The Grenfell Tower Inquiry Podcast

This week the Inquiry heard from inside Whitehall, as two civil servants, Bob Ledsome and Anthony Burd, gave evidence. It was revealed that the All-Party Parliamentary Group on fire safety chased housing ministers 16 times about a promised revision to the building regulation guidance. And we heard about a briefing that was prepared a few days after the Grenfell Tower Fire, which described the department’s correspondence with this group as “appalling, delayed, partial and looks chaotic”.

This week, the Inquiry heard from Debbie Smith, a senior figure in the Building Research Establishment for more than 34 years. She failed to speak up at a meeting with the government two days after the Grenfell Tower fire about the “immediate and present risk to life” ACM panels on buildings over 18 metres presented. And there was a significant milestone, as Anthony Burd, a former senior civil servant, became the first government figure to appear.

This week the Inquiry heard that cladding similar to that installed on Grenfell Tower underwent a “catastrophic” fire test 16 years earlier. Sarah Colwell, Director of Fire Suppression Testing and Certification for the Building Research Establishment (BRE), described the speed of flame spread as “shocking”. We also heard that the BRE failed to alert the industry about widespread and potentially dangerous misinterpretations of building regulation guidance.

Presenter: Kate Lamble

This week, David Crowder, former Head of Investigation at the Building Research Establishment, told the Inquiry that an investigation into the Lakanal House fire in 2009, was shut down by the Government although it was “fundamentally incomplete”. David Metcalf, the Director of Window and Cladding Technology, explained how confusion over the use of the word “filler” in building regulation guidance created a “huge problem”, with insulation materials not meeting standards of limited combustibility. The Inquiry also heard from Lorraine Turner, Accreditation Director at United Kingdom Accreditation Service (UKAS), who acknowledged there were shortcomings in UKAS’ assessments of bodies within the construction industry.

This week, the Inquiry heard how the National House Building Council (NHBC) approved Kingspan’s combustible cladding insulation for many years. John Lewis, a fire engineer at the NHBC, admitted that a desire to collaborate with industry was a “corrupting” influence on their actions. It was also revealed that two days after the Grenfell fire, a senior civil servant asked the NHBC to support in public the government’s assertion that Grenfell Tower’s cladding was not permitted in the UK. Diane Marshall, who held final responsibility for approving building materials at NHBC, repeatedly defended the institution’s actions.

Presenter: Kate Lamble

Producer: Nathan Gower

Researcher: Ben Henderson

Studio Mix: Gareth Jones

Editor: Hugh Levinson

This week we heard closing statements for two modules of the inquiry on firefighting. Lawyers for the London Fire Brigade (LFB) and those representing the Bereaved, Survivors, and Residents (BSRs) strongly disagreed over the responsibility of the LFB for the failure to arrange an early evacuation of Grenfell Tower. The lawyer representing one of the BSR groups, Leslie Thomas, proposed a “Hillsborough Law” to require a duty of candour from those giving evidence. We interviewed Pete Weatherby QC, who represented BSRs during the first phase of the Grenfell Inquiry, and worked on the Hillsborough disaster inquest.

Presenter: Kate Lamble

Producers: Sharon Hemans, Nathan Gower

Researcher: Ben Henderson

Studio Mix: Gareth Jones

Editor: Hugh Levinson

This week the Inquiry questioned representatives from both the National House Building Council and Local Authority Building Control about the steps they took to restrict or approve the use of combustible materials in the years before the Grenfell Tower fire. Steve Evans, an NHBC manager, was warned at a conference 18 months before the Grenfell fire about the dangers of the combustible cladding which would eventually be installed on the tower. The former Technical Sales Director of the LABC, David Ewing, told the inquiry the company was gamed and played by insulation manufacturers.

Presenter: Kate Lamble

This week the Inquiry turned its attention to how building regulations were set and combustible materials tested and certified. Lawyers for the bereaved, survivors, and residents accused the government of concealing crucial information from previous fires, and industry bodies of knowingly approving unsafe building materials. Barry Turner, the former Director of Technical Policy at the Local Authority Building Control (LABC), agreed that his organisation’s close relationship with insulation manufacturer, Kingspan, affected their response when questions were raised about the fire performance of Kingspan’s K15 insulation.

Presenter: Kate Lamble

Andy Roe, Commissioner of the London Fire Brigade, made a series of frank admissions this week. He said the LFB was aware of every single problem that contributed to the Grenfell Tower fire in advance of the night. A former LFB Commissioner, Ron Dobson, also gave evidence. He answered questions on why some of the recommendations that the Brigade committed to after the 2009 Lakanal House fire weren’t addressed.

Presenter: Kate Lamble

Producers: Sharon Hemans, Nathan Gower

Researcher: Ben Henderson

Studio Mix: Gareth Jones

Editor: Hugh Levinson

This week evidence was presented by former London Fire Brigade Commissioner Dany Cotton, who previously told the Inquiry that the LFB could not have prepared for a fire like Grenfell Tower. This time, she conceded that in the years leading up to the fire, the LFB failed to take on board national guidance that warned how combustible cladding could lead to rapid fire spread, as it did at Grenfell. Evidence was also provided by another former LFB Commissioner, Ron Dobson. We heard how LFB Incident Commander training fell short of commitments they made in light of the 2009 Lakanal House fire. David Brown, former LFB Director of Operations, continued his evidence from last week covering the training of Control Room staff.

Presenter: Kate Lamble

Producers: Sharon Hemans, Nathan Gower

Researcher: Ben Henderson

Studio Mix: Gareth Jones

Editor: Hugh Levinson