The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show

In this episode, Nick speaks with Damon Cart, an NLP teacher and coach, about the transformative power of self-concept coaching. Damon shares his personal journey through depression, the importance of understanding one’s values, and the pitfalls of self-worth.

What to listen for:

“It has everything to do with your beliefs… Most people don’t believe they are the value that they’re seeking.”

“If you’re adamant about being a happy and fulfilled person and you’re willing to work for it, you will get there.”

About Damon Cart

Damon is a world-leading expert in creating lasting internal transformations using the Self-Concept model™. As a master NLP practitioner and co-founder of The Self-Concept Research Group, he transformed his own life from a struggling insurance agent to a globally recognized authority in personal development. Mentored by NLP pioneer Steve Andreas, he has spent nearly eight years helping thousands achieve identity-level change. Based in Santa Cruz, California, Damon combines deep theory with practical application to make transformation effortless and permanent.

Resources:

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/podcasting-services/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:01.436)Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show we have Damon Cart. Damon, how you doing today?

Damon Cart (00:11.266)Good. How are you?

Nick McGowan (00:12.828)I’m good, man, I’m excited. As I told you, this is the first episode of Brand New Office. So if people watch the video and I’m looking around, it’s other stuff in the office. I’m excited that you’re here, man. We were just shooting the breeze a bit before we got started and I’m excited to get into things. So why don’t you kick us off? Tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.

Damon Cart (00:23.182)you

Damon Cart (00:35.694)Hmm. Well, I teach NLP and I coach it as well. I do one-on-one coaching and not just NLP. I focus on a specific model called the self concept model. And it was a model that was taught to me by my mentor, Steve Andreas. He created it. And it is a model that models our identity, how we create our sense of self and how to transform that. Most people are not living the life that they would want to be living. And that’s rooted in them not being the person they want to be.

And we think that we have to go conquer mountains or defeat dragons until we’re worthy of that. And that’s just not true. It has everything to do with your beliefs and how you organize that information into those beliefs and what in fact you believe about yourself. And most people don’t believe they are the value that they’re seeking. And as a result of that, they experience lower self-esteem, lower confidence and overall just lack of fulfillment.

And we can transform that and sometimes as simple as one hour session just by transforming beliefs, restructuring that information. So instead of taking years of willpower and discipline and all of those things, it’s really in how you think about it. And there’s an exact organization to that. And once you understand it, then you can change it. And something about me that is, I don’t know if I’m, I don’t know, I feel like I’m a pretty open book about things, about myself.

And I don’t know of anything that I would call bizarre. would say something that probably not a lot of people know about me, unless you really know me very well, is that I’m a rather emotional person. And that can be anything. That can be anger. That can be watching a movie and, you know, feeling emotional because of it, because it’s sad or it’s a great love story or something like that. I tend to be very emotional and be

The older I’ve gotten, the more comfortable I am with just being emotional and vulnerable in front of people. But I don’t really show that in my videos. In my persona online, it’s just not, I don’t think it’s really relevant. And it’s not that I’m ashamed of it. It’s just, I don’t see the value in doing that. I’m a teacher and it’s for me, it’s about getting the information out there.

Nick McGowan (02:51.884)Interesting. I want to go down that path a little bit because I am emotional. If you watched any videos, you can see some of the emotions come out. There are often times I’ll blame, I’m from Philly, so I’ll just blame the Northeast. I’m like, it’s because of Philly. Like, yeah, yeah. And that’s what everybody thinks about Philly people anyway. They’re crazy or they’re loud. It’s like partially, but some of that’s also generational trauma and they don’t really know how to handle it. And

Damon Cart (03:03.854)Why not?

Nick McGowan (03:16.787)It’s interesting because also as we get older like you can watch a commercial and you get over 40 and you start crying and you’re like I don’t know why like what the fuck was that what a good 12 second clip of something but it’s interesting that you put that to the side when you make your videos and it sounds really conscious like you’re like I’m not gonna allow myself to be not vulnerable but emotional because you don’t want it to block the message is that about right?

Damon Cart (03:43.691)You know, got a comment on one of my videos recently and that one of the live streams I did was very academic. And I was like, well, like as opposed to what, how do you, because they’re, and you’ll hear people throw this word around when it comes to NLP teachers. like, this person’s very academic. And to me, that means like more theory-based and not experiential, but NLP is very experiential. So I was just like, well, you know, how do,

Nick McGowan (04:03.638)Mm-hmm.

Damon Cart (04:09.358)As opposed to what I’m giving you the steps of a process that you have to go and do and experience and he was like no No, not like that. You should put your personality into your videos more and he referenced a podcast and I went and looked at the podcast and it was one of those kind like bro podcasts where It was a young man and he’s you know, kind of putting a little bit of arrogance out there No judgment on him. Like this is what plays this is what sells and So I haven’t responded to the person yet, but on my video, but basically it comes down to this I

I don’t see myself as the brand of what I’m doing. The information that I’m getting out there is the star of the show, not me. And there have been times where I put my personal life on there. I’ve done vlogs and things like that. And you will see me get emotional in those. But I’ve never found it to be like why people are coming to my videos. And if my personality overshadows what I’m teaching, which is you see this in like Tony Robbins, you know, and

Nick McGowan (04:46.008)Mm.

Nick McGowan (05:06.915)Yeah.

Damon Cart (05:06.926)Then I feel like I’m not doing my job. I feel like I’ve the message and what I’m teaching is the most important thing, not who I am. I don’t want my, if I get emotional about something, I don’t want that to hijack the video. I want the information I’m teaching to be the thing that people are coming for and that they’re getting it.

Nick McGowan (05:20.653)Yeah.

Nick McGowan (05:26.553)That makes total sense. And I guess to people that don’t know that, they’re just going to interpret how they’re going to interpret because we are people and we’ll interpret things how we want and make up a story and go, here’s what it is. But that’s a great way to put it. You’re stewarding it. You’re basical...

In this episode, Nick speaks with Vincent Wanga about the intersection of creativity, entrepreneurship, and leadership. Vince shares his unique journey through the creative industry, discussing the challenges and advantages of being an insomniac and how it has shaped his work ethic.

What to listen for:

“Everything that I do is passion and purpose-rooted. And that should be your first mission.”

“Creatives have a visionary mindset. So why can’t creatives be those same CEOs? We just lack the business acumen.”

About Vincent Wanga

Vince is a dynamic international design thought leader, creative keynote speaker, award-winning creative and executive, author of “The Art of Direction,” serial entrepreneur, and experienced brand consultant with an exceptional range of expertise over a distinguished two-decade career.

As former vice president and head of creative for one of the fastest-growing technology startups in North America, he oversaw corporate brand strategy and creative during unprecedented company growth from pre-Series A to an over $1 billion “unicorn” valuation.

Vince lives in Washington, DC, and Asheville, NC, with his dog, Okello. When he is not working on new business ventures, he passionately travels the world, collecting creative inspiration at the finest boutique hotels rewards points can buy.

Resources:

Check out other episodes about creativity and entrepreneurship:

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/contact/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:01.507)Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show we have Vince Wanga. Vince, how you doing today?

Vincent Wanga (00:11.372)I’m doing all right, Nick. I’m looking forward to our conversation and thanks for having me on.

Nick McGowan (00:15.618)Yeah, absolutely. I’m excited, man. I think this is gonna be fun. I know there’s a lot that you’ve been through, a lot that you’ve done. One of the biggest reasons why I wanted to have you on the show was to be able to talk about creativity and how it ties into us as people, but also into the systems that we’re in, like the capitalistic system, our family systems, all those things. I grew up as a creative in a…

not a typical creative house, so to say. So it felt a little weird, but that was the system that I was in. And then you get into jobs, you get into your career, and like, how do you do all that stuff? And that was one of the things that really stood out to me about having you on. So I’m gonna stop talking. Why don’t you kick us off? Tell us what you do for a living, and what’s one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre?

Vincent Wanga (01:00.142)Well, thank you. I am in a weird place in my career because I’m transitioning. I have been a creative at the highest levels and the lowest levels for 20 years. Started as an intern, worked my way up through the agency world, stints as a freelance independent operator working for clients all over the world to owning my own agency and having that unique experience as a business owner and operator.

and all the responsibilities that come with managing employees and being responsible for payroll and profit and loss and the other side of the industry, as well as becoming a senior executive and top 100, well, first 100 employees for a billion dollar tech startup and a crazy transformational journey. So I only preface that to say I’ve done it all in so many different industries. I’ve worked with so many different sectors, in-house, freelance.

agency, you name it in the creative sector, I’ve done it. And I think that offers me a lot of perspective and advice that I can offer to people, whether you’re creative or not, particularly in the aspects of leadership, which is something I really focus on at this point in my career. But as I mentioned, I’m in a major transition away from creative and more into my real core ethos, which is entrepreneurship and taking all that creative talent, marketing, business acumen into my own businesses and consulting and

other opportunities to really express my creativity in a different way. So it’s a really exciting paradigm for me. As far as something that’s really unique about me, I could wax philosophic on that. But I think the most unique thing is I am an insomniac. I get an inhuman amount of sleep and it has been a very difficult, like physical manifestation in my life because that’s not healthy, but it has been an incredible.

competitive advantage in my career, where I’m able to work day and night and create businesses on a weekend and maximize my time. But as I get older, the other side of the coin starts catching up and trying to figure out how to adjust as I move forward is a new paradigm I’m dealing with. But that’s one of many unique things about me.

Nick McGowan (03:16.459)Wow, I’m really glad that you consider that a unique thing.

that you see that as a… there’s kind of a silver lining that you look at that instead of some people saying like, well I just… I’m struggling with this thing. It sounds like even the personality that you have, like you’ll go, well I am kind of struggling but it is what it is and this is what it is. Then I could do something with it. And it’s funny how as you get older, things will shift and change just across the board. I mean we could have a whole fucking episode just about like the specific changes that happen from your knees and your back and the way you think about things.

or whatever you don’t mean

I wonder at times with the people that are insomniacs that it’s something that they actually kind of crave and it’s like a mental thing where like I want to keep going and I think about it from this perspective In the human design way I’m a generator and I have to use all of my energy every day So by the end of the day there are times where I’m like I’m totally done. It’s nine o’clock at night I guess I’ll go to sleep because I’m done for the day and like all the energy’s out other times It’s like three or four in the morning and it is what it is

But for the people that…

Nick McGowan (04:27.617)can hear that and say, well, you’re just trying to hustle and just trying to use all that to get ahead and do the grind and all that stuff. I’m reading between the lines and a little bit I know about you so far, that’s not the case with you. So it’s more of one of those like, I do these things because I’m led to do these things, but I also have a really hard time sleeping. So how do you manage that going through each day and saying like, all right, well, I got whatever amount of sleep and my body needs more, but I also have a lot of mental energy where it’s like you can

feel the physica...

In this episode, Nick speaks with Renee Zukin about her journey, the role of technology in creativity, and the challenges of adult friendships. They discuss the importance of embracing vulnerability, the tools for self-mastery, and the significance of celebrating small wins as well as finding small ways to be brave every day.

What to listen for:

“How can I show up for myself, my people in the microcosm of my world so that it becomes reflected and ripples out into the macrocosm?”

“One of the reasons why life can be so hard is because we’re so trained to ignore our innate signals.”

About Renee Zukin

Renee is an author, educator, coach, and mental health advocate doing the inner work to see outer change. She has more than 20 years of experience in education, writing, and entrepreneurship, and has studied multiple psychological and healing modalities that have sustained her and helped support her students and clients alike. She is passionate about cultivating a safe space for others to use the written word and organizational structures as tools for self-transformation and empowerment. Renee is also the author of the new book, Every Day, I’m Brave: Cultivating Resilience to Gain Freedom from Fear (Wonderwell Press, 2025).

Resources:

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/podcasting-services/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:01.464)Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host Nick McGowan. Today on the show we have Renee Zukin. Renee, how you doing today?

Renee Zukin (00:11.06)I’m doing fantastic, Nick, so excited to be here.

Nick McGowan (00:14.188)Yeah, I’m excited too. I think it’s going to be great. Why don’t you get us started. Tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.

Renee Zukin (00:22.478)Love this question. Well, I’m a writer. I’m an educator. Currently, I coach entrepreneurs in digital online marketing, which is a lot of fun. And one thing that most people don’t know about me, I actually recorded an album back in 2011.

Yes, yes. It was my first foray into songwriting and the band I had curated was called Collectible Boys. it started out as a poetry and essay writing project and it turned into an album. So, you you never know where the spirit’s going to take you.

Nick McGowan (01:08.408)Nice.

Nick McGowan (01:15.02)Yeah, literally. that’s cool. mean, as a musician, I’ve already told you, now I have loads of questions about what kind of music, where did you record, and how did you find the studio musicians, and what did you play, and what did you not play, and what is it all about, you know? So feel free to share any of that if you’d like.

Renee Zukin (01:21.518)Mm-hmm.

Renee Zukin (01:25.518)Yeah, yeah, it was a lot of fun. started out just really wanting to play music and I did need to get musicians to actually help me curate the music underneath because for me, I was writing lyrics and I had melodies and you know, I only have a few years of piano lessons as a kid under my belt. So I knew I needed the

the heavy hitters to come in and help create it underneath. And I did, I collected some amazing local musicians who’ve played in multiple bands and knew what they were doing. And we played out for a couple of years and I was like, we need to record this. And we did it in one weekend. So it was definitely a whirlwind and a lot of fun.

Nick McGowan (02:12.584)Thanks

Nick McGowan (02:19.576)And I love that sort of stuff. And especially like people listen to albums or they’ll listen to a new song that comes out. You might think like, this is great. And these people just keep putting these things out like any bands that put out new albums. It’s like, but we have no idea the amount of time and effort and energy that every single one of them put into figuring out what do we do? How do we do it? And I think oftentimes people forget about the sometimes the fifth or sixth member of the band.

producer and the one who’s actually recording everything. And I said this to you before we started even recording this, that sometimes the answers that will come out of that initial question will kind of alter the way that the conversations go. And I think this may be one of those situations. Like as a musician, I’ve been having conversations with people recently that have been using AI and

Renee Zukin (02:49.646)Right? Yeah.

Renee Zukin (03:03.516)Yeah.

Renee Zukin (03:11.266)Mmm.

Nick McGowan (03:13.309)if you, somebody who has a few years of piano lessons from X amount of years ago, and you have ideas and some melodies and you go, well, I want the drums to sound like, whatever, like you just make noises. Like you can’t really do that. guess, well, Timbaland made a whole career out of making noises and putting in the records, but that’s one person.

Renee Zukin (03:26.168)Right.

Renee Zukin (03:30.478)Yeah

Nick McGowan (03:36.329)I think it’s interesting how there’s technology that helps us with things but can also really hinder us. I have a good friend of mine who writes music constantly, plays acoustic, sings, and he can mess around on some other instruments, but his main thing is like first second position of acoustic, singer-songwriter type stuff, and using AI at times to help with a backing band. Like I can understand going that direction because the resource is there, but I

Renee Zukin (03:41.784)Mm-hmm.

Renee Zukin (04:05.666)Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (04:06.184)I that also can hurt us from being creative and stretching those muscles and being more brave in the confusing things. Like you sit down on the piano and go, I’m fucking fine, middle C, K, triad, you know, like instead of going, well, here, this is the thing I want. And as somebody who, like you didn’t have AI in 2011.

Renee Zukin (04:11.317)and

Renee Zukin (04:17.704)Yeah.

Renee Zukin (04:29.55)No I didn’t.

Nick McGowan (04:31.424)you had to find people to actually be musicians with you, work through that stuff, what are your thoughts, what are your feelings with that sort of stuff?

Renee Zukin (04:35.458)Mm-hmm.

This is great. I because I think it’s similar to also to writing in general. Obviously we can use. Yeah. And I think what you’re speaking to is this opportunity for our own creativity to allow us to learn and grow like when we get stuck. Okay. So I, you know, my skills and here I want to play around, but also the

Nick McGowan (04:45.94)Yeah, big time.

Renee Zukin (05:05.996)opportunity to connect with other people who do have those skills and have the conversations and get to really play and modify and modulate music and the piece in different ways. And I think actually you could even say this with all kinds of art. Like I am not like, I’m a firm believer that AI and its ability to help us create can

save us a lot of time, save us a lot of energy. There’s ways in which it’s a great tool to have and there’s ways in which we can teach it how to be a better AI partner. So I’m...

In this episode, Nick speaks with Tashun Bowden Lewis, a former public defender and current CEO of Bowden-Lewis Consulting Group. Tashun shares her journey from being a high school athlete to becoming the first black chief public defender in Connecticut and her transition into becoming a leadership and executive coach.

What to listen for:

“If you are willing to listen to me and not just judge me based on what I look like or what you perceive my income to be, then we can move some mountains here.”

“People deserve dignity and to be treated with respect no matter what has gone on or where they come from.”

About TaShun Bowden-Lewis

TaShun is a criminal defense expert, esteemed speaker, coach, catalyst for change, and the CEO & Founder of The Bowden-Lewis Consulting Group, LLC. With almost 30 years dedicated to working in public defense, culminating in her historic 2022 appointment as the first Black Chief Public Defender for the State of Connecticut, she is an experienced transformative leader with the business acumen and community-focused mindset to deliver results through discipline, integrity, and perseverance.

Resources:

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/podcasting-services/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:02.126)Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery show. I’m your host Nick McGowan. Today on the show we have Tashun Bowden Lewis. Tashun, how you doing today?

TaShun Bowden-Lewis (00:14.102)How are you, Nick?

Nick McGowan (00:15.768)good. I’m excited for you to be here. I’m just going to get the cat out of the bag for you. This is your first podcast episode and I know you’re going to do great and we’ve already talked. We’ve been working together for a little while now and I’m really, really excited to get into your background because even doing the initial work with you, I’ve researched your background. We and you and I have had conversations and there’s a lot of stuff that we’re to be able to get into that. Truthfully, I think some people would have a really hard time wrapping their head around and trying to move on from, from there.

So why don’t you get us started? Tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.

TaShun Bowden-Lewis (00:53.356)Okay, so again, I’m Tishun Bowden-Lewis and I am currently the CEO and founder of the Bowden-Lewis Consulting Group. And so I do consulting, criminal defense consulting, as well as leadership development, work stop facilitation. I also am a coach. I’m a certified personal and executive coach as well too.

And that’s what I do these days. That’s where I am. And I’m so grateful that it is thriving. Actually, this month, October, will be a year that I’ve been a business owner. And I’m so proud of myself. yes.

Nick McGowan (01:29.131)as you should be. Now what’s that one thing most people don’t know about you that’s a little odd or bizarre?

TaShun Bowden-Lewis (01:33.837)Okay, well back in the day though I’m not that old right now but back in the day when I was in high school I played basketball among other sports and And so the coach had an actual play named after me it was called money. So whenever he held the money shot money

That made the ball goes to Tishun and cause I always got it in. was that, that something that people, most people don’t know about me. Let’s say he to high school with me. About me that yeah, that money, money shot. That was Tishun. That was me.

Nick McGowan (02:07.501)That’s awesome. Yeah, most people don’t get a shot named after them or a play specifically for them. Unless, like, obviously my brain goes to Kobe. Like, the amount of people that are around our ages that would try to throw something out in the trash and yell Kobe. I still do it at times.

TaShun Bowden-Lewis (02:13.077)Yeah.

TaShun Bowden-Lewis (02:19.244)Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. For sure. For sure. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (02:27.435)That’s pretty cool. you were in sports when you were in high school. I’m sure you were in sports before that and all. I was actually having a conversation with somebody yesterday where we talking about sports and like there are the four major sports here in the States and then there are fringe sports and other stuff.

And in the conversation, the guy was saying he did whatever throughout high school. He was like field track or whatever and asked me, what did you play in high school? And I’d really thought about it in a while, but I stopped playing in high school because I didn’t want to deal with the politics. Like I probably could have gotten into college playing baseball, but I didn’t do it in high school because I didn’t want to deal with the politics and all. But you, you went through all that. You had a shot named after you. So well done on that one. And then you actually got into politics.

TaShun Bowden-Lewis (02:51.488)Mm-hmm.

TaShun Bowden-Lewis (02:59.34)Ugh.

TaShun Bowden-Lewis (03:08.212)Yeah.

Thank you, thank you.

Nick McGowan (03:14.399)So why don’t you take us there? Like what was the transition from being a high school athlete into where you were most recently and then obviously into where you’re at with your company?

TaShun Bowden-Lewis (03:19.456)Mm-hmm.

You

TaShun Bowden-Lewis (03:28.136)Sure. So I always wanted to be a public defender. So when I was seven, I don’t know if you remember there was a show on called Good Times back in the day and the baby son, Michael, talked about being an attorney, want to be an attorney. And so I talked to my mom about that. like, you know, what is an attorney really? And at seven, and then we talked about different kinds of attorneys and public defender, a person who assists those for criminal defense,

Nick McGowan (03:39.094)Yeah.

TaShun Bowden-Lewis (03:58.003)matters who are not able to afford to hire a private attorney. And I knew then at seven years old, that’s what I wanted to do. So that was my path. And I was focused on that. And I was very blessed to be able to achieve that. So I started out in the late 90s as a per diem. I don’t even know how much it was a day. In the public defender’s office, I am in Connecticut.

I moved up throughout the ranks. I was a public defender for almost 30 years. And so from a podium all the way up to in 2022, I became the first black chief public defender for the state of Connecticut. And of course, that’s the pinnacle of my career. And so I was over the entire state, about 40 some odd offices, over 400 in…

30, 35 employees, includes attorneys, social workers, investigators, of course, support staff, clerical staff. And so it was, yeah, the pinnacle of my career. It was an amazing situation. And so that’s how I really got into the whole political situation because of the position I was in. And, you know, it’s eye-opening to be able to go in front of

you know, the state at the Capitol and talk about criminal justice reform or talk about trying to get more funds or just whatever it may be to assist the citizens, the communities, the people that we service. And so it was a pleasure. It was different for me, writing legislation, talking with all the different legislators out there and doing it, you know. It was…

Trial by fire, because I had never done it before...

In this episode, Nick speaks with Wei Houng about the importance of human connection, self-discovery, and the innovative technology behind human optimization. Wei shares his journey from a technical background to exploring the spiritual and esoteric realms, leading to the development of a patented assessment technology that helps individuals understand their unique nature.

What to listen for:

“For a human being to perpetually live in survival mode is perpetually living a life through judgment and subjectivity.”

“Most of us haven’t been given the opportunity to graduate from that subjective foundational understanding of self to define who we are.”

About Wei Houng

Wei is one of the co-founders of HumanOp Technologies, a company dedicated to disrupting the matrix that forces sameness and rewards burnout. After seeing countless high-performers operating out of rhythm with who they truly are, he’s part of the team that is using the world’s first physics-based technology to reveal a person’s authentic nature. His mission is to help people stop ‘efforting’ their way through life and start flowing with it, so they can be filled with the energy, joy, and purpose they were designed for.

Resources:

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/podcasting-services/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:01.358)Hello and welcome to the Mindset Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show we have Wei Houng. Wei, how you doing today?

Wei Houng (00:12.321)really good especially after our pre-show warm-up.

Nick McGowan (00:16.712)Absolutely. And there, I say this, I don’t know, every so often on episodes and people will hear it, but you guys don’t hear the stuff that happens before we hit record or anything. But legitimately, there are beautiful conversations that I’ve had where I go, we need to hit record, like all of this needs to be on here. And this was one of those like we’ve literally been talking for like 40 minutes at this point.

Wei Houng (00:33.345)Why? Yeah. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (00:40.992)So there’s a lot of stuff that we’re gonna be able to cover and a lot of stuff we’re gonna get into. And one of the biggest reasons why I wanted to have you on is to be able to talk about the human connection within ourselves and how we relate to ourselves, how we figure out ourselves and how that ties into our purpose. We’re gonna get into technology and all the other things that are in there, but why don’t you kick us off? Why don’t you tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre?

Wei Houng (01:05.985)Yeah, great question. I you know, I’ve been in this human optimization game we were just talking about now. I’m, you know, I used to say the same number year after year until somebody called me out on it and said, you’ve been saying that number for the last five years I’ve known you as like, do you never increase that number? I was like, Oh, you’re right. And so I last when I checked last, I’ve been I’ve been at this human optimization game now for what 30, I think, over 31 years now.

Nick McGowan (01:23.952)Wei Houng (01:33.929)And a lot of it was driven by what I dealt with, you know, as a kid in junior high feeling like a lot of kids, I think I was being bullied. didn’t feel like I fit in. And so they got to a point where I thought there was something wrong with me. Right. The name I’m one of the co-founders of our company called human op technologies. Human op is short for human optimization. And we have a patented human assessment technology that is only patented because it’s not based on psychology. Right. It’s it’s based on

physics and math and science and that’s how we were able to kind of get away with patenting. Well, not get away with, we did do it, patenting assessment technology. But before we get into that, there’s one thing that really kind of helped facilitate this that a lot of people, well, some people know, but a lot of people don’t know is that I spent a lot of years in the spiritual community to kind of truly explore.

the esoteric side because I spent my background in computer science engineering. So I had a lifetime of just being on the technical left brain side of things, science and grounded methodologies and all this jazz. And so when I was trying to see all that was, all that is available in this world, I got deep into the, what people will say, the woo community, right? And there was one point where I,

Nick McGowan (02:50.552)Mm-hmm.

Wei Houng (02:55.553)you know, and there’s nothing wrong with these teachers because they have a lot more faith and trust than I do. But it’s not like I didn’t, I was skeptical about things. I just have that kind of mind. I want to understand it. So in the case one day, if I want to teach this to somebody, I can have the confidence to understand the both the left, the right brain, every possible facet of how to help people embrace what I’m talking about. Right. And when it came to energy work and energy healing and hypnotherapy and all those different things, I would

get to a point with every teacher and I’ve had many where I was asked so many questions about why does this work? How does this work? Why does this work? Until finally the last stage I said she was frustrated like my parents were and said, wait, it just is. Okay. It just is. And I say, then it just took me back to my traumas as a youth. It’s like telling me to shut up. It just is. Okay. Why? Why? It just is. Okay. Fine. So at this point,

Nick McGowan (03:44.024)Yeah.

Wei Houng (03:51.371)done with college and everything. I have my UCLA alumni card. said, you know what, I’m going to go figure this out myself. And so I finally, I never knew how to use alumni card until then. was like, you mean I can go back to the UCLA engineering library and just hang out there. And it’s like, well, yeah, you’re alumni. was like, great. So I go in there and

I think if you add up all the hours I was going back and forth, just looking into reopening the books on quantum physics, thermodynamics, the meaning of the universe instead for a school project, it was for my own personal understanding of why something that is so seemingly anti-science is really isn’t anti-science. It’s just another language to explain what science is also trying to explain, right? If you add up all the hours, I think it was like almost like a week. It’s like I was there for like a straight week. If I went there 24 hours for a whole

Nick McGowan (04:41.624)Nice.

Wei Houng (04:43.969)what seven times 24, whatever that is, right? What does that does 168 hours or something like that. So and what I came out with was a deeper understanding, just simply on how to explain things like pranic prana, how does how does how does the directing of the energy work? And how does energy behave? You know, what happens when a human being dies? You know, what does

What are we talking about when we say like, you know, a soul or whatever the case may be, you know, it’s not like I don’t believe in it. I just like to have multiple ways of explaining it to help serve a larger segment of humanity. And that’s really what drives me to do is not to debunk anything, but to help more people understand the miracle of what happens every single day.

and not deny us just because it’s not part of our reality, deny us the potential of being able to embrace and accept more that can potentially augm...

In this episode, Nick speaks with Eric Malka about his journey as an entrepreneur, discussing the importance of mindset, resilience, and personal growth. He emphasizes that success does not equate to happiness and that true fulfillment comes from within. Eric provides insights on how to navigate the challenges of entrepreneurship, the significance of long-term vision, and the necessity of maintaining wellness throughout the journey.

What to listen for:

“To be successful as an entrepreneur you have to be healthy physically, emotionally, and spiritually.”

“Everybody’s different and we all have our superpowers. It’s about identifying that innate gift you have and really honing in on it and leveraging that.”

About Eric Malka

Eric is an entrepreneur, brand builder, investor, and published author with more than 30 years’ experience in Luxury Consumer Goods. As co-founder and former CEO of The Art of Shaving, he is a pioneer of the luxury men’s grooming industry, leading the company from startup to international expansion.

In 2009, The Art of Shaving was acquired by Gillette/Procter & Gamble – Eric was tapped by P&G to continue in his role as CEO through the end of 2010. In 2014, he established Strategic Brand Investments; a private equity fund specialized in helping early-stage entrepreneurs develop iconic brands and grow businesses.

Resources:

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today! https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/podcasting-services/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:15.66)Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host Nick McGowan. Today on the show we have Eric Malka. Eric, how you doing today?

Eric Malka (00:39.679)Good man, thanks for having me. Doing great.

Nick McGowan (00:41.71)Absolutely, I’m excited for you here. I think we’re gonna have a great conversation. We’re already shooting the shit and having a good time with it, so it’ll be fun. So why don’t we get this kicked off? Why don’t you tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre?

Eric Malka (00:56.341)Auto bizarre. So what do I do now is I’m an investor. I invest in early stage companies in the men’s grooming and beauty category. I help founders achieve what I was lucky enough to achieve in my own career by building my company called the Art of Shaving, which I sold in 2009. So helping founders try to do the same thing.

against the lots by the way.

And something weird about me? Yeah, I was thinking about that. What’s weird about me? That’s a tough one, I’m kind of, you know, I’m not going to say I’m normal because nobody is normal, but I’ve lived, you know, I’ve lived in many different countries. I was born in North Africa, grew up in Canada.

Nick McGowan (01:43.539)Hahaha

Eric Malka (01:57.011)lived in New York City, Miami, I’ve lived in Puerto Rico, I speak three languages, you know, I’ve been around.

Nick McGowan (02:06.391)Some of that’s a bit abnormal, like not normal for people that just stay in a town or something. So I’m glad that you bring that up. That’s something I talk to people about, like even right now, we’re recording this and I’m in Montana. I currently live in New Mexico and my partner and I travel throughout the summers and all that. People listen, know about that stuff, but those that stay in their town and that are just kind of townies get stuck there and they just only see the things that they see.

Eric Malka (02:31.028)Yep.

Nick McGowan (02:34.259)And it’s not like the 1800s anymore where like you’re just in a town and you’re stuck there and you can’t really get out. Where now it’s easier to get out, but I find that some people have a hard time just making that initial step to just move along. Like you told me that you got on a bus, ended up in New York, then also had a knife at your throat a number of months later. So like that’s a fucking story right there, you know?

Eric Malka (02:39.476)Yeah.

Eric Malka (02:49.182)Yeah.

Yeah. That’s right. You know, I have friends that still live where we grew up, right? And their kids are going to the same school. And I don’t look down on that. I think there’s some beauty to it. It’s just different strokes for different folks, right? I ran from that notion.

I escape that reality, but for other people, that’s a beautiful thing where there’s roots, there’s family, there’s consistency. know, nothing wrong with that. It’s just not my vibe.

Nick McGowan (03:29.974)Yeah, I think about how some people get stuck in the system of a thing. You know, I grew up here, I went to school here, my family’s here, all the systems are here that I’m used to. And sometimes it is totally a, this makes total sense and this is where I’m supposed to be. And that’s a beautiful thing. There are people I see from high school that are like that, but not everyone. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Malka (03:41.705)Yeah.

Eric Malka (03:46.505)That’s right. That’s right. mean, yeah, if that’s what you want, and that’s what you get, that’s fine. But if you want something else, but you don’t have the courage, because your mindset tells you that it’s never going to happen, then I agree, that’s a problem.

Nick McGowan (04:00.16)Yeah. Man, think about it. If you never sat your ass on the Greyhound bus, what else wouldn’t have happened? You know what I mean?

Eric Malka (04:11.046)Yeah, I mean, you know, they say the first step is 90%. Right. So, listen, I didn’t have courage. had, desperation. So, you know, I was desperate to get out of there, man, between the brutal weather and my family dynamics and my community. And, you know, I quit school, my parents.

Nick McGowan (04:14.763)You

Nick McGowan (04:23.34)Hmm.

Eric Malka (04:37.06)My dad lost his job. My parents got divorced. My girlfriend broke up with me. I just wanted to get the hell out of that place. you know, that desperation is maybe stronger than having big balls, but you do need, you also need some courage to actually go through with the thought of desperation, right?

Nick McGowan (04:46.016)Yeah.

Nick McGowan (04:52.074)Hahaha

Nick McGowan (04:56.522)Yeah.

yeah, it’s interesting how there’s a catalyst to everything, you know, like the desperation was for you. I’ve had somebody on recently who talks specifically about courage and how a courageous moment changed everything for them. But it really takes us actually looking at that moment and not thinking like, well, well, that was a cool thing moving along in life, but actually expanding on it or breaking it apart a bit. you’ve gone from traveling around moving and all of that, but you also have had different companies. You help people with companies now and

Eric Malka (05:21.694)Yeah.

Nick McGowan (05:29.077)Truthfully, the reason why I wanted to have you on the show is because I know that the stories that I talk to different people about, you know, just having casual conversation when you actually get into deeper conversation with them, I like look for a two, three year period, all I wanted was death or like, I had no idea what was going on and I just tried to keep myself going and I thank God that I had therapy or whatever.

Eric Malka (05:53.065)Yep.

Nick McGowan (05:53.799)So I like to be able to find out what did that look like? Cause it’s not a ...

In this episode, Nick speaks with speaks Christina Russell, founder of the RusMix brand, about her journey through personal and religious trauma, the importance of self-awareness, and the healing process. Christina shares her experiences with a past relationship that led to significant emotional turmoil and how it intertwined with her upbringing and faith.

What to listen for:

“I laid on the ground for days… but when I was open to receive it, the right help came at the right time.”

“Name your negative thoughts. Tell them, ‘You’re not needed right now.'”

About Christina Russell

Christina is a mindset and self-worth coach, founder of RusMix, and host of the podcast Breaking Curses with Excellence. She helps people break generational cycles, stop self-sabotaging, and step into their power through healing-centered coaching and faith-based mindset work. Her mission is to help people reclaim their worth and grow into the healthiest, most confident version of themselves—inside and out.

Resources:

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today!

https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/podcasting-services/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:00.11)All right, three, two, hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show we have Christina Russell. Christina, how you doing today?

Christina Russell (00:11.423)I’m doing amazing, how about you?

Nick McGowan (00:13.399)Good, good, I’m excited to have a conversation. I you’ve talked to my partner and you guys have become friends at this point. And I think you would sign up for the podcast, connect it with her. And you guys have connected a number of times since then and now you’re on the show. So I’m excited with this conversation. I think it’s gonna be great. Why don’t you kick us off? Tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.

Christina Russell (00:16.561)Yes, yes, absolutely.

Christina Russell (00:26.817)Yes.

Christina Russell (00:38.859)So, Christina, the founder of the Rust Mix brand, focused on empowering, healing, growth, motivation, anything positive. A little sass and fun in there as well. But I have a variety of things, right? So I’m multi-passionate when it comes to my brand. I have a podcast as well, books, et cetera, just to encourage people on their journey, either to start or continue going.

So something odd or bizarre about me, I once fell for…

Nick McGowan (01:08.558)Yeah.

Christina Russell (01:18.741)A very good scam, but a Nigerian scam. And I was engaged to be married.

Nick McGowan (01:27.725)to that prince that emailed you or to somebody else?

Christina Russell (01:28.545)It wasn’t a prince he didn’t come off as a prince, but he definitely had his game up his sleeve Yeah, yeah, so that that that ended not so great obviously With him mirroring somebody there, right? Well, okay so it ended with finding out that he obviously had someone there and They were got married five months after we were supposed

Nick McGowan (01:41.677)We can’t just leave it at that.

Christina Russell (01:56.831)Yeah, five months after we were supposed to get married. I found out about everything that was happening two months before our wedding date. Dresses were already paid for. I already had mine. My bridesmaid had theirs. My guys, I made it simple for them, you know, because he was supposed to come here. I had already been there multiple times, brought my mom, right, stayed with his mom. But yeah, so.

I found out through a friend who was from there as well, that something doesn’t seem right. Because I was telling him, he called me out of the blue, him and his wife had come visit, I tried to be very welcoming to them. This was all through church. And so he was like, this just doesn’t seem right. This would be the happiest time of your lives and it’s not going well. Let me talk to him.

Nick McGowan (02:31.468)Hmm.

Nick McGowan (02:43.948)Uh-huh.

Christina Russell (02:54.047)And so he literally had the screenshots of him saying horrible things about me, the picture of the one that he married, like just all of it. So that was my odd and bizarre thing.

Nick McGowan (03:05.727)Wow.

Ahem.

Well, that certainly answers that question then. And that sucks. I think there are different scams that people can fall for. I make the joke of like, what was the prince’s name? Because that’s kind of the old version of like, I’m this, yeah, I’m this prince. I have all this money. And for some dumb reason, I think you should get like billions of dollars. Send me some money and then I’ll send you even more.

Christina Russell (03:15.073)I’m out.

there.

Christina Russell (03:25.459)Usually it is a print, right?

Christina Russell (03:33.344)So it would.

It wasn’t even he didn’t he didn’t present like that. He just presented like a regular guy but And we were part of the same religion, right? Which which is supposed to present Trust and loyalty and you know a confidence that you can have versus anybody else, right? So that’s what kind of drew me in and It actually ties to some of my own trauma

as to why I even fell for it in the first place.

Nick McGowan (04:07.627)Wow. My brain is actively trying to figure out which direction do we go with this because not only that trauma that’s there, but how did that tie into the religious system that you’re a part of? Because once you’re bought into something like that, there’s an assumed trust.

Christina Russell (04:13.099)Okay.

Christina Russell (04:24.757)Yes. Yes.

Nick McGowan (04:25.772)But there’s also biases that people have. Like I was part of churches for, I don’t know, a bit over a decade and played the lead guitar in bands for a decade at churches. And there were still times where like, I would see what people would say and then I would see what they would do. And then I would hear about the things that maybe they did with somebody else’s wife or whatever else. And it’s like…

Christina Russell (04:42.239)Yes.

Nick McGowan (04:48.075)We’re all talking a good game, we’re all just fucking humans. instead of talking the game, why not just be real about this stuff instead of just… But there are things that go into that. So even tying in, like your trauma will compact and compound because then you go, all right, well this squished it down, but then this added to it made it even larger. And then the trust or whatever it is starts to just really deteriorate to the point where you can say, I don’t want to do any of it. So…

Christina Russell (04:48.256)Yes.

Christina Russell (04:55.381)Yes.

Christina Russell (05:01.025)There it is.

Christina Russell (05:09.568)Yes.

Nick McGowan (05:16.852)I’m sure there was a big ball of all of those things. Where do ...

In this episode, Nick speaks with TJ Woodward to explore conscious recovery, healing from trauma, and the importance of self-awareness in personal growth. TJ shares his journey from childhood experiences to addiction and recovery, emphasizing the significance of understanding core beliefs and the role of curiosity in healing.

What to listen for:

“Can I be in that in the midst of it? I wanna honor the pain. I wanna honor the experience. I’m not gonna bypass and pretend like it’s not happening. But in the midst of that, it’s like, I’m wondering what wants to emerge. What else is possible for me?”

“We can kind of change the past because the past is the narrative in our head and it’s the energy associated with it.”

About TJ Woodward

TJ is a Revolutionary Recovery Expert, Inspirational Speaker, Educator, Addictions Treatment Specialist, host of The Element Q Podcast, and Best-Selling Author.

TJ Woodward is the Head of Conscious Leadership at Reconstruction Unlimited, the Chief Wellness Officer at Monima Behavioral Health, and is a featured thought leader on WholeHearted.org along with Brené Brown, Marianne Williamson, Dr. Gabor Maté, and Mark Lundholm.

Resources:

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Send Nick an email or schedule a time to discuss your podcast today! https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/contact/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:01.051)Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan McGowan. Today on the show we have TJ Woodward. TJ, how are you doing today?

TJ Woodward (00:11.266)Doing well, Nick. I’m so looking forward to this conversation.

Nick McGowan (00:14.331)Likewise, I’m excited to get into all the things we’re going to talk about. So why don’t you just get us started? Tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.

TJ Woodward (00:24.07)my gosh, or bizarre, I’ll have to think about that for a moment. So I do a lot of different things. an author have written three books with a bunch of accompanying workbooks. I have the honor of really, I would say a spiritual teacher, but also work a lot in behavioral health. I’ve created a modality of treatment called conscious recovery that helps people get down to the root causes of their addiction instead of just treating symptoms. And also,

not looking at themselves as broken. So if there’s any through line with all of my work, it’s that we actually come into the world as whole and complete beings and that life is about returning to that, not about attaining something. So whether it’s my book, Conscious Being, Conscious Recovery, Conscious Creation, that’s the through line. It’s really, there is this place within us that’s unharmable and unharmed. So that’s kind of that. And I love to speak, I do podcasts, do a lot of different things, facilitate trainings, but…

Nick McGowan (01:02.682)Hmm.

TJ Woodward (01:18.97)My greatest passion is helping people do the deeper healing so they can remember who they really are. That’s the bottom line. I don’t know this is a bizarre thing, but very rarely do I talk about it. But when I was young, young, like from seven to 17, I sang in a very traditional men and boys choir and went and sang in England for the Archbishop of Canterbury and like sang at Westminster Abbey in St. Paul’s. So like I had that experience of

Nick McGowan (01:27.994)you

TJ Woodward (01:47.01)being in this choir that was this very traditional, was very outside of like life in my family. There’s a lot of layers there, but that’s something I rarely tell anyone.

Nick McGowan (01:53.656)Huh.

Nick McGowan (01:56.984)That’s interesting. It’s always interesting to me to find out how people got into a thing, but also to find out things like that was probably 10 different versions of you ago. You know, like so many different things that just people don’t think about or just, yeah, by the way, I forgot this whole thing happened. But how did you get into that if that was different than your family? Because my brain instantly went to, was that part of your family? Were you guys just going to church constantly or what have you?

TJ Woodward (02:23.832)Well, it’s interesting. My dad did sing in that choir as well. But the reason I say it was different than my family is it was kind of like this really a beautiful experience, honestly. Like a lot of people that I who I know have like some trauma around church or maybe they didn’t resonate with it. But for me, like that was the happiest place I was. Like the vibe there was so great and singing really helped me come alive and home life wasn’t quite like that. You know, there was a lot going on. So if anything.

Nick McGowan (02:39.449)Yeah.

Hmm.

TJ Woodward (02:50.654)strangely enough, that experience was sort of like my escape from the difficulties at home. And that was the beginning of a long pattern of escaping from things.

Nick McGowan (02:59.883)man, yeah. It’s interesting because I’ve played in church bands. I played probably the better part of a decade playing lead guitar for different bands. And I used say to people like the reason why I was still staying at church was not because of like the surface level messaging but

TJ Woodward (03:06.992)wow.

Nick McGowan (03:18.457)because of the music and then I would feel God through that music and different things that open up and it’s interesting how that stuff can pull you in but how there’s also the different variations that people feel, the things that you get from it, the systems that you just envelop into. So how did that shape you to where you’re at and what you’re doing now?

TJ Woodward (03:36.994)You know, it’s fascinating because I reflect on that often because here I am doing spiritual work, but it’s really not connected with religion. But I think it ties back to that because kind of like you, like I don’t remember what the message was at that church really, but I do remember the feeling that I had, especially through the music, right? And again, this is very traditional music, like, you know, British music from the 16th century kind of music. So it wasn’t exactly like a lot of contemporary music.

Nick McGowan (03:44.121)Mm-hmm.

TJ Woodward (04:05.08)But I think that was where I first had a passion for music and also realizing that spirituality wasn’t really in the mind, it was in the body. It was an experience. And some of my most profound experiences in my early life were connecting through the music and the idea of God or the idea of spirit somehow. That’s where I discovered it. So I think it really was in many ways the roots for me of what has made my life have more meaning.

Nick McGowan (04:08.473)Hmm.

Nick McGowan (04:32.033)Yeah, well the work that you’re doing is incredible and I could tell even reading through some of this stuff, seeing some of the clips.

You had a PR company that reached out to me. So it’s not li...