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The Marketing Rules Podcast
By ThinkinCircles LtdBusiness
The Marketing Rules Podcast episodes
- The Hidden Risks That Kill Recruitment Agency Sales With Matt Fox
Most recruitment founders say they want to sell their agency one day.
But the reality is very different.
In this episode of The Marketing Rules Podcast, James Whitelock sits down with Matt Fox, founder of Exodus Advisory, to talk about what actually happens when recruitment businesses try to exit and why so few ever make it to a successful sale.
After more than 25 years in recruitment, building and eventually exiting his own agency, Matt now works with recruitment founders to grow, optimise and prepare their businesses for sale. Unlike traditional brokers who only appear when someone decides to sell, Matt often works with owners years in advance, helping them fix the structural issues that destroy valuation.
In this conversation, we unpack the biggest risks inside recruitment agencies that buyers look for, why owner dependency can kill a deal, and how factors like marketing, brand positioning and candidate experience can significantly increase the appeal and value of a business.
If you run a recruitment agency and think you might exit one day, this episode will change how you think about building your business.
In this episode we discuss:
- Why fewer than 10% of businesses that want to sell actually do
- The hidden risks buyers look for when evaluating recruitment agencies
- Why owner dependency is one of the biggest valuation killers
- The real role of brand and marketing in making a business more attractive to buyers
- How candidate experience can actually be monetised
- Why most recruitment agencies still struggle to differentiate themselves
- What founders should be doing years before they ever think about selling
Whether you're building to exit, scaling for growth, or simply want to run a stronger recruitment business, this episode is packed with insights from someone who sits on both sides of the table.
The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by Smart Sifty
smartsifty.com
#MarketingRules
#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing
To connect with Matt:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-fox-50b10311/
Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:
https://thinkincircles.com/
https://www.themarketingrules.com/
31 min - The Truth About Recruitment Content Nobody Talks About With Joel Lalgee
What happens when a recruiter stops relying purely on cold calls and starts building an audience instead?
In this episode of the Marketing Rules Podcast, James Whitelock sits down with Joel Lalgee, widely known as The Realest Recruiter. Joel has built one of the most recognisable personal brands in recruitment, growing a global following across TikTok, LinkedIn and YouTube while continuing to operate as an executive recruiter.
Joel shares the story behind how he went from agency recruiter to content creator, why he committed to posting consistently, and what happened when that visibility started turning into real business opportunities.
The conversation digs into the changing reality of recruitment. Outreach is easier than ever thanks to automation and AI, but getting someone’s attention is harder than ever. Joel explains why personal branding, authenticity and trust are becoming the most valuable assets recruiters can build.
James and Joel also discuss the evolving role of content in recruitment, the mistakes people make when trying to copy influencer-style formats, and why the recruiters who succeed in the next decade will look more like media creators than traditional salespeople.
In this episode they discuss:
- How Joel accidentally fell into recruitment and built a decade-long career in agency
- Why personal branding started as an experiment on LinkedIn
- What happened when Joel committed to posting content every single day
- Why attention and trust are now the hardest things for recruiters to earn
- The real impact AI and automation are having on outreach and sales
- Why the traditional “50 cold calls a day” model is becoming less effective
- How recruiters can combine marketing, content and relationship building
- The story behind The Realest Recruiter brand and how it became a business
- How Joel monetises content through speaking, partnerships and executive search
- Why authenticity and originality beat copying influencer-style content
What listeners will take away:
- A clear understanding of why personal branding is becoming essential in recruitment
- Practical ideas for creating content that actually builds trust and visibility
- A new perspective on how recruiters can stand out in a crowded, AI-driven market
- Inspiration to think differently about business development and relationship building
- Why the future recruiter may look more like a creator than a salesperson.
The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by Smart Sifty
smartsifty.com
#MarketingRules
#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing
To connect with Joel:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joellalgee/
Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:
https://thinkincircles.com/
https://www.themarketingrules.com/
35 min - Is Your Recruitment Website Already Obsolete With Dave Jenkins
James is joined by Dave Jenkins, CEO and Founder of Wave, who has spent 25 years building recruitment websites and watching them evolve from simple brochure sites to powerful marketing and tech platforms.
We get into the future of the recruitment website, the impact of AI, candidate experience, and why your site should be your hardest-working asset, not just something that sits online looking pretty.
#MarketingRules
#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing
To connect with Dave:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/davefromwave/
Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:
https://thinkincircles.com/
https://www.themarketingrules.com/
31 min - AI Isn’t Replacing Recruiters. It’s Exposing Who Actually Scales With Manan Shah
This week, James was joined by Manan Shah, co-founder and CEO of Recruiterflow.
They get into what recruitment data really matters, why most agencies obsess over the wrong metrics, and how velocity, productivity, and AI are reshaping how recruitment businesses scale.
If you care about building a faster, smarter, more resilient recruitment operation, this one’s for you.
#MarketingRules
#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing
To connect with Manan:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mananshah212/
Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:
https://thinkincircles.com/
https://www.themarketingrules.com/
29 min - Why Football Clubs Attract Talent Better Than Most Businesses with Zoe Shackleton
In this episode James is joined by Zoe Shackleton, Head of HR and Equality, Diversity and Inclusion at Huddersfield Town Football Club.
Zoe sits on the other side of the table to most of TMRP listeners, she’s the end client recruiters are trying to win over.
They talk candidly about talent attraction in football, what genuinely inclusive hiring looks like in practice, and how strong culture and smart use of technology drive retention in high-pressure environments.
#MarketingRules
#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing
To connect with Zoe:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zoe-shackleton-fcipd-38167418/
Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:
https://thinkincircles.com/
https://www.themarketingrules.com/
28 min - What No One Tells You About Selling Your Recruitment Tech Company with Thomas Vose
In this episode, James is joined by Thomas Vose, co-founder of HireAra, to unpack what it really takes to build a recruitment tech business from scratch and successfully exit it.
They discuss the challenges of bootstrapping, angel investment, avoiding the VC trap, and what life is really like after being acquired.
If you’re building, scaling, or thinking about selling a rec tech business, this one is packed with real lessons from the front line.
#MarketingRules
#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing
To connect with Thomas:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-vose-149788108/
Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:
https://thinkincircles.com/
https://www.themarketingrules.com/
30 min - This is The Marketing Rules Podcast
The Marketing Rules Podcast cuts through the noise to bring you real conversations with the people shaping recruitment, talent, and RecTech. Each episode gives you practical strategies, sharper thinking, and the stories behind the ideas that move our industry forward.
1 min - The Developer Revolution Is Here. Are You Ready? With Rudi Bauer
In this episode, James sits down with Rudi Bauer, someone we’ve wanted on the show for a long time.
They explore his journey from software developer to leading Europe’s largest developer community and dig into what developers really want today, how their values are changing, and what skills will shape the future of tech talent.
It is a sharp, honest look at where the market is heading and what it means for employers and candidates alike.
The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by RChill
https://www.rchilli.com/
#MarketingRules
#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing
To connect with Rudi:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rudi-bauer-1b325813/
Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:
https://thinkincircles.com/
https://www.themarketingrules.com/
28 min - Why Everyone’s Talking About South African Talent With Ross Thompson
In this episode, James is joined on the couch, in person, by Ross Thompson, founder of Infinity Staff Global, to unpack how he has successfully expanded from Australia into the UK recruitment market.
They get into why he chose South Africa over the Philippines for offshore talent, how cultural fit and time zones impact performance, and why clients are turning to offshore solutions as the cost of employing in the UK and Australia continues to rise.
The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by RChill
https://www.rchilli.com/
#MarketingRules
#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing
To connect with Ross:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rossnthompson/
Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:
https://thinkincircles.com/
https://www.themarketingrules.com/
25 min - Why True Innovation Starts with People, Not Products With Benn Klewpatinond
Every now and then, you meet someone who doesn’t just imagine the future — they build it.
In this episode, James talks to Benn Klewpatinond.A designer, engineer, and inventor whose creations blur the line between technology and humanity. From rethinking the rowing machine with his Float Rower invention to shaping inclusive, purpose-driven products through his company INOND, Benn’s work is all about empathy, innovation, and impact.
Bennhow the mind of a modern inventor works: where ideas come from, how they take shape, and what it really means to design for everyone.
The Marketing Rules Podcast is sponsored by RChill
https://www.rchilli.com/
#MarketingRules
#TheVoiceOfRecruitmentMarketing
To connect with Benn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bennklewpatinond/
Learn more about James and ThinkinCircles:
https://thinkincircles.com/
https://www.themarketingrules.com/
39 min
About The Marketing Rules Podcast
From the publisher's feed
The Marketing Rules Podcast from ThinkinCircles, with your host James Whitelock "The voice of Recruitment Marketing".
James takes a deep dive into all things Recruitment Marketing, from strategy, technology and delivery. Talking to leaders and influencers from the Recruitment Marketing space globally. To keep up-to-date with the new "rules" for Recruitment marketing, tune in every week.