Kim Chakanetsa hosts a conversation between Judge Khalida Rachid Khan, Pakistan's first woman judge, and Justice Mandisa Maya, the first black woman to be appointed to the Supreme Court of Appeal in South Africa.

Judge Khalida Rachid Khan was appointed to the bench in Peshawar in 1974, a place still known for its conservative values. She describes how people would try to get into court to witness the 'spectacle' of a woman judge and how she dealt with male lawyers refusing to appear before her. After rising through the ranks of the judiciary in Pakistan she is now presiding over the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda in The Hague where hearing the disturbing testimonies of genocide survivors has given her sleepless nights but also great job satisfaction.

Justice Mandisa Maya sits in the Supreme Court of Appeal in South Africa. She was the first black African woman to be appointed to that court, one of the highest in the country. On her first day Mandisa was turned away from the main judges' entrance because staff there found it unbelievable that she could hold such a position.

The judges talk about switching off from the job and which programmes they avoid on television to stay sane!

(Photo: L - R, chief high court Judge Helen Winkelmann, justice Ellen France, chief justice Dame Sian Elias, high court manager Jane Penney arrive for the Opening of Parliament, New Zealand. Credit: Hagen Hopkins/Getty Images)