Duncan Greive is joined by two of New Zealand's most successful Substackers in Bernard Hickey (The Kākā) and Lucy Blakiston (Shit You Should Care About) on stage in Wellington as part of the Fringe Festival. They explore the origin stories of their brands, while delving deep into their relationship with institutional media and the different incentives of a paying audience versus advertising.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices