Today, Jay and Lee face off in the toughest debate they’ve ever had on the pod: gates in or gates out on a harness. Hear each of their takes, why they are certain that the other is wrong, and learn where many of today’s best climbers land in this contentious debate. 

Plus - drinking unfiltered water, the unexpectedly ephemeral nature of rock and what it means for grades, and the best routes for young kids. 

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Do you have a listener question or a topic idea? Let us know at @firstascentpod on Instagram! Jay and Lee can be found at @jayknower and @xxleeweexx 

Disclaimer: 

The information expressed in this episode is for entertainment purposes only, and is not intended as, nor should it be interpreted as, informational or instructional.