The Hold Room

Steve oversees the development and operations of the concessions program at Midway in Chicago. He talks about the impacts and changes in the concessions industry relating to new technology and how to make the entire passenger experience a more seamless process.

The Hold Room, Episode 15

Transcript

[Introduction]

TJ: Welcome to The Hold Room with ACC: a quick update on all things relating to airport development as well as the Airport Consultants Council.

Wendy: This episode is part of a New Passenger Experience series hosted by ACC’s Terminal and Facilities Committee. In this series, we are collecting the experiences and perspectives of different types of users of the airport passenger terminal, including: business travelers; leisure travelers; airport executives; airport, airline, TSA, and concessions staff; and airport consultant staff, to name a few. For more information on this series and the hosts, go back and give the first episode a listen to.

Wendy: In the Hold Room today with Max and Neil is Steve Ogo. Listen to what Steve has to say about how the pandemic has affected the concession industry and what additional changes lie ahead.

[Interview]

Max: Hi everyone, welcome back to the whole room. We've got Steve Ogo here. So welcome to the hold room, Steve. Could you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Steve: Thank you glad to be here. I am from Midway Partnership which oversees the development and operation of the concessions program in Midway airports in Chicago, IL.

Max: Awesome, so first question that we have for you is: how is the pandemic affected you, either in your job or in your travel experience?

Steve: It's definitely impacted us within our job here in the airport World. Travel came to an immediate stop and in a concession program within an airport that's pretty heavily affected by the number of passengers coming through the building. So, a lot of pivoting and trying to figure out how to make sure that everybody can stay in business happened early on and then adapting to new operations as we learned more about the pandemic and how it spread changed how we actually operated restaurant and retail units as well. So, I would say the entire job really changed overnight.

Max: What were some of the key changes that you saw?

Steve: Early on, when travel really slowed down significantly, restaurants and retail units were trying to figure out what they needed to do to survive and figure out how long this was going to go on so early on it was meeting with leaders of the businesses to try to figure out how we can best support them. Make sure that their business stays viable and that they're here for the long run, which is important to us. As the pandemic went on and we learned how to operate within some new operational processes and procedures and things like that, where social distancing became important and spacing people out differently and self-serve became something that you didn't do anymore. We helped them adapt the business and work with the local governing officials and things like that to make sure that things went smoothly. And now in the present time, labor is a pretty significant issue for us and trying to find enough people to work in the airport and travel was coming back rapidly, and we know that we need to get our units open quicker and with more hours of operation and working side by side with both the City of Chicago and with the operators to try to provide the best travel experience possible in the airport while we navigate this is really our key focus right now.

Neil: Can you explain to me who's immediately responsible for the actions at ground level? So like let's say if a worker at one of the restaurants isn't being particularly cautious with social distancing and things like that. Does that reach you or do you rent out the space to franchisees? And it's kind of their problem? Where does that responsibility lie, yeah?

Steve: Yeah, so I guess the disclaimer is it's going to be probably different in every airport or midway the way that our concession agreement is set up, the city is our client and we sublease space to the operators through a couple of different vehicles. As a result, the first point of contact is going to be the operator themselves. Making sure that they're holding themselves compliant to whatever guidance or regulations were put in place so things like face masks, making sure everybody is wearing it properly, first point of contact is the operator. If the operator is being negligent then that would land on my team's plate. It is our responsibility to make sure that concessions program as a whole is compliant in every aspect of the business.

Neil: And overall, how did you find the operators adapting to “the new normal” or whatever you want to call it the operating world?

Steve: From an optics standpoint and just following safety procedures, they adapted very, very quickly because everybody wants to provide a safe work environment. They understand if passengers feel safe, they're going to be more likely to buy, so they did a really good job adapting as CDC and who and everyone else updated their guidelines throughout the course of the pandemic and I would say the bigger challenges were trying to assess, particularly early on how long was this going to last? You know, in March of 2020 there was a point in time where we thought, ‘OK, this is probably a few weeks’ and we'll figure it out and operate in a new way. And as weeks turned into months, it became pretty clear that more substantial strategies needed to be put in place to make sure they could run as efficiently as possible, so I think that's where it started to get a little bit more complicated.

Neil: I'm curious as well. Did you encounter any issues with supply chain?

Steve: Yeah, early on it was absolutely about trying to figure out how we could get enough sanitizer where we needed to place it for the traveling public as well as the employee base. We were working hand in hand across all the operations in the airport so all the vendors were struggling with that and we got together on phone calls with key stakeholders and with the city to try to determine how to share resources and make sure that across the airport everyone was taken care of and was able to comply with whatever the guidelines were at the time, so that was definitely a concern early on. And then as the business started to come back a little bit, we definitely had spots of production issues. Whether it was in retail, where they had trouble, you know, boats were literally being held at port, so getting really creative with how to be in stock with the right items and then with food and beverage. Key products over time had different shortages. The way Midway is set up, we have a couple of organizations that we lean on pretty heavily with commissaries and things like that. That helped us get through that a little bit more smoothly than if it was just an individual business trying to figure it out, but definitely had challenges throughout the way.

Max: You talked about how a lot of the concessionaires developed strategies to adapt to the new regulations or to the evolving conditions. Do you think any of these strategies are going to stick once a lot of this recedes?

Steve: I think some of the customer facing things will stick so things like touchless pay QR codes. I mean you saw those blow up everywhere. A lot of uses for those, I think some of that technology is going to stay. We actually have a store called Hudson Non-Stop that leverages Amazon GO technology. That was something that got fast tracked through this process and it was already underway, but customers can enter with a credit card. They pay for what they want and they just literally leave the store and they're automatically charged. No spatial interaction with employees, so employees jobs are kind of shifted to more value added activities which helps the customer experience as well. So, I think there's going to be some things like that that not only stick around, but probably we'll see some good traction on that. Pre-pandemic some of those things were having trouble getting traction, I think. Something like the Amazon GO technology would have happened regardless, but things like QR code, wayfinding, being able to place an order on your phone and have it delivered to you some of those things in airports were ideas that were being explored pretty heavily, but were not making very much headway. During the pandemic you saw at your gate and grab and some businesses like that really expand rapidly due to the need for that technology.

Neil: In a lot of these interviews that I've been privy to as well, it seems like most of the changes that are sticking around our technology lead. It seems to be that there is an overall caution around: Well, we've implemented this technology now and now it's kind of an expectation as opposed to like a nice to have or a benefit. At the airport you mentioned, like, at various times there was shortages on various different items. Was that down to trends and what passengers were looking for was changing like what items were selling? Or was it just surely just down to supply and demand for those items?

Steve: Yeah, it's probably a combination of those things so early in the pandemic as people began to travel again, there was still a resistance to getting in line and ordering food that was made for you. We definitely saw an impact to the quick serve or the sit-down experience. Sit down experience virtually went away. Most restaurants adapted to a quick serve model even in their sit-down restaurant. Some of the shifts that restaurants had to make were in limiting their menus so that it was more efficient, they didn't need as many cooks to do it. Supply chain, obviously those issues being able to have a more limited menu helped with that as well, so some of those shifts kind of probably magnified that issue a little bit as well. The grab and go in convenience stores picked up. Really to your point, when you see a shift of the demand and product shifting, being able to keep up with that rise in demand with convenience stores grab and go. In many cases outpaced 2019 pre-pandemic levels during, I wouldn't say the height of the pandemic, but as it started coming back slowly and it was significantly off of 2019 travel volume. Some of those products were actually outpacing pre pandemic levels. That was definitely a driving force behind some of it being able to rapidly change your mix. But we did have some key sourcing issues as well in some of the product, particularly on the retail side where orders were literally being held at ports and their working with inventory that's in their warehouse trying to distribute and figure out where needs to go. I think there were some actual supply chain issues involved with that as well.

Max: So changing topics a little bit, if you could make one suggestion for improving the passenger experience, what would it?

Steve: Coming from an operations perspective, particularly focused on concessions, one of the things that we really try to focus on is about the passenger experience from when they leave their front door to when they get to the gate. And for us it's challenging 'cause we have to gather a lot of stakeholders together to try to make some of these changes or impacts trying to figure out how do you make that journey as seamless as possible. In Midway we're very fortunate that Southwest manages most of the traffic, so they're obviously very customer centric and they focus on that same journey and within their app they have the Lyft app so that you can easily get a car from your house to the airport and then us partnering with them very closely allows them to have a relatively smooth journey once they get through security and things like that. But I think in terms of investing or innovation, things that are aimed at improving a seamless experience, there are probably the most helpful in terms of the passenger experience. You know it's a stressful experience. You know this might be we're going to get me there in time. They have to go through security and you feel like you're being judged and searched. There's a lot of factors that add to anxiety when people travel, and we know that if we can lower that level of anxiety, give them a little bit more time to experience the airport, provide a good experience when they get to the airport, that whole experience can go much better and it definitely helps in terms of gaining new customers and retaining the customers that you get.

Max: Where do you think there could be an opportunity to enter into that segment that doesn't even touch the airport? Getting from the house to the front door of the terminal. Is there an opportunity there?

Steve: One thing that we've put in place that we mentioned a little bit about previously is the ordering from your phone. So with this technology out there now where you can literally pull up all the menus from your phone. Take a virtual walk around the airport to see what's there. Place an order and either pick it up when you get there or have it delivered to you provides a lot of opportunity for some creativity there, I think, and so it's about figuring out how do we work with our stakeholders better to make sure that the customer knows about that option and that it's easy to use and fluid and that they get a great product at the end. So there's obviously some hurdles in there to make that actually happen, but I think in terms of the concession space, that's a pretty big opportunity that we can explore and do some new thing.

Max: I could very easily imagine like 3 hours before my departure, the Southwest app just pinging me saying want to order your food now, and perhaps by that point I haven't even left my house, so I think that's a great option for something like that into the future.

Steve: Absolutely, yeah.

Neil: So many of our listeners are engineers, architects, or planners who are involved in creating the shelf space at an airport. Is there anything you can provide as feedback to these experts that might help you provide a better concessions experience to passengers?

Steve: In terms of the shell space, the layout obviously tremendously affects the passenger experience. Little things like where the elevators are in escalators and how easily it is to figure out where my journey goes through the building. Those are things that impact the experience quite a bit. And then beyond the shell, I guess the way the interior of the building is laid out to encourage dwell time. That's a big thing for the concession program, in particular, for a concession program to provide a great experience to a customer, there has to be ways that naturally cause people to slow down a little bit enjoy the space, provide enough space to create something that's unique and interesting to the customer, and that's where our part comes in to create that space within the building. But from the initial design, really thinking through how a customer would experience their path, I think is pretty important to the experience.

Most concession programs were built pre 9/11 as well. So, there's a lot of things security wise that have been put in place that make the space not work very well. So, I just think there's a lot of current thinking that needs to probably go into how things are laid out.

Neil: Is there any airports you've gone through recently and I guess we should turn recently as the last two years at this point that you've gone through and you'd be like: we gotta steal that. I want that for my airport.

Steve: I'll make a plug, I guess. The company I work for is wrapping up the redevelopment over in La Guardia Terminal B. And I would say they've done a really nice job in terms of creating a space that people want to go to that they can spend some time and enjoy everything from art features to how you navigate through the building and where things are located. They put a lot of thought into that and it's definitely modern time, modern technology thinking in terms of the design, so little selfish plug there I suppose. I believe we're going to see more and more things like that though as contracts are coming up and people are, you know, looking to redesign airports. I know Kansas City is one of those that's doing a great job right now redesigning there's. That was definitely a design that was pre a lot of things, including 9/11. It was state of the art at the time I think when it was developed. But it's due for refresh for sure.

Neil: The one thing that I find interesting about the group you work under, Steve, is that you're essentially a private organization. So, you seem to be far more willing to take innovation chances than a lot of airports who are ultimately just responsible for the local transportation authority or the municipality or the city. And it's very challenging to get them to take that risk. So, dealing with your group what I've always enjoyed is your willingness to take a bit of a punt on a new technology, and I think that's probably served you very.

Well, during the pandemic.

Steve: A lot of what drives that is that poor private business compliance is a huge part of the business, but that's not our focal point, right? Like that's a given, the compliance issues have to be handled. Safety lease issues, all of that kind of stuff. But with a public entity, that kind of takes the forefront, it's a defensive kind of stance where compliance kind of leads the charge. And as a group that is a landlord or a program manager, in most cases, we try to flip that upside down and make it more of a partnership. So instead of a tenant landlord relationship, it's a business partnership where we want to instead of compromise, where we view that as a bit of a loose for everybody, figure out how do we make it a win all the way around. To your point, Neil, I think that's where we get most of the great ideas and the wins. It aligns people a little bit more naturally than would normally be in a landlord tenant situation.

Max: So, Steve, you've already kind of covered most of this, but what does a positive passenger experience mean to you?

Steve: I think a positive passenger experience is when they're walking through the airports. They also know where they're at. So, for example, if you're in Nashville, I think they do a great job of making sure you know you're in Nashville and what does it stand for? We try to do that in Chicago with a taste of place with local restaurants and things that you'd find on the street side. So, I think that's the additional component. So, reducing stress is kind of a given helping them find where they need to go easily is also a given, but adding that extra piece of local flavor and experience I think is really important for passengers, particularly now that leisure is really taking off.

Max: Yeah, that's certainly been something that's changed over the decades. Airports used to be described as basically non places, because they're all just so similar and carbon copies of each other essentially. But post 9/11 where you have to spend a significant amount of time to get past security, and it's a commitment once you get past there, airports are really trying to make the airport a special experience for their passengers.

Steve: Right absolutely.

Neil: Very good.

Max: All right! Well Steve. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to join us on the Hold Room. We really appreciate having you here.

Steve: Thank you for having me it was. A good time.

[Outro]

Wendy: Thanks for joining us in The Hold Room for this special podcast series exploring the new passenger experience. You can find more from this series on the ACC Training Hub—that’s training.acconline.org/the-hold-room—or wherever you get your podcasts, including Apple Podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, etc. Follow us for more content from the Airport Consultants Council. You can support this podcast by leaving a rating or review and by telling your friends and colleagues about the podcast. Thanks again.

The 1st Chief Commercial Officer at San Francisco international (SFO), details the impacts that the pandemic had on domestic and international travel while also explaining the mitigation tactics that SFO has taken to combat this. Kevin discusses touchless technology and the incorporation of digitalization in terminals to enhance the passenger experience during travel.

Interviewers: Max Vale and Delia Chi

Producer: Carrie Wojcik

The Hold Room, Episode 14 Transcript

[Introduction]

TJ: Welcome to The Hold Room with ACC: a quick update on all things relating to airport development as well as the Airport Consultants Council.

Wendy: This episode is part of a New Passenger Experience series hosted by ACC’s Terminal and Facilities Committee. In this series, we are collecting the experiences and perspectives of different types of users of the airport passenger terminal, including: business travelers; leisure travelers; airport executives; airport, airline, TSA, and concessions staff; and airport consultant staff, to name a few. For more information on this series and the hosts, go back and give the first episode a listen to.

Wendy: Joining Delia and Max in the Hold Room today is Kevin Bumen. Kevin is representing large airports in our podcast series. Listen to what he has to tell us about the changing passenger experience at SFO.

[Interview]

Delia: Welcome to the Hold Room. In this episode on the new passenger experience today we turn our focus to commercial operations at airports and are joined by Kevin Bumen, Chief Commercial Officer at San Francisco International Airport. It's such a pleasure to have you with us today in the Hold Room. Kevin, can you please tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Kevin: Good morning, thanks for having me on today. It's great to be here. I began as the Chief Commercial Officer here last fall in San Francisco. It's a new position here at the airport. Our former CFO, Leo Fermin, retired last year. There was some reorganization done, and they took the time. I was a chief business and finance position and created a CFO position and a CCO position. I'm proud to have been selected to serve in that role here as the first Chief Commercial officer for SFO.

Prior to joining the team here, I was in San Luis Obispo. I was the director of airports for San Luis Obispo County for seven years and then prior to that I was working in the North Lake Tahoe area and I was at Truckee Tahoe Airport, served in several roles there and finished my time there as Director of Aviation.

Delia: Thank you for that, Kevin. How has the pandemic affected you in your job and operations at SFO?

Kevin: You know airports all over the pandemics had a massive effect on our business on our facilities on our staff, it really hasn't left any area untouched of the entire enterprise. But like many areas we’re in recovery at various points of recovery, I would say. Everything doesn't come back at the same pace San Francisco was hit exceptionally hard. When you look at the coastal hubs versus the Mid-continent hubs, our business went way, way down. And to the tune of over 90% down by some measures at the bottom.

But we're coming back. I'll be it slowly, San Francisco, you know pre pandemic had about 26% of our traffic was international and we're only seeing a fraction of that at this point. It is there, but it's very small and why does that matter? Because you know when we look at our network here you know the domestic network feeds a portion of that international traffic, so you can only see domestic recovery growing to a point until we have the international feed to drive the remainder of domestic recovery. And then when we look at the economics of the international passenger and their spend and their impact on the airport. Both of the passenger and the airlines, the economic recovery will not be complete for this airport until we see a growing portion of international traffic.

Delia: I know that a lot of the leisure traffic is starting to come back at a much faster pace than the business travel, and you know, we talked about the international traveler with all of the rules, regulations, policies, mandates during the pandemic. I know that it's been really hard for airports concessions, tenants it's been really hard for everybody to just respond to all of those changes, and it's probably the same case for SFO. I know we're talking to some off the other airports and airlines in our podcasts, there was a lot of mention in the conversations that we had around touchless technology.

Some of the innovative solutions that have come out of the pandemic. Is there anything at San Francisco in terms of the technology improvements that have sort of arisen, out of the pandemic?

Kevin: In terms of something that is entirely unique to this, I can't say anything comes to mind immediately, but I will say it as propel or thinking on touchless. You know, we implemented parking reservations last fall. And while that you know is not unique to our airport or the industry in general, it's a way to bring touchless to that experience in in ways that we hadn't had before, so. I think it certainly raised the visibility on those investments and why they are not just a good idea, but in some cases even expected by the passenger. You know the technology that's been out there, whether it's you know around HVAC systems or cleaning, and many of those other things. Some of that was already in place here, just given the age of, you know, maybe some of our newer terminals versus our older ones.

The really key piece of this, I think, is as we look at new technologies in the airport and whether it's around the terminal and the physical plant, or whether it's around the customer experience. I think this event will create a real imperative to look at well, what does this do for our health and safety initiatives? Does this help move us forward in that direction because there is a new imperative that comes out of this. I feel like the industry much you know, 911 really changed our posture and our policies and our procedures around physical security. The pandemic is going to do the same around health security.

Max: That's actually a great segue into our next question. If you could make one suggestion for improving the passenger experience, what would it be? And it doesn't have to be related to health and safety, could be anything.

Kevin: Well, you know. I feel like the future lies in digital and as is overly simplistic as that sounds, I you know San Francisco has done a really remarkable job over the past many, many years of building beautiful terminals with beautiful amenities and a passenger experience in the physical sense that is often unmatched. I think our next horizon is how do we bring the digital to that? That really goes all the way back into the journey of the traveler that starts with really dreaming of travel. Right? Like just that kind of dream to plan and that SF is appropriately engaged with the passenger at that level all the way through to planning up to day of travel to then in terminal, to post travel and that.

We fully evolved the digital experience on all platforms, on all fronts, in an integrated fashion, to bring completeness to the to the trip that you know. The airlines have done a wonderful job of really building out the tools that they bring to the passenger for evaluating tickets and itineraries and pricing up to you know hey, you get the text the night before about your gate or a flight delay and then you get a little bit of information in the airport. And then you might get a survey after you travel, and that is a that is a very defined important part of the journey that the airline really owns the customer, but there's a whole lot of that journey on either end that that the airport is a very important piece of that. And we can do a lot more than we have done in the past and so I really see that future on digital. We're at a unique point right now where it's you know revenue recovery with Traveler recovery, but it's also challenged by you know the overall financial condition of the airport really drives some thinking around: How do we find interesting ways to evolve our revenue that don't involve a heavy investment? And that's probably our biggest focal point right now. Is there are opportunities out there, but until we get further along in recovery, significant investments on a lot of projects. Whether it's a built project or a digital project, are going to be hard to come by.

Delia: Yeah, we spoke to a couple of hospitality providers, and it was really interesting. They were kind of saying the same thing, Kevin. They were talking about like I think it's this is kind of a new age of looking into door-to-door experiences and when I mean door to door, I mean like when you book your plane to get and are about to like walk out of the door or there could be a partnership that you have with airports have with Uber or airlines have with Uber and Lyft or any of those other TNC companies. All the way to when we when the passenger gets onto the onto the plane and that digital experience. And as you said, fully involving that digital experience is going to be able to really start connecting the dots in the passenger journey and really offer that seamless service. So I'm yeah totally on board with what you're saying.

Kevin: As you look at those points in the passenger journey where there is anxiety or uncertainty around what is going to happen so the passenger response is get there early and then figure it out when you're there, right? Because time, which is the commodity you're trading in air travel is what passengers are reinvesting into the journey to create certainty. And in reality can bring digital to that journey in ways that allows them to use their time differently. They may still choose to show up early, but maybe then they're enjoying a drink at the bar or they're shopping, or they go to one of our yoga rooms. There's so many other ways that they could use that precious commodity of time in their trip. Rather than: “Oh my gosh, I don't know how long the line at security is going to be, so I'm gonna get there an extra hour early.” And then what? It's this constant exchange of uncertainty and time in that pre travel realm. What the current situation is at the airport and how to navigate that. And right now, with leisure travel being such a high component of our customer base, just in walking around the terminals, the experience of the average traveler right now is lower than average. You don't have the frequent business traveler in the mix. But I think if you look at people who travel infrequently or haven't traveled in a long time, it's evident as you walk around, there's just an inherent aspect of leisure travelers too, that they they're not on the road every week. They aren't as agile in the airport and so as I think about the power of digital, right now, if we had it with leisure travel being this large component, I think it could be quite impactful in that segment could be desirable.

Delia: I know you've already talked about this a little bit, but what does a positive passenger experience mean to you?

Kevin: That's a fantastic question. I think the positive passenger experience is one that it exceeds expectations in positive ways. It has elements of surprise and delight in it. You know of moments in that in that whole experience, right that places perhaps where there was friction in previous journeys or anticipated friction, it's just not there, right?

There's clear signage that takes you easily to your check in or your bag drop or your gate. The lines are short, birds are singing, you know the rainbows on the horizon, right? I mean, it's like how, how idyllic can you make? This right it can be so much more at times than what it is and the what it is often impacts of peak volume or construction. And as soon as you have one of those unanticipated moments the stress goes up, the enjoyment goes down because now you're just in this recovery mode through the journey and there's no one definition to it. I think everyone would define it differently, but I think we've all had a trip that we can point to that we would say was really really good. But we've all had a lot of really, really good trips that we can't recall and so you know that absence of recollection is, well, it was a successful trip, right? I got through the airport, nothing happened, you know? That it's the great trip we all forget and that's fine, but then you know, I think about like our SFO museum.

And for somebody who maybe hasn't been to SFO and seen that, you know there's a, there's an impactful moment when you start seeing the art we have around the airport, and some of the incredible historical photography and displays. That's a really impressive feature of our airport that for somebody who either has forgotten about that or has never seen it, that's an incredible moment in their trip. But if they have the time to sit there and engage with that and enjoy it, ideally that's something that in the trip that nothing else goes wrong with, they take that with them. And are talking about that of you know, gosh my trip through the airport, there was this museum and it was wonderful and it was cool, and you know. Everything else went fine, but let me tell you about the really good part. All these little moments in that experience that are. You know either part of the built environment or part of what the airport does to engage and create experiences along the way. There's so much opportunity there, and a lot of it doesn't cost a lot of money.

Max: Harvey Milk Terminal, Terminal 1 at SFO is one of my favorite terminals of all time. It's a beautiful building. It's got artwork everywhere and I love the fact that it's attributed to Harvey Milk. First openly gay elected official in the United States. That's a big deal.

Kevin: Huge, yeah. And to folks that aren't from the Bay Area or astute on politics probably wouldn't know that story.

I see a question in the chat here regarding the museum and how do you drive passengers to spaces like the museum while keeping anxiety low enough to enjoy it fully? That's a great question, right? Because if you are having this challenged journey that is impacted by crowds and other things, how do you create the desire or the ability for somebody to enjoy it? I think one of those is simply in our design. Like I think a big piece of it is ensuring that the displays are on the journey path, that it's almost integral to it and you could take 10 seconds or 30 seconds or 10 minutes and stop and enjoy it. Think placement and design are key and creating things engaging elements of airports it's meaningful to them. They could gain something from it. You know the other piece I think to here, is that we change those things so they rotate, and whether that's a museum type function or whether you know it's your commercial offerings, other parts of the airport keeping it fresh and keeping it real, nobody gets excited about something they see all the time. There's things they like to see all the time that are kind of those anchored points, but on the other hand, having elements that are changing and dynamic is, I think, a part of that excitement too. As I travel around to airports of all sizes one of the most unique things about this airport.

Delia: I know one of the things I've really liked about San Francisco, where every time I've flown out of it, the art displays that are right along the path. Even in Terminal 2, they've got those. Terminal 2 is designed somewhat a little bit differently so than some of the other terminals that are more linear.

Whereas in Terminal 2 you've got the gates surrounding like the concessions, the food. And I always thought that those types of spaces were actually pretty unique in that you don't even have to sit in the hold room to wait for your plane, a lot of the airlines have the alerts that you can get on your phone. And I know a lot of our listeners are they’re architects, engineers and planners and I guess the question to you Kevin is: Are there just in thinking about the design of the airport and how that affects the customer experience and for me, I get Terminal 2 having that middle area is really unique for me and very memorable, but is there anything that you would want to provide/impart to our listeners that our engineers, architects, planners that are involved in the designing of the airport, so anything you would say to them to from your perspective to improve the passenger experience?

Kevin: Well, foundational to passenger experience is design. You know, I think if you imagine everything I was talking about with this, you know fully evolved digital experience and you did that in the most rudimentary terminal that didn't have the amenities the aesthetic the comfort the convenience. I don't think the digital would be successful, it you have to have both and you know our system has evolved in a way that we do great built terminals throughout the US throughout the world. We're very involved in that space. The digital layer is now coming into it. I think it's hugely important. I mean in San Francisco it defines you know much of the identity and the culture of the of the airport, the city, the region. There's an aesthetic to that, that we’ve propelled. We've done a lot of work around that with our REACH program, and other ways that we communicate that, you know, design standard is probably too narrow of a term, but the way that we want to evolve our facilities and the experience that passengers derive from them purely by the way you know that the light moves through the facility, the way that the signage is hung in the way that the, you know, the floors are designed in this. You know all the things with ceiling height then hold room design. There's so much to that that. Uh, in a in a in a really, really well-designed terminal that that frictionless experience I mentioned earlier becomes enabled by that design. And you know, just as some elements of passenger engagement don't cost a lot of money. Terminals, on the other hand typically cost a lot of money. There are some neat things you can do that that are rather economical, but at the same time a lot of a highly evolved design is going to be investment based and that you know that comes down to, you know, just beyond the desires of the airport, you know what's the capability financially? What's the relationship with the airlines and are they willing to support those kind of investments to elevate the experience?

There's a, there's a lot that goes into that, but I think you know for somebody who is in a planning or a design role at an airport, their job is extremely important because you know those details. I mean, we could talk a whole podcast just about bathrooms, right? I mean. Like there is a moment in a passenger journey that can be really good, not memorable, or really bad, and you want the 1st two? So you know San Francisco has done a lot of work in our bathroom designs. We've got different generations of those around the airport that are notable. But that's a that's a very key piece of this and yes, I couldn't emphasize that enough that I think the success will start with those facilities, how they're evolved, the care, the detail you know to your comment Max about the stories you're telling in those facilities, whether it's about, you know, a prominent local figure, or whether it's about the history of the region or art. What you, what life do you bring to that? Because an airport can be a big empty building too. And so you have to breathe some of the, some elements of life and culture to it in in many ways that can make it very exciting.

Max: Kevin, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us about your perspective on the passenger experience, both past and future, and we really appreciate your time.

Kevin: Thanks for having me. It's always nice to talk about our shared challenges and opportunities in this industry.

[Outro]

Wendy: Thanks for joining us in The Hold Room for this special podcast series exploring the new passenger experience. You can find more from this series on the ACC Training Hub—that’s training.acconline.org/the-hold-room—or wherever you get your podcasts, including Apple Podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, etc. Follow us for more content from the Airport Consultants Council. You can support this podcast by leaving a rating or review and by telling your friends and colleagues about the podcast. Thanks again.

Former ACC Board Chair Larry Studdiford provides his expertise regarding baggage handling technology/innovation and how it contributes to the positive passenger experience. He dives into the intricacies of baggage design, operations, and cost and how this affects airports and travelers.

Stuart Vella, Vice President Commercial Development & Operations, USA, joins Laura and Delia in The Hold Room to discuss technology based solutions in premium lounges that are here to stay.

Alan Howell, a senior airport architect with the Metropolitan Airports Commission at MSP, joins Laura and Delia in The Hold Room to discuss an architect’s perspective on working at an active airport. He talks about the impact the last couple of years has had on the projects at the airport.

Matt Cunha, a State Trooper at Boston-Logan International Airport, joins Laura and Delia in The Hold Room to discuss law enforcement’s perspective on working at an active airport. He talks about what he enjoys about working in law enforcement at an airport as well as the challenges and changes to the passenger experience he has seen over the last two years.

Mary Luc, a quarantine public health officer with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) at SFO, joins Delia and Neil in The Hold Room to discuss the CDC’s role at airports in mitigating the spread of infectious diseases within the United States. She talks about the importance of collaboration between public health agencies and airport partners, as well as her advice for traveling during the pandemic.

* This episode is a great reminder about the best ways for travelers to keep themselves and others safe while traveling, particularly around the holidays. Stay safe, Happy Holidays, and stay tuned for more episodes in the new year!

Scott Skramstad and Rick Valentino of Metropolitan Airports Commission (which operates Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport and 6 general aviation airports) chat about the future passenger experience and adapting operations in response to the pandemic. Learn about post-pandemic challenges MAC is dealing with including staffing, wayfinding, and technology implementation.

Steven Tamaroglio – United Airlines is automating the passenger experience with new technology post-COVID-19. Find out what the passenger feedback is by tuning into this episode of the Hold Room! Join Steven Tamaroglio from United Airlines to learn how COVID-19 has driven touchless passenger experience, technology advancements, and the gate of the future.

Chris Kopec – Representing the multidisciplinary planning, design, and construction administration firm McFarland Johnson, Chris Kopec gives us an inside look at innovations at airports from a mechanical engineering lens. Ranging from advanced screening equipment to indoor air quality improvements to marketing, Chris describes the technologies he believes will provide a positive passenger experience into the future.