In December, Defense Secretary James Mattis resigned in protest after President Trump announced plans to withdraw troops from Syria. As the last "adult in the room" at the White House, critics worried his departure would loosen the president’s behavior even further. Days after the news broke though, Christmas and the government shutdown pushed Mattis’ resignation into the background. 

Now, nine months later, he’s beginning to speak publicly again. For the latest issue of the magazine, Editor-in-Chief Jeffrey Goldberg had a series of conversations with Mattis following his resignation. He re-joins Radio Atlantic with host Edward-Isaac Dovere.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices