Today’s podcast episode features a conversation between Sarah and someone who is not actually a former lawyer. Tiffany Rogers is a therapist based in Chicago. She specializes in working with women in the corporate world, specifically Black women. With so much discussion about therapy on many podcast episodes, it’s great to feature a conversation with someone in that field.

See show notes at formerlawyer.com/238

In today’s podcast episode, Sarah shares the hardest thing about leaving the law. She’s talked to many clients, peers, podcast guests, and people in her life; everyone encounters their own unique obstacles. However, the biggest thing keeping people from making a change is the practical reality. 

Lawyers get stuck trying to figure out things on the front end, like reworking resumes or convincing someone they can work in a role other than a lawyer. People get stuck in the process of the practical things that get you a new job. This is the part that many assume will be the most challenging.  

However, Sarah has found that the hardest thing about leaving the law is the emotional part.

See show notes at formerlawyer.com/237

In today’s podcast episode, Sarah is chatting with Kelcey Baker, a returning guest.

Their conversation reviews why it isn’t normal to want a break from work so bad that you think about getting hit by a bus. Yes, that’s a common expression within lawyer networks.

There is a trigger warning because the conversation dives into narcissism, abuse, self-harm, and suicidal thoughts. It’s an important discussion if you’ve ever had thoughts like this flash through your mind.

See show notes at formerlawyer.com/236

In today’s episode, Sarah offers important advice to listeners. While practicing law, she constantly thought about what she wanted to do outside the law. But then her brain would start telling her everything that would make it a bad fit and instantly become negative.

Lawyers are just trained to do this, and it’s important that you recognize that ahead of time.

Stop telling yourself that something isn’t going to work before you’ve actually spent any time looking into it. People start worrying about finances and skills they don’t think they have, and begin convincing themselves that it’s a bad idea.

Sarah calls this “Lawyering yourself.” You take an idea and then prematurely decide it’s impossible. 

See show notes at formerlawyer.com/235

Today’s podcast episode features a conversation between Sarah and Andre Ferrari. He practiced law for a few years before becoming a real estate developer.

Andre shares his career path and how he got to where he is today. It’s interesting to see how interested he’s always been in real estate and how that’s helped him transition between multiple roles. 

Let’s dive into Andre’s story and advice.

See show notes at formerlawyer.com/234

Summer has arrived! On today’s podcast, Sarah asks listeners the question, “How many vacations does your job have to ruin, cancel, impinge upon, or maybe make you not even plan before you decide enough is enough?” Many lawyers struggle to take vacations, and when they do, it’s a challenge to shut off work and enjoy themselves. 

So many of the people Sarah speaks to face this challenge. They might travel somewhere new but feel like they are expected to remain connected and available to people at work. She knew there were partners senior to her who would go on vacation but still work six hours. If you love working on vacation, that’s great, but for most people, that’s not the case.

See show notes at formerlawyer.com/233

Today’s podcast episode features another conversation with previous guest Annie Little. Sarah is chatting with her about thoughts and advice when it comes to finding a therapist as a lawyer.

They discuss the differences between Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and share their experiences and observations.

If you have been thinking about seeking out a therapist or have experienced this process, this conversation will be helpful.

See show notes at formerlawyer.com/232

In today’s podcast, Sarah discusses how to know when it’s the right time to leave law. Many people listening are grappling with this question, and often, when they ask it, they are looking for an external answer. There is no external answer. You are the only person that can decide when the time is right.

The reality is that you need to ask yourself two questions to know if now is the right time for YOU to leave the law.

See show notes at formerlawyer.com/231

Today’s podcast episode features a returning guest, Kelcey Baker, talking to Sarah. There is a content warning because they are discussing a recent story about a junior Biglaw partner in the UK passing away during an acute mental health episode.

They discuss mental health issues and suicide. The story is important because it highlights some of the issues seen within the legal profession and helps others feel seen, so let’s dive in.

See show notes at formerlawyer.com/230

Today’s podcast episode is an important reminder every lawyer needs to hear.

Sarah reminds listeners that nothing about your job is as important as you and your emotional, mental, and physical health. For lawyers, it’s easy to feel their value as human beings is basically in job performance. 

It’s tough for lawyers to feel like they exist outside the lawyer bubble. Working a lot and being chronically sleep-deprived keeps your nervous system in a state that makes it hard to maintain perspective.

The systems are designed to cause you to lose perspective, especially in large firms. The system benefits when you are all caught up in your own performance for the organization.

See show notes at formerlawyer.com/229