The Jabot

Kathryn Rubino talks with Kelly Rittenberry Culhane and James Meadows, two of the founding partners of Culhane Meadows, about what it was like to start their firm in 2013. They also discuss why their firm cares so much about diversity and what can be done to make the profession more diverse. They also chat about the firm's growth plans, which continue despite the economic downturn created by the global pandemic.

• https://www.culhanemeadows.com/attorney/kelly-culhane/
• https://www.culhanemeadows.com/attorney/james-meadows/

• Today's guests - 1:20
• Opening a new firm - 2:04
• COVID_19 and legal firms - 5:59
• The strategic vision of the firm - 6:44
• Diversity and inclusion are key - 8:20
• Why diversity is so important for their firm - 11:20
• Being able to support an online work - 18:14
• Figuring out how to work from home - 20:08
• Expanding their firm - 21:50
• The practice of law - 25:30
• The goal for everyone to succeed - 28:49
• Their number 1 piece of advice for attorneys - 29:10

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Kathryn talks with Stephanie Wilkins who said "No" to the Biglaw brass ring of partnership in favor of a freelancer's life. Hear what it is like to choose to be happy over money and how she makes the uncertainty of freelance work for her.

• https://www.stephaniewilkinsphotography.com/about
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-wilkins/
• https://www.instagram.com/swilkinstravels/

• Being a writer at Above The Law - 1:54
• Leaving Biglaw - 2:15
• Her background - 2:20
• Going to law school - 5:06
• When she decided to leave biglaw - 7:31
• Making a decision to not being unhappy anymore - 8:54
• Being miserable at biglaw - 10:08
• Feeling that your work is not valued - 11:25
• The idea of being a photographer - 16:26
• Being determined to not being an attorney anymore - 20:12
• Stephanie's routine - 25:04
• Dealing with the uncertainty of a freelancer - 27:27
• Enjoying to travel the world - 30:18
• Her favorite travel - 34:19
• A low point in a freelancer live - 34:38
• Not hating the law, just hating being a lawyer - 37:37
• Now she understands what it means to be happy - 39:27
• Stephanie's regrets - 40:05
• The craziest project that she had - 41:33

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Kathryn talks with Cassie Chambers, author of the new book Hill Women: Finding Family and a Way Forward in the Appalachian Mountains. Cassie is a graduate of Yale College, the Yale School of Public Health, the London School of Economics, and Harvard Law School. They talk about the strong women in her family and the emphasis on education, stereotypes of Appalachia and how her book is a response to that.

• [email protected]
• https://www.cassiechambers.com/
• Cassie's book: https://www.amazon.com/Hill-Women-Finding-Appalachian-Mountains/dp/1984818910

• Cassie's story - 1:53
• The value of education - 2:48
• Stories of women in Kentucky - 3:53
• Writing a book to honor women - 4:45
• Being a practicing lawyer and author - 6:13
• Telling part of her story in the book - 8:01
• Seeking external validation - 9:04
• Her experience after graduating from law school - 11:02
• Growing up in Appalachia - 11:30
• She thought that "all law was law" - 13:02
• The power of being a lawyer - 14:39
• Her background influences the kind of lawyer that she is today - 14:51
• How Appalachia is a part of her - 17:41
• The cost associated with law school - 20:46
• Caring deeper about poverty - 22:59
• Her experience making the world better - 25:17
• The democratic party in Kentucky - 26:52
• Figuring out the new economy in Appalachia - 28:48
• Innovating in times of crisis - 29:59

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Kathryn talks with Summer Eberhard, managing director in the Associate Practice Group at Major, Lindsey & Africa and a working mother who advises young lawyers on negotiating their parental leave, and about the intersection of mental health issues and parenthood. They discuss the challenges of working as a lawyer and parent amid the COVID-19 outbreak, how associates should ask for and take parental leave, and some of the mental health issues that accompany both challenging tasks. Enjoy this episode!

• Summer Eberhard: [email protected] https://www.mlaglobal.com/en/people/summer-eberhard?byconsultantorauthor=summer-eberhard
• [email protected]

• Mental health and working parents - 1:44
• Living in a world with coronavirus - 2:07
• Full-time working parents - 3:02
• Stress - 4:08
• Mental health during the coronavirus - 5:45
• Prioritizing your mental health - 6:11
• Working parents at home - 6:40
• Summer's background - 7:39
• The role of mental health issues - 9:05
• Balancing stress and anxiety - 10:24
• Worried about the coronavirus pandemic - 12:58
• Having the support that you need - 13:47
• One of the biggest mental health problems for working parents - 15:30
• The other side of parental leave - 22:33
• Mental health issues after taking parental leave - 22:50
• Being a full-time attorney again - 24:01
• A piece of advice for parents that need to talk with their firms after parental leave - 27:17

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Sara Eng is the VP of Legal Partnerships at InCloudCounsel. Kathryn and Sara talk about implicit bias and how that creates and maintains the diversity gap in the legal profession. They discuss concrete steps that can be taken and technology that can be used to stop the impact of implicit bias. Be sure to stay tuned and enjoy!

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/sara-eng-82432342
• https://www.incloudcounsel.com/about/

• All the Coronavirus craziness - 1:09
• Sara's company goals and mission - 1:55
• Pursuing other passions outside of the Law - 2:42
• Sara's background - 3:22
• What's happening in the Legal industry - 5:35
• The biggest problem in the legal industry - 6:29
• Transitioning from the legal industry to the technology side - 7:49
• A game-changer for women and minorities - 8:46
• Technology and the diversity gap - 12:42
• Alternatives for legal services providers - 16:03
• Inefficiency in law firms - 17:10
• Focusing on corporate transactions - 18:28
• Future for the legal technology space - 19:15
• Being proud of the work that her company is doing - 22:34
• The opportunity of being a partner of law firms - 23:50

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Mary Anne Franks, Professor of Law and Dean's Distinguished Scholar, teaches criminal law, criminal procedure, First Amendment law, Second Amendment law, family law, and Law, Policy, and Technology. Professor Franks is also an Affiliated Faculty member of the University of Miami Department of Philosophy. She also serves as the President and Legislative & Tech Policy Director of the Cyber Civil Rights Initiative, a nonprofit organization dedicated to combating online abuse and discrimination. In today's episode, Kathryn Rubino talks with Mary Ann about her recent book The Cult of the Constitution: Our Deadly Devotion to Guns and Free Speech. Enjoy!

Episode Resources

• [email protected]
• https://twitter.com/ma_franks
• https://www.cybercivilrights.org/

Episode Highlights

• Her recent book - 1:33
• Being a Law Professor - 2:03
• Her experience with Legal teaching - 3:40
• More justice for everyone - 4:20
• How she decided to write her book - 4:45
• What's the cult of the Constitution? - 6:06
• The nature of our Constitution - 7:40
• The founders of our Constitution - 8:34
• About slavery - 9:45
• The rights for women and minorities - 13:47
• The idea of Constitutional fundamentalist - 14:10
• Talking about the Second Amendment - 14:55
• Her thoughts about fundamentalists on free speech - 20:42
• Abuse, women, privacy, and law - 21:50
• Freedom and liberty of expression can not be separated - 22:18
• Liberty of expression and abuse - 22:48
• The idea of libertarianism - 24:04
• The dynamics of power and free speech - 24:42

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Andrea Freeman studies the intersection of critical race and class theory with issues of food policy, health, feminism, and consumer credit. Many of her articles explore her pioneering theory of food oppression, which examines how facially neutral food-related law, policy, and government action disproportionately harm marginalized communities. She also studies the effects of racism by credit card companies against consumers. Freeman teaches Constitutional Law, Federal Courts, and Race and Law at the University of Hawaii William S. Richardson School of Law. She is a member of the ACLU of Hawaii Litigation Committee and received the Community Faculty of the Year award in 2015.

• [email protected]
• Andrea's book: https://www.amazon.com/Skimmed-Breastfeeding-Injustice-Andrea-Freeman/dp/1503601129

• Being a Law Professor - 1:36
• Spending more time protesting than being at school - 2:22
• Her background - 4:04
• When she started to study law - 4:54
• Wanting to be a Law Professor - 7:29
• Food, racial discrimination, and injustice - 8:47
• Connections between food and racism - 9:37
• About her book: Skimmed - 12:25
• Food and racism - 15:17
• Stereotypes and injustice - 17:53
• Breastfeeding discrimination - 20:13
• The type of issue that needs a social movement - 26:32
• We need a cultural change - 26:55
• Areas that need reform - 28:03

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Roberta D. Liebenberg and Stephanie A. Scharf are the co-authors of a joint-report by the American Bar Association and ALM Intelligence called Walking Out the Door: the facts, figures, and future of experienced women lawyers in private practice. This report addresses why senior women are far more likely than men to leave the practice of law. Stay tuned!

• https://www.americanbar.org/products/inv/book/391971040/

• Talking about their research study - 1:31
• the percentage of women at different levels and their income - 3:06
• The everyday experience for women practicing law - 3:48
• Demonstrating their research - 4:27
• Is everything impacted by gender? - 5:09
• Everyday experience for women and men - 6:34
• Law firms management - 7:53
• What happens with meritocracy? - 10:10
• Results of the research when it comes to women's salary - 11:53
• Payment differences are defined by gender? - 12:06
• Clients are increasingly demanding - 14:13
• Law firms addressing the issue of retaining women lawyers - 15:30
• To implement a change, you'll need a strategy - 16:44
• Programs to keep women at law firms - 17:52
• A gender pay gap - 18:15
• The importance of transparency in the compensation system - 21:44
• Areas in which innovation is needed - 24:36

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Dana Rosenfeld is a Managing Partner at Kelley Drye Advertising Law. She is a member of the firm's Executive Committee and past chair of the firm's Privacy and Information Security practice. In the area of privacy and data security, Dana assists clients in complying with state and federal privacy and information security laws, as well as advice on best practices and self-regulatory programs. Furthermore, Dana advises major consumer financial services companies and service providers in connection with FTC and CFPB investigations involving marketing and billing practices, debt collection and data security. Enjoy this episode!

• https://www.kelleydrye.com/Our-People/Dana-B-Rosenfeld
• https://www.facebook.com/KelleyDryeAdvertisingLaw/
• https://www.linkedin.com/company/kelley-drye-&-warren-llp
• https://twitter.com/kelleydrye

• Wanting to work as a lawyer - 2:33
• Being specialized in the area since College - 2:47
• Representing companies under investigation - 3:21
• Figuring out how to change law firms - 5:22
• Why she decided to come to Kelley Drye - 5:48
• Feeling comfortable working at Kelley Drye - 6:03
• Using technology tools to assist better the clients - 8:20
• Why transparency is so important - 9:08
• How she decided to manage and be the leader of the firm - 10:31
• Having great mentors in her career - 14:04
• Two main things the firm is focusing on - 17:11
• The client service innovation community - 20:23
• The value of diversity in a Firm - 21:01
• The role of women in the firm - 23:07
• Having a lot of training programs for diversity - 25:52
• The first step is focusing on being an excellent lawyer - 27:02

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Jessica Robinson is the Vice President of Client Services at Casepoint. She plays an important role as Casepoint continues the expansion of its user base and resources it dedicates to client relationships and needs. Casepoint is a technology company focused on the digital transformation of litigation discovery. Jessica shares her background, her company mission, and other insights about her role at Casepoint. Enjoy!

• https://www.linkedin.com/company/casepoint-llc
• https://twitter.com/CasePoint
• https://www.casepoint.com/careers/

• How Jessica decided to go to law school - 1:43
• Having multiple advanced degrees - 2:49
• Her career experience - 4:23
• The legal field is expanding - 6:09
• Aren't law firms just for lawyers? - 6:59
• Jessica's MBA story - 8:40
• Her first exposure to an old school law firm - 11:59
• Being project manager - 13:05
• Do not be scared to lose a job - 14:10
• What she thinks about project management - 15:07
• What Casepoint does - 17:24
• Casepoint's culture - 18:40
• The future of the industry on the technology side - 19:40
• Applying her skill set to add value to the company - 23:49
• Describing her management style - 24:38
• Leadership is more than management - 26:43
• A piece of advice for those people who are working at legal technology - 29:47

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