The meez Podcast

#148

Josh sits down with David Corts, CEO of Fresh Technology, the company behind Fresh KDS, now running in roughly 11,000 restaurant locations. David started his career in New York in the mid-90s as the first employee at @plan, met his wife of 25 years on a Metro North reverse commute while she was one of the first 20 employees at Priceline, and later sold a business to AOL, landing there as a VP of product under Tim Armstrong. He was also an English major, which he took to abbreviating as "ENG" once the Google transplants at AOL started asking what he studied, and now argues was his real advantage all along. He got to Fresh six years ago, a software division spun out of a restaurant holding company, walked away from online ordering in the middle of the pandemic, and bet the whole business on the kitchen display system instead.

The conversation keeps circling one idea: the number most operators measure is not the thing that actually happened. David argues that the middle layer of management, the part that exists to collect what happened and report it upward, is being abstracted away, and that the new bottleneck is coordination rather than execution. He explains why he blew up his own process ceremony, why he now hires only for people who unblock themselves, and how his personal knowledge vault became a company brain running on two repos, one PR-gated and one wide open. Josh tees up the 1950 Air Force study where Gilbert Daniels measured 4,063 pilots and found zero who were average on all ten dimensions the cockpit was built around, which sets off his case against average ticket time. The guest never experiences your average. They experience their order. They also get into whether sous vide counts as cheating, the rent-free SoHo apartment David's brother occupied for seven years, and why open beats closed in the long run.

Links and resources 📌

Visit meez: https://www.getmeez.com

Follow meez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getmeez

Follow Josh on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshlsharkey/?hl=en

Follow Josh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-sharkey-406965b/

Visit Fresh KDS: https://www.fresh.technology

Follow Fresh KDS on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fresh.kds/

Follow David on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dcorts/

Timestamps

08:40 Building A Team Of "We'll Figure It Out" People

11:11 AI, Management, And The New Coordination Bottleneck

19:08 Lessons From The Dot-Com Era: AI Is Just A Utility

23:13 Services As Software And Customization At Scale

33:09 Why A Liberal Arts Background Is An Advantage In The AI Age

39:11 Spinning Out Fresh KDS And Betting On The Kitchen

47:06 Why Averages Are Dumb

53:12 Turning Kitchen Data Into Meaning With AI

58:59 Building A Personal Second Brain And A Company AI Operating System

01:13:50 The SaaSpocalypse, Headless Software, And Why Open Beats Closed

We're revisiting one of our favorite conversations from the meez Podcast archives. As The Chef Conference continues to bring together some of the brightest minds in hospitality, Mike Traud's insights on culinary education, community, and professional growth are just as relevant today as when this episode first aired.

Welcome to this captivating episode of The meez Podcast, where we explore the heart of culinary innovation and education with our distinguished guest, Mike Traud,  founder of The Chef Conference (formerly known as the Philly Chef Conference) in the gastronomic hub of Philadelphia. With a legacy spanning over a decade and 10 groundbreaking conferences, Mike has significantly contributed to the culinary landscape through this annual event, which started during his tenure as the Director of Hospitality Management at Drexel University.

In today's conversation, we uncover the essence of The Chef Conference, exploring its evolution, significance, and what makes it a beacon for culinary professionals worldwide. Mike, with his rich background in hospitality law, culinary arts, and education, and his notable stint with Marc Vetri, brings a wealth of knowledge and insight into creating an event that not only celebrates but also advances the culinary industry.

Our dialogue extends into the meticulous planning and sheer effort required to bring such a conference to life, highlighting Mike's dedication and passion for fostering community and innovation among chefs and culinary enthusiasts alike. The Chef Conference has become a coveted gathering, attracting an impressive roster of culinary talents and thought leaders, indicative of its prestige and impact on the culinary world.

Adding a personal touch to our discussion, our CEO and founder, Josh Sharkey, shares his excitement and anticipation for moderating a panel on menu development, featuring celebrated chefs Ariel Johnson, Mr. Lyan, Rosio Sanchez, and Thomas Frebel. This opportunity not only allows for an engaging exploration of culinary creativity but also marks Josh's inaugural experience in panel moderation—a journey inspired by the conference's ethos of organic, passionate participation from all involved.

Moreover, we delve into the vital conversation about the intersection of education and industry, a theme close to Mike's heart, given his extensive background in academia. This discussion sheds light on the ongoing debate regarding the relevance of culinary education and how initiatives like The Chef Conference are pivotal in bridging the gap, ensuring a symbiotic relationship between learning and practical application.

As we gear up for this year's Chef Conference, taking place from April 12-15, we invite you to immerse yourself in the plethora of panels and special events lined up.

Links and resources 📌

Visit meez: https://www.getmeez.com

Follow meez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getmeez

Follow Josh on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshlsharkey/?hl=en

Follow Josh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-sharkey-406965b/

Follow MJ on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mjtraud/

Follow The Chef Conference on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thechefconference/

Timestamps

(04:53) Mike's background in law and how he transitioned to food

(11:50) Where to eat in Philly

(14:21) How The Chef Conference was created

(16:23) The gap between education and industry

(19:49) Mike's goal for the conference

(22:41) Menu Development 101 panel

(24:09) How Mike chooses which panels to have during the conference

(30:10) What Mike loves most about the conference

(37:35) Biggest challenges faced every year

(44:52) The benefits of an intimate conference

(52:54) Goals for future conferences

Josh sits down with Sean Josephs, founder of Pinhook Bourbon and the new subscription-only Old Joseph's, for a conversation that traces two decades in restaurants and spirits. Sean didn't find the industry until he was 30, after five directionless years in fashion and beauty account management, before landing as a food runner at Tia Pol, the Chelsea restaurant his wife Mani opened in 2004. From there he trained under master sommelier Roger Dagorn at Chanterelle, then went on to build Char No. 4 in Brooklyn, Maysville, and Kenton's in Manhattan, all before relocating to New Orleans. Along the way he became one of the earliest people to treat bourbon the way sommeliers treat wine, pouring small tastes at a time and eventually founding Pinhook, a brand built around buying young barrels on lineage and being transparent about where the whiskey actually comes from.

The conversation moves through the mechanics of the bourbon industry that most drinkers never think about: why big brands dilute their whiskey down to 80-86 proof and chill filter it to hide inconsistency between barrels, how scarcity turned Pappy Van Winkle into a cult bottle despite sharing a mash bill with Weller 12, and how vintage bottles that sold for $58 a decade ago now go for $10,000. Sean and Josh debate what connoisseurship actually means, identifying quality even in something you personally dislike, argue about when homemade beats store-bought (can you really beat Heinz), and dig into why bourbon barrels aging in Kentucky have tripled since 2012, helped along by private equity speculation. It closes on Sean's bet for what comes next: the best bourbon hasn't been made yet, and it won't come from a single distillery.

Links and Resources📌 

Sean's website: https://pinhookbourbon.com 

Follow Sean on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theseanjosephs/ 

Follow Sean on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sean-josephs-a1126573/

Visit meez: https://www.getmeez.com 

Follow meez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getmeez 

Follow Josh on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshlsharkey/?hl=en 

Follow Josh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-sharkey-406965b/

#146

Josh sits down with Jason Anello, better known as Janello, at Da Nico on Mulberry Street in Manhattan's Little Italy. Janello is an experience strategist on a mission to bring back dinnertime. That inspired him to create The Red Sauce Map and the Forking Tasty supper club so others can experience dinnertime through his Italian-American lense. They trace how Italian immigration and New World abundance turned scarcity cooking into stacked, saucy, unmistakably American plates, and why chicken parm has no Parmesan in it at all. Janello defines what actually qualifies a restaurant as a red sauce joint, from the antipasto and the tiramisu to the photos on the wall and the bottle of cheap Chianti, and runs down his top chicken parms and lasagnas across the country. 

The conversation moves through fresh versus dried pasta, the ricotta dishes he can live without, and a segment called In Memory Of, where the two of them eulogize the neighborhood spots that have closed. From there it turns to the new generation of chefs reinterpreting the genre, what Carbone understood about theater and hospitality, and the three reasons Janello thinks these restaurants really close. It is a warm, opinionated look at a category of restaurant that is equal parts food, memory, and cultural preservation. 

 
Links and resources 📌

Visit meez: https://www.getmeez.com

Follow meez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getmeez

Follow Josh on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshlsharkey/?hl=en

Follow Josh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-sharkey-406965b/

Red Sauce Map: https://www.theredsaucemap.com

Follow Janello on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/forkingtasty

Follow Janello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janello/

Timestamps 

02:07 The History Of Red Sauce Joints In America 

04:23 How Janello Defines A Red Sauce Joint 

06:49 The Chicken Parm Origin Story 1

1:16 Janello's Top Five Chicken Parms In The Country 

13:03 What Makes A Great Chicken Parm 

14:45 Lasagna, Manicotti, And The Ricotta Debate 

20:50 The Checklist Every Red Sauce Joint Should Meet 

22:45 In Memory Of: The Closed Joints He Misses Most 

25:51 Old School Versus The New Red Sauce Joint 

33:50 The Three Reasons Red Sauce Joints Close 

#145

Josh sits down with chef, restaurateur, author, and television pioneer Rocco DiSpirito for a wide-ranging conversation about how dramatically the path of a chef has changed. Recorded at Bar Rocco, the episode begins with Josh realizing that Rocco actually judged a cooking competition he entered 25 years ago, before the two revisit their shared connection to legendary chef Gray Kunz. Rocco traces his own path from earning 50 cents an hour at a Queens pizzeria to culinary school, Europe, Lespinasse, Union Pacific, television, health and wellness, and eventually back into restaurants. Along the way, they unpack what young cooks once had to endure to gain access to culinary knowledge and whether today's chefs really need the same years of repetition and classical training now that so much information is instantly available online.  

Rocco and Josh also get into the realities of building a sustainable career as a chef, from why great food alone may no longer be enough to why Rocco's former business partner taught him to balance "perfecting" with "promoting." They discuss social media, chef IP, restaurant ownership, licensing and management deals, and why Rocco believes younger chefs shouldn't become overly protective of a name or trademark. Rocco shares how triathlon training transformed his approach to health and led to nine health and wellness books, names some of the cookbooks that shaped him, and gets deep into the technique behind cooking with black truffles. The conversation closes with what's ahead: more Bar Rocco, a new book blending recipes and stories, his work with CookUnity, and, above all, a desire to keep cooking.  

Links and resources 📌

Visit meez: https://www.getmeez.com

Follow meez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getmeez

Follow Josh on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshlsharkey/?hl=en

Follow Josh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-sharkey-406965b/

Follow Rocco on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rocco-dispirito-27125916/

Follow Rocco on Instagram: @roccodispirito

Visit Rocco DiSpirito: https://www.roccodispirito.com/

Visit Bar Rocco: https://www.barroccony.com/

Timestamps

00:00 Reconnecting 25 years after Josh first met Rocco

06:42 Rocco's early career, culinary school, and Gray Kunz

14:11 How a Queens pizzeria changed Rocco's life

18:02 Why the traditional path to becoming a chef has changed

23:42 Training cooks when fundamentals are no longer assumed

27:26 Why chefs need media to build sustainable careers

37:46 Protecting chef IP and rethinking restaurant ownership

41:45 How health and triathlons transformed Rocco's cooking

49:52 The cookbooks that shaped Rocco as a chef

53:17 Black truffles, flavor, and the value of hands-on experience

We’re revisiting Part Two of Josh’s conversation with legendary chef Wylie Dufresne, continuing their fireside chat from the annual meez team summit at the Tarrytown Estates outside New York City. After exploring the story and philosophy behind wd~50 in Part One, Wylie tackles some not-so-quick-fire questions, shares the unexpected inspiration behind Stretch Pizza, and takes questions from the audience.

Chef Wylie reveals how stumbling upon a Breville pizza oven during the pandemic sparked an obsession with pizza-making. His desire to understand every lever and variable behind the perfect dough became a source of stimulation and happiness during a difficult period and ultimately helped inspire the opening of Stretch Pizza.

The conversation also explores the difference between copying a recipe and truly mastering a craft. Wylie explains why great cooking comes from years of practice and repetition, the importance of seeking honest feedback, and learning to recognize when a dish is truly balanced. It’s a thoughtful continuation of Part One and a look at how curiosity keeps chefs and creators learning, experimenting, and pushing their work forward.

Links and resources 📌

Visit meez: https://www.getmeez.com

Follow meez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getmeez

Follow Josh on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshlsharkey/?hl=en

Follow Josh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-sharkey-406965b/

Follow Wylie on X: https://x.com/wyliedufresne

Follow Wylie on Instagram: @wyliedufresne

Timestamps:

(2:13) Lightning round 

(7:15) Why American cheese is so good

(11:37) Funny moments at wd~50

(18:00) Du’s Donuts flavor hits and misses

(19:16) Why pizza saved Wylie 

(24:35) How to identify talent

(26:37) When it’s time to stop iterating

(28:17) Is imitation really the greatest form of flattery

(31:00 ) What wd~50 was all about

(32:50) When to take a pause on ideation

(35:41) Innovating on equipment and ingredients

We’re revisiting one of the standout conversations from the meez Podcast archive. In this episode, Josh sits down with legendary chef Wylie Dufresne for a conversation on creativity, leadership, and the tension between making great art and building a sustainable business. It’s a conversation that remains just as relevant today, and one well worth bringing back for another listen.

Chef Wylie Dufresne joins host Josh Sharkey for a fireside chat at the Tarrytown Estates outside New York City for the annual meez team summit.

Chef Dufresne is a true pioneer and craftsman in the culinary world, having won James Beard Awards and Michelin stars, and his restaurant, wd~50, was voted one of the 50 best in the world.

In this interview, Chef Wylie discusses his struggles with balancing art and commerce. He reflects that he did not regret choosing art over commerce but wishes he had worked more thoughtfully at finding a better balance.

As the conversation continues, Chef Wylie touches on the importance of timing in business. He discusses how he created a new paradigm of cooking when he opened wd~50 and how he developed a culture of creativity there, emphasizing how creativity cannot be taught, but it can be planned for and hunted for.

Dufresne's goal for wd~50 was to create a place where anyone interested in learning about cooking could continue to do so. With this philosophy, Dufresne created a restaurant that not only pushed culinary boundaries but also fostered a culture of learning and curiosity.


Links and resources 📌

Visit meez: https://www.getmeez.com

Follow meez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getmeez

Follow Josh on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshlsharkey/?hl=en

Follow Josh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-sharkey-406965b/

Follow Wylie on X: https://x.com/wyliedufresne

Follow Wylie on Instagram: @wyliedufresne

Timestamps:

(02:06) Chef Wylie’s background

(12:12) The intersection between art and commerce

(15:14) The importance of timing in business

(23:29) The origins of innovation

(26:02) When to filter ideas and establish boundaries

(28:18) The iconic wd~50 eggs benedict 

(29:39) When to stop iterating

(39:29) Baker’s percent versus standard percent

(44:23) Learning when to not buck and system

(49:35) How to maintain high standards among your team

(55:06) Picking the right people

Revisiting Viral meez Episodes — we're bringing back one of the most-listened-to conversations in meez Podcast history. This episode originally aired October 31, 2023.

Have you ever wondered who is behind all of the new and exciting flavors at Shake Shack? Meet John Karangis, Executive Chef and VP of Culinary Innovation, leading R&D, menu development, and chef collaborations for the brand. 

John's culinary journey kicked off in the nineties at Union Square Cafe, winding through Paris and San Francisco, before settling back in New York City at Gramercy Tavern. A detour into the corporate kitchen of Goldman Sachs honed his skills in delivering top-notch restaurant-style food in unconventional settings. Prior to Shake Shack, John spent seven years at the helm of Danny Meyer's Union Square Events, fine-tuning his ability to execute high-quality food on a large scale.

In this episode, join CEO Josh Sharkey and John as they discuss the intricacies of R&D and innovation at Shake Shack. Discover the secrets behind producing restaurant-quality fare on a grand scale, and get a glimpse into John's passion for endurance training.

Links and resources 📌

Visit meez: https://www.getmeez.com

Follow meez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getmeez

Follow Josh on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshlsharkey/?hl=en

Follow Josh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-sharkey-406965b/

Follow John Karangis on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-karangis-470379a3/

Follow John on Instagram: @john_Karangis

Timestamps

02:11 John's culinary background

06:48 Endurance training

13:12 How endurance training relates to working as a chef

17:41 R&D for Shake Shack

25:07 R&D Customer feedback 

29:36 Shake Shake chef collaborations

33:50 When dishes don't make it past testing

42:36 Union Square Events and producing food at a large scale

46:31 How to create high quality food at a large scale

54:36 Working with Delta and seasoning food at high elevation

57:18)Advice on how to start on a fitness journey

#144

Josh and Mike sit down with Kenny Warner, VP of Data Science and Engineering at meez, for a conversation that starts with Kenny's unlikely path into tech leaving college after his sophomore year to launch a cause-marketing startup and winds up deep inside the machinery of modern AI. Kenny breaks down what actually happens when a language model reads your data, explaining tokens, embeddings, attention, and inference in plain terms, and why you can't simply point a chatbot at a hundred-million-row database and expect good answers.

He and Josh dig into the real difference between building a model and fine-tuning one, why clean and trusted data is the true competitive advantage, and how smaller, purpose-built models can beat the giants at specific jobs. They also get into where this is all heading for restaurants, from turning recipes, costs, and margins into something a system can reason about to the rise of MCP and agentic tooling, with a detour through Nobu, a Miami chef tour, and a few fun facts along the way. It's a rare, jargon-free look under the hood of AI from someone who builds it every day.

Links and resources 📌

Visit meez: https://www.getmeez.com

Follow meez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getmeez

Follow Josh on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshlsharkey/?hl=en

Follow Josh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-sharkey-406965b/

Follow Kenny Warner on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennywarner/

Visit Blanket: https://www.blanket.app/

Follow Michael on Instagram: @michaeljacober

Timestamps

08:04 Kenny's Path From College To Startup Founder

12:01 Raising Capital And Hitting Hard Times

15:01 Building A Model Versus Fine-Tuning One

16:11 What Tokens And Embeddings Really Are

18:45 How Attention Works In Language Models

26:01 Why Clean, Trusted Data Wins

29:05 The Case For Smaller, Purpose-Built Models

41:03 How AI Reads A Hundred Million Rows

43:21 MCP And The Rise Of Agentic Tools

50:01 What All This Means For Restaurants

#143

Josh sits down with Cameron Mitchell, founder and CEO of Cameron Mitchell Restaurants, to explore the leadership philosophy behind one of the country's most respected independent restaurant groups. Cameron shares the remarkable journey from high school dropout and dishwasher to building more than 100 restaurants, reflecting on the goals he set at 18 years old that ultimately shaped his entire career. Together they discuss why culture always outweighs strategy, the importance of promoting from within, and how creating opportunity not just jobs has helped his company retain leaders for decades. 

The conversation dives into Cameron's approach to goal setting, accountability, leadership retreats, and maintaining values through economic downturns, rapid growth, and even the sale of part of his business. He explains why restaurants succeed or fail based on people rather than concepts, why family and work must thrive together, and how his commitment to long-term relationships has become the foundation of both his business and his life. It's an insightful conversation about entrepreneurship, resilience, hospitality, and what it really takes to build a company that lasts.

Links and resources 📌

Visit meez: https://www.getmeez.com

Follow meez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getmeez

Follow Josh on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshlsharkey/?hl=en

Follow Josh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-sharkey-406965b/

Visit Cameron Mitchell Restaurants: https://cameronmitchell.com

Follow Cameron Mitchell Restaurants on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cmrcolumbus

Follow Cameron Mitchell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/camsaysyes

Learn more about Cameron Mitchell's book Yes Is the Answer. What Is the Question?: https://cameronmitchell.com/book/

Timestamps

03:54 Scaling From One To Ten Restaurants In The Nineties

07:01 From Dishwasher To Restaurateur

14:14 Opening The First Restaurant Against The Odds

18:59 Where The Drive Came From

29:19 Making The Hard Decisions Vision Demands

36:18 Fear Of Failure Versus Fortitude

42:02 Reputation, Trust, And Accountability

49:10 Retreats That Invigorate The Team

55:19 A Sous Chef, A Disney Trip, And Generosity

1:04:38 Selling The Company And Protecting The Culture