If you enjoy stories, you aren’t going to want to miss this one. You’re going to hear a woman’s story of how she found her identity and purpose through a crisis of faith fueled by trauma and grief. Andrea Brunswick is a Creative Life Strategist with a mission of helping women over 50 find their identity and purpose.

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Transcription - Andrea Finds Her Identity and Purpose

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If you enjoy stories, you aren't going to want to miss this one.

In just a moment, you're going to hear a woman's story of how she found her identity in purpose and life.

So don't go anywhere.

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire

fathers everywhere, to take great pride in their role,

and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability

and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me.

Andrea Brunswick joins me now and is ready to share her journey of finding her identity in purpose.

Andrea, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

We can miss Jonathan. Thank you.

Well, Andrea, I know there is a lot to your story of finding your identity in purpose, so

we won't waste a minute.

Yeah, there is a lot to unpack with my story.

A full story, really, of trauma.

The trauma from loss, grief, death,

and all of the madness and the insanity that it brings.

But I think I have a lot of trauma also because Jonathan,

for my majority of my life,

and I'm just turned 62, so a lot of life, a lot of living,

I was of the world.

I was of culture and of the world,

and the lanes that I played in were new thought, new age, law of attraction.

Not even understanding really that there was anything wrong with that.

Because when you don't know what you don't know, you just don't know, right?

Like God has always spoken to me since I'm a little girl.

I've been able to hear Him very clearly.

My roots are Judaism, and I've always felt a presence

very close to me. It's sometimes on my body, I could feel something.

Now knowing what I know, I believe that that was the Holy Spirit that was on me, right?

So I always felt that, and I always heard from God.

And for Jewish people, we would never think that we can't hear from our Father as Hashem,

right? Because it was always just us and him.

So in any case, at the beginning of 2021, I heard, I was coming out of my meditation,

which was my morning routine, and I heard him say to me, "Andrea, this is your year to unlearn."

And I was like, "Okay, unlearn." I don't really know what you're talking about, but whatever.

I'm like, "Yeah, take me where you want to take me." Well, he did.

It's so funny because I didn't even know I didn't see it coming.

So it was, you know, when the world went mad from 2020, as I, and I don't mean any offense to anybody,

because I do know people have lost loved ones. I don't mean any disrespect, but

and I'm Canadian. So Canada went mad and we weren't locked down the longest. So I was hearing

this buzz about this social app. I don't know if you know it, Clubhouse. So I gone on there because I

thought, "Geez, that's going to be really good for my business, which my business is. I'm a

creative life strategist for women." You know, meaning, "It's my new term for life coach." I thought,

"Well, this is really interesting, and I think I'm going to really like this." So I went on,

and it was like the beginning when I got on there, and I saw this room, and I thought, "Oh,

it sounds really interesting, because I thought it was going to be a discussion about a book that I

had always loved." But I got in there, and the owner of the room does her little spiel,

introducing what her room is all about, and she says, "I'm a Christian business coach for brilliant

Christian female entrepreneurs." I thought, "Okay, whatever. I'm in the right place because I'm a female

entrepreneur." The whole Christianity thing doesn't mean one thing or another to me. I'm just

going to be here. Well, it was about that first week where I realized, oh my goodness, how intentional

was a Hashem. My father, I felt like I did when I went to kindergarten, and my mom walked me to

school that day, and then she got me to introduce me to my teacher. That's how I felt like my father

brought me here, and he's placed me, and I knew I needed to stay. I didn't know why. I had no clue.

Make a long story short. Not set me on a path because I was so in awe of these women who,

and only for this sole purpose, the room basically was filled with black Christian women.

And from my whole journey now, I see how the black church is often very different from the

non-black church. And I was like, I was blown away because they did, first of all, the owner of the room

always used a scripture to create an activation, and the majority of them were from the Old Testament.

I thought, well, this is very interesting. This is really weird because why do these women know

the Old Testament better than I had ever heard of Rabbi say it? Or, you know, I grew up in a primarily

Jewish area. So growing up, the majority of my world was other Jews. So that set me on a course

still, and with them fine. I started to do my research, and I went on to see what I call YouTube

University, which I love because we can't get educated. I mean, the internet isn't as bad as they

want us to believe, and social media isn't as bad as they want us to believe. There is a lot of good,

and it brought me a lot of good. So what it did for me was it broke things down like I started to

do some searching of messianic Jews, and their stories were like, my story. We're Jewish,

in a Jewish household, you don't bring up Jesus. Yeah, he was born a Jew, he was a prophet, but that was

where it ended. Okay? So I thought, well, this is very interesting. And then I'm still in this room,

and I became now really integral part of the room, and then I found this show that chose him,

because it was always something, really basically, I think my whole life, like probably by the time I

was like double digits, I was still being sent to Hebrew school on Sundays, but there was something about

not so much about being Jewish because I loved being Jewish, and I loved the traditions, and I

loved the holidays, and I loved the food, but there was something about it that did it sit right

with me. Well, along came the chosen, and the episodes with the Pharisees, and the Sadducees,

and it was like, oh yeah, that's it. This is exactly what I never felt. I always just felt like

stop saying that I can't, as an example, you know, Jewish people aren't allowed to eat pork because

it's an unclean food, it's not kosher. And if you do that, you're not going to get to heaven,

and not been sick right with me as a kid, or there was other things, and I thought, this is it,

it's that condemnation, it's that this law sets you up for disaster and destruction. So

a way I went, I just kept following where the Lord was taking me, and towards the end of 2021,

I think it was September, maybe in August, September of 2021, my very close friend who I'd been

friends with since college, just backing up a bit. I brought her to this room on Clubhouse, and my

friend had, was raised from a Catholic, and I used to refer to her as my very, about, devote Catholic

friend, and I introduced her to this room on Clubhouse when the Lord said, bring your friend here,

bring her in this room, and I did that. And she was like, where is my little Jewish friend bringing me

into this Christian room, like with all these really Christian women. So in any case, she was like,

she said, I think you're Messianic, and she would choke around, she'd go rabbi Eddie,

one, as I said, August or September of 2021, she said, "Andre, do you want to give your life to Christ?"

And everything made sense. And I said, yes, I do. So the one thing I think about having been in

the lanes of new age and new thought, law of attraction, doing Buddhism, doing, you know,

Hindu chants, it was about the supernatural, the supernatural about the Lord was what I only knew

for him to be, the supernatural power who could, you know, part the dead see, who could kill Goliath with,

you know, with David, right? Because it wasn't David. It was the supernatural power of a Hashem.

You know, I'm telling you, the Lord works in the most mysterious ways. So I have a friend who

were kind of, they were related through, through an uncle of hers who married a cousin of my mons

and we grew up in the same area, like we grew up in one area where we were both born and then our

parents moved to another area where we stayed and we grew up. So I've known this woman my whole life.

And just before the pandemic, she was talking to me about Christ and things. Now her mother had converted

to Judaism. But Christ has always been this interest for her. So we're on this path together and we're

talking about it. I actually had her do this in her spare, but it was because of her and a connection

that she made at her church, at her gym. And she just started talking about the Lord. This woman

talked about a church that she belongs to because both of us had wanted to get baptized, right? So we

started going to this church together. And I mean, how awesome is that? That somebody that you've grown

up literally with your whole life, we got baptized in the same day together. We had an experience,

Jonathan. What an it's funny because leading up to the baptism, I don't know, my, was like,

my stomach was giving me issues and, you know, it started to have like things and like headaches and,

you know, that enemy did not want me getting water baptized, but I just said get out of my way.

And he was doing the same thing to my friend. But oh, wow. And it's been remarkable. Like, the, the thing is,

is that the day of the baptism was all my daughters 27th birthday. And there's been some issues

between myself and my children in the last couple of years. So I thought, wow, how significant is this

that I am water baptized on my daughters 27th birthday? This has been something that I have been

desiring. I'm over the moon, Jonathan, over the moon. So when all of this was taking place, I was

sensing and hearing that the purpose that the father wants me, obviously, I'm still a mindset coach.

And I work with him, but now I no longer use modalities of the world in my, my coaching practice.

Now it's about biblical principles. Now what's about really leading women to understand that there

is an enemy because a lot of us, I didn't even know about it. I mean, I had no clue. I was who,

Disney in my brain. And because I would plan the different spiritual realms, I can't even believe

that I, but see in Judaism, they don't talk about how really and in Judaism, they don't really talk

about the enemy, right? So I lived my whole life, not knowing, but man, oh, man, oh, man, when I found out

that there's a centimede, that knowledge is power and Hosea 46 spoke so loudly to me. And I needed to be

able to just very humbly accept my, my own ignorance because it was my ignorance that was causing my life

to perish. But you see what I said when you don't know what you don't know, you just don't know.

But once you know, there's an obligation to do better. I sense as I was saying that the Lord is using

me as a bridge. He's using me as a bridge for others who are very much of the world, for other women

who, where their lives are blowing up, where relationships are being really super destructive and they just

can't seem to understand why this destruction is happening in their personal and in their

professional life. And in all of those intimate relationships, whether it be with their spouse,

whether it be with their children, their siblings, their parents. So he really wants that. And I do

think also Jonathan, I don't know how I, well, I don't need to know how because he's going to take me

and he's going to place me. But also for my own people and leading them to really what the truth is

because I think he's really had enough of us and our disobedience, just saying.

You referred to God as Hashem. Yes. The Old Testament Hebrew name for God. So I wanted to

just kind of clarify that, bring that out for those that are like, who's this Hashem that she's

talking about. So thank you. Thank you. Yes. So let's talk about how Hashem became your heavenly father.

Well, see, here's the thing, Hashem again, because when the Jewish roots are always really,

because we only know about the father Hashem. But where it's different now, I used to say,

before I gave my life to Christ and before really accepting Christ and everything making sense to

me about Christ, I was one of those that would say, you know, it's God in my own definition and

understanding. It's my own personal relationship. And that very much was true in reference to

my Jewish roots because I didn't believe that I had to do all of this stuff in order to be accepted

or in order to get into heaven. Okay, that being said, that was I think on a more shallow surface,

superficial kind of level. But now, Johnathan, now that my heavenly father, so grateful, so grateful

to Yeshua Christ, Jesus, that He went to the cross, that He had rescued me, that my father loved

me so much, because now we know when I trace back, I have a really good memory, Johnathan, like I can

remember back the time, like when I was two. And maybe I could remember things even before that. But

as I said earlier, I've just always known that there was this presence around me. So my father and

Jesus and the Holy Spirit were always always with me. Now, of course, there were times in my grief and

my depression and my anxiety. I didn't necessarily always feel that, but see now, because I didn't know

my the word. I didn't know the Bible. I didn't know it. I didn't care to know it, but now

now we can't get it off. Now, He quenches my thirst and He feeds me and He filled me with the Holy

Spirit, like I'm never alone. He's giving me the Holy Ghost and He's filled me with the dynamist

resurrection power and He's placed this authority that I have inside of me. And what He did for me,

I can't begin to tell you the way He freed me. And I'm sure I truly believe, and I truly hope for

every believer that they feel this freedom, that those chains and those shackles have been taken

off of us. And this authority, because that is a game changer for me, knowing that I have the mind

of Christ. And if I identify with that, and if I stay in that and not let my flesh lead me,

because new age and new thought, personal development, psychology, sociology, it's all about your

flesh. And that's the destruction. You refer to someone named Yeshua. I want to clarify who that is,

because people may, well, that sounds a little bit like Jesus is that the same person?

And so, yeah, I wanted to clarify that. It's the Hebrew, the Hebrew name for Jesus.

Yes. So talk about that moment when, or moments when you finally understood it and when you realize

that Yeshua is God and the link between this promised Messiah that would come that was mentioned in

the Old Testament and the Tanakh scriptures, even Torah. Yeah. And the link between that and the New

Testament, where when did you figure that out and how did you figure out that Yeshua is the Messiah?

How much? It started at that beginning walk for me on YouTube University when I was listening to

these Messianics. Not just I was listening to Messianic rabbis and I was listening to other Messianic

Jews sharing their story. And because, as I said earlier, because I had stayed so much in, you know,

Buddhism and New Age and love, it's all based on supernatural. So in my head, as I, you know,

like concluding my findings, because it was like I was doing research, right? It was like, well, yes.

That of course, this makes sense that the Father, with where we were in humanity at the time,

and where His chosen people were. I mean, He chose us for a reason and a purpose.

Then He wanted to set us apart from the other cultures that were in the world and the other nations.

It was like, but of course, He needed. We needed that. We needed to stop listening. Listen, I love

rabbis. Please don't get me wrong when I say this. My niece is a canter. I love the synagogue. I love

the Jewish teachings, but there's something, when you place everything in the authority of man,

there's something very wrong with that. And I think that that's what was taking place. At that time,

He needed to come here on earth in a fleshly form. What's the scripture? I'm going to, I don't want

to ruin it, but, you know, the word was the word and then the word became flesh. And He needed His

word to become flesh so that we could, in a tangible way, because, you know, humans, we need to see

something before we believe it. We can't, you know, walk on faith. We walk on sight, right? And He needed

to show that. And honestly, Jonathan, I feel if I would have been born in that time in history,

because it was called the way back then, I would have been a follower of Yeshua, ha Messiach, Christ, Jesus.

I would have been walking. I don't know if he would have chosen me to be one of his disciples,

maybe not. And that would have been okay. But he would have sat at my table. And I would have just

like Mary and Martha and he would have been coming to my house and he had made so much sense to me.

Now, I'm not the very best at explaining it to others yet. And I think what I need to do is to let

that go and just to allow the Holy Ghost to just to move through me and the explanation when I am

explaining it, say, to a fellow Jew who really is like, yeah, no, there's not such thing as the

Trinity. No, of course, there's a thing as the Trinity. And it's all in the New Testament. I mean,

in the Old Testament and in the Tanakh, it's talked about the Spirit of the Lord. It's talked

about us, we, however it is that they reference it. There's actually a couple in in the Psalms written

by the prophet David. He references Ha Messiach and speaks of Yeshua. And the other one is Isaiah 53.

Isaiah 53 is pretty specific. And then when you read the accounts in John and some of the other

gospels like Matthew and Matthew, Mark and Luke, they validate, they cross validate Isaiah 53. And then

you have another link in the first half of the first chapter of John speaks about the beginning

of Genesis. Exactly. That was mind blowing. David knew about him. Abraham knew about him. Job knew

about him. Isaiah knew about him. And yet now in this time, there are those that are still looking

for someone else. Isn't it funny? Isn't it funny that they'll accept Buddhist principles.

They'll accept all of these other principles as real. Okay? Yeah.

Muhammad, Israel, as this, as real. But for some reason, I don't know if it's the magnitude of Christ.

If I would have brought up Jesus as because I was so ignorant, I remember many years ago,

and it must have before even had children. So it's going to be maybe let's say 35 plus years ago.

There was in a strip plaza not far from my lived, juice for Jesus. I was like, juice for Jesus.

I was one of those ignorant ones. What led you into the path of spiritualism and new age thought?

And what was the moment where the Holy Spirit delivered you out of that and revealed the truth?

I was raised, lived in the world, my family, really basically, or of artists.

Okay. We were born Jews. So very secular. And I was born in the sixties, raised in the seventies,

and walked it up in the eighties. And somewhere in the eighties, I went into selling life insurance,

which introduced me. He's passed on now, but a man named Bob Proctor, who, if anybody had seen that

movie, the secret, he was one of the lead people of that movie. So he has a fellow Trontonian, like myself.

But insurance companies used to use him his termless acceleration coach for their sales teams to work on

the whole limiting thoughts and beliefs and just back up a bit. So when I was a little kid, I always

wanted to be like, happy. I wanted to join the Peace Corps. See where that's going. All right. That's

all of the world. Yeah. But I guess in Christianity, it would have meant I wanted to be a missionary.

Secular. It's the Peace Corps. So I'm hearing these concepts and they just made so much sense to me.

Like, but of course your thoughts are going to lead to the results. But of course my emotions and my

thoughts are going to be connected to what results. And I just kept diving deeper. And

because the super natural, like at one point I was even going to start looking into the Khabala,

the mysticism of Judaism. I guess I didn't because I think it's very demonic, but that's for a whole other

topic a whole other day. But you see, trauma started in my life. When I was 22, I lost my dad. He was

sick for four years. That trauma and that grief was having me because I've always been curious.

I've always been a seeker. I believe I kept was wanting to I was wanting to find God in a way

outside of how he was taught to me through the temple, through the rabbis, through Hebrew school.

I wanted him. I was wanting I felt like I needed him to hold me in that desperation and in that

pain through grief. And because I had other traumas and loss, I kept diving more and more into these

other principles, thinking that that was going to lead me to the final destination of God.

I believe that that's why in the beginning of 2021, coming out of my meditation and hearing a

shem say, this is your year, Andrea, to unlearn. I used to think I was this really bad manifestor,

because I'd had things on my vision board and it wasn't happening. So I thought there had to be

something wrong with me. Oh my God, my vibration must be off or I'm not aligning properly to my desires.

No, the father let me go so far and then he was like, yeah, it's okay. You've gone far enough

and now it's time. And I instantly, as I said, I started to do a little bit of my research just

needing to understand. So my friend was very helpful. She said, and you really have to understand your

Jewish roots. I'm like, please, like, like enough already. But when I started to hear the same story

from my people regarding what it was like in their home, if they talked about Jesus, that made sense.

And because I used to, I would used to call it my energy centers when I go into meditation,

because I'd set an intention like, love, I knew God was love. I want to vibrate it at that frequency.

And those ways centers would be like, it would be like electrical currents on fire in my body.

So I knew something. So now when I found out I didn't quite get the Holy Ghost situation, that

took me a bit of time. Like, who's this Holy Ghost? Like, oh, I'm only this person.

Like, well, I'm not, but I just allowed myself to be. I really just, I was so willing with zero resistance

and just allowed it because I made a promise. When I heard those words that this is your year-to-end

learn, I promised God, I will unlearn whatever it is you want me to unlearn. And as much time and as

much focus as I ever gave to those other principles that you're wanting to remove from me, I will

10 exit, 20 exit for the amount whatever it is that you're wanting me to learn. And that truly is

what I've been doing. Hence, I'm here today on a Christian radio channel talking about Christ.

Would you offer a prayer for dads or sons or daughters who are listening now who are on their own

journey or their own struggle trying to find their identity in purpose? Heavenly Father, Holy Spirit,

Lord Jesus, we come together today, Jonathan and myself as I'm here as you've blessed me

to be able to share my testimony of you and the freedom in which I now walk in and the liberty

and the freedom that I feel surging through my blood, surging through my brain. I ask for this same

freedom, the same blessings that you've blessed upon me for anybody that's listening to this,

to feel that, to know you, to have a coming to Jesus moment. Get them the way you got me in your loving,

loving way because Father, you are so good and you are so loving. You allowed your son

to die in the most brutal, horrific way, Christ, which you did for us, which you've done for this world,

and you've placed the Holy Spirit in us. This is what I ask for you to bless the fathers

so that they can walk because men have a hard Father. You know that. And mothers and the women

and children in today, in Christ Jesus, mighty holy, majestic name, amen. Amen. Thank you so much

for that prayer, Andrea. Thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge. It's been a pleasure

having you. Thank you, Jonathan. Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program

or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge. Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's TheFotherhoodChallenge.com

[Music]

The previous episode was part 1 of my conversation with Rebekah Wen as she shared her testimony of finding identity and purpose. This episode is part 2 of Rebekah's story. She reveals not only how she found her identity and purpose but how you can find yours too.

Here are some helpful books from this episode:

The Bondage Breaker: https://www.amazon.com/Bondage-Breaker-Neil-T-Anderson/dp/0736918140?fbclid=IwY2xjawGsYkdleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHcPkI8FtEzjF-9riwx8WzK7QaKJ1bStRy1_-8uuQjC7bEikcDE2tIM4bTA_aem_Xgu6WbZSX9WSL9wGiLHqCQ

Your Spiritual Toolbox: https://www.amazon.com/Your-Spiritual-Toolbox-Sit-Down-Christian-ebook/dp/B01KW3LRWE

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

Transcription - From Torment to Identity and Purpose

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Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,

to take great pride in their role, and a challenge society to understand how important

fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero. Greetings everyone!

Thank you so much for joining me. We are continuing part two of my conversation with Rebecca

Wynn as she shares her testimony of how she found her identity in purpose. If you missed part one of

her story, you can go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com. And if you go to

the last episode, you'll see it label as part one, you can hear the first part of our testimony.

Now we're going to go ahead and continue with part two of her testimony.

So as I was sitting there, I just thought to myself, "God doesn't want broken people like me."

And I heard an audible voice say, "I came for the broken." And I felt these huge warm arms

wrap around me. And I felt the ground in this concrete basement and I cried. And I felt,

I felt a father holding me for the first time. And I knew that God was there with me. And that he

had come for me on that every single speck of my brokenness could be healed by him. And in that moment,

I decided that I had to become a Christian. I needed this comfort. I never felt anything like that

before. I was so excited. I wanted to tell everybody all about it. You know, I ran upstairs and I told

my mom, "Mom, guess what? I'm going to be a Christian now." And she was kind of like,

"Yeah, great." But she didn't have the reaction I expected. And I wish that I could say everything

after that just immediately got better, but it did not.

Somethings did. So I'd had, for those 13 years, as I mentioned at the very beginning,

I had been sexually and physically abused by a female relative almost immediately after I

became a Christian that the sexual abuse, the verbal abuse completely stopped. It was, for me,

a hugely eye-opening moment because I thought, "I understood for the first time that there's

something really wrong with me. And I need some kind of deliverance from this. I understood

the first time that these entities that were attacking me were demonic and that they had a purpose

when they were coming. But I had no idea how to deal with it. I didn't know what an event meant.

And I still hadn't told anybody about any of them. My, my mother remarried when I was seven.

And the man that she married was a very stable, good man who had a good job and took good care of us

and enabled her to be a stay at home mom so that she could homeschool us. And by all accounts,

he was a good, solid man. But he was not emotionally available. He was not interested in,

in really being a dad to other people's kids. And so I, he would work most of the time and then,

you know, maybe we'd have some kind of a philosophical conversation or something, but he wasn't

really interested in discussing God. He was much more interested in discussing science and mathematics

and philosophy. And yet there was, there was a moment that had a major impact on me.

There was one day where my mother was just tired of it, you know, and she was just,

she was test tired. And at the same time, also, as I mentioned, I have been having anorexia

and it had progressed to the point where, where I had, I would stop eating and I was noticeably

underweight for my age. My mother would, every single meal she would have to trick me into eating.

And she would do that because she knew that I had such a strong feeling of guilt about the idea

of making anything else feel as worthless as I felt because I felt I was trash. I didn't want

anything else to feel that way. I don't want to be the cause of anyone else or anything else

to feel that kind of suffering. And by this point, I was, I was hoarding. I mean, I had, I wouldn't

even throw away trash. I would have hundreds of candy wrappers and stuff around my room is stacked

up and everything, which I know sounds strange for anorexic, but whatever. But I would have, I wouldn't

throw away anything because I didn't want it to feel like trash, even if it was trash. I couldn't stand

the idea of acknowledging that something didn't have any more value. I had to prove it had value because

if it didn't have value, then maybe I don't have value. So I would cling to everything. And so my mother

figured that out and they, she had realized that my hoarding was because of this, because of this

deep feelings in me. And so she would get me to eat by guilt tripping me. So she would use this cute,

tiny little voice, you know, and she would, she would literally take one bite of like vegetables or

something and she would be like, Oh, please eat me. If you don't eat me, I'll be so sad. You know, she

would make it like this, this thing that I, if I didn't eat this food, I was making it, I was making

it miserable. I was, I was causing it the same harm that been caused to me on some level. And that

was the only way she could get me to really eat. And so she was doing this every single day and she was

tired. And one day she, she talked to my stepdad and he came over to me and and I'm just, he was just,

he sat down on the floor next to me and I was not even making eye contact. I'm just saying they're

doing my homework pretending, you know, to be the kind of daughter they wanted. And he was trying to

talk to me about it, about what was going on. And I just told him like, Look, I don't know why you're

talking to me. You don't love me. I just remember glancing overhead him because he didn't say anything.

And I glanced over at him and I saw that he was crying. And I felt such immense guilt, you know,

when you make your dad cry like that, such immense guilt. And all he said was, I'm so sorry, you feel

that way. And if that for me was a major turning point because I realized, I really realized that I should,

I want to be able to feel that human love and connection and to recognize it and to live in it,

like they think they do, like my family does. And I couldn't. So it was a major turning point for me.

So a few months after that, I'm a, I'm a baby Christian. I'm super excited. I'm still living my

goth life, you know, all black from head to toe. But even though I, I had gone through this and I was

still continuing to try to cling to my, to my faith and to grow as a little baby Christian, the spiritual

attacks that I was undergoing just became more and more intense and they became constant

anxiety to the point that I would create rituals that had to be completed throughout the day.

Or I had a real fear that my family was going to die. These rituals start off as something really

simple, like, oh, before, you know, before my parents leave the house, they absolutely had to give me

a hug and say goodbye because I was afraid that the last thing we would say before they died would

be something terrible. So we had to leave on good footing, right? It had to be a hug and we had to say

specific phrases. And right before I went to bed, we had to have a hug and we had to say specific

phrases and it grew over time to the point where before I would go to bed, there would be like a five-minute

speech, a five-minute dialogue that my parents and I would have to say every single night perfectly.

If they'd messed up, if I messed up, we had to start over because I was so aptly sure that something

catastrophic would happen if we didn't do these rituals. And so they became more and more,

they became larger and more repetitive and more all-consuming as time went on. My sleeping habits and

everything, they just became more difficult because I, even though I was taking these precautions,

you know, with arranging of the bed and the room and the lights and everything, it wasn't helping at

all. And these entities were becoming more and more aggressive. And I was to a point where I could see

them all the time. So I could see, I mean, I could just be walking around outside and see them,

you know, hanging on somebody's shoulder or something. This idea of like, oh, if I look at a mirror,

the image, one more of it began to become, if I just look at your face, it's going to more. So I couldn't

even look at my own family without constantly seeing these things that would say and do whatever

they wanted. I, because I'm also still having these out-of-body experiences, they started to become

part of just every day thought for me where I could just be having a pleasant conversation like, oh,

yeah, I'd really love to have mac and cheese for dinner. And what I would be seeing as I'm saying

that would be myself holding a knife and cutting their throat and then bleeding everywhere. Like

horrible, horrible things that I had no actual desire to do, but I would be seeing these visions

all the time. And they became more and more graphic and more violent and more consistent.

And at the same time, these entities would come into my bed. So they would climb under the blankets with

me and they would just, they would start to hurt me. I would have cuts and bruises. And I got to a point

where I even started to disassociate from my own body. And I believe that's because I was having

so many of these out-of-body experiences. I started to disassociate from my own body and it began

with my right arm. I would start to, if I looked at it or thought about it, even just pondering

something else, but I would just kind of stare at my arm, my arm would begin to sort of become numb

and heavy. And I would have this knowledge that I was not in control of it. And it could move by

itself. And so I would see my arm move even though I wasn't telling it to. And I really started to become

afraid of it. And it got to the point where I really felt like it was going to spread and take over

my whole body. But before it could even do that, it started to cause me real physical harm, like trying

to strangle me and leave marks. It would leave marks on my neck because for these actions or scratch

marks across my whole chest and everything. And I wouldn't do this to myself. I'd never been a person

to nest their self-harm. But I just, I was so, so sure that they were gaining control of my body

as time went on. That I started to look into how I could have my arm surgically removed before it

would spread to the rest of me. So that leads me into being 16 years old. And my mother at this point

has noticed that these things are something is seriously wrong. And she has come across a book called

The Bondage Breaker. At that time, you know, every morning before we start our homeschool routine,

she's reading passages, a scripture, and praying with us. And she decides like,

enough Elizabeth Elliott, let's try this. And so she, I love Elizabeth Elliott, by the way, but she,

she sits down and she's like, okay, girls, I don't know if this is going to work. Like, I don't know what

you guys will think of this. It's kind of, we've never really talked about demons and stuff. But, you know,

let's just read it. Let's just read it and see what happens. The first day she read it, I remember

having some kind of a feeling that was just like, no, don't listen to what she say. Don't just

don't listen, don't listen. But I did pay attention. And this book is amazing because it actually gives

you specific prayers that you can say word for word. And this book, it is about spiritual warfare.

It is about fighting the enemy and the idea that you could, for me at that time, the idea that I

could have power and could, could stop what was happening to me was like, was beautiful. It was

incredible. And I just latched onto it. So I memorized one of the prayers from that book. That was the

first time I actually sat down. I told my mom, like, mom, I'm seeing things at night. Where, what does

it look say about that? And so I memorized a prayer. And I thought, okay, next time these things happen,

next time they come, I'm going to, I'm going to say it, right? So that night, I go to bed and I wake

up and at that day, it was some kind of like, there were like three of them. It was like a, I sort of

a black shadowy man. And then some kind of like an alligator thing that was like floating next to my bed.

And there was, I want to say almost a woman like trying to play with my hair. And I wouldn't,

I didn't want to look over at her because she had a really disturbing face. But so they came and I

remember, thanks to myself, okay, you, you got to fight, you have to fight. Like this is your chance.

Do it. And it was one of them physically most difficult things I've ever done in my life just to

open my mouth and speak. It was like my mouth was wired shut. I couldn't, I mean, I was just

clenching my teeth, just trying as hard as I could to get my mouth open and say the prayer as

best as I could remember. And I did. And you know what? They went away. They literally vanished. And I was

like, what this works? This can work. There was a solution this whole time. I was so excited.

The next morning, I was like, mom, you're not going to believe this. You're not going to believe

what happened. I need to tell all my friends, like I just dove into the book. I even brought friends

over and I was like, you need an exorcism too. And so I'm just diving right into it. And because for me,

it was incredible. What happened? I started praying this every time I had a vision every time they

came to me every time I even felt their presence before I could even see them. I would start praying.

And I had to pray it out loud. It didn't work if I prayed it in my head. I had to pray it out loud.

So I would start praying. And they would leave every single time they would leave. And the result was that

I completely, I mean, I regained control of my hands. I stopped having nightmares. I was able to

sleep on my back for the first time in almost a decade. Like I'd always slept on one side. And it couldn't

move. Now I could sleep in other positions. I could look in people's faces again. I couldn't even look

in like look in a mirror, you know? That took a really long time though. But I could do these normal

things like they were just gone. And the out of body experiences disappeared as well. I haven't had

any of those since that time. So here I am. I've been amazingly healed. I know 100% is through the

power of God. I know that it's through Jesus Christ. And through the identity that they have given me

as a daughter of the king. Because the way these prayers work is that you claim your identity.

I am a daughter of the Lord God Almighty. And you cannot touch me. You claim your identity. And you say

on the authority of my father, you cannot be here. There's nothing to do with my grace, my goodness,

nothing. It is all his power. And because it's all his power, they have to leave right away. And so

that gave me this idea that I needed to consider my identity was I really living like God's daughter.

Not my mother, my mother's daughter, not my father's daughter was a living like God's daughter. But with

my father, I mean, he actively encouraged me to dress in, you know, to dress as a slut, to wear tiny,

tiny outfits whenever we went out, you know? But the time I was in my teens, you know, he would, he

would use my debit card and his ID to go, to go buy alcohol for us. And every minute of time that I

spent with him was centered around playing, was centered around around D&D or witchcraft or,

or these kinds of other things, nothing was centered around right here, right now. Who are we? Our

relationship, this world, what's actually happening? Everything was just play and feel good. And so I had

this complete disconnect between these two people because my father did not want a good little Christian

girl. He was very happy to have a teenager who was open about her pornography addiction and loved

drinking alcohol and all this stuff. Whereas my mother, she needed a good little Christian girl.

So I had to reconcile this, these two different people that took a long time. But I was able to do it

because my foundation was no longer making my mom and dad happy. It was what is my God want? The

person who's saving me. And I think that's a core of of my life. If I could take this and make it a

message for any, any parents, protect your kids. If you see something that's strange, if they're

having a lot of nightmares, if you see them acting in a strange way, don't avoid conflict, don't

try to sweep it under the rug. Like after I was healed and I started opening up to family members

about what I had been through, the number one reaction I got was, oh, well, we knew there was

something wrong with you, but we didn't think we could say anything. It blows my mind because I was

a child. What was I going to do if you said something? I don't know, maybe rethink my life, you know,

where, where was the backlash? Where was the potential for them to have problems? But because nobody

spoke anything, I had no protection from any of the things that I went through. I had zero protection

in that way. So if I could say anything to, to parents is that protect your kids, not just from

these physical things, but be involved in the things like what they're scared of, the nightmares

and these things protect them from those. I had a significant healing, but I wasn't really truly

born again until a few years later. I never went to a church because I had such bad experiences with

other believers when I was young. And even though I was healed and everything, I was still 100%

of God, then I was very happy to maintain that image. It wasn't until I was an adult in about 21

years old, terrible situation happened and the family sort of exploded. And in that time, I ended up

homeless and it ended up by myself. And I only had God to cling to every single day, all day long, I would

just tell myself, God is love, God is mercy, God is love, God is mercy, God is love, God is mercy.

And that was how I got through that time. But because I clung to the Lord so much, I realized,

I literally just wanted to be sequestered. I wanted to become a nun. And my grandmother said,

why don't you try a missionary instead? And so I was learning Russian at the time. And so my

grandmother said, well, why don't you try and go to school? You know, there's this missionary

school in Russia. Why don't you go there and check it out? And so without thinking about it, I was like,

yeah, I'd love to be in Russian, everything and be closer to God. Sure, let's do it. So I signed up

and everything. And then when I'm on the plane, I had a realization that I was literally going to live

with other Christians. And I don't think hate would be too strong of a word. I hated being around

Christians because of my past experiences. And I also hated kids up to this point. And the reason

I hated kids was because I was still so dirty from all the things that had happened previously.

I still believed and lived in the enemy's lies that I was a creature of shame and that I was filthy.

And I did not want to get my problems. I didn't want it to spread to any kids. And so I just decided

that they were terrible. And I convinced myself to stay as far away from children as possible

because I did not want my filth to spread to them. So here I am on the plane on the way to Russia.

And I suddenly have this realization, I'm going to go in live with Christians. And I panicked.

I was like, I'm going to stay on this plane because Moscow is just a stopover. Then it's going to

Malaysia. I'm just going to get off on Malaysia and deal with everything then. Call everybody and

be like, hey, I'm here now. You know, I'm like, run away. And but then as we landed in Moscow, they said,

everybody has to get off and we're going to bring on the search dogs. Well, I was like, okay,

all right, I will get off. I don't want to deal with any dogs. So I get off and they pick me up.

We go to the house and we open the door. And what's the first thing I see is a baby. So now I'm

surrounded by Christians and babies. And then they lead me up to my bedroom. And what do I see?

My roommate, she's just, I just, hi, you know, she's just this preppy blonde hair, blue-eyed,

little valley girl. And I'm like, oh, Lord, why do you torment me? Why would you do this to me?

Every, this is going to be the worst mistake I've ever made in my life. What is happening?

And so I tell them, I tell everybody like, yes, I'm so tired. I just need to go to bed. So everybody leaves

except for my one German roommate. And she's sitting there and I'm laying down my bed and she says,

you know, I am so glad you are here because before you were not. And now we are complete. And my heart

completely broke. And the Lord spoke to me audibly. I brought you here to heal you. Let me do it. And I

said, okay, my heart is yours. This is the first time I've been wanted. Do your will. And what he did,

I would became truly born again in Russia a couple months later. We were going through a program

where every week we would have teachers teach us about a different topic. And that particular week,

we were learning about God as a father. I always, I'd always known about Jesus and, you know,

the great warrior and loving, you know, typical church things. But I'd never thought about God as an

actual father who actually loved me. And so during that week, the culmination of that week was for us to

to have a public confession where we would confess everything that had been done to us. We would name

names, list deeds, and we would confess everything that we had done. And throughout the whole week,

the Lord was telling me, this is your chance. You've got a lot to say. At the end of the week, that

morning, because this was a mixed group, there were adults and children. I went to the leader of the group

and I said, you know, I feel like I have something to say, but I feel like it's a really heavy topic. And

I don't know if it's appropriate to talk about in front of the kids. And up to this point, I literally,

I had not thought about what I would actually say. I didn't know. I just knew I had to say something,

but I didn't know what it was. And I had never thought about what came out of my mouth because she

asked me what you want to talk about. And I'd never thought these words or made this sentence

ever in my life. But I looked her dead in the eyes and I said, I was physically, emotionally,

and sexually abused for the first 13 years of my life. And that to me was like, I was? Where did that

come from? I never thought about it ever. And she said, bring it on. Let's do it. That day, I think I

was the third person to talk. I publicly confessed what was done to me and what I'd been done. It took

hours because I realized as I was going through names, I couldn't even remember all the names of the

people who had, quite sexually assaulted me. I could see faces and things, but I couldn't even remember

the names. And it took hours and of just sobbing and telling it. And here I'm sitting in front of a

room of 20, 30 people and they're all just listening in silence and asking me these patient questions

and praying the whole time. And by the time I finished, I can say that I had been completely,

completely washed clean. White as snow. Everything that had any power of shame over my life was in public

and it was forgiven. And I was completely free. And that afternoon, as they were making dinner and

I'm sitting there doing some homework in the living room. Some of the children of the households

are playing there. And for the first time in my life, without even thinking about it, even as a child,

I didn't play. I didn't play with other kids. I only spent time with adults as much as I could.

But for the first time in my life, I put down my pencil in my homework and I played with them.

And I can't express how beautiful that freedom was to finally be, to truly be free with nothing.

No shame, nothing held over me. If you ever have a chance to do a public confession, I have

fully encouraged it because that was what broke the final curses over my life and gave me

a stability in who I am. And that the Lord would patiently and carefully take me to a place

where he would dig out every piece of junk that had been put onto me so that I could be free.

So I could fly above everything. I think the last step in my completely being free was I realized that

when we went to that Mayan temple when I was a very young child, whatever clung to me came in

through an open door. In the deliverance ministry, I figured out exactly what entity it was. And I

could tell it to leave by name. And that was the moment when I really lost a lot of fear for it.

You're not so spooky if you got a name and I can just be like, hey, dude, go. Not that they're not

powerful, but that they're limited. They're limited. And that was something that I happened really

recently because for many years, these entities hadn't bothered me, but they'd started to come back

with my daughter, with my daughter. And she started to have nightmares and to say things that little

tiny toddlers should not say. And so I realized that I had to learn how to fight for her. I had to

learn how to fight as her legal guardian on a spiritual level. So that's why I went into,

went back into this and said, okay, what is it? What entity is clinging to me that could potentially

be affecting her or could still be clinging to me? And when we identified it and went through and

prayed it away as the saying goes, I'm happy to say that my daughter did stop having nightmares.

That is my story in a nutshell. So I would say to fathers, base your identity in the eternal

things. Build yourself onto that. And for your children, encourage them. Bring them along to do

the same, especially for young kids or teenagers, especially with this era of social media.

There are so many influences, so many things that seem so important and so amazing and so

life changing and so necessary. So for your children's sake, redirect their interests. Remove those

influences, redirect their interests and their concept of strength on the same thing the

rocket pages. If they can stay on that, they will stay with you. Rebecca, thank you so much for

coming on to Father and Challenge and sharing your testimony with us. Thank you again for having me.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us,

listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information

about the Fatherhood Challenge. Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

[��]

My guest in part 1 of this episode is Rebekah Wen. Rebekah will share her story and testimony of growing up disconnected from her identity and purpose, how she found it and how you can find yours too. This is one you’re not going to want to miss.

Part 2 of this story can be heard in the next episode.

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

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Transcription - From Torment to Identity and Purpose (part 1)

---

Today I have a guest who will share her story and testimony of how she found her identity

in purpose and how you can find yours too.

This is one you're not going to want to miss, so don't go anywhere.

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,

to take great pride in their role, and a challenge society to understand how important fathers

are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.

Rebecca Wynn is here with me to share her story of how she grew up disconnected from

her identity and life purpose and how she found it.

This is going to be a powerful story, so buckle up.

Rebecca, thank you so much for joining me on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Thank you so much for having me.

Rebecca, let's start from the very beginning.

What is your story of how you found your identity in purpose?

Well my story actually begins back before World War II in the early 1930s, even before

then, on my father's side of the family where Ashkenazi Jews, and so sometime in the early

like first 1000 years BC, my family was taken from Israel and brought up to Germany into

the modern day Rhine River, that area, at Suiustis lives, and over hundreds of years they

had built a community, and my family, they were the rabbi and the religious leaders in

the community.

In that time my family were, they were serving the Lord.

And there are records like obituaries that were written for my great-great-grandmother,

she passed away in 1933, and there are obituaries that were written by the German population

of the city where they lived.

And those obituaries paint her in a very loving way.

She was a powerful woman of prayer who was known for being loving and kind and nurturing

to absolutely anybody who came to her, which is, she had no problem reaching out to them

regardless of their faith.

And so this was an obituary that was written by the German population, not by the Jewish

population in that city.

The next account of my family is from the Crystal Night, and it's an account of my relatives

being dragged out into the streets and beaten as their house was burnt down.

The synagogue was burnt down, the cemetery was destroyed.

That was obviously Crystal Night, so a few years after that, by 1942, all of the people

in my family, my father's bloodline, who were 50 years old and younger, they had fled

Europe.

They left everyone who was 50 years old and older in Germany.

And the result was that all of the elderly people in my family were killed in camps.

And since that time in my father's bloodline, absolutely nobody has been a believer in

Christ or practicing Judaism.

He has been financially successful or physically healthy.

And I believe very strongly that their choice to abandon the elderly at that time brought

some kind of a curse on our family that we no longer protect, took some kind of protection

away from us on a generational curse level.

And that filtered down to me many years later.

So my parents divorced as an infant.

I was five months old when they had finalized their divorce.

The reason that they divorced is because there were a lot of reasons, but domestic violence

was the main one.

So I spent my first year of life growing up in a shelter for battered women with my mother

and siblings.

So from a very early age, my mother was very religious.

She was a believer.

She clung to the Lord through all of these situations, but my father was a hardened atheist.

And so I grew up seeing these polar opposite identities, these polar opposite worldviews.

And my mother was a Republican.

My father was a liberal.

I was just like, they had nothing in common.

So I grew up, I learned very quickly that I had to be a different person when I was with

my mother versus when I was with my father.

So with my father, I grew up hearing Bible stories, listening to adventures in honesty,

praying before we go to bed, before we eat all these kinds of things with my father.

If he saw us praying, he would beat us.

If we had anything Christian, the Bible or anything that we brought to his house, he

would destroy it.

And at his house, we were surrounded with new age things, with witchcraft, with a lot of things

that were even, a lot of D and D and things that were basically soft core pornography.

When you get into those like artwork and everything, that's out of the world, a lot of anime

and things like this.

And then as we got older, that progressed into things like more explicit things like Austin

Powers and those movies he thought they were the best means ever.

I remember watching them when I was knee high to a grasshopper.

For me, this divide created a feeling of constant grief and anger.

And from a very early age, I started to have some very strange things happening from a very

early age, even though I was not sexually assaulted or anything as a very young child.

But from a very early age, I had a very keen awareness of all things sexual and how all of it

was interconnected and worked and everything.

And I believe that I was given that awareness by spiritual forces because from a very early

age, I was tormented by spiritual forces almost every time I went to sleep.

I would have incredibly vivid and violence and disturbing dreams almost every single night.

So by the age of four, I basically knew everything that I know as an adult.

I've gained no new knowledge since that time, even though I'm now married with children.

So the reason I bring that up is to set the stage to say that I was just a very, there was

something wrong from a very, very young age.

But no one in my family clued in on that.

My father definitely, he thought there was nothing strange about this at all.

And my mother, she had had her own emotional things happening and she really wasn't able

to recognize these kinds of problems, even though she was praying she wasn't able to focus

on them.

So by the time that I was five years old, I had developed constant migraines.

I would have migraines every single day.

And I would, I would just hide whenever I had them.

I never told anybody that I was in pain.

I never asked for medicine or anything.

I would, I would just hide under tables or any dark places and try to listen to quiet things.

And it wasn't until we visited a distant relative that noticed my behavior.

She was a psychologist and she noticed my behavior and she thought that's a little weird.

And so she was the first person to ask me why are you, why do you hide in dark places all

the time?

And so, you know, I told her that and that's how my parents found out that I was even having

these problems.

And the reason I bring that up is to show that for some reason by that age, I had decided

that I could not be a burden to my parents.

Even though I was in debilitating pain, I would still not go and tell them that there was

anything wrong because I didn't want to be an emotional burden.

I didn't want to be a burden to them at all.

Fast forward a few months after that time, my, my maternal grandmother was a missionary

in Guatemala.

And at some point in time, we went down to visit her and we went to a Mayan temple and something

happened at that temple.

There was some kind of a spiritual entity that I would say latched on to me because from

that point on, I had much more severe nightmares.

I became, at that point, I became afraid of the dark.

I became, I began to see things more than just like when you're asleep.

I began to see things like shapes and apparitions and shadows and tall men and things and even

when I was awake if the lights were even dim, I would begin to see these strange, strange

shapes and then even during the daytime.

And something within me said, this is not normal, but you can't tell anybody.

So I never did.

I think on some subconscious level, I knew that something was wrong.

And so I remember very distinctly, my mother remarried when I was seven years old and that

was sort of the end of my like parent trap dreams.

If you remember the movie parent trap for these two children, trick their parents into getting

remarried.

My older sister and I had always entertained those illusions with our parents.

And so when they had both remarried by that point, that was the end of that dream and

that really pushed me into a place of anger and depression because I realized I would never

have a complete family.

At the same time, around that age, the series, the movie, the left behind series came out and

my mother wanting to be a strong believer in teachers and truth, she showed it to me.

And I of course had a lot of questions about this movie.

And one of the things that I knew was that my father was not a believer and that my mother

was.

And that in this movie, the believers got to go to heaven and the non-believers had to

suffer and go to hell.

And so I remember very distinctly asking my mother, does that mean that my father, my dad,

would go to hell?

And she said, yes.

And my immediate reaction to that was to completely reject God and faith and anything to do with

him because I did not want anything to do with this God who would divide my family and

send my father to hell.

I didn't want anything to do with that.

And so I started going into a downward spiral.

About that time I started developing anorexia.

While I would starve myself, I would weigh myself or measure myself with my mom's measuring

tapes.

And if I was too big, then I would stop eating for a few days until I got to the size that

I wanted to be.

Shortly after that, I started to have out of body experiences where I would literally be

laying down or relaxing or something.

And I would leave my body and I would see my body on the bed or wherever I was, but I would

not be there.

I would be out flying around and I could look around my house and see what other people were

doing and things like that.

And so I started to have just have these experiences.

I never sought after it.

I never thought about what it was.

I just thought it was sort of a cool thing I could do.

After those started, my dreams started to become significantly worse.

And they started to become more physical where I could actually physically interact with

these entities or they could physically interact with the world around me.

They could do things like move things around my room, like move things off my bed.

And so I became very paranoid about how to protect myself from them and keep my, I'd never

told my parents.

They just thought I was a really weird little kid who was maybe OCD or something because

I had, I would arrange the room in very specific ways so that I could keep myself safe.

So I would put my bed in a corner of the room and I would line both sides where my bed

met the wall with blankets or pillows or things to create a barrier that completely blocked

that gap between the bed and the wall.

And then my blankets had to be all tucked in and then the lights had to be just exactly

the right way only specific lights and only the door, the doors had to be in exactly the

right position.

Some doors could be open but some doors must be closed but some doors had to be like part

way open.

So I had these really specific requirements based on where I had seen entities or what they

had touched or moved or how the clothes they had gotten to me.

And so I trained myself not to move in my sleep to always lay on my side with my back against

the wall so that I could always see everything that was in front of me or that I could see

the entire room at the drop of a hat.

So that started when I was about nine years old.

If I go back to this, this question, the sexual things that were happening at that time,

although it's an uncomfortable subject, I think it's something people need to realize is

I from a young age was being abused by a female relative and growing up when I would have

sleepovers or something with my friends.

Every single one of them would become sexual until I had my first friend at about 12 years

old and she was the first one that I ever had where nothing sexual ever happened between

us.

And so at this age of like nine, this was just the world that I lived in where I thought

everybody lived with these constant tears and I thought having sexual relationships with

literally anybody who was close enough in proximity without adults supervision was totally normal.

And on some level, I knew that there was something wrong with that because I never wanted to

tell adults about it and I knew that I knew that it was something I shouldn't tell but

it's not like anybody told me you can't talk about this.

It was just something that I knew instinctively I couldn't tell anybody.

But I wanted to point out that I was homeschooled so I was under adult supervision almost all

the time and I was still having these things happen and nobody knew they just thought that

I was mentally there was something mentally wrong.

Nobody bothered to ask about it or check about it.

Sometime after about I would say about 10, 11 years old or something, my friends and I

wanted to play the game Bloody Mary and I would urge any parents not to let their children

play around with things that are summoning spirits in any context.

After playing the game of Bloody Mary, although I would nothing necessarily happened during the

experience, after that time I began to notice that faces did start to change when I would

look in the mirror or at pictures, the faces would just change and so I stopped looking at

mirrors even to look at my own face.

Especially the change would always start in the eyes so they would start to become more

and more black and it would be like these large black, I guess almost like a portal or something

of vortex was opening and it would grow from the eyes, it would grow across the face and

the mouth would become like the lips would become thin and dead and start pulling back and

start opening up and I knew on some level that if I ever let the whole face change whatever

it was would either come in or I would pull me in or something like that.

But this started to happen every single time I would look in a mirror so I stopped looking

at mirrors at all. If I had to look in a mirror or if I had to look at someone I learned to

never look above their nose so I would look for nose and mouth down and that would be the

closest I could get to eye contact.

So obviously I was deeply troubled and then I finally hit my pre-teens and all those

craze or hormones and everything kicked in and one thing that I'm sure now if I had been

taken a specialist or something I would have been diagnosed as being on this spectrum at

some point because by the time I was in my teens I had never been a very emotional girl.

I've never been interested in the same thing other women were.

I was always a tomboy, I was always interested in self-discipline and self-control to the

point where as a child if I felt like I was going to lose my temper I would grab my ears

and I would pinch my ears with my fingernails until the pain and then I would focus on

the pain until it overruled the emotion so that I could control myself in the situation.

So I started doing that as a child and as I grew up I just became more and more obsessed

with this idea of self-control and because I became more obsessed with that I became more

I had less understanding towards people who did not have emotional self-control namely

the other teenage girls in my family and even my mother.

By this point I had really seen a difference in the way that men and women were treated and

I saw men as being very strong and nobody would treat men the way I was treated because if

I could back up a little bit that feeling of grief only grew with time and it became so

intense I defined myself as trash and disposable and meaningless and worthless and unloved

and despite my mother's best efforts that only grew with time and so as I grew older and

older I began to define myself more and more as this trash but I decided at some point

that I did not want to bring more pain into the world than was already here and so I couldn't

stand the idea of making other things feel like trash and so I wanted to have a feeling

of control over myself and over my surroundings and the strength like you couldn't hurt me

so that all the things people said and did that we're hurting me would bounce off and

I viewed masculinity as armor and so I decided as a pre-teen that I wanted to become a man

and I even started saving up money for a sex change which is shocking to me because at

that age when I was that age nobody talked about transgender I'd never heard of it you know

it wasn't it wasn't a topic no one talked about these kinds of things at all but somehow

I got it in my mind that it must be possible and I wanted to achieve it so I started saving

my birthday money to become a man so that I could protect myself and have that self control

and have that armor and have some kind of self value but all of these insecurities and

these fears and this constant feeling of grief it just grew and combined that with pure

prepubescent hormones and everything I slipped into a very deep depression and after about

a year or so of that I decided that I couldn't handle it anymore and so one day I decided

to make a deal with the devil and I literally prayed something long lines of you know I'll

say I'll give you my soul if you make me stop hurting and it was like instantaneous I had

no feelings just completely emotionally numb I wasn't happy I wasn't sad I could feel

anger but that was about it and I went on like that for about a year or so but I knew because

when you're completely emotionally numb and then your relatives or something they do something

that should be funny or should make you happy you still have to put on a face you still

feel like you're obligated to put on a face and show them you don't want to walk around

like a robot all day right yes so I tried very hard to put on this act like I could feel

something but I had been I couldn't anymore and so I tried to at some point I sort of realized

I wanted to be able to connect and I couldn't and so I tried to fill that void in other ways

and so I dove headfirst into pornography and this was the beginning times of YouTube and

everything but I found I would just go to the public library because remember I was homeschooled

I didn't have my own cell phone or access to internet but I would just go to the public

library and find things on the shelves there or you know just go to YouTube or like fan fiction

websites or whatever and I would find however much I wanted to my heart's content and even

though our computer was in is in a public part of the house it nothing deterred me it wasn't

important I could find ways to get around it to be creative so I started to dive into that

because I wanted to have some sort of sensations or emotions or something and this at this time

these entities that were attacking me they became more more violent and much more involved

in sort of my fantasies and things so that everything just became more and more and more twisted

I don't want to go into too much detail about that but there came a point where I knew that

that if I didn't if I didn't get some kind of control over the things that I was imagining

or the things that they were teaching me somebody was going to end up seriously hurt and I began

to become exhausted because I was trying to on some level I think my mother's prayers were trying

to lead me to the light because on some level even though at this point I was a practicing

satanist I completely rejected everything to do with my mother's faith I was a kind of kid

that if my mom took me to a church I would carve pentagrams into the bibles and write you know write

expletives' and you know I was the kind of kid that the other good little Christian kids would

all run away from and their parents would in their little homeschool community the other parents

would see my see me and see my mom and say well whose whose kid is that like what's around

with them what are they you know what are they what how are they abusing her you know this kind

of thing but my mother was leading us every morning in worship and prayer she was every

single day praying for us and it was just I think that's what kept me from completely falling off the edge

so at about 13 years old my mother's prayers really bore fruit I think there was a concert in town

a large Christian concert that I was boycotting and I was shaming anybody who went and one of my best

friends was forced to go by her mother and she came back saying oh man was amazing there was this

amazing band that's playing on the radio and you really I liked their music because they were playing

on secular radios and they were like this heavy metal band and I loved it and she was like yeah I got

one of their CDs here you can borrow it and so here I am I'm sitting down doing my homework and

I am in a cold basement it's the middle of winter it's snowing outside like this is a cold

room and it's concrete floors you know like it's a cold little space and I'm sitting there doing my

homework I'm listening to this music and I suddenly had this realization that they were talking

about God and I thought no they're not people like me cannot talk about God like and so I picked up

the CD cover and I looked at them and they were dressed in black and I was dressed in black and you

know they had they had their scars their scars were obvious I was like well so are mine and then I

thought what are they doing talking about God like God doesn't want broken people like me.

This concludes part one of my conversation with Rebecca Wins that she tells her testimony.

We're going to continue this testimony into part two in the next episode.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us

listen to other episodes find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information

about the Fatherhood Challenge please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com

[ wrote ]

In this episode Jennifer Weiss shares her story and life's journey of searching for her identity and purpose. Not only does she reveal how she found it, but also how you can too.

Jennifer Weiss is the founder of The Creative Christian, a ministry that brings biblical truth to the entertainment industry while coaching and mentoring artist in their craft to do the same. You can learn more about The Christian Creative at:

https://www.creativechristian.online/

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

Transcript - A Daughter Finds Identity and Purpose

---

You're going to hear a testimony of a woman who spent her whole life searching for her identity and purpose.

How she found it and how you can too, and she'll join us in just a moment so don't go anywhere.

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere, to take great pride in their role.

And a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. Jenny Weiss also joins me and she's ready to share her story with us.

Jenny, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Thanks for having me, Jonathan.

Jenny, I know this is going to take some time to share your story with us, so I want to leave as much time as possible for that.

So let's get started from the very beginning of how you lost and found your identity.

I was really young when my parents divorced. I was three years old.

And I ended up going to live with my mom.

So I had two older sisters and we went to live with my mom.

And yeah, that was pretty difficult.

There were a lot of traumatic things that happened in my childhood, whether it was my parent using drugs, abuse, different things like that.

And so I grew up with a pretty skewed view of the world, I would say.

You know, thinking some things were okay or normal, that just should never happen, right?

And I was about 12 the first time that I went to a church and responded to an alter call.

And I remember like there was this period where my mom was like bringing us to church.

I don't know why, but well, I do know why, you know, spoiler alert.

That's why I'm in Jesus.

And I remember looking at her when they're doing the alter call and I just said like,

you know, what should I do? Should I go down there?

My mom's like, well, do you want to go to hell?

And I was like, that's a very good question, mom.

No, I do not.

So I went down there and gave my heart to Jesus, but I didn't really give him my life.

I didn't really know what that meant.

And I knew that I wanted him to save me.

I knew that I didn't want to go to hell.

I didn't know who I was.

I didn't know who he was.

And so, you know, there were certain fundamental things I knew.

Like I could pray.

I could ask the Lord to save me, help me because there are a lot of situations in my life

where I needed him to do that.

And he did.

I look back now.

I'm 32 years old. This is 20 years ago.

And I can confidently say, Jesus had my back.

He watched out for me.

His hand was on my life and he protected me, right?

And there were lots of things that I did to put myself in bad situations where I would

need his help.

There's lots of things that just happen because we live in a fallen world, right?

The rain falls on the chest and the unjust alike.

And so fast forward 10 years, I've lived a lot of life.

I have sinned a lot.

You know?

I didn't know who I was.

So I did things to try to find that out.

I drank.

I did drugs.

I had premarital sex.

I did all those things to try to fill this void on the inside of me that only the Lord

could fill.

And I didn't know that, right?

Because the Bible says, "Eternity is written on the heart of man."

And I think somewhere deep down, I really did have the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

So I want to make sure I communicate this.

I was miserable in my sin.

I wasn't happy.

I wasn't having a good time out there partying.

It just seemed like everything that I did added to the misery in my life.

And I thought this would make me happy.

And then it turns out it's empty, meaningless, void of anything, right?

It lead me further into depression, further into darkness.

And there were times where I remember being tormented by demons where I would see demonic

visions.

And I just remembered from my childhood, my sister telling me, "Hey, there's one thing you

can do when you're scared."

And it's say, "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ."

So I'd be laying there, paralyzed in the bed, seeing a demon.

I rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ.

And it's so wild to me.

That's what I knew.

But it's funny how God gives you what you need in seasons, you know, for what you can

handle where you're at.

And so anyway, so I ended up doing all kinds of crazy things.

I joined the Navy.

I was a firefighter.

And I was really searching for purpose and searching for like this.

I want to do something good.

And I was doing tons of things that weren't good while I was trying to do something good.

So it seems like it doesn't make sense, right?

But I ended up in this place where I hadn't moved to Orlando, Florida.

And I'm from the Luxembourg City, which is like a coastal town in the south.

And I moved away there with a boyfriend.

And I think we broke up like a month after we moved there.

And so I was feeling like, "Okay, this was my last chance, like moving here.

I don't have anything to go back to at home.

I don't have anyone.

I'm alone.

And I'm always going to be alone.

And I'd rather just not be here."

And so I was like in the bathroom ready to just like end it.

And I was doing that.

And the Lord spoke to me and he was like, "You do not want to do that."

And I knew that was God because I did.

Like I want I am my flesh wanted to do it.

But deep down like my spirit, I didn't want to do it.

I didn't want to do that.

And that's my belief is like a lot of people who are faced with that situation of wanting

to take their life.

It's because they feel like they have no other option.

And they feel like that would be better than continuing to live the life they have.

But deep down like we all have survival instincts.

We don't really want to end our lives, right?

And so only God could have spoken that to me in that moment.

So I go out and go to talk to the ex-boyfriend and I'm like, "Look, because we still live together."

So it's not right.

I was like, "Look, I was going to kill myself.

We can talk about this later.

But God spoke to me."

And he said, "You know, you don't want to do that."

And he looks at me and he goes, "You are too smart to be that stupid to think that

God is real."

And I was like, "Okay, hold on.

Something's wrong here."

I thought this guy was a Christian.

You know, I thought.

Thank you for breaking up with me.

And I walked outside and I prayed.

And I was like, "God, if you can get me out of this situation, I'm not saying I'm going to

be perfect, but I'm going to do something different."

And I got a phone call from my best friend's mom who, you know, she was like one of the best

influences in my life growing up.

And she called me and she was like, "Genefer?

She always calls me Jennifer.

Jennifer, I want you to move home.

And I will pay for you to go to college.

I will give you a car and you can live here rent-free."

And I was like, "Okay, that has to be God because who would do that, like on their own."

And so I agreed to that.

And meanwhile, she had asked me like, "Hey, don't do drugs.

That's my one rule."

And I was doing well with that for a little while.

Like most people who have a secret addiction or sin, you know, you can pretend for a little

bit, but then it comes back and, you know, I got bored.

I was working for the dean at the college, had a 4.0.

I was like, on the straight and narrow.

And I was like, "I need to spice this up a little bit."

So I started working at a restaurant and what do people at restaurants do?

Drugs.

And so I started doing that with them there and I was like, "This is fine because I'm not

doing it at her house, you know?"

And then I started buying it and hiding it and then doing it all the time.

And then I met a guy, so this is always the hard part of my story was surrounding men,

you know?

And so he went to church.

It's actually the church I'm still a part of today and got saved a month before we met.

So we met in theater.

I had finally got to do all of these arts things I always wanted to do when I was little.

And he brought me to church and I went there and encountered the love of God through people.

There was nothing that I did for them, for them to love me.

There was nothing that I was, I wasn't anything special, you know?

I was like, the lowest of the low, you know?

And they just love me.

And it really opened my eyes to, "Hey, I think God loves me like this.

Actually, He loves me better than this, you know?"

And I started to really just learn about who I was in Christ that I wasn't.

All these things that my story had convinced me I was.

I wasn't unlovable.

I wasn't always going to be alone.

I wasn't abandoned.

I wasn't a mistake, you know?

We all have these words that we carry with us, that we've heard because in the tongue

is the power of life and death, right?

And so coming into God's house, in His family and community, I was able to feel for the

first time, this is really who I am, you know?

And I had people speaking that over me, like, "Hey, you're really a daughter of God.

I never forget the first time my pastor told me, "So, spoiler alert, the relationship didn't

work out with that guy.

We were actually engaged, ended up in the engagement broke apart.

I went into ministry school because everyone was like, "This is what you should do with

your life."

And I was like, "Geller crazy.

I was just doing drugs six months ago."

And so, but I had a dream, like, the Lord just confirmed it and so I went.

And in that time, I was like working for the church, you know?

That was my life.

I was just at church all the time, pretty much seven days a week.

And so, I remember, like, sitting in a staff meeting in my pastor talking about this concept

of sons and daughters of the house.

And what does that look like?

You know, a daughter of the house serves a daughter of the house belongs, a daughter of

the house, you know, pours into others.

And my pastor looked to me and he was like, "Gen, that's really who you are.

You're a daughter of the house."

And obviously, I'm getting emotional.

That missed so much to me because I didn't feel like anybody's daughter for such a long

time.

That's because of how I grew up.

Did you grow up, Fatherless?

I love my father.

I really do.

I think the world of him.

But I also can acknowledge at the same time that I didn't feel like he was really there

for me growing up because my parents divorced, you know?

I lived primarily with my mom.

There were a lot of times where my dad just wasn't there for whatever reason.

Especially when I was 15 years old, I discovered my mom's drug addiction.

And I remember like finding drugs in her room.

It was actually Mother's Day.

We were doing like a spa day.

I went to get something out of her room.

And there was just this pile of white powder.

And I think the thing that happens when you're a kid and something like that happens is

your brain is like, I'm not safe.

I'm not safe.

I'm not safe.

And it's hard to connect that to your parent.

It almost feels like betrayal.

You're like betraying your parent by viewing them in an honest way in the way that they are,

right?

And so I called my dad.

I was like, hey, Mom, I'm going to call daddy.

Like go outside, I call him.

Tell him what happens.

It's just like silence on the other end of the line.

And I felt like my dad should come in and save me.

Like he should be the hero on the white horse, right?

But he wasn't.

And that was incredibly challenging to walk through.

In fact, I think in less than a year, things have gotten so bad with my mom.

I would be finding her passed out with needles.

We went Christmas shopping her and my sister.

And I, and she was like that family that's behind us.

Like they're following us.

And it's like a mom and a dad and their kid.

She's swarving down side streets saying that'll lose them.

She just was not in her right mind.

And I had to call my dad and tell him, hey, I don't know what you need to do, but on your

end, you need to get ready for me to come live with you.

That's what's happening.

So I think that created in me this need and desire to take control of situations because I wasn't

safe because I didn't feel like I could have anybody to rely on.

And that definitely like, led into my relationship with the Lord, feeling like, okay, like here's

what you need to do, God.

If you just do this one thing, everything will be okay.

And it translated into romantic relationships with men too of like, hey, you want to know

how hard it was to let a man lead me.

So challenging because there was this innate thing of like, I just can't trust you.

Are you really going to do what's best for me?

Are you really going to look out for me?

Are you really going to protect me?

And I think men have this natural desire to be a protector and it can be so devastating

for a woman to deny them that right?

And so it's really sneaky of Satan how he set all this up in my life, right?

How he was like, if I can get her not to trust her dad, then she won't trust men and she won't

trust God, but God is so much more powerful.

He's so much more above it and so sovereign.

And I'm just so thankful that maybe that's my story, but like, wow, look at how my relationship

with the father has just become this life altering, life giving, beautiful, amazing story.

How has that come back to shape your view of your father now?

I love my father.

I adore my father.

You know, father stuff really gets me emotional.

So I'm definitely tearing up already.

But I remember the day that I was in, I was in ministry school and I was living in someone

else's home like a host home.

It wasn't really that far from where my dad lives and I'm like lying in bed there.

I think maybe I was sick or something.

And you know, T.D.

Jakes and his daughter, Sarah Jakes Roberts, I love her.

And a video her has popped up in my YouTube feed and I always say like God is sovereign over

the YouTube feed.

Like, there's always stuff coming through at the right time.

And there was this episode with her and her father called daddy issues and I was like,

that's the last thing in the world I would ever watch because I don't have daddy issues.

Y'all, I told you my story.

Like it's blatantly obvious.

But I was like, I'm good.

Like and I would never say that about my dad and I would know, you know, but I clicked

it for some reason, probably because it was the two of them.

I was like, I want to see this.

And T.D. Jakes says to the audience, you know, there's some of you in here who feel like it's

your fault, your father left you.

And I start bawling.

I have never had that thought.

I've never like, I could never pick that out in my mind that bold statement of like, I'm

the reason my dad divorced my mom.

I would have never said that but it was somewhere in there because my heart resonated with

that.

And I actually went to my dad.

I think it was like a holiday and I said, hey, daddy, like I want to ask you, what's the

reason you and mom divorced because no one ever told me.

And I think I've been kind of blaming myself my whole life for that.

And he was like, well, now the journal bill, I'll tell you.

I was like, okay, glad we can have this talk.

And he said, you know, my mom was just passed out all the time, not taking care of us.

You know, just it was very difficult for him.

There was a adultery involved.

And so he said, I just couldn't take it anymore.

And they divorced and he actually remarried shortly after to my stepmom.

And so I think I had this feeling of like, what are we not good enough for you?

You know, and I remember like my stepmom, she was so wonderful and so great and loving until

her mom passed away.

And then it really changed her.

And I still think highly of her as well.

I love her, but it definitely did change.

And she treated us different.

And I remember her telling me, hey, you know, I never wanted to have kids when I was little.

And so there was some hurt and anger, right?

Of like, why did you marry this lady?

Why did you leave my mom?

Why did you marry this lady?

Why did you leave us?

You know, you think this is a better life, you know?

And so one day I was like, just popping into my pastor's office, you know, he'd kind of

become like a spiritual dad to me.

And so I'm like sitting down and I'm like, what's up?

How's stuff going?

Just a casual chat.

And he out of nowhere is like, hey, Jen, I think he still

have some forgiveness you need to work through with your dad.

And I was like, you have some forgiveness.

Like I was like, no, not me.

And I'm like crying while I'm saying that.

No, I don't.

You know.

And as soon as he said that, it's like, gosh, the power of our words, it just convicted

in my heart.

And I realized he was right.

I realized it was true.

Because for Christmas that year, I had

bought my dad stakes like a whole big thing of stakes.

And I was like, so excited.

And the reason I was excited is because deep down, I believed that my dad would invite me

over for dinner if I got that for him.

And that's not what happened.

And I found I was always wanting my dad to be this man that he wasn't.

I wanted him to be the white knight who saved me.

I wanted him to be the dad who was interested in my life, who talked to me, who saw me,

who invested in me.

And he did that in ways that he could, right?

And what my pastor told me is, Jen, things got a lot better in my life when I finally forgave

my dad, not just for what he did, but what he didn't do and who he would never be.

And that's a really humbling experience.

To say, OK, you're never going to be the dad I want you to be.

And that's OK.

Because ultimately, you're the dad that God gave me.

Like you're the dad that God allowed me to have.

And there's a reason for that.

And so I think it takes a huge amount of maturity to be able to look your parents' shortcomings

in the face to be able to take an honest inventory of your relationship with that person and

say, you know what?

I haven't been pretty either.

And one thing I know God says about parents, the only thing I know from the Bible is honor

your mother and father and you will have a long life.

And so I started, you know, someone told me that verse.

And I was like, I don't have to honor my mother and father because look what they did

to me.

They weren't there for me.

You know, they did this down the other.

They sent against me.

And God was like, no, you do.

Like I didn't write that verse and say everyone except for Jen because she had such a hard

childhood.

He didn't say that, you know?

His word is true and infallible, no matter what.

And so I started looking for ways I could honor my parents even for who they are now, even

with what they did to me then.

I was like, okay, God, how can I honor my parents?

And sometimes that's like asking for my dad's advice, right?

Calling him on Father's Day, telling him happy birthday.

It doesn't have to look like putting myself or my mental health like in a precarious place,

right?

But honoring the way that God intends me to, it's all about the heart.

Now that we've heard your story about losing and finding your identity, how did you find

your purpose?

I had always wanted to do arts related things since I was a little girl.

People were like, you should be an actress when I was little.

I would dress up and like entertain my family.

And really that was kind of like my survival skills because I knew if I could make people

laugh, I wasn't in a bad place, right?

And so I loved to sing as well, but my sister's teased me about my singing so I never thought

I had a good voice until I was in high school.

I had my first boyfriend were driving in the car.

Country song comes on the radio.

I start singing and he's like, oh, you have a good voice.

And I was like, wait, me?

No, I just thought like I stunk because my sister's told me I did, you know?

And so my family was very musical.

Starting up my mom is a singer, my dad, world's greatest guitar player.

My dad introduced me and my mom to all the great music that I grew up surrounded by.

And I started playing the saxophone when I was 12 and so I played all the way through high

school.

I got a full ride scholarship, which I turned down because of a boy, of course.

And I always had that within me, those gifts within me.

I love to write.

I wrote so much as a kid in read books.

I love to read books.

And so I finally get to this place where I'm in college and I can pursue things that you

just can't do when you're growing up with like all this trauma.

And so I start taking piano and voice lessons and theater and got my associates and fine

arts.

And I was in my very first show, which by the way, let me tell you how prideful I was back

then.

The casting list came out and I was not the lead role and I marched into the director's

office and I said, why didn't you give me the lead role?

And he laughed and laughed and he was like, this is your very first play.

And I said, so, so I know a lot to learn and a lot of humbling to go through.

But I got the role of a 63 year old German librarian and it was a great role.

It was very challenging and there were actually some people from Germany in the audience

that night who were like, what part of Germany are you from?

And I was like, I fooled you.

And so this director was also there and he saw me recruited me to come be in his show.

And that was where I met that guy that I had mentioned who brought me to church.

And so once all that fell apart, I really had some decisions to make.

I remember my pastor challenging me like, hey, when I was in ministry school, Jen, I think

you should not act for this year.

And I was like, literally like a spoiled child.

I was like, no, that's not fair.

Like I just discovered this thing that I love doing more than anything else, which is probably

why I needed to stop doing it.

And God just kind of revealed to me like, you're not going to know who I created you to be

until you stop pretending to be other people all the time.

And so I laid that wonderful thing down and thankfully the Lord was gracious enough.

To give me more opportunities to do it.

And when I was 25, I was on this mission strip to Los Angeles.

I was reading a book called Driven by Eternity.

And it really takes you through this process of discovering what is your calling, like your

unique calling that God has on your life.

It's a very wonderful book.

I recommend it.

It is a little scary because it does talk about what happens when you get to heaven before

the great white throne of judgment.

If you haven't answered the call of God in your life, and that scared me so much, I was like,

I'm Lord, you're going to reveal to me what you created me to do because I cannot miss

it.

And so I was reading that book on a plane.

I took a nap and just had a dream.

Everything was black.

And the Lord said, I've created you to bring biblical truth to the entertainment industry.

And so I did not know what to do with that.

I took it to my mentors, pastors, prayed, and really the word for that season was just like,

do what you can where you're at.

I was in another show at a theater and there was a girl who came out.

Her mom was abusing her for her whole life.

And I took her out to dinner, shared Jesus with her.

She came to church, gave her life to him.

And she's been like a spiritual daughter to me ever since.

So whether it was that or mentoring youth at church or teaching the Bible in creative

ways, like God was just kind of showing me how to do that.

And then I ended up running a school for creatives in a ministry that I was a part of back home.

And God really showed me there that I would then go on to do bigger things.

And once I moved to Georgia to plant a church with my pastors, the Lord really showed

me like, okay, you're going to have a ministry.

It's called the creative Christian.

And it's three parts, one part, a school to teach creatives, their gift and a faith-filled

environment, the second part, a production company so that those works of art they have

can be made.

And the third part is equipping creatives to use their art on the mission field.

And so that's really how God revealed that purpose to me.

As we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?

I think of Father's biggest purpose is to give his child a picture of God, of how God loves,

of how God protects, of how God, you know, pours himself into us.

And so I just would challenge fathers to devote themselves to God more because I find the

more that we spend time with God, the more we become like Him.

And the more that a father becomes like the Lord, like Jesus, having the heart of God,

loving like He does, displaying the fruits of the Spirit, the more that their kids are

going to understand who God really is.

Thank you so much for closing us out and thank you so much for sharing your story on the

Father and Challenge.

May God bless you and your life, Richley.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned

in this program or find out more information about The Fatherhood Challenge, please visit

thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.

[űnnyot not]

In this enlightening episode my guest reveals groundbreaking insights into achieving personal growth. If you're stuck, or at your plateau in life and you either can’t see what’s next or how to get beyond where you are, this is one you’re not going to want to miss.

Bryan May is a highly sought-after Breakthrough Consultant who helps individuals break through personal and professional barriers. He’s also a dad. Drawing from his personal experiences, Bryan now helps others overcome limiting beliefs, self-doubt, and life's inevitable plateaus.

To learn more about Bryan May or get coaching visit:

https://www.bryanisamazing.com/

Find Bryan May on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/bryan.may/

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge

Transcription - Overcoming Life’s Plateaus

---

In this enlightening episode of The Fatherhood Challenge, my guest reveals a groundbreaking

insight into achieving personal growth if you're stuck or at a plateau in life and either

you can't see what's next or how to get beyond where you are.

This is one you're not going to want to miss, so don't go anywhere.

Welcome to The Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere

to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers

are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.

I have Brian May with me.

Brian is a highly sought after breakthrough consultant who blends business acumen with

spirituality to help individuals break through personal and professional barriers.

He's also a dad.

Drawing from his personal experience, Brian now helps others overcome limiting beliefs,

self-doubt, and life's inevitable plateaus.

Brian thank you so much for being on The Fatherhood Challenge.

Thank you very much for having me, I appreciate it.

Brian let's start with your story.

What's the story behind how you became a breakthrough consultant?

The story is this.

I am a couple of years ago I had a tragedy in my life and I lost my wife and so my son and

I kind of rebuilt.

He was only one and a half at the time and I was very spiritual beforehand and it took

me more onto that path.

When you have such a young boy, you don't want him to have negative feelings towards these

kind of events that are obviously negative towards us as adults, right?

Even obviously if you're a child, five in up, which he's five now, of course would be

very sad for them but at one and a half, it's a hard thing to deal with.

I didn't want him to have negative feelings towards it.

That's what kind of broke me out of this shell that I was in and really forced me to keep

living life if that makes sense.

Is it normal to hit a plateau in life or is there ultimately something wrong with us or

in us that is creating the plateau?

I think it's totally normal to hit a plateau, right?

I think we hit multiple plateaus depending on the areas of our life, whether it's going

to the gym and not being able to lift more weight than a certain amount, whether it's

not being able to make more money than a certain amount.

I think plateaus are super normal and with breaking through, with being a breakthrough consultant,

the whole point is to break past limitations.

The whole point is to break past those plateaus by gaining clarity, right?

We want that new level of understanding.

We want to turn that moment of an obstacle or a challenge and we want to transform it into

an opportunity.

As they say, it's the darkest before the dawn and we need to push through and sometimes

we get stuck because we run out of options of how to push through and sometimes people

don't want to push through.

For me personally, I don't take on clients that let's say they know they're in some kind

of a trouble, they know they hit some kind of plateau, but they don't want to push through.

It has to be someone that, hey, I really want to get to the next level but I don't know

how or I don't know what's stopping me.

But once you say, hey, I want to get past this, I want to get a Ferrari, well then your brain

can start thinking a little differently.

It is very important to understand that these plateaus are totally normal in life and we

have to want to break through that.

When you get to a point that you don't know how to break through, you need to seek help

just like you would if you were in the gym, you would hire a personal trainer.

It's just like that.

What you went through was often what's referred to as the dark night of the soul and oftentimes

for me, I've hit it twice in my life and every single time it's a terrifying experience

and I have at first tried to avoid it that tends to be the instinctive reaction you just want

life to go on and you don't really want to go into that dark night place.

There are bad consequences to be paid over a long period of time for avoiding that dark

night experience rather than just going through it.

Going through it is terrifying.

It is not a fun place to be but who you are coming out on the other side of it.

If you've gone through it well is often a place where you can find your identity and purpose

and it sounds like that's kind of like what you went through.

Absolutely.

I think there's multiple layers and I think what people have to realize, which they know,

a lot of times you push it to the side is that different people feel differently, people react

differently, right?

There's not just one trick for everyone.

You have to work with people based on their personality and based on their previous experiences.

I think that a lot of times we think that, "Oh, well, if I go through this dark night of

the soul, I'm never going to feel negative things again."

That's not true.

You can go through it and still feel negative emotions.

I'll give you an example.

This just happens to me.

Last week, Monday and Tuesday for whatever reason, I woke up Monday morning and I just

was not feeling well.

It was like sadness was just very heavy on my heart.

In May of this year, I lost my mother.

She passed away.

My father is, he's going through his own grieving process.

He wanted to remove some of my mother's clothing from the house and we ended up bringing

a lot of the clothing here and going through it.

I think it was a combination of that.

I felt very heavy Monday and Tuesday.

What I remind myself, even though I'm sad, I still am happy that I'm going through this.

I'm happy that I am experiencing these human emotions.

I try to enjoy it.

I try to enjoy those waves up and down and it's very important because listen, that's how

I connect to my late life.

That's how I connect to my mother and I have my little playlist on Spotify and I enjoy it.

I enjoy the sadness.

I rest and then Wednesday I woke up like a superstar.

Wednesday I hit the gym harder than ever and it was a great thing and I think one last

thing, you have to remind yourself and I think that remembering and reminding yourself,

people always talk about affirmations but just simply reminding yourself of things is

very important because the brain has a tendency to make us forget, if that makes sense to

you.

Through significant personal challenges, we've talked about the loss of your wife and then

we've also talked about the loss of your mother which I know what that's like when the death

of my mother really is one of the big things that sent me spiraling into my second dark night

of the soul.

Death just has a way of really waking up some things in you, questions that you may have

had and that's what sent me into that direction.

But you also have been through some health challenges as well.

How have all of those things shaped the way you coach?

Absolutely.

I mean, a lot of it is about resilience, right?

A lot of it is about getting knocked down and getting back up.

You know when you're a child, it's very normal when you start to walk to constantly fall

and it's normal when you start and learn to ski that you know when you, the first time

you ski, everyone knows they're going to fall.

And so the question is, are you willing to keep getting back up in order to get to the

black diamond?

Are you willing to keep getting back up in order to learn how to run?

And the only way to do that is by continuously falling.

You know, Michael Jordan has scored many, many points, but what's even more impressive

is how many shots he's missed.

I believe it's around 12,000.

And so the best baseball players have missed the most balls.

And so we have to really remember that failure is really a way to get success.

And so between health issues, I have Crohn's, which is a stomach disease, and I just wouldn't

let it stop me from living my life.

You know, I know people personally that have some kind of a stomach disorder and they just

stay at home.

They have a work from home job.

They play video games.

They never go out.

They don't have many friends that they see in real life.

And listen, their whole life is built around their conditions.

And now some conditions are more controllable than others, but for me, I just, I don't take

no for an answer.

Whether that's in sales, business, negotiating, and I like win, win, but it has to make

sense.

And you can't just accept that first now.

Talk about your successes for a little bit.

I think that's important given the light of where you've come from.

And for the audience to understand what is possible, you have Crohn's.

You've made a decision not to let it hold you back from living your life.

You've had two significant deaths within the last few years.

So brag about yourself for a little bit.

What are you doing with your life?

My previous life in New York was all real estate.

So I own property in Brooklyn.

I own property in Maryland.

I own property in Florida.

I've sold over 300 houses as a real estate agent.

I own my own office with partners.

We sold, you know, I've sold over $250 million worth of business collectively, the company

probably did half, you know, $500.

And we ended up working out a deal with one of the stars from million dollar listing.

And so he ended up acquiring the company.

I did a lot of flips in New York, you know, buy the house, fix it up, sell it.

And then, you know, after everything happened between COVID, my wife passing, moving to Florida

from New York.

And so I worked and I still do work with someone named Marshall Wilkinson who has, you know, he's

done $3 billion worth of deals.

He owned a construction company in New York that was bought out for $100 million.

And he's my mentor plus I work with him on his projects.

I like the lifestyle.

It's nice freedom, right?

Because whether I'm in my house, which I am right now, or I'm in Dominican Republic, which

I go to, I can still do these kind of things.

It's a lot of freedom.

And I like to give my clients a lot of attention, you know, even though we do have these weekly

meetings, if someone's having an issue, if someone's having a challenge during the week,

and if anyone's gone to talk therapy or any kind of therapy, if something happens, let's say

I'm just making up an example, you get into a fight with your partner on Monday.

Now if you're seeing someone, whether it's a therapist or a coach or a consultant on Friday,

that emotions have really died down from Monday.

Chances are you've already made up.

If you didn't make up, chances are it's less than it was on Monday.

And so you're not getting the full picture.

And so what I do with my clients is I like them to at least lead me a voice note, not a text

message, but a voice note.

So I could really hear the tonality of their voice.

I could hear the words they're using.

And that's how we define negative self-limiting beliefs, right?

When you're in that moment, because when something negative happens, usually you go back to

default.

So I like to use that.

So then when we do meet for our session, we could, we could really dissect that voice

note.

And I think that that's really, really important.

On this program, we've been a broken record about knowing your identity and purpose and

the consequences, what it can do to your life, how it can even destroy your life, if you

don't find it.

What role does knowing your identity and purpose spiritually play and helping dads get unstuck?

Well, it's for sure.

It's a big one, right?

I mean, there's no question about that.

Authenticity is something that I always speak about, right?

It's something where I look at it almost as like a comedian where I love comedy.

I love stand-up comedy.

And I'm sure that we've all seen a comedian on Netflix or HBO or in-person where sometimes

it just falls flat and other people are laughing and sometimes your hysterical laughing.

And so when we find our true identity, it doesn't matter what audience is in front of us.

We're going to be ourselves and talk like ourselves.

And still, of course, be respectful.

And identity and purpose is so important.

A lot of the clients that I have are older in their 40s, 50s, 60s.

They've made a lot of money and they're looking for a legacy.

A lot of these guys have made money doing very boring businesses.

And so one guy, he owns a lot of taxis.

So boring business, but he wants to leave a legacy to his family.

And so it's very important to understand identity and understand your purpose in life.

And really what it turns out is that most people's legacy and purpose are their children or maybe

it's charity, but it's leaving something to future generations, right?

The legacy is absolutely right.

It's a product of finding your identity and purpose.

So that becomes the next step that is on your mind to achieve.

And for dads, this is huge.

That is ultimately what every dad would want.

Totally.

You know, as we move on in life, we do need to change our identity.

And changing our identity doesn't mean we aren't being authentic.

If we were the same exact identity that we were in high school, that actually would be a problem.

And so if you think of it as a business term, because really I've done a lot of business

consulting, a guy that owns a company, let's just say an HVAC company.

He goes and he deals with air conditioning systems.

Well, when he first starts out, he just created a job for himself.

He's going to house to house.

He's fixing people's air conditioners.

And then as he grows, he needs to hire people.

He needs to buy more trucks.

He needs to do advertising.

And he needs to grow.

And so he changes his identity from a business operator to being a business owner.

Now if you take that and extrapolate it, when you deal with like a Fortune 500 company,

like Goldman Sachs, the guy who's the CEO of Goldman is very different than that guy

who owns HVAC company with let's say five trucks, even 10 trucks.

And so you have to switch these identities and people really do fall into certain identities.

There's men out there and women out there that can take a company from zero to 100K.

There's men and women out there that can take a company from 100K and turn into a million.

And then there's people out there that can turn a million into a hundred million dollar

company.

Those are all different identities.

And the same thing is true of fathers.

The identity that you need to be a father of a baby is different than of a teenager and

it's different of a 20 year old, right?

And so how we teach our children is mostly the way we do things ourselves, right?

Monkeys see monkey do.

I think that really raising a child is you raising yourself and giving yourself a second

chance at raising yourself.

I've said this many times, children do what they see their parents do.

It's another reason I think it is so critical to be solid with your identity and with your

purpose because if you have that down and you are active about leaving a legacy, guess what

your kids are going to learn how to do.

You know, this is like an easy metaphor to think about.

You have a father that's a drinker and he's drunk all the time.

He still works, right?

There's a lot of functioning alcoholics.

And so you have two sons and one son never drinks because his father is an alcoholic and the

other son is an alcoholic because the father is an alcoholic.

And it's very hard psychologically to know why one child, because right, they live in the

same house.

Why one child goes to the one extreme and one child goes to the other?

And so really, we just have to do the best we can because we don't know exactly what

mutation of genes our child is going to be.

And for anyone out there that has three, four, five, six kids, I know the other day you had

someone on that was a father of six kids.

You know, you start seeing all the mutations of genes.

And so you have to be the best version of yourself to give your children a fighting chance

because it's not fair to say, well, I'm going to be an alcoholic or I'm going to do negative

things just because, okay, this way my kids won't want to be that negative person.

Like, it's too much of a gamble.

That's not the right way of doing it.

It should be, I'm going to do the right things and I'm going to teach my kids to do the

right things and then they will follow in my footsteps.

Can you explain how small consistent actions can lead to major breakthroughs in life and

why people often overlook this approach?

Totally.

The simple answer is it lacks instant gratification.

That's the simple answer.

To go to the gym, let's say lift one weight, maybe go to the bathroom, maybe take a shower,

maybe sit in the sauna for 10 minutes.

You're actually doing something.

You're physically in the gym.

You're not at home.

You've made yourself way to the gym.

Now you're not going to become Arnold Schwarzenegger by doing that.

At the same time by actually getting to the gym, there's a much higher percent chance that

you are going to do one extra exercise.

You're going to walk past the machine and just say, okay, I'm going to try that.

You're going to walk past the weight and just do one bicep curl.

And so the more you go, there's a higher chance you're going to do more and more.

And what a lot of people do, as we all know, by February, most people quit their gym membership.

They're like, I'm going to lose 100 pounds in the next month or I'm going to gain 100 pounds

of muscle in the next month.

They set themselves up for such failure that it's an all or nothing proposition.

Instead of like water hitting a rock for many, many years and putting a hole in the rock,

consistency is the most important.

So I always have clients really take whatever their goal is because I still want them to

dream big.

This isn't about lowering the goal.

It's finding out how to get there in a consistent manner.

And so doing these small, consistent steps, you get massive transformations over the long

haul.

So like a good metaphor that I like to use is, let's say you have a shovel and you're digging

a hole.

Instead of looking every single time you put the shovel into the ground of how deep the

hole is.

And instead of looking behind you to see how much dirt is behind you, just set a timer

for 30 days.

Go out there every day for 30 days and dig.

And what you're going to find is that after 30 days that hole is going to be massive.

And it's much easier on the brain than saying, I'm going to build this massive, massive hole

and then getting defeated right away.

So it sounds like the secret really is small, reasonable, realistic goals for where you are

coupled with very disciplined, consistent habits that you can easily follow.

Yeah.

I mean, really, what is discipline?

Discipline is really putting your emotions to the back burner.

Everyone is emotional based.

We are all triggered by emotions.

No one makes fun of each other anymore.

I was born in 1980 growing up, everyone made fun of each other.

Everyone had fun.

Now you make fun of someone and they cry.

They break down because they're weak.

And so we can't just say, I'm not feeling like doing X. I do a lot of sales.

There's many days I don't want to pick up the phone.

And a lot of people that are sales people that reach out to me, they don't reach out to

me necessarily for sales coaching or sales training.

They actually reach out to me for call reluctancy.

A lot of people reach out to me because they're like, I can't pick up the phone.

I'm scared of talking to people that I don't know.

And that's where it's fascinating, right?

Because we really need to understand that all this is about ourselves.

All of this is, what do I want best for me?

What do I want best for my child?

And the truth is that we have to put emotions aside and get the things done.

You often talk about the importance of reframing adversity.

Can you share some examples of how reframing a negative situation can turn into an opportunity

for growth?

Absolutely.

You know, NLP, neuro-leguistic programming and many modalities, you know, that's the principle

for it.

That's the job of it.

It's to reframe.

And I think that everything in life can be reframed.

And so, you know, for me personally, there's been many things, right?

But like, let's say, let's just say the loss of my life, I have reframed it that, hey, I

need to live my life to the fullest.

I need my son to live life to the fullest because who knows how much time we have left.

And so, it's not about not being said, but it is about getting things done and doing the

best we can and enjoying life because this is what it takes.

And so, with reframing, listen, every negative thing, like to think about this, a guy, a make-believe

guy, he's working, he gets fired because of layoffs.

Now we all heard stories in the past of people like that committing suicide.

We've heard stories of people really going down into like the darkest hour.

And but what is it?

If you reframe it of now, I get that opportunity to start that business.

Now I get this opportunity of time because now I don't have to wake up at 4 a.m. and take

the train and work all day.

Now you can still have the opportunity to find another job, but in the meantime, you have

the time.

So with that time, becomes an opportunity or reframe to work on yourself.

Now you can get to the gym.

Now you can read that book.

Now you can take that online course to learn a new skill.

And so when you redirect it and reframe it as, okay, now I have the time to do these things,

you can catapult yourself into the next area of your life.

So I really believe that reframing is important because anytime something negative happens, you

want to ask yourself, what can I learn from this?

What is this that's causing that I can gain an opportunity from?

And the truth is there's an opportunity in all of these things.

And until we really look at it like that, you know, what happens with our brains is we have

a belief and so we find supporting data of that belief.

So right now, let's say, economy.

If people think the economy is bad, they're going to start looking for people that are doing

bad in their work.

They're going to start looking for people that are laid off, looking for people that are

losing their job.

They're going to look for news that's negative and they're going to reinforce that idea.

Now if the same person says, hold on, just because the economy might not be doing as well

as it was in 1985, there's still people out here making a lot of money.

There's still businesses out here thriving.

And then when you start looking at the road, all of a sudden you start seeing Ferraris,

all of a sudden you start seeing Mercedes.

All of a sudden you start hearing about stories about a guy selling his company for 100

million.

And so what happens is you start gaining these insights of, oh, I'm supporting evidence

that even though the economy might not be as well as what people are still making money.

Because misery loves company and it's very easy just to surround yourself by miserable people

to help yourself feel better.

How can dads listening connect with you, learn more about what you're doing or get your

coaching?

My name is Brian May, B-R-Y-A-N, Brian with a Y, and you could either go to my site, Brian

isAmazing.com or check me out on Instagram, Brian.May, B-R-Y-A-N-M-A-Y.

And just to make things easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.

I will have the links that Brian mentioned posted right there for your convenience.

Brian, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?

You have an excellent chance to re-teach yourself.

You have an excellent chance to redevelop yourself through your child, to raise your child

as you would want to be raised, and really be present.

And listen, we're all working, we're all hustling.

Make time, just like you schedule time to watch your TV show or you schedule time to go

to the gym.

You have to schedule time to be present with your child.

And so at least bare minimum, 30 minutes a day, really be present.

Really, I'm not talking about just watching TV with your child, but do the homework with

him or her.

Do an outside sport with them.

Really be present.

And as you're in that present moment, the biggest challenge that I can give you is start

giving your children affirmations.

Start saying, you are amazing.

You are loved.

You are strong.

You are confident.

And have your child repeat it back.

I am strong.

I am confident.

I am enough.

And if you do that every single day, just imagine the self-talk that that child is going to

hear.

Imagine how amazing that child is going to be.

And so I just, for example, when I'm walking my child to the bus stop, he's kind of kindergarten.

Every day we walk to the bus stop, I give him affirmations.

When we're in the car and I pick him up from school because he takes the bus in the morning,

I pick him up in the afternoon, I'm always giving him affirmations.

And the other thing is really praise based on effort.

You know, it's like, wow, you tried so hard.

It's okay to make mistakes.

Because once again, like we spoke about at the beginning, if you do enough failures,

you will succeed.

It's been an honor having you on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Thank you so much for all the wisdom and experience that you shared with us.

Thank you.

Really appreciate you.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in

this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.

Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com

[BLANK_AUDIO]

In this episode we're going to explore the connection between Fatherhood, God and you and why it matters. We will also dive deeper in to the meaning and purpose of Malachi 4:6.

To learn more about The Fatherhood Challenge or listen to other episodes, visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com or you can find The Fatherhood Challenge by that name on any major podcast listening app.

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Transcription - Fatherhood, God and You

---

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,

to take great pride in their role, and a challenge society to understand how important

fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.

There's not a minute to waste on this episode, so we're going to skip the usual

dad jokes and we're going to dive right in. The mission and purpose of the Fatherhood Challenge

is based on Malachi 4/6, which is turning the hearts of fathers to their children.

Every episode, everything done by this program has to align and center around that

scripture verse and mission, so please take the time to read Malachi 4/6 for yourself

and become well acquainted with it. Your future depends on it.

For those of you listening to this program for the first time,

let me share my story on how this program started. The reason God put this program into the world,

is not for my benefit, although I have personally learned a lot and grown a lot from some of the

episodes produced. God intended this program to warn the world of the horrible consequences of not

taking the warning of Malachi 4/6 seriously. God cares so much about relationships in the home.

God cares about dads. He cares about the Father, son, father, daughter relationship. He cares about

marriages too. Why? Because they all impact how we see the process and understand God. God is so good.

He always has been. He always will be. He has given us nothing but good things, good gifts, the gifts

of family. We human beings are the ones who have trashed and ruined his gifts. Then we blame God for

something we as humans did to the perfect gifts that he gave to us. Then we try and repair the

broken gifts ourselves and reject anything from God going forward. Imagine if you gave someone a perfect

gift out of love, hoping that it would also help that person understand you a little better and they

trashed your gift. They rejected you instead. How would you feel about that person? Would you love them

anyway and still try to connect with them? This is God. This is who God is. What does this rejection look

like for us today? Approximately 18.3 million children. That's about one in four are growing up without a

biological father in the United States. It is also still one in four globally. South Africa often

reports one of the highest rates of fatherlessness with estimates suggesting that around 60% of children

grow up without a father. Let me share some impact on the damage fatherlessness does to children.

Let's look at this from an angle of mental health. Anxiety and depression for example research shows

that children without fathers are two to three times more likely to suffer from anxiety and depression.

Now let's move on to conduct disorders. Higher prevalence of issues like ADHD and behavioral problems

leading to difficulties in school and relationships are also likely. Now let's talk about the

economic consequences. For example poverty rates. Fathersless families are over four times more

likely to live in poverty with around 30% of those households facing food insecurity. Then let's talk

about education attainment. Fathersless children have 71% higher chance of dropping out of high school,

limiting future job prospects and earning potential. What about crime? How does fatherlessness

impact crime? I'm going to share two points of this. There's a lot more to talk about with crime,

but for the sake of time we're keeping it very, very brief. Juvenile delinquency when it comes to that

children from fatherless homes are two to three times more likely to be involved in criminal

activities, including theft and gang involvement. What about incarceration? About 85% of youth in prisons

come from father absent homes, indicating a strong correlation between father absence and criminal

behavior. Now let's move on to the spiritual aspect, the spiritual consequences. As far as moral

development is concerned, lack of a father figure can lead to uncertainty about values, ethics,

resulting in moral confusion. Then let's talk about identity issues. Many fatherless children struggle

with their sense of identity, which can hinder spiritual growth and community involvement.

You've heard me many, many, many times on this program be a broken record talking about the

importance of finding your identity and purpose. The world likes to define this in other terms,

in psychological terms and other terms, but it would be irresponsible to completely negate the

spiritual. And many times the world likes to very purposefully omit the spiritual necessity in finding

your identity and purpose. In other words, the world would like to pretend that you were not created

by God and that God somehow has absolutely no involvement in giving you an identity and purpose.

We have such a high need for therapy and other resources, specifically for dads who struggle with

things like addictions, things that dads use to numb. What are dads numbing? A majority of the issues

stem from a hole inside of them. You can imagine an image of a human being and in a store-so area,

there's a huge hole of who he's supposed to be that's missing and that hole is an identity

and purpose. And so when you feel that emptiness, you know, you know inside of you that something is

wrong that you are not complete, you'd feel it and it hurts. It's painful and you always wonder who

is I supposed to be something at some point robbed it from you, something, some event in your life,

something happened that robbed you of your identity and purpose. And so you will do anything you have

to do to go find that either that or you will do anything you feel you have to do to numb the pain

of that reality that you are missing that wholeness, you are missing your identity and purpose.

And this is why we have so many programs for addictions. This is why the therapy business is booming

because we are trying to solve all of these problems that stem from a spiritual issue. Rather than

address the spiritual issue behind this, we avoid it and we seek it other places. And we think

somehow that that is going to be a permanent solution and it's not. It can help us address some of the

pain. It can lead us on a path towards healing, but it will not last and it will not remain firm and

it will not fill us completely without the spiritual God has to be present and be part of the solution

or it is a complete waste of time. So now let's talk about the specifics that underscore the multifaceted

impact of fatherlessness on individuals in society. If you read Malachi 4 6 carefully,

there is a reference to a curse for not taking God's warning seriously. God saw this curse coming

out as a thousand over a thousand years ago before we even tried our best to understand the scripture.

We've responded by trying to explain the curse as talking about anything else other than fatherhood

or we've just flat out ignored it. I can remember the first time that I read Malachi 4 6 and my reaction

then was cool story, bro. So in my own way, I had distanced myself. This is something that happened

thousands of years ago. It has nothing to do with me. It's not related to me. And so for me, it just

read as, hey, this is great advice, turning the hearts of fathers to their children. Yeah, great advice.

People should look into that. That's it. That was the extent of its relevance. It was something that

just happened to be written thousands of years ago and a little part of that might be relevant for

us today. Other than that, for me, the purpose of the story was just to show us what was being talked

about in some society and some specific culture thousands of years ago. And that's it. And that's

for the most part, that's where we leave that story. Pastors have avoided it in their congregations.

With the exception of networks and stations airing this program, the media, both Christian and secular,

have avoided the topic of fatherhood and they have avoided the topic of Malachi 4 6. Fatherhood groups

and organizations are content to stay away from Malachi 4 6. And any association with fatherhood

and especially with God, this includes dad coaches. It's a saturated market. Dad coaches today

are actually arrogant enough to believe that leaving God out of fatherhood can still result

in a dad who's at his best. God is the ultimate dad coach. If you aren't following and teaching his

ways, then you are selling others short and teaching a lie because you aren't getting your information

from the source. Let's talk about the curse God tried to warn us about over a thousand years ago.

What does it look like today? It has gotten our attention in the form of mass shootings. So let's talk

about the impact of fatherlessness on mass shootings. Whenever a mass shooting happens, one of the first

narratives that you're going to hear throughout the media is the narrative about gun control. It is

almost as if we have this this agenda that has been waiting for a reason, waiting for an excuse to be

pushed through legislation, waiting for an excuse to be pushed through mass media. But it just needs

the right story and the story has to be real. It has to be true. And so every time a mass shooting

happens, it is the perfect gift to the media. It is a perfect gift to politicians who have been waiting

for the right opportunity to serve this in front of you, the audience. So gun control is the very first

thing that you're going to hear. The other common narrative, which just backs the gun control

narrative is the need for school security. What you won't hear talked about is what was going on

in the home in the family life of the mass shooter. You will not hear that presented front

in center. That will not be the first thing that the media wants to talk about. There won't be

those deep investigations. And it's easy to do that because all you have to do is say, hey, the

family has a right to their privacy. And that's it. That is all the excuse anyone and everyone needs

to stay away from that issue. And so we'll talk about everything else because it's easier. But we are

missing so much vital information in understanding the home life behind these shooters. There are common

threads. We just don't want to look at them. And maybe it's because there are echoes in the

in the lives of those families that might look a little bit like our own reality. And that's a

painful thing to face. For example, let's look at the Valdi shooter. No one was talking about the

home life of the Valdi shooter. This was an event, a mass shooting that happened in Texas. No one talks

about the Valdi shooter's father, his lack of presence, his lack of consistent involvement in the

life of his child. He was missing to be blunt. No one talks about the impact of the marriage on that

kid. That kid suffered a lot. It does not excuse what the shooter did while he's a child. He's still

responsible for what he did. But my point is there are a series of events that led up to that moment.

And all of them center around the home life. It centers around the marriage. What happened to the

marriage between the kids father and his mother and the mother is not completely innocent either. She

has her own role to play of being missing emotionally and physically unavailable for her son.

The same as the father. And then let's talk about the daughters. There are two daughters involved in

that home. Both of the daughters went to the military. They went to the Navy. And they were also on

record, stating that one of the biggest reasons why they went to the Navy was because their father

was unavailable for them, both physically and emotionally. These are the stories. These are the

truths. These are the realities that the media won't talk about. This is why we're talking about it here.

In other words, what we can say is that we've come to a place in our society that a mass shooting

is less painful to us than talking about what's going on in our own homes. And that is a really,

really bad place to be. So when we read that scripture texts in Malachi 4, 6 where it says,

"Well, less I strike your land with a curse." Back thousands of years ago mass shootings were not

something that anybody in that culture and that time would have understood. Whenever God presents

something in our time, or in the case of their time thousands of years ago, He always spoke to people

where they were in their culture, in their time, in their reality, in their language. They

understood curses. They understood exactly what that was. When famine happened, when other bad things

happened, when war happened, pestilence, and their mindset and their culture, that was likely because

they did something to anger some God. And so they had better change what they were doing. Figure out,

first of all, what made that God so angry that He caused these things to happen. Second, we need to

change so we can make that God happy again. And then maybe these curses can be reversed.

That was their mindset. This is the way they thought thousands of years ago.

So God spoke to them in their language in a way that they would understand.

What God really wanted out of them was change in their homes and their families. The same is true

today. God expects and wants the same for us. Thousands of years ago, God knew these things would

happen. God knew about these curses, the way they would look for us in our time. By the way,

mass shootings are just one example of the curse. It's not the curse. There are many other things. I

mean, we can look at our crimes statistics. We actually already did. We've already taken a look at

some of those consequences, some of the curses that God saw thousands of years ago that He was trying

to warn us about long ago, but we have missed it. We have ignored it. And so this is why we are talking

about it today because we have to change. We have to be willing to do something different.

The statistics that we're reading, the realities of what are happening of what's happening today,

the suffering that is happening in families and homes, the brokenness, the fatherlessness is not

acceptable and we have to do something different. We have to change it. So let's talk about how

fatherlessness impacts marriage. Fatherlessness can significantly impact event individuals' views on

marriage and relationships, leading to various outcomes. So here are some of the key effects.

Let's look at attitudes towards marriage. There is skepticism. Individuals from fatherless homes may

develop a skeptical view of marriage, often seeing it as unstable or untrustworthy. Let's also talk

about expectations. They might have reduced expectations for their own relationships, potentially

leading to less commitment. Marriage as a whole, at least in the United States, have actually dropped.

Fewer people are getting married. There is a lot of cohabitation that happens. And even couples

that are considering marriage will often cohabitate before they marry. Could this likely be linked to

the skepticism about marriage itself? Could this also be because of the lower expectations of marriage?

I can assure you that this was not what God intended for marriage to be. This is not what it was

originally intended to look like. But fatherlessness does play a role in damaging the marriage institution.

Let's talk about relationship skills. The lack of role models growing up without a father can mean

fewer positive male role models resulting in challenges in understanding healthy relationships

and communication. Have you ever wondered why you see so many kids on screens? Why they're constantly

looking at phones, those that have phones. They have to be distracted by something. And they struggle

with interpersonal relationships, communicating with their parents, communicating with other adults.

Those skills just aren't there. Let's talk about another aspect of communication. Let's talk about

conflict resolution. Skills for resolving conflicts and navigating emotional intimacy may be

underdeveloped, increasing the likelihood of relationship problems. This might feed right over into

divorce rates. If we can't resolve conflicts, then marriages can fall apart easily. So how is

fatherlessness increasing divorce rates? Research indicates that children of divorced or single-parent

families are more likely to experience divorce themselves, sometimes due to a lack of understanding

of a healthy, marital dynamic. If we don't have a good example of what a healthy marriage should look

like, because it's not part of our reality with our own parents, when it's time for us to have those

relationships, we look to what's around us, because we have nothing else to go on. We can either just

form our own opinion based on what we think it might be based on our own internal ideals of what we

think marriage is. And if we're not sure about that, we'll look to the culture around us, which really

isn't looking so great, because the examples of what a healthy marriage looks like now. And we're only

talking about the marriages we see around us, may not be the healthiest to look at into model. We

haven't even talked about the high numbers of divorce around us, the people around us that are divorced

or that have been divorced multiple times. And we look at that as the norm. And so it can cheap

an marriage. We can lose that value and understanding of what it means to remain committed. And that's a

very bad thing for us to see. Let's talk about teenage pregnancy and unstable relationships.

Fatherless youth, particularly girls, are at a higher risk of early pregnancy and may enter into

unstable relationships, perpetuating cycles of father absence. And this should not be very difficult

to understand, because girls growing up in the home often look to their father as the ultimate example

of who they should look to for a husband. So when the father is missing, and this has two components

to it, this can be physically absent and this can also be emotionally absent. And we're talking

about girls, but this is also true for a home with boys. The father must be physically present,

and must be emotionally present. They are equally important, but when it comes to teenage girls,

if the father is either physically absent or emotionally absent, it can lead and will lead likely

to destructive patterns in who they seek in a mate. Now let's talk about emotional challenges.

The fear of abandonment is very, very real. Individuals may struggle with fears of abandonment

and commitment issues, making it difficult to maintain long term relationships. There we go.

There's another impact on marriage. That's negative. Then let's talk about trust issues.

Past experiences of father absence can lead to trust issues affecting both romantic

and platonic relationships. This may also feed into why people who are divorced are less likely

to remain in that marriage when they remarry. Now let's talk about parenting styles,

replicating patterns, for example, individuals from fatherless homes may unintentionally

replicate their parents' relationship patterns affecting their own parenting style and future

family dynamics. This is how cycles can get repeated. This may be where generational curses can

actually play out, so it is something to pay attention to. Where does this all lead to? What is the

conclusion? The impact of fatherlessness on marriage and relationships is significant and multifaceted.

There are efforts to support through education and positive role models that can help mitigate

some of these effects and promote healthier relationships. But again, without the spiritual focus

on strong relationships with God, the chances of these solutions having a lasting effect

are significantly reduced. The top two reasons that everyone is leaving God out of an absent

father or marriage crisis is anger and/or shame. Emotions are powerful and often scream louder to us

than truth. Truth can be bold but quiet. Emotions flow, they come and go. They can be warning signs to

us or simply make us feel good in the moment, but they aren't solid or unchanging. Truth is solid.

As the scriptures say, the truth will set you free. This is where we come to identity in purpose.

Every man must know his identity in purpose. It is essential that every man seek this truth

in his own personal life. Without this truth, you are building your life on sand instead of rock.

You will be easily ruled by your emotions, by trends, the media, and the lies that you hear from

others. Your true identity in purpose is only found in connecting with your Heavenly Father.

There is no other way to find this. If your marriages in crisis, this is where you start to find answers.

If your relationships with your children are in crisis, this is where you start to find answers.

If your job or career is in crisis, this is where you start to find your answers.

If your whole life is garbage, this is where you start to find your answers. Let go of yourself

and grab onto your Heavenly Father and don't let go. Get a good Christian therapist who understands

the value of restoring you to your true identity in purpose and can help you do this. Next,

get connected with a group of Christian men who will welcome you and enjoy fellowship with you.

They will be essential to your personal growth spiritually.

Last, listen to this program and share it with others that you know who would benefit from what is

taught here. As you listen, I want to challenge you to pray and ask the Holy Spirit to open your mind

and teach you as you listen. This program began because the Holy Spirit asked me to start the

Fatherhood challenge. I had no desire or interest in doing this when he asked me. That was one

sign that it was his voice I was hearing clearly and not my own. But I felt the love of Jesus and the

love of the Father expressed through the Holy Spirit for fathers and families everywhere.

For the children this program would someday bless. I was also very well aware of how God Himself

personally rescued me from my own brokenness and saved me from breaking my family and marriage apart.

I remembered how I heard Jesus forgave me for my many sins knowing that no one else had the power to

forgive them. Jesus forgave me and treated me as if I had never committed those sins,

giving me a fresh start, a chance to live a new life in Him. Now the Holy Spirit is inviting me

to cooperate with Him, to partner with Him and start a new program and a new ministry to build

strengthen and restore fathers to their children. After what He did for me in ministry to build and

strengthen me, after what He did for me, I was not about to say no, working with the Holy Spirit,

working at the center of where God's heart is, is where true meaning lies and where wholeness

and joy is found. I have come to enjoy what I do and consequently I've found more joy in God.

I challenge you to do the same. I challenge you to connect with Him right now.

Clear some space wherever you are, clear some time and just take that moment. Don't put it off,

don't waste time, use this time right now and just quiet yourself and open up your heart to God.

Open up to your Heavenly Father. Lay down the shame. Lay down everything. Lay down the fear.

He just wants you the way you are. Right here, right now. Just talk to Him. He is waiting.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us,

listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more

information about the Fatherhood Challenge, please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.

[Music]

[Music]

Are you struggling with an addiction in your life right now? It could be alcohol, drugs, pornography or something else. Have you tried or considered walking away but are losing the battle? Addiction is passed down in part from generation to generation but so is recovery. The good news is there is a roadmap to recovery and I’ve brought a guest who will share some gold nuggets of that roadmap with us.

Sarah Allen Benton is a licensed Advanced Alcohol and Drug Counselor and a licensed Mental Health Counselor. Sarah is also the author of Parents In Recovery. Sarah has also been a parent in recovery from alcoholism for over 18 years.

To learn more about Sarah Allen Benton or get her book Parents In Recovery visit:

https://www.bentonbhc.com/

Socials:

Sarah’s Facebook: 

https://www.facebook.com/sarahallenbenton

Parents in Recovery Support Group Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1x5nQE5WX9WGxhxv/?mibextid=K35XfP

Sarah’s Linked In:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahallenbenton

Parents in Recovery Instagram: 

https://www.instagram.com/parentsinrecovery

Sarah’s Psychology Today blog:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-high-functioning-alcoholic

Self-Help Groups:

• Alcoholics Anonymous (12-Step spiritual): www.aa.org

• Celebrate Recovery (Christian): www.celebraterecovery.org

• Dual Diagnosis Anonymous:

          https://ddainc.org/ (12-  

      Step)

• Narcotics Anonymous (12-Step spiritual): www.na.org

• SMART Recovery (skills-based): www.smartrecovery.org

Therapy Finder:

Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists

SAMSHA: https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help

NAMI: https://helplinefaqs.nami.org/article/255-i-need-to-see-a-psychiatrist-therapist-how-can-i-find-one

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

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Transcription - Breaking Addiction Cycles

---

Are you struggling with an addiction in your life right now?

It could be alcohol, drugs, pornography or something else.

Have you tried or considered walking away

but are losing the battle?

Addiction is passed down in part

from generation to generation, but so is recovery.

The good news is there's a roadmap to recovery

and I brought a guest who will share some gold nuggets

of that road map with us in just a moment,

so don't go anywhere.

- Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge,

a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere

to take great pride in their role

and a challenge society to understand

how important fathers are to the stability

and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

- Greetings everyone.

Thank you so much for joining me.

My guess is license advanced alcohol and drug counselor

and license mental health counselor Sarah Allen Benton.

Sarah is also the author of Parents in Recovery.

Sarah has also been a parent in recovery

from alcoholism for over 18 years.

Sarah, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

- Thank you so much for having me.

- Sarah, what is your own story of recovery

and how did that lead to becoming a counselor

and writing parents in recovery?

I was 27 when I entered into my recovery journey

and it was preceded by 12 years of binge drinking

and I was a high functioning alcoholic

so I was really successful in school.

I had a lot of friends.

I had a lot of outside accomplishments

but I had an inability to control my intake

when I would start drinking.

And this, you know, for many years was fun and social

and humorous and then as I got,

into my, you know, mid to late 20s,

it started not to be funny anymore

and in fact something that I couldn't stop the cycle of.

So after about four years of trying to control my drinking

with various and clearly not successful techniques,

I entered into sobriety

and through the help of therapy,

through group therapy, through self-help programs,

through social supports and spiritual pursuits,

I have been sober for over 20 years.

So my journey into recovery started before I became a parent

and some of the parents I interviewed

actually had different orders for those

but I had quite a bit of sobriety under my belt

when I became a parent

but what's interesting is I don't know

if it made the journey any more simplified for me as a parent,

I found becoming a parent in recovery

actually really challenging.

That's probably what prompted the book

because I realized that I had so many years in my sobriety

prior to having my daughter where it was all about me

and I was able to do all of the things I needed to do

on so many different levels for my recovery and balance

and that really, that got all rocked

when I became a parent.

And so really the story of this book also begins

with me walking into a bookstore

seeing a book that was called Mother Noise

reading about how this mother was grappling

with Cindy House, the author,

grappling with whether or not to tell her 11-year-olds

about her addiction and how it's such a part of us

and it struck me that there just wasn't a lot out there

about nonfiction-wise, maybe memoir-wise

but nonfiction-wise about navigating this path.

- So from what I'm gathering out of this,

there were so many things at play in your success

in breaking that addiction and removing yourself from it.

It wasn't just one magical thing.

There were so many different things involved.

- I think that point is crucial and never to be underestimated.

I'm in the field of addiction treatment

and I'm also in recovery so I see it from both sides

and what can happen is people get fixated

on one particular thing, being the thing that saves them

from their addiction and really what it is is to your point.

It's a lot of different aspects and domains of our lives

that we need to foster a lifestyle of recovery.

It's not just, oh just don't use, don't drink,

don't pick up porn, don't engage in addictive behaviors.

It's an entire lifestyle change and it's not all at once.

It's gradual, it's over time, it's different for each person

but you'll notice the parents that I interviewed in my book

all had a way that they had created recovery

in the different domains of their lives

and that they had to shift in each of those

when they became a parent.

There's another really important point that I'm hearing here

and I wanna just kinda dig a little bit deeper into that

and that is the spiritual component of it.

There are a lot of people and maybe even some listeners

listening to this episode right now

that may have heard or may currently think that

to be all and all answer is a spiritual.

That's the one and only thing I need.

I need to just connect to God, I need to give it all to God.

I need to lean on God to remove this from me

and then just like that, boom,

in the snap of a finger, just like that,

it's gonna be gone, everything's gonna be okay.

I'm no longer gonna have the desires or the cravings

or whatever it is and that's going to be my fix.

And I want it to a part for you while I don't want to discredit

that that can happen and it is absolutely possible.

Spiritually speaking and this is also scriptural,

God will often and most commonly use resources around us.

Often, more often than not, multiple resources around us

we live in the physical world here while the spiritual is nice.

We live in dwell and exist in the physical world

surrounded by resources and oftentimes

it is those resources that God will direct us to

looking at this from the spiritual lens.

So there's multiple ways we can come at this

and this is why I'm so glad for the audience to hear from you

and even from others that you've interviewed.

- Well, that's a powerful point because spirituality

and religion are very important for many people in recovery

from all sorts of afflictions, right?

There's medical components that spirituality

and religion help people with, there's emotional,

there's addiction, there's so much.

I mean, it's a cornerstone for many people.

I've actually seen cautionary tales of people

who relied too heavily on spirituality or religion

and did nothing else.

But that's one, and again, I use the term domain,

spirituality is one domain.

There's also actions to be taken in terms of your emotional health,

your physical health, your daily schedule, your work life balance,

your balance with your children, your fun, your downtime.

And so I think that our God leads us to

that our brought to us to utilize

and then we can sort of let go in that sense

but we have to do the legwork, right?

So it isn't sit back, pray and do nothing.

That's really not what it's about.

It's about feeling a flow and a path

and taking balanced action in all of those different domains

that vary time to time, stress to stress

and also using your spirituality as a superpower as well.

- There's a word that's come up so far

in this conversation that's interesting.

The word is lifestyle.

What do some of the changes look like in parents

changing from an addiction lifestyle

to a sober family lifestyle?

- Well, I was very deliberate in using that term

in the title of my book because through the years,

I've more and more through my work with other people

in recovery had these discussions about how,

when I first got sober, there was a lot of feedback

to me from people in my life saying,

why don't you just stop drinking

and just keep things the way they are?

Your life's pretty good and people like you

and why does everything have to change?

And I didn't know.

Like I didn't have a field guide to sobriety,

I went to self-help meetings, but I didn't understand

that it's almost like when you pour a glass of water

or a little bit of water on your desk

and you're like, oh, it's just a little bit of water

and it seeps into everything.

That's the same thing with addiction

and therefore recovery needs to be the antidote to that.

So we don't realize until we stop addictive behaviors

how it impacted a lot of our decision making

and it impacted a lot of the different areas of our lives

who we spent time with, what work we did,

where we hung out, what social activities we did,

if we did anything in that sense,

how we managed our strengths, our recreational activities.

So it actually drives a lot of our lives.

So when we enter into recovery,

all of those areas are then meeting shifting

because they were rotating around the addiction,

whether conscious or subconscious.

Again, I wasn't aware of this until I removed

that addictive behavior from my life.

And so slowly through the years, I started to see

that this isn't just a removal of the addiction

or the addictive substance.

It was a complete reorganization of my life

and so the parenting component is even more interesting

in that sense because you have your lay of recovery

and those different changes in lifestyle changes you make

and then you add this other layer on top of it

a parenting where it's not about you

and you have this other being that has needs

and suddenly everything sort of your equilibrium

gets thrown off and you adjust, but again,

kids have different phases and stages and all of that.

So the lifestyle as a parent and you start to see it

as a sober parent and you can really read about it

in the experiences of parents that I interviewed

where we do feel a little bit different than other parents.

We don't feel like we have the luxury

of just getting completely stressed out

and checking out with substances at the end of the day.

We don't have the luxury if you should call it that

or the right actually.

We've lost our privilege and our right

to use substances moderately because we don't have that ability

but to show up at a party on the weekend

and just throw them back.

So for much of our society, there is that cultural component

and it's hard to undo that and I say lifestyle

because a lot of our culture and many in specific areas

even more so in specific fields

and there's a lot more of a socially acceptable nature

to substance use.

And so a sober parent or a parent in recovery

is living their lives different.

Their reward system is different.

The way that they engage in self care

as a priority is different.

The fact that they may have to integrate more balance

and not run themselves completely ragged

that they need to address their mental health issues.

And again, it's not that everybody shouldn't do these things

but let's be real.

A lot of people don't and especially when they become parents,

they lose all sense of balance

and they oftentimes lose themselves.

You mentioned care.

This is a great segue into the my next question

which is why is it imperative for a dad in recovery

to take care of himself?

What could that care look like for a dad?

Well, I think it's interesting to speak specifically

to fathers because I don't think fathers get enough credit

for their role in parenting

and I think that there's been some type of a societal shift

where a lot of fathers are much more involved in the activities

and the caretaking of children.

They're not just bringing home the bacon.

They are involved in many different aspects of fatherhood.

So in the past, I think that there was a lot

of this work hard play hard mentality

that could often involve substances.

And again, I think that men and women's recovery is very different.

I do think that women have the ability to bond

and to connect in different ways.

I think sometimes men struggle to connect with each other

in their downtime and in the activities they're doing

without substances.

Some groups of men, I'm, you know, again,

there's exceptions, of course.

But I do think that there is this kind of bonding

and that the substance drink or pot

or other substances can bring down inhibitions

allow men to connect.

And so when, you know, whether it's at home or with their friends,

like when you take that away, social groups change,

work socializing changes, the adventure going to the way

in which you manage your stress, like what role did,

where's your outlet?

How are you going to get that energy out?

Is what kind of exercise or mental exercise or spiritual exercise

do you need to do?

How are you going to now connect with your friends?

There's so many questions.

And, you know, I think that men also struggle

with the vulnerability piece of getting their, you know,

needs or being in touch with their needs

or identifying how they're feeling and expressing.

Very true, yes.

Yeah, so I think it's really different for both.

And I've worked with personally, I know and interviewed

and have had clients like male and female.

And I really feel like there is a significant difference.

Why do you think it is important for kids

to know about their parents' past lives as addicts?

The disclosure levels were different.

But at a certain age, I do believe it is very important

to share with your children about the fact

that you do have an addictive issue

because it's highly genetic.

And so this would be much like having diabetes

in your family or cancer in your family

and not sharing it with your children

because there are preventative actions that can be taken

to help decrease their chances of having it.

So in the case of substance use disorders,

it's, you know, genetics account for about 50%

the chance of developing it.

But on the really positive side, the surgeon general has

found that if you postpone substance use specifically alcohol,

to the age of 15, you decrease the chance of developing

an alcohol use disorder by 40% regardless of family history.

That's pretty significant.

And each year after that, it's about a 7% increase

in a decrease, sorry, in chance.

So the conversation really doesn't have to focus on,

oh my gosh, I did the craziest stuff when I was younger

and get into the war stories.

But what it can involve is that you had a loss of control

over your drinking, what that looked like,

or substance use, what that looked like, what that felt like,

so that they can also identify if and when they do try it,

that they maybe have a similar experience,

and how you can set them up for success

to possibly be a normal drinker in this world, right?

I mean, not everyone has to fear it,

but how can we have a healthy respect for it,

and how can we set our children up to understand their genetics?

So the conversation isn't just about trauma bonding

and, you know, I just want them to know really who I am.

That is part of it.

I mean, I does feel nice to have my daughter now

who's a tween, know that I drink for other reasons,

but don't drink for other reasons besides health.

But there's also pieces of it that's been

an education process with my daughter.

- Is there an appropriate age to bring that conversation up?

- I think there's a particular age that feels comfortable

for each person.

I noticed, and I really listed off in the chapter

around different stages.

I remember just listing off all the varying responses

that I got from parents and recovery

because I realized there isn't an answer of what age,

but I do, I would say, like, as a therapist,

I would recommend that by the time that alcohol and substances

become part of the landscape in your child's life

through school and through the community,

that they have some understanding of their family history

and some prevention strategies.

- So it looks like that there is a mentality shift

that has to take place in your own thinking

as you're talking to with your kids.

And you reveal that the secret of that really

is the generational component, addressing it that way.

And so that brings the issue very much to the present tense.

Am I understanding that correctly?

- Yes, that's really an interesting take on it.

And I think that there's my recovery pride chapter

is really something that I just can't speak highly enough

the concept of having pride for being in recovery,

but there is baked in to our past use and past debauchles

that we had.

Most people have those kinds of stories from their past use.

There is shame around that.

And also there's a fear I know from a lot of parents

that if I share these things with my children

that they're gonna think that they're acceptable

or they're gonna get ideas.

That isn't always the truth.

In fact, a lot of children have the opposite response

where some of them, some parents got sober after they became parents.

So their children already saw some of the behaviors.

And so when they got into recovery,

their children were relieved

and this was a source of pride in their family.

For others, it was the thing in the past

and the child would have never known it to happen

or it was in the really early years

when they didn't have much of a memory.

So some of the stories are cautionary tales for children,

but I think you also have to gauge the temperament

of your child and are they risk takers?

Are they impulsive?

Are they risk averse?

Are they, you know, do they listen and process

and really, you know, and do they learn or are they rebellious?

Like I think some of it's a personal choice

and really an assessment of your own child

of what, you know, what you choose to share.

- What are some of the ways that dads listening

can cope with fear, stress, anxiety,

without resorting to an addiction to numb?

- Well, that is the million dollar question, right?

And stress is therefore the entire world.

It's not just here for people with substance use disorders

and addictive behaviors.

But what it is is that we all have turned

to a more maladaptive, maladaptive is the term I use for it,

a more of a maladaptive coping.

So how do we turn that around?

And it takes time.

First of all, I think people are going to experience cravings

when they increase in their stress level

or whatever it was, the prompt that was leading them

to engage in the substance use.

But some of it is gradual and over time.

I do think that social support and the self-help meetings

that are now so readily available since the pandemic

because things have gone virtual and in person, you know,

you have both.

There's so much at our fingertips for social support.

So I would say one of the things is really finding

a group of men and or men and women in a self-help group

that you can connect to, that you can vent to

and have a release.

It's like the balloon starts to fill up

and you need to be able to let the air out

and do that in a safe environment.

I do find in particular for, and I'm, again, generalizing

for men that more extreme exercise seems to be something

that I don't know if it's hormonal-edriven,

but it seems to be something that a lot of men in recovery

are drawn to and that has really been a key component

for them in their recovery.

There are certainly some women that would have a test

to that as well, but I see it in a more extreme way with men.

I also think that the spiritual component can also

be a great add-on.

There's also the need for your family to have an understanding

and adapt and the family system to itself have a parallel

recovery process if your spouse isn't in recovery

or if you're single, to have some level of understanding.

And that's another reason why in some ways,

the disclosure of being in recovery is also a discussion

around the need for self-care as a parent with your child.

Because if it's not baked in, again,

as part of your family system and part of your lifestyle,

then you start to feel guilt or people give you a hard time.

But my daughter only knows me as a person that needs certain

downtime, certain self-care things.

That's all she knows about me.

She's never known me to not have those needs.

And so again, it can become part of that culture in your family

and part of your lifestyle.

It has to start slowly, but it really is possible.

And I've seen many men transform their lives.

And I've also seen amazing stories of men who

had children when they were using and then children in recovery

and had completely different experiences.

And it's really a beautiful thing to see.

You use the term parent in recovery

as if it's an ongoing thing.

I mean, is that term really ever expire?

Or are you always in recovery?

I do identify as a person in long term recovery.

But it is-- and I do believe, and I do

feel, with the amount of time I have in recovery,

that it's still something that I have to actively work on.

And it comes in different forms, but it doesn't mean

that suddenly I'm cured.

And I can just behave and do what everybody else does.

As far as my thinking that I could also go pick up a substance

and because I've been sober for 20 years, be fine,

I've proven that to be wrong over and over again

prior to my getting sober.

I would take breaks from drinking and I would go back

and I would have exactly the same experience.

So I know as a fact that if I picked up now,

nothing would be different.

If not, actually, it probably would have progressed and be worse.

So yes, I believe it's an ongoing process.

I also believe that recovery is a growth opportunity.

And so the recovery process, it gives us a launching pad

to grow in different ways that we were all

stunted when we were in active addiction.

How can cell phones or other digital devices

get in the way of living a sober lifestyle?

It's such a part of our lives.

And it also has addictive qualities.

And so there's been a lot of research and a lot of work

by some amazing researchers, the work of Ann Lemke,

Dopeamine Nation, and just a lot of discussion

around the impact on young minds,

on the dopamine priming effect, and how people

that have addictive behaviors can also

be more prone to have more of an addictive relationship

with their phone and vice versa, where I also

talk to my daughter around electronic usage

from the perspective of actually from the perspective

of addiction.

So I talk about the effect on the brain.

I talk about how the movie The Social Delama is brilliant.

And I think even just the first half of it

is really appropriate for tweens and teens, really

educational and helps them to understand

that we're not just being nags, and we're not just trying

to give them a hard time, but that there's some basis

for why there are some limits and boundaries with phones.

But I think adults have their own reckoning

because these apps, in social media apps, are designed.

And that's a lot with that movies about.

They're designed specifically to give us a dopamine hit

every time we get a like, and every time we get feedback,

and every time there's a notification.

So again, there's a lot of crossover

between the parts of the brain that get set off

by addictive behaviors and our phones.

So I think there's a million strategies

which are discussed in the book both for ourselves,

as parents and recovery, and also for what

we can support our children with because it's a two-prong experience.

And really, there are so many strategies,

but I think it's important to be aware of our own relationship

to our phone, what our weak spots are with it.

Are there cleanses that we need to take from particular apps?

It's a necessary evil for work, and we can't unrealistically

remove our email and our text and just be missing.

But at the same time, do we have parameters and limits

we can separate ourselves and actually stick to them?

That's those are questions we have to ask ourselves.

There's also the other impact of social media

and seeing how everyone is advertising

and being their own PR agent around their lives,

and there can be this fear of missing out or phomo,

especially for people in early recovery who are not

going to some of those social events,

but yet have to have them in their face.

So some of this is a self-induced torture that we do

by staring at what's going on in other people's lives

when maybe we need to keep it a little bit more focused

on our own.

How can dads listening now learn more about you?

Get counseling or get your book, Parents in Recovery.

Well, my website is Bentonbhc.com,

and I have information and resources there.

I also highly recommend finding a therapist

with addiction experience.

It is a specialization.

It's not something every therapist is trained to do.

So I think that Psychology Today has a wonderful directory

and can point people sometimes in the right direction.

Also, I encourage you to contact your insurance company

and try to look up therapists by specialization.

As far as social media, I've started a Parents in Recovery

Facebook group.

It's called the Family, sorry Parents in Recovery Support Group,

and it is a Facebook group.

I also have LinkedIn with Sarah Allen Benton and Facebook,

but I really appreciate feedback.

My email is on my website,

and I really love getting readers feedback.

It really makes it worth it.

And also if people are looking for support in different areas,

I also like to help people to sometimes find resources

in different parts of the country.

And just to make things easier,

if you go to thefatherhachallenge.com,

that's thefatherhachallenge.com.

If you go to this episode,

look right below the episode description.

I will have all of the links that Sarah mentioned there,

posted right in the description for your convenience.

And Sarah as we close,

speak to that dad that has tried to become sober

and free of addiction, but is discouraged

and feeling defeated.

- Well, I think that there's many people

that have been in your spot.

I've known many people that have either relapsed

or never really gotten it and been able to commit to sobriety.

And it's important to know that there are other people

out there.

If you put your hand out,

there's going to be a hand out there for you.

There are millions, 23 million people in recovery in our country.

And we focus so much on those that aren't,

but you have to realize that there is a group of us out there

and some people are more anonymous about it than others.

So you don't always know and you'd be surprised

at how many people in your community

may also be struggling the same way that you were.

So please reach out for support.

I'm going to give some links for some of the self-help

group meetings that are out there.

There are some for, you know, males specifically

that can be really helpful.

And I really want people to know they're not alone.

- Sarah, you're here with your own story.

Being willing to share that so openly,

it takes a lot of courage.

And so I just want to thank you for coming

on the father and challenge.

- Thank you so much.

I really appreciate the opportunity.

I mean, this is the only reason I wrote this book

is to touch other lives and to find, you know, meaning and purpose

in the journey that I've had in hopefully short circuit

the process.

- Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood

Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes,

find any resource mentioned in this program

or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.

Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.

[END PLAYBACK]

Are you ready to hear some great stories? If so, you’re in the right place. You’re going to hear true stories about how a simple vision and acts of service can change families, relationships and communities. You’ll learn powerful ways to teach your kids the value of service to others and how it can change their life.

Rodney Smith Jr. is the founder of a 501c3 organization called Raising Men & Women Lawn Care Service which provides a very inspirational program that focuses on channeling the energy that youths have in a positive way as well as helping those who need it the most.

To learn more, donate or get involved visit: https://weareraisingmen.com/about-us/

To donate to the organization Amazon Wishlist visit: https://weareraisingmen.com/amazon-wish-list/

Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit: https://ingeniusprep.com/get-a-free-consultation/?utm_campaign=2024+Podcast+Email+Marketing&utm_content=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_medium=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_source=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_term=Fatherhood+Podcast

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Transcript - Servant Leadership Training

---

Are you ready to hear some great stories? If so, you're in the right place. You're going to hear

true stories about how a simple vision and acts of service can change families, relationships,

and communities. In just a moment, you'll learn powerful ways to teach your kids the value of

service to others and how it can change their life. So don't go anywhere. Before we begin,

I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of this episode and the Fatherhood Challenge,

In Genius Prep. In Genius Prep is the world's premier admissions consulting firm proud to be

officially recognized as the country's top college admissions consultants helping students

prepare for admissions to top schools through individualized educational programs that increase

chances of admission by up to 10 times. In Genius Prep students work with former admission officers

to differentiate themselves from other competitive students in three areas colleges evaluate students.

In academics, extra curricular activities, and personal characteristics. Just this past admission

cycle, In Genius Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy League schools, 268 offers

from top 20 schools, and 904 offers from top 50 schools. In Genius Prep student success lies

within the fact that In Genius Prep is an all-in-one consulting firm offering every service of family needs,

whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy, building mentorship, academic mentorships,

the leadership and innovation lab, soft skills courses, writing courses, and other customized

programs to develop their application persona to the most effective and authentic extent to share

with colleges. Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free strategy call

with one of In Genius Prep's college experts or you can visit ingeniousprep.com. That's

in Genius Prep.com and let them know you came from the Fatherhood Challenge. Welcome to the Fatherhood

Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to take great pride in their role,

and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of

their family's environment. Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero. Greetings everyone. Thank you

so much for joining me. My guest is Rodney Smith, Jr. Rodney is the founder of a 501-C3 organization

called Raising Men and Women, Lawn Care Service, which provides a very inspirational program that

focuses on channeling the energy that youth have in a positive way as well as helping those in need.

Rodney, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge. Thank you for having me. I really

appreciate it. Rodney, let's start with your own story, starting with how you grew up and what led

you to start Raising Men and Women, Lawn Care Service. Yeah, so, um, originally I'm from the island

of Bermuda. I came to the United States to finish my last two years of high school in a small town

called Aminia, New York. It was a small boarding school for kids with learning disabilities.

And I was there for two years and I would say the best two years of my life, one graduating from

there. I went to Fort Lauderdale, Florida because I thought I wanted to do something with computers,

so I attended ITD Tech out in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And I was there for about six months and

during those six months, I had a hard time adjusting and just one night I just prayed to God and asked

Him to use me as a vessel. He didn't give me answer that day, not a month later, not even a year later.

It would happen a few years later and here I am in Huntsville, Alabama in my senior year of college,

getting my bachelor's in computer science. And I was leaving school one day and I came across an

elderly man outside Muingan's lawn and looked like he was struggling. So I done what anyone would do.

I pulled over and helped him out. And literally, I know that once more, the kind of was what eventually

changed my life ever. And from that day on, I started Muingan free lawns for the elderly, disabled,

single parents, and veterans in Huntsville, Alabama. With me being in school, I thought I could move

40 loans by the end of winter, moving in between classes, but I moved 40 loans so quick that I might

go to 100. I'm often half laid. I've reached my 100 floor and that's when the idea of raising men

and now raising women in the lawn care service came about. But I was still more free lawns for the

elderly, disabled, single parents, veterans, but I also include kids locally to come out and move with me.

And that kind of is the whole story on how the organization came about.

It makes sense that serving others can be a powerful experience for those who receive the service.

What exactly is it doing or teaching the one who's serving?

What's teaching the kids? The importance given back. I know growing up, my parents always

seem still to me, that it's important to give back. And I just wanted to pass that on to the next

generation because a lot of kids in this day and age, they're inside playing video games.

So I thought, hey, let's get them away from the video games and let's get them out doing something

positive in the community. And the response has been very positive. A lot of kids, they enjoy

getting out there and making a difference one lawn at a time because I know when I was a kid,

I hate mowing lawns, but God took something I dislike and turned to something I love to do. And every

single day I got to wake up and mow free lawns and in course, the next generation to give back as well.

Interesting. So you used to hate mowing lawns. Yes.

And now you've developed a real passion for it. Yes, sir.

So is it about the mowing lawns part? Is that the part that you've come to enjoy?

Or is it the result of the impact that makes the lawn mowing more enjoyable? Or is it both?

Yeah, I would say it's both because I enjoy mowing lawns now. It's therapeutic and I enjoy helping

people and making a difference and encouraging the next generation. And seeing the smiles that

were putting on the people's faces that we helped because many of them on fixed incomes.

So when we can come mow the lawn for free, then now freeze their extra funds up.

And they can get things that's really important like food and medication and stuff like that.

What are some of the creative ways that dads can raise their kids to be service centered rather

than self-centered? Just look at ways to help the community. You might have a special skill set as a

dad. You might be able to fix cars. You might be able to do something,

paint a building, paint something, or just just so many different ways to give back.

If you see a need in your community, I would say start from that and build from that and encourage

people to support you with that. My way was to make a difference of a lawn mower.

Yours might be the same or yours might be something different. But just find ways to give back

the drift because there are so many ways and there are so many people needing help.

There are people that sometimes call me about like help with removing trees. That's a big thing,

especially for the elderly here in Alabama to remove one tree out of a yard is about three to four,

five thousand dollars. So if you can find a way to give back doing that, that would be a great help

to your community. So just, yeah, I'll just encourage them just to find a way, see what the community needs

and try to fill that need. We are in a society and a culture that is just driven by making profit

by generating income. It's all about what can I get out of something? Yes. So it goes against the grain

to be a type of person that will do a big task for somebody and not expect anything in return.

Everybody is thinking that somebody wants something. So are you ever met with skepticism where

someone's like, what do you want from me? Surely you want something? This can't just be for free.

At the start of the organization, a lot of people were skeptical about this can't be for free,

but after them seeing what we were doing and found out it really is free, they start

warming up to the idea. So I don't fully come across anyone like that anymore because people see

the work that we do and if someone needs help locally, we're there and we're doing it for free.

And our goal is just to encourage others to, because we're going to be going to most of

many loans by ourselves. So to see others jump in the mission and give back as well, that's important

as well. So yeah, that was something that happened at the early stages of the organization,

but I don't really see it that much. Do you ever see that it is contagious that what you're doing

is contagious? Do you ever see it spilling over into other ways where people want to pay that

action forward? Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of this is contagious. People see what you're doing and they

want to do the same thing in their community or they want to make do something different in their

community. So it's, you know, it's like a ripple effect. You do something good, someone sees it and

hey, what he's doing, I want to do the same thing in my community. And so I've seen a lot of that,

and that's that's very good because it's such a need. I get calls from all over the country

of people asking is your organization in my city or my town? And you know, sometimes we don't have

kids that are volunteering in our program in their city. So, you know, I have to say no sometimes,

but you know, to see other people step up and take the initiative and just

see what we're doing and just doing it in their community and that's something special.

I learned a long time ago if you plan to see you can always watch it grow. So that's what we're trying

to do. Let's talk about the spiritual implications of what you're doing. Are they seeing Jesus

through what you're doing? I would hope so because, you know, this whole organization started because

of the Lord. I'm an axon to use me as a vessel. Like I said, he didn't get me answered right away,

but eventually he, he showed me what he wanted me to do. And I've been doing it every day since.

And every ever since that day, I've been doing free loans and I just asked him, I see what you want me

to do. All I ask is Lord, please help provide to this organization. And he has done that since day one.

So I hope they can see the libido of the Lord in me when I'm out there moving loans.

Even when I first started the organization, I wasn't very spiritual, but I knew that in the time of

need, there's only one place you can go and that's, you know, just pray to the Lord and that's

when I ask him to use me as a vessel. And, you know, it's amazing. It's amazing what he has done. You know,

I've seen some things happen and just like, wow, just wow, wow, wow.

Well, let's get to that. Please share some stories of some of the people and communities you and the

kids who've partnered with you have helped. How has it changed lives? And what is your own personal

testimony of how God has worked with you and how you've experienced him personally?

Yeah. So you know, a lot of the kids that they moved for, and the elderly disabled, single parents,

veterans and like just recently, there's a kid named Ken in out in Texas, Midwest City.

He came across an elderly man who's a World War II veteran who just happened to go 100 a few days ago.

And I think a home care worker reached out to his mother because they were hiring

a long care service to move his lawn and they will come every

all the week or something like that. And they were taking advantage of this veteran and they were,

you know, just skimming, skimming his grass and just, you know, taking advantage and

they were charging like $300 a month and, you know, you're a veteran, you're in a fixed income.

That was a lot of money to him. So Ken didn't heard about this gentleman and ever since he's been

moving his lawn for free and they will continue to move the lawn forever until that day comes.

So stories like that, there was a kid named Wesley Yauden, Michigan. He was a very shy,

quiet kid. And mom told me when he first started the organization, but you know, he got to get a chance

to go out in this community and meet different people and help out. And he started to become who he

was supposed to become. And he's, you know, he's open with people. He's friendly. He's talking. So there's,

you know, a lot of stories like that from different kids across the country just wanting to get

out there and make a difference. And they're meeting people. They probably normally wouldn't have met

if they weren't moving these lawns. And they're building long-lasting relationships and they always

check up. Even like the kid, Ken and who I just mentioned, there's one lady that he moves for. You

know, she became like his adopted, adopted a grandmother. They just have a special bond and this

old just came from mom or for me, you know, there's been many people that I've met during my time with

mom or the Wist's lady named Mrs. Gibbs. I probably met her in 2016 when I first started the

organization. And she became like an adopted grandmother to me. And every time I would moan her lawn,

we would sit and chat after I would get done. And we just sit on a porch and talk for hours. And,

you know, she considered me her adopted grandson. And sadly, she passed probably about two years ago.

And that really affected me because we had such a special bond. And there's like, you know, so many

stories like that of different people that I've met personally by doing this. And I also traveled

to all 50 states on different 50 state moving tours that I do. And I've met so many veterans. I've

met so many different people, you know, across my journeys. So these people become family to you.

Yeah. Has it ever united entire communities? Yeah, you could say it has united communities. You see

communities really come out and support the kids especially, you know, every time that I announced

that a kid has completed the 50 yard challenge in a certain area, you know, the community really

backs on that. I've seen like small towns really come out and support kids especially like in Idaho

and Oklahoma. We have a lot of kids in those areas. And every time I say I'm coming to to the state of Iowa

or Idaho or Oklahoma see a kid that finished the challenge, you know, they really come out and support

that kid. So you really see the community back these kids. And one thing I realized that a lot of

kids do after they finished the 50 yard challenge, they are some of them start a business and they become

entrepreneurs, but they still move free loans for those in need. So, you know, I didn't realize that

was something that was happening, but, you know, also created entrepreneurs in a way as well.

Well, that's really powerful. Let's hear some specific stories of the kids that have joined

your program. It was a kid named Andre, you know, he's one of the first kids that start the 50 yard

challenge back in 2016. It just happened, his mother just happened to see me online and see what

we're doing in Huntsville, Alabama. It was Andre and another kid named Quentin. Quentin lived in

Mary, Ohio. He's got Mother Sore, what we're doing in Huntsville, Alabama. And at the same time,

Andre's mother, so we're doing Huntsville, Alabama. And they wanted to get their kids involved with

the program. So that's when I just told them, if your son Andre can complete the 50 yard challenge,

and if your son grants on Quentin to complete the 50 yard challenge, I'll come out there and give

them a brand new more for completing it. Because that first of all was just locally in Huntsville, Alabama.

I didn't really have a tension for it to be out of state. And that summer, in 2016, Andre and Quentin

went on to complete what we call today the 50 yard challenge. And I went out there to them and I

presented them a brand new more. And they were very proud and they were going to continue to help

the community. And ever since, you know, since then, about five thousand plus kids across this country

have signed up for our 50 yard challenge. And, you know, so they were the first two that really

got the bull rolling for our organization in different states. And like I said, it has grown ever

since, we have about five thousand kids spread out the country. There also kids in eight other different

countries that are taking part. So it's not just here in the United States where kids are taking part in

our organization. It's kids around the world that are getting out there and making a difference one

loan at a time. And it's not just lawn mowing. We also include raking leaves and snowshomening as well. So

it's a year-round way for kids to give back to the community. Have you ever run into kids that have

needed a father figure or some sort of a mentor in their life? How has this program provided that

for them? Especially for the kids that came out that come out with me locally to move loans, you know,

a lot of them come from single-parent mother households. So when they can come out and become mentor

them, we can, you know, be that father figure that a lot of them are missing in their lives. So

you see them, you know, really appreciate coming out in a spending time and, you know,

being sure how to use a lot more, you know, someone checking in on them, you know, you see that

it brings a lot of them joy and happiness, you know. I'm not a father myself, but, you know,

too a lot of these kids, you know, they can, they can kind of consider me like a father figure in

their lives. That's amazing. Have you seen some of those kids go on to pay that forward and to become

mentors to somebody else as they develop and grow? Most of the kids locally,

some of them have gone on and become fathers themselves at a young age, but, you know, just to see them grow

up and, you know, take care of responsibilities and be a father to their kids. You know, they do that.

There's another kid locally here named Lamar. He just went off to college and he came from a

single-parent household and, you know, he told me how much

me mentoring him meant to him, you know, so, you know, stories like that always, you know, bring a smile to

me just knowing that I made a difference in Lamar's life. And, you know, he was our first recipient

of our scholarship fund, which we named after Miss Mary Gibbs, who I mentioned a little earlier.

So, you know, yeah, you can say you really had an impact on him. Tell me a little bit more about the

scholarship fund. Yeah, so the scholarship fund was something we started, I believe, this year,

it's in memory of Mrs. Gibbs, who I met, who was at the start of the organization, who became my

adoptive grandmother after all these years of learning her own. I just wanted to

do something special for her and her family after she passed away. And I named our first

ever scholarship fund in her memory. And the goal is to award a thousand-dollar scholarship

to kids in our program that finished a program that are going on to college, so either

they're in their senior year or, you know, they're in their first year of college. We want to help them out

and my goal is to hope that over the next few years, we can keep growing it and growing it.

And we can give even more money out to these kids that take part in our program and want to go

on to college. It doesn't have to be a four-year college. It can be a trade school because, you know,

we need, we also need people to work in different trades. So, that's important as well. So, I tell

kids, if you don't want to go to a four-year college, please consider going to a trade school and

learn a trade because we all need a skill so we can live life. Do you ever think that she could

have imagined the influence that her connection to you would have on future generations?

I do remember she done a video because I was on the Clady Clarks and she'll once. And they wanted

to interview different people that I moved for. I believe her daughter submitted a video.

And she made a nice comment. It was like a 30-second video. And she said,

I really hope that he continues on with this. So, you know, that really touched my heart. So,

I guess you can say that she saw what we were doing and it was very proud of me.

I think she very likely had a vision of its potential. And

because of her relationship with you, she had faith in you. She knew that what you were capable of.

Yes. And I think that it gave her a sense of confidence that possible yet impossible things could

be accomplished through this program. You saw that every time, you know, we have more her lawn and

when the kids will come out with me and mow her lawn, you know, she was very happy to see the kids

probably more than me. You know, she'd like to sit down with them and ask them how their day was

going, how their summer was going. And she really enjoyed that because, you know, she didn't

have too many visitors just her family. So, when the kids can come by and just sit in the porch

and we just talk, you know, it meant a lot to her. Something else that I think is fascinating

about what you're doing. When people are stressed about the necessities of life and you could

consider having keeping up your property as being a necessity, especially in some places where

there are city ordinances or there may be associations that require that and you can be reported if

you're not keeping that up. That's just if you're having trouble making ends meet, you're having trouble

financially, all of these things are adding up. That's stressful on your life and it takes up a lot

of bandwidth emotionally and it makes it very difficult for some people to be focused on connections

with others when they're just stressed about basic things of survival. Yes. And it may be due to

financial reasons that they can't keep up their property. It may be to physical reasons or both.

And so when you're coming in there and you're just taking care of that and you're freeing up

that bandwidth, I imagine you've seen people just become change. They're different people. They

come out of shells and the relationships get formed. I mean, it seems like such a small act,

but man, I can't even imagine the possible impact that it has when that person is freed up.

That little part, they were stressed over is gone. Yeah. You see that a lot because like I said earlier,

a lot of people that we move for the hourly, disabled and the fixed income. So they have to make a

decision, do I get my food and medication or do I pay someone to mo my lawn so I don't get fine by

the city. So when we can come more for free, they freeze them up of so much stress. Stress them.

Oh no, what am I going to do? So when we come more for free, they're now freezing them up and they

can get what's important to them. They can get that medication that they really need. They can get

their food so they can live for that week. So you see that it frees them up, they become

the stress free. So that's the goal. And that's the goal of the organization just to keep continue

to grow because there's so many people living paycheck to paycheck, living on a fixed income that

needs help, you know, they need it. And all goes is to find ways to help them out and expand the

organization and get more kids involved so we can help them. There's another way that you're being

very impactful and you're teaching an important value of looking out for other things to do around

your community and not waiting for the government to come in and provide that solution. A lot of people

think that that's that is the solution all of the time is that the government or some government

agency is supposed to provide services or they're supposed to solve all of the problems of the community.

And while they the government may actually play a role in that and to some degree you're paying

taxes, those taxes should be utilized to do something. But it's it's never going to be enough. It will,

the government will never be able to to provide everything that everyone in a community needs nor was

it designed to people are being taught kids are being taught. Hey, you have energy, you have two

hands, you have two feet. There's a problem over there that needs to be solved that you are able to

solve right now. Yeah. And there is no need to wait on some organization or some government

department to come in here and solve that when you can step in and just take care of it. Take

care of your neighbor, take care of your community. And if we did that, we are lightening the load on

so many other organizations. You're getting the health benefits of good exercise, good mental health

because you're connecting with your community. There's so many residual benefits to what you're doing

that go way beyond just as one simple act that you're doing. Yes, sir. Yes. And we can't like I

said, we can't wait on that government assistance. We have to take that initiative to help our

community because if you wait on the government, you don't know how long it will be waiting for.

So if you see a need, I encourage people to get out there and fulfill that need. And don't worry

about how you're going to fund that because once you start doing the work, the community will support

you so if you can come together as community and help each other, you don't have to worry about

the government because they're going to do so much. You know, we don't we don't need to rely on the

government for every single thing we need to take an initiative and we need to help our own communities

out and we can get the job done faster that way. So I encourage people, you know, see a need,

fulfill that need and get to work, you know, it's important. How can dads listening learn more

about raising men and women, lawn care service? How can they get involved and get their kids involved?

Yeah, so if you want to learn more about our organization, you can go to brrraisingman.com or

raisingman and women.com and you can go in there and simply sign your kids up. With them doing

the 50-year challenge, re-also in Courage, you know, fathers, especially, you know, do the 50-year

challenge along with your kid. That's some special bonding times. There was a grandfather that was

taking part in our 50-year challenge along with his grandkids and he told us doing that whole time

they were doing the 50-year challenge, you know, there's a moment that he cherished because otherwise

those kids would probably be inside playing video games but they were out this time, mowing lawns and

he was showing them how to use a lawnmower. So, you know, I encourage you to do the 50-year challenge

alongside with your kids so you can spend that much needy quality bonding time, special moments

that you can cherish forever. But you can learn about the 50-year challenge on our website at re-arraisingman.com or raisingmanandwomen.com.

If someone in this listening audience would like to support what you're doing financially,

is there a way they can do that? Yeah, so on our website, there's many ways to help and support

the organization by donating. They can donate funds or they can go to our Amazon whistlist. We have

lawnmower, weedies and lures because our f/d-r challenge is set up by the Courage system. Every 10 lawns,

they mow the kids mow, they got a different color t-shirt so they style a white t-shirt. Once they

mow 10, they get an orange, 20-year-uns of green, 30-of-blue, 40-year red, and 50 lawns turns

up black and then once they mow 50, free lawns in the community, we get them a brand new mow, weedied and

blower which come from my Amazon whistlist. So, people go on there and they just buy those items and

they're sent to us and then every time a kid completes the 50-year challenge, I personally get

in my van and I drive for them and they present them these items. So, if they want to learn how to donate,

they can just go to the website and there's many different ways to donate.

Rodney, as we close, what is your challenge to Dad's listening now?

My challenge to you is you know, find a way to make the world a better place. There are so many people

that need help with so many different things. I encourage you to look around your community and if

you see a need, try to fulfill that need. We go all make a difference for me. I've chosen the

lawnmower to make a difference with and encouraging kids. You can find a need in your community and

you can encourage a community support you but get back so just find that need and let's

let's stand together and let's make a difference. Rodney, it has been an honor to hear your story

and for you to come on the program and share what you've done and how you've impacted the community

and how so many others are doing the same. Thank you so much for encouraging Dad's in this audience.

No problem. Thank you guys for having me on today. I really appreciate it.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to

contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more

information about the Fatherhood Challenge. Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

[MUSIC]

This episode is specifically for dads who have kids or work with kids who have trauma, issues, behavior challenges and attachment issues. If you’re looking for help or guidance in these areas, I’ve brought a guest whose approach is rooted in empathy, understanding, and evidence-based techniques, creating a space where parents can learn and grow together.

Ryan North joins me in this episode. Ryan together with his wife are a team who founded One Big Happy Home, a platform that provides valuable resources and support to parents, churches and schools. They also have a passion for working with foster parents because out of their six children, four joined their family through adoption from the foster care system.

You can learn more about Ryan and Kayla North, One Big Happy Home, get coaching, listen to their podcast or sign up for their parenting boot camp at:

https://www.onebighappyhome.com/

Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit: htCreate your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

tps://ingeniusprep.com/get-a-free-consultation/?utm_campaign=2024+Podcast+Email+Marketing&utm_content=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_medium=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_source=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_term=Fatherhood+Podcast

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

Transcription - Wisdom From a Dad of Six

---

This episode is specifically for dads who have kids or work with kids who have trauma issues,

behavioral challenges, and attachment issues.

If you're looking for help or guidance in these areas, I brought a guest whose approach

is rooted in empathy, understanding, and evidence-based techniques.

He will join us in just a moment so don't go anywhere.

Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of this episode and the Fatherhood

Challenge, Ingenious Prep.

Ingenious Prep is the world's premier admissions consulting firm, proud to be officially recognized

as the country's top college admissions consultants, helping students prepare for admissions

to top schools through individualized educational programs that increase chances of admission

by up to 10 times.

Ingenious Prep students work with former admission officers to differentiate themselves

from other competitive students in three areas colleges evaluate students.

In academics, extracurricular activities, and personal characteristics.

Just this past admission cycle, Ingenious Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy

League schools, 268 offers, from top 20 schools, and 904 offers from top 50 schools.

Ingenious Prep students' success lies within the fact that Ingenious Prep is an all-in-one

consulting firm offering every service of family needs, whether it be test prep,

tailored candidacy, building mentorship, academic mentorships, the leadership, and innovation

lab, soft skills courses, writing courses, and other customized programs to develop their

application persona to the most effective and authentic extent to share with colleges.

Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free strategy call with one of Ingenious

Prep's College experts.

Greetings everyone.

Thank you so much for joining me.

My guest is Ryan North.

Ryan and Kayla are a husband and wife team who founded one big, happy home, a platform that

provides valuable resources and support to parents, churches, and schools.

They also have a passion for working with foster parents because out of their six children,

four, joined their family through adoption from one foster care system.

Ryan, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Thanks for having me.

Okay, so this is one of my favorite parts of the program, and that is our traditional

dad joke.

So Ryan, what is your favorite dad joke?

What is a ninja's favorite drink?

Hmm, I know I haven't heard this one before.

What?

It doesn't get more original than that.

I absolutely love that joke.

Let's start with your story about your journey of educating families and caretakers about

trauma, behavior changes, and attachment issues.

And where did you get your journey as a foster parent?

Where does this all fit into your story?

When my wife and I got married and we started discussing, you know, what our family might

look like in the future, it turns out that both of us had a connection through our families

to adoption, foster care.

She had had a grandparent who'd been a foster parent.

She now actually has a cousin who's a foster parent.

And my dad was raised by his aunt and uncle in what we were today called a kinship, a kinship

placement.

Of course, in the mid-1950s, no such term existed, right?

And so he was raised by his aunt and uncle, the only grandparents I have ever known were

his aunt and uncle.

And so that kind of has always been an undercurrent in both of our families.

And so we were pretty pleased to discover in the other person that they had a connection

to adoption, foster care, and it was something that we had both thought about coming to our

marriage.

Before we grew our family, we decided to take a trip to South Africa that's where I'm from.

And we spent three weeks in the country touring around, you know, having my wife meet the family

and thought, you know, that'd be great to make that international trip without any kids.

And so on our last day in Cape Town, we took a boat ride out to Sea of Ireland.

If you want to know what that is, watch the air, jaws, episode of Shark Week.

It's filmed out there.

And on this boat rides about 30 minutes out, 30 minutes back, there's this group of eight

kids from a local orphanage, and all of them had physical handicaps.

And so some kids in wheelchairs, some kids had crutches, some were walking with assistance,

and they had these two ladies who were taking care of these eight kids.

And we were sitting at the back of the boat by these kids, and on the way back, they were

singing these songs.

And they had so much joy.

And from my perspective, I'm like, you're growing up in an orphanage, you have disabilities.

And so from my perspective, and so I think it's always important to realize that our perspective

isn't necessarily the accurate one, at best, it's just the way we view things.

From my perspective, I'm like, if I was in that position, I don't know if I'd be singing,

but these kids have folded some old joy, it moved us so much that actually took out the

camcorder because back then, there were no smartphones.

We got the camcorder and video, these kids singing.

And we got in the car, my wife and I looked at each other and we said, I think we're supposed

to adopt first.

So we came back, got licensed as foster parents, with foster parents about 10 years, at 30

kids throughout home in the 10 years, we have six children, four of those were adopted from

the foster care system and two biome.

So that's our foster care journey.

In the midst early on in that, a book called The Connected Child was published by a Karen

Purvis and Debate Cross.

And TCU had just started developing its TBR protocols.

And so these protocols within transferred and organized and presented in a way that moms

and dads could learn them and do them at home.

When they piloted that program, Kaelin and I were invited to be part of that.

And we got to meet Karen Purvis in the midst of all of that and get to know her and work

with her a little bit.

Our now almost 20 year old daughter was part of a neurotransmitter study.

And so the reason I point that out because we learned these things, they tested all the

chemicals, everything good was too low, everything bad is too high.

And so they asked us to parent her exclusively with these principles in mind for a year.

And we did.

We tested and everything was back in balance.

And so I've seen the data.

I can see on a chemical level, a person changes if you interact with them as a, wow, with

the building, every strong relationship as the primary filter through which you interact

with them.

I've seen that.

So that was really helpful for us to see the data on that.

And so, you know, whether you came to our family through adoption, foster care, or

biologically, everybody's parent are the same at our house.

And so we've seen it work.

And now that the kids are in high school, got it, got one is working, one who just started

college and then a couple in high school, then a couple in middle school.

But the high schoolers recently, and then my 19 year old, both of them recently told

my wife, you know, I'm starting to realize that you guys aren't like other people's parents.

And my wife said, okay, well, what do you mean?

And she said, yeah, my friends' parents are really punitive with them.

They're not really involved.

They're not very interested in them.

So but you guys are different.

And so, you know, if you want to just bless my heart and my wife's heart, tell us that

one because after doing this faithfully for, you know, the last 16 or 17 years now to hear

that our kids say, hey, we feel like our lived experience is different and a better one than

our peers really blesses us because in the midst of all of that, there's no permissive

parenting.

You know, there are boundaries.

There are, there's everything that you might imagine.

But even all of those things are set in the best interests of my child.

And it kind of consequence that is imposed upon them.

So a logical consequence is set with this isn't meant to harm them.

This isn't meant to teach them I mean charge.

This is meant for their formation and growth into the adults they were always supposed

to be.

Most dads, including myself, have been guilty of yelling at their kids because well, our

kids aren't listening.

Are there better ways to get their attention other than yelling?

Yes.

My wife and I, one of the things we tell parents when we were parents is this is one of

our mantras, you have to be the world's leading expert in your children.

And what I mean by that secondarily is you have to be the world's leading experts in each

one of your children because they're individuals, they're different people.

And particularly for for families who are, who have adopted or are currently fostering

or are in the midst of kinship placements, kinships may be a little bit different because,

presumably, a some percentage of the time those kids are biological relatives of yours,

not all the time, but, but a lot of times it is grandma racing, raising your grandkids.

That's a pretty common scenario in kinship.

So there is a little bit of that biological connection.

So you have some insight into their tendencies, but if you're raising kids who were not born

to your family, then, then, then their biological tendencies will not be as obvious as a parent.

So you have to pay attention to your kids like we, we, we teach courses and we have these

parent detective logs that we walk people through.

I think you should have notebooks on your children, you should know, are they mourning

people, are they evening people?

What, what unsettles them?

What, what helps them regulate?

What kind of foods they like?

What are the tendencies in relationship?

All those kinds of things because you have to parent the child you have, not the child you

want.

So that's the basic framework, how, how we approach, how we approach things.

So does that mean that there's some sort of a epigenetic or generational component to

that tendency?

So there's this verse in the gospel, John, so you mentioned epigenetics, right?

So this is verse, so this is verse in the gospel of John, where Jesus says, the son can

do nothing.

He has not yet seen the father did.

Now, now while parenting is not mentioned in that verse, I will tell you that it is the

most condemning piece of parenting I've ever read in the scriptures.

No, it's getting, yes.

Right, I mean, like, let's, let's, let's extrapolate.

The daughter can do nothing.

She has not seen her mother do first.

Right.

And so, so that's, that's troubled me for a long time, that idea.

And so I come from Yellers.

My dad's Yellers, he's for brothers, Yellers, my mother's Yellers, all of her 11 siblings,

Yellers, they married people, Yelled and side-grip in a very loud environment.

My programed response is to, to, to, to Yell.

Well, so a couple of things happened, happened in, um, to help break that habit in me.

Number one is that I reckon that's my, I can recognize that's my condition, response

from my childhood in the family I grew up in.

Number two, my wife and I, um, are believers in the couples should have mentors and

the couples should on occasion go and visit a counselor.

You like, you know, in the same way that you'll take your call for an oil change, I think

you have to think about your relational health in the same way.

We're sitting with this counselor one time and he says to us, Hey, do either of you ever

Yell when the other, like, raise your volume when the other one's talking?

Yes.

Do either of you, uh, interrupt the other one?

Yes.

He said, you know why you do?

And I'm like, um, I mean, I thought because I was just tired of listening or I had

just heard enough that I felt like I had enough information from her that I could counter

it.

And he said, it's because you're trying to assert your dominance.

Right.

That's why you yell over people.

It's an aggressive, um, it's an aggressive way to assert your dominance.

So, so one of the things that we believe in our family is that is that a lot of parenting

is compliance driven.

But, but I don't want compliance.

I mean, I'd like compliance, but, but compliance isn't the goal.

Connections the goal, relationships the goal.

And if we work on that part and people know that the, the, the Jew are kind and welcoming,

like our kids will come and talk to us about stuff that will make, make a lot of people

just freak out.

And we've trained ourselves to, does ourselves to respond with, um, with calmness whenever

anything unsettling is told to us because we recognize that if we don't respond with calmness,

they're not going to come to us.

Well, if you yell, they're pretty quickly going to learn that's not a safe person for me to

speak to.

And so, and so we have trained ourselves because I'm not trying to assert dominance over my

children.

I want my children to know that I'm always on their side and I'm always working for their

good.

And yes, do I raise my voice?

Absolutely.

Would they say, I'll sometimes absolutely.

I'm not trying to tell you I'm betting a thousand.

My betting average is higher than it used to be once I realized why I did that, how it was

impacting my children and then I chose to do it less.

So, so I would assume that some percentage of the people listening to this conversation

have coached sports.

It's whether it would it be, you know, little league youth sports, um, everything, right?

So I coach, I coached a lot of youth soccer in my life, but I also spent eight seasons

as a high school varsity coach, which coach coaching high school boys was one of my favorite

things I ever did because they actually have the physical ability to do the things you're

asking them to do while at the same time having the cognitive ability to understand what you're

asking them to do, right?

In middle school, some of that's colliding, but, but in high school, particularly with the,

you know, the 11th and 12th grade boys, they really are able and as such, their performance

is greatly improved and they're also, uh, the, the games is more fun to watch.

But one thing I learned with coaching high school boys is you have to now back to become

in the league world's leading expert in your child.

You have to become an expert in your players because some kids respond when the coach yells

at them in front of others on the sidelines.

Some kids respond when the coach yells at them in private, some kids respond when coach

looks them in the eye and is calm with his instructions and correction.

Some prefer it if you stand next to them and don't make eye contact.

And so as a coach, I had to learn these things in order to get the best out of my players

or set another way in order to help them reach their potential.

And I think that parenting is a lot of things and one of the things that I firmly believe

it is is helping your kids reach their God-given potential.

And so if, if I can keep my eye on the prize because that's different than I need you to

comply with my wishes and demands in the moment, that will always be that no matter what's

happening in this moment, I always have what's best for you in the future in mind.

Let's talk about attachment issues.

First, what does that even mean?

And what are the signs that somebody or a child has attachment issues?

And what should a dad do to respond to it?

There is a clinical definition of attachment.

But the Ryan definition of attachment is it's a measure of the strength of relationship

between two people.

So there are adult attachment interviews that you can do a full adult attachment interview

that I think is like kind of $3,000 to do that.

Or there are some adult attachment quizzes you can take online and they'll give you some

sort of makeup of your styles.

They're securely attached.

And so we have infant attachment styles and then we have adult attachment styles.

There's one secure style and three insecure styles.

The reason we don't have teen attachment styles is because teenagers based on the enormous

hormonal changes that they're all experiencing going through puberty and then just the years

after puberty.

And then being around people who have the same hormonal things going on at the same time,

they all tend to present with insecure attachment styles because of that.

So we don't measure, we don't measure teen attachment.

But adult attachment is secure means that you are, that's the gift of your childhood or

there is earn secure which means that's the result of the work he did as an adult.

And then there's dismissing entangled which are tied for second place.

There's not, I wouldn't say there's one of those that's better than the other.

Although if you're an entangled person, is it living with a dismissive person, you might

suggest the dismissive is worse and vice versa, but it's not.

And then there is disorganized which is as bad as it sounds.

So what happens is if you have a caregiver that meets your needs, baby cries, adult response,

needs, baby learns that they can adults can be trusted, baby learns that they have, the

voice has power, that's really good.

But there are a lot of kids who are just left in their curbs who are left to cry it out,

which is likely some of the worst parenting advice of the last 50 years in my humble opinion.

Because what it does is it creates an insecure attachment style in the child because the child

learns when I cry for help, nobody comes to help me.

And so what that means is that over time they will not ask for help.

Now here's why that's important because when let's just pretend I have a teenage son, he's

16 years old.

He goes to a party, there is alcohol at this party and he chooses to drink, he chooses to

drink, slash the peer pressure, whatever you want to say, right?

I need him to call me and tell me, Dad, I need you to come get me, I can't drive.

Instead of saying, I can't ask anybody for help, I'm going to drive home intoxicated because

the ramifications for yourself and others is potentially enormous if you get behind

the wheel drunk.

This is why you want to secure attachment style with your child, but I would say that the

easiest way to build that strong secure attachment is just to be kind and meet your children's

needs when they have them.

And so, you know, we learn to, we teach people to say, look, you're a couple of choices, we

got to move forward, you can do A or B. We teach people to say, hey, train your children

to say, I know you asked me for something, but can I ask for something different?

Now at our house, we, we do say, I can't always say yes, but I can't always listen and I will

entertain what you have asked me.

And even in that, they, they feel valued because you listened to their words, right?

In our home, what we have done is we've created an environment where our children know that

their thoughts and feelings matter to their mother and father.

And as a result, they've had enormous positive gains, right?

We can talk about clinical things, we can talk about bubbly, we can talk about all that

stuff, but at the end of the day, the practical application of the things we've learned has

been the most important because they've made positive change in our family.

And so when we speak to any kind of audience, whether it be parents, churches, schools, child

placing, agency, leadership, any of that, you know, we do this confluence of the things

we've learned, the practical application of those things and how we've seen it.

And so we've seen positive change as a result of them.

It really sounds like we're back to the basics of where we started with this conversation.

And that is the relational element, the importance of the relationship.

So if the kids are doing something wrong and they know it's wrong, they know that they

messed up, but they are okay calling you anyway for help.

That is the win.

That is the ultimate win.

What can I give you an example of that?

Yes, yes, please.

So our now 16 year old daughter, when among us was like the trendy game for kids to play

three or four years ago, she was probably a 12 or 13 when this happened.

And so we were not wise in this, in that she, we gave her an iPhone when she was 12.

You know, you can get more lockdown versions of phones for teenagers now.

And this event sort of opened our eyes to that.

So she's playing among us.

And so my wife says, okay, you guys can play that because you know, she's read some of the

things that moms are saying online, online about some of the dangers of it.

And so she says, okay, we can form like a closed group with, with, with our kids, your siblings,

your friends in the neighborhood and some of your cousins.

And so they all agree they set up this group.

They're playing among us together.

Well, that's not good enough for her.

So she wanders off into like the free play internet version of this thing.

And she's a really empathetic person.

And the worst thing that my daughter can imagine is anybody feeling left out.

So she gets a message from a young, I'm going to say young man in air quotes, a middle school

Tina, a middle school girl, having anxiety about feeling left out is likely one of the

most common anxiety triggers in middle school girls, right?

And so, and so he plays in that and he says, well, you know, he's an artist and he doesn't

have any friends.

And so she kind of bites us, oh, I'm so sorry.

And she's really empathetic.

And now she's given him a response.

And this goes back and forth.

And then he asks, well, can they, can they email each other instead of just messaging while

they're playing the game?

She consents to this.

Then he says, can I have your phone number?

I'd like to text you.

And at this point, she now knows that maybe this is a little dodgy, but because of the relationship

we've built, because we have acted in her best interest always.

She comes to me and she says, dad, I need to tell you something I did that I wasn't supposed

to.

I said, all right, baby, what's up?

And she tells the story.

And so I don't chastise her for disobeying us because for me, the one is that she came to

us.

And so I said, okay, baby, give me your phone.

And I go through the phone.

I read the text messages from this person.

I call a friend of mine who lives in New Jersey.

She had worked with an anti-trafficking organization up in the Northeast.

And I said, I said, we need to tell you a story.

And so also our friend Allison.

So we tell her the story and she says to my daughter, that is following the script of grooming young

women to meet so they can be taken and trafficked.

And so this freaks my daughter out rightfully so.

And so I take her phone and I do something that in retrospect, probably was too soon in

this.

I text back and I say, you know, I just, I just feel really lonely.

At home, is there any way we could meet?

And so the communication goes silent.

And so I tell that to my friend Allison and she said, yeah, that's a pretty typical parent

response.

And when they get that, they cut bait and they're done.

But the point of that whole story is that she was being groomed by somebody who, if we had

not found out when she told us, likely in a couple of more communications, he would

have suggested that they meet in the park.

But because we'd worked so hard on the relationship with her and had parented her in a way that she

understood was in her best interest, she came to us when she realized that this was getting

south.

And so I always tell that story as a great reminder of that in the moment, you might not see

the progress that you'd like to see.

And in the moment, the moment may last longer than you want because you're working on

connecting rather than compliance.

But in the long term, you're going to see the results because parenting is some version

of oceans 11.

It's you have to play the long game.

And the moment is not as important as the future.

On your Facebook page, you said that when you welcomed your children that from that day

till their last, you were in this together with them.

Tell me that story of the first time you said that and the scripture reference that inspired

what you said.

So I wrote a book, right?

A devotional.

And so this is actually covered in devotional number one.

When I realized that was a friend of ours who was in a car accident, he was he was T-bone

in an intersection and the force to say, in fact, well, he was actually hospitalized for

several weeks and was in physical therapy for many, many months as a result of this car

accident.

But in the midst of this, before the paramedic survive, he's trapped in the car.

So he's in pain and then the adrenaline is kind of wearing obviously, realizing his pain.

He's feeling claustrophobic.

And on top of that, he can smell fuel.

And so because there is a place in the world called Hollywood, we think that every time there's

a car accident, the car explodes, right?

That's what happens in movies and TV shows.

So he's freaking out.

And the paramedics get there and they're using the jaws of life to pry the car open so they

can extract him.

And one of the five fighters, smashes, was left of the glass in the other door and climbs

into the car with him.

And he says to him, look, I know you're scared.

He said, "Well, those people out there are doing the best they can and they're good at what

they do.

But here's my, here's my promise to you.

I'm not leaving this car until you've left this car."

So we're getting out of this together or we're dying together.

But what happens next will happen to both of us.

And my friend said that he, he was a friend/mentor really because he's probably about 20 years

older than me.

And he said, "When I heard him say that, calmness washed over my spirit.

Because we can do amazing, lead difficult things if we are doing them together."

So I started thinking about that and in the book of Ruth, Naomi says to Ruth, "I will go,

you go, your people are my people, your God is my God and she links their lives together

and that their destiny is now the same from this day forward."

And so we have shift our perspective at this point when this happened to our friend and

he told me the story from, "We didn't welcome our kids into our home.

We climbed into the car with our kids.

We're the firefighter who chose to climb into the car."

And so now that changes my perspective about everything because it means I am here to help

you not that you have to adapt to fit into our home.

How can dads listening learn more about what you're doing, get coaching or listen to

your podcast?

So if you go to onebighappyhome.com and just scroll just a little bit down on the homepage is

a picture of me and Kayla with our tagline.

But just below that, there you can get to the podcast, you can get your coaching, their

stuff working with churches, working with agencies.

And then we also have a dad's group called Foundations in Fatherhood and we run them a couple

of times a year.

So if you scroll down a little bit past those major categories of work you do, there's

like a featured article thing and you can click on that and you can join.

And so we advertise it as a parenting bootcamp meaning that we cover a lot of ground in a

short amount of time.

I'm going to post all of the links in the episode description for your convenience.

So if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com, go to this

episode, look right below the episode description and all of the links mentioned will be posted

there for your convenience.

Well Ryan, as we close, what is your final challenge to dad's listening now?

Number one, be more involved.

Do not reduce yourself to provider, protector and chauffeur like some of us do.

Be present.

Let your wife know that you are her co-parent if you're married.

And let your kids know that you are there for them.

And in the midst of all of that, do the work to figure out why you react the way you

do.

And all of our work, one of our goals is to try to help parents move from reacting to respond.

Instead of being triggered by your reflexes and emotions rather to cognitively respond

from your prefrontal cortex.

But in order to do that, you have to figure out why you do things the way you do.

So ask yourself the hard questions because I promise you, there is great freedom and

growth on the other side of doing the work.

Ryan, I have learned so much from you.

I know the audience has as well.

It's been an honor having you on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Thank you so much for coming on the program.

Well, thanks for reaching out Jonathan.

There's a lot of fun visiting with you.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned

in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.

Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com

[BLANK_AUDIO]

Every man was created with an identity and purpose, that means you. But if life has broken you and robbed you of your identity and purpose, I’m here to tell you that finding this episode is not an accident and that is proof that it’s not too late to find who you are and what you were created for! This is your chance! Listening to this episode is the first step towards wholeness and life changing transformation.

My guest is licensed professional counselor Chris Bruno. Chris is an author of several books and the founder of The Restoration Project. The Restoration Project is all about Rediscovering the man you were made to be, and bringing your restorative presence to your world. And if his name sounds familiar on this program it’s because he’s made an appearance on two other episodes and now I’ve brought him back a 3rd time because his insights are so valuable.

To learn more about The Restoration Project or purchase books visit: https://www.restorationproject.net/

To receive counseling from ReStory visit: https://www.restory.life/

Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit: https://ingeniusprep.com/get-a-free-consultation/?utm_campaign=2024+Podcast+Email+Marketing&utm_content=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_medium=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_source=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_term=Fatherhood+Podcast

Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr

Transcript - Your True Identity and Purpose

---

Every man was created with an identity and purpose.

That means you, but if life has broken you

and robbed you of your identity and purpose,

I'm here to tell you that you are not listening

to this episode by accident, and that is proof

that it's not too late to find out who you are

and what you were created for.

This is your chance.

Listening to this episode is the first step

towards wholeness and life-changing transformation.

I have a guest here who will walk you through the next steps

in just a moment so don't go anywhere.

Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor

of this episode and the Fatherhood Challenge,

ingenious prep.

Ingenious prep is the world's premier admissions consulting

firm, proud to be officially recognized

as the country's top college admissions consultants,

helping students prepare for admissions

to top schools through individualized educational programs

that increase chances of admission by up to 10 times.

ingenious prep students work with former admission officers

to differentiate themselves from other competitive students

in three areas, colleges evaluate students

in academics, extra curricular activities

and personal characteristics.

Just this past admission cycle ingenious prep students

have secured 110 offers from Ivy League schools,

268 offers from top 20 schools and 904 offers

from top 50 schools.

ingenious prep student success lies within the fact

that ingenious prep is an all in one consulting firm

offering every service of family needs,

whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy,

building mentorship, academic mentorships,

the leadership and innovation lab,

soft skills courses, writing courses

and other customized programs to develop their application

persona to the most effective and authentic extent

to share with colleges.

Just click on the link in the episode description

to book a free strategy call with one of ingenious

prep's college experts.

Or you can visit ingeniousprep.com.

That's ingeniousprep.com and let them know

you came from the Fatherhood Challenge.

- Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge,

a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere

to take great pride in their role and a challenge society

to understand how important fathers are

to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.

My guest is licensed professional counselor Chris Bruno.

Chris is an author of several books

that we'll talk about shortly

and he's also the founder of the Restoration Project.

The Restoration Project is all about rediscovering

the man you were made to be

and bringing your restorative presence to the world.

And if his name sounds familiar on this program,

it's because he's made an appearance on two other episodes

and now I've brought him back a third time

just because his insights are so valuable.

Chris, welcome back to the Fatherhood Challenge.

- Man, thank you so much.

It is so good to be back with you again.

- For those hearing your voice for the first time,

please share your story of how you got involved

with restoring men and fathers.

- It was really a personal journey first.

It was part of my own story as I was growing up as a young man.

I was living overseas in international ministry.

I was giving leadership to a team of a bunch of young men.

I was married and then I produced a child of my own,

my own son and it was kind of in that moment of recognizing

like do I have internally everything that is being asked

of me externally?

Do I have the reserves, the sense of identity,

the sense of my well-being, the sense of who I am

to be able to offer leadership and guidance

and to these young men I was working with,

the students I was working with,

and then mostly my own son.

I wanted to make sure that I was the father

that he needed me to be.

And so that's really what began my journey is for me.

And then as I did it, I started to look around

and other guys were like, what are you doing?

How is this like, and really wanted to train myself

and get into the work of helping other guys do this

because I firmly believe that when men are restoring themselves,

I don't wanna stay restored

'cause I don't think it's ever a finished process

here on earth.

But when we are in the process of becoming restorative men,

the world actually shifts and changes.

So that's kinda how I get into it.

It's my own personal journey.

- What is so important about fathers understanding

their identity and purpose?

And how is their story woven into both?

- I believe that for us men, if we are disconnected

and unprepared for the journey of manhood,

then what will end up happening is that we will,

either wander through life, kind of blind,

not knowing what to do, trying to figure it out,

or we will barge through life like a, you know,

bull in a china shop and there will be debris all around us.

Either way, if we are absent or in that case, violent, right?

Then we're not serving the world around us.

We're not actually the men that we were designed to be.

So when men have that sense of identity and purpose,

when men have a sense of like, this is who I am

and this is why I am.

Those two things combined that actually create such

a brilliant impact on the world around us.

Who we are is designed to be part of the greater story

of the world around us.

And, you know, your question is, you know,

how is our story woven into both of those things?

Well, our story is actually the story of our identity

and of our worth, of our purpose, why we're here.

So who we are is written into the code of our being,

into our brains, into our spirit, into our soul.

That is who we were designed to be.

And therefore, as a result, it is the story that,

that we were meant to tell.

The issue is that so much of the world,

broken fallen, you know, that it is impacts us.

And so we come to believe a different story.

We don't believe that we're actually meant to be something

important or have an identity, like I just mentioned.

We start to believe a lesser story, a smaller story,

one that is actually unworthy of us,

but that's the one that we come to believe.

And so the work that I'm all about is helping us

actually return to what I call the first story,

the story where you were designed and intended

in the way that you were instead of the second story,

the one that you've come to believe about yourself

as a result of the tragedies, traumas, brokenness,

relationships that have gone awry,

all the things that have happened in your life

that make you believe something less than.

I like how you talk about your purpose and identity

written as a code into your being, into who you are.

Not even hence, he knew us before we were born.

Scrolls are written about your purpose,

the tears that you would cry and why you would cry them

are all written, one of my favorite,

and I challenge you to go read it for yourself,

but Psalm 139.

- And I love the combination of both identity and purpose,

and because I feel like those are two things

that are very, we send it like,

we tend to separate those into two separate categories,

who am I and what am I supposed to do?

But I actually believe that they're very interwoven

together almost like two sides of the same coin.

And that I love you just referred to Psalm 139,

one of the places I often go in the scriptures

is to Ephesians chapter two,

where Paul is talking about how we are the masterpiece,

the handiwork of God.

- I love that.

- That we are the masterpiece, meaning that in order

for the master to start painting your masterpiece,

he had to know who you were first,

and then he painted that purpose, that identity into you,

and actually the root word there is, is, "Polema,"

he pooted those things into you.

And so when we think about purpose,

well, what is my purpose in life?

What am I supposed to do?

I actually believe every man's purpose is to be a restorative man

in the world that God has placed him.

And that may be like,

occupationally something different from me or you or whoever,

but occupation is not purpose, vocation, voice,

who you are, the Latin root of that is vocare.

Like, what is the voice that you were meant to bring?

That always is to be restorative, partnering with God

in the restoration of the world.

That is his call for all of us.

And your unique placement in wherever you are,

whatever you do, whatever family you have,

you have a purpose,

and that purpose is to be restorative.

The two top enemies of a father believing is shame

and unworthiness.

How does a dadlessity now that is experiencing that shame

and that is keeping them from believing

their true identity and purpose that God created in the meat?

How do they shed that?

Shame is not original.

Sin is original, but shame is not.

That, you know, we talk about in, you know,

that we know that we are fallen beings

as we come into the world as a result of the fall in Genesis

that we are fallen.

We have original sin and yet there is not original shame

that is not part of the story.

We learn shame.

We learn how to be in an experience of shame

because the message of shame is that there is something wrong

with you.

The message of sin is that you've done something wrong,

but the message of shame is that there is something

intrinsically wrong with you.

And that there couldn't be something more anti-biblical than that,

right?

What do we just talk about?

I just mentioned like you are on masterpiece.

There is something about you.

Psalm 139, "The scrolls are more true about you than you're shame."

All of the messages, all of the thinking,

all of who God made you to be,

before you even existed is more true about you than you're shame.

And so the process of shedding shame is a journey.

It is identifying what it is,

is identifying where it showed up.

Shame is always rooted in the context of some broken relationship

because shame is always about the exposure.

I don't want you to see how unworthy I am.

I don't want you to see me for who I really am

because I'm a phager, can reject me.

Shame is a relational concept.

And so to shed shame is to identify the places in your story

where shame first showed up, what relationships it first showed up in,

and what messages shame was telling you.

When you begin to do that deep work of recognizing those things,

then you can begin to unravel the kind of chains that of shame

that have been wrapped around your soul.

But if you're just trying to like break free from shame by mere power and grit,

it just doesn't work.

Because that the power is strong.

It takes a relational context to heal a broken relational context.

Relationships are broken and it takes relationships to heal,

which is why we have a God that is all about pursuit of relationship with us.

He's not about the pursuit of principles and doctrines and rights and wrongs.

He's about the pursuit of connection with us and relationship.

I've referenced you so many times in talking about the generation train

and why it's so important to understand who's on board and why.

I can't do this topic justice the same as hearing it from the source.

So Chris, tell us about the generational train.

The phrases I often say is that trauma is passed down from generation to generation

until someone is brave enough to feel it.

OK.

And it will just continue.

So when I talk about this generational train, it's like you were born

onto an already moving train and the stories that have gone before,

deeply impact who you are today.

Those stories of your family, your mother, your father,

whether they were present or not, whether they were the best parents on the planet

or not every parent along the way was born outside of Eden.

It was not more not perfect.

And so therefore there is some level of imperfection in how they raised you

and how they impacted you.

And some of you are going like, well, I had the best parents on the planet.

I'm like, bless you.

I'm so grateful that that was your story.

And there are still some places where they missed because they're imperfect people.

And some of you listening are like, oh my gosh, I can totally name all the places

where my parents missed.

Well, I want to name like in their parents and their parents and their parents

all of the trauma is passed down from generation to generation

until someone is brave enough to feel it, identify it, name it, work on it.

And basically like stop the train so that some new transformational work can be done

because as a father, your children are born under your train.

And if you want to be a generation changing father,

something has to be done inside of you.

It's not about your, it's not about your, you know, chore chart.

It's not about your discipline plan.

It's about what happens inside of you that makes you a generation changing father.

And the beauty is that, you know, we also have in the scriptures that, you know,

we hear that the curse is passed from generation to generation.

So is the blessing.

So is the blessing.

Okay. And so when it just takes one man, it just takes one man to go like,

okay, I am going to do the deep work onto the family tree that is coming after me.

I'm going to change how this is going because if I can transform the curse

of what I've inherited to the blessing that I can offer, that is going to be

also generation changing.

It will be a totally different generation train.

Now the reality is you're still imperfect.

It's not going to be the perfect train, but you can start to imbue into the narrative,

into the story, into the journey of those coming after you, some things that are

restorative versus destructive.

A dad who chooses to do that work is a dad who's very purposeful about leaving a legacy,

which we're broken record of on this program over and over about leaving a legacy.

And there's a perfect example of what that can look like.

Yeah.

Something that I often think that us men get caught up into is that the legacy that we leave

has nothing to do with your will.

It's nothing to do with how you're going to write your last will and testament.

A lot of people think that the legacy they leave is the business or the house or the bank

account or the 401k or those know legacy has nothing to do with your will.

It has everything to do with the person that you are and the transformation that you've

experienced with and for Jesus onto your children and future generations.

That is the legacy that you leave.

There's a slogan on the restoration project website that says heal your wounds, know your

God, restore your world.

How do those words align with the mission and purpose of a dad?

And how does a father begin achieving those goals?

These are what we call kind of the three waypoints or mile markers on the journey to becoming a

restorative man.

Here I live in Colorado and so we have big giant 14 or 14,000 foot mountains and there are

various waypoints where you know like, okay, I'm making my movement up towards the summit.

So healing your wounds is much of what I just said.

It is attending to the places in your life and in your story where there is some aspect of

tragedy or trauma that needs to be tended to.

There's some kind of broken relationship that needs to be tended to and I don't just mean

like today.

I mean, really the broken relationships of the past are the setup for the broken relationships

of the present.

And so to be doing some healing of your wounding as a boy as a child that needs to be tended

to, if those things are not healed, then you're going to continue to be stuck.

You're going to continue to live out of the brokenness of those wounds until you can

until you can tend to them.

So heal your wounds as the first and then know your God.

Like this is the more that we come to know who he is, the more that we come to know who

we are.

And the more that we actually come to know the masterpiece that he has written, painted,

poeticed into me and you and the next guy and the next person and your wife and your children,

the more that we come to know the masterpiece, the more that we come to know the master.

And so to know your God is to really spend time, space, curiosity, conversation in who is

this God?

Who is this God?

Who before the beginning of time created me and created you and created this world for us?

Who is that God?

And what kinds of false conceptions do I have around who he is?

So many of us have this template of our own father's face that we put onto the face of

God.

And in the failings, the failings of our fathers, we assume are going to also be the failings

of God or at least we act that way, even if we don't say it.

So we absolutely need to know who God is.

And I want to combine the two healing your wounds and knowing your God.

The more that I can recognize the cracks and the crevices of the brokenness in my own life,

the more I can actually invite the healing presence of Jesus into my life, into my story,

into my past, into my brokenness, right?

The more I actually get to experience who this God is because I get to address like,

oh my gosh, I am more broken than I realized or I have more shame or more sin or whatever,

then I realized thanks be to God.

Come to me, father, for, you know, I want to know you.

So healing your wounds is actually part of knowing God and knowing God is actually part

of healing your wounds.

And then the third way point is restore your world.

As I said, every man is meant by God to be a restorative man.

Every single one, we are partners with God.

This goes all the way back to the invitation that God had for Adam and Eve to rule over

the earth to partner with him to bring about goodness on the planet and amongst the people.

And so, so I think restore your world.

We have an option, restore or destroy.

And I would choose restore every day.

And I think people listening would choose restore every day too.

But it takes that intentionality to not just let apathy or, or, you know, anything else

kind of distraction take us away from the intention of God to restore.

We in English, we have the word father is both a noun and a verb.

It is both a noun representing a person.

And it is a verb representing an action.

And so I feel like to father, whether or not you have children, every man is called to

father.

I would equate to father with being a restorative man, bring restoration to everywhere we go.

I had this misconception that we got to sidestep the pain and go around it.

And that was the path towards healing.

And when I finally let God into that part of my life into the painful parts and let him

actually take over the process of healing me.

I discovered that I was wrong about everything.

The pathway to healing is God takes you through the pain, the pain that you want to go around,

the pain that you want to run from is the very thing he takes you through right through

the middle of it.

But the difference is he is your father.

He wants to be your Heavenly Father.

And he is intentional about walking through that pain beside you.

And that is so important because that is exactly where he wants to be in your own life.

He wants you to get used to his presence.

Yes.

Yes.

I, thanks for saying that.

And you know, like which one of us actually does want to walk through a season of pain?

I would say none of us.

And actually not even Jesus, right?

We cannot have resurrection without death.

And we cannot have death without the crucifixion.

And it was Jesus himself who asked, "Bad God, can there be another way?

I don't want to go through this pain."

And yet, you know, the answer was no in order for resurrection to happen.

We have to go, we have to go through the descendant journey down through crucifixion into death

so that the ascendant journey can happen.

There is no bypassing the process of healing or, you know, in this case, resurrection.

It just doesn't happen.

In a book called Brotherhood Primer, a man's guide for turning buddies into brothers.

Why is it so essential for dads to have their true brothers in their lives?

And what is at least one of the steps in your book that a dad must take to gain a true brother

in his life journey?

I firmly believe that we were never meant to a journey this life alone or be father alone.

We were meant to be in the context of community.

We were created by God in the context of relationship.

The father's unspirit said, "Let us make mankind."

And so in the very kind of womb of community, we were created.

And so therefore, like we have this idea now that we're supposed to be these lone-ranger

men and rely on myself and all that.

And the reality is like, "No, that's actually going to work against you.

We have to be in the context of community of a brotherhood."

And I'll hear a lot also from men that, "Well, my wife is my best friend, and I don't need

anybody else."

And on one level, I want to say, like, "I am so grateful that you have such a friendship

inside of your marriage, oh, that all marriages would be that way."

And then the second thing I say, and that is a lot of pressure for your wife to be in

to hold all of the things that you as a man need to navigate through and talk through

and wonder about.

Like, that is a lot of pressure on her.

So a brotherhood of men is a necessity for every man.

And it is, oh, like, loneliness and isolation are the two greatest epidemics amongst men

of our day.

And so we have to address the building of community.

And so I wrote the brotherhood primer because it's called a primer because it really is just

meant to prime the pump, get things going, get moving in this.

And it walks through how to ask other men to be part of a brotherhood, a small group with

you, a small group of deeper friends that it walks through.

How do you get past just kind of talking about general everyday thing, like, you know, the

sports game or the, what the pastor said in his sermon or what's happening in politics or

what do you think about the weather today?

Like, how do you get past all those things to the actual grit and text of life, which is

our stories?

And to get into sharing and understanding and listening and receiving and interacting

around our stories, that's the process that takes you from a buddy just, you know, hang

him out, fish in, hunt and buddy or whatever, watching the game buddy to a brother, which

is such a different experience, somebody who's deep in your life and in your story.

So for a dad, I would say like if you are alone in the following journey, a lot of guys will

laugh.

That's why I'm laughing now when I say this because you actually have to just go out and

ask another man on a date, just like you would go ask a woman on a date.

You got to be like, hey, I like you.

There's something in you and what I watch, I see, you know, that, that I like and I want

to get to know you better.

Can we go hang out?

Can we have coffee?

Can we go, you know, grab a drink?

Whatever it is, can we go hike?

Just ask another guy to go out and do something together with you and maybe two or three and

be real intentional about like, hey, I need other men in my life and I want there to be other

men, not just for my sake, but for my wife's sake and for my kids sake.

I want there to be other men speaking into into my general life.

And would you be interested in that?

The other piece that I would say is I think in the world of men, particularly Christian

men, we have lost the sense of what actual accountability is.

I think so much of what we believe accountability is in these kinds of groups is that if I'm

going to hold you accountable, that means that I'm going to ask you about your sin.

And I'm going to make sure I'm going to keep you, it's more of a sin management project.

Accountability actually in my mind is not about your sin, but about that masterpiece within

you, the man that God designed you to be, the one that's being called fourth.

So rather, you know, yes, we may talk about the sin, but that's not the primary focus.

It's like, and who are you becoming today?

And how are you growing today?

What is happening in your life today?

What is challenging you today?

And how are you seeing God show up in the healing your wounds journey that you're that

we're all on together?

I'd like for us both to speak to that dad who's either facing the last child leaving the

home or the last child has already left the home.

Is this the end?

What's next?

In two days, my wife and I actually take our youngest off to college.

We're going to be moving her in to her dorm on on Wednesday.

So this week, just two days from now, so it's right now for me, I am facing that I've already

launched to and this is our last.

So in just a few days, we will be official empty nesters.

It is, let's say a couple of things here first, it is not the end.

It is just different.

You will and forever be your child's father.

And what they need from you now is different than what they needed when they were five or

ten or fifteen.

You know, it's something completely different.

And some of the work that we do actually at Restoration Project is we have an entire experience

that we run for dads of older kids who are on the brink on the precipice of launching.

We have an entire experience where we take you overseas and to give you kind of a wow

experience together, but also in the midst of that, we're talking about what do we need

to do to kind of clear the air from the past and prepare for the future.

How do we move that child into less of a child and more into an adult and now rather

than a father child experience, now you have a like a pure experience with the other.

You'll always have that role in their lives and they may always come to you.

But now your adult adult, you're not adult child and that actually has to, you have to do

some work in that space as a father to prepare for that.

And in the child, if that doesn't happen, then either the child will feel like, am I

considered an adult now?

Like what does this look like?

Can I participate in the adult things?

And you know, or not?

Or they'll go somewhere else to try to find it.

So it's not the end.

It is just different.

It is just different.

And with my two other adult children right now, there is less than I need to do for them

on, like I said, when they were five, and more around my availability, am I available

to listen?

Am I available to just be with?

Am I available to have empathy and compassion and some curiosity around what's going on?

I think one of the defaults of us men is that we default into giving advice.

And I do not give advice to my children unless I am specifically asked for advice.

Most of the time what our adult children need from us is our presence, not our advice.

They just need to know that there is someone my favorite four words in this space, bigger,

stronger, kinder, wiser.

Bigger, stronger, wider, kinder, wiser.

They need to know that they have a space to come back to.

And that space is not like our actual living room or, you know, some place that we can go

sit.

It's an emotional, relational space that they can come back to with me and know that there

is someone who is bigger, stronger, wiser, kinder, that will be present to them, listen to

them, care for them, offer them just some compassion for what they're going through.

And then if asked, offer them some advice because we've walked this journey before.

We've gotten our first mortgage, we've opened our first credit card, we've moved and taken

our first job, we've negotiated jobs, we've negotiated, we've gotten married, like all that

kind of stuff we've done before.

And so there may be some advice that we can give, but by and large as they are walking

through it, how they walk through it is going to be different from how you walk through

it, but by and large they mean you present and your face and your eyes more than they need

your words.

And you've also written a book called Sage.

And Sage to me takes that, takes your role outside of just parenthood, outside of just, you

finished off your kids and they're, they're now ready for adulthood and it answers so many

questions about that, what's next?

What, where does my life go from here?

I've raised my kids, now what is my purpose?

In Sage, what I talk about, it's kind of a partnered book with my first book, Manmaker

Project.

Manmaker Project was all about the first right of passage that a boy goes through to become

a man.

And it was written for fathers to help dads guide their sons through the journey of becoming

a man.

But I labeled it as the first passage, right, from boy to man.

The way that I talk about Sage is that it's the second passage.

And it's one that most men don't realize is actually part of our journey as men.

We assume that once you go from boy to man, then you just stay a man, the rest of your life.

Well there's actually another season after, as you just mentioned, after your kids launch,

after some things are happening, you know, in your life, maybe you're, you're looking

at stepping out of the role that you're in at work or in your ministry or whatever it is,

or maybe you're looking at retirement or maybe you're looking at an empty home now, like

that kind of thing.

What is next, the sage journey is that second passage from man into sage where you are

recognizing like something inside of you now is settling.

But the energy that you needed to father your kids back, you know, five years ago is still

inside of you, but it needs to be applied differently into, into the world, into further

healing in your own life, into the world around you, your church, your ministry, your, your

small group, your, your family.

There is still something really important in, in becoming a sage.

And I'll just say this, right, not every man becomes an elder.

Every man becomes elderly, but not every man becomes an elder.

And it actually is, and it don't mean like the elder role in a church.

I mean, the elder of a society, the elder of a family, the elder that has that gravitas

of presence that feels safe and secure and grounding, that actually is what I mean by

sage.

So that's what's next.

Maybe you're going to retire.

Maybe you're going to, you know, quit work and go on and get the benefits that you've been

working for.

I'm not talking about retirement.

Go play golf.

It's fine.

Go play golf.

But so many men just let that be the thing that they are.

They become a golfer.

They don't become a sage.

And I feel like, you know, there are plenty of sages who golf.

So, you know, I just use that as an example, but I would love to see a generation of men

who are intentional being restorative men in their 20s, in their 30s, in their 40s, in their

50s, in their 60s.

And the sage is the one that is hitting that second half of life.

This is what it looks like to be a restorative man who has a few years under his belt.

Chris, how can dads get a hold of you for help or to learn more about what you're doing

or to purchase any of your books?

All the books are on Amazon.

So if you want to hop on Amazon, you can do that just search for Chris Bruno just heads up.

There is another Chris Bruno.

Great man.

I've met him.

Talk to him.

But he writes some other books to some theological books.

And so look for Chris Bruno Sage or Chris Bruno Manmaker project.

Chris Bruno Brotherhood primer and those will all come up on Amazon.

You can also visit the Restoration Project website, which is restorationproject.net.

Or if you're looking to do a little bit more on the deeper end of some personal work, I

also give leadership to a Restorey counseling, which is a counseling center here in Northern

Colorado.

But you don't have to live in Northern Colorado.

You can live anywhere in the world and we can come alongside of you.

So check us out at Restorey.life.

Just to make things easier, if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com.

If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.

I'll have all of the links that Chris just mentioned posted there for your convenience.

As we close, what is your challenge to dad's listening now?

It's never too early and it's never too late.

So it's never too early.

Even if you don't have kids yet, it's never too early to tend to the parts of your life

that need to be tended to.

Your story, your wounds, the broken relationships, all the things we've talked about in this

episode.

It's never too early to do this work.

I think some of one of my favorite men that I got to work with one-on-one was a 21-year-old,

young man who was preparing for his future.

He had not even met the woman he wanted to marry yet because he wanted to do some restoration

in his life.

So it's never too early.

Did you guys have never too late?

It is never too late.

I literally just a couple of weeks ago did some work with an 85-year-old who was wanting

to do some work in life, in story and family and transformation and healing and all that.

And also some work around just like how he had fathered his family and wanting to heal

some of the things of what he had done in his life towards his kids.

So it's never too early and it's never too late.

The question is not when but if you're going to do it.

And I just want to say please do it.

Please do it for the kingdom of God and especially for the little kingdom that is about you.

Amen.

Please take it.

Chris, thank you so much for coming back to the Fatherhood challenge.

It has been absolutely an honor having you here.

Thank you for sharing all of the wisdom and knowledge with us and bringing so much hope

into the lives of so many dads.

Absolutely.

Thanks so much for having me back on the show.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned

in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.

Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

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