The Next Level

Trump’s obsession with tearing up the East Wing turns into a fight over symbolism, willpower, and what it really takes to undo his damage. JVL and Sarah Longwell go back and forth over what matters, what’s just noise, and why elites still won’t stand up to him. Plus: Trump’s love for dictators, Reagan on tariffs, and Canada making him mad again.

JVL, Sarah, and Tim discuss the drama over Democrat Graham Platner’s “Nazi tattoo,” the Maine Senate race, and the left’s weird obsession with finding their own Trump-style outsider. Plus: Trump’s corrupt White House ballroom, the “No Kings” protests, and just how far America’s slipped into banana-republic territory.

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JVL ambushes Sarah with The Darkness. It’s a fun-filled episode with the indictment of John Bolton, the decimation of the Pentagon press corps, another extra-legal killing off the coast of Venezuela, the resignation of the head of SouthCom, and the weaponization of the IRS.

Good times.

This week on The Next Level Jonathan V. Last, Sarah Longwell, and Tim Miller discuss the GOP’s accelerating moral collapse. MAGA wants to discredit No Kings protests as “Hate America” rallies, and a racist Young Republicans group chat leak shows how deep the rot goes. They explore how Kristi Noem’s taxpayer-funded ad blitz crosses every ethical line and what it says about ICE’s power in the administration. Plus, they debate whether establishment Democrats are sabotaging the party’s Senate chances by pushing candidates they feel are safer bets. 

Live from New York, Sarah Longwell, JVL and Tim Miller tear into America’s culture of cowardice—from billionaires hiding in Hawaii to Merrick Garland’s endless hesitation. They discuss into how Trump’s intimidation works, why “lawfare” backfired, and why too many Democrats STILL seem afraid to fight.

Note: This was recorded on Saturday, October 11, 2025.

This week Sarah and JVL did something they haven’t done for a couple of years: they just . . . hung out and asked each other questions. Some stuff about life. Some stuff about The Bulwark. Some stuff about the world.

Hope you enjoy listening as much as they enjoyed visiting with each other.

The crew is back together, live in D.C. and fired up. From wild personal stories to real talk about how we face this moment as a country, this episode is all about connection, community, and not giving in to the chaos. When things get dark, we stick together.

JVL and Sarah Longwell zero in on the government shutdown chaos and what it really means. They debate why Democrats can’t afford to play defense, how Trump is openly embracing authoritarian ideas like Project 2025, and the GOP’s sheer inability to govern even as they drive the country toward crisis. 

Pete Hegseth calls in the nation’s top generals and admirals so he can lecture them about being in shape and ending wokeness and Donald Trump can speak ominously about “the war from within” and using American cities as training grounds for troops. JVL, Sarah Longwell and Tim Miller react to the supremely weird meeting—and then spend some time reflecting on how the first nine months of Trump’s second term have stacked up against JVL's worst case scenario from a year ago.

Sarah and JVL talk about big-tent liberalism—who’s in and who’s out of the l-word tent. JVL goes on a riff on Henry Kissinger, which you are absolutely going to HATE.

And then we get the main event: JVL doesn’t think [gestures broadly] all this is fixable. Sarah has a plan to fix it. 

Who’s right?