Listen to our first Conversation Across Difference, Episode 102. 

Join us at the God at 'I' Level photography exhibit. 

Progressive and conservative: do ever the twain meet? What are safe spaces across current divides on topics that matter? And, when we do talk across divides, how do we get below the surface?

Today's Conversation Across Difference is about a hot topic in the Episcopal Church, and nearly every church right now: human sexuality and marriage. How do we engage a topic in which each side believes this isn't just about difference of opinion, but, as one of our guests points out today, also about sin. 

Can say what we really believe and stay at the same table? If we don't condone one another's beliefs, even about self, love, or family life, can we still love and respect one another? If so, what are the difficulties? And what unexpected discoveries might be made if we keep talking?

The Episcopal Church has a Communion Across Difference Task Force that talks about these things, prays together, and takes action to preserve safe spaces for these diagloues within the church. Two guests join us today, both priests in the Episcopal Church, members of the task force, and friends. The Rev. Dr. Jordan Hylden is our guest who affirms Christian marriage as the union of male and female, and the Rev. Kelli Joyce is our guest who affirms Christian marriage regardless of gender. They join us today to describe their work together.

Wherever you're coming from, I hope this episode helps you to have more fruitful, honest relationships with others with whom you disagree. 

The Rev. Kelli Joyce is a priest of the Diocese of Arizona, currently living and ministering in the Diocese of Tennessee. She is a candidate for the Ph.D. in Theological Studies at Vanderbilt University.

The Rev. Dr. Jordan Hylden is vice rector at Episcopal Church of the Ascension in Lafayette, Louisiana. Jordan has served churches in South Carolina and Texas, and also as canon theologian and vocations director for the Diocese of Dallas.

Our executive director, Matthew Olver, also joined us as co-host.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Listen to our first Conversation Across Difference, Episode 102. 

Join us at the God at 'I' Level photography exhibit. 

What's the proper scope of Christian politics?

Should Christians be politically active, and if so, how? Is the political sphere and its options a place of anxiety and ceaseless activity that should be avoided? Is it a place of possibility to "bring heaven to earth"? Does it have value as a place of failure and limitation? And what do politics have to do with loving neighbors, worshipping God, or writing letters to our children? 

Much -- perhaps. And maybe most effectively in the spheres that are smallest, least ambitious, and closest to home. 

Today we talk with the Rev. Dr. Ephraim Radner about his new book, Mortal Goods: Reimagining Christian Political Duty. We'll discuss how our daily, imperfect lives and the mortal goods that make them up can help us define and limit the scope of Christian political vision and action. If our hope does not rest in this world, how are we then freed to take care in this world, and take care of this world, with sobriety, joy, and thankfulness? 

Ephraim is professor emeritus of historical theology at Wycliffe College, Toronto. His range of ministerial experience includes ministry and teaching in Burundi, Haiti, inner-city Cleveland, Connecticut, and Colorado. He's the author of several books including Mortal Goods, which we discuss today, A Time to Keep, A Brutal Unity, and The End of the Church. He is married to the Rev. Annette Brownlee and they are the parents of Hannah and Isaac.

Hold that NPR newsfeed for just a minute. We're going to step back to ancient Israel to remember what exactly God asks of human beings. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Register for The Human Pilgrimage conference. 

Episcopalians have a love-hate relationship with evangelism. Everyone is welcome into an Episcopal church, but how do they get there? Is it true that "everyone who should be an Episcopalian, is"? Isn't evangelism what other Christians do who have lots of enthusiasm but less natural restraint and good taste? Is there an Episcopal, or even an Anglican, way to be an evangelist? 

According to the Rev. Canon Stephanie Spellers, you bet. There is very much a way for Episcopalians to be active evangelists. It's not about being selling vacuum cleaners, and it's not about building it and they will come. You don't even have to leave your Episcopal hat behind. But you may need to be willing to lay aside some preconceptions.

Today we'll pop in on a conversation with Canon Stephanie, who is basically the current evangelist in residence and evagelism teacher for the whole Episcopal Church. We talk about how she came to the Episcopal Church, and how she came to have the heart she does for wanderers and seekers, and how discovering Jesus in every step of every person's spiritual journey is part and parcel of the Anglican way. 

Stephanie serves as Canon to Presiding Bishop Michael B. Curry and spearheads Episcopal efforts around evangelism, racial reconciliation and creation care. Her newest books are The Church Cracked Open: Disruption, Decline and New Hope for Beloved Community and an updated 15th anniversary edition Radical Welcome: Embracing God, The Other and the Spirit of Transformation. She has served as Chaplain to the Episcopal House of Bishops, taught mission and evangelism at General Theological Seminary, and served as a canon in the Diocese of Long Island. We'll talk about more of her story in the episode today and include a link in the show notes to learn more about her recent work.

Now shod those feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace, tie the laces tight. But stay loose. Today we're going to drop the E Word, then pick it up and run with it. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

See more of Canon Stephanie's recent work.

Register for The Human Pilgrimage conference.

Learn more about the Human Pilgrimage conference.

Learn more about Steve Prince's work.

Learn more about Jessica Hooten Wilson's work.

A disgruntled white southern intellectual named Walter lives on his family's farm. They all think his fancy learning makes him good for nothing. On top of that, Walter thinks he's dying. Walter decides to pretend, through a penpal relationship with a social justice activist, that he is Black. A story unfolds from the deceit. This is a Flannery O'Connor story that you have probably never read, and we'll discuss it today on the podcast.

Unlike Flannery's other works, a conversion and baptism come early in this story, and the rest of the book, which was never finished, was intended to ask, "What next?" Instead of the one fell swoop of the Holy Ghost readers are used to, what does the radical work of grace look like over time?

Fragments of the unfinished novel have just been released, along with context-setting essays and commentary, by literary scholar and writer, Jessica Hooten Wilson. The book is called Why Do the Heathen Rage?, and it is further illuminated with powerful artwork by artist Steve Prince.

The story fragments are fascinating, but the gloss Steve and Jessica provide help us unpack what's going on with Flannery. Sorry megafan, but she was not a saint. And in this broken text, we actually watch her come up against her limits as a white southerner of her times and as a writer. What was she doing? What, maybe, was God doing? And what can we learn from her today? 

We discuss O'Connor's work, intersections with Malcolm X and James Baldwin, what stories do to harm or heal, and what art and artistic collaborations make possible. 

Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson is the Fletcher Jones Endowed Chair of Great Books at Pepperdine University. She is the author or editor of several books, including Flannery O’Connor’s Why Do the Heathen Rage? A Behind-the-Scenes Look at a Work in Progress, Reading for the Love of God, and two award-winning books of literary scholarship: The Scandal of Holiness, and Giving the Devil His Due: Demonic Authority in the Fiction of Flannery O’Connor and Fyodor Dostoevsky.

Steve A. Prince is a mixed media artist, master printmaker, lecturer, educator, and art evangelist with his MFA in Printmaking and Sculpture from Michigan State University. He is the Director of Engagement and Distinguished Artist in Residence at the Muscarelle Museum at William and Mary. A native of New Orleans, he currently resides in Williamsburg, Virginia. 

Now pour yourself a big ol' glass of sweet tea and hold on to your rocking chair. This exploration of Flannery O'Connor won't be what you're used to. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Donate to the Ahli Arab Hospital. 

Today's is a short and very special conversation captured on the fly at the Episcopal Parish Network Conference in Houston, Texas, with Dr. Suhaila Tarazi.

If you haven't heard of Suhaila, then you have certainly heard of her workplace. She is the director of the Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza, which was recently in the news for a bomb that fell in their parking lot.

How did Suhaila receive a call from God, three times, to direct the hospital? What is the state of the hospital now? What is she praying for? And how has her friendship with Nicholas served a mutual mission for flourishing life for Arab and Jewish neighbors?

Special thanks to Joe Swimmer, La'Zendra Danforth, and their team, for carving out a space to record in a very busy conference center. Thanks to Nicholas Porter for arranging the conversation.

Lean in for the short but sweet privilege of hearing from a woman it was an incredible honor to meet. We hope you enjoy the conversation. 

Donate to the Ahli Arab Hospital. 

Follow Philip Yancey's blog.

Read Philip's new book, Undone.

No man is an island,

Entire of itself.

Each is a piece of the continent,

A part of the main.

If a clod be washed away by the sea,

Europe is the less.

As well as if a promontory were.

As well as if a manor of thine own

Or of thine friend's were.

Each man's death diminishes me,

For I am involved in mankind.

Therefore, send not to know

For whom the bell tolls,

It tolls for thee.

Welcome back podcast listeners. Quite a Lenten poem, eh? For Western listeners, we are in the last week of Lent before Holy Week, first week for our Eastern brethren.

Meeting here in Lententide, we thought it would be a good time for a conversation about someone who has reflected deeply on sin, suffering, pain, and the faithful presence of God. Well, two people actually. The 17th-century priest and poet, John Donne, whose famous poem we opened with, and author Philip Yancey.

The poem above is actually an excerpt from a longer work called Devotions that Donne wrote from his sickbed, in a time of plague, disorientation, and deep discouragement. Where and how did he find God with him? 

TLC had the joy of talking with Philip Yancey about his new book, a modern paraphrase of Devotions called Undone, and about Phillip's own story, particularly as it relates to a recent diagnosis of Parkinson's disease.

Philip Yancey has explored questions and mysteries of the Christian faith for decades in best-selling works such as Disappointment with God, Where is God When it Hurts?, and What’s So Amazing About Grace? Philip has written more than 25 books, and his latest release is Undone: A Modern Rendering of John Donne's Devotions. Philip and his wife live in the foothills of Colorado.

Check out John Behr's new translation of Gregory of Nyssa's On the Human Image of God.

What does it mean to be human? We pay attention to our broken humanity more during Lent. And there's that phrase, when we make a mistake, "I'm only human!" 

True. But what about the glory and promise of being human? What kind of humanity we see in the pattern of Christ? How do we live now, if our destiny is to be, as the saints tell us, "raised with Christ" who is "seated at the right hand of God"?

Today we'll talk with theologian John Behr about St. Gregory of Nyssa's work, On the Human Image of God, and John's new translation of it. We'll listen in as Gregory, like the theological rock star he is, takes a melody from Plato and riffs hard, but with a Christian anthropology, and creates nothing less than an anthem to God's saving work in Jesus.

What is a human? How do humans have a special relationship with death? And how does the gospel, and especially John's gospel, peel back the curtain on what Jesus' humanity is doing for all creatures?

The Rev. Dr. John Behr is Regius Professor of Humanity at the University of Aberdeen. He previously taught at St. Vladmir's Seminary, where he served as dean from 2007-17. John is also the Metropolitan Kallistos Chair of Orthodox Theology at the Vrije Universiteit of Amsterdam and the Amsterdam Center for Orthodox Theology. 

(Finally a quick shout-out: if you're interested in this question, What does it mean to be human?, then save the date, friends! The Living Church is hosting a conference this September 26-28 in Oklahoma City entitled The Human Pilgrimage: A Conference on How to Live. We've got a beautiful slate of speakers, including Katherine Sonderegger, Amy Peeler, Victor Austin, and Graham Tomlin. Watch any Living Church space for registration coming soon.)

Now brush up on your Greek, because there will be a test on the Timaeus at the end of this. (Just kidding.) We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Get in touch with Fr. Nate for further conversation.

Check out Fr. Nate's book, Festive School.

Read Fr. Nate's article on neurodivergence in the classical classroom. 

Learn more about Trust-Based Relational Intervention (TBRI).

When trying to consider budget as well as mission and ministry, churches of many sizes offer educational service, from a small daycare to a prestigious Episcopal prep school. And these are often built on a classical school models.

Classical education refers specifically to a model of education centered on the Western classical trivium of grammar, logic, and rhetoric. If you can do a classical school well, you can provide a great education and do very well for your budget. 

But does it produce snobby kids? Put another way, does it shelter privileged kids even further, and prevent kids with disadvantages from experiencing a remarkable community of learning?

One way to negotiate this is through scholarships, or through careful intentionality in enrollment or curriculum development. But our guest today has also explored ways to make sure that kids with disabilities -- including neurodivergence -- are welcomed and integrated into a classical community. What they've discovering is an unusual model for classical education, and an unexpected ministry of healing.

My guest today is the Rev. Nathan Carr. Nate is a bi-vocational priest serving as vicar of St. John’s Oklahoma City and headmaster of The Academy of Classical Christian Studies, a multi-campus school serving 1,000 PreK-12 students across the Oklahoma City metro. He's the author of Festive School (Classical Academic Press), on the importance of festivity in Christian education. He and his wife Sarah have six children who bless their home, including kiddos with neurodivergence.

He's also written a related article on the Living Church's award-winning blog, Covenant. 

Now sharpen your pencils and warm up your singing voice. We're headed to school. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Buy the Roads of Hurt and Hope Holy Land Lenten study. (All proceeds go to the Anglican Diocese of Jerusalem.)

All eyes are on the Holy Land right now, as the conflict between Hamas and Israel continues, over a hundred kidnapped Israelis still missing, over a thousand Israeli civilians dead, and tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians killed in the crossfire.

As many of you will know, the Living Church postponed a pilgrimage to the Holy Land until further notice. The name of this pilgrimage is In the Footsteps of Jesus. Today we'll be talking with someone who has walked in the footsteps of Jesus many times, as a pilgrimage leader, as well as a resident of Jerusalem. And not only in the footsteps of Jesus, but in the footsteps of Abraham and Sarah, Jacob, David, the apostles, the woman at the well, and many more ancestors in the faith, as well as citizens of the land today.

What is it about this place that people have fallen in love with for thousands of years? Why has God met so many people on its roads? What do these roads teach us, not only in human footsteps, but in the rocks and water, plants and animals along the way, about God’s presence and faithfulness? And what can we see there now, especially in time for Lent?

We enjoyed speaking about all this with the Rev. Canon Dr. Andrew D. Mayes. Andrew has served as spirituality adviser to the Diocese of Chichester and to the Diocese of Cyprus and the Gulf. He has lived several years in Jerusalem, as a theological researcher and later as director of courses of St. George’s College, of which he is an associate professor. He is the author of 16 spirituality books including the award-winning Learning the Language of the Soul, Beyond the Edge, and, most recently, Roads of Hurt and Hope: Transformative Journeys in the Holy Land. (This last book is a Lent study, and all the proceeds will go to the Anglican Diocese of Jerusalem for the rebuilding of the Anglican hospital in Gaza.) 

Tighten your hiking shoes and pack a lunch, and don’t forget, if you get a moment, to buy a souvenir. We’re going on a journey today, across time and an ancient, beloved landscape. Sometimes strenuous, sometimes quiet. Often surprising. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Check out some of our favorite episodes of the podcast.

Learn more about the Living Church and check out some of our favorite podcast episodes.

Happy Epiphany!

I love seasons, the changes of seasons. The distinct character of each one.

Different seasons and times bring out different flavors, different inner lives of the land and landscapes. I think humans are similar. Even whole cultures. Different eras show up or play down certain shapes that human life can take, certain imaginative landscapes and possibilities.

But across space and seasons we do have one Lord. That's the crazy revelation of Epiphany. But how does this same Lord show up differently in different times and places? 

Today we'll be talking with Dr. Grace Hamman, author of the new book, Jesus Through Medieval Eyes. Grace is a writer and independent scholar of Middle English contemplative writing and poetry and hosts the literature podcast, Old Books with Grace. Jesus through Medieval Eyes is a remarkably enjoyable book. 

Jesus jousting. Jesus giving birth. Jesus as judge, lover, mother, or knight were common images for Christ in the middle ages. How might they help us in our time, heal our contemporary views of justice and judgment, love and lovers, gender and sex?

Now brush up on your middle English. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Read Jesus Through Medieval Eyes.

Learn more about the Living Church and check out some of our favorite podcast episodes.