The Humane Marketing Show. A podcast for a generation of marketers who care.

In this episode of the Humane Marketing podcast, I'm joined by Pauliina Rasi to explore the art of effortless and authentic social media post writing. We dive into why writing for social media can feel daunting, and how you can overcome those challenges by finding your unique voice and style. 

Pauliina shares practical strategies for brainstorming fresh content, maintaining consistency, and offers a sneak peek into the powerful frameworks we'll cover in our upcoming workshop. 

This conversation is designed to inspire and empower entrepreneurs to write with more ease and flow, aligning your social media presence with the principles of humane marketing.

Here's what we talked about:

+ Why writing social media posts can feel so daunting

+ How to find your unique voice and style in your social media posts without feeling like you're copying others

+ Strategies for brainstorming ideas and generating fresh content for your posts

+ Tips for maintaining consistency

+ And a sneak peek of the frameworks that Pauliina will share with us in our upcoming workshop on September 4th - https://lu.ma/f64hyojw

And so much more...

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Sarah: [00:00:00] Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy.

I'm Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what we're doing.

Works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way.

We share with transparency and vulnerability, what works for us and what doesn't work. So that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane. marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need.

Whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book, I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience. experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one on one client can find out more at humane.

marketing forward slash coaching. And finally, if you are a marketing impact pioneer and would like to bring humane marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at humane. marketing. com. Dot marketing.

Ep 195 intro: Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Humane Marketing Podcast. I hope you're doing well and had a wonderful summer. Maybe didn't even notice that I skipped one of the episodes this August, but I'm back. I'm back with another conversation. Today's conversation fits. The P of promotion, and I'm talking to Paulina Razzi, a communication strategist and [00:03:00] copywriter about effortless and authentic social media posts writing.

If you're a regular here, you already know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. And if this is your first time here, well, a big warm welcome. We're all about humane business, humane marketing, humane selling. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, you can download your one page marketing plan with the humane marketing version of the seven piece of marketing at humane.

marketing. com. One page, that's the number one and the word page. And this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different P's and help you with your foundational clarity for your marketing and business. So, my friend Paulina Razzi is a writer, communication strategist, and trainer.

With 20 years of experience as a journalist and communications consultant, she helps [00:04:00] businesses, projects, and professionals communicate their messages with clarity and confidence. Paulina's work focuses on breaking writing strategy into actionable pieces so that professionals and entrepreneurs can turn into.

Effective content effortlessly and cut through the digital noise to share their message with people who matter. When not typing on her laptop, she can be found on the slopes of the Swiss Alps or spending time in nature with her family and friends. Yes, you guessed it, uh, Paulina is local here in Switzerland and we've actually, we're one of these people who have met in person.

So that's always extra special. So here's what we talked about on this episode. Why writing social media posts can feel so daunting, how to find your unique voice and style in your social media posts without feeling like you're copying others, strategies for brainstorming ideas and generating fresh content for your posts.

[00:05:00] Tips for maintaining consistency, and then a sneak peek of the frameworks that Paulina will share with us in our upcoming CoLab workshop on September 4th. So without further ado, let's dive in.

Sarah: Hey Paulina, so good to see you and hang out with you for a bit to talk about social media posts. I'm very excited to have you here.

Pauliina: Likewise. Thank you for having me, Sarah.

Sarah: Wonderful. So we are doing a collab workshop together. And, uh, this time the topic is all around kind of like very pragmatic information around how do you structure and write, uh, those social media posts, which we know a lot of people are struggling with, right?

It's, yeah. Is that also the feeling that you get? Like, because I think people are struggling with several things around this social media [00:06:00] presence kind of thing. Um, one of them, I think is consistency, but let's talk about consistency later. Let's first talk about this idea of. writing these posts. What do you see when you work with your clients?

Why is that such a struggle for people?

Pauliina: Well, writing is terrifying. I've been writing in one way or another, most of my career, and I can also relate on the emotional level to, to that struggle. And I see it in my client's lives and I experienced it in my own life as well. If not on a daily basis, regularly anyway, and that would, that would be maybe my first message that even though you are a professional writer, you can write a lot, but you can still sometimes feel that struggle because there's a lot at play there really when you're trying to write, especially when you write about yourself and your own work.

And, um, and, uh, it's, it can be sensitive. It can be, [00:07:00] it can make you feel vulnerable. And there's a lot of authenticity at, uh, at play when you're writing about yourself, but, uh, but it can be, it can be overcome as well, when you, when you work through, through it, uh, well, enough, uh, enough, and when you develop different capabilities, capabilities around that.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, no, I hear you. I think, I think there's. There's this fear of really truly showing up and. You know, I have this, I I've, as you know, I've been, uh, my first business was a LinkedIn consultant. So I've been growing up on LinkedIn. And to me, it's not scary at all to completely make a fool of myself on LinkedIn anymore.

But I have, uh, like one very good friend who's been on LinkedIn for years as well. But she's still. still kind of feels like, Oh, but this is the professional network. And can I really, truly be myself? And w you know, and so I think a lot of people have [00:08:00] that with LinkedIn, especially, um, and of course also with, with other platforms, but LinkedIn kind of has this heaviness to it still because of how it came about.

And it's changed a lot, but. I think it's also because a lot of maybe our clients moved out of the corporate world, and so they had to kind of like, wear this professional mask, and now they're going into their own business, coaching, consulting, and all of a sudden they're, they're asked, To show up as authentic and, and it just kind of feels weird.

Right? So I think one of the big things is like, how do I find my voice on these platforms? How do you help people find their voice?

Pauliina: Absolutely. And I think you're onto something there, especially when you say about LinkedIn and how rapidly the platform has changed. So many of us might be feeling that we aren't, we haven't really fully caught [00:09:00] up yet.

And, um, and when you, when you feel that way, finding your voice and knowing. What part of your voice you actually want to project might be a little bit tricky, and it comes to down to defining your strategy and setting your goals. When I see people struggling on LinkedIn or on other platforms, if we backpedal a little, is it can be for the lack of strategy.

So not really knowing What to say what they're trying to achieve, not not being sure how they're going to reach that. That's a big building block. And if you don't have those questions, it might be very hard to do with confidently the other reason or the other part that people might be struggling with is the confidence that you that that you also maybe your friend might be suffering from not having the confidence or the courage to say what they want.

Know what they need to say. And then the third third element. There is the practical practical part like how am I? How am I going to say, say [00:10:00] exactly, but you need the three or three of them so you can be consistent. You can be confident and that you can be clear about the message, knowing what you're going to say, finding the inner courage, the confidence to to project your voice and then the practice finding the ways the strategies, the template, the frameworks that work for you.

And when you have all. All three in place, it gets a lot easier, but I would also like to say that it's okay if it doesn't always feel easy. Like some of, some, some of us might feel like I don't care if I make a complete fool out of myself. I've already done that. And for others, I have clients who've been very, very visible, very present for years, and they still get the wobble of it every, every now and then.

And that can be part of the process as well. And that can be, that can be okay.

Sarah: Yeah, I always encourage my, my change makers to, to embrace that role. Like that is truly the role of a change maker and change is not easy. Right. [00:11:00] And so it, it, it almost is part of the change making is that you have to put that message out there and yes, it's not going to be easy, but.

It will get easier because everything gets easier by practice. So exactly. And you can

Pauliina: get better at February. It might still feel scary at times, but I think it's also a good thing to go towards what's scary or what you're afraid of, because it tells people that you're doing something new. And it's also a part of finding that voice.

If you, if you never feel scared, if you always feel super comfortable, maybe you're not fully using your voice or spreading your message. So that's, um. That's something to keep in mind as well.

Sarah: Yeah, that just gave me goosebumps. I think that's such a good point because a lot of people who come to me for humane marketing, they tell me that they've just gone through the motions of marketing, meaning they've just gone through, you know, posting things kind of like they.

Took some [00:12:00] class and some guru told them, well, this is how it works. This is how you have to do it, but without helping them to find their own voice. And so it's these empty posts that just feel like marketing messages. And, and that is it. Look, totally less scary, right? The scary thing, like you mentioned at the beginning is the vulnerability.

Uh, but that's where the human connection and that's where you really resonate that this frequency level and not just like, oh, there's another marketer or there's another copy writer. So. You're totally right. It's like, if, if you haven't, if it doesn't feel scary, then ask yourself, well, are you really truly putting yourself in those posts or, or not?

Yeah.

Pauliina: Exactly. Exactly. And often what we often forget on social media is that authenticity and that connection, it's much more important than perfection. Like, you don't need to be the best writer out there. You don't need to write as well as [00:13:00] maybe some professional writers, writers do, but you need to have something, some, something of you in that message.

So it resonates. And that's often a discussion I have with my clients and people in my network as well, because they might come to me and ask, like, could you write this for me? I could, but actually most of the time they do much, a much better job writing themselves for themselves. Even though it's maybe a little bit less.

Perfect on the surface, or maybe the turn of the phrases aren't as polished as they could be, but their authenticity and their voice and their experience shines through. And it's much more powerful and it's much more important than the perfection, perfection of the message.

Sarah: Yeah, that's so true. I want to come back to the three ingredients you shared, but what you just said also makes me think of AI and how You know, we could totally just now use ChatGPT or any other tool to have all our posts written [00:14:00] and we know we're good to go.

But what you just mentioned is, is like, well, how is ChatGPT going to really, truly bring in your authentic self? It can, like, I'll have to admit it does a pretty, pretty good job, but you still have to come up with the. The topics you guys still have to come up with, you know, the experiences, Chachapiti doesn't know your life, you know, these little moments of storytelling that you share to connect.

Uh, it doesn't know that. So, um, you can use probably AI as a tool to help you kind of fine tune some of your posts, but I would, yeah, I would probably say, don't just Give it all over to ChachiBT and say, Oh, just write my post because that's kind of probably the risk that we're going to run into that everything just feels like perfect.

And, and then there's, yeah, there's less of that authenticity in there [00:15:00] again, I'm very much pro ChachiBT, but yeah, I wouldn't just hand it over, uh, to, to write my posts for me at all.

Pauliina: No, I wouldn't either. And I think it can be a great sparring partner. It can be a great, uh, well, not a person, but a great tool to ask, like, how would you approach this topic?

I'm writing about this. Am I missing something? What kind of an analogy would you use to describe this? Or kind of like spar with that? Especially if you work alone, it can be super helpful, but it only does a very mediocre job in writing for you. And like you said, like, it doesn't know the words you You use, it doesn't come up with creative expressions very often, unless you ask specifically.

Um, so you need to, you, well, you need to leave some space for your personality. Definitely.

Sarah: Yeah. All right. So getting back to the three ingredients you mentioned is confidence, strategy, And then the actual frameworks and just how to, to follow. So we're going to cover the how to and the frameworks [00:16:00] in, in our uh, workshop on September 7th.

Uh, so if you're listening to this or watching us, we'd love to have you join us, humane. marketing forward slash workshop. Um, But we want to cover maybe, uh, uh, I think we talked a fair amount, uh, about confidence. Um, let's talk a little bit about strategy. So I think one of the things people struggle with is that they just, you know, open whatever social media platform it is and then go, what should I write?

So how can we better approach this? How do you, Yeah. Help your clients with strategy.

Pauliina: Well, the first question I'm helping my clients answer is what is your message? What is it that you bring to a table? What is it that you can help people with? What are your unique capabilities, your talents? What is special about you?

So everything starts with what did you have? To get, then there's of course, a [00:17:00] question of who you are speaking to writing too. So you can tailor that message to be relevant for them. And then we come to a question of channels, like where to be present, where to reach those people, but it all starts with, what do you have to share?

And, uh, focusing on that and nailing and nailing that is so crucial because if you don't know what you are going to say, what do you, what, what is the message you want to get across? Well, everything else becomes just very random.

Sarah: Yeah, it's kind of this chicken and the egg thing that we often have. And, and it's funny because people like when I look at beginning, uh, coaches or, or, or business owners in general, they immediately want to go to social media, right, without doing the foundational work, the getting that clarity.

We can be, yeah, we can be present on social media for years and years and nothing ever comes [00:18:00] out of it if we don't know what, what we're offering. We don't know who our clients are. We don't know where they are in their journey. So yeah, there's, there's a lot of information that needs to be in place before we ever go on social media.

And we can actually kind of hurt. our reputation if we go out there too early and then looking from the outside in and look, it kind of gets completely confusing for people who are like, one day she's talking about this, the other day about that. It's like, what is she doing? Like, I

Pauliina: don't get it. So exactly.

And we can hurt ourselves in the process by burning ourselves out and spending a lot of energy on something that's not moving us forward. As forward at all. Like it is a little bit of this throwing spaghetti to a wall and seeing what sticks which can be if you just start shopping on social media channels before setting up a foundation.

And then when you set up the strategy, it's really [00:19:00] deciding on what kind of spaghetti you're going to use and how long you're going to cook it for before you start start throwing it on a wall wall and that can really change everything. Of course, there's always that aspect of going out there and just trialing and seeing what works, but it's a whole another world when you do that strategically, and don't just just start somewhere and do exactly what you just described there.

Yeah,

Sarah: yeah, so true. So, I want us to give just a little sneak peek about the frameworks, because I think that's what people are, you know, it's nice to have the security of some kind of structure. And yes, we're still saying, well, Use the structure, but infuse your own voice, right? Don't just follow it to the dot, but I think it gives people that security, uh, to, to know, oh, okay, there's some kind of structure that I'm following.

So without giving everything away, [00:20:00] because we would love people to join us for the workshop, but tell us a little bit about, um, these frameworks that you're using.

Pauliina: Confidently and frameworks. Indeed, they can bring this additional layer of security. It's almost like a safety net. Always have something to fall back on and when you have your strategy sorted out, you can start using these templates in a way and creating maybe even your own templates and frameworks in a way that still allows your internal light light to shine.

But one of the favorite favorite frameworks I like to use is it's called stair s t e a. And that's, um, that is something I like to use, especially when tapping into the emotional, emotional aspect of writing and emotional aspect of our reader's lives, because it allows us to look at the situation they're in, uh, the thoughts, the emotions, uh, they have about the situation, the actions they take, and then how you can help turn that, uh, [00:21:00] around so they get different results.

So it's, uh, it's, it's a network I like, like using, especially when trying to reach, uh, reach, uh, the emotional aspect aspect in my readers, readers lives. And, uh, it's, uh, very practical in the sense that even though it sounds like a lot of, a lot of acronyms to begin with, when you really are really, um, use it a few times, you, uh, you can create a good library of templates for yourself.

So

Sarah: what do the letters stand for? S-T-E-A-R-S

Pauliina: stands for situation, whether what, what's the situation, whether reader might be in t is, uh, about the thoughts they have about their situation, and e is about the emotion. So that allows you to put yourself self in their shoes and approach this, uh, the situation from their point of view.

A refers to actions. What are the actions they typically take because of the thoughts and emotions? And what are the actions you could help them take as the professional [00:22:00] if they followed your guidance? And R is about the results. What are the results they get? And what are the results they could get if they use your method?

So that's why it's, uh, it's, it can be very practical for, especially for service, service business owners and people selling different services.

Sarah: Mm, yeah, that, that helps a lot to, to first kind of project yourself into the client's shoes and then, you know, using empathy and compassion, understanding their situation, the thoughts, what they're not saying as well, and then bringing it back to you and say, okay, um, here's the action I want you to take.

And also. Here's a possible solution I have. Um, I love that. Yeah. And, and again, we're, we're going to apply that during our workshop and actually have a breakout room where you ask people to, you know, apply this framework and give them guidance on how to write a post and, and then [00:23:00] we can share them in the chat and you'll get feedback.

I think, I think one thing we're doing well in our community is that we, you Create the time and space to apply, uh, what we're learning and not just, you know, content overloading our minds and go, Oh, there's like 10 frameworks and this is how it works. And, and now, you know, go off on your own and try to figure it out.

I think, uh, we need more spaciousness and time to be able to actually integrate, uh, these, all this mind stuff that comes our way. So, um, Yeah, I really look forward to having this kind of hands on experimenting with your framework. So that sounds great. Any last tips on consistency? Because that's another thing that I think people struggle with is like, oh yeah, they can do like, you know, a month and then they get [00:24:00] frustrated and tired because there's not enough likes or not enough comments.

Um, and then they. You know, feel like, oh, I tried it and it didn't work. So what would you say in terms of consistency is a good, good advice.

Pauliina: When it comes to consistency, of course, the basics are the first building block. Again, the strategy, the confidence, having the, having the tools in place. So having that strategic block in place is, uh, is crucial because it's hard to be consistent if you don't really know where you're going and how you plan to get there.

The other, uh, thing that's very important are routines. So how do you build your weeks and months so that you have time to create a content that Is consistent to you often when I start working with my clients, they come to me saying like, Oh, I could easily publish every day on LinkedIn or every other day.

And then I asked, like, how long does it take you to create that content and they realize it might take them four hours, which is a big time [00:25:00] commitment for someone else who has other things on their plate as well. So being looking into your weeks and months and seeing whatever routines you can build in there so that you can really get.

Your content done. And finally, being realistic with what consistent means to you. Consistent is not necessarily daily. Often on many channels, it means weekly, because if you don't do things often enough, you lose momentum. But it's good to remember that your consistency doesn't need to be someone else's consistency.

It's always better to start slow and easy. Maybe even if If it means that you publish weekly on LinkedIn or even less often and then build it up from there so that rather than the going the other way around so trying to do it to do it daily and then falling off the wagon and getting all depressed and having to start all over again next month.

Sarah: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think it's, it's, it's something that you could do more if you [00:26:00] enjoy it. And if it comes, becomes easier and easier, but if it's a drag, then why would you want to do it, you know, more often, uh, I mean, our, our businesses are supposed to be joyful and if social media posting is not your favorite thing in your business, well then reduce it to once per week and instead of Just going through the motions really take the time to create a more meaningful post rather than just a, you know, marketing slash sales post.

I think exactly,

Pauliina: exactly. And I think it's so important to work on things that are meaningful and rewarding for you as well, especially if you're a one person business, it changes when you start having a team around you, because then you can start outsourcing things that don't come. Naturally, but especially when you're on your own, you're writing about yourself.

You are the face and the voice of your business. It's so important to do content and create content that's meaningful and natural to you as [00:27:00] well.

Sarah: Yeah,

Pauliina: yeah.

Sarah: So good. Well, I really look forward to this. session in our community. Um, again, if you're listening, this was just kind of a teaser. I hope we gave you enough content still to, to make you understand how, yeah, how Paulina is approaching this topic.

I only choose my workshop collaborators, uh, because we have aligned values. So definitely feel very good about that. So hope to have you join us on September 7th, uh, 2024 humane. marketing forward slash workshop. Paulina, any last words of wisdom regarding social media? Maybe, maybe I think I have listeners who are like, I'm just done with social media.

So what would you tell them?

Pauliina: Well, do whatever works for your business. If social media doesn't feel good for [00:28:00] you for any number of reasons and not good goes beyond like basic, basic wobbly feet, find other ways to connect with, with your audience and with your friends. Social media is not mandatory. It's a fantastic place to test different ideas, uh, to share your voice, share your message.

But there are plenty of others if that doesn't feel like an authentic way for you to connect with the people you're trying to reach.

Sarah: Hmm. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for doing this and I can't wait to our workshop together.

Pauliina: Thank you for having me, Sarah. And I look forward to diving in into all this with a human marketing circle in September.

Thank you. Have a wonderful day. You too. Bye.

Ep 195 outro: I hope you got some great value from listening to this episode. You can find out more about Paulina and her work at paulinarazzi. com. That's Paulina with two [00:29:00] I's. Uh, so P A U L I N A R A S I. com. She also has a free guide with content ideas and you find that at paulinarazzi. com forward slash free. And if you'd like to roll back your sleeves and get to know Helena's frameworks so you can apply them week after week to your social media posts, then join us for the next CoLab workshop on September 4th. I think I said September 7th once during the episode. So no, it's September 4th, a Wednesday, and you can sign up for a donation at humane.

marketing forward slash workshop. These workshops are hosted in our community, the Humane Marketing Circle. And if you'd like to join that and then get access to all the collab workshops, you can find out more at humane. marketing forward slash [00:30:00] circle. You find the show notes of this episode at humane.

marketing forward slash H M 1 9 5. And on this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers, the Humane Business Manifesto, as well as my two books, Marketing Like We're Human and Selling Like We're Human. Thank you so much, as always, for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and your business.

and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers. So go be the change you want to see in the world. Speak soon.

I'm back with another short unplugged episode.

This time it's a conversation with Melissa Davis of humanityinc.world and myself around the topic of Niching. Melissa was on the podcast on episode 182. So if you've missed that, it's definitely worth listening to!

This was triggered by a meditation I recently posted on Insight Timer, if you're on there, look for Find Your Niche - A Radically Different Approach.

Melissa's work is all about Foundational Clarity, helping entrepreneurs connect to their values. And we both have opinions around this idea of niching, and how to feel less anxious about it.

So here goes. A short conversation with Melissa Davis about Finding Your Niche.

 

In this episode of the Humane Marketing podcast we dive deep into the transformative power of Human Design with expert Jen Freeman.

We'll explore what Human Design is, how it can be specifically applied to business and entrepreneurship, and how understanding your type can help you in making informed business decisions.

Jen shares insights on how each type might approach business differently and highlights key aspects of Human Design that are particularly relevant to entrepreneurs.

Join us for an inspiring conversation to help you create a business that is authentically aligned with who you are.

Here's what we discussed in this episode:

• What Human Design is for those who might not be familiar with it.
• How Human Design can be applied specifically to business and entrepreneurship.
• How knowing one's type can help in business decisions.
• An overview of how each type might approach business differently.
• Specific aspects of Human Design that are more relevant to business, like authority or profile, or certain channels or gates.
• How understanding our own Human Design has influenced our business journeys (both the guest's and mine).
• A sneak preview of what will be shared at our Collab Workshop on August 7th.
• And so much more

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[00:00:00]

video1299808011: [00:01:00] [00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00] [00:05:00] [00:06:00] [00:07:00] [00:08:00] [00:09:00] Jen, it's so good to have you here. Welcome to the Humane Marketing Podcast. Thank you. I'm very excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Super happy to have this conversation with you. I feel like we, we've known each other for a long time. I just mentioned it in the intro, how we got to know one another and yeah, it's a pleasure to have you here.

And even more to collaborate on this workshop together that we have coming up. So let's give people a little intro to well, human design and how we use it in business, but then we'll go much further into this during the workshop on August 7th. So why don't you start [00:10:00] Jen with explaining, maybe there's people who are listening who have never heard of human design.

So I feel like yes, it's kind of in the zeitgeist, but maybe there's people who have not heard of it. So just kind of like a general introduction to human design. Okay, great. So the human design system was brought in by a gentleman named Rob, and he heard a voice and it said, are you ready? And for the next 9 straight days, he downloaded the system.

I believe this was the early 80s and he tested it over the next 10 years. And he found it to be very accurate and began to slowly roll it out. And it grew to what it is today, where he's past, since past, but his school lives on, all the people he's trained. And the essence of it, it's based on something called the neutrino stream.

And the neutrino is an infinitesimally small particle of mat that is a tiny bit of mass That comes from the sun and we filter these neutrino particles. And even in like our thumb, there's something [00:11:00] like 20 million in our phone at any given second. So it's part of the essence of being human is this interaction between our sun and how that interacts with us.

So part of what human design system shows people is, is divided into types, which we'll talk about more in a bit. And it helps you to understand how your systems interacting with this neutrino stream and how you can truly. Work with it well to really live your best life. And so much of it has to do with how to really let go of conditioning, because we have something called centers.

Some of them are open where we're deeply receiving conditioning, both from other people, the environment planets. And then there's ones that are called fix where we put out our own, I think of it, our own radio station. So human designs, the art of learning how to truly move correctly with your energy field in alignment with the whole.

So it's not just you by yourself. Okay. You know, on your lonesome, it's really you inside all of life and how you can contribute both your well being and to the well being of life in the most optimal [00:12:00] manner. Yeah. It, it, it really is hard to describe it in such a short time, right? Because it's so complex.

And when you first hear it and you hear like, What, this guy invented this and it was like a download and what, neutrino streams, what the heck is that? But yeah, it really has such depth that it took me years to get to the part, to get to the level where I'm at now of my understanding. And I've really only scratched the surface.

But the reason I keep coming back to it is because. As you know, marketing, like we're human is all about starting from within, starting from who we are and then resonating with the right clients. And so that's why this tool and this knowledge is so important. So important to me, I feel like for people to really [00:13:00] understand who they are as you know, you and I both, both also believe in astrology and how that kind of helps us understand who we are, but human design just kind of adds another layer to that understanding.

And yeah, over the years, I've. Really just gotten much more deeply into the, the study of human design in order to understand, like, like you mentioned, it's not just about me, but it's about me in relationship. To everything around us, because we're living in an ecosystem where we're constantly, you know, facing other people and in our business as well.

And that's especially what we want to talk about today is like, well, how do we use a tool like that in, in business and in marketing maybe even. So I'd like you to pick up there. [00:14:00] Well, and one thing just as a bit. So, so for your listeners, I I first had my human design reading for myself 22 years ago, and I've worked with it with hundreds of people in 22 countries.

So every color faith, I mean, everything, and it's just stayed true. So to me, it's describing something very fundamental, like our relationship to gravity. It's just there. So this is part of, I really. wholeheartedly invite everyone to test what we're about to talk about. This isn't something to just take in as a concept and believe.

This is very much something to be like, Oh, and if it sparks your interest, if you feel curiosity, play with this, because it's really in starting to apply it, you really see the magic of it. So specifically to your point about marketing is the more you understand your type. And so there's four, there's four, arguably five types.

So there's manifestors, There's generators, there's a subset called manifesting generators, there's projectors, and there's reflectors. And all four of these have different roles, different, [00:15:00] different ways that they work inside the field. So manifestors initiate. Now, I live in the States. And pretty much our whole culture, everyone's trained to be a manifesto.

So, so, but the rest of the world, I'm sure y'all aren't quite in the insane level of capitalism. We are, but it's less than 10 percent of the population. So, in reality, only 10 percent of people are really meant to just be there. I've got an idea. I'm going to go do it. So, the manifestos, they're called energy beings and so are the generators.

Now what this means by energy beings is they have access to energy to get stuff done. Right. But the manifestors, if you're a manifestor in business, then absolutely. I mean, in a lot of ways, it's amazing because you really can just go get stuff done like that, but you're not meant to actually work long term.

It would really, it's, you're meant to initiate, but you don't have the energy to actually do the work. The generators. Are the worker bees. We're the ones. I'm a manifesting generator and Sarah, you're a generator, right? I'm a generator. Yeah. So we're the ones who [00:16:00] actually have it's correct. We have the amount of energy in our bodies that we are meant to work and we need to work.

I mean, is when we work every day, we wake up, let's say, 100 Sarah units by the end of the day, you want to be down to almost 0. so you can truly rest. Right. So if you find out you're a generator in business. One of the key points is you need to wait to be initiated by life itself, by a manifestor. You need to wait, and this could be very challenging if you think you're supposed to be getting out there and initiating right away.

Right? But let's just say that, and I, someone comes along and says, Hey, you know what? That recipe you've got, I think you have a really great bread baking business. You feel inside and we'll talk more about authority in a second, but you feel you get an answer you feel a yes Then it's like go for it begin the work begin to build it and it's you could say it's blessed by life, right?

But if you have not been initiated by life and you try to manifest and you just do it out of nowhere There'll be a sense of [00:17:00] drudgery and difficulty and going uphill both ways in the snow, right? So the third type is the projectors. I want to just I want to just pause and think about this manifesting because It's interesting because kind of in this new age movement, there's all this talk about manifesting, right?

Manifesting money, manifesting clients, manifesting anything. And it's always kind of like, well, we can create. Whatever we dream of, and we just manifest it, like, do you feel like there's a connection to the manifester type? And maybe again, that whole idea of you can manifest anything, that actually only applies to, To the manifestors.

Great question. Or is that not the same kind of manifesting? Fantastic. And I've spent a long time looking at this. And so I, and part of what I think is important is to hold the human design language specifically in the container of human design, right? Because [00:18:00] they really mean something specific about a manifestor who's born in this kind of way.

And at the same time, the new age culture, when it's talking about manifesting, So there's a, a universal truth of all human beings that what we can envision, like what, what I'm also trained as a shaman. So, so in, in that world, an indigenous language, there's something called the 1st attention and 2nd attention 1st attention is attention follows belief.

So that basically means if we think that we'll never be able to make it. Our mind will filter information to see that we can't do it. Second attention is where attention follows energy. What's actually alive and real and happening. So to me, that question of manifestation, and I think better on my eyes, it has to do with truly understanding is something alive.

If it's alive, then yes, you're going to be able to have it come true in a completely different way. But what I've seen, especially again from a state's perspective. [00:19:00] These egoic desires that are really coming from a wound, like when people are like, Oh, if I only manifest a sports car, then I'll be happy.

Right. That's not the kind of manifesting we're talking about here. Right. We are all master creators. I mean, it's the nature of being a human being. We create, we create with our words, we create with our thoughts. So this is, and of course our actions within this framework of the human design context. We are looking at our, our, our self as energy beings or not energy beings and really getting, it's like being like, oh, okay, so I'm, I'm more of like a, a speaker and you're more of a plumber.

Oh, you're a builder. It's more understanding how we're meant to move energetically in the whole. Right. So, so that's something that, and it's such a great question and it's such a deep topic. So the simplest way I could sum up what I said is to understand that all of us by our nature create, we are nonstop creators.

It's what we [00:20:00] do. It's what it means to be alive. Right. Even the fact we eat food, it goes in and digests. We create our organs. We are, we are always creating, but from the standpoint of a manifester in the human design system, they are the only people truly meant to have an idea, get out of their chair and go make it happen without resistance.

Got it. Yeah. Great. So, and so generators and manifesters are these energy beings? Yes. Yes. And the generators are approximately 70 percent of the population. Okay. Thank you. So really, the majority of people, we're living in a generator world, you could basically say, right? The projectors and the reflectors, there are other two types.

Projectors are about 20 percent of the population, and they're called non energy beings. And so they're here to actually feel all the energy beings and then help direct them, like help see. To me, I think of them as the managers. You know, like really good managers, you know, where they can be like, Oh, wait, you should do this.

Stop doing this. You should be over here. Right? [00:21:00] But they are, they need the energy being such as the generators, the manifestos. To actually invite them in to offer their truths. And then actually do the work projectors are not also meant to do the work, right? They can really exhaust themselves. And the very last is the super rare.

They're like the unicorn here. They're less than 1%. They're the reflectors. And reflectors by their nature, they reflect whatever they're in contact with. So part of their role in the whole is to be able to report back. Like, how are we doing? So I have a reflector client I've been coaching for five years, and it's this never ending journey for her of really understanding where she places her attention and what she feels and how she can communicate it to people.

They're very rare, but they're very powerful, those reflectors. Very important for all of us. Yeah, I used to have a virtual assistant who was a reflector, and it was just like Such a different human being yeah, you could, [00:22:00] you could immediately tell that there's something unique about her. Exactly. Yes.

Yes. That's great. I'm just kind of reflecting. So I have a son who's a manifester. And yes, they're also very unique human beings not just because it's my son, but, but yeah, in terms of that energy. Right. And it's not, if I compare it maybe to the generator energy, it's not as stable. It's more fluctuating in terms of, you know, they get a lot of energy and they can work nonstop and then they take longer pauses in between, you know, until they get inspired again.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Where, what you said about the generators, it's kind of like, we're these working bees. And yeah, we get up every morning and have energy to work until until the night. And that kind of made me reflect that I remember Ram [00:23:00] mentioning at one point that maybe this will change as well, that maybe.

And yeah, I'm just thinking back to the industrial revolution, like wondering if all these worker bees came into the world during the industrial revolution. And if that eventually will change with this new kind of business paradigm, world paradigm that we're trying to create, have you? Yeah. Yeah. No. So great.

Yeah. What a great, so I feel like it's a metaphor switch as well. And I'm so glad you asked that because. the evolution. So the thing about generators is if they say, basically, if they don't listen to their own inner authority, and this is definitely outside of what we're doing the podcast, but just, so let's just know there's a specific way inside each type.

And even like a subway where you need to listen to yourself to discover your own truth of what's correct for you. So if a generator does not do that correctly and says [00:24:00] yes to something, they can really become enslaved. Basically. So they have all this energy, but it's now been enslaved and they can be miserable, like truly miserable as many people I'm sure can relate to.

But if they really listen to themselves and say yes to the correct opportunity, then it's like, like my dad started his own company when I was 15 and watching him just be so excited every day to get up, to build this company, it was like. It boundless energy. You can just work and work and work and work.

Right. So versus, so it's like a, a really different sense when it's a yes, when it's truly correct for you, the energy, the work becomes like wonderful. Right. You know, whereas if it's really not right for you and you're staying in whatever, for whatever reason, right. Some jobs, some anything, then it's, then it really is that industrial revolution working 12 hours a day in the cotton mill vibe, like where you really have been like captured.

And then put to work for someone else's idea. [00:25:00] That's not really helping you. So I'm really glad you asked that because that, especially the more that society is going through all societies, the world is going through the transformations that we know we're inside with climate change, with all sorts of things, this ability to discern what's correct for your energy.

And then to actually go towards it is going to become straight up survival skills. You know, it's, it's so important because. The difference like I was a part of my when I can testify in my own chart. I was in the financial industry for 8 or 9 years when I first started doing this work. And I think it was important.

I learned all of that. I've still used it all the time, my own business, but it was not the right fit for my chart at all. It felt terrible. I felt drained in every way. And when I finally reached this cathartic crisis point where I really had to choose to live my beliefs and to test all this with my, the fullness of my entire life, everything changed.

And even though I've been an entrepreneur, you know, for 12 years now, and there's [00:26:00] been, of course, the ups and downs of that every day I get up and do what I love and I feel energy. Right. And that's a big difference. I think you're, you brought up something so crucial. The crisis that we're in right now, the poly crisis, right?

It's not just the climate, it's all these other things as well. To, to. Be in the wrong job is a matter of survival right now. So, so if you feel completely frustrated with the state of the earth and you're still in a job that just kind of is so depressing, then, then, yeah, you, you find no more joy whatsoever in life because.

Clearly looking outside is not going to give you that joy. So, so kind of coming full circle and going within and maybe pivoting to something that contributes to, [00:27:00] to creating change or things like that, that I find like there's never been a better moment to, to do that right now. And I think there's a lot of people who are pivoting out of just kind of the soul sucking job into something that.

Yeah, it's part of the solution, right? Cause a lot of people kind of start to feel, Oh, they're actually part of the problem and not the solution. And so I think human design can really help them with that because they, you know, they tap into their strengths, into their superpowers and, and then really, yeah, feel much more fulfilled.

Let's go back to the business conversation. So you, you mentioned authority just very shortly. So for, for, for me, for example, it's, it's to, yeah, listen to my gut, right? Listen to my intuition. And if it feels like a hell yes, then I'm supposed to be doing it. And if it's kind of like, I'm not sure about [00:28:00] it, then it's probably going to drag me into the completely wrong direction.

And I'm going to feel frustration a lot of frustration and man, have I felt that? You and me both sister. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And so what kind of other authority types are there? Strategy, yeah, yeah, strategy and authority. They go together. So each type has their strategy, but then the authority. So there's so we'll discover the top 3.

There's the splenic authority and that's people whose truth is designed to be in the moment and immediate. Yes or no. It's from the spleen. I think of it as the immune. Well, it is part of the immune system, but I also think of it as the most least sense of humor voice. So if you have a splenic authority, or, you know, someone with it, they tend to say things very strongly.

So I had a friend where I'm like, Oh, do you want to have Thai? No, you know, it was like, okay. I'm not trying to make you be type, but later I understood, Oh, that was her spleen. That was [00:29:00] her immune system coming out of her throat. So the thing about the splenic authority is it's only once in the moment. So if people are not listening or overrided or trained to be, you know, good boy, good girl, it's very deep for them to begin to realize they have their truth immediately.

And that they really listening would be really good for them. The second kind, which is what you described, that's the sacral authority. And that is really the gut knowing. And it comes through sound. And this is so important. It's not logical. So for all those people with fixed mind, or, you know, the people who want you to explain logically why it's a no, there is no logic.

It's not linear. It's a different logic, but it's not like that. So when, like Sarah said, when she gets the hell, yes, it's your gut. Well, you'll, you'll hope you'll get an huh. There'll be a sound or there'll be an huh if it's not. And really that's the key point of not getting enslaved. If you are.

Because that's part of being a generator is if you have a fixed acro by definition, you're either manifesting generator or generator. So, as someone who's done both, [00:30:00] my God, the difference. So really learning to trust that, even if people are like, actually, that's how I met you, Sarah, was that you put out your first initial of this program or your current, you know, is your, your very beginning and I kept getting it.

Huh. Huh. But I was like. What? Like, you know, I was like, I don't have money for that right now. I would, but but it just kept coming and I finally got in touch with the last night being like, I just keep getting it. Yes. And it changed my whole life. I met all these wonderful people. It's just, so yeah.

So trusting the gut, even if your mind gives you all sorts of noise about it. And then the thirds, the emotional, the sack, the, the solar plexus, emotional people, which I'm one. And part of what that means is we need at least 24 hours to come to our truth. Because our truth is emotional. And I think of it as an XY axis.

And so each emotion on it's like on a, it's a wave. So, so that the more you realize someone like you could invite me to go to dinner at 9am, but I'm in a low and I'm like, Oh, I'll be too tired tomorrow at noon. I could be like, Oh, you know, it could be a good idea. [00:31:00] 3pm. I'm like, I should totally go to dinner by 6pm.

I'm like, I still don't know. But if you go the full 24 hours, at least because big decisions can take longer for sure. You'll your truth will just emerge and it'll be so simple and clear. And it just, it's effortless. And there's none of those like obsessive compulsive regrets. You know, you don't like just go to do it and then you're like, should I have done it, but so really knowing you're, you're, you're with your splint.

So I have all three as an example, but so because the emotionals, the most complex and the latest in evolution, I'm supposed to go with that one. Right. So, so if, even if you have all three, listen to them, but you go with the emotion and I can testify, absolutely. From the first day I had my reading 22 years ago, I followed that.

Invitation to not make a decision until I'd really slept on it at least 24 hours. And my God, what a difference. And whenever I don't do that, for whatever reason, I'm always like, what am I thinking? So I can. And there's so many [00:32:00] decisions we make every day in our businesses, right? Should I invest in this program or should I launch a new thing?

Or should I collaborate with this person? Like there's so many decisions and yeah, I think a lot of people are actually struggling with that. I never quite understood that because yeah, for me, it's just kind of like, I feel it. It's like, yeah, my head starts going yes or, or, or no. And then I just know. But yeah, for, for other authority or strategies, it's kind of like, well, you need to learn how to listen to, yeah, to the, to yourself and, and your voices.

Yes. Yeah, there's a, there's another thing that we're, we don't have time to get into here because again, it's so complex, the system, but there's gates and then channels and circuits, and [00:33:00] I'm just wondering if you could pick one or two that are really interesting. Business related maybe more than others and feel free to talk about mine.

That has to do with ambition. For example. Oh, okay. Great. Okay. So so what Sarah's referring to. So when you look at human design, you're looking and I think of it as a circuit board. So, so part of what you're looking at is how does the energy flow along the circuits? So if you have an entire channel, like what Sarah's talking about, it means that you have access to this channel all the time.

So one of Sarah's important channels, it has to do with the ability to rise in business and the ability to bring new ideas and new concepts to the tribe. So, But by its nature, where it's positioned inside the, the actual body graph is what it's called. It's not connected to an actual energy center. So part of what Sarah's journey is, or is to really help people like that, even every [00:34:00] way she does her thing, she's presenting these ideas, but the people really need to come in and support her.

And presenting those ideas like you need to be lifted up. It's like you can bring it out, but they need to come in. They need to participate, right? It's like a, and the more people understand that, that you're there to lead in this way or to initiate, to begin something like to really be like, Hey, we should do marketing better.

Or we really need to stop doing this other way. But that's part of people getting that it's collaborative. So they need to come in and help you build it. Right. Which I think so amazing. I really love. Yeah. I love working with your chart. Another important channels, the channel of money, and that goes from the fixed heart center to the throat.

And so the channel of money is, I mean, first of all, that's the, you know, every person's person's dream on a certain level, right? They want the channel of money, but the thing about the channel money is that. It's really understanding. So, so the 2 sides of it, each gate, there's 2 gates, and they come together to form a channel.

It's kind of like in a relationship. You've got 1 person, 1 person in the [00:35:00] relationships of 3rd entity. So, in the channel of money, 1 side of it is called the King and the Queen. It's like, they're the, that's naturally that gate of the people that naturally just. Own resources on a certain level or they just are in charge, but from birth, not from democracy.

That's another channel. But then the other gate is the caretaker of the estate. So the metaphor would be the king owns the land and then the actual caretaker of the state. So, if you have that whole channel by yourself. You actually need to bring in someone else. You need to act like the king or queen and bring in the caretaker.

Cause if you try to do both roles, you'll go crazy. Like it's really, you can't do both effectively, but that's part of where partnering, really understanding where you need to bring in a partner to help you execute. And then you can make a ton of money, which is great. Right. And it's so, so, and the, the third one that keeps being like, do me, do me.

So this one has to do with, it's from the spleen to the fixed ego, fixed heart center, and it's [00:36:00] all about the ability to sell to the tribe. So it's, this channel has, it's like, okay, we have, so Sarah brings the idea. Then this next channel actually helps pick it up and then it's like, okay, we can sell it for 1295 and this is how, so if you have that channel, you are a born salesperson.

You totally know how to frame it, how to connect with people, how to really get them to see that this is important and they should invest their money in it. I mean, even just, it makes me smile. All three of those channels, they're just, they all have such specific functions. Yeah, I love that and, and I, I love how this really, again, brings us back to collaboration and partnership because we, we really, it does take a village to build a business and human design shows that because while I have one of those channels, I don't have the other two.

And so that's why I, you know, I keep doing things in community and, and trying to yeah, rise [00:37:00] together. Yeah. And just understanding that it feels like much less heavy on my own shoulders, trying to do it all. I think that's the kind of the biggest takeaways that I've learned from human design. I remember when you did a reading for me, we kept doing these.

These signs with our hands going, yeah, less resistance, you know, if you push less, Sarah, you'll get less resistance. And yeah, I keep, you know, remembering that because. It just, yeah, it helps us to become softer with ourselves. I think that's one of the things as well, because we just kind of accept who we are and yeah, tap into our strengths, but also realize that we have things that are just not in our design.

And so we need to find partners for them. And that's actually where I love. I've done I love doing business partnership readings for that reason, or teams. [00:38:00] Because really helping them articulate and clarify. Oh, really? This person really is awesome at this, right? You know, and then this, so it really takes away a lot of.

It's like that, that humility, like, in the best way, like, oh, I'm really good at this, but I'm not good at this. Right? And I can American culture. We're just taught. You're supposed to be good at everything. Somehow. It's a weakness. If you admit, you don't know something, right? Maybe more universal, but just speaking for my own cultural context.

And I've seen with partnerships, especially like, you know, startups or, or people that are really like leading teams, the more they can really trust that they can really give these tasks to this person. And they're going to be much better at it than, you know, than they are. And then like you're saying that sense of relaxation, that sense of really getting to be like that phrase in your zone of genius.

Yeah. Right. And that, that joy, and that, that's something that so as a manifesting generator, the, the difference just to, to tie it into the previous is that manifesting generators, they, they have the ability to manifest, but they have to wait [00:39:00] like the generator. So they have an enormous amount of energy, basically, which is what I am and learning to wait and really allow life to initiate me.

And then just go for it. First of all, it has been amazing instead of trying to go for it. And then it just is not working. Right. But then second, really seeing the people, like, I have a woman I've consulted with for years. He's got that channel of the stories that knows how to sell it. And she just be like, oh, well, it's like this and this I'm like, genius.

You know, instead of me trying to come up with it, where this person's like, oh, this is like breathing. It's so easy. I don't even. See why you'd pay me for this, but like, no, really let me pay you for this because I find very valuable. Right. And I, and it, even you could tell in my voice, it's just such joy.

When you feel everybody happy because they're really doing the right thing and then they feel useful and needed and appreciated and yeah, it's, it's, it's the best. It really is the best. So good. I, I [00:40:00] kind of look down at the clock cause I'm like, okay, we need to, you know, kind of wrap it up, but I do want to give people a little preview of what we're going to be talking about on the collab workshop.

Another collaboration, right? It's like, Well, I don't know enough to talk about human design. So I'm going to bring in my people with these collab workshops. So, so yeah, tell us a little bit about what we're going to be tackling in the, in the workshop. Great. So, so again, I went and just a serious thing, we know this is complex, but we're doing our best to make it at least palatable for an intro.

So, so what we're going to be working on is something called profiles. And so the profiles. They really are even a more targeted, precise way of looking at your design and how your design is meant to interact with the whole. So, like, I'm what's called a 1 3 profile. We're the ones who get the party started.

We, we initiate from, like, nothing. Like, we really are meant to. And again, [00:41:00] the metaphor aside of going into the virgin jungle, which I don't think we should be exploiting jungle, but just for metaphor purposes, we're the first person in there and we're the ones with the machete being like, what is this place?

So we are just designed to get in there and really be on the front. That other types are designed to come in and then be like, oh, they're going to really survey the land. And then, oh, wait, they're going to be the ones that first pave the road. And then later on the line, the people who come in and really pave it.

And then it's so the more you see where you are, like, I'm a true startup person. And the moment it starts to really form is when I need to hand it off. to the next profile, right? So, so we're going to look at, it's based on the hexagram of the I Ching. So the Chinese book of changes over 2000 year old, incredible descriptive system of yin yang theory.

And we're going to look at each of the lines in the hexagram. And then we're going to look at how they relate to the different profiles. And it's, it's fat, it's very, it's precise. It's incredibly precise and so liberating to start to [00:42:00] understand your profile. Cause again, like Sarah had already mentioned.

There's a lot of ways we get conditioned to try to be what we're not, and we can become highly critical of ourselves, or we can just not understand, well, why am I like this? Or why am I not, you know, especially like your sibling or what, you know, other people, why am I not like this person? But when you know your profile more clearly, not only does it give you the confidence to be yourself, it really shows you where you're going to shine and thrive.

So in terms of business, again, like, like I know as a one three, I'm here to really help people begin, you know, and, and that beginning in many ways it spirals. So like, like you beginning to go deeper into human design. So you bring me in. So it's not just a linear idea of like at the very beginning and we never speak again.

But I know that I can really help people begin really anything because that's what I'm really good at. Right. Whereas Sarah, you have the ability. So you and I both have the ability to get to the very bottom. That's part of what we love. But Sarah's designed to [00:43:00] universalize the message. So even right now, the fact this is her podcast, she's interviewing me so beautifully, she's doing her role to help her go to a larger audience.

It's just so, it's so beautiful. And that was such a big aha for me because, you know, I kind of always hid behind this introvert title. And I thought, well, no introverts, they need to work one on one and in like small, safe, you know, circumstances. And so understanding this. Universalizing and seeing how that could work for me, even as an introvert, it was just like, Mind blowing.

I'm like, Oh, I got to write books. Oh, I got to, you know, it's like, yeah, understanding that and, and writing these books, I mean, it's so much joy for me to, to put just all my, all the stuff that I've written. Constantly goes on in my head to just put it in a book and then say [00:44:00] universe, please, you know, I'm doing my part now.

Yeah, you, you helped take it. I love that. That makes my heart smile hearing that. Cause that's exactly what I love about this. What I love about just doing it personally with people, but also just loving that it's moving more into the group mind that this is possible. And it's such a speeding. It's so it's so accelerate your learning curve as far as like, really being able to see yourself.

Really see where you can shine, where you feel inspired. Like you're saying, cause the book's perfect. It's very introverted to write the book with yourself, but the book can go out and really become a message that travels far beyond the one on one with small people, right? Yeah, so good. Well, I look forward to unpacking all the profiles and then we're also going to do four readings that you're going to look at people's chart first and then, and then kind of analyze it from this business and, and marketing angle.

[00:45:00] So can't, can't wait. What a treat. I really look forward to that. Thanks so much, Jen, for doing that. And so if. You are listening right now and you're like, Oh, I want to, you know, grab a seat right now and get my profile read. Well you can find out more at humane. marketing forward slash workshop. That's where you can sign up.

We run these with small donations, so we'd love to see it there. We need to wrap up, Jen I look forward to continuing this conversation. Please, you have a, a great YouTube video that you'd like to share that is kind of a private YouTube video. So it's not just out there for anyone, but you're sharing it with us here with the listeners to kind of get this a little bit more, maybe structured intro to what we managed to do on the podcast.

Yeah. Where can people find that? I guess I'll, I'll just put the link. That's probably the easiest. I'll put the link in the show [00:46:00] notes because it's a, it's a bit complex to, to share that. And it's a 35 minute introductory video that I shot for my clients because I, I realized just that I was saying basically, you know, similar things again and again.

I was like, why don't I just put together a really holistic beginning for human design. So yeah, so it's meant for your listeners if they're interested to go deeper, to be able to get their feet wet. And really, again, I can't emphasize enough. It's all about playing with it and testing it and trying it out.

This is about getting in the test tube. This is about really, really taking the reins of your life and being like, okay, how can I, how can I live the best life and how can this tool help me do it? Yeah. And, and once you're like really, you know, into it, then, then you can start looking at your kids charts and your parents charts.

And it's just amazing. Amazing. I know completely. Yeah. So, well, thank you so much, Cher. I really appreciate the opportunity to visit with you. It's such a pleasure [00:47:00] to call you my friend and colleague. And thank you. Yeah, just mention your website quickly if people want to find out more about you. Yeah, I'm at Jen Freeman, F R E E M A N dot C O, and it's dot C O, not dot com.

It's not a typo. And, and I love working with people. I do introductory sessions. I created my own method that combines human design, astrology, and two other systems, because I really like looking at the meta context. And also because I'm kind of crazy with data. You know, it would be enough, but I really love doing it for people and I do private coaching.

Awesome. Wonderful. Well, yeah. Can't wait to continue this conversation on the workshop. Speak to you soon. Okay. Thank you. Bye [00:48:00] [00:49:00] Sarah.

 

Here's another short episode, a conversation I had with a past participant of the Marketing Like We're Human, aka the Client Resonator program, Katica Krajinovic.

To find out more about the program, go here: http://www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps

To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page

To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This week we are joined by the Polly Hearsey to explore the transformation of business towards greater consciousness. Polly shares with us how business can act as a form of consciousness, as well as practical steps for businesses to evolve alongside our growing awareness.

We discuss ways to collaborate with nature, the benefits of aligning with natural rhythms, and offer valuable advice for solopreneurs and small business owners aiming to make their business more conscious and aligned with their values.

Tune in to discover Polly's hopes for the future of conscious business and the crucial role of community and collaboration in this inspiring journey.

This conversation aims to inspire and guide heart-centered entrepreneurs towards inner peace to create outer change.

Polly and I talked about:

• How Polly defines Conscious Business
• How business acts as a form of consciousness
• Steps businesses can take to evolve alongside our growing consciousness
• Ways businesses can collaborate with nature
  Benefits of aligning with natural rhythms for both business and Mother Earth
• Advice for solopreneurs and small business owners to make their business more conscious and aligned with their personal values
• Hopes for the future in the realm of conscious business and how we can get there
• The role of community and collaboration in this journey
• And so much more

---

Sarah: [00:00:00] Holly, thank you so much for being here on the Humane Marketing Podcast. It's good to have you with us.

Polly: I'm, I'm, I'm so honored to be here. You know, I'm really looking forward to the conversation we're going to have. Thank you so much.

Sarah: Me too. Yeah. It's been, it's been a, we've been in touch on, on LinkedIn and kind of seen each other's worlds.

Right. Yeah. And then I came across this Not a meditation, but it was on insight timer, a short talk that you posted there about conscious business and, and just how you approach business. And I'm like, ah, now it's time, you know, I have to have her on the, on the podcast, so delighted to have you here.

So we're going to be talking about. Conscious business, nature aligned business, kind of like all the things that you love to talk about. And I think that really clearly comes across. It's like, wow, she's passionate about this, right? So, [00:01:00] yeah. So maybe start with explaining what conscious business means to you.

What, what all the things that you pack under this umbrella of conscious business.

Polly: I, it's an interesting one because I think sometimes when we have terms that are upcoming in, in our world, then they mean so many different things to different people until they, they take on an accepted meaning. So for me, conscious business is really about understanding how we are consciously creating our businesses, how we're consciously contributing through our businesses.

And so that takes it in, you know, how do we treat people? How do we treat the, the environment? How do we treat our, Own sense of wellbeing in terms of being an entrepreneur as well, because it's tough to be an entrepreneur and to be a leader of a business. It's, it's hard work and it can be very damaging to your self esteem in some ways, [00:02:00] particularly when you're being asked to do things that you're not comfortable with.

I think, well, that's how I have to do it in order to be successful, but I don't like it, but I don't know that there's an alternative way. So I think that, that piece of being. Kind and conscious to yourself is as important to do as it is to be conscious of how you treat other people. And you know, for me that is if you are in a, you know, you are in a product-based business, then it's about your entire supply chain.

How, how conscious are you of your entire supply chain? But if you're in a service-based, it's like how conscious are you of the way in which you're structuring your business and you are setting your business up. So there's a lot of sustainability in it, but it's also about why am I doing this? What, why am I, why have I started my business?

So that's, that's what I really focus on is helping people understand why they've started their business. What was the driver? Because for the most part, we kind of skirt, skate on the surface a little bit, and we don't think about, you know, what, [00:03:00] what was that sort of like that soul calling that was really going on underneath my decision.

And unearthing that so that you can understand that what you really want to do through your business is create a positive impact. And I've found that every time somebody really taps into that well of, of knowledge and knowing, then they come forward with a business that is really positive. So I think that that piece of understanding yourself and what drives you to want to do this.

Helps you to discover the make conscious, the subconscious, unconscious reason that you actually started your business. So it means so many different things to me. I

Sarah: love it because it's kind of like. Yeah, it's one of these buzzwords, almost nowadays, right? It's like authentic business, conscious business.

What does that mean? It's kind of like, is it some people almost like put the spiritual business in there as well. So, so you're [00:04:00] right. It, it does. Depends on, on who you talk to. And it means different things. It sounds like for the two of us, it's, it's very aligned. I wrote down you know, consciousness of yourself, of others and mother nature.

So that's what it means to me as well. It's like, first you start with yourself. That's what we do in, in humane marketing. Then you need to look at your relationship to others. Which includes mother nature and you touched upon sustainability and, and, you know, that's obviously a big part of of conscious business.

But I actually find that the sustainability only people are often not conscious of who they are and, and themselves and relationship to others. And so it's a lot of, there's actually. It's not a healthy environment. At least it wasn't for me. I was kind of in that sustainably field for a while and I'm like, wow, it's [00:05:00] toxic in here and it doesn't feel good.

So I believe it's because they're, they're haven't done so much on their own inner work. What do you think about it?

Polly: Yeah, I think so. But also I think that there is a human, very human tendency to think we have a problem here, so I need to get into solution mode. So you get very into your head and you couldn't come up with a solution, but The thing that really strikes me about where business needs to go is that we need to tap into that well of knowing rather than knowledge that comes from our intuitive side.

both: Because

Polly: when you look at nature, for example, the complexity of the relationships in nature are so mind blowing that we can't approach that logically. It's just, you know, if you, if you think about how interconnected the Siberian tundra is to the Amazonian rainforest. Now, you, what, In a scientific way, we look at those as [00:06:00] isolated, but they're not.

We've got these little micro ecosystems and then we've got these global ecosystems. And so I think that in order for us to function effectively as communities, as societies, and to function effectively as life forms on a planet that needs us to act a little bit more responsibly, then we have to tap into that intuitive side.

And of course, people who are in a very scientific, logical space

both: that

Polly: they haven't, it's not, probably not even occurred to them that they need to do that, but they're still doing something positive, but they're not creating a conscious environment. around it. And I think that's where you and I sort of like really see things in the same way, is, is that we need to create a different environment.

And that means changing how you think. It means not just changing how you act, you have to change how you feel as well. So you want to come into it with a feeling of self belief, actually, self belief that you can [00:07:00] make a difference. I think that is, that's the key. The number one stumbling block that people have, they have all this energy welling up inside them and there's things that they want to do.

But the first big stumbling block is, Oh, can I really make a difference?

Sarah: Yeah. And, and those are exactly the people that we need right now to have this courage and boldness to step up and bring and use business as this lever to make a difference, right? Yeah, so true. You. In this talk, you mentioned this shift that, you know, we kind of all, I think a lot of people that I talk to notice that there's some kind of shift going on.

They can't really finger point it or they don't exactly know what's going on, but they're like, something is happening. So yeah. Talk to us a little bit about this consciousness shift. And what that means for our businesses and why maybe [00:08:00] so many people are unhappy with their business right now. So I

Polly: think, I mean, I have to unwrap it.

I mean, it's so, it's so complex, but I do think as we've got more technological and we've become more interconnected, but without the human connection that We've obviously got shorter attention spans. I mean, that's certainly, you know, you'll, you'll hear people talking about that in marketing settings, attention spans are getting shorter.

So you need to box everything in and to, you know, get people's attention in shorter periods of time. And I think what is happening is the reaction to that. So it's not being articulated. It's not fully conscious yet. But the reaction to that is we need more meaning. We need more depth. We need more connection.

We need more contact. We need to be seen as individuals. We need to be responded to as individuals. And if I look at the business, it's particularly the online business space, it has been absolutely spectacular. paint splattered with [00:09:00] blueprints and do these things and just, you know, this, this is how you do it.

And, you know, you guaranteed success if you follow this, this process. I just think everyone's just had enough of that and they're fed up with this not being seen. As who they are. And if they're not being seen, then what they want to create isn't being seen. So I think that to me underpins the shifts, but there are some, you know, there are some very noticeable shifts in by a behavior engagement and interaction.

All of that's changed. And I think we are now definitely moving into a space where depth is required. So I've been saying this a lot in my community is saying, The, the push is to go harder, shorter, faster, put out more and more and more and saying reverse that, go deeper, go slower, and you know, you're gonna have a better relationship.

So you may not have thousands of likes, you may not have thousands of engagements, but the ones that you have are going to be [00:10:00] completely different quality.

both: And I

Polly: think that's what happens when you, when you start to believe that you can operate in a different way, you shift the baseline, the baseline of expectation, and that begins to shift the culture.

So I think it's like this, we start the whole process from the very bottom, because we are never going to get big corporations to change their minds. We're not going to get governments to change their minds. The only way those are going to change their minds is when they see that everything underneath them has already changed.

Sarah: Yeah. So. Yeah, the bottom up movement this time around. Yeah, definitely. I totally agree. I totally agree with the depth as well. And the, the meaning so, yeah, how, how can we then change our businesses? If we do kind of feel this emptiness, how do we change our businesses towards more meaning, towards, you know, more of these human interactions?

Yeah, [00:11:00] take us there.

Polly: Well, I think in terms of changing the business, the first thing you had, and this is an uncomfortable thing to do. The first thing you have to do, if you just got to the point where I've got so far and now I just feel empty, I'm not really in the game. I don't buy into the label that I've got.

It's all feels. Kind of meaningless and I've just been chasing a metric in order to make myself feel successful. The first thing we have to do is actually sort of like unpack the business. The way I look at what I do is it's like, it's almost like take the pieces, take all the pieces apart and have them all there.

Because what I've found is that there's Pieces of you that are missing from your business. You know, we all have these experiences. We have these perspectives. We develop these skillsets and we have these interests as well. And we're told to sort of focus and get really specific. But if we take all of the mechanics of our businesses to pieces, almost sort of.

Metaphorically, you say, [00:12:00] well, actually there's space for that. That bit of you makes sense. And so taking people back to why that's important to them, what they've learned from it and what they're, what it's, what it's meant to them. how it's shaped them really, helps them to say, Oh, that's why I approached this other bit that I've always been working on in this particular way.

So I've worked with a lot of people who've just, they've, they've reached a very high level in their industry and then just gone, no, I can't do it anymore. And they, they want to, they want to burn their businesses down at that point. And it's like, you don't need to burn it down because everything that you've learned is valid moving forward.

You might not use it in the same way, but it shaped you in some way. And I think that's, that's one of the ways that we start. And the other thing is, I think it is really important to reflect on. How your business is functioning within your community, functioning within the business community is a wider thing.

So it's interesting. I've listened to a few talks and sort of like round [00:13:00] tables on the shifts that are happening recently. And what I found really interesting from some of the big names, they'd be, you know, that we're talking sort of like. You know, quite established, large revenue businesses, but they're talking about unraveling it a lot.

They've got these big teams, everything's automated and they're going, I need to unravel it. I need to actually start talking to people and making space to have those conversations. And they actually don't know how to do that. The beauty of it is if you're a bit smaller, is that you can, and you haven't got a large team and you haven't got a load of mechanics, That you need to sort of like account for and pay for, then you can actually start to do that through your philosophy, through your ethos.

So that's one of the things I really work a lot with people on is their value system.

both: Because if

Polly: you've got your value system, it changes how you approach the whole creative process in business. And then you start to say, well, actually I can create anything I want to, I don't have to follow the model.

[00:14:00] And that, I think, you know, coming back to self belief being one of the, the first stumbling blocks, the second one is, can I really do things completely differently? Yeah, you can, you can.

Sarah: Yeah. And you mentioned big names, right? I think the last 15 years, that's all we've ever done, or most people have done.

It's like, oh, there's these, you know, we can probably count them on two hands. These are the ones who made it. So now we need to all. Create the businesses just like them, and this is how it's done. And they'll sell you the 2, 000 course in, in how it's done. And yet those are the ones who are now, you know, they're not sharing it openly, but yeah, they're kind of hinting at the unraveling things and they're like, huh, people are not buying my online course anymore.

I wonder why, you know, people

Polly: don't want any more information. They've had too much

Sarah: human connection in these courses. Right. So. Yeah. It's, it's so [00:15:00] interesting. There is

Polly: definitely a slide happening, some of the big names are struggling to, you know, some of the, some of them are still doing really well. I mean, and for, for many of us, they would be like, still be very happy to be doing as well as they are at the moment, but they, of

Sarah: course, but they also have much higher overhead.

Oh yes. I mean, you know, they have insane neighborhoods, a lot of spendings and, and so they're now struggling with, you know. Yeah,

Polly: yeah, yeah. And I, I think a very light agile business is important now. Ah, yeah. 'cause you're more responsive, much freer. If you can bootstrap a s a solution to something, then bootstrap it.

Why get yourself anchored into spending hundreds, maybe thousands of pounds or euros or dollars a year. To have systems there that you don't actually need to have. Right. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I mean, it, it really depends on what you want for your business. And I do think, I was thinking about this this morning again, is [00:16:00] like this constant stuff, like you must hit six figures, you must hit seven figures, you may go multi seven figures or whatever.

both: Right.

Polly: And you just go, it, it's a nonsense statement. Right. Because if you take, Somebody hitting six figures in Australian dollars, they're earning significantly different to somebody hitting six figures in US dollars. And for us in the UK, it means doing twice what somebody in Australia is doing to, to, to get that.

So it's a complete nonsense, but also takes no account of the cost of living in different countries. And so the benchmarks that we have, it's like, why do we have them? Yeah. They mean nothing. Right. It's so important to say, this is my business, this is what's important to me. And you'll never be able to do that unless you actually stop and say, who am I?

What am I here to do? And who do I want to help?

Sarah: Mm. Exactly.

Polly: Three very simple questions. How do

Sarah: I define success if it's not [00:17:00] the money part anymore, right? What is success for me? What does my life what I want my life to look like? How do I want to spend my days? My weeks? You know, yeah. What kind of metrics can I find there that are not money related?

Polly: It's

Sarah: interesting,

Polly: isn't it? Because so many people talk about, Oh, let me show you how to get to your first job. five figure week or whatever, and that's all they talk about. And yet, if you ask a question to people about what does success mean to you, they won't say it's about money. Like one in a hundred will say it's money.

Most will say it's about me feeling that I can express myself. It's feeling fulfilled, feeling like I'm making an impact, feeling like I'm helping people. So if that's what really matters to people, why are we still selling them ways to make money? Why aren't we selling them ways to find themselves? and express themselves and feel happy.

Sarah: Yeah. And traditionally also people who have more money have [00:18:00] less time, which also feels like a really silly thing to strive for. It's like, well, you know, what if I don't even have time to spend that money anymore? It's like, what's the point? That story of,

Polly: The fishermen on the beach with the executive.

It's just like classic, it's like go all the way around in a circle. It's like, well, yeah, and I'm here exactly where I need to be without a fleet of fishing boats.

Sarah: Exactly. Yeah. I, I tell the same story with an olive tree growth keeper in, in Sicily in the marketing like for human books. So same idea just with all of trees.

Right. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with all of that. Let's, let's go and. You know, I just imagined what I want my life to look like. And immediately what come to me, came to mind is, well, nature outside. I want to be more outside. So let's head a little bit in that direction, [00:19:00] because that's also something you talk about is how to align your business with nature.

So what do you work on with clients there?

Polly: Well, it's an interesting one because I'm still, I don't think I'll ever feel that I've. Got a full understanding of what I'm doing that and I've got okay with that, but because I'm always going to learn a little bit more, but it's really about sort of like learning who we are in nature, learning how nature works, not to mimic it, but to remember that we are nature and therefore that we operate according to natural principles.

There are no business. Principles that, you know, in the mainstream that are natural, they are all completely imposed and nature never thrives when you impose something on it, it always needs to come from within. So I think that's another thing. It's like bringing that process of coming from within. So I love sending, sending my clients out [00:20:00] into nature with their business questions, because if you just want to sit in a, in a quiet space with the thing that is bothering you the most, And then just look around a bit and see what solutions nature comes up with.

You just go, okay, yeah, there's different ways of doing it. So it can be as simple as that, but also thinking about, you know, how do like in my membership, we were coming into a new season. We're going to be working on the voice and working with nature. So be working with the bullfinch, which is one of the finches and that, you know, they're renowned for their songs.

And if you think about bird song, birds have functional calls and they have Aesthetic calls, you

both: know,

Polly: say, and we, we think of the voice as being something functional, or we think of the voice as being something aesthetic, but you know, there, there are two sides to that. So it's like learning lessons as simple as that, but what's the aesthetic of your voice?

What's the function of your voice? How do you [00:21:00] balance function and aesthetic? Because there's no two, you can't mistake two different birds. Well, you probably can, but you know, the bird calls something, something as simple as that is profoundly influential in terms of how you think about it. And that's, that's where I'm playing at the moment.

But I do have this belief that businesses can become part of the ecosystem. So at the moment we have this sustainability sort of like, I need to mitigate the impact of my business. on the environment. I believe that it's possible, and I don't know how yet, but I believe it's possible for businesses to become part of the ecosystem.

But I do know that it comes back to who you are. and remembering your nature and remembering how to work with nature at an individual level in order that makes that possible. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that's part of the, [00:22:00] the knowing piece, knowing that that's possible, but also appreciating that I have absolutely no idea what that looks like yet.

You sort of get little glimpses, glimpses of it. But You know, I have a client who, who makes bark flower essences and their space around the, where they make them, and it's not a factory, it's, you know, it's a very small, small unit, but the space around them is managed in a very particular way where it feels like the entire manufacturing and office space is part of that.

So there's sort of like hints at, at that, but you know, I have an online business. What does that mean for me?

both: And

Polly: it means, how do I bring nature into my business? How do I contribute to nature through my business? And that's not, I do think that sort of like philanthropy and things like that. I'm not dissing it in any way.

But I think that's a fix for [00:23:00] compensation, whereas we can be contributing in a very conscious way.

Sarah: I love, I love your questioning because clearly if you would just say, well, here are the seven steps, you know, I would probably go, yeah, I don't know about that. So it's, again, I think everyone has to find out in a way for themselves, but they have to be open.

To receiving the message and for example, what you just shared about the bird song. I, yeah, I don't know that I knew about the bird having two kinds of songs. So that, yeah, that's just kind of like, oh, that's really interesting. And then what I thought of is like, What I share about in the, in my marketing, like we're human program, we look at the marketing techniques that are unique for each individual.

Right. And so people, some people will, will, [00:24:00] and we also look at the human design a little bit. And so some people will want to use their voice. Because maybe other people have told them, you have a nice voice or, you know, it's like you have this soothing voice or whatever. Like they just know that they want to use their voice.

And, and so we, we, you know, we say, Oh, maybe you have a podcast or maybe you do videos or like, it's like, yeah, that is somehow, I guess. Related to nature, because it's how you are built, how, you know, your design is built. You were given a nice voice, and so why not use it in your, in your marketing,

both: for

Sarah: example.

Yeah, absolutely.

Polly: The thing that I come back to all the time is that nature, life is diversity.

both: Right.

Polly: There isn't one solution to everything. So I look at things like electric cars and just go, well, this clearly, we're not [00:25:00] listening to nature because nature does not have one solution across the entire globe.

It has different solutions in different places. And that to me is a massive lesson for business that says that we need diversity in the business place. If we're going to see people as individuals and respond to people as individuals, then we need diversity in our businesses, diverse business models, diverse focuses, diverse niches, whatever.

So we need to remember, and I think that's what we go to is nature, to learn that, is to learn how to be creative. Right. Yeah. I mean, we, we are on a rock floating in space that producing the most extraordinary diversity of life. And we forget that we're part of that diversity of life and that we're all individuals and all unique.

And, you know, you look at any, any plant on the planet. You know, and there might be [00:26:00] thousands and thousands of the same plant, but they're not the same plants. They're individuals within that. And that's kind of, to me, is remembering that every, everything on, in, on this earth is an individual. And it has a, however you want to phrase it, it has a consciousness, it has an energy, it has a presence.

in the whole, and we need to learn to value that. And I think anything that I can do to help people see what they'd never seen before is, is really helping because we, do we look that closely? You know, we got plant blindness. We look

Sarah: outside, we look outside for solutions. That's the immediate reaction, usually.

Polly: So anything that we can do to like, slow down and look more closely, I think is going to have a profound effect on the trajectory of consciousness and the trajectory of life on, on earth as well.

both: So

Polly: little things like that. So you can get very [00:27:00] frustrated about governments are so slow to change policy.

But policy is about an imposition and people rebel against imposition. If it comes from within, if it's coming from a genuine place of this is me and this is what I want to do, then it becomes something that people want to do and it changes culture. It change, change, changes society from the inside out and then everything else has to follow suit.

Otherwise it's completely out of step and

Sarah: Yeah, we have huge power. We have so much power really do. And, and, and I just want to, I know you, you are of the same opinion because you have your community as well. So it's not that we're saying you need to be individual and not be in community, right?

Because you're just. Your own lone wolf. That's not what we're saying. And I always look to astrology also. And we, we [00:28:00] have Pluto in Aquarius now, which represents this idea of the individual in community. So we can be completely, uniquely different. And yet, if we have the same values, we are together in community and are strong in community.

Because it doesn't mean that we're uniquely different, that we can't find things in common, and that we can't create things, co create things in common. And that's the beauty of these communities, is that, because the old way was kind of like, top down, everybody needs to be the same to be in this six figure club, you know.

And now it's like, no, everybody can be completely their own unique design. And yet we have a common worldview and yeah, that's, that's really the beauty of the times.

Polly: And if you, if you do spend any time looking in nature, you'll see that it's collaborative, but that that's, it's structured on collaboration.

We, [00:29:00] you have to look to see that. And I think people are beginning to look more. Vichy, if you look at I need to find a way to produce this as a video. So there's, it's, it's visual, but if you. If you take a stone, perfectly, or a sphere, or whatever, it's perfectly rounded, if you place 12 people around that, Each one of those has got a completely different perspective on the same thing.

And that's what we need to value. So collaboration is really important. And actually the ability to deliver on a purpose, which might be, you and I have a very similar purpose. You know, we've got the same slight vision of where we're going. We can't do it on our own. It's actually strengthened by working together.

So community to me is absolutely integral to recreating the vision of business. Really important. So you need to be a unique individual in a community and valued for that. There's a wonderful, it's just popped into my head. There's a [00:30:00] wonderful story that some African tribe where they, have a song that they sing to that individual.

So that's, they don't have a name, they have a song. And at various points through their life, they sing them their song. So it's a unique song to that person. And that really speaks to me about how you, you value the individual. And the uniqueness of the individual, but that individual is part of a whole, it's part of a community and is necessary.

And we've devalued our individual contributions to the level that people have this problem with self belief.

both: But actually,

Polly: we have huge amounts of power by connecting to ourselves and knowing who we are and then doing something about it.

Sarah: Yeah, so if we bring this conversation full circle, it really feels to me like this consciousness really starts with knowing yourself, right?

All this inner [00:31:00] work that you and I have been talking about for so many years, but it, it felt like people were like, not interested. And she's like, well, no, but I want the six figures. And I just want the clients. And it's like, no, but that you'll get there and you will get much better clients. You will feel much more aligned if you start from within.

Polly: Yeah, absolutely. It changes the game completely because I say this to people all the time. And I think they're a little skeptical initially is that if you are really tapped into who you are and you're doing your thing. Then those clients will come to you with zero resistance. So all that training that we've had about how to overcome objections and making sure, you know, will people pay and all those things that have been drilled into people that made them really nervous and alarmed.

both: Right.

Polly: But doesn't happen when somebody says. I've sought you out and I want to work with you because I have seen what you've [00:32:00] produced. So, you know, producing content and stuff like that is important in terms of being able to get our message out to the world, but actually it's really just a, it's a portal through which people can move towards us.

And makes it possible, like you said, you need to use your voice if your voice is there, you need to use your words if it's your words or, you know, you need to just use your face if that's what it is. There are lots of different ways, but we have to find our way that matches the energy of what we're trying to bring forward.

Sarah: And I feel like what we're doing and people who do similar work is, it's just giving people the courage to use their voice because it's those hidden talents is those people who, who do good work that until now didn't get any of the visibility because they wanted nothing to do with the marketing stuff that they saw out there.

And so what we're doing is just telling them, well, there's a different way to do it. You can do it. Align with nature. You can [00:33:00] align and do it align with who you are, right? Yeah. And I think

Polly: one of the, our jobs because we've, we've been out front for a while that's not to say we're any better, but we've been out front for a while is that our job is to create a sense of safety in doing that.

And I don't know about you, but I know that I've had some very sort of like uncomfortable, you know, spaces to move through personally in order to get myself comfortable with talking about, I mean, if you told me 10 years ago, I was going to be talking about Nate, you know, nature as a business mentor, I don't know.

People laughed at us. Yeah, exactly. But so it's been not necessarily a comfortable process, but one of our jobs as mentors and supporting our communities is to create safety, to say it's okay.

Sarah: Yeah, exactly. Create a community of people who are there to, you know, support each other because yeah, sometimes it's not enough if just one person tells you it's safe, but a community.

Polly: We need [00:34:00] spaces where we feel safe.

Sarah: Yeah.

Polly: And we need spaces where we can talk about things that we may not feel safe to talk about or comfortable to talk about, or just worry that we won't be received because people would have a clue what we're talking about. And sometimes you just need to just go, you know, as we, you and I did when we, we had a conversation, we were just like, splurges all out.

And it was okay because we both knew what we were going through. And so it's okay. So I think that is a really important piece to say, and that, you know, every person who steps forward and starts to use their voice then becomes a leader that other people find safety with. So it's the exponential effects of every single person who does this.

We speed up the whole process of changing things for the better.

Sarah: So good. Yeah, I can see the future clearly in front of me. It's beautiful. Please do share With people who are listening, where they can find out more about your work, your [00:35:00] community, your Insight Timer talks and meditations, all of that.

Polly: Everything is accessible, I can't say the word, accessible through my website, which is polyhearsey. co. uk. So if you just go there, you've got the link straight to Insight Timer, you get linked through to my events. And if you want to join my mailing list and keep up to date, then I send out just one a week email a week.

So just With my latest thoughts. So everything's fine.

Sarah: This has been so much fun. We have to do it again. Thanks so much, Polly, for being on the show. Thank you so much for having me.

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps

To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page

To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

In this week's episode we sit down with Anne Rajoo to explore the concept of Peaceful Productivity. Anne shares the necessary mindset shifts to move from constant busyness to a more serene and effective work approach. We delve into practical strategies for identifying needle-moving actions, delegating tasks, and removing distractions, as well as essential advice for setting and maintaining boundaries between work and rest.

Anne also highlights the importance of self-care in sustaining productivity and offers her recommended practices.

Additionally, we cover how delegation can future-proof your business and how to view a Virtual Assistant as an investment in growth and peace rather than a cost.

This episode aims to inspire and guide quietly rebellious entrepreneurs towards being more efficient while maintaining peace of mind, in line with humane marketing principles.

In this episode we talked about:

• Anne's definition of Peaceful Productivity
• The necessary mindset shifts to move from constant busyness to peaceful productivity
• Strategies for identifying needle-moving actions and delegating or removing distractions
• Advice for setting and maintaining boundaries between work and rest
• The importance of self-care in sustaining productivity, and recommended practices
• How delegation can help future-proof our businesses
• Shifting perspective to see a VA not as a cost, but as an investment in growth and peace
• And so much more

--

Peaceful Productivity

Sarah: [00:00:00] Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy.

I'm Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded people.

Quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what works and what doesn't work in business. Then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a zoom circle workshop.

To hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. We share with transparency and vulnerability what works for us and what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you, instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at Humane dot marketing forward slash circle.

And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing sales, general business building, or help with your big idea, like writing a book, I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable.

If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one on one client. You can find out more at humane. marketing forward slash coaching. And finally, if you are a marketing impact pioneer and would like to bring humane marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at humane.

marketing.

Welcome back friends. Today I'm talking to Anne Rajoux about peaceful productivity. I put it under partnership because you're either partnering with yourself to be more productive or you're delegating some tasks and partnering with someone else. Before I tell you a bit more about Anne, just a quick plug and reminder that if you're listening to this on the day that it comes out, June 28th, you have two more days to take advantage of the 400 off with the super early bird for the Marketing Like We're Human [00:03:00] program.

As of June August 22nd, I'll take another cohort through my flagship program that goes really deep into creating your foundational marketing clarity by starting with yourself and bringing more of you to your marketing. And that's actually not just for Beginning entrepreneurs, often the people who come to the program, they're already two or three years in, because it's something that we kind of don't have time when we're first starting out.

We're just putting quickly our website together and, you know, then immediately go on Facebook or LinkedIn or Instagram. And we forget about that foundational clarity, especially making sure that it. It comes from within. It comes from who we are. So it really is a transformational program that helps you grow into that person that achieves the goals that you set yourself.

People ask me about the outcomes. [00:04:00] Yes. You know, it's about resonance with clients and yes, you will get more clients because you grow into that person that can get more clients. So it's about marketing, but it's so much more. It's so much deeper. Have a look at the details humane dot marketing forward slash program and you find an orange button there to book a call with me Do that as soon as possible Again, if you're listening before June 30th You should get the 400 off and if you're listening to this in July, you still benefit from the early bird, which is 200 of the group rate and of course if you're Since you're listening to this podcast, you're really already familiar with the seven Ps and that's what we go into depth in, and it's a hybrid program, so there's a, a video piece to the program with extensive workbooks.

I've worked on this program for a whole year in 2019, ran through it with three [00:05:00] beta groups, so it's a solid. Really a solid program. And you can see that in the case studies and testimonials that you find on this page. I'd love to have you in the group. I think if you're listening to this podcast, you know what humane marketing is all about.

You know that, you know, we're creating change and to create that change, well, you need to bring it out there into your marketing, your worldview, your values, more of you, all of that. Okay, back to Anne. So Anne is a creative force behind peaceful productivity with the goal to guide dynamic and ambitious women on a journey towards a mindful mastery of work and life, reshaping the way we perceive productivity.

Additionally, she's the founder of virtual Virtufully a boutique launch VA agency that empowers female entrepreneurs to introduce their products, services, and [00:06:00] programs in a peaceful yet impactful way with support, compassion, and integrity. Anne's dream of living an extraordinary life has brought her from a tiny village in East Germany to London and eight years ago to Mauritius, where she lives with her husband and two boys.

She's on a mission to join forces to redefine success and create a harmonious blend of professional achievement and success. And personal fulfillment and, and I talked about humane business and, you know, what that means for her. And I'm going to include her story in, in the new book that's coming up. And then from there.

We're like, she, she was telling me about peaceful productivity and you can tell from the bio that our worldviews are just so much aligned. So in this episode, we talked about Anne's definition of peaceful productivity, the necessary mindset shifts to move from [00:07:00] constant busyness to peacefulness. To peaceful productivity strategies for identifying needle moving actions and delegating or removing distractions advice for setting and maintaining boundaries between work and rest, the importance of self care in sustaining productivity and recommended practices, how delegation can help future proof our businesses, and then shifting perspective to see a VA not as a cost, but But as an investment in growth and peace, I hope you'll enjoy this episode as much as Anne and I enjoyed recording it.

Hi Anne, how are you? It's so good to have you on the podcast.

Anne: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here, Sarah.

Sarah: Yeah, it's lovely to have you. And this, as we were sharing before we hit record this topic of peaceful productivity, I think [00:08:00] it's just so needed right now. You and I had a little conversation about the third book that I'm writing about business, like we're human and how that really fits in with peaceful productivity.

Right. And that's why I, I wanted to have this conversation with you. So why don't you start by sharing how you define peaceful productivity? Like, what does that

Anne: mean for you? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is, it's so interesting. It's, it's still very much an evolving concept and journey for myself, but really it's, it's this intersection between the doing and creating the output and achieving the goals that we've set, creating the input that we're here in the world to, to create, but also maybe not doing as much and doing more in the sense of enjoying life and enjoying the moment, being present, really tuning into what lights [00:09:00] me up and what are things that I don't really like to do or want to do and, and, and focusing on this mix.

Yes. Okay. We, we have to create some sort of work and maybe have a routine and, and have some outcome, but at the same time, there's more to being productive than just showing, oh, I hit my goals. I've ticked the boxes. I've crossed out all the to do's on my list, because at the end of the day, if we don't have that balance, Then we often hit burnout.

So many people have gone through that. I've gone through that myself several times. So it's this mixture of the doing that being, and, and just changing the mindset about what it means to be productive.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. I love that so much. And I think there's, there's so much pressure. On this productivity, you know, yes, you were sharing just before that you were in a corporate job.

And so there's the, that kind of [00:10:00] pressure there where, you know, productivity is linked to how you climb up the ladder, but then funnily enough, most entrepreneurs then take that with them into entrepreneurship. Right. And it's not like we say, Oh, now I'm, I'm my own boss and now I can, you know, decide how I'm going to be productive.

No, we still have this idea of, no, I need to work at least eight, if not 10 hours per day and do all of these things. So. It's, it's so true. It's really this mindset shift that we, we need to, we need to make in order to, yeah, make it a peaceful productivity. So yeah, it's so, so, so relevant. So how do you feel with the work that you're doing with, with your clients?

How do you feel about the societal shift? Pressure, like, does that come over in your conversations with clients? Is that a thing that they often mention?

Anne: Yeah. I [00:11:00] mean, it's really often conversations of like, and there's just too much to do. I have all these ideas. I have all these other responsibilities.

Most of my clients are moms who have a business and it's just, it's constantly feeling like there is not enough time in the day. There's too many things to do. There's all this pressure of like, Oh, Business should be done in this certain way, because that's how people are used to doing business. You've got to show up consistently, and you have, it's all these halves that we, we see elsewhere, and, and you work with people, I mean, like, I mean, I'm totally into coaching, and I have.

Support and all of that. But quite often I feel like a lot of people also kind of get a bit confused with, you should be doing it like this and that's the process. And if you don't do it, then you do it wrong or you're not going to achieve the outcome. And it's all these like mixed messages that we receive.

And then that in a [00:12:00] sense of like, it's not working for me. This is not the life that I want to build. This is not why I came into business. And it's, it's a lot of that, like feeling. Overwhelmed, feeling like just constantly too much to do, not knowing where to start, and then feeling quite confused. And yeah, it was so You know, going, going down on, on yourself, like a lot of women have that tendency of being quite negative.

They're just not working hard enough. Or today you took too much time to clean the kitchen instead of doing that thing. And like all that inner talk that we have. And that's a lot of conversations that I hear. And a lot of women are pretty fed up with that constant inner dialogue. And this feeling of like just never achieving.

Or never Coming up to that level of the expectations they have on themselves or also that society has on them And just yeah, not feeling like they holding up with that Grand image [00:13:00] that we we should represent today that women can do so many things and we couldn't do it all We have it all and they don't feel like that really

Sarah: Yeah.

Yeah. So, so many things you said resonated. It's this idea of the shoulds and and I've also this idea of perfectionism. What comes up for me also in the entrepreneurial world is this image that everything should be free. You know, we should have all these free things and free content and content creation, content columns.

All of this stuff. Production that we're creating that is not paid time and that over the last 15 years has been kind of Like put in the spotlight as that's just how you are supposed to run a business as an entrepreneur. And when you kind of counter position that with someone who is in a paid job, it, it, it's, it's like, if you think about it, it's [00:14:00] crazy how much time as entrepreneurs, we are supposedly just being productive for free compared to someone who has a paid job.

Right. Right. And I think that's part of also my revolution in terms of the humane business, humane marketing, it's like, Well, who says we have to spend all of this time for free productivity, right? Like I can, I'm my own boss, you're your own boss. So we decide where it ends. Yes, obviously it's a good thing and I still am for that, that there's free offers.

But, but there's a limit to it because otherwise we burn out. So right now we're, we're hosting this expo in the humane marketing circle, and it's kind of like a summit. But when you look at these other summits out there and you then talk to the summit hosts after the summit, they're all exhausted and burned [00:15:00] out.

I know because I've been there, like I've hosted five summits. You too. And it's exhausting and it's all for free. And it's like, in the end, also when you ask them, honestly, what did you get up? Yes. Lots of contacts, but not really, you know, the money equation doesn't always really work out. So it's just kind of like questioning all our assumptions, I guess as well.

Right. So having that conversation, like you said. Well, is this working for you? And if it isn't, how are you going to do it differently? Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Anne: Yeah. For me, this brought up so many more societal thoughts there as well, because obviously as women, we are, we are often raised to give, you know, to take care of other people, again, give free content, give.

Free, whatever it is. And also this whole money mindset thing. A lot of women struggle with me included, you know, like how much is my home, but what's my worth, [00:16:00] how much can I charge and what's too much. And I want to be accessible to many people because I want to change the world. I mean, this is a lot of conversations I have, and that goes in my, my own dialogue as well, and I want to make it.

Available for the greater good, but then at the end of the day, yeah, the time and money equation doesn't always work out very well. So those things and again, it's like sometimes you have to be a bit rebellious in your sense to be like, okay, yeah, this is I see a lot of people do it. Like this, it's not working for me.

I've got to do it differently. And that can be uncomfortable

Sarah: and

Anne: challenging to actually go and do it. But this is exactly what, why I came up with peaceful productivity because yes, I love being productive, but the way I've been doing it was just not working at all. So something was missing and that's the peaceful part.

And like, just what you described in the marketing world as well, it's not always working properly and it can definitely be improved and changed.

Sarah: [00:17:00] I want to go into, you know, your framework of the peaceful productivity, but beforehand I just also want to mention a book that we both love which is essentialism by Greg McCown.

It's still my absolute favorite business book. And, and you said you loved it as well. So, so what kind of. takeaways have you implemented from that book or what were your main aha moments from reading that book?

Anne: I think for me it was really bridging this thing of, okay, I've got, I'm, I'm very multi passionate and very multi skilled and I have, and I enjoy having lots of projects going on, but at the same time, always refocusing on like, What's the day to day?

How do I feel? And what's really essential to making another step towards the goal and always bringing myself back to that is that really? Should I really be doing that? And something that I've really learned through my work where [00:18:00] I'm also running a virtual assistance agency is like looking at like, what am I doing?

And is that really my job? Or is there someone else better suited for that? And how can I use my time better? And for me that spills into my life as well. As a mom of two children I spend a lot of time with my children because that's how, my choice that I'm making. But it's also sometimes, you know, Going back, is it essential for me to be right there with them focused, or is it okay for them to do whatever they're doing, even if it's on the tablet for a little bit, so that I can do my work?

It's like really always tuning in. Is it essential? I love the word essential, and then just really looking at the things I'm doing, and then getting rid of the stuff that is not essential. Like really getting rid of it, removing it entirely, or piling it up somewhere else for that time, when it's the right time to look at these things.

Sarah: Yeah, yeah. I love that. And it's similar for me. I love how you differentiated, you know, [00:19:00] business and work to me. It's almost like. They've become one. So it's like the, the, the essential things that I say yes to in work always need to align with the essential things in, in, in my personal life. Right. And so it's very similar to, to what you shared.

And I think the one thing also that I take away from that. So it's, it's a, it's very much about decision making. This book is helping you with, like, every time you need to make a decision in your business or in your life, you're going to go back to, is this essential? And I think what he shares also, it's, it's quite easy to, or it's, it gets easier with time to say no to the non essential things.

But when you're really mastering it is when you can say no to even things that do matter to you, but you just know that right now is not the right time. Right. And so that's what you said [00:20:00] before. It's like, okay, put them to another folder or like, not now, but, but later or never like, or never because you just know, no, this is not my thing.

Not in this lifetime. Exactly. Yeah. True. Yeah. Wonderful. Okay. Well, let's move on to your framework of peaceful productivity. Tell us a little bit about how you work with people through this idea of being more productive, but in a peaceful way.

Anne: Yeah. So for me, a peaceful productivity has three pillars. One is the productivity tools, hacks, techniques, whatever you want to call them, all these You know, applications to Pomodoro technique, finding your high performance time, like we all different in like, some people work better in the morning.

Some people work better later in the afternoon or evening, like really looking at, you know, what are the [00:21:00] things that work for me, trying some on for size and see what fits and then letting go of others, because not, not one technique works for everyone. Also like looking at what phase in your life are you in, what, what You know, what does your day look like and how can you make it more productive using the tools and techniques that are available?

And then there's the mindset, which is a lot of what, what we just talked about, the societal beliefs that we have, you know, ingrained in us, the beliefs That we have developed over time, like, you know, often attaching our well value and worth to our output and looking at what's there that maybe is not working quite well and what's there that we maybe have to change.

And then the third pillar is creativity, because for me, creativity is essential. Personally, I get a lot of energy from doing something creative, so it could really be doing the creative stuff and being like drawing and making, but you don't have to be an artist. So really. [00:22:00] Identify yourself as a creative.

The creativity can also be in terms of, let's try something different. Let's play around with what we have. Today looks like that. What technique can I put in here? What mindset will I look at today? And just piling it up in a big, You know, pot and mixing it up and just be creative about it and see what the outcome is problem solving.

Obviously, we all mostly know that creativity helps with problems problem solving. So it's that part of like playful and just trying things that maybe you haven't tried before because that's when things could shift like, Oh, Interesting. That was actually quite nice. And I didn't expect that to work so well for me.

Let's do, let's focus on that and let's hone in on that. So it's really these three elements. And I work with, with clients, mostly one on one where we have a sort of audit or assessment of like, what's there right now, going in all the different pillars that I've just mentioned. Then we [00:23:00] come together, we have a conversation, we share some, You know, thoughts and tips that I have gained over the period of time that I've been doing that and I help my clients to implement then because obviously we have a lot of knowledge, but if we don't go and You know, find a way to have that going on a daily basis.

Not, not much is going to change. So it's that process of like identify what's happening right now, see what can be changed and improved and then implementing and refining. And that's my camera gone again, because you're back.

Sarah: That's yeah, that's, that's great. I love how you combine the doing. Or, or more like the.

The left brain, which is the tools and the strategies with the right brain, which is the creativity, right? Because I think kind of in the traditional way that I've seen people talk about productivity, it's mainly like. Left brain, it's like, you know, Excel spreadsheets [00:24:00] in that kind of more, yeah, left brain approach.

And I love how you bring in the creativity, which makes it much more fun for your clients to, yeah, to be productive. I love that. Yeah. Can you, maybe you mentioned the Pomodoro technique. Can you maybe, well, for people who don't know what that is, share about that. And then maybe you have one other strategy that you, or tool that, that you usually give clients and would like to share here.

Anne: Yeah, sure. Yeah. So Pomodoro is this concept of you work for a stretch of, I believe, 20 minutes, and then you take a break and then you go back to work and you take a break and so on and so on. And, and theoretically you would put on a timer and you literally just have that chunk of work. time to work, which is interesting because what really happens is that if we allow an hour for a task, the task likely is going to take an hour.

If we say, okay, I only have 20 minutes to work on this. We, we [00:25:00] actually might achieve that task in the 20 minutes, or we break it down in different chunks because our brain needs that break. The mistake that a lot of us make, and I still sometimes make, is that we try to focus so hard and really just work through it and push through the job at hand so that we can take it off the to do list, but our brain doesn't quite work so well, so we get into these dips of focus time and Performance and that's when taking little breaks in between really increases the brain function and the work that we can achieve.

So personally, I don't do the Pomodoro technique. I work more in 90 minutes chunks because that's kind of works better for my, for my day and how it's set up because my day is very split into morning work, afternoon kids and a little bit of evening, evening work. But yeah, it's again, it's like this. I've tried the Pomodoro.

I didn't quite like it. I find the 90 minutes a bit better for me. But then the other thing that I [00:26:00] really enjoy and that has changed a lot for me is the whole idea of making a plan. I'm a planner. That's what I am, who I am. And I love spreadsheets. But I, I don't like making a whole year of plan has never worked for me because I would lose track and would be like, Oh yeah.

You know, I still have six months until December. I'll do it one day and then I never got to do it. But now I really, I look at three month planning chunks, and then I create a monthly plan, a weekly plan. Yeah, monthly, weekly. And I have my daily like morning rituals where I sit down and I look at the week and I'm like, okay, what am I going to do today?

And it's breaking it down and taking the intentional time. I mean, that's like 5 to 10 minutes per day, maybe where I really look at the planning side of things. And I select. The top three priorities that are kind of my non negotiables for the day and then a few other things that [00:27:00] I think I could chunk in.

And I always have three sort of self care, creative, joyful things that I put on my list because again, that part is really, really important to feel peaceful. But that really has helped me so much of not feeling this constant, Oh, what am I doing today? Hey, where am I even going to start? Where was where was I with this project?

And then at the end of the month you kind of look at the things you've done and like yeah I've done a lot. I've worked a lot, but I didn't actually achieve the goal that I was set to achieve and that's happened to me a lot of like constantly working but not getting to where I wanted to get because I lost sight of What's the plan?

So yeah, that's really powerful for me

Sarah: Yeah, I love that so much. And I have a similar approach with the, you know, breaking down the months. For me it's more like because of my, my, the way I run my programs. So it's very much backwards planning from day one. Okay, [00:28:00] here's where I run my program, what needs to happen to leading towards that program, and then everything daily and weekly activities run around these programs.

Right? And, and so I, I really agree with that, that we need to always be, and, and I, on my, on my daily planner. I have like the top one says the big goal, you know, it's like, this is, yeah, this is what I'm working towards. And, and, and then be reminded of that because yeah, otherwise you're constantly putting out fires and, you know, spending tons of times in email without actually getting to anywhere.

And what I like also about having those three, sometimes it's four priorities of the day. Then when you have reached these priorities and I tried to always not make them like this big giant thing that I know I cannot accomplish in a day, then, you know, you [00:29:00] can actually turn off the computer after these three or four things.

Right. And then that feels good where otherwise you never actually feel like you've done enough because you haven't given yourself a container. So, yeah, I love that very much. What you shared. And then. The, the, the peaceful parts, the, you know, self care things. I do have, no, I don't have that. I have a mantra on mine, which I sometimes kind of just kind of give myself a little, you know, energy boost, but, but I like the way how you say, okay, what, what kind of fun thing I'm, am I doing that's actually on my Google calendar, I always have my, I go for a daily walk.

That's blocked out or I have the gym. So, so, but I, I'll add them on that, on that daily printout as well. I like that. I love

Anne: the ticking off, you know, like I've done it and I need to write it down on my list because I'm that kind of person who will first thing, drop all the, the fun and the, the, the [00:30:00] self care things because I'm so much like, Oh, I want to make, like, I just love what I'm doing.

And I love. Creating in that way that I'm the first to forget, like to walk and to eat and I need to write it down on the list to make sure that, you know, I remind myself, this is also very important. This is important

Sarah: to you. Yeah, yeah, it's wonderful. You mentioned earlier that you're also running a virtual assistant business or agency, right?

So. In a way that probably fits into this conversation very well, because what we just shared is all about being productive, but also kind of demonstrating. Well, you can't do it all right. Like, there's just so much. to do to run a business that it's actually a very smart thing to work with someone else who enjoys doing the small things that you don't have time to.

And so that's what, what [00:31:00] you're doing also with your VA business. I do feel that I, I do. I feel like that's one of the things that I did right from the get go. I've been working with VAs for 15 years. There's so many things I didn't do, but that one I did well. And yet I, I still find a lot of resistance from entrepreneurs because they see it as an expense, right?

And it is. You know, yes, you have to have the money, but it's this chicken and the egg thing. Like, you know, when do I have enough money? And so, yeah, talk to us about that, how we can shift this mindset for people do not see it as an expense, but as an investment in their business. Yeah, exactly.

Anne: Totally. I mean, the investment really is in.

Your own time and buying back your own time. So if you feel that there's just too much to do, I have all these great ideas, but I never have enough time. Well, then [00:32:00] it's perfect to invest. And it doesn't have to be a full time role and, and, you know, one VA doing hours and hours of work. VAs can work for just a few hours a week and they can take off a few things off your plate that really you don't have to do because they don't require you as the person, as the face of your business.

To execute that task, especially the admin things. I mean, I, I really don't enjoy admin. So I definitely give that to BAs. I've always have, because it's just not what I enjoy. And why would I want to spend my precious energy and precious time on the things that I don't like doing? This is exactly what I used to do in a corporate job where you just had to do it because your boss told you, well, now I have the Freedom as the boss of myself to decide which task I do and which task I give to the team.

But is this resistance of like, okay, it's going to cost me money. Is the person really going to do it as well as I can, because I'm, you know, I have my certain way and I have my [00:33:00] very high standards. That's the perfectionist that comes through in a lot of people. But at the end of the day, you don't like, again, you don't necessarily give away the very precious task.

You give away some tasks that are. Necessary to run your business. They are not what you have to do as like your expertise, your skill. And there's someone else who can probably do it better, faster, and who enjoys it. Like you said, there's people who enjoy these kinds of things versus you might just be really good at something else.

And it doesn't have to be many hours. I mean, this is also the perception that, okay, I've got to give a VA a stable number of hours, a stable task. It could be a VA who comes in for a certain project. For example, I don't know, for your book writing, I'm sure there is tasks that you don't do on a daily basis, but you do it because you have your book to create, and then the VA can support you on a project, and then next month you don't work with the VA.

It's all possible. It's just a way of, a question of reaching out and [00:34:00] finding the right person.

Sarah: Right. I think maybe it's a little bit about this fear. Well, how am I going to find the right person? Right. And, and then I, I do remember in the early days, I've had, you know, You know, many experiences that didn't work out, but in a way, that's also how you learn, because I think it really is a way you need to learn how to work with a virtual assistant, because it's all about the communication.

It's all about the system. It becomes kind of your employee, whether this person only works for you an hour per week, you Or, or has a full time job, you still need to communicate as if she was your employee. Because, you know, that's, that's where things go wrong, I think most of the time when people say, Oh, I tried to work for the VA, it was horrible, it didn't work out.

Well, how did you communicate, you know, did you train her? Like this, this whole idea of, [00:35:00] Yeah, training someone and then making sure, like I created an operations manual for the virtual assistant because, well, right now with, with the one I have, and I've had several, I've been lucky she's been with me for years and years, but what if this person all of a sudden decides, Oh, I'm going back to corporate or who knows, you know, people get.

Get busy or get pregnant or whatever. And so that's like, well, if you've spent the time and invested into, you know, creating manuals and videos and things like that, then you can just easily, you know, replace that person and say, okay, here's what you need to know. Let's, you know, when can you train yourself basically, and then.

Step in. So it is an investment in your business. It kind of, when you were talking, because I'm a business coach, made me think it's kind of the same [00:36:00] conversation with when is the time to hire a business coach, right? It's like, it's an investment that, you know, will save you time. But it's like, well, if I don't have the money, I'm not ready to invest.

And so it's, it's that same thing. It, it gains you back time and life energy and, and yeah, more. You move much faster, but it really is working with someone else. You move faster. You can get more done. And what I talk a lot about in this new book is the spaciousness. You gain spaciousness for being human, which if you're working 10 hour days, because you're creating all this content, being productive by yourself, you don't have that.

So. Yeah, and that's

Anne: when business is not fun anymore and it's a grind and it's just another job as well because at the end of the day, you're chained to your desk and if you don't produce, you don't have the income and so on, [00:37:00] it's all that chain, the whole chicken and egg conversation. Exactly. But there's two things that came for me that came to my mind.

It's like a lot of people are scared of the training aspect.

Sarah: Yeah,

Anne: I'm going to have to invest my time into training that person. Well, I always feel like, yes, of course you have to, you have to share how you do things and how you want them to be done. But I feel, I believe that if you're clear on what skills does that person need and what are the tasks at hand, and then really look for the person who matches that, You don't necessarily have to train so much because the person likely knows whatever system you're using better because she's been working with different clients on different things and she doesn't need to understand exactly what you do because she already knows the system as such, but then also the other part is the whole concept of like, you can train as you go along.

And that's what I have done because I started out as a student. by myself and I was quite resistant to bringing it in, bringing in a team and turning it into [00:38:00] an, into an agency because of exactly the reasons that we discussed, but I have always been very clear to my associate VAs that I'm interested In this transition right now, like, I mean, a little while ago, but I would tell them like, this is what I'm doing.

I'm going from single to team. I don't know what I'm doing. And this could be a little bit messy. Are you okay with that? And I think this is important if someone is like, Oh no, I want someone who really tells me A to Z what I'm supposed to do, and here is my list. And if that's how she works or he works perfect, but then unfortunately you're not going to fit with me because with me, it can be a little bit messy.

And I'll be like, Oh, what do you think? Like. What are you? What would you do? And how would you create this? And I have loved these conversations because, again, if we are all by ourselves, we often get stuck in our mind like, I don't know. Should I do it like this? Or should I do it like that? And then maybe I don't do it at all because I don't know the answer.

But if you have someone that you can bounce ideas, Like a coach or your VA who is very smart often, it, it can really [00:39:00] change the way you do things and the things that you can achieve the outcome you can achieve.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. So good. And, and you're so right. What, what really matters is that you find the right person on a, on a kind of like resonance level, but also on a skill level and.

And I feel like people think, oh, I just need one VA to help me with everything. And that's another reason why it often goes wrong, because you actually need to hire for the skill and not just, oh, I need one va. So you really need to, when you interview, you really need to make sure, okay, am I clear what I need help with?

And does this person have the skill to help me with this specific thing? So I think that's That's key. Absolutely. The

Anne: key. So Correct. Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah, well, we'll, we'll make sure to actually, why don't you share your website? So if people are listening and they're like, Oh, that sounds like the kind of VA agency [00:40:00] that I would love to work with.

Why don't you share your website and do you have different websites for the, I've

Anne: got two websites. Exactly. So there's the

Sarah: virtual

Anne: assistance agency is called the virtual fully like virtual and full service virtual fully. And then where I talk about the peaceful activities and Raju. com. So it's these separate entities.

Sarah: Wonderful. Yeah. And we'll make sure to, to share both websites also in the show notes. And yeah, just kind of to wrap up, like, what would be like, One thing that you would share that where to start with this idea of peaceful productivity, but maybe the first thing that you look at with your clients, you talked about an audit.

Maybe, maybe that's it. What would you say is the 1st? Yeah,

Anne: yeah. So I've got what I call the wheel of peaceful productivity. So it's, it's. It's a bit similar to the wheel of life where we compartmentalize different areas of how we do work and then we [00:41:00] rank them and that can be in form of a wheel or it could really just be sitting down and thinking, okay, which parts in my day do I enjoy and I feel they are working quite smoothly and I'm very happy with these things and what are areas in my life in my day or times in my day or So, yeah.

Jobs that I'm doing tasks that I'm doing in my business that feel not so good. And to then look at, you know, what's the balance at the end, is there a lot more of like what I'm enjoying or is there a lot more of the stuff that's getting on my nerves and that makes me feel quite anxious and overwhelmed?

Well, if that's the case, then obviously, you know, that first of all, you could go back to what do you enjoy and how can you bring more of that? That could be, you know, the creativity, the self care, the fun parts. What, what is fun in your business and how can you do more of that in any good way? And then obviously you can look at the things that are not working so well.

And you can look at what can I take out again, remove completely? Is it really essential going back to the book [00:42:00] essential? What can I delegate? To a VA or a team member or a partner or whatever it could be. It doesn't even have to necessarily be in business. It could be in other areas of your life. Maybe there's some opportunity there to pass on some responsibility to someone else.

And, and really just have that balance sheet and pick one item from the fun and good stuff. And one item from the, from the not so good stuff. And look at what could you do with those things and start from there. And not overwhelm yourself with, I'm going to change everything overnight. Alright. Because that's not going to work.

Take it, like, take small, little baby steps.

Sarah: Hmm. I love that. Yeah. I love this idea of the wheel so that it gives you this visual of, of your business and where, where you enjoy it and where you're like, Hmm, why am I still doing that? Yeah. That's, that's a good, wonderful. Well, I really enjoyed this conversation and I'm grateful for the work you're doing.

I think it's so needed. So thank [00:43:00] you so much for being on the Humane Marketing Podcast, Anne. Thank you so much. It was a huge pleasure. Thank you.

I hope you got some great value from listening to this episode and finding more peace in your productivity. Find out more about Ann and her work at annrejoux. com. That's Ann with an E at the end and then R, R, R, R, R, R, R, R. A, J, double O, dot com, or Virtuefully, V, I, R, T, U, and then Fully, dot com. I'm still having trouble with the ABCs because once as a child when you learn your ABCs in a different language, for me in German.

You can never change that. It's just like so hard for me to spell out names or, or, or letters. That's why I'm always struggling with this. Anne has created a wonderful free gift. [00:44:00] It's called the Wheel of Peaceful Productivity, which you can get for free going to annerajoo. com wheel of peaceful productivity.

And if you're looking for others who think like you, then why not join us in the humane marketing circle like and did she just joined our community after recording the podcast. So you'll be able to connect with her and many others in there. Find out more at humane dot marketing forward slash circle.

You find the show notes as always of this beautiful episode at humane. forward slash H M 1 9 2. And on this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers, the humane business manifesto, and the free gentle confidence mini course, as well as my two books, marketing, like we're human and selling like we're human.

Thank you so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares. [00:45:00] For yourself, your clients and the planet because we are change makers before we are marketers. So go be the change you want to see in the world. Speak soon.

This is the fifth episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps

To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page

To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

In this new episode, Jayne Warrilow joins us to talk about the essential role of trust in humane marketing and business. We explore why self-trust is the foundation of all other forms of trust, especially for entrepreneurs navigating challenging times.

Jayne shares insights on how trust shapes a business's reputation and client relationships, offering practical steps to enhance trustworthiness. We also discuss the journey of becoming a trusted authority in your field, and how confidence and courage play crucial roles in this transformation.

Join us to discover how making trust your competitive advantage can elevate your business in the world of compassionate entrepreneurship.

In this conversation they talked about:

• What trust has to do with Humane Marketing and Humane Business

• Why self-trust is the foundation of all other forms of trust in business and how entrepreneurs can build and maintain self-trust, especially in challenging times

• How trust influences a business's reputation and client relationships, and what measures businesses can take to ensure they are seen as trustworthy

• How entrepreneurs can discover and embrace their calling to become a trusted authority in their field

• How confidence and courage influence the perception of authority and trustworthiness, and what strategies entrepreneurs can use to build confidence in their industry

• A sneak peek of what Jayne will cover in our Collab workshop on July 3rd

---

Sarah: [00:00:00] Hi Jane, it's wonderful to be with you again today.

Jayne: Oh, Sarah. It's such an honor to be with you. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today.

Sarah: Yeah, me too, because trust. Oh my God, we could talk about this for like hours and hours, right? So such an important topic. And I think specifically for you and I, I've known each other for a long time.

And we're very much value aligned and wanting to create businesses for the long term and helping our clients create their life's work and businesses for the long term. So yeah, trust just seems this kind of, I have to admit for me, it was kind of just this like given it's like, yeah, obviously that's part of the thing, but people do wonder.

You know, how do you create trust and so that's why you and I talked and I'm like, yeah, it'd be great if you could come in and talk to us about that, because you have spent [00:01:00] a lot of time thinking about that deeply and came up with frameworks and and you'll share some of that with us. And I'm super excited.

But let's start with kind of the foundational question. Like, why do we need to trust when we want to create a business and also maybe what does that have to do with creating a sacred business like you call it or a humane business like I call it? Yeah.

Jayne: It's a really interesting question because just like you said at the beginning, Sarah, I think so many of us Take trust as a given, you know, if we're a good human in the world, you know, we're taught from a very young age to be kind and, you know, be kind to our neighbors and, you know, treat other people as we'd like to be treated ourselves.

And most of us go out into the world with that kind of energy. And that I've used that word energy very specifically here, because in a way, trust is invisible. It's not something that's [00:02:00] tangible that you can see that you can, you know, Have on your business dashboard and measure necessarily how you're doing.

There's data that points to it for us, but really it's such a, there's layers to trust, you know, and and what it really means for us. For me, what I've learned over the many years that I've been working with business and leaders is it's actually the foundation of everything. And it's not just the foundation of business because more and more as I get older, Like life and business are integrating together in a way.

And it's so interesting, you know, like there's many of us that will have been to business school and we've learned leadership theories. We've learned business theories. We've learned what it takes to be successful in business today. But one of the things that I noticed in my reflections is I look back at like my time in business school.

Nobody ever taught me to be kind. Or compassionate or the things that actually [00:03:00] come about building trust in the world. And at the end of the day, I think somewhere along the way, we've, we've somehow forgotten the fact that business is deeply relational it's about. Humans. Yes. It's also about technology today.

So when I talk about relationships, it's not just about relationships between people, which of course you need, you need really good, solid, foundational relationships to make, you know, to be successful as both a leader and in, in your business. But also it's about kind of the relationship with technology.

Okay. Your relationship with your business, your relationship with yourself, trust comes across all these different layers, which is what we're going to be diving into. Because once we start to pull it apart and, you know, I have a number of frameworks I've developed, it. It kind of, you look at the frameworks and you go, Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense.

But somehow along the way, we forgotten [00:04:00] to really look at what it takes to actually create trust. And I think that's probably why we're all now doing business and leadership in a context where trust is at the lowest level it's ever been because we've neglected it.

Sarah: Yeah. So good. Yeah. And it feels like we can immediately finger point at people or businesses where we don't feel that there's trust, right?

But it's much harder to figure out, well, what are the things that create trust? Because like you said, it's kind of the invisible and it's just kind of like this energy that you either feel or you don't feel. And when you don't feel it, you're like, yep. It's because they're doing that. And in the humane marketing kind of realm, it would be the marketing that creates distrust, right?

But, but there's so many other things besides marketing. And you mentioned this relationship to self [00:05:00] but also to your business and technology. Yeah. So let's maybe start with the self because that feels like a good starting point, because. Yeah, I feel like as business owners, that's where, you know, if you don't have trust in yourself, it's very hard to, to kind of give that to others.

So, right. That's really

Jayne: true. And, and I think, you know working in organizational life for many years, you know, seeing leaders talking about business as though it's out here. So when we think about trust, you know, very often in a business context, we think about, okay, how can we build trust, like from the business to our audience, for example, but in a lot of businesses that my audience, and I think probably yours as well, need to think about is, you know, how do we show up in, in our life?

Right. And our business, because I think it was John Kabat Zinn that says, wherever you go, there you are. So you're not going [00:06:00] to be completely different in business than what you are in life. And, and really this, this external view of, you know, I can make my business success by doing things out here. It's kind of becoming an outdated notion today because the marketplace is demanding so much more of us.

And the first thing that I want to speak to is this idea of trusted authority, which to me, I think you can't be successful in business today, unless you can build both trust and authority and authority doesn't come until you have trust in the first instance. So it begins. It's like, you know, just very simple questions.

Like, do you trust yourself? And when I ask that of say clients or people that I meet, they'll, they'll stop and they'll think, and they'll, they'll, they'll come back with, well, there's some areas where I do, and then potentially there's some areas where. And maybe not so much. And so it's then that inner work of [00:07:00] really understanding yourself at a deeper level and understanding things, just very simple things.

You know, this isn't new. It's like, what do you need? In any situation, for example, to feel confident in a situation, what do you need? And also, what do you want? How do you want to show up to your life, to your business, to your relationships? Who do you want to be and who do you want to become? Because what I'm really speaking to here is something I call your personal energetics or your personal resonance.

Now. What do I mean by the word resonance? I just mean the relationship, the quality of connection that you form with yourself in this, in this inner space. Like, what is that quality of connection? Do you know yourself? Do you trust yourself? And in what situations do you trust yourself? And in what situations don't you?

Now it's really interesting because what the research is showing [00:08:00] that Other people, other people know when you show up and you don't trust yourself because we all read energy. I mean, we don't talk about this all the time, but before anybody opens their mouth, right? We have a sense of who they're being and how they're feeling.

Particularly as females, women particularly read emotional energy. And so really understanding that at a different level, you know, can really kind of accelerate the, what it is that you want out of any relationship. Whilst also enabling the other person to get that. So we're not just talking about you coming in here with a me, me, me energy.

It's actually the beginning of the win win the me to we journey of how do I be in relationship with others? Well, I've got to learn how to trust myself and be in relationship with myself first so that I can inspire trust from others because if I don't trust me, nobody else is going to trust me [00:09:00] either.

Sarah: Yeah, we're always so aligned in our thinking, right? The way I think about this recently, I, I started to think, well, we're talking about company cultures, right? This idea of cultures. And I'm like, well, as entrepreneurs, we need to start thinking about that. Think of it as, as personal cultures, what's the culture, you know, your personal culture within your one person business.

And that's exactly what you were talking about is this resonance. How do you feel Because, yeah, that reflects on other people then, and then that's where this resonance comes in, right? And people seeing how you feel. And I love how you made that transitional. So from the me to the we so yeah, clearly it's like, it's not just you and your business, it's you in relationship with.

You know, clients, [00:10:00] other people one point you also made was this idea of the authority. And so that I feel like a lot of people are kind of scared already of that word. It's, you know, it feels kind of maybe a bit heavy, maybe even a bit. Kind of like past paradigm, you know, so tell us more about this this idea of authority for me.

Also, what comes up what I like more is the word courage because you and I both work with change makers. And so I feel like having this. Working on themselves, this inner work, this self confidence it leads to more courage and that's really what you need to kind of show up as, you know, more of an authority, but I'm curious to, to hear from you what you think about authority and courage and all of these things.

Jayne: Yeah. And I love the word courage because of course it comes from the [00:11:00] French, you know, that the courage of it's the heart opening at the end of the day. Interestingly, as you were speaking there, I was thinking, I don't actually use the word authority without the word trust. And why? Right. Because I think you're right.

I think authority in a way is the old paradigm because it's got a very masculine energy with it. It does, doesn't it? No, it's kind of got a bit of a push energy and a bit of a, let me blow out my chest and show how good I am. Right. Right. And so this masculine energy comes forward with the word authority, but if you put the word power, Trust with it.

Trust is a very feminine kind of feeling kind of energy. And one of the things I learned over, you know, over the years, working with so many different coaches and consultants and also leaders and global leaders and C level leaders is this, this idea that a lot of my work with these individuals, particularly in coaching, has really been around.

And if I say these two words, people will get it straight away. Owning. Owning it, [00:12:00] whatever the it is for you. It's not just learning that you have a message, but that you are a message. Right. And so when I look at the word trust and authority together, it's the integration for me of the masculine and the feminine, because.

It's like, if you only, if you only operate through a feminine energy in today's market, you're not going to get enough done. There's not going to be enough structures in place to actually attract the people. Life's going to be hard because yeah, you're going to be working as an individual. Maybe you're a solopreneur, but you'll still be trading time for money because you won't have learned how to build the, the structures in the business that can start to take the pressure off your back.

Right. And so it's this combination of. Trust, or like you said, courage, courage for me is one of the things that I talk about in different levels of consciousness. I'm kind of going off piece a little bit, but different levels of consciousness is the energy of the heart. [00:13:00] So for your audience, if you know, you're listening and you're not familiar with my work, right?

So if you just think about the chakra system, The lower levels of energy are connected to the higher levels of energy through the hearts, right? Through courage. And so authority is really built off of trust, which is the foundation of it. But the old style authority. Didn't really have trust in there. It was just like, let me just shout as loud as I can to everybody who'll listen about how amazing I am.

And maybe some of it will stick, but in today's market, it's much quieter than that. And the reason it's built on trust is because you're not the one giving. Being your self authority, like in the old days, it's other people that will then say, you know, I trust you and I trust your authority in this space.

And for you to be that person, you need to have done your own [00:14:00] inner work. Now, what does that mean? When I look out into the world, and this is quite a triggering statement for some people, I feel that we have a lot of issues in our leadership. And one of those issues is there's many, many leaders that are leading from what I would.

Term as unhealed stories. So they've had trauma, maybe in their childhood, maybe in their adult life. You know, we've all had trauma, but they've not done the inner work. They've not done their own work to actually kind of heal that. So they go into work and life and business. And what they're doing is they're projecting these.

This trauma, these unhealed stories onto other people in not, they're not aware of it at all, but it also causes more aggression, lack of care, lack of compassion in the workplace because somebody's unaware. They're not. Conscious really of what they're doing and their impact on [00:15:00] others. And so really this is where trust all begins is, are you prepared to do the work to earn trust?

Because we all know trust isn't, and we all know from our own experiences, trust can be lost very quickly. And then it's harder, you know, you really do have to do some work to bring it back. So really understanding. Not only the foundations of trust, but the different elements that build trust generically, because it's been a lot of research done in this space.

Once you understand that, it's easier to be aware if you're ever breaking trust inadvertently with somebody else, you can do things that actually bring it back before it kind of falls down the abyss. But also you can trust yourself and show up as a trustworthy individual. And that's a very attractive energy in this marketplace today, just in life.

Because we don't meet that many people who've done their own inner work, who trust themselves and then show up [00:16:00] with trust because they own their message. They don't just have a message. You know, they own the message. They know their life. Is making a difference, not just their business.

Sarah: And I

Jayne: think embodying what matters most in today's marketplace is probably the most important advice I could give anyone.

Sarah: Yeah, so much good stuff in there. I always want to like take notes for yeah, where, where can I. I don't want to add anything. It was just perfect. So, so let me just go in another direction because I, I think in one of the frameworks, I saw that you also talk about collaboration and maybe you hinted at it a little bit just prior how, oh, yeah, you mentioned it because you're saying, well, trust needs to be earned.

And the old paradigm was kind of like, well, I just show up as an authority where actually you know, the other [00:17:00] people make you an authority. You don't even call yourself an authority. Right. And so how does this all have to do with collaboration? Because it's not just me trusting myself. Yes, we saw that was a big deal and that's where it all starts.

But then how do we. not use, but collaborate with other people to increase maybe that trust and maybe also the authority what have you seen in your work?

Jayne: Well, you see, as soon as you mentioned that I went straight into power dynamics in my head, because. You know, we've lived for so many years with positional leadership in organizational life.

And even in small businesses, you know, there's the founder, the CEO, and, you know, maybe an admin assistant underneath. So what it, what happens when you do your own inner work is you start to realize and kind of have compassion for other people. And I don't know, this is [00:18:00] certainly true for me. The more I learn about what's on the inside here, the more I realize there's a bit of a crowd, but also.

That I'm no better, really, or worse than anybody else. So it's almost like a humility comes into the way I feel. And I also realize that everybody that I meet has something that they can teach me. What do I mean about the power dynamics and trust? Well, What it does for me is it shifts my belief system about who I think I am and who I think I'm being, which then in a relationship with somebody else, or if I'm collaborating with, what I'm doing is I'm really partnering.

I'm having the energy of not power over or power under, I'm in the power with. space. So when I'm in that space now, it's shared power, right? So it is collaborative because I'm listening as much to the person that I'm in relationship [00:19:00] with as much as I'm like speaking from my own perspective, but we're in true dialogue now.

Every, whenever I say dialogue to people, everybody thinks that this is something we do every day, all the time, but it's not. I'll just say to anybody who's listening, just go out into life, sit in Starbucks and listen to the people behind you on a table. I can guarantee they won't be in true dialogue.

Why? Because it's almost like we've forgotten this power with, we've forgotten how to be with each other in some ways. And if you listen, I can more or less guarantee what you're going to hear is what I would call two parallel conversations, whereas somebody is just waiting for the other person to finish so they can say the next thing they want to say, and the other person's waiting so they can say it.

Speak and say what they want to say, but there's no real collaboration, even in a communication that's happening. [00:20:00] And again, this is why we've lost trust. You see, so this is also, there's so many different layers to trust from power, how we're showing up to the belief space to have we, do we trust ourselves?

We've got our own, like. Have we healed our own stories so that we can actually be in the world in conscious and intentional ways? Because that's the beginning of humane marketing, because if we're not being human and we're acting like machines, then, well, we're pushing because we feel less than on the inside.

So we feel we've got to get our stuff out because people need to hear what we've got to say. That's a very different energy then. Hey, yeah, I'm here and I'm ready to help, right? I'm ready to help you. And one of my mentors used to say to me, you know, like we talk a lot, don't we? In marketing about let's get a funnel.

Let's get a lead magnet. Let's do this. Let's get it all in place. Right. Content marketing. And what one of my mentors, [00:21:00] one of my early mentors here in the States said to me, Jane, at the beginning of a relationship with anybody, Just help them, just help them, right? Don't keep proving that you can help them.

Don't keep telling them you can help them, just help them. And when I think about trust, right, if I think about it from my own perspective, one of the first things when I'm in a new relationship, whether it's a business, professional relationship, or whether it's just a personal one is this idea of don't let me down.

This is what research shows. The first thing that comes into our head is, are you someone I can trust? Don't let me down here. Whatever it is, don't let me down. So that's the first thing you, you need to prove is that you're someone who cares and that you're not going to let them down. You've got their back, right?

It's simple.

Sarah: It, it, it, I love this word, humility that you used and what comes up right now for me also when you said, don't let me down [00:22:00] is the word integrity. So kind of like walk your talk, follow through, do what you say, you're, you know, do what Said you were going to do all of these things. Like that's, it's these small little things that people notice.

Kind of like the credit system from Stephen Covey, where he's like, well, you know, you, people, Don't pay attention, but they actually accumulate credits like if you do good things the other person will kind of have a credit count and every time they, you know, you do something that is like, not in integrity or not trustworthy.

Well, you lose credits, right? And you it's very, very hard to then regain these credits once you are like, under zero. So. So yeah, just kind of like paying attention to, to the unspoken, to the invisible, like you mentioned, it's so, [00:23:00] so key in, in trust and authority building. And I feel like what you mentioned also about collaboration and partnership.

It's, it's really this new paradigm, right? It's not about you building your own authority, but partnering with others on the same level that creates authority for both partners. I feel like that's the way we both, we all rise together. Right. It's not like I rise by abusing the people under me. It's like we all rise.

And I just, I just love that way of thinking about business and marketing and building trust. So, yeah.

Jayne: Yeah, it's so important. And you used a word there, Sarah, which is so important in business for me, which is the word integration, because even though I've talked about, you know, do you trust yourself? So this idea of personal trust and personal [00:24:00] resonance, then moving that out into like what I would call then social resonance or relationship.

Like that inspires when you trust yourself, it's then how do you show up in the world that enables others to trust you? But this space of integration for me, like the crucible of that is in your business,

Sarah: because

Jayne: that's the space of being and doing, because we want you to embody the message that you have.

We want you to lead from this integrated space. And we want you to bake this in to your business so that, for example, all of your team, like if you have assistants or whatever, anybody who's representing your business understands how they're going to go about building trust, because actually we can build trust through technology too today, but we can't do that if the, we can't do it in human ways.

Unless those first [00:25:00] two, the personal and the social are in place. And if you think about this from, you know, like the, the, the work that leaders have been through, like there's emotional intelligence, which you could argue is a good piece of self trust. Then the social intelligence, which you can argue is a good piece of the relationship trust.

And these two things are so important in business today. Why? Because the market's changing and we're going beyond the transactions in business now. So it's not just, will you do what you say you will do when you say you will do it? That's kind of the baseline now, but now people are looking for. Purpose.

They're looking for meaning. They're looking for you. Are you a force for good in the world as one individual human living in the world? Are you a force for good in the way you're living your life? Or are you part of the problem? Right. And then that of course, ripples out into your relationships, ripples out into your business.

[00:26:00] So, you know, one thing that I always say is a business that doesn't resonate. Can never be successful, just like a person that doesn't resonate can never be successful. And you can't resonate unless you can build trust.

Sarah: Yeah. You can't build trust unless you do the inner work and the workshop with Jane.

To tell us a bit more about the workshop that you're gonna yeah,

Jayne: share with us. Yeah, well, I'm really excited cause I have a number of frameworks. And one of the things that I love is, is putting the, I'm very visual. So putting things into a visual framework really helps me to kind of understand.

And there's a lot underneath these frameworks and I've got, I think, three or four that I'm going to be sharing. And, and the first one is looking in a way, looking at the context. It's looking at how is the market changing in terms of trust and what [00:27:00] are, and what are our customers like asking for? What are, what's the invitation that they're giving us right now in terms of the way that we show up to do business.

Right. So that's kind of the first one. And then we're going to see. So we're going to start looking at this integration of the self and the relationships and the business. And what does it mean to truly integrate the being and doing in business? And we're also going to look at the five key elements of trust, of building trust in depth so that we can understand what they are, because of course, they work in the individual space, they work in the relationship space, and they also work in the business space.

Because the ideal here is. It's not just you as a human being very trustworthy as an individual, and then building relationships that are trustworthy. That's a key part, but also building the trust into your business, baking it in into all of your kind of. Processes, your structures, your systems, even if they're run through [00:28:00] technology, that they still got your voice, they've still got your energy baked in at the very core.

So we're going to be looking at what these things mean and how to actually practically implement this in your business, because trust can feel like something that's floating around up here. But we actually want to bring that energy down so that, you know, it makes a difference in your daily reality.

So that's, I love

Sarah: that so much and I love that you making it practical, right? It's like, while I love big concepts and you and I could talk about these things, hours and hours, but at the end of the day, what the entrepreneurs want is like, okay, I get that, but how do I bring that down into my business, into my systems?

And I love that you talk about technology as well, because there is kind of this. You know, resistance to. Maybe using technology or seeing it as like this bad thing from the [00:29:00] past paradigm, but I'm very much about saying, no, no, no, we use the technology, but we just need to infuse it with the new paradigm.

Recipe, you know, it's like, yeah, we, we can use both. And it seems like that's exactly what you're going to be sharing with us. So not wait, it's going to be amazing. So please people, if you listen to this and you want more of Jane and building trust and courage and all of that good stuff have a look at humane.

marketing forward slash. workshop and join us on July 3rd because it's going to be amazing. And you, I think. It could, it could feel like this is just a nice to have for business, but don't get that wrong. It is a must have for the new business paradigm. We are going to be inundated with anything AI, right?

And I just talked about the [00:30:00] positive things of AI, which I do a hundred percent believe in. But the other side, the dark side of AI is all the. You know, the generic stuff that we're going to be inundated with, and so that's why we need to work on the foundation and the trust building and all of that so that even in the technology, people can tell this is trustworthy and this is not, you know, so yeah, I can't wait.

Jane, anything you want to add about the, the workshop or anything else?

Jayne: I just want to say, I completely agree with what you're talking about with AI because at the moment, I mean, I can't necessarily talk about the future so much in the long term, but at the moment right now, this is a distinct advantage because you're absolutely right, Sarah.

AI is. Causing us to reflect back on ourself to what does it mean to be human and be human as a leader and human in business. So that, this is why your brand and humane [00:31:00] marketing, I know the work that you do is so very important because if we can't claim and there's right now, there's no shared definition of what it means to be human.

So if we can't claim. Ourselves and our energy and what it means to be human. How on earth are we going to keep up with AI coming in? So the, this sounds, you know, like it sounds fundamental in many ways because it is, but it's also right now, what I want you to know is, My clients that are doing this in the marketplace right now, this is a competitive advantage because it's what the market is asking for and the market is in some ways slower to move with the large corporations than we are when we're entrepreneurial and we can pivot on a dime.

So it's a real competitive advantage right now. And people are yearning for the humanity back in business. So let's just give it to them.

Sarah: Yes. Let's [00:32:00] do it. Can't wait, Jane. Really. I very much look forward to this and thanks so much for being on the podcast and let's just say to be continued. Yeah.

Jayne: I love it.

Sarah: Thank you, Sarah.