I'm very keen on making sure that they understand

how safe they are around me.

Because I'll be honest, growing up,

I used to be afraid of my dad.

Me and my dad right now have a very amazing relationship.

And that took time to build, but I used to be afraid of my father.

And so it wasn't very this strong loving connection

that I had.

It was more so on a fear base.

As I grew older, I understood certain aspects.

I also understood how he grew up and why things are the way

that they are.

But that doesn't mean that I have to do what was done to me

in a certain sense.

And so when I speak to my kids, and listen,

I'm not going to be a liar here as well as to say,

I've never yelled.

But when I yell, I'm quick to apologize.

I'm quick to tell them, hey, look, that he used a yelling voice,

that I didn't need to use in this moment at all.

This wasn't urgent where you were crossing the street

or something was happening to you.

I made a mistake in yelling at you right now.

And then I start breaking down.

Why is it that I did that in the first place?

And then what did we need to do in the situation?

How could we do this better?

And I tell you, as sometimes we think we

can't converse with our kids.

These kids are so smart.

They take up a lot of information.

I just spoke to my child this morning,

and I told him, and said, Levi, need you to come downstairs.

Then he says, OK, dad, he didn't come downstairs.

I didn't yell.

But what I did, I switched up the question.

I said, hey, Levi, what did I ask you to do?

Right?

I didn't say, come downstairs again.

And then now that aggravates me.

I told him, what did I ask you to do?

And then he says, oh, you asked me to come downstairs.

I said, OK, can you do that now?

And then boom, he just walks right downstairs.

A lot of the times--

Interesting.

Yeah, no, no, a lot of the times, man,

if we actually just converse deeper with our children.

And so one of the techniques that I've learned

is don't repeat your question twice.

When you give your question to your child,

hey, can you go clean that up?

And they'll be like, OK, yeah, clean it up.

Let's say they don't do it.

The next question should be, because now you're

giving yourself a sense of authority and power as well

while you're asking this question.

But you also don't have to be yelling

at reverting to anger and aggression.

You just asked the question, hey, what did I ask you to do?

And so now, instead of them having to be abrasive and such

back and building that type of connection,

it just thinks to them, so, oh, sure, he asked you to do this.

And then, all right, yeah, let's get to it.

It's simple techniques, but these are things

that have to be done from early on.

We're not expecting children to be adults.

And I think that's one of the problems that we have as parents

and as far as we expect them to be at a higher level of regulation

than we are, or maybe not higher than us,

but we expect them to be at higher level

than we think they are supposed to be.

The people who need to regulate their emotions

and know how to speak to them is always the adult.

We're modeling the behavior that needs to be shown.

And so when that child comes to us, we are able and should be capable

to show them the way to move in that light.

And so now they can see how to speak, how to understand,

how to act in certain situations.

So it makes it a lot better now when we're speaking

with assertiveness, not aggression, assertiveness.

And when we have to lay down a specific--

I would say tone, but this is what needs to be done in the home right now.

It's still done in a way that the child is still

loved, cared for, and communicated properly with.

But that's my perspective.

That's what I've seen has worked.

And a lot of the people who I've learned from goes, again,

I had mentors growing up.

And when those mentors showed me how they speak to their children,

it allowed me the opportunity to say,

I want to go a different route when I have children

to speak to them and to raise them a certain way as modeled better as well.

Let's talk about bonding.

How early does the bonding process start?

And how can dads create and maintain a strong bond with their sons or daughters?

Yeah, I love that question.

When I think about bonding, that happens since day one, right?

And somebody gave me some really good advice

when I had my first child that I could raise.

When I felt a bit confused because the child

was always wanting to be her own mother,

because at the end of the day, she was breastfeeding.

And so I found it kind of difficult.

How do I bond with the kid?

Or what am I supposed to do?

And I found those moments where I would just

be around both of them, just sitting, just connecting.

Somebody told me this very specific thing.

They said, when you take care of the mother, you're taking care of the child.

And one of the things that I found myself doing and learning early on was

the better I take care of my wife, that child will also be taking care of supported

and bonded with.

But then I also needed my own time.

I needed time to bond with my child.

I needed time to connect with my kid.

And one of the things that--

and I'll just be really transparent with this.

This was 2020, so the height of COVID.

And my child was only about one years old at the time,

but I was playing a lot of video games.

And I realized I asked myself the question.

I said, man, I'm playing more time or spending more time gaming than I am,

spending with my child.

Because COVID was-- nothing was going on.

There was a lot of confusion.

Everyone was just home, so I needed something to do.

And I found myself that something to do was to game instead of just sitting there

and chilling and just looking at my kid, making funny spaces and reading

or whatever the case may be.

Now, I'm not saying everybody has to do this, but I threw away my games.

I threw away-- actually, I sold my computer,

and I threw away the rest of the games that I had because I asked myself the question,

I said, do I care more about this than I care about my child?

And I wanted to be a lot more present and connected with my kid,

in which allowed that very thing.

I deepened my connection with my child, making some radical decisions

that were helpful to our relationship.

And four years later, he's almost five.

Man, when I tell you, my kid loves me.

I love my child.

We're so connected with everything that we're doing.

It's because I made some decisions that allowed us to build a strong connection

instead of waiting years later.

I don't need to wait until that child is six, seven, and throwing a baseball

or can play basketball or can do extra curricular activities

or it's good at something that I like in order for me to bond with them.

I just need to connect and just sit and converse and read and just build that bond.

And I think that once we start doing that more often,

these will deepen our connections with our children.

And no matter what they do, they'll love the connection that we spend time with.

It doesn't matter what we do, it's just the fact that we're spending the time together.

What can dads do if they've made mistakes in the beginning

and they don't know where to begin creating a bond and connecting with their kids

later in that journey?

I mean, first thing, man, just forgive yourself, number one,

because we don't need to hold on to that baggage, right?

We all make mistakes.

And so forgive yourself and move forward with that, right?

Because at the end of the day, if you show me anybody who says that they're a perfect father,

they're just a liar.

At the end of the day, let's just be real.

We make mistakes.

Let's understand that.

Let's forgive ourselves and let's move forward.

That's number one.

And then number two, as we're taking those steps,

let's really understand that child, right?

And one of the things that I, what I mean by that is,

don't just look at the fact that there are certain things that you love and care for.

And try to understand what they truly love and care for too,

and bond with them and those aspects in their lives.

So it's not just the things that you love and now you're projecting your life on them,

but you're able to now have this communication or the sharing bond

where you both can show what each other love and care for, and ultimately,

that child sees, "Man, my dad cares about this too in my life."

So I think that's very important as well.

How can dads connect with you or learn more about what you're doing?

Yeah, a lot of the work that I'm doing right now is more so centered around youth development

and empowerment and understanding how to truly build up the next generation.

And so my work has done a lot in schools.

And I do a lot of conferences as well where I speak to fathers,

where I speak about mental health, where I speak about youth development and empowerment,

I do a lot of work with schools and with classroom presentations.

I know a lot of dads might not be in that, but I do community work as well.

And so what that means is we're looking to bond parents with educators

so that they build a stronger connection to their schools.

That's one of the things that I think is very missed right now is the education to parent ratio.

And to even go a little bit deeper, as being an educator,

we see a lot of women in education, but we don't see a lot of fathers or dads or men in education

as much as we used to.

And so one of the missions that I'm looking to do is really start pushing men back into the schools

because it helps those kids to be able to see their fathers as leaders as well,

to care about their education in that sense.

And so that's a big mission of mine, but you could easily find me either on BSLspeaks.com.

You could even book me to come to different places that you would like for me to come speak at.

And then also my Instagram is BSL_Speaks as well.

And just to make this easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com,

that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description and I'll have all the links

that Brian just mentioned. I'll have it posted there for your convenience.

Brian, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?

Ain't no, my challenge is it's not about doing something specific. My challenge would be

to challenge your thinking, challenge the way that you view your relationship with your child.

I want you to challenge even the way that your child sees you.

Think about how does your child see you as a father?

And I want us to really just start thinking how we can deepen our connection with our kids.

I believe in this concept of empathy and radical empathy even more.

The action that it takes and empathy allows us to try to understand and to imagine the feelings

that that child is doing or feeling at that moment.

So I want us to try to challenge ourselves to think more empathetically.

To think about how that child is seeing their situation and how we can better be fathers,

be dads, be pouring into our children in a certain specific way.

And so with that challenge, I know that our perspectives will deepen and be able to connect deeper

with our child as well.

Brian, it's been an absolute honor to have you on the Fatherhoodchallenge.

You've given us tremendous wisdom and actionable steps that any dad can do

two day to do right now and get results.

And I really appreciate that.

Thank you so much for being on the program.

Thank you again for having me.

I really appreciate it, Jonathan.

Looking forward to hearing and seeing the impact that our fathers can take from us.

Thank you.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhoodchallenge.

If you would like to contact us,

listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhoodchallenge.

Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

[ Simultaneous expressions ]

Do you have a daughter that you are trying hard to bond and connect with but are struggling? Today in this episode you’re going to get inside access into the relationship between a real father and daughter, what makes and keeps them close and how you can have the same relationship with your daughter.

My guests are Reena Friedman Watts with her dad and co-host of the Better Call Daddy podcast and show, Wayne Friedman.

To connect with Reena Friedman Watts or Wayne Friedman or listen to the Better Call Daddy Podcast, visit https://bettercalldaddy.com/

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcription - Inside a Real Father Daughter Bond

---

Do you have a daughter that you're trying hard to bond or connect with but are struggling?

Today in this episode you're going to get an inside access look into the relationship

between a real father and daughter and what makes and keeps them close and how you can

have the same relationship with your daughter.

If you're ready to be inspired and ready to make some changes, help is on the way in

just a moment so don't go anywhere.

Welcome to the Father the Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to

take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers

are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.

My guest is Rina Friedman Watts with her dad and co-host of the Better Call Daddy Podcast

and show Wayne Friedman.

Rina and Wayne, thank you so much for being on the Father her Challenge.

Thank you for having us.

We're excited to be here.

Wow, I love that radio voice.

Let's start out with my favorite question of all.

What is your favorite dad joke and this is to both of you.

When I think of dad joke, I think my dad loves to say, you know what your problem is?

You like me.

Oh, you fall this mustache.

Your father's mustache.

Yeah, at the end of every reaction that we do, my dad continues to surprise me with his

reactions, by the way.

Sometimes I don't know what he's going to think about the guests that I've interviewed.

He's always like, when I have a good reaction to his reaction, he's like, you know what your

problem is?

You like me?

I'm like, yeah, I do.

Then I put that in my intro even because we say it so much to each other.

It is a true story.

I've listened to a few episodes and that's exactly what happens.

He does.

Wayne definitely says that.

Well, Wayne, let's start with you.

It's obvious you and Rina have a bond.

You can't co-host a program or podcast with your daughter without that strong bond.

So where did that begin?

Well, I think I've tried very hard to have a bond with all three of my girls and you know,

you have to find what interests them and you have to be part of their show.

In the beginning, you would think that a father, whether he has sons or daughters, wants

your children to be part of your show or my show, but it turns out that trying to force

or trying to put your values onto theirs, they have to accept it on their own.

It's got to be their choice.

And if it isn't their choice, it's really not going to work because eventually when someone

is telling you what to do or telling you how to feel or instructing you of what you can

do and what you can't do, eventually a person is going to revolt and say, you know, I've

had enough of that spaghetti in meatballs.

I want to try something else.

And I think a parent has to try to set some guidelines, but you have to be able to give

your children an opportunity to stand on their own two feet and be able to blossom and be

their own person.

And the best way to do that is to have communication that's not just one-sided.

It's got to be where it's reciprocal, where they have a voice that is going to be heard.

And if you can't get it from your father and your mother, where are you going to get

it from?

And if you get it from other places, it's sometimes a very tough learning experience.

It's a lot nicer if you can get it at home.

That's interesting.

So, if we go a little deeper into that, and if I'm understanding you correctly, what you're

really doing is you are modeling those values, but in the world of your daughters.

That's correct.

Rina, you've referred to your dad as your best friend whom you can share anything with.

What are your earliest memories of your dad that have made you feel close to him?

I was thinking about this question, and one of the earliest memories I have is decorating

my dad and our dogs with stickers and jewelry.

And he was always willing to kind of like play along to my shenanigans.

And you know, that progressed as I grew older.

I was putting on like musical performances and he would sit on the couch and clap his hands

and then you know, when my grandparents were in a nursing home, he encouraged me to go sing

for them and sing for the residents.

And I think that goes along with what he was saying, you know, encourage your kids' talents.

Each one of us kind of had our own talents.

I like to sing and I had a sister who played the violin and she played baseball and I had

another sister that was very into art and painting and whatever interest we had, he really

got us the lessons and went to our games and you know, cheered on the sidelines and was

there with, you know, my parents, my grandparents and it became a family affair.

I mean, as you can imagine, having three daughters, there was always us competing for our parents

attention and our interests and what we wanted to do versus, you know, what they wanted us to

do.

But they did make us believe that we could do anything that we set our minds to and I think

that that's really cool.

Like they never said you can't major in vocal music or you can't major in sports medicine

or how about physics or how about becoming a doctor.

Like I was pre-med for two and a half years and then switched my major to communications

and broadcasting and they were really okay with it.

They're like, okay, if that's what you want to do with your career and I did end up doing

that for my career but I was much closer to a bachelor's of science and I was on a full

scholarship at a college and I ended up transferring from the University of Charleston where I was

doing a little bit of partying to Purdue, which was a much more serious university and

I left behind a singing scholarship and decided I wanted to try something else and I didn't

really see a lot of resistance there.

You both co-host a podcast and show called Better Called Daddy.

Where did you come up with the idea of working together and how was that decision made?

How do that decision make you both stronger?

My dad is always who I've called.

He's always the one that can stay on the phone for hours at a time and pretty much handle

most situations that I've been in.

So that has been a common theme through my life.

I think I decided that would be a good idea for a show after I worked for a top podcaster.

I worked for Kathy Heller host of Don't Keep Your Day job and I was like seven months pregnant

helping her produce a 350 person event.

This was also after I had co-hosted the next level people show so I had kind of already worked

in radio, co-hosted another podcast, then worked for a top podcaster and my dad was in LA

on business meeting a colleague and I was seven months pregnant putting out tables for

sponsors and keeping the guests happy in the green room and he was like, I will help you

put out the tables.

I will help you set up the booths.

I will make sure this event runs smoothly.

He was worried about me moving chairs.

He was like my production assistant for the day.

I've been behind the scenes, kind of got my start in television at the Jerry Springer show

right out of college and worked in reality TV for a while and then like I said worked for

a bunch of influencers and I felt like during the pandemic it was kind of my opportunity

to step in front of the camera and use all of these skills that I had learned for all

of these years and I knew my dad wouldn't back out on me that he would be the best co-host

and that he really synthesizes my thoughts well and he's there for me and I thought that

his wisdom and his intergenerational flare would make a good show.

Everything I'm hearing from what you're saying is comes back to the earlier question of your

dad actually modeling this idea of being in your world of helping you thrive in your world

and helping you grow.

And his parents modeled that too.

He worked with his parents for 40 plus years and he learned every aspect of the business

and that's something that my grandfather encouraged.

He said if you want to have your own business then you need to learn all of the departments

not just had to manage people but had to do the work that you're asking the people to

do and so my dad worked alongside his parents saw them model that and you know it wasn't

just working together in the factory it was once he came home to you know they learned

how to invest in the stock market together.

We had a close-knit family where we got together on weekends.

I mean I spent the night at my grandparents house until I was about in fifth grade they had

like a special mattress for me in their own room.

I remember my grandmother on the typewriter doing the time cards and my grandfather always

had the news on and I grew up with my grandparents like a five minute drive away and whenever I called

them my grandfather was like be right there a little girl you know.

So my grandparents were a big part of my life like my you know I grew up in Kentucky so

people get married young and my grandparents were like second parents to me.

Everything I just heard you say I think can be summed up in one word and this is what I see

happening in the dynamics between you and your dad and that word is legacy.

There's a legacy generations deep that's being left and I think that's absolutely

amazing.

Yeah thank you.

I appreciate that because that's what the better called daddy podcast is about is really

sharing not only our legacy but asking people to investigate the legacy of their own families

and with their own experiences so that really coincides with what the theme of the show is

about.

So let's dive into the spiritual dynamics.

What dynamics of your father daughter relationship mimic the image of God and how does that relate

to all of us is in a true that at least in our family and with the religious background

that we have were obligated to really pass to the next generation everything that we've

learned and values were supposed to be able to pass down as the belief of God to the right

things and to be spiritual and to be educated and grow your whole life.

That's a legacy that we feel is very close to God and the fact is is that we just don't

live forever and the only way that we can have a chance of living forever is if we pass

on through the generations our knowledge and our wisdom and pass that along and hopefully

if you're successful in business a little bit we can give a tool of passing on and some

inheritance financially as well but it doesn't take much to blow the money.

So we better make sure that we pass down good values as mentioned already earlier that your

children and your grandchildren your great grandchildren want to learn and grow and have

values of caring about others and not just yourself and try to make humanity a goal not

just individual goals.

I love that it's funny to you because he always says have a couple kids your own you'll see

how easy it is.

It's a big job and the funny part is is that it only took a second to make arena but the

fact is is that it's a life long commitment it's a life long I don't know how to say it

I guess it's really where you have to set the right example for your children always

they don't necessarily follow what you say they follow more your actions of what you do

so you really have to set a good example hands on your whole life because your children

are watching you at all different ages of their development are are following what your

lead is and I think we have a responsibility to do the best that we can to set the best

example and like I said it's got to be done to where an individual has to understand that

part of our existence is to be able to give your children every opportunity to have a continuum

and without that I think our individual lives are would be more shallow.

There's something really profound that you're bringing up and that is the fact that

we have a spiritual responsibility and accountability as fathers for our children for the legacy

that we leave our children we are accountable we are responsible for that that's what it

means that's this whole idea of mimicking the image of God which is the way he set it

up this is the way it was designed to be and if I really dive into the emotional component

of it to me that's overwhelming that's that actually I would probably just go ahead

and say it's a scary thought to me when I look at it that way does it ever feel overwhelming

to you.

Always certainly can be and sometimes when you even think you've done a terrific job it

can all blow up in your face because events can occur out there in the real world that

can give you a major setback and the fact is is that we have to learn to pivot we have

to learn to understand that it's not the end of the world and we just have to find maybe

a new path or a new way of moving forward but we can't allow the pitfalls to stop everything

that we're trying to build.

Well the good news is we don't have to do it alone God has promised to help us if he's

given us a responsibility that great he doesn't typically give responsibilities like that

without access to helping resources from him to accomplish that.

I agree with you 100 percent.

Wayne and Reena I've been told by experts that eye contact is essential to a bond and connection

with your daughter is this true and what's your experience with this?

Oh absolutely.

The funny part is is that I can tell when I'm looking at Reena whether she really hears

me or if I have surprised her with an answer it shows up on her face just like she's written

a book to me.

So I think that expression or facial expressions as long as you know going with the eyes as

well I think you can get a good read you can sometimes really know if somebody's got

something in their hand by the way they're acting that's why a lot of times they have a hat

on or a hood and dark glasses because they don't want to give away the emotion of their

hand at all where they're trying to just be a blank because I do agree that we our bodies

give us a lot of communication of how we really feel where it's very hard to fake that.

So I agree with you that eye contact facial contact whether a person is you don't have

them see a sweat okay or be extra nervous because like I said when it comes to being in

the clutch you want someone that can step up to a higher level when you're competing when

the pressure is on not someone who's going to melt.

I think I have your eyeballs.

My face says it all.

Right.

It's like I said she can be communicating just by her reaction to things and sometimes I have

to spend a little extra time calming her down even when she has said nothing okay just

from the facial expressions.

And I think a mother has that instinct even with her own children.

I mean even in the way that she's able to pick up baby cries that's what I was thinking

is you know you can tell when they're hungry you can tell when they're hurt you can tell

when they're sick.

So I think a lot of it is instinctual and another thing that I wanted to say too was my relationship

with my dad and even my grandparents has led to a belief in God because my dad always told

me as a young kid that as long as he's alive nothing bad will ever happen to me and I think

you know when I'm having a hard time I even am like if you love me like my dad loves me

then help me out right now like I know he puts up with a lot.

You know I talk to God like that because of my relationship with my dad I feel like I'm

able to believe in God and in the hardest times.

Oh wow yeah that's powerful and I think that's another form of a legacy that's being left.

I would and I would argue maybe the I would argue maybe that's the most important one.

They're all very very important but that's the most important legacy because that's what

was really designed all the way from the very very beginning the very first book.

Scripture is about that.

If that's being achieved that speaks to a huge success that's a big win as a parent.

You touched on a different dynamic and that is the the mother daughter relationship.

The very same thing happens there.

Yeah I think that it's important to be able to talk to to both of your parents to feel

understood and even in what we're trying to achieve with our show and I think what you're

trying to achieve with yours as well is by hearing people's stories and by giving them

time and not rushing through that and and making people feel like their story matters or

that their experience matters or that they can help someone that literally can save people's

lives.

That literally can give people legacy and purpose.

It's truly unbelievable what listening to someone tell their story can do.

My dad even encouraged me to put ear pods on his 93 year old mother and have her tell me

stories of where she came from so that I could get that before she wasn't able to tell that

story anymore and now I'm so glad that I did that and he found a recording of his dad when

he was clearing out the factory that they used to work at together.

It was like a cassette recording of he was getting ready to fire an employee and the other employee

who had referred him to the company was like I'm sorry I referred that guy like he was making

me look bad and he was like well you know thank you for letting me know that but I think

my grandfather was like hitting record just to document what he was getting ready to do

and I had that cassette transferred to an MP3 and I did an episode where I interviewed my

grandmother and then did a little transition explaining that I had found this tape and so

I had my grandfather in the same episode and his philosophy on work and then my dad responded

to the episode so it was like a triple generation episode me and my grandparents and my dad

and that too is like the power of storytelling the power of legacy and the power of documenting

for the next generation.

I think even your daughter was part of that show I think it was four generations.

Yeah my kids have participated even in the podcast through creating intros asking some

of the guests that I've interviewed questions coming up with different commercials with me.

I think that if you have skills that you can pass on to your kids chances are they have

some of those talents and they might even not not know that they have those talents so if

there's something that you're good at I'm even trying to tell my dad teach teach my kids

how to invest you know teach my kids how to take care of the yard teach my kids how to

take care of their grandparents I think them seeing me wanting to go see my 95 year old

grandma even though it's their spring break but you know how many years do I have left

with her I think that that teaches them lessons just in in going to visit remember your

actions sometimes speak louder than words.

Yeah I saw a news article that they opened like a child care center in a nursing home they

are testing that model because old people love babies and kids and kids love old people

and there is I feel like that it's missing from society today like kids live away from their

parents and parents live away from their parents me my dad flies to Florida like once a month

to go help out with his mom and you know we're also spread out and like I said earlier in

the episode I grew up with both sets of my grandparents within a five ten minute drive

away and they were coming to all of my performances or all of my school events and grandparents

day now grandparents day is like a parent coming or an aunt coming or a friend coming from

the community and and that's great to it's just there is wisdom from those other generations

and I think we still need to kind of incorporate some of that for learning.

I want to move on to a different direction why is it essential for dads to drop their anger

immediately and always when they interact with their daughters.

The truth of the matter is is that if you want your daughter to have a relationship with

a man down the road you have to give even an example of what a man should be like to

your daughter so you have to treat her right first you have to be understanding first you

have to be easy with your tone first because if you don't do that what can happen is that

they will meet someone out there and if you're yelling at your daughter or if you're overdoing

it or if you're being holding them back or telling them what to do and they can't do this

then they can't do that.

Well guess what then they're going to use that example and say well I love my dad and

my dad was like that maybe I've got to find somebody that's like my dad but not necessarily

in a good way but in a bad way and then that's how girls can end up in an abusive relationship

because they think that that's normal so I think it's very important especially with

a daughter that a father has to be extra extra extra patient and understanding and set the

best possible example.

You want to be a little rough with your son you want him to be a little tougher but with

a daughter you got to treat her like she's a piece of pie with whipped cream and a cherry

on top.

Love that answer.

You know what are your thoughts on this?

I think that my parents got married super young and to be honest my dad was very passionate

in his younger years with expressing himself and even if there was some yelling I think

it's really important just to tuck your kids in at night and let them know that you love

them and to drive them to school in the morning and ask them what's on their mind and if they

want to talk for an hour or two at a time do that and if there are things that you can't

talk about like you know I went to a grandparent so that's what comes to mind for me is there

are going to be times where you guys don't see eye to eye or that you're not going to be

as close I mean even when I was in college I was definitely figuring out myself and wanted

some years to do that but just let your daughter know that kind of like what you stand for

and what your values are and that you're going to be there and you're going to be accepting

and you know that you can call it any hour.

How can dads listening connect with you both with any questions or to learn more about

what you're doing or to just listen into your podcast?

BetterCallDaddy.com and we love when people have questions for us that's something that we

do at the end of every episode we say is there anything that you would like to ask my

dad and it can be around business it can be around a personal struggle that you're having

people have even said that they want to adopt my dad and that is the biggest form of flattery.

As we close what is your challenge to dads listening now?

Dad should express to their daughters what they're proud of them about.

I don't think that dads do it enough maybe they just don't think too and I think it's

really powerful to do that.

Let your kids know that what they've done is good and that you see that in them.

I think letting your kids know that you see their gifts stays with them for a really long

time.

It's something that they can always draw from.

But dad really has to be able to step up and be able to show that they're going to be

there for their daughter no matter what.

I feel the same thing about a son too.

You've got to be there unconditionally and sometimes it's hard because if they're doing

certain things that are against the grain that you don't believe in but you have to try

to put your you know how the shoe fits on the other foot and try to see where they're coming

from despite your own beliefs.

But it's hard.

Sometimes it's really hard but you have to be willing to at least try to find some middle

road if you can.

Wayne Reena it has been a pleasure having you both on the fatherhood challenge.

We've given us so much wisdom, much needed wisdom.

I've been looking forward to doing this episode for a long time because I knew it was going

to be packed with so much wisdom and certainly true today.

Thank you so much for being on the fatherhood challenge.

Thanks for having us again.

We appreciate it.

Thanks Jonathan.

Loved your questions.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned

in this program or find out more information about the fatherhood challenge.

Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

[MUSIC]

Has the world fallen under a curse? If so what is it? If you've ever wondered why it seems the world is spinning out of control with things like violence, anger needless suffering and mental health issues, the root cause of most of it is the same and so is the solution.

To learn more about The Fatherhood Challenge or to listen to more episodes visit https://www.thefatherhoodchallenge.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thefatherhoodchallenge/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/99144858/admin/feed/posts/

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcription - The Curse From Ignoring Fatherhood

---

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to take great pride in their role and a

Challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their families environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. It's always good to have you with me.

I always appreciate each person that listens. There's many things you could be listening to, many things that you could direct your attention to.

But you have chosen to listen to this program and you've chosen to listen to this episode.

And I just want to tell you right now that I appreciate you. I appreciate each and every one of you.

Thank you so much. This program is going to be a little bit different.

You've probably already noticed a little bit of a change in the format. We have a lot to cover.

And it goes pretty deep, so we're not going to waste any time. We're really just going to dive in.

So I want to talk about the Fatherhood Challenge, what the Fatherhood Challenge is doing, why it exists, and what it has to do with you.

The Fatherhood Challenge was, was a direct call in my life by God.

This wasn't something I had any desire to do, nor did it, did I have any interest in doing something like this.

But it was a calling that I felt. I've talked about this story on other episodes of how the Fatherhood Challenge started.

I made a deal with God. And the deal was that since I didn't want to do this and I didn't know anything about how to do something like this,

the deal was that God would take ownership for the program.

I was willing to be the grunt. I was willing to be the face of the Fatherhood Challenge, the voice of the Fatherhood Challenge.

But this would have to be his program. This would have to be his agenda, and he would have to take charge and run it.

He would be responsible for opening doors and closing doors that I or the program were not meant to go through.

And I can tell you to this day that he has kept that promise.

When I think about why the Fatherhood Challenge exists, it's a very sobering reminder of where God's priorities are, and where our should be.

So we're going to take a look at those priorities. Where exactly are our priorities individually?

Where are our priorities as a culture?

The heart of God is very, very, very close to the Fatherhood topic in the Fatherhood agenda.

And there's a very, very unique reason why, and we're going to explore that in depth.

And why Fatherhood should be close to you?

So if you've paid any attention to the Fatherhood Challenge, if you've looked at the website, if you've looked at the logo, one of the things you're going to see as part of the logo is the mission statement and purpose.

The mission statement and purpose comes from Malachi 4-6. His preaching will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers.

Otherwise, I will come and strike a land with the curse.

We don't like to talk about the curse part. The first part of that text really makes us feel warm and fuzzy.

But the second part is just as important to talk about as the first.

Originally, when we think of this scripture text, we think of thousands of years ago in the time of Elijah, and this has been part of the Elijah message.

But we think of it as a story that was meant, that was written thousands of years ago, and it was,

and that it was meant for that time. And yes, it was meant for that time as well.

However, that scripture text is part of a prophetic message, and that prophetic message is equally valid for our time.

It is relevant to the day and time that we are living in today.

If you want proof of that, all you have to do is look at some of the bad things that have happened in our country, specifically things like mass shootings.

You don't even have to look at that. You can just turn on the news and watch the news every night.

But if we want to go even deeper, yes, go look at things like mass shootings.

So every time a mass shooting happens, what is one of the first two things that gets talked about?

One is gun control, and two is school security, or if it's happening in malls or in airport or some other public place,

how to secure that environment. What you won't hear talked about is the home life of the shooter.

Where was the father in that shooter's life? You will never hear that talked about on the news.

You will never hear that explored. And why is that? It's very simple.

It's a lot less painful to talk about things like gun control and security than it is to talk about what's going on in our homes.

But it's time that we do because that is the curse that got us specifically talking about.

But it is an escalation of violence. It is it is it is being out of control. It is a culture that is out of control.

It is individuals who are out of control. And the root of most of that is lack of a father,

a father who is either emotionally absent or physically absent or often both. This is the root cause of it.

And this is what we will do anything we can to avoid talking about.

There are many countries that are taking the fatherhood initiative seriously. But if you turn on the news,

this is not something that you will hear discussed on the news. You'll still hear you might hear some good stories now and then.

But it's generally bad news that you hear when you turn on your local news. We aren't talking about fatherhood.

The whole of the place is I would expect to hear some sort of a sermon or some sort of talk about fatherhood and the importance of fatherhood and what it means to God.

I would expect in a house of worship to hear that discussion or to hear a sermon like that happening.

But I would challenge you to reflect back on when the last time was that you heard a sermon about fatherhood and about the image of God.

So if we can't even talk about fatherhood and a house of worship, how do you expect to hear the topic of fatherhood being discussed on a national level in any country.

Let's talk about what happens when we ignore these warnings when we don't take it seriously.

Fatherless has been found to have significant impact on crime rates. And here's some statistics and research findings on the topic.

According to the US Department of Justice children from fatherless homes are more likely to be involved in criminal behavior.

They are at a higher risk of committing a variety of crimes including drug abuse, violence and juvenile delinquency.

A study published in the Journal of Research and Crime and Delinquency found that fatherless children are more likely to engage in criminal behavior compared to children who live with both parents.

Research from the National Fatherhood Initiative also shows that children who grow up without a father are more likely to experience poverty, drop out of school and have behavior problems, all of which are risk factors in criminal behavior.

You think this might be a reason to take fatherhood seriously? We have prisons, both local prisons, we have state prisons and we have federal prisons that are overcrowded.

Now let's talk about something else of the fatherhood initiatives that are out there that do exist fatherhood programs.

There are very few programs out there that are actually involving God that actually talk about God and involve God as the solution.

Being the fact and truth that we are made in God's image does it seem does it make any kind of logical sense to leave God out of the process of bringing fathers and children together?

Does it make any kind of logical sense to leave God out of the process of a father trying to improve himself?

Does it make any sense when we are made in God's image?

So in our arrogance, have we actually accomplished anything? Have we actually made any improvements without God?

Let's explore what religion actually contributes to the fatherlessness discussion.

There are some studies and reports that have explored the role of religion, including Christianity in addressing issues related to fatherlessness.

And here are some of the key points and findings.

Many faith-based organizations, including Christian churches, play a significant role in providing support and resources to families affected by fatherlessness.

These organizations often offer monitoring programs, mentoring programs, counseling services and community support to help address the challenges faced by children growing up without fathers.

Research has also shown that religious involvement, including participation in Christian activities such as attending church services

and engaging in religious practices was associated with a greater family stability. This can include stronger parent-child-relationships, reduced likelihood of divorce and improved overall family well-being.

The Christian faith emphasizes the importance of fatherhood and provides guidance on the roles and responsibilities of fathers within families.

Many Christian teachings stress the importance of fathers being present, supportive and actively involved in their children's lives.

So let's examine this a little bit further. But if you actually go and look into, for example, if you look at a lot of radio networks, a lot of radio programs, you'll be hard pressed to find programs specifically dealing with fatherhood.

They are out there, but they are few and far between. I am very, very proud to be part of a network that actually cares about fatherhood.

And yes, I am one of the programs on a network that does actually care about fatherhood.

Let's talk about religion. Let's talk about what God has to say about religion.

And this scripture text comes from Isaiah 1. This is God talking.

What makes you think I want all your sacrifices, says the Lord? I'm sick of your burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fat and cattle.

I get no pleasure from the blood of bulls and lambs and goats. And when you come to worship me, who asked you to parade through my courts with all your ceremony?

Stop bringing me your meaningless gifts, the incense of your offerings disgusts me.

As for your celebrations of the new moon in the Sabbath and your special days for fasting, they are all sinful and false.

I want no more of your pious meetings. I hate your new moon celebrations and your annual festivals. They are a burden to me. I cannot stand them.

When you lift up your hands in prayer, I will not look. Though you offer many prayers, I will not listen for your hands are covered with the blood of innocent victims.

Wash yourselves and be clean. Get your sins out of my sight. Give up your evil ways. Learn to do good.

Seek justice. Help the oppressed. Defend the cause of orphans. Fight for the rights of widows.

Come now. Let's settle this, says the Lord. Though your sins are like scarlet, I will make them white as snow.

Though they are red as crimson, I will make them white as wool.

If you will obey me, you will have plenty to eat. But if you turn away and refuse to listen, you will be devoured by the sword of your enemies.

I, the Lord, have spoken. So yes, that's a fascinating one from Isaiah. Do we have a lot of wars today?

Yeah, are we talking about fatherhood? No. Could this be part of the curse that God talked about that God tried to warn us about thousands of years ago?

Yeah, absolutely. I believe that 100%. Orphans are a parentless. They are without a parent.

And there's lots of ways for that to take place. A parent can be physically absent.

An apparent can also be emotionally absent and sometimes both. And this includes fathers.

So yes, the fatherhood agenda, the fatherhood topic is front and center to God's heart.

And as long as we are choosing to ignore this issue, as long as we are choosing not to talk about it,

and as long as we are deliberately choosing to leave God out of the discussion, the curse is promised.

And it is actively happening. God is not interested in your piety.

God is not interested in your religious rituals and your services. He's not interested in your plain church.

He's interested in how you treat those around you.

If you've done the homework, if you've done a Bible study on it, then you already know very, very well

that an expectation before you come and take part in the Lord's supper.

The expectation is that you first go make things right. The starts in your home.

The starts with your wife, the starts with your children. You first make things right in your home.

Then you go make things right. With your brothers and sisters in the church,

with people outside the church that you've wronged, you go make those wrongs right.

You apologize where you need to make apologies. You make things right. Then you come before the Lord

and participate in the Lord's supper. That is a very, very, very clear expectation.

Now, let's talk about children. Children in this day and age are treated like an inconvenience.

They are treated like a burden. If you want proof of that, all we have to do is talk about abortion.

We're not going to spend, we could easily spend an hour episode alone just talking about abortion,

but we're not going to do that. But the point is made, if you spend any time thinking about or

researching the abortion issue, it's not hard to find the root issue in that is that children

are an inconvenience. That is the central theme in abortion. Something a funny thing about children

is that when you have them, suddenly it's not all about you anymore. You now have to care for someone

else. You have to think about someone else besides yourself. It's very, very normal to have fears,

certain fears. Am I ready? Am I going to be able to actually care for this child? Not feeling prepared.

And you can have these feelings when you expect the child. But it's another thing when you actually

don't want the child because it's going to up into your life because it's going to ruin your life

because all you want to do is think about yourself. When thinking about yourself is the root motive

for why you want to have an abortion, that's a problem. And it is not the unborn child's problem.

It is not the unborn baby's problem. It is an internal problem. That's reason enough

to prove that children are often seen as an inconvenience in our culture. If you go into certain

churches, children are treated with the philosophy that they're to be seen but not heard. There are

many churches where if a child starts getting loud, a deacon will escort the mother or someone will

escort the mother out of the church or shame the mother or shame both the mother and the child.

Jesus, however, had a very different take on children. Children flocked to him. He made time for them.

He made them feel like they were special, like they were wanted. If we treated children that way,

if we treated our own children that way, if children were seen as a blessing,

instead of a curse or an inconvenience, well, I don't think we really would have to be talking

about the fatherhood issue as urgently as we need to now. So what is scripture have to say about

children? If we look at Psalm 1273, that text says children are a gift from the Lord.

They are reward from him. Well, that's a different way of looking at children.

Children being a reward from God. Children being a gift from God. What if our culture thought of children

that way? Because the funny thing is when we neglect the fatherhood issue, when we ignore

fatherhood and when we ignore God's role in fatherhood, what we're really saying is that we don't

like children. What we're really saying is that children are not important to us. It's the same thing.

You can't separate the father from children. Children need their father. I have seen time and time

and time again. The damage that happens to children when they are missing their father.

When a father is either alienated out of a child's life or a father chooses to alienate

himself from his children's life. And sometimes it happens other ways, other unfortunate ways that

can't be, there's nothing you can do anything about such as death. Fatherlessness can happen that way.

But the earlier the absence happens in the child's life, the deeper the damage, I've experienced it

in my own life. This is how I know. And I've seen it in other people's lives. And this is why

when we ignore this issue, what we are also saying is that we don't care about fatherless children.

They are not a priority in our culture. We don't care about them. If we don't care enough to talk

about fatherlessness, and if we don't care enough to talk about God's role in solving it, then we really

don't care about children. Now let's move on and let's talk about the image of God. What is the

image of God have to do with any of this? If you ever look at the Lord's prayer in scripture,

and this is how Jesus taught us to pray and taught us disciples to pray. The very first thing is our

father. We address God the father as that as our father. So is it a stretch for us to understand

that we are made in the image of God? This is in scripture. It's in the book of Genesis, the creation

story. We are made in the image of God. I don't know what part of that our culture refuses to accept

refuses to understand and deliberately ignores. It's a tall order for a father to try to understand

that his relationship with his children is a reflection of his relationship with his heavenly

father. And that's the way it was designed to be. It's a tall order. You weren't meant to deal with

this alone. So why do we choose to? What exactly are we scared of? So as we wrap this up, I want to

talk, I want to challenge you to look at yourself, to look at yourself. Where are you in this whole

discussion of fatherhood? Are you a missing father in your own life and you're struggling with how

to be apparent to your own children? Are you struggling to push past your own pain to become

available for your own children? Are you one of the people that are not really interested in

the fatherhood agenda and talking about it and you'd rather just ignore it and pretend it's not an

issue? If that is you, why do you feel that way? What's the root reason why? Are you one of those people

who refuse to involve God in the fatherhood discussion? Because you're angry with God over your own

issues or your own pain that you're going through. If you fall into any of those categories,

I'm not going to sugarcoat the solution. The solution may or may not be what you think or what you

want it to be, but the center of the solution and the solution itself is God. It is God.

God has always been open to us. If you're mad at God over a painful past or and I've been there,

I know what that's like. If you're angry, if you're mad at God because you were abandoned as a child,

the solution is to talk to him. He's not afraid of your anger, believe me, but he wants to hear from you.

He wants to reveal the truth to you. He wants to heal you. He's not willing to abandon you.

He's not willing to leave you sitting there in your anguish.

But if you don't talk to him, he's not going to force himself on you either. That's not the kind of

God he is. So I want to challenge you to reach out to God if you're struggling as a parent

with anything, whether it's raising a teen, whether it's lack of sleep and trying to have patience

to take care of your family and not even sure how to do that well, talk to God about it. Bring everything

to him. He wants to hear from you. Everything. He wants to hear everything from you. Every little detail

he wants to know about and he wants to be involved. So don't shut him out. Don't leave him out.

Your anger brings that to him as well. He wants to hear that. Don't hold anything back.

And the other thing is trust. And that comes with time and that comes with trying him.

Give him a chance. Open up to him and then watch what he does.

So as we close and wrap up this episode, I want to pray a prayer for you. And so I want to ask that

you open up your heart and take this prayer and is your own. Heavenly Father,

thank you so much for each person listening now. I want to ask that you will personally send

your Holy Spirit into their life, into their heart. And I want to ask that you will

that you will come close and that you will read their what's on their mind and what's on their heart.

It could be pain from a traumatic past. It could be an abandonment from a missing Father in their life

that could be from a death that could be from a dad who's walked out. Whatever it is, Father,

I want to ask that your presence will be there with that dad, with that person that you will be

especially close to them that you will bring healing. The Holy Spirit is known as the great healer.

And so I want to ask for healing for that person that you will heal their heart.

For the dad that is feeling stressed to the breaking point, feeling overwhelmed, unsure of what to do in

raising raising his children. You are also the source of knowledge and you are also the source of

wisdom. And so I want to ask that you will give that dad wisdom and knowledge to know what to do.

It may be help. Maybe that dad needs an extra hand and needs help.

Whatever resources that dad needs to take some of that burn in a way to let him know that he's not alone.

I want to ask that you will provide that for that dad that he can parent that child that he can

love that child with all of his heart and give that child what he needs. And at the same time

that his own heart would be filled. So that is my prayer, Father.

For Father's listening today, help them to understand and realize they are not alone that you

love them beyond what they can comprehend. That you care about them, that you see them,

that they are not alone. Thank you so much, Father. In Jesus name. Amen.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us,

listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information

about the Fatherhood Challenge. Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

[Music]

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[NO SPEECH]

If you’re a dad who’s experienced sexual abuse and/or physical abuse as a child and it has wrecked your life into adulthood, this is an episode you aren’t going to want to miss. You might be desperate for real lasting healing.

Dennis Knight Sr. is the founder of King Me Ministries, a ministry that focuses on equipping men to be who God created them to be. Dennis had a dark childhood that included sexual abuse and he will share his story and journey of how he survived the abuse and came to a place of forgiveness and true lasting healing.

You can learn more about King Me Ministries and connect with Dennis Knight Sr. at: https://kingme-ministries.com/

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcript - A Father’s Journey From Being Abused to Healing

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If you're a dad who's experienced sexual abuse and or physical abuse as a child and it is

wrecked your life into adulthood, this is an episode you are not going to want to miss.

You might be desperate for real lasting healing. And my guest has been through all of this and

he will share his story and his path to healing with us in just a moment so don't go anywhere.

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire

fathers everywhere to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how

important fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment. Now here's your

host, Jonathan Guerrero. Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. My guest is Dennis

Knight Senior. Dennis is the founder of King Me Ministries, a ministry that focuses on equipping men

to be who God created them to be. Dennis has had a dark childhood that included sexual abuse

and he will share his story and journey to how he survived the abuse and came to a place of

forgiveness and true lasting healing. Dennis, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

What a pleasure. The pleasure is definitely mine. I look forward to what we can discuss today.

So Dennis, let's start with a dad joke. What is your favorite dad joke?

Let me see. I guess I would go with why do chicken cubes have only two doors?

Why do chicken cubes have two doors? I'm not really sure.

Because if they had four, they would be called chicken sedans.

Thank you for sharing that. Dennis, let's start with your story. What happened to you as a child

and how did it impact you as an adult and as a dad? That's a great question. First, thanks for the

opportunity of being able to share this. I'll start by saying that I never thought I would be able

to. But there's something that has clicked recently and I see that God is asking me to do this

for purposes that I don't fully understand. But I can see that it is it seems to be a life raft

for some people that are drowning in where I was and I see that God is starting to get glory for that.

So I thank you for the opportunity in having me on as your guest.

Even from an early age, I wanted to know Jesus. I discovered Jesus at the age of about seven or eight.

I did that by watching this TV show on a network called USA Network. The TV show or the cartoon

was called Storybook and it was a story of two young kids who would travel back into these

biblical times and what they would see in these biblical stories coincided with something that

they were dealing with in their real life and they would understand how God wanted them to respond

to that. And watching that cartoon just, I just fell in love with Jesus. I can't fully explain it.

I come from a home where Jesus was nothing more than a curse word and I was the first person to

to seek him out and to know him and what I know now is that he was seeking me out the entire time.

I wasn't seeking him. But watching this TV program, I had a neighbor who finally the next phase,

she stepped in and invited a bunch of us kids in the neighborhood to go to this vacation Bible

school program at a local church. I loved it. I was all in and all my buddies went and not one of

them enjoyed it, but I loved it. I was so drawn to Jesus even more because of this vacation Bible

study of vacation Bible school. That same church invited me to go away to a summer camp for a week

that their church was hosting and it was there that they filled in the gaps and told me who it was

that I was so drawn to this person of Jesus. And I just fell deeply in love with him and I put my

trust in him and I wanted to be a saviour. And I knew even at that moment at age eight, I wanted to be

a pastor. And what happened was this church dropped us off at this camp and that person that was in

charge, that pastor retired. And a week later, we were actually picked up by a brand new pastor.

And that pastor was young and hip and he was kind of cool, but we had no idea that was even happening.

And back home, I lived to go to church and I wanted more of God. I wanted him more than anything.

And I was invited by this new pastor to stay over, to help. He made me feel special included. He kind

of filled in some of the things that I was lacking in my own relationship with my family. And my hope

was that in spending time with him that he would show me more of who Jesus was. And unfortunately,

he didn't. He started to sexually abuse me and that abuse lasted for several years, progressively.

And as I've come through that healing process, one of the hardest things for me to do

was to see like, where were you in this Jesus? Why didn't you stop this? Why would you lead me

to a man who I thought was going to show me more of you, but you allowed him to hurt me and

ways that are unspeakable? Coming through that healing process, those were the hardest years of my life.

And looking back, I realized that life is lived forward and it's understood backwards. And I say that

to say that I didn't see how that childhood abuse impacted me until I've been removed from that

in healing. And as I look at that, I see that my own self worth was in the tank. I constantly

doubted myself and my ability. I had these big dreams that I thought were of God, but I had zero

confidence that I was the man enough to accomplish those. I felt like I was always posing. And I was

getting really good at hiding the pain and brokenness, especially from other men, hoping that they

never could tell that I was damaged and even dirty. I was always confident that other men knew

that I was less than a man for what I allowed to happen to me. At least that was my thoughts.

I feel like my chance at being a man was stolen from me and I could never get that back. As a

dad, I was completely overprotective. I wouldn't let my kids sleep out anywhere. I trusted nobody. I

always thought that they wanted to hurt my child. And when it came to my walk with Jesus, I knew that

he loved me, but it always felt that he loved me for some selfish reason. He loved me for what he

could gain from me. I saw him through the eyes of my abuser. Jesus loved me, but he had an ulterior motive.

He didn't just love me. He loved me for something that he could get from me. And that was really,

really difficult. If God could have prevented such a horrible abuse from happening, then why didn't He?

My own faith in Jesus has never really wavered. As I look back on this and this is the remarkable

side of it, I have always believed in his ability to have saved me through this. I believe that he can

bring good from what's happened to me, but I question, I just, I feel like that question has to be,

to be, to be answered. If God were ever to be trusted by the men who have been abused or fathers who

have not been able to prevent their own kids from being abused, we need to have an understanding of

this. We need to have an answer for that. And yes, God could have stopped my abuser. And in some

ways, He tried, right? He tried to put those guardrails to prevent evil from coming into this world.

It's complicated and that's hard to understand and it takes some faith. But here's what I understand

and choose to believe about why God allows bad things. I am sure there are greater minds that can speak

to this, but for me, this is what God has allowed me to believe and where He's allowed me to connect

back with Him. I think of a couple things. I think of the book of Job and had God decided to protect me

and let no harm come to me. I feel like Satan could have sent a God. Of course, he's going to follow you.

Of course, Dennis is going to be a good pastor. Of course, he's going to be a good dad. Of course,

because you've protected him and you keep him safe from any harm. God could have challenged God

if God chose to just supernaturally protect me. But God let Satan cause some really bad things to

happen to Job and to me and other people that have been abused. But one thing is interesting. God

trusted, a Job trusted God. Job was frustrated. Job was angry, but that was all directed towards God.

Job's eyes never left God. He questioned. He was frustrated. He was angry, but he was angry

in a relationship with God. And what I've discovered is Satan doesn't want me to worship him.

Satan's plan is so much more simple than that. What Satan seems to want to do is he wants my

eyes to leave God, to look at my situation, to be afraid of the evil that happens. And in doing so,

Satan wins. Satan's goal is simply to get my eyes to not look at my savior through the hardest

times of our lives. The second thing that I look at is the story in John 9, where the disciples come

across this blind man and they say to Jesus, Jesus, who sent him or his parents? In Jesus looked at them,

he said, "Neither. Sometimes some of these bad things happen to people so that the glory of God

can be shown." And I see the story of Job and the story of Jesus in John 9 on the same level.

Because Job chose to trust God through unspeakable things, unspeakable loss. God was honored. God was

able to look at the enemy and say, "See? I can allow the worst things to happen to them, but when they

keep their eyes on me, everything's okay. Everything works out. Everything makes sense." And so,

why does God allow some of that stuff to happen? I don't fully know. But I do know in His promises

and where I get my hope is through the Prophet Joel, where God says through Him. He says, "I will

restore the years that the Locus have eaten." And so, while I can't understand why God allowed it,

why He didn't prevent it, I know that He has poised to get glory for Himself. I know He's poised to get

to make good things come out of this in my own life, even if it's just to make me more like His Son.

I know this promise that He says, "What was stolen from you, Dennis? All the things that you've had

to go through, because you've trusted in me, because your eyes remain on me. One day soon, I'm going to

restore all that stuff that was stolen from you." And so, that's kind of where I am. And that's how

God has allowed me to answer why He has allowed this to happen in my life.

I think it's important to note as well that God doesn't cause these bad things to happen. He

allows them. And I think the other part of this to understand about God is that it says repeatedly

in Scripture that God really loves justice. Justice is a very, very big deal to Him. And when we go

to the story of Job, and we look at how it resolves that God restores Job, in part of that is all of

His friends who were mocking Him, who were ridiculing Him, criticizing Him, who were really of no help.

And they had a very holier-than-thou attitude, like, "What did you do to bring this on yourself?"

You need the piety that they were trying to brag about and demonstrate to Job.

In the end, that comes back to bite them because when God makes it very clear to them that they were

wrong, and that they had actually sinned, God made it clear, "I'm not going to listen to your prayers,

I'm not going to accept your sacrifices or anything until you have made first made things right

with Job." When you have repaired things with Job and repaired that relationship,

yeah, then go make sacrifices to mean, "Then I'll listen to your prayers and forgive you."

Yeah, I think it was Tim Keller who said that. He made such a good point. He says,

"Jobe was permitted to share his frustration, to share his anger, the share, the regret that he was

ever born." He was allowed by God to do that, and God didn't call that sin because what Job did,

which was different than his friends, is Job directed all of that to God. Job stayed in relationship. Job

kept his eyes on God through it all. At the beginning of that, it says, "Even amongst

this Job chose not to sin." He never dishonored God. Even when his wife said, "Curse God and die."

He was like, "No. Even if God takes everything away from me, or if He blesses me,

my eyes are going to remain on him." For me, that's the deeper theological reason of why God

allows bad things to happen is because I do believe that God's eyes are going back and forth in the

world like He tells us. He's looking for that one man or that one woman who sold out to Him,

that they can be exposed to some of the darkest and deepest evil, and yet they're not wavered.

Their eyes don't leave Him and say before Satan, say, "Look at my child. I allowed you," as you say,

God never causes that, but I allowed this. I allowed you access. I allowed you to do this to my child,

and look what they chose to do. They continually looked at me. They continually found their strength.

And even when I refuse to answer the why, they still said, "I'm holding on to you." And that's

really been the difference in my life. As I look at some of the men that I have counseled who've been

kind of hurt or hurt through the same man, it's kind of that same thing. I see their life. I see

such brokenness and so different. And what I see are men that refuse to trust God in this. And I think

oftentimes, I'm like, "Why am I so different?" I came from the same type of family. I was abused the

same way. Why am I different? What's the different component in my life, in my story, than theirs? And I

think, and it has nothing to do with me. It's a gift, or at least I think God has allowed me. My

eyes have just been able to look at Him and say, "God, it doesn't make sense. That was hard. That was

scary, but my eyes are still looking to you. Looking to you to help me make sense of this. Looking for

you to keep your promise that you're going to make something good out of this one day. I really think

that's the difference for me." The next question is going to seem really strange. But I know that there

are a lot of people, a lot of dads who have suffered abuse. And this question is lurks somewhere

in the back of their mind. But as an adult, did you ever feel in your mind that you were making a big

deal out of your childhood abuse than it really was? Did you ever feel maybe a sort of guilt or feel

like in some way it was your fault or that maybe you might have been making some part of it up or you

have a detail fuzzy here or there? Did that ever cross your mind? I'm glad you asked this question,

because as I was confronted with these memories and what do I do with them? I always felt like I had

to prove to other people. And I felt like maybe I am making a big deal about this. Maybe I didn't

see it the way it really happened. Maybe I've manufactured some of these feelings. So I think it's a

super important question for those guys because as God, if there are other men that have been abused,

they have to wrestle with this question. So it's I think it's a paramount question in the process

of healing. But for me, it's a strong yes and a no. I never thought I was making a big deal of the

abuse. I never really had to deal with that. I always instead I avoided it. I felt that somehow I

must have misunderstood my abusers intentions. I must have invited this somehow and here's where it

gets really until you understand the psychology of being groomed and abused. I must have invited

this because I loved this man and I kept going back when I could have said no. And that's a really

hard thing to explain to people. He wasn't my dad. He wasn't my caretaker. I could have just said,

I don't want to go to church anymore. I wasn't a part of a family where church was part of our life.

That was just me. That was my thing. And I feel like I gave him access to me. I allowed him to spend

time with me. I have so many times said, I actually loved this man who hurt me. And that's a hard

thing to wrestle with. How do you love somebody that's abused you? What he did for me in so many

areas of my life, he enriched my life. He expanded my understanding of how the world works.

He took me places as a poor kid that my parents never could have taken me. He I was important to him.

I went on trips. We hunted, we fished, we hiked, we traveled to places that my parents never could

have taken us. And what I realized is those daytime hours spent with him shaped many good parts of my

life. But the nighttime hours is where the abuse happened. And I suppressed and refused to believe

that he hurt me. And that was a hard thing to really wrestle with. How do you love your abuser? And

there's some psychological reasons for that. And there's an explanation for that. But that's really what

I worked through. And I say yes, too, because I hate seeing the damage that this is causing even his

family and his children. And on so many people that he ministered to, I see lives being just crushed

because of his sin. And so I wear that weight of, what is it necessary for me to say something?

Was it necessary for me to let this come into the light? Why didn't I just continue to just let it be?

And what changed everything for me was two things. And they were very important for me. The first

one was hearing that this man had groomed several other boys at the same age that he groomed me.

And these men's lives have been destroyed. And when that was shared with me,

that's when all the memories were triggered. That's when the sleepless nights came. That's when

the nightmares came. That's when that's when I was sort of having to go back into what happened to

me as a child, all those feelings that I have ignored and suppressed. And the second thing that was

so helpful is my wife, she said to me one day, she said, Dennis, this didn't happen to you, the strong,

loving, and more than capable man who can protect himself in those he loves. This happened to an

eight-year-old boy. And you have to stand up and you have to protect and have give a voice to that eight-year-old

boy for the sake of the other eight-year-old boy, so that this is happening to those things help me

to put in perspective what happened. Who did it and whose fault this was? It wasn't that little eight-year-old

boy's fault. It was the abuser who knew exactly what he was doing. So that's definitely something I've

had to wrestle with and other people coming out of that that trauma. They're going to have to because

I think the enemy and the world may not understand it and they're going to sort of push that question

to you and you're going to feel that that question whether they ask it or not, you're going to feel

like it's right there on the surface. They want to know, how did you allow this to happen? And that's

a tough thing to answer, but it's important. You started King Me Ministries. Tell us about it.

Talk a little bit about God's purpose for dads. Yeah, so I remember sitting in bed one night and

having just finished ministry and thinking maybe God's finished with me and I woke up in the middle

of the night and it literally just felt like God said, King Me Ministries and trying to process,

well, what do you mean by that? What is where is that? And quickly realize that if you've ever

played checkers, the whole point of playing checkers is you take your little pieces and you march

them down to the end of the board, your opponent side of the board and you hope to get to that one spot

where you look at them and you say, King Me and they have to put that second piece on top and that

second piece symbolizes your ability to move in any direction. You can do what you couldn't do before

you arrived at that point and King Me Ministries is just that. It's dads who look at their sons

and they say, "Ah, I have intentionally raised you to be a man and you have arrived and let me

let me king you. Let me now enable you to move in any direction that you need to. Let me make you

a force on this field that you're playing in this life." And so King Me aims to celebrate men and

dads who get it right. They know how to intentionally raise their kids in a fear and then the love of God

and we know that there are some men who want to do it right. They just don't have the tools. They

don't have the know how. And so we want to come alongside them and equip them with what it takes

to be a good dad. And of course the third component of that is there are some boys that will never have a

dad and we want to step in the gap there and provide what those fathers have not. The absence of those

fathers have not. And what we're working to do even as we speak today is we're trying to build a

three phase program working with dads and their sons. And the idea of phase one is to take boys at

a ten year old and you take them and their dad and you give them a weekend away, four days away

and it's just filled with adventure. In that first phase it's an invitation from a dad to a son

to enter into this journey from this day until you're eighteen where hopefully at the culmination

of this program we are going to just celebrate your arrival into manhood. And phase two is just kind

of a checkup four day adventure where 15 year olds and their dad the same dads hopefully

and boys they come back a few years later and it's just a check in another weekend of adventure where

they're kind of spoken into and equipped to strengthen their own relationship and ultimately

phase three is where the father is going to stand before their son in this third time away. And

they're just going to just sort of commemorate their arrival for a for a father to look over into

his son's eyes and say son you have intentionally entered into this journey of becoming a man.

You and I have worked through these these things that we think are important and and and

identify you as a man and I want you to know that you've done everything needed to arrive at this

point and I just want to celebrate your arrival into manhood. How can dads connect with you for

help or questions or find out more about what you're doing? Yeah the best way is to go on our website

kingmeanministries.com they can email me my email is going to be on that website you can reach out to me

we could I'd love to share our story see how we can partner see how we can come alongside these

men and really equip them to be one God meant when he decided to make man. And just to make it easier if

you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com if you go to this episode look

right below the episode description and I will have all of the links posted there for your convenience.

And Dennis as we close talk to that dad who's gone through a similar experience how do they heal?

First let me say this if this has happened to you or if this has happened to one of your children

it's not your fault I think God wants you to hear that I think that's the starting block of healing.

You didn't deserve this you didn't cause this what happened to you was pure evil and though you

may not see it God is a just God and he will one day put an end to all this evil and there will be

justice trust him he's not a reflection of your views. He is God and he will have the last word

and I share a quick story and I shared this with you prior to being on air when I was 10 years old

I was playing hide and seek and sat behind this this this lie like bush and this property marker

just the metal rod went right into my leg about two inches go to the doctor the doctor so's it up

a couple weeks later it's infected and my mom takes me back to the doctor the doctor says this is a

pretty big deal and he decides that he was going to lance it and he would require that my mom would

stick these long you know q tips into my leg the wound in my leg and it would allow it to heal

from the inside out and what happened as it healed and healed and healed the last bit my mom found

some fabric that was part of the pants that I was wearing and that was trapped inside me

and my leg couldn't function the way it was supposed to be because of this thing that was this

foreign object that was there and I look at that story of what happened and it's the exact same

thing that I feel God has done with me God brought me back into this wound not to leave me there

not to make fun of me not to make me feel less than he took me back into this so that he by his grace

and because he loves me because he's for me he wanted to heal this wound from the inside out

and and God wants to do the exact same thing with you he's looking for men that are going to trust him

to take us back into those those deep dark wounds and allow God even though it's a tough process

in a hard process he wants to heal us to the point where I've often said do you have a scam or do

you have a scar if you have a scab in your life things will poke at it and things it'll catch on

things and it'll rip back open or you have a scar that's just a reminder at one time you got hurt

and God wants to take that scab that wound that keeps opening and you keep bumping into it he wants

to heal it in such a way that all you're going to see for the rest of your life is the scar

the reminder that it happened but it's healed and it's a story and God has been good through that

and so that's really what I want other men to know this has happened to you there's help out there

and more importantly than that God is the one that's going to hold us straight healing and he wants

to do that because he loves you Dennis thanks again for being on the father of your challenge

that's been a pleasure thank you man God continue to bless all you're doing in his name

thank you for listening to this episode of the fatherhood challenge if you would like to contact us

listen to other episodes find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information

about the fatherhood challenge please visit the fatherhoodchallenge.com that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com

[ Rest ]

Have you ever wondered what the secret is to raising confident resilient kids who are achievers? How would you create a parenting plan to accomplish this? I have an expert here in this episode who has written a book on this topic and he will share some tips with us.

My guest is the author of 4 books including the one we are here to talk about: Four Lessons from My Three Sons, How You Can Raise Resilient Kids. Jeff Nelligan explains how his parenting techniques helped propel his sons to the U.S. Naval Academy, Williams College and West Point and beyond.

To get Jeff Nelligan's books, learn more or connect visit:

Web: https://www.nelliganbooks.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JeffNelliganBooks

Twitter: https://twitter.com/ResilientSons

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nelligan_books/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-nelligan-8277654/

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcript - A Dad's Guide to Raising Strong Kids

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Have you ever wondered what the secret is to raising confident resilient kids who are

achievers?

How would you create a parenting plan to accomplish this?

I have an expert here with me who has written a book on this topic and he will share some

tips with us in just a moment so don't go anywhere.

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere

to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers

are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone.

Thank you so much for joining me.

My guest is an author of four books, including the one that we're here to talk about, four

lessons from my three sons, how you can raise resilient kids.

This book explains how the author's parenting techniques helped to propel his sons into

the US Naval Academy, Williams College and West Point and beyond.

Jeff, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Hey Jonathan, it's a privilege to be with you, my friend.

I have to know what is your favorite dad joke?

My five year old kid is checking in at a lacrosse camp.

He's in a line with kids and he gets to the front.

They're getting the vital information for each kid.

The guy says, what's your address and then he says, when is your birthday?

And my kid looks at him and he says, every year.

That is awesome.

Thank you my man.

Well let's jump right into it.

There is a lot of information in your book.

I also know that you've had an amazing career with adventures that many could only dream

of.

How did this journey happen?

Well Jonathan, you know, every, every dad and they're all listening to this, you know,

they see the progression of their kids from the time three hours after they're born and

they're holding them all the way to two to four to six to sixteen.

And I was on that progression.

And when the last kid left for college, the last kid went to West Point and I dropped them

off at West Point and I had driven home and I was sitting outside in my backyard and my

first thought was, now what am I going to do?

Because here to four, I'd had all these days and weekends full of things to do with my

sons, athletic events, school events, just horse and around and suddenly there was nobody.

And so I'm sitting out there, I thought, well, you know, these guys have kind of performed,

you know, pretty well.

The eldest went to Williams College and then went to the Navy, Officer Canada School, middle

kid, had just finished at the Naval Academy and then this kid was up there at West Point

for a summer of getting beat down.

And I thought, now what can I, what are the lessons to be learned from this?

Literally the lessons and I thought, I have four lessons here on how these kids were raised

and I'm going to put them in book form and it's going to be short and hard and fast and

funny.

And that's how the book evolved and eventually, you know, was published and came out and it's

40 minutes, a 40 minute read, it's not some coffee table anchor, you know, 350 pages of gibberish.

But the genesis was, I've got these kids, they're all gone now.

What did I learn?

What did we learn?

As a dad, what are some of your biggest wins or successes with your kids?

And what are you the most proud of?

Oh, great question again, you know, all dads have that question at some point.

The biggest success is that today they're all satisfied and yesterday they were all satisfied

and when they were 14, they were satisfied.

These were kids who there wasn't a lot of anxiety or worry.

They undertook things pretty diligently and mostly succeeded and that's the long game

in parenting, you know, a kid that along the stage of his life is satisfied, is joyful,

you know, spiritually happy, accomplished.

So it's the success is having that kid who over that long game, that long period of time

is a pretty good, natured, confident, easygoing child.

And then of course, adolescent and then young man or young woman.

The kid has a sense of his place or her place in the world that there's just a rock solid

presence that they maintain, whether they're around their peers, their parents, strangers,

adults, whomever, and it goes to the confidence angle as well too.

That life seems to flow along for that kid in that, you know, very easygoing fashion and

that ups and downs and everyone hits a wall in life, all kids hit it, some kids hit it more

frequently than others.

But that whatever adversity or obstacle comes that they can get over it or get around

it and absorb it, I used to have, I had this drill sergeant when I was in the army, big,

just a tough guy, from whom I learned a ton about life.

And he would always say to us, wherever we were on our infantry training, he would say,

assess, adapt, advance.

And so we learned that.

It became part of a reflex action for all of us soldiers.

That's the mindset I tried to build in.

I worked on building into the kids so that they had that presence of mind that they could

meet any challenge.

And even if they got 90% down the field, 90 yard down the field, felt calm and confident

in addressing it.

There are two components to every man that makes a man stable.

One is knowing his identity and the other one is knowing his purpose and the identity is

broken up into two components.

One is a generational component, knowing who you are from a standpoint of where you come

from, like your dad, your grandfather, your great grandfather, what were their struggles?

Is there alcoholism in the family?

Generationally.

And is that what you're up against?

Knowing things like that, having information like that that is part of your identity.

Because if you know this information and you know it's potentially, it could be potentially

in front of you, maybe immediately in front of you or maybe at some point, you are prepared.

You can prepare yourself and do something about it before it becomes a problem.

The other side of you is your spiritual identity.

And that is a huge part of your makeup of what makes you who you are.

So that's why I found your point in the very beginning about knowing themselves spiritually

why that was so important.

Yes.

And I add to that Jonathan, one of your earlier podcasts, you made this great point and you

just made it again.

You were talking about a train and the generational identity and you're in the engine and the

rest of your generations behind you and those trains that are, that you're dragging along

with you.

That generational identity is so key because you do learn things intuitively and materially

from your fathers, your moms, your grandmothers, your grandfathers.

You know, I'm always perplexed today about hearing about kids who are, you know, stressed

out or who are uncertain and anxious, you know, my dad at 15 years of age was working in a

vanadium mine, a mile beneath the surface of the Sierra Nevada Mountains.

At 18, he participated in the invasion of Okinawa, one of the biggest battles of World War

2.

At 19, he was patrolling the streets of Tokyo as part of the occupation force.

He came home in 1946, having not seen his family in a year and had to take care of his parents

for four years and ultimately made it to Los Angeles and was the oldest member of his graduating

class at UCLA.

His father never made it past seventh grade.

So we're talking about strong, strong men here and my mom's experience was pretty much the

same.

There's a whole generation of people like that and my dad's story is hardly remarkable for

that fact.

But that's that train, that's in that car that's right behind me, what my dad did and my

mom did.

So knowing that, you know, you're able to kind of coalesce around the things that made them

strong and then you try to instill it in your kids.

This gets into something we're going to talk about a little bit later on in this conversation,

which is leaving a lasting legacy.

I think that's powerful, but you just dropped a really big hint to that.

So the next question can be a very uncomfortable one, but I would encourage dads listening to

answer this question for yourself and not to be scared of it because if you dive head

first into this next question, it will make you a stronger, powerful dad.

Now, question is, what are some of your biggest regrets or mistakes that you've made as a dad?

And what did you learn from them and how did they help you grow?

Certainly.

And you know, you got to acknowledge, you know, you got to good and bad.

I said it earlier, no one gets a free ride.

You know, I was never a perfect dad.

There's no such thing as a perfect dad, just like there's no such thing as a perfect

kid.

My biggest mistake, and maybe it's universal in fatherhood is that I thought that I knew

my kids pretty well, but there were times that I did not.

And in fact, in the book, four lessons from my three sons, there are at least five or six

examples self-deprecating of when I made a mistake with my kids.

And I was ashamed or humiliated.

And it was the kid that was set me right.

I mean, one of the stories is I was riding this kid, the eldest kid, to run for the student

body position at his school.

And I kept riding him and riding him.

And he's, you know, finally one night when I was still nagging him, he turns to me and he says,

"Dad, I know what I'm doing here."

And it was a shock.

And I said, "How?"

You know, you do.

Because you just came back at me pretty hard.

And that's the way it's got to be sometimes.

The dad's got to take that correction and the humiliation, I guess, that goes along with

it.

And say, "Wow, the kid is right.

I don't know at all."

And, you know, anyone who's vain enough to write a book about, you know, his parenting techniques

is also got to be strong enough to take the heat when he's wrong.

Were you a little bit proud of his answer, even a little bit?

No, not really at the time.

I just shut up.

I thought, "Well, you know, you're making a big mistake here because the kid was, you know,

good on his feet.

He's a popular kid at school.

He was an athlete.

He was, you know, a pretty sharp kid."

Now, I thought, "Man, you're blowing this opportunity."

But, you know, if you're, you know, any adults got to know when to say, "Hey, you know, I'm

in the wrong here."

And it probably an hour later, I was thinking, "Okay, you know, I got a back off on this because

the kid knows what he's doing."

And there's, like in the last sections of the book, I'm taking, you know, we're, where

we live in Washington, D.C. and in Bethesda, there are massive office buildings all over the

place in D.C.

You know, and then right across the river in Virginia throughout Montgomery County, where

we lived, you know, office park, sometimes just five or six stories, D.C., 13 stories all

over the place.

We've been in New York, et cetera.

And, you know, these big monster buildings and their full of steel and glass and they're

just absolutely soulless.

And I wanted to make a point to them and I said, "Hey, man, hey guys, you know, we're driving

around past all these office buildings.

Let me tell you about them."

I said, "And every one of them, there's a guy sitting in an office and on the wall, he's

got a picture of his family and on his desk, he's got a mug like you made me in second grade."

And he's staring at a computer screen because this guy sitting there was going to be, he was

going to be somebody, he was going to be a jet pilot or he was going to be in real estate,

he was going to own his own business, he was going to sail around the world.

He was, you know, going to fix cars and be a, you know, a star at that.

Instead, he's sitting there staring at a computer saying, "What the hell am I doing here?"

And I said, "Guys, you don't want to be like that guy because that guy's your dad."

And you have got to get farther than your old man did.

They were kind of shocked and I said, "Hey, it's the truth, man."

You know, you've got to get farther than that.

Staring at a screen, you know, sending emails, getting on Zoom calls, you know, all of that

jive, you have got to have the, the, the, the farthest landscape in a rise and you can possibly

dream of.

But I want to come back to that question that I was hinting at earlier.

Every dad I know wants to leave a positive legacy behind that will last for generations.

What is the secret to making that happen?

I think you've got to build kids, you know, just like the, the themes in the book.

I think, you know, the most important trait a kid can have is that confidence in being

in the real world.

And that let that confidence leads to accomplishments because a kid that can walk through the world and

and take the pain and achieve the successes, that becomes a habit.

It becomes a reflex for every aspect of their life.

And as they grow older, you know, the accomplishments, the achievements just grow in size and in

magnitude.

A kid can have a good lacrosse game in age six.

And then he's in college and he has the same kind of game.

And he says, I know where this started.

It started when I was six years old.

So that's, that's a legacy, even for a kid over the course of 15 years.

When I think what you're talking about is a dad who is holding that kid, you know, at three

hours and says, what is this kid going to be?

You know, a dad.

Yeah.

He holds that kid and then and that's part of the, that's the central theme of the book

really is holding that kid at three hours old and saying, I've got a strategy to make this

kid realize the potential that he has because I'm old fashioned.

Every kid has potential in one thing, maybe several.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's absolutely true.

Whenever I am my parenting journey, I'm always aware that the things that I'm teaching

them, regardless of what age they happen to be, those lessons are going to last and are

supposed to last long after I'm gone.

Oh, yeah.

You are programming genetics in the way you raise them.

So that is, there's multiple components to leaving a legacy.

But it just when you have that on your, on the front of your mind, it makes you very mindful

about the decisions that you make with your kids, what you're teaching them, the values,

the values you live yourself by your examples sometimes are the most powerful teacher to

your kids.

Correct.

Again, why is Jonathan, they are values are essential because they affect every aspect

of your life.

Now, let's really get to the pinpoint of your book and that is resiliency.

How do you teach your kids to be resilient in the face of failure?

That's where the strategy comes in.

They kind of bounces back to your earlier question, Jonathan, when you're talking about legacy

because in kids, you know, long, you, and you use the words long after you're gone.

Most kids and most parents don't know this, but by 12 and a half to 13 years of age, that

parent has spent the bulk of the time.

They're going to spend with their child in their life.

Because after that, the kid moves on and has many more actions with peers and, and strangers

and the institutions in which they find themselves.

So my, my shot at teaching resilience began really early and the best way to build resilience

is to put them in situations in that real world where after 13 years old, they're going

to spend the bulk of their life without you.

And if the, putting them in that real world, and I mean the, the world that's outside the

front door, you know, the, the school, the malls, the athletic fields, the hardware store,

you know, different kinds of places in the community in the neighborhood.

I gave them tests.

Probably the first one was we were in an indoor mall.

Eldest kid was seven, the youngest kid was about four and a half and I pulled out of my wallet,

three, five dollar bills and I said, hey guys, I gave five to each kid and I said, go get

the old man change.

This is not a race.

You can go wherever you want.

I'll keep an eye on you, but you got to get changed.

And I'll see you back here.

And so off they went, they were kind of, they were kind of fired up because it was a task.

It was kind of something exciting.

And you know, two, two of the kids struck out at the first place they went and then they

all came, one kid came back with 20 quarters and, but the idea was they had to go on their

own and mix it up with whoever stranger was at a cash register to get the change.

And we did this a lot in all different kinds of places.

And then of course the tasks began to accelerate and graduate into tougher instances.

Hey kid, you know, here's a $20 bill, go into that sketchy 7/11 over there and get me

gatorade and Doritos and donuts and bring them back to the car.

And then it is, we're at a restaurant and I point at one kid who's, you know, six years

old and I say, you memorize the old man.

The order we're going to, of what we want and you tell the waiter or the waitress everything

for all of us that are sitting here.

And then it's, here's my ATM card, go get the old man, $300, here's my passcode.

And then we're at an airport and I say, here's the material, go get us boarding passes.

So every challenge, you know, increased in kind of volume and intensity.

So that by the time these guys are eight or nine years old, they're fine in the real world.

They'll go off on their own and get what needs to be done.

But it also helps just in their regular interactions at school and after school, they have the confidence

to undertake anything.

And I think that's the beginning of building that resilience because they become accustomed

to doing things that no other kid at age seven is ever going to do.

Now let's talk about negative influences.

How did you teach your kids to avoid negative influences from their peers?

Oh, that's easy.

I completely, almost cut my kids off from social media.

I think the most negative influence in this country today and it's been, it's been documented

by much smarter people than me.

Dr. Jonathan Haye, the NYU and Dr. Jean Twenge at San Diego State University.

I mean, we reached a point where school systems are saying you can't bring phones to school

or the TikTok or that even Facebook admits, Zuckerberg, the social media avalanche has had

a negative effect on kids.

I sought early on because it was easy to see a kid looking at a screen becomes a zombie.

And the actual, you know, statistical evidence is so there.

An average kid today spends eight hours and 49 minutes a day on a screen, a cell phone or

an iPad.

And that's outside of school work.

And an average boy between ages of 10 and 18, if you took them all and took all the time they

spent on video games, Minecraft, Call of Duty, cod is around two hours and 14 minutes.

There's no reasonable person that can tell me that nine hours or two and a half hours looking

at a screen is healthy, particularly with, you know, the sewage is on the interweb.

So we, you know, the negative influences come all from the screen.

My kids didn't get phones until they were at the end of 11th grade.

And then I had a bet with them.

I said, look, whoever brings home a phone with the least power used gets a couple bucks every

day.

Oh, that's awesome.

There was no use of screens except for homework.

And they were limited to one hour a day, one hour a week with video games and we, they

could only be on weekends.

And of course, they weren't even around on weekends.

They were constantly out about doing stuff, mostly athletic stuff.

So the negative influences, I think, pretty much come from just that addiction, that zombification

of, you know, social media in general.

And my kids today, you know, they don't even have Facebook pages.

You know, I mean, they're just not on.

They don't, they don't have any of the apps or anything like that.

How can dads listening connect with you?

How can they get your book or find out more about what you're doing?

Certainly.

My website is www.nelliganbooks.com.

That has the books on it.

The one you, we've been speaking of four lessons from my three sons as well.

It has a book that I wrote a year and a half ago called Your Kids Rebound from Pandemic Lockdowns,

a parent guide to restoring their family.

I wrote this book after the, you know, during or after COVID and it is massively cited, 250

sides to medical, psychological, national survey data on what lockdowns, isolation, confinement

and no school did to kids and it provides a way forward for how parents can reverse that

damage and get the kid back that they, that they want.

And I will say the first chapter of it is the screens, you know, the glowing rectangle

that focuses on all what happened with kids on screens, the acceleration of use of them.

And then the fourth chapter gives parents an idea of how that can be rectified.

And my Twitter handle is @ResilientSons.

My Instagram is "Nelligan_Books" and my Facebook is Jeff Nelligan Books.

I'm going to make it easier to find all of the links that Jeff just mentioned.

So if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com, go to this

episode and look right below the episode description.

I'm going to have all of the links posted there for your convenience.

Jeff, we close.

What is your challenge to dad's listening now?

Get that phone out of that kid's hand and say, "Hey, we're going to sit down and we're

going to regulate what you see."

And if it means, you know, taking the phone away from you for days on end, so be it.

If it means cutting off the routers in the house, so be it.

If it means blocking massive numbers of sites from the home computers and your phone, that's

what it's going to be.

So that's a piece of practical advice.

The second thing is, and this is what I did with all three of my sons, beginning when

they're about five years old.

I'm still doing it today.

Every Saturday, I take a kid down to the most peaceful place on the planet and it is the

high school bleachers on a Saturday morning.

And we sit in those bleachers and I'd say, "Okay, what's going on, bro?

Tell me what's hot, what's not, what happened this week, what's your challenges, what have

been your successes."

And this became a routine, again, the reflex.

We would sit there and we'd have half an hour hour talk about just what's going on.

And then we'd go home and begin the weekend chores, the weekend games, everything else.

I started this all three kids.

They knew on a Saturday, if it was their Saturday, "Hey, you've got to talk to the old man

here for an hour about what's going on."

And it still goes on.

My kids were home, all three of them were together for the first time in five years on Christmas.

And the reason being, because of military deployments all over the world, always interrupted

everyone being home at once.

And where does the middle kid and I go on a Saturday morning?

We go right down to the high school bleachers, it's 35 degrees outside, it's freezing.

And we just talked for about 45 minutes about what's been going on since we saw each other

last.

And that's my second piece of advice, again, practical advice to meet, as you say, that

Fatherhood Challenge.

Dads get the book.

We really did not come close to covering, probably even a quarter of what's in the book.

So get the book and read it cover to cover.

And Jeff, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge and sharing all of this

wisdom with us.

Hey, my pleasure and privilege, Jonathan.

Thanks, man.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in

this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge, please visit

thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com

[MUSIC]

 As fathers, it is our responsibility to navigate the complexities of the modern world and safeguard our children from harmful spiritual influences. The rise of new age philosophies and practices can be enticing, but they often lead our children down a perilous path, veering them away from the truth and into dangerous spiritual territory. In this episode we empower fathers to protect their children from the demonic influences of new age ideas.

My guest is Dr. Roger Krickler. Dr Krickler is a retired engineer with 43 years of military and defense contractor experience. His expertise was in ground-to-air Soviet missile defense systems, electronic warfare, radar and training fighter pilots how to defend against soviet air defense systems. Upon coming home from his deployment to Egypt and meeting Jesus, he started going to church. There he had his first experience helping with casting out demons. His experience and expertise on both conventional and spiritual warfare are why I’ve brought Dr Krickler on the program.

You can find Dr. Krickler here:

Website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2276667

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556040728522

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3DRj7jSapwYHXNJAcAzPNN

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@RogerKrickler

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcript - Dads Demons and Bad Spirits

---

As fathers, it is our responsibility to navigate the complexities of the modern world and safeguard

our children from harmful spiritual influences. New age philosophies and practices can be enticing.

They often lead our children down a perilous path, veering them away from the truth and into

dangerous spiritual territory. In this episode, we empower fathers to protect their children

from demonic influences of new age ideas. I will be introducing an expert on spiritual warfare

in just a moment so don't go anywhere. Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken

and inspire fathers everywhere to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand

how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their families environment. Now here's

your host, Jonathan Guerrero. Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. My guest is Dr.

Roger Crickler. Dr. Crickler is a retired engineer with 43 years of military and defense contractor

experience. His expertise was in ground to air Soviet missile defense systems, electrical warfare,

radar and training fighter pilots, how to defend against Soviet air defense systems. Upon coming

home from his deployment to Egypt and meeting Jesus, he started going to church. There he had his

first experience with helping cast out demons. His experience and expertise on both conventional

and spiritual warfare are why I have brought Dr. Crickler on the program. Dr. Crickler, welcome to the

Fatherhood Challenge. Thank you, Jonathan. I think it's an opportunity for me to be with you today

and I sure do thank you for it. Please start by sharing your story of how you got involved in spiritual

warfare. Okay, I'd be glad to. It actually started in 1984. I took an assignment after a divorce in

1983 to Cairo, Egypt and I met a man John Wade. He was a Christian and we began a friendship and over

several months we talked about Jesus and he explained the good news story to me. And after a few months,

I turned my life over to the Lord. And as I read the New Testament and I tell you what an experience

for someone that just learning about Jesus and never really grew up in the church, it really brought

the Bible to life. As an engineer, I was always fascinated by how long a Sabbath day was for not growing

up in the church. That was something brand new to me and helping with casting out demons. That was an

experience. And I can tell you like it was a second ago that during the casting out of the demon,

it was a young girl. We bound her to a card table chair so she couldn't move around the room.

Not any constraints, but just spiritually binding her to the chair. And I tell you,

being brand new, I had two things going on in me at the same time. One, I was fully engaged and

you know, casting out the demons, but then a part of me was almost like an out-of-body experience

floating above me, looking down, going, is this really happening? You know, and then

instantly I went right back and engaged in the battle against the spirit of suicide and the spirit

of depression is what she had. But it was quite the experience for a technical guy that now is

you know, involved with the spiritual aspect of life. It was truly eye-opening and then after that,

I continued on with my study of spiritual warfare because God had called me into that,

even in Egypt, some of the prayer meetings or prayer sessions we had in the hotel rooms.

I just felt the calling way back then to get involved with this and it just happened to be my

training over my 43 years that God helped me with. That also complimented the spiritual warfare aspects

in trying to do what I do in my podcast, which is to try to take natural world experiences that

you can visualize, so you can try to get an idea of what's going on in the invisible war that we

can't see. And that's a little harder to fathom for some, so trying to make an association between

natural world and spiritual world is the goal of what I try to do in my teachings. The reason

that it's so important is because as we all know, we're made in God's image and God is a spirit and so

our actual beings have a spiritual component. Whether we wanted to or not, we have that spiritual

component. So we live in two worlds. We live in the natural world like you were saying, physical,

we can see it, taste it, all of our five senses, but we also live in the spiritual world. And that's

the harder part for people too, I think, understand and comprehend, but it's a part of something that we

had no control over. We were born, had no control over that, born in center, no control over that.

We were born into a war that started back in the Garden of Eden, right, with Adam and Eve and

Satan. That war has been going on and we were born into it and we had no control over it.

And so now we either have to learn how to fight or just continually get beat up. And so that's why

again, I'm so passionate about trying to teach people that there is a war that we do have weapons,

we can fight back. It's just a matter of learning how, just like when I went in the military,

I had to learn my weapons and when to use them, what kind of battle conditions to use what weapon

and the same in the spiritual warfare. We have a lot of weapons like binding and loosening and prayer

fasting, different weapons for different battle situations. And so my purpose is to try to teach

when to use what, basically, like I was taught when I was in the military.

So dads might definitely be able to relate to this one. So there's a term that's called,

the term is called strongholds. And strongholds, if I have to just shoot from the hip of association,

I would associate that with a home defense system. Does this also apply to spiritual warfare?

What would a spiritual stronghold be? And why would you why should dads be aware of them?

Well, I'm glad you said that because I happen to be on the safety team at church. So I'm involved

with weapons and have been all my life in my military career. So, but strongholds in a,

in the in spiritual warfare context is a belief that you hold on to so strong that no matter who comes

at you with a different belief, a belief system that you are not going to relinquish your belief in

that system, no matter how sound or logical it might be and it makes all kinds of sense in its rational

because you feel so strongly about a particular belief that you're just not going to give it up. And so

that's why it's so important when we start building our belief system as children,

there's a thing that I learned a long time ago about values, assumptions, beliefs, and expectations

that builds a child's reality map. So it starts at very young age. It's everything that they hear,

they teach, you know, they see, touch, smell, it all goes into the mind and it starts building a reality

map which also has a belief system. And so from there, a dad really needs to get involved very early

with what's being shown to taught and so forth to a child so that these, I come,

babes values, assumption, beliefs and expectations that they have some control over what is being taught

and shown to their kids because as these things grow over the years, if they're the wrong babes,

it is harder and harder to try to change that child's mind.

So what is the connection between, I think these might also be strong holes as well, but what is the

connection between meditation, yoga, video game characters like Enderman and Minecraft and also

the Ouija board? Why should dads be aware of these? Because these are games or exercises that people

think they're doing for the greater good on releasing relieving stress or video game, maybe it's

keeping your child entertained while you're doing something else, it all is going into the mind

where I said the battlefield is, like in a child's video games, they're drawn into a virtual world,

a virtual reality, right? These things that you can put on your face and get into a 3D virtual world,

they are a direct input into the mind. And if it's like a violent game, then violence is the thing

that's being entered into the mind. And so what a young mind can do is start to get the idea

that violence is okay, right? They can maybe identify with one of the characters in the video,

and we'll get into that maybe in a little bit, it's called, um, transference of spirits where

you try to emulate somebody that you admire. But the mind is where the battlefield is, and

with yoga, weegee boards, these are asking you as part of the game and part of the exercise to

open your mind, release your thoughts, you know, become empty. And when you do that, it's like opening

the gate for anything to come in. And if you're not as aware that evil thoughts and so forth can

enter through that, you're just opening it yourself up to attack. So it really sounds like there is

no such thing as a mind that just remains empty. And I know meditation a lot of times becomes all about

just emptying the mind, keeping the mind empty. But there really is no such thing. What is happening is

you're being asked to remove everything out of your mind so that something else can move in.

It never stays empty, which means, um, and you mentioned our mind is is the battlefield.

We were always meant and designed to live in this physical world and exist in this physical world

constantly with some sort of a spiritual connection that is conscious within our mind. And we get

a choice of what that is. Exactly. Um, to your point, I mean, when you, when you make a void, and

especially in the in the mind and in the spiritual world, when you create a void, then something's

going to fill it. And what you hope to do is fill it with something good and not something bad.

What should dads do if they suspect that their kids have opened a door to Satan or any demonic

influence, like weird things that are going on or, um, strange interactions? What should a dad do if

they think that's happening? That's a great question because it's kind of a two part, right? Because

there's believers and then there's non-believers. But so for the believer that are familiar with

spiritual warfare weapons, the first thing is to bind the strong man like we kind of alluded to before.

Um, saying something like in the name of Jesus, I bind Satan and influencing demons and those

that are misguided by evil spirits and thoughts from my son or daughter. So when you say that,

you're immediately saying in the name of Jesus, which is the power, and then you want to loosen

um, and post the angels around the child, which is filling that void. When you tell Satan to leave,

you've got to fill that void immediately. Otherwise, like in the Bible, it talks about the legions

of demons that came back and we are many. You know, you can cast them out, but if you don't fill up

the void, they can come back with even more. And now the problem is he can gotten worse, right?

So the power of binding and loosening is very important and setting down with your child and talking

to them about, you know, what they're doing and how they can be influenced and maybe trying to

substitute something that they're doing with something else that's actually more beneficial.

It might be a way, I think each dad has to, you know, obviously know his child and how to

pull something out and put something in its place. But I think the idea is that

you want to avoid meeting resistance so you don't yank something away with their saying,

no, give it back to me. You know, you try to replace it with something that's more beneficial.

So another thing that really to watch out for in this is a change of attitude and behavior in

the child and video games and opening up your mind and so forth. Dad's need to understand this and

I'll give you a great example of this. And so there was a youngest son was raised up to be part of

a closely knit family with good communication. He respected the parents rules and attended church

together. Suddenly he does not want to be with the family or attend church. He becomes sullen with

drawn rebellious. He defies your instructions and stays out late. You cannot understand the sudden

change. And then you try to wonder why because you have an older son, you gave them the same love

and they didn't rebel or do anything but yet this one is. So then you look at and say, well,

what's different? So what you might find most of the time is that if you examine the problem with

your son is that you will find that the change came about after someone else came into his life who

he respected it and admired. And this is what I was alluding to about in a video game. They see

a character in the video game and they say, oh, I want to be like that video game guy.

So but you can begin to respect and admire somebody else in your school or wherever it may be and they

begin to associate closely with that person. And then the new friend starts influencing the young

child by telling them what they do and how they think what their parents let them get away with

and so forth. And now the child wants to be more like the new friend and becomes rebellious to

the parent and that is a classic classic classic Satan tactic to attack children and it's called

the transference of spirits. So what I mean about transfer means to convey from one person to the other.

The word spirit is not used like a demon like you think evil spirits and you know that type of

thing. It's actually where spirits used here is a character or an attitude or a motive behind

an action. So that's what these new friends do. They try to sway the child to their way of thinking

which is usually down the wrong road and it's a way that Satan can attack because again the battlefields

in the mind and that's a classic way that Satan attacks young kids and really adults too. We've

been talking about Satan. We've been talking about demons and evil spirits. So let's let's talk about

the other side. Tell me about the Holy Spirit. What is his role in helping dads maintain spiritually

safe homes and how what can dads do to connect with the Holy Spirit? First of all the Holy Spirit is

part of the Trinity. There's the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. And that the Holy Spirit, when I look

at the three functions of God, there's the Father, I look at Him as the planner. He plans things.

Jesus is the implementer. He puts things into effect and the Holy Spirit is the administrator. He's

making sure everything's getting done. He's making sure tasks get done and so forth. So

the Holy Spirit is the God that lives within you after you become a believer. You have to

have faith in Jesus. Believe they died paid for your sins and that he rose on the third day

and that you become a believer because at that point is when the Holy Spirit can come and live

within you because Jesus actually had to die on the cross and leave as part of God's plan to redeem

us. The Holy Spirit, He sent to be with us, to guide us, to teach us and to make

the words in the Bible mean something to us. He enlightens us with the words and the parables and

the different stories in the Bible because when you read them on the face of you, sometimes

times are confused, but the Holy Spirit over time, it's not like learning from a fire hose

but over time, He teaches you more and more about what God's words are. And for dads,

that's the first thing you have to do is get the Holy Spirit in you by converting and

becoming a believer because that's how you get the Holy Spirit and He is your power. Remember,

Jesus is the authority and the Holy Spirit is the power behind the weapons that you're going to

use not only in your own life but to intercede for your child, for your other family members,

for members of your church or whoever. We have the prayer of intercession which Jesus did a lot

in the Bible. So the Holy Spirit is a real entity. It's part of God. He lives in us and we need to turn

to God and have the Holy Spirit live within us. You mentioned enlightenment. Enlightenment is a

very popular reason behind why a lot of people get caught up in new age ideas and why they seek them

out. They're trying to find some sort of enlightenment. This also becomes a goal behind yoga and so many

other practices like that. But what's fascinating is you need all of these different things in the new

age idea and the new age philosophy to try to find enlightenment. There's all of these different paths.

There's all of these deities to enlightenment versus the Holy Spirit. And if you want enlightenment,

he is the source and there is no end with him. If you're a believer and know how to fight Satan,

then you have the Holy Spirit living in you and then you engage and keep battling Satan. Satan is

going to attack you 24/7. And if you don't know how to fight, then learn how to fight and battle back

because that's what God wants for us. He wants us to have a better life and he's giving us these tools.

We just have to learn how to use them, pick them up and use them. Otherwise, we can be drawn easily

because we do have the sinful nature in us to be drawn to some of these things like

yoga and video games and Ouija boards that seem on the surface. Come on, it's just a game. I can

it's no harm there. But you peel back that onion and you find out that no, it is or harmful and

you just have to be aware of that. And that's the whole idea of behind spiritual warfare and

learning about it. Yoga, for example, really masks and disguises itself as being a health benefit

and a lot of people, I mean, you can it's not hard to find people who report benefits from actually

doing yoga. But behind a lot of the poses, the poses are very, very intentional and they mimic,

they mimic and they're patterned after deities. And if you really delve into those deities,

the deities that you see and there's paintings of them, there's drawings of them everywhere and

there's actually even statues that have been created and carved the images of these deities and

these poses, which is where the poses come from. These deities actually have a source. The deities

are actually patterned after demons. After the image of actual demons, this is what's behind yoga.

And so you were just innocently in it for exercise and yeah, it can seem, it can seem very, very innocent.

But you can get the exact same benefit from that you get from yoga, you can actually get the

exact same benefit by doing exercise other ways, other ways that people have been doing for centuries.

I want to talk about spirit guides. Spirit guides are also fundamental to new age belief systems

and spiritual, spiritualism. Spirit guides, what they really are are demons.

You're communicating with spirit guides, you need to stop immediately what you're doing because

you are definitely absolutely communicating with demons. That's what you're doing. I'm just being

very blunt about it. So if that's what you're doing, you need to stop. You only need one spirit guide.

There's one true spirit guide and he's the Holy Spirit. He is all you need.

And so coming back to you, Dad, some talking to you, Dads, if you struggle with your role,

if you struggle with energy, if you're struggling with focus as a dad, if you're struggling

with work, life, balance, if you're struggling with how to parent your kids, if you have a teenager,

that you're struggling to connect with, if you're struggling with finances, any of these things,

it doesn't matter what it is, anxiety, talk, pray, talk to the Holy Spirit, talk to God, the Holy

Spirit is all you need. He is the ultimate spirit guide. He is the only, only spirit guide that you

will ever need. And he wants to be involved in every single aspect of your life. So let him in,

whatever you're struggling with, talk to him. And here's the cool thing. We just got through talking

about this actually before, before we did this episode. One of the cool things is if you don't know

what to say, if you're trying to pray, you're trying to talk to God or you're trying to say something

to the Holy Spirit and you don't really know what to do or what to say, there is a promise

that he is actually able to interpret what you were trying to say, what you want to say in your

mind, but you can't find the words for. He is so powerful that he can take those thoughts

and he can bring those thoughts all the way up to the Father and communicate them accurately

when you can't find the words. Dr. Kregler, how can dads get a hold of you with questions?

Listen to your podcast or find out what you're doing. Well, I just started my podcast about a month

and a half ago. So I'm on YouTube so you can search my name, Roger Crickler, K-R-I-C-K-L-E-R. I'm on

Spotify. Now these are videos because I do a video podcast on Spotify. It's Roger Crickler. And then

on my website on Buzzsprouts at Spirits, Weapons and Warfare, which is the name of my website.

And then I just recently started a Facebook page, Spirits, Weapons and Warfare. And on the Facebook page,

you can actually comment and write things and then we can direct message off of that if you want.

So those are some ways that you can reach out to me.

And just to make it easier if you go to thefatherheadchallenge.com, that's thefatherheadchallenge.com.

If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description. I'll have all of the links that Dr.

Crickler just mentioned. I'll have the links posted right below the description there for your convenience.

Dr. Crickler, before we go, we would like to say a prayer for both believers and non-believers who

are just looking for spiritual help and looking for guidance. They may be trapped. They may be looking for

answers, both for themselves, for their family, for their kids. And so I was wondering if you would

do the honors of closing us out with a prayer. Oh, thank you, Jonathan. I'd love to. So for the

believer, I pray that your warning efforts are successful, that you fight like your life depended

on it because it does know that the Holy Spirit lives in you and with him all things are possible.

You are a victor, not a victim in Jesus name. I pray, amen. And for my non-believers who are still made

in God's image for my lost brothers and sisters still trying to fill that void in your life with the

things of this world, which you'll never be satisfied. I pray you will turn towards the Lord.

What I can say is that this life is temporary so the things you strive for and desire now

are going to go away. You cannot want them bad enough to have them last forever. By the decisions

you make while you're on this side of death, you cannot, you can control where you will live forever.

It is my prayer that you will find the Lord and give your life and allegiance to Him.

You will never regret it. If you're ready now, you can repeat after me. You can whisper it or

shout it out, but it is as easy as ABC. First, admit you are a sinner. I am sorry for my sins and

turn away from sinning. Be believe that Jesus is God, Son, God, Son, and that He was sent here

to pay for your penalty for sin. See? Confess that by faith that Jesus Christ is my Savior and Lord.

So my primary purpose for you is not that you will be saved, although God's will is that no one should

perish. That's in 2nd Peter 3 9. Nor that your sins are forgiven because Jesus paid the price

on the cross. Rather, I pray for you, my lost brothers and sisters, that you should be free

from the demonic influences in your life so you can be saved. In Jesus name, I pray. Amen.

Dr. Krueger, thank you so much for that prayer and it's been an absolute honor to have you on

the Fatherhood Challenge. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you very much.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us,

listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information

about the Fatherhood Challenge. Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

Bye bye.