The Passionistas Project Podcast | Passionate Women Empowerment Hosts

Lynn Harris is the CEO and founder of GOLD Comedy — the online comedy world for young women and non-binary folks who want to nerd out about comedy together. Lynn is also a creative partner to select brands, organizations and individuals, blending her experience in writing, communications, advocacy and entertainment to create strategic content that brings maximum fun to serious issues, for maximum impact.

Read more about Lynn Harris.

Learn more about The Passionistas Project.

Full Transcript:

Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas Project podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. And today we're talking with Lynn Harris, the CEO and founder of Gold Comedy, the online comedy worlds for young women and nonbinary folks who want to nerd out about comedy together, but is also a creative partner to select brands, organizations, and industry.

Blending her experience in writing communications, advocacy, and entertainment to create strategic content that brings maximum fun to serious issues for maximum impact. So please welcome to the show. Lynn Harris.

Lynn: Thank you.

Passionistas: What's the one thing you're most passionate about?

Lynn: Besides salt? I'm into salt and I'm into comedy is power. I'm passionate about a lot of things. I'm passionate about a lot of things. I think the most on-brand thing for me to say right now is comedy is power and comedy, as I'm passionate about comedy as power. And that's why it matters to me. Who's got the mic so to speak.

Passionistas: So what does that mean? What, what does comedy as power mean and why is it so important who has the mic?

Lynn: It's certainly at an individual level and to the cultural level. When you make people laugh, you make people listen. And comedy really has been, as you know, at this sort of level of joke and at the level of industry and at the level of culture has really been defined by a kind of a small narrow group of people since the beginning, which is.

Because if you think about it, comedy, everyone thinks of comedy as this outsider, art that you get into comedy. Cause like the underdog and you're punching up at power. And why are white dudes running the whole thing? It makes no sense. I'm working to try to change that. How are you changing? The more women do comedy.

The more women define comedy. And that's true, not just for women, but for anybody who is not a straight white dude, many of whom are very funny, but I think that comedy will be funnier if it is defined by more types of voices. And if comedy is funnier, the world's a better place, honestly. Not just because laughter is the best medicine, which it's like the second best the COVID vaccine is the best, but also because comedy affirms connections.

When you laugh at a joke, that means you get the joke. And when you get the joke, that means you're in on something you like, you got the reference, you follow the comic on there. On their bait and switch. And a lot of people say that, you know, that's, that's the reason that comedy brings people together.

I'm not super convinced that it does because for better and for worse, I think it's sort of affirms who we are. Not that it doesn't have something to teach us, which I can circle back to, but I think, you know, comedy does affirm who we are and what we think is funny and, uh, what we think is important. And it can also change that to some degree it can, um, cause as comedy, you know, comedy kind of is sort of a fun house mirror for color.

And what we're allowed to laugh at can change for better and for worse, usually for better the arc of a let's see, how can I destroy that? Quote, the, you know, the arc of, of comedy? What is it? They have bends toward justice, right? As things become okay to say not okay to say, I think that's a, both a driver and a reflection of culture evolving, and that's why it's important to have. For a lot of us to be in charge of how that culture is evolving.

Passionistas: So let's take this back. Tell us a little bit about your childhood and when was the first time you remember that you were funny?

Lynn: Okay. This is so dumb, but I remember I was, I don't know, six, seven, I don't know. And my mother was kind of the kind of person who, like, if you sneezed, she would be like, what's wrong.

And I remember I was little five or six whenever and she said, Are you and she heard me cough, or like I said something, I don't know what, and she said, are you okay? You're a little horse. And I said, no, I'm not. I'm a little, child's obviously my parents thought that was side splitting and I got a big laugh and I was like, oh, I can let them getting last as fun.

That's the first one. I remember, by the way I moved away from puns. Another time they were building. They were building like a new bath or renovating our bathroom, the house I grew up in. And so there was like the frame for a closet, but there was nothing in it yet. It was just like, the space was defined.

And so I went into the closet and I said, look, it's a Lynn in closet. That's where it all began. Folks

Passionistas: Was humor, always a part of your household? Like where your parents funny?

Lynn: Yeah. My parents are funny, white parents in very different ways. And they also, but in very different ways, but they definitely both of their families or also super funny in very different ways. But at the end of the day, they really just, they just, they liked a good joke. They just really liked a good joke. A funny movie, funny TV show. It was, there was, it was definitely. But like a high-value currency.

Passionistas: What sparked your interest in comedy? And did you immediately want to pursue a career in it?

Lynn: Maybe the career part came when I was a little older and wanted to find ways to upset my parents as opposed to delight them. But I just, I always just gravitated toward, I never defined or pursued a career in a certain kind of comedy, a certain kind of. Like my, I did stand up for a long time, but my goal in doing standup was to do stand up.

So I didn't, which is nice because it kind of took the pressure off. I worked at it, but I didn't, I didn't attach not that this is a bad thing, by the way, this is a completely legitimate and great thing. My goal at the time, wasn't to like, get on a show or get to, or, you know, get an agent and move to LA or whatever it was.

So either it just means I had, I was just content or just that I was really not at all. I just really liked standup. I just like it as an art form. I just, I just like it. I never attached it to a next level dream. And then I just kind of stopped doing it when I just got tired when I just couldn't stay up past 10 anymore.

Basically I used to host shows that started at 10 and now I'm, I don't know. And I'm not a napper, so I don't, I just powered through, I just always gravitated toward basically like the wacky red head, not the lead, but the leads weird from. Like the Janeane Garofalo character in the truth about cats and dogs, not to directly compare myself to her majesty, but, um, Jimmy grew up a little, but, um, but that idea was always my jam, I think in high school.

I went to, I had a pretty good experience overall, but I went to a very preppy high school and I had very preppy. They were very nice, but very preppy classmates who were sort of all tall and live and blonde. Um, none of which describes me. And they could like burst into lacrosse the way that I like the fame kids burst into song.

And so it just wasn't, I wasn't like miserable. It just was not, that was the central culture and I was not in that. And so I think I defined myself against it even harder by being like the theater kid played the goofy roles. That was just, I think it, I probably would have been that anyway, but I think I probably kind of defined myself against the lacrosse team.

And now. When I was in high school, um, I went on a ski trip. It was like a Jewish youth group ski trip up to this winter Wonderland. Um, that was called every year. It's still going on, still going on. This is the eighties it's still happening. And we all went up to Manchester, New Hampshire to ski and do other stuff for the weekend.

And on the Saturday night, um, a bunch of dudes. Somehow got ahold of like some grapefruits and some borrowed nightgowns and went and did this completely made up impromptu improvise, drag skit in the social hall that brought the house down. And my, it was sloppy. It was made up. It was, there's nothing inherently funny about dudes dressing as women, but it brought the house down and I, my first thought was okay, what are the girls going to do?

And my next thought was. Because I knew even then that wit girls would not be received the same way we could not be equally slept. And, and bring the house down. Not because we're not funny, but because that's not the way people view women as funny, or, you know, it's just women don't have that kind of audience.

Um, we didn't in the end, we maybe more now, definitely not back then. And so, like I just kind of, you know, my my third thought, you know, my first thought was, what are we doing second thought? And my third thought was. And so we didn't, I didn't say con let's come on, Debbie and Jenny let's go. So I didn't say anything.

And, um, I don't regret that because I think my instincts were correct, but I was bummed out out of, I was bummed out about it for years and I, that really, really stuck with me. It really, really stuck with me. I had this real sense that. That was not cool and not fair. And, uh, something would have to change.

Uh, and so I I'm, who knows, but that may be, oh, and fun fact, one of those dudes may or may not have been Adam Sandler who was there. So, um, I, as a civilian, it was his high school. So I have Adam Sandler to thank for Gold Comedy. And what I'm doing now is.

Passionistas: So that was high school. Where did you go to college? And, and what did you decide to focus on when you were in college?

Lynn: I went to, as we all like to say, I went to college in new Haven and, and very much enjoyed the pizza by the way, in new Haven, as the New York pizza snob, I will say that navens even better. So yeah, I went to, so I went to college at Frank Pepys and.

I did there wasn't any, there was improv. This is, this is the eighties. There was improv. I believe there was maybe a sketch group, but there was no awareness. There's no standup. Like now I hear they have stand up groups and I'll get back to that, but I didn't do it. So I didn't do like straight up comedy in college.

What I did do was I was in an acapella singing group once again, continuing on my nerd track. And I became, I was, I am not a great singer. What came naturally for me was doing the, like the shtick in between the songs. And so I became the ringleader of those things and that's where I kind of scratch the scratch to the comedy itch.

What did you do after college? Did you pursue a career in comedy or did you do some. I was always drawn to being a writer. That was always just what I was. I never decided that was what I was going to do. I just kind of knew that I was going to do something where I had to write. And I just had this tractor beam of wanting to be some form of writer, not in the way that, like I thought about it.

I didn't think about it. I w I didn't like journal about what dreaming of being a writer. And I didn't watch movies about thoughtful writers that I didn't, I just do it. And so after college, so I did a lot of journalism in college. And after college, that's really where I focused in terms of it didn't occur to me.

I could really make money as doing comedy. I loved theater and I was always, I loved being on stage, but I knew that I didn't have the gumption or that Moxie or the, I just didn't think I wanted to go to LA and compete with anybody. In that world. And I just didn't see myself as really an actor. I saw myself as more of a I cam then, or just a wise ass than a serious actor.

So I didn't really occur to me to head to the head, to the, to Hollywood or even New York for a few years. I went back to Boston for a little while and then, but I started doing, I started taking stand-up classes when I lived in Boston, when I lived. Laundry distance from home. Basically, I actually sort of freelancing as a journalist and I took a stand up class and I also had a day job.

My dad is a retired MIT professor. He, my dad's actually a very famous phenologist, which means that about seven people know who he is and that he's a heartbeat away from Noam Chomsky, which made me very popular. And I did. I had an office job at MIT that I'm sure was pure nepotism. So I called myself the rejectionist.

So I sat at a desk and told students that they had the wrong forms. And, but then more and more as I was able to get paid more and more for journalism, I phased out. My night job became my day job. And then I also did, started doing standup in Boston and Cambridge.

Passionistas: Tell us about your work as a journalist. Because I, uh, we saw that you like wrote like the first national mainstream article about dating violence and what kind of, uh, topics were you writing about and what drew you to those topics?

Lynn: That is a true story about you. Remember, you know, Parade Magazine, they insert. Frankly, if you want to get an issue out there, I think it has the pattern or had I'm going to get this wrong, but either the first or first, second, or third largest circulation of anything.

And so I, I did make a choice back then based on two things, I always cared a lot about various social justice issues. Influenced by my parents, especially my mom. And especially I, I wound up carrying the most about gender, gender justice, and related, um, you know, feminist stuff back then, we were not as nuanced about what we meant by gender justice.

It was, it was much more narrow focus on, on women's rights and probably white women's rights. I'm sure. But, you know, I thank my mom for, you know, making, being a feminist, not rebellion. So I, I gravitated toward social issues. Social justice issues, especially I was always really interested in how pop culture reflects or shapes culture.

As before. When I was talking about comedy, I was, I've always been interested in that in any culture, in any forum when Ellen came out. And culture had led it to be okay for that to happen. But then when she did it, it also changed culture. Like it's back and forth. And I just cared about it mainly because I really love television.

And, and in all seriousness, I do think, I think it matters. And it was always, there was always some combination of what gets me out of bed in the morning is social justice. And what keeps me up at night is till. Burning the candle at both ends. And so at that somehow first, it just kind of happened. But then I evolved into making a real choice about choosing to write for the most mainstream possible publications about issues that would kind of push them a little bit, push things a little bit, maybe not push the publication, but push people a little bit.

And, um, and even if I had to do a little bit more, more like both sides or whatever, To appear balanced or whatever. And maybe I wouldn't write it quite the same way as aggressively as I would write it for, um, uh, you know, a real, like a lefty. We didn't have blogs then, but blog, I made the choice also financial, you know, because they paid more to, I'm not, I wasn't that noble to write for.

Um, I kind of got lucky with Parade, but, um, no. Okay. I worked hard on that, but I wound up gravitating toward women's magazines also, which were. Terrible in many ways, but way more feminist than people ever thought. I'm way more aware, like anyone who didn't think Cosmo was performance art and God, I just, nobody should have any, should waste any time being angry at Cosmo it's it was, I just don't.

I never understood that. And so I wrote a lot for Glamor and Glamor was way ahead of a lot of those. They went back and forth a little bit after. With Whitney, but under Ruth, they had a Glamor had this column about all the female senators, all of them, the definitive legions, a female senators that reported on exactly what they were doing.

Exactly what they were. And weren't doing for Glamour readers. You're not gonna find that elsewhere. Um, no one else has wrote about the women's senators. Nobody cared and. And so in Glamour, would you way back then would write about abortion and all those things. And sure. Their audience was huge and included people who were anti-abortion, but I, but then when I got to write about it, I wasn't preaching to the choir necessarily, and you can humanize the issue and you can really actually change hearts and minds a little.

And so I that's what I, that's what I gravitated toward. And I was able to eventually. I worked so hard at writing for so many different types of publications. I wrote for a sewing newsletter. I wrote for obviously Glamour tons of different publications each with their own style. And the most important thing I learned was aside from feeling that I was, in some cases, doing something important, the most important, important skill I learned was to be able to write in the publications voice and not be fancy about that. Cause I wasn't ready to express myself. I was running cause I liked writing and it was, I mean, I just, wasn't all precious about that. I, it was a fun game to be like, okay, how do I write about this thing in that voice? And how do I channel that voice? It's really, it's interesting. It's a project.

It's a puzzle. It's not. Like, that's what you do in your journey. For those of you watching the podcast, I'm miming, I'm listening to the podcast, I'm miming some sort of like, kind of BS self-expression, but like you wouldn't have to deliver a product and it's, it's fun only after you learn how to do that.

Do you really get to a place? I think where you then get you get assignments from people who are asking you to write in your voice. Um, so that eventually after I worked and worked and worked for years and years and wrote. Uh, probably thousands of articles. I can't even remember. Then I was able to do things like for Salon and other publications where they'd be like, no, please, you do you.

And, and, and really have my own voice. I had a bunch of different columns in my ear that were supposed to be Edward a column for the DailyToominNews. Like things that we're supposed to be sound like me, not sound like them, but that is not where you start. And, and, and, and it's, it's so much the better, you know, the better for it.

It's like TV, it's like TV. Our usual friend, Amy Toomin Strauss was, um, is teaching for Gold Comedy now. We were talking to her about what to teach and when, or what are the different things that she could teach. And, and, you know, I do sort of hear and feel out there that everyone's like, well, I've got a great idea for a show, um, because, because rightly things have been, so, um, the platforms have been so democratized now that like, sure you could do, you, you could write your, you know, put your show on YouTube and maybe.

You know, maybe it'll get picked up or maybe, you know, that it's not that that doesn't happen now, but Amy's point was. Yeah, but I don't want to teach how to write your own show. First. I want to teach how to write someone else's show and it's the same thing. Learning how it show you needing to be able to show a show runner that you understand, obviously the basics that apply anywhere and everywhere, but also how to write for that show, how to channel those characters, those voices, those situations.

How to replicate that world. And so it's definitely analog that I really learned in journalism. I've learning how to write the other stuff first. Then you get to do your own thing. It works the same way on stand up. I'm not that you should go around telling other people's jokes or writing other people's jokes for them.

It doesn't really start that way unless you're Ava on PACS, which we love. And she didn't start that way either. But anyway, 2, 0 1 almost comedians. I know. Or people who either teach or mentor comedians always say, find the comedians that you like and learn them, know them, live them, and even go ahead and do the exercise of writing jokes.

Like there's obviously you can't go and do that and get paid for that. Or, or, you know, there's a point past which that's stealing, but just that the imitation. The imitation and the practice and the imitation and the practice is really helpful. And it helps you learn how any joke works.

Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Lynn Harris.

If you're a young woman or identify as nonbinary and want to turn your sense of humor into your superpower, visit GoldComedy.com.

If you're enjoying this interview and would like to help us to continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting ThePassionistasProject.com/podcast and clicking on the Patron button.

Even $1 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions. Now here's more of our interview with Lynn.

So in 1997, you found your own voice and you created Breakup Girl.

Lynn: Co-created.

Passionistas: Co-created. Yes. So tell us about that character in the show and how it expanded as time and technology.

Lynn: I co-created a Breakup Girl with Chris Cobb. So, so in '97 it was much, much easier to get a book contract. You didn't have to already have a blue check mark. You didn't already have to have a sub stack or whatever, like you, if you had an, you really just had to have a good idea. Seriously. I had an idea about writing a humor book about surviving a breakup and.

I went to bat to have Chris who's a brilliant illustrator. And we had collaborated before I went to bat to have Chris have us be a package deal. It'd be the designer and illustrator of the book, which also would never happen now. So we actually, literally, we actually realized we were roommates in a different block and you were sitting there figuring out all the real estate and what we had written and what he had designed.

And we realized we had like a few more, like we had like. You know, 16 more pages to fill in. We were like, ah, and then Chris was like, you know, I was just kind of thinking that we, that, I don't know if there should be like a superhero character. And I was like, oh my God, we should've done that from the beginning.

And so we created this, it was originally Chris's idea. But, but from that moment, we collaborated and came up with the idea of this, the superhero who helps people with romantic emergencies. We have superheroes who can bend steel bars, but how about one that it can mend broken heart? And so that we invented this kind of classic, like kind of a winking version of a classic superhero who had like a utility Fanny pack.

And who's really, but actually really smart and thoughtful character who had her own problems, but was able to help others. And so we added her origin story and all this other stuff in the book and added her as this voice and presence in the book. And then the book did. Okay. But then people were like, what?

I liked that character. And so in actually that was in '91, whatever '96, I don't remember '96. And then in '97, Chris was like, there's this thing that mostly NASA uses, but it's called the worldwide web. And I think it would be super fun to make a page on the worldwide web about. And so we created a website in '97.

That was literally an overnight success because no one else was doing anything remotely like it. And we just did it. We did the thing that does not happen now, which is we built it and they came and it hasn't happened yet. But the advice column, I decided to write an advice column. It got super popular. I think it was, you know, Chris's artwork is amazing, but I do think that, um, and this goes back to the idea of the intersection of pop culture and social change, what we were doing that was different.

And this was intentional. We kind of wandered into this enterprise, but the part, once we kind of get our bearings, um, the part that was intentional was that it was not going to be a female superhero talking to women about related. Because that's stupid and it's reductive and in the world, at least of like binary, heterosexual people, half the people in relationships are dudes.

So like, why is it thought of as like this lady thing that's so stupid. And, and we kept coming up against that because then people would assume that because Breakup Girl was female, because we were talking about relationships that it was a site for women. And it never was never, not even, it never was. We just, we made it it's about relationships and we wanted to change.

This was, we were like intentional about this. We wanted to change the way people thought and talked about relationships. So from the very beginning, the letters that we would get online, we're not even close to all from women. So many from dudes. And we had no letters from people that we have different words for.

Now, people would say, do your breakup girl, I'm a secret. Cross-dresser my wife doesn't have. And all these things that we talk to gay people and straight people, a trans people at all these things that no one else was doing, not because we were like brilliant, but because we, there was intentional that we really did think it was dumb that, that only half the people in relationships were talking about relationships or had a place to talk about relationships.

I think that plus the combination of humor, she had a really specific style of nerdy, superhero comic book humor that people felt comfortable with. And was nice to everybody. It got really big. And then the property. Got we got acquired by Oxygen and, um, in a really kind of great deal because they hired us.

They didn't buy it away from us. They ha they bought us with it. So we got hired to create it for Oxygen on an even bigger platform. Um, and that all went straight to hell a while ago, awhile, awhile later, but that's a story for a less jaunty podcast, but, but out now we actually are. We're playing around with it with a new version.

A lot of the stuff that she talks and talked about is, is eternal. But a lot of it is like, we talked about like computer dating. Um, and so, you know, some of that stuff has to be updated.

Passionistas: You have so many things that we could talk to you about, but let's focus a little bit on Gold Comedy. When and why did you start.

Lynn: Well, that part goes kind of goes back to Adam Sandler and wanting to, and also having them stand up myself. And I didn't have a lot of people have a lot of women who worked a lot harder at it than I did and did a lot more of it than I did have much worse stories about, about everything from just garden variety, sexism to outright horrific.

And not just the harassment itself, but would it having a law? I didn't really get into the whole world where I, that many other women did, where you have to actually make choices about jobs that you don't take and jobs that aren't even offered to you because they're cause you don't, you can't work with that guy or because that guy already has a woman or whatever.

So even my mild experiences were exhausting and outrageous and. All paths lead to this idea of making sure that women, especially young women and anyone else outside the comedy norm, which is often a way to name norm had access to the fun of comedy and the power of comedy. And it matters. It matters because women are people and it matters because comedy is a job and it ma it matters because comedy is power.

I just had this idea of how much better would the world be if we had an even broader idea of who's funny or, or who makes us think, or who helps us process that, that day's crazy news. And I thought, what if I just start building the farm? And so now it's gone through various forms in reality, and in my mind, but now what we have is the only, and this was by the way, just, we, I was envisioning this online long before anyone knew about any kind of COVID or a pandemic, because part of the vision for me was, first of all, nobody wants to, I don't recommend starting a brick and mortar place in New York City because it's.

But also, I wanted to find the funny young people and not even young people who don't live in New York, Chicago, San Francisco, LA, Toronto, where can we find the Carrie Underwood of comedy? Let's like if they can Zoom in from Dakota and they're funny then. Great. So I always had this idea of creating an online school and community and online place of learning and social interaction, where, where you could find your comedy crew no matter where you live and get the learning and collaboration and interactivity interaction and helping each other out that I did get from my crew in New York and many people do, but it's hard to find.

And again, what if you don't live in New York or what if you're not old enough to go to club? We opened again, went through lots of different ideas and permutations, but we opened our current members member, only members only club last fall. And so we now have this amazing online platform, which is powered by a company called mighty networks.

Basically they built the bones of the app and we just bring our people in our stuff. And we have a place where. Women and young women and non binary folks come to, let's see Mondays, we have open mics with feedback. Like they're the nicest open mics in the world. Plus you get feedback from me and other and your peers Tuesdays and Thursdays usually are when we have our courses right now, we're in the middle of the standup course.

We just finished improv. We posted on storytelling and sketch, which yes, you can do all of this online. Wednesdays, every Wednesday we have a Q and A with a comedy pro or celebrity. Writers who have toilet in the trenches whose names you don't know, but who shows, you know, to, uh, Rachel Dratch and Bloom, Ashley Nicole Black from A Black Lady Sketch Show, like an amazing range of people.

And you just show up in the Zoom and ask them like you totally just fan girl out and ask them questions. We have monthly shows that are open to the public. We pay our own comics for. For performing because it's work and you want to set that tone set that precedent. We just did a pride show, which is amazing with Murray Hill and Sydney Washington.

And so we basically just create the experiences that, that, that young or new, or not even new medium. We have a lot of comedians in the gang who have been doing comedy for a little while, but still want to find the people in the place to really nerd out and really like level up as fast as they can. And we have folks.

I think our youngest is an eighth grade with a couple of eighth grade and then all the way up to people Myers. And then we just. Uh, a course that's outside the member's club. So like we had, so you get all that with a subscription, it's all inclusive with a subscription. Then we have a one-off course that we call gold label, which is being taught by your friend and mine, Amy Toomin Strauss, who is the one who wrote The One With the Embryos, um, on Friends.

And she's teaching in a three series on about TV writing, con TV, comedy writing, and that's open to people inside and outside of the. It's really the place. It's the place to find your way to level up your work and find your crew. And it's great if you, you know, there's a lot of like improv for T-Mobile.

And stuff like that, which is great. But we really present comedy as a path to comedy it's comedy for comedy. However, there are many people, we also attract a lot of people who may or may not want to be professional comedians in whatever capacity, standup writers, whatever, but who know that comedy skills are life skills and they like comedy.

So they're like, well, that's perfect. I can learn to be, I can use this thing. I love. To learn how to, you know, write better sink faster, listen, better, get out of my head. Um, stop self-editing react more quickly. Um, all those things are, things are things you can do. And, you know, find your voice, which is, which sounds abstract and woo, but it's a thing.

Um, understand your what's, your unique take on things. You can do all that. So we have a real mix of people. It's sort of varying levels of intensity around their comedy career goals, but there's room for everybody.

Passionistas: How does the average person get involved? How do people become a part.

Lynn: Funny, you should ask. Um, all you need to do is visit our website, which has a lot of free resources on it. Also, I believe that the, uh, irritating term for that is freemium. If lots of articles and, you know, useful, actionable snackable, actionable resources to, to help you just kind of learn. Basics of joke writing and you know how to make your PowerPoint funnier without being a group without being too much of a dork.

So there's just a ton of ton of free resources. And then if, um, if folks are interested in joining what we call the, the club, the Gold Comedy club, um, Click right through from our website to there and learn more about that, frankly, the price is amazing. Um, and frankly, it's going to go up. Um, so one of these days, so, so it's $299. 99 a year for all of that stuff.

Anything we do in the club, you get any course, um, any, all of our self-paced, we have a ton of one-off classes that are just an hour. With, you know, a writer from James Corden talking about topical jokes, you know, um, you could just nerd out without, and just inhale all of that stuff. You can take our, um, our lives, you know, live on Zoom classes, all those things.

So that's all with that one price. Um, so, and then we, we, we record and archive everything that we do. So you also have active. That's why eventually the price is going to go up because our, our resource libraries is getting bigger literally every week. So, um, it's really, really fun. And the. As much as I'm proud of all the resources and I'm happy to like drop all the names of the famous people who have, you know, who swing by and answer questions.

And I'm happy to talk about the quality of the, of the instruction and all that stuff. Really. The thing is the community, really the thing. And because you all these people who have literally never met, unless it's their friend that they brought in, um, are like this incredibly supportive. Like cheering section for each other and people will post like stuff they're working on and get feedback.

Um, people will come to other classes, final shows just to cheer the others on. Um, people really have there's. We have a lot of 1, 2, 3, few people who have now done open mikes for the first time, because they felt, you know, got those skills and the confidence from us. And, um, and then, and now like people are going now that we can do this.

People who live in the same city are like starting to go see the other people in your life. And it's a whole thing. So it's really, um, just it's that kind of, you know, safe, supportive ad-free, um, welcoming place that you can't, you can get. And, and most comedians say like the most important thing is to find your crews.

You can do that, but this is. This is not, instead of, if you start doing comedy in some city and you meet your friends, it's not instead of that, but this is, this one is going to be there for you wherever you are, um, and all the time and it's on your phone. Um, so, uh, yeah, it's really, that's the most moving thing that I've seen. It was my goal. So I'm not surprised, but I'm delighted that it really has turned out that way.

Passionistas: Listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Lynn Harris. If you're a young woman or identify as nonbinary and want to turn your sense of humor into your superpower, visit GoldComedy.com.

Please visit ThePassionistasProject.com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans. To inspire you to follow your path. Use the code FALLMYSTERY to get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription. And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project podcast, so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests until next time.

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Quest Skinner is an artist who is always striving to find new ways to make her artwork break away the emotional blockade between artists and buyers. As a mixed-media artist, teacher and community activist. Quest is influenced by the energy of cityscapes, music and the personalities she encounters every day. Then, in her studio, she brings them into her world; a world that takes raw feelings, vibrations and various moments in our lives then captures them with flowing pigments. Quest’s artwork tells a story that changes with every person who sees her work. Working with different traditional and non-traditional mediums, her fluid and always interchanging style of work keeps patrons coming back to explore the world through Quest’s eyes.

Read more about Quest Skinner.

Learn more about The Passionistas Project.

Full Transcript:

Passionistas: Hi and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same.

We’re Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we’re talking with Quest Skinner, an artist who is always striving to find new ways to make her artwork break away the emotional blockade between artists and buyers. As a mixed-media artist, teacher and community activist. Quest is influenced by the energy of cityscapes, music and the personalities she encounters every day. Then, in her studio, she brings them into her world; a world that takes raw feelings, vibrations and various moments in our lives then captures them with flowing pigments. Quest’s artwork tells a story that changes with every person who sees her work.

Working with different traditional and non-traditional mediums, her fluid and always interchanging style of work keeps patrons coming back to explore the world through Quest’s eyes.

So please welcome to the show, Quest Skinner.

Quest: Thank you guys for having me.

Passionistas: What's the one thing you're most passionate about?

Quest: I think as I get older, staying honest and true to self. Over the years, you know, we compromise just a little and sometimes it really will take one moment and make it eternal. I just want to make sure that I stay true to self and vibe and keep my, my spirit in life and love.

It's so easy to get knocked off of your posts when things aren't always, or don't appear to be what you want or aren't in focus in that moment. So staying focused.

Passionistas: Let's take a step back. Tell us a little bit about where you grew up and your childhood. And, um, in particular, where did your name come from?

Quest: Childhood is one of those sensitive issues with me. I think like anybody who really creates and put your heart in your blood and your mind into it, it's got to come out of something. And I look at my childhood coming out of Pittsburgh, a little like a coal miner's daughter. I was, I learned how to sew. I learned how to hunt.

I learned how to fish. I learned how to live organic and be a part of everything around me. And then I also learned we're fine. And I learned how to dress and walk the part and go to Bible school. And you know, this, I went to Colfax Elementary School, so a little Jewish elementary school, and I learned the world from being in a microcosm that was so filled with culture.

The one thing I can say is those mountain cities, like the one that I moved to now, Seattle, they're filled with so much art, so much culture vibing communities that in the worst of times, really make the most intricate and extreme and brilliant thought process manifest out of nothing. So, yeah, Pittsburgh, that was part of it.

And then about 16. And after my 16th birthday, my mother kind of packed me up and said, we're moving Arizona. And I went from mountains to Val. And it was very amazing. I got really interconnected with, um, one of my cousins and she's just a spirit of fire and life and by vivacious. And here we both are at 43 and we are alive.

I think it all comes from being, being in, in extreme different environments and not really knowing what I was getting into, but being a part of that environment made emoted and really created this like international, global little phenomenon spirit. It was everybody to go a little bit deeper into it.

How did I even get my name? I was in high school and I had to write a paper. It was like one of those graduating papers, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I remember choosing to write it about two sisters, one Simplicity, and the other one was Quest. And Simplicity was everything that a parent would want, calm, chill, responsible, this, that, and a third. And Quest was everything that everybody should want to be — free, expressive, full of love, sexy, but not sexual, sensual, but not offensive like me. And I realized in that moment that that is who I would always be. And it wasn't so much, like, I think when we think of artists choosing names, we don't look at the history of the country and look at the tribes always. We didn't really name.

We didn't look at it as naming. People, pick their names, their souls were picked upon these growth and developments. So to just adjust to my original into who I am now, the name just gave it gravity.

Passionistas: What is your cultural heritage? What's your ancestry. And how does that kind of impact the path year one?

Quest: So how about this love life. Had a little had that I'm about to turn 40 nervous breakdown and made everybody kind of like dig in and do the genealogy by records. And our family is actually a Cherokee, Iroquois, uh, Choctaw, Chickasaw, uh, Shinnecock, uh, and Piscataway natives. You know, you think about it over time in 500 years.

It's so beautiful that maybe not all the tribes got together, but they created together this gorgeous entity and being so, you know, that's why, where my head dress and that's how even Burning Man found me. And it was funny to me, when presented with all these great minds from around the world. And I'm like, yeah, I'm a black native.

You know, I'm a native American. We came in on hues. And they're looking at me and they're like, why aren't you mad? I'm like, man, this is so big. It's so deep. It's bigger than even me. Right. But this is the story that has to be told so that we can heal. There's a reason why it was called the melting pot. We had every color, we had every spectrum and we always have. And when we go back to loving all of our unique ancestry and our, and our spirit, and we can begin to know who we really are, then we set ourselves free.

Passionistas: So let's talk about you getting into art. Were you always an artist?

Quest: I think I was, I think from the little tie dye shorts when I was a kid and the first time I kind of got a hold of a bottle of bleach and understood that I could take my genes and create and alter something else out.

Uh, I made bandanas a little hint. Here's scrunchies for kids in elementary school. Like so poetry, you know, in high school and toured what's up with people. I think I always was this, but it's when we find our art forms. It's when we find our medium or maybe I should say when they find us, when we have exposed ourself enough that we can be a channel and a conduit and really pick up as a vessel, all the possibilities.

I think I always was an artist, but I remember my first art show. So funny. I remember I'm in DC. I'm having this, like, you know, gotta come through big. I've got an art shit right now. Just have one. I get to, so my first opening night, I got two shows. I'm bouncing from here, running down the street to the next one.

And I remember my parents coming and my stepfather looked at me and he. That's what you are. You're an art. Okay. We can take it from there because we didn't know what you were going to be because you can be anything. So that's what you are. You're an artist. And I looked at him and I said, for sure, and always, and now I get it like two decades later, massive amount of pieces done, you know, and, and created.

And somehow to be able to create. 13,000 pieces, but it's so hard for some people to pull them all together and see them as one beam, because there's so many different styles and, and I just, I would get tired. I would get bored of something. I don't want to think the same little lady all day long. I refuse.

And it got to the point where I would tell clients when I'm done with the color it stuck. When red is over, red is dead. When it's time for green. That's right. When it's blue will be true, but when it's over, you will not ask me again for this painting. I think that that one move is what saved my psyche.

Cause I had payment this Africa lady, so cute. God, I still leverage it as day, but I had a dozen women try to get me to paint this painting over and over again. And insanity is doing the same thing over and over again.

Passionistas: How did you take that moment? And what, where did your art go from there? If you can do anything, how do you, how do you channel, um, what your inspiration is into the right piece of art?

Quest: I wish I had that formula. I wish I could literally sit back and go, oh, this is what makes it.

Honestly, I think it's like my neighbor who knocked on a door earlier. It's just having those spirits randomly come through who I'm working on something and they just go, you know what I was thinking? And it amplified being open really, I think creates better pieces. As I get older, I wanted to worry about creating a perfect circle.

Right. That's the ultimate like something so simple. But to be able to do a complete circle is a sign of a very ingenious individual. So how much time do you spend trying to do a perfect circle before you realized you could have just removed everything else around it and made it perfect. And it would have been a circle tip.

Right? So I got to a point where I don't tell my work what to do it doesn't tell me what. I, I literally go in there and have fun smoke a Chile, listen to some Isley brothers or some really good music, maybe Shaka Khan. If I'm having a low day, I want to hear that. Tell me something good. I'm going to have some fun, like, but this was meant to be fun.

It wasn't meant to break me down and worry about anything. It wasn't something that I chose so that I lost sight of like a beautiful sunny day and getting out there and enjoying it. It was something that I picked because it was cathartic, it was loving. And it allowed me to heal people that I love. They literally, even in like the worst times going through the pandemic, I would occasionally get like little emails and texts that said, like, just being here with my piece of art.

I've made it like my little cuddle corner. It's where I'm finding my safe space. And that was the goal that when we have to go into our homes or go into our deeper selves, you have these totems around you to live your spirit and to carry you on to make you move forward, to think of yourself in that higher light.

So when you flow like that, do you get to tell God what's. No. Okay. Do you get to tell angels how to like bless you? No. Okay. So art doesn't get to, I don't get to tell arc what to do. I'm lucky to be in a presence and to be a vessel up. And I seem like that defeats a lot of artists trying to found something that is endless and boundless without you in beautiful.

And you're just here to transcribe for the audience.

Nobody worries about the little lady in the, in the courtroom who actually puts all the words down forever. But in hindsight, she's the most important person because most people will be lost with her emotions instead of following a stenographer and understanding her words are creating the whole play out of everything that has happened in front of us.

When we lose sight of that. So in sense, maybe I'm just that little humble stenographer for, in a corner, just typing away on the keys and nobody paying attention. Other jobs. I've had people go, that's your job. You're a flight attendant. I walk in the room as an artist and people are looking at those, you did that.

Yeah. Yeah. I built that thing and it's like two stories high, in my apartment.

Passionistas: You create in many different mediums, in many different styles. You say you don't want to create the same piece twice. But is there a, is there a common thread if you had to describe your style to somebody, what would you say?

Quest: Regrounding, elegance, alchemy magic, fun, free, cocoa, sexy diva. And that's just what I get to live in and bring out of me and drop on a world. But I realized like my cocoa divas are my cream divas and my golden girls, and they are everybody in between. And there is no spectrum on it. It's a, it's a spirit on it. So I think I create for us as divine, feminine, as placed in a little zones where we can go.

Like you see the pieces. We can go and smoke a cigarette over by miracle mile in Chicago, if we need to, or go ahead and like, you know, become warriors and battle dragons. But whatever it is when I was growing up, little girls had Barbies. And that was like the rate of our consciousness. Right? Little miss Barbie.

And I love her. She got more adventurous and stuff, but she didn't always equate all of them. And the brush gives me what it, what it wants and the space and the canvas or the boards, they give me what they can bear. So some of the time, my little divas off might be pencil thin and other times they might be thick as rockstars and look like they go kick down a door and I love that.

Like it is every woman and as somebody who's been 240 pounds to 150 pounds. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I'm all of them. We go through so many stages in our life. We deserve to have little, little dolls that really do fit all of us. We deserve to have gorgeous little warriors that still in our heart note, if they're going to, like, after the war is over, go sit under those, some underneath the bullet bath and read books with kids.

We still have to be the mother, the warrior, the festival, the nurturer that everything. But we, we need more variety in our attitude about how we accept that. You know, we're not every little girl wants to wear the little tube, pink release, gargle nights. Some of them want to put on her little Carhartts and go out and get sustainable and ground themselves.

And they don't want to be considered less because of how they, they find their, their, their speeds.

Passionistas: We’re Amy and Nancy Harrington and you’re listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Quest Skinner. To learn more about her art visit Quest Skinner dot com.

If you are enjoying this interview and would like to help us to continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a Patron by visiting The Passionistas Project dot com backslash podcast and clicking on the patron button. Even $1 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions.

Now here’s more of our interview with Quest.

How did you get involved with burning man and what does that experience mean to you? Cause it seems like it's a very significant experience to people who are part of that movement.

Quest: It's like when you say burning man, the first thing you got almost in your heart as welcome home.

So that would have went. That's really what it was for the outgoing autodidact. Little little diva who pretty much speaks multiple languages has traveled the world, but always can be seen in one dimension, depending on the United States where I'm at. Right. I get there. Everybody's like, it's going to be different.

You have an nymity, people will just let you be quests. And it's like, I walk on Playa, no anonymity rockstar. And from the moment I get there and it was. I at least found kids like myself who were still trapped in her older they're adults, but needed to run around in our moon boots and our little tidy whities and be free.

One last time before the lights go out, I needed to be around other artists who love their work, but were afraid of the spotlight at the same time, too, because if you don't feel that anxiety and those butterflies, how do you, I know you're real. Like it burn. Okay. Going back. So, um, man, it's so crazy how my labs have always crisscrossed.

Right? So my neighbor across the hallway, his name is Jr. Rest nexus. Um, we go to burning man together. He had been a burn a couple of times before we'll come in, show me the videos, the whole nine you're born with me next year. And I'm like, yeah. Okay. Well next year and he called me and I'm sitting in new Orleans.

Getting ready to get on a flight. And he goes, what are you doing at the end of August? Beginning of September asset? I don't know. He says you want to go to Burning Man? And I put so many H-E and hockey sticks behind it and Y-E-SSSSSSS that I figured my heart was in it. So I ended up, um, getting ready to go to burning man announcing it at Eastern Market, finding out that I couldn't like, I, I.

It was almost like blacklisted, right? It's like, you're going to, you're going to burning man. And you're leaving the fine art world of Eastern Market that you have been over here building, and you want to go party in the desert with people. And I'm like, no, I want to go to build art. I want to learn how to like be with the baddest engineers and see some of the most epic art pieces in a world.

And that was my goal. When I started this. Just to see a life of art, where else in the world, can you go and see that much art and make a life out of it? So the whole thing with these star market, I remember calling one of my mentors for burn and he said, so, okay, most people lose their job coming back from burn.

You lost your risk before you left. And I was like, he goes, so do you still want to go? And I said, If that's all they can do is try and stale me. Yeah, my dream I'm gone. I will always be able to make the artwork, sell the pieces, find a new fucking venue. And only when I come back, went back, talked to them, basically told them you guys have gone way too fucking far.

We're looking at lost wages, restitutions and gag orders for the whole group. I think we should figure this out. Got my job back everything. Right? Like life was normal again. And I'm still on my way to Burning Man. I got to give them my ticket through BurningMan.org. They were looking to bring more people of color would project radical inclusion.

And it was really, it was a, it was a blessing, not in disguise, announced in loud to be able to venture out. And when I got there realized. They were just as intrigued. And I think had spent just as much time learning about me, my art, my spirit, to make sure that I was a fit it's different when you're invited somewhere and people don't take the courtesy to understand who and what they're dealing with.

I got pulled in with such, um, a nurturing spirit and I went from one camp my first year and I'm at the camp and everybody's like, Quest, it seems like you have a job. And I was like, yeah, I kind of do I'm working with foam camp and stuff and doing a front of house. And it was awesome. And they were like, you're the only person we know who came on vacation and picked up a job.

I say, because even in my playland, I still got to have something to do with them. I'm not just going to be here on debaucherous is I'm damn near 40 and y'all some of y'all are my kids' age and I want to make sure you're safe. You know what I'm saying? It's not, it's not for me to go backwards. It's for me to go forward and be futuristic while forgiving those things that were backward in life.

So end out on Playa. Next thing I know the next year, that camp, um, That I was working in front of the house with, I get called until you took one of the hardest jobs. And most people get yelled at screamed at the whole night and you just worked at, and we would love to have you mentioned your come out with us.

So that relationship blossomed, I ended up doing costume, makeup, artistic design for them, direction shows with Alison and Alex Gray at Burning Man. It just was going home. Where, no more improving of yourself and what you can do, but in the right spirit in spaces where people were able to obtain, see, and you can grow and make these connections.

So the following year, which would have been my third year, I got asked to have my artwork, artery in everywhere. And that is the heart of the Playa. That's where they put out all the artwork. And of course it's mind blowing. When some of the best artists in the world really do come up and, and go not, oh, I know you you're like for real, like, dude, you're, you're pretty decent.

Like it's mind blowing and the pieces that they create with heart and salt, you know, I wish more people understood how artists truly do sacrifice and put everything in it to be able to have. Such a small glimmer on a window of opportunity to showcase and show like, you've got to love this thing. You got to love, like staying up, you know, like us, when I told you guys I'm up till five in the morning, this morning working on a mermaid, like, I'm sorry, I'm going to be 15 minutes late.

You got to put it all in here. And sometimes you got to know like one thing may cost or, you know, go slightly undone because of, but it's worth it. Burn showed me. In a, in a whole nother capacity. Like I now know how to do plumbing. I know how to run solar panels. I know how to build an infrastructure in a middle of a desolate environment.

I know how to help people who may not know how to help themselves. It almost is like being cute. Sparkly. By the time you pack up all your gear, your bags, your headlamps, all this, that. And the third, I feel every year, like I am almost like an itty bitty Marine worn out there in my tutus. And ready to go.

Passionistas: Tell us about the commission, the mural you were commissioned to paint at The National Museum of Women in the Arts last year.

Quest: During a pandemic after months. Um, you know, isolation, yeah, one of my best friends hit me up. Her daughter is my goddaughter, love her little like amazing lightning and a little yoga at nine years old, like best.

And her mom calls me and she goes, babe, you know, we got to board up the museum and you know, I want to put one of your pieces up there.

Would you be willing to do. And I was like, dude, okay. Yeah, actually I'll do it for you. What can I do? What should we do? And she said, it's all up to you. And I said, then I want to do Octavia Butler quotes. And we went drum and we picked some Octavia Butler quotes, and I just did the words and some little stencils and stuff on the side of the two doors.

And while out there she walks up to me and goes, I need you to do one. Come around. It shows me the front of the women's museum. And I said, I know what to put there. I got it. I'm going to do it real quick and just need like two hours. So I put the woman with the headdress on and it said, um, in order for a Phoenix to rise, we must first burn.

And that's the truth. Like we literally left one old world last year, one. Thousand year link and it was great, but it's over. And some things now must be put to Ash and sense to be able to rise to true potential. And a lot of that is people's fears and our hurt and our pain. And that was just one of my favorite pieces last year.

And I started crying because when I think of the people that I love, they're the ones who will actually get me out to go. You know, to make these things into create these pieces don't fall. And Malani her name is Malani Douglas. I think that's who I would like you guys to work as your neck as my next Passionistas it's out there.

Um, she's just an amazing spirit and her energy. We have been friends since we were in our twenties. When a great woman called her shoe, you get on a phone and you go to, and that's what, one of the greatest women that I know, and to be able to put that up at the Women's Museum, all of the women walking by, and then to see those who are indigenous people, black, indigenous Aboriginal Americans, who don't even know that.

And go, we got a little Cherokee in us, or we got a little Choctaw in our family too, and it's like, we are, and I love you all for that. And to give you a total man for you to start seeing that it's a natural progression where we are, who we are, it just makes it all simpler. It makes it better. It was a fun piece.

I really did enjoy doing that one, but more than anything, I just love doing it because Melanie.

That's pretty hard. He's just like, when it comes to me doing pizza, she's like, dude, whatever you do, whatever you need, whatever you want to do, rock out so supportive.

Passionistas: While you were doing that, the people walking by were part of the Black Lives Matter protests. Right?

Quest: It was everything, you know, I'm down here and I'm realizing like you've got black lives matter.

People walking by, you have people who are out of uniform, walking by who are down there, holding them back. It was so just pose because you have people who it was their job, and they did not want to be there. And you have people who were fighting for their lives. And that was now their new job in a pandemic.

When your people have to come out and plead for civil civil rights, like plead for food for better education. Because now they understand that their children have been defeated for the last five and 10 and 15 years. When they, when they realize that they believed in something and they were looked down by their beliefs, it said to think that out of all the so-called, um, first world country, We had, uh, we had a 10th world approach.

We left our children out there. We left our elderly out there. We left Black Lives Matter for sure. You know what I'm saying? But we left everybody last year. Scared, exhausted, fighting for love, fighting for rights. When in all honesty, it's almost appalling when you think of the other countries that literally.

In your bank account tomorrow, you will wake up and there will be $10,000 or $20,000 because that's honestly, and we know because we have accountants, we have eco economists. We know this to survive for six months. As we're asking you to please stay home so we can keep you safe. You are workforce, you are our doctors.

We need to lessen the burden on everybody. Last year. It was a perfect piece to put in front of everyone.

Given a chance though. I would probably now put a mirror there and let people know that year was supposed to be for you to focus on reflect on and change yourself. What excuse can you have while watching someone's child shot dead in the middle of the street? What validity can you give me? What communication can you tell me is important over here?

And if you can find that there is something perversed and sick with you, and we need to call it out. Like we are so geared to call out everyone's atrocities and offenses, but we won't call out the simple fact that this has been atrocious and offensive for just the global community outside the United States.

I have to bear witness and watch every day.

It's interesting. How many people, I think, lost focus of how much of an opportunity this was, you know, too, we did it smart. There would have been free classes. I'd have yarn, a Yale, Harvard, Duke, and. For everyone so that you can get skills trades, do physical therapy, be able to, you know, talk to counselors. We literally left a whole world almost abandoned and abated here without any guidance in any care.

Passionistas: So what's your dream for the future for your little granddaughter and for your little goddaughter?

When I was young, I used to say every morning when I woke up, God make me strong. Cause yesterday I was. I probably wasn't the best one in the world. And I know there are hundreds of little girls and then one day I realized after like worshiping and post covers, that were thousands of little girls looking up to me as great as she is the little girl who surpass it's me, that she stays elegant, refined, beautiful unapologetic about her spirit, her body, her mind operated.

We opened the flood gates for every little girl where they can walk. And be safe and protected instead of disrespect, rejected and raped by people who were supposed to be there for them. I pray that she knows none of the pains in which I, as a woman have had to endure because we should be the last ones.

I pray that she gets to walk on golden like bricks and, mm. Ever knows anything but joy for her. And I've told her that before and my goddaughter, my other goddaughter is coming to visit me this week. And you know, these were little girls who got dropped off by my stands by their parents. And some of them, their dads would just go, this is what a real black woman looks like in an entrepreneur.

And they started their business. It's my other little goddaughter now she's in her twenties, 24, right? He came in and all my clients are in there and they're like, oh, we want to buy in advance the guys. She looked at me and she said, no, I'm buying a van. She said, that's where you pulled us to the side and made us women and made us go.

People will not argue in public. You will not disrespect yourself or anybody else out here. We're going to figure this out. I will show you how to battle and be mad because people don't understand that you have a right and you shouldn't be picked with, I will show you how to protect yourself, but we will not disrespect us.

I want them, I want them to constantly know that every woman was ever had to stand on her own for self up by the bootstraps, you know, put everything in a perspective. I did it not just for me. I did it for you because at 60, I do not want to be sitting in a room and somebody disrespect him again, lady.

And at 60, I got to get up and go say something. These days should be in the buckets. If men do not know how to conduct themselves around women, you probably shouldn't work around. Period. If you do not know that you came from a woman, then you probably shouldn't have one period. If you can't get over the fact that not everybody was perfect.

And half of the people didn't know what they were doing, you probably.

I hope that we can give them everything, everything, every starring role, every center at a stage, I hope that she is Misty Copeland. I hope she has the presence of Lena Horne. I hope they're endowed with the greatest gifts of knowledge. I hope that thought and emo tap and everybody touched their grace from, from here on out.

I want them to be able to live a full life and not die from exhaustion, racism, fear. I want her to know what it's like to be a human being and not marginalized by color or financials or this, that and the third. And if I get my way, I want to make sure they get a big coin before I go. Then when you got a nice little trust fund, one day.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Quest Skinner. To learn more about her art visit Quest Skinner dot com.

Please visit The Passionistas Project dot com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women-owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. Get a FREE mystery box with a one-year subscription with the code FALLMYSTERY.

And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don’t miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.

Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.

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Katie Chin is a celebrity chef, award-winning cookbook author, spokesperson, food blogger and the Culinary Ambassador to the National Pediatric Cancer Foundation. Katie has had a cooking show called “Double Happiness” with her mother Leeann, has appeared on TV shows like “The Real” and “The Today Show,” and written five cookbooks including her latest — “Katie Chin's Global Family Cookbook” filled with internationally-inspired recipes your friends and family will love.   

Read more about Katie Chin.

Learn more about The Passionistas Project.

Full Transcript:

Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. And today we're talking with Katie Chin, a celebrity chef award-winning cookbook, author spokesperson, food blogger, and the culinary ambassador to the National Pediatric Cancer Foundation.

Katie has had a cooking show called "Double Happiness" with her mother Leeann, has appeared on TV shows like "The Real" and "The Today Show" and written five cookbooks, including her latest "Katie Chin's Global Family Cookbook" filled with internationally inspired recipes your family and friends will love. So please welcome to the show Katie Chin.

Katie: Hi everyone.

Passionistas: Thanks so much for being here today, Katie, we're thrilled to have you. What's the one thing you're most passionate about?

Katie: The one thing I'm most passionate about is honoring my mother's culinary legacy, because everything I know about life in cooking, I learned in the kitchen from her.

Passionistas: Talk about how you came to that place, where you wanted to honor her legacy through food.

Katie: We have to go all the way back to 1956. When my mother immigrated from China, from Guan Jo China, to Minneapolis, Minnesota of all places, she didn't speak any English. She was making 50 cents an hour as a senior. But she always loved to cook. She couldn't even find fresh ginger at the market at the time, but she improvised. She grew bok choy in our garden and somehow whipped up these gourmet Chinese stir fries.

Even though our family had no money. One day, she decided to throw a luncheon for some sewing clients in the 1970s. And they were blown away by her cuisine because back in the day, they only had to chop suey each domain and they had never tasted authentic Chinese cooking. So, they encouraged her to start teaching classes to cater.

And one thing led to another, she became very popular as a caterer, but bear in mind, she didn't even have a car. She had to take the bus. Okay. But her popularity continued to soar. And one day she hooked up with a socialite and the socialite wanted to open a restaurant with my mother. So, the socialite happened to be friends with the owner of the Minnesota twins and the owner of the Minnesota twins was friends with Sean Connery.

What like that's crazy. So, what happened is Robert Redford was in town, directing ordinary people in Minneapolis and Sean Connery came to visit. And somebody threw a party and my mom was catering it. So, both Robert Redford and Sean Connery were at this party and I served them dumplings. Okay. I was a little girl, but I served the dump legs and my knees were buckling and I'm like, ah, anyway, Sean Connery decides to invest in my mom's restaurant too, which is unbelievable right in Minneapolis.

Oh my God. And so, once word got out that Sean Connery w seven was investing in my mom's restaurant. There were lines around the block and it was quite a quite elegant restaurant. She opened more and more restaurants. Now I'm in high school at the time. And I barely saw my mom. She literally was sleeping on the cats.

She worked so hard, but she opened more restaurants and more restaurants. And by the late eighties, my mother had over 30 years. So general mills, uh, bought my mother's company and made her head of this division, this restaurant division at general mills. Now bear in mind. My mother never even went to high school and had been making 50 cents an hour as a senior.

So, it was a remarkable story, really, for anybody, any woman, any minority, but really anyone with a dream, but she was also quite philanthropic. She served on several boards. She was on the board of the Minnesota Vikings and the Minnesota twins, but had never even been to a game. She spoke on the steps of the white house.

She met the Clintons, just unbelievable, but she became this huge star. Anyway, she ended up buying it back cause she didn't like what they were doing to her food. And she went on to create a chain with over 50 locations, which still exists. Our family's not affiliated anymore, but it's called Leeann Chin.

Okay. So, I grew up working in my mom's catering business in our tiny basement in Minnesota. And while all the other kids for ice skating or at the mall, we were frying chicken pieces gritting our teeth, but we knew something magical was happening to her. I just vowed to never work in the food business and to get the hell out of Minnesota, it was freezing cold, no offense to Norwegians or Swedish people, but there was, it was not diverse at the time.

We were like the only Asian family for miles. So anyway, I left, I went to school in Boston. You guys, I went to BU actually, and then I moved to LA and worked in the entertainment industry for 14 years. And I was just so busy if I had forgotten how to cook. And while I thought I was making my mother proud.

I had actually done the opposite because I had forgotten how to cook. And I think because in so many Chinese American families, you're supposed to become a doctor, a lawyer, a professor, and all my siblings are those things. And I did something that was so radically different. It forced me to work even harder to be successful.

So, they wouldn't worry about me, even though they had no idea what I did. So anyway, long story short, I decided to throw a dinner party one night. I kept calling my mom asking her questions because I forgot how to do everything. And she was like, this is ridiculous.

So, she got on a plane with frozen lemon chicken.

She showed up on my doorstep. She cooked the whole meal, but she let everyone think that I had cooked it because she was just that kind of mom. So meanwhile, she opened my fridge and found only champagne and yogurt, completely mortified. And she set out to teach me how to cook again. So, she kept flying to LA and teaching me and my friends how to cook.

And they're like, oh my God, you guys make this look so easy. You should do a book together. And I was like, we should do a book together. So, I got us a book deal, but then I realized that I was lacking. Passion and meaning in my life, even though my career was very good to me, I was in a very unhappy marriage.

So, I just decided to completely change my life. And I quit my job as a senior VP at Fox. And I left my husband on the same month. Now I don't recommend doing all those things in one month's time, but first of all, I didn't have kids. So, I felt like I had the luxury to do so. And I also felt like, if not now, then when like life is social.

So, I just did a complete 180 and she and I came together. We did the book together. We had a catering business together called double happiness. We had a show on PBS together called double happiness as well, which was a mother daughter cultural cooking show, but she hated to be on TV. So, she really focused on the cooking.

So, I had to do most of the talking, so I'd go. Okay. So, if you don't have Asian hot sauce, you could use Mexican hot sauce right now and she'd go. No. So she was hilarious without trying to be hilarious. She was totally the straight man, but so funny and charming because of it. But anyway, we had lots of wonderful culinary adventures together, going to China for the food network and going on the today show a bunch of times it was truly a gift because finally coming together as adults, she opened up to me and told me a lot about her life in China and all of the hardships she endured.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about your entertainment industry career. What did you do? And did you have a passion for it in the beginning?

Katie: I just fell into it. I wanted to move to New York city and work in advertising like that girl. That was my dream. I wanted to be Marla Thomas, but what happened is I was, my boyfriend went to school at brown.

So, I was working at a radio station and Providence, and the Warner brothers rep walked in. And we started chatting and being from Minneapolis, I didn't know anything about the entertainment industry. So, he was like, oh yeah, I represent Warner brothers and bubble lives. Like, why don't you comment for me?

And I'm like, what people get paid to do that. So anyway, I was the on-campus rep for Warner brothers, and then I moved to LA and I do, you know, Nancy Kirkpatrick, Amy? Yes. Yeah. So Nancy was my boss when I worked for Warner brothers in college. And then she got me a job at a PR firm called climate Feldman, which became climate and white.

So, I worked in PR when I first moved to LA, but then I realized PR wasn't really, for me, I'm more of a promotions person. So, then I went to Orion and I was a consultant, but I didn't drive to take [the bus and cabs and I lied and said, I could drive. You do what you gotta do. So then from a Ryan, I went to Disney.

And then I was a manager of national promotions, and then I set up a college internship program, much like the one I participated in at Warner brothers for Disney flew all over the country, hiring interns. What a great job when you're like 25. Oh my God. So much fun. Then I got promoted and worked in national promotions at Disney.

Then I left and went to Fox when I was a director of TV promotions. There. Then I got promoted. Well, see, I never wanted to stay in it. I didn't ever want, I didn't want it to move to New York. I didn't want to stay in LA and I'm on my third marriage. My life is an open book. I'm just going to tell you everything.

So it was, I got married when I was 23, which is really idiotic and then he was gay. So we got divorced obviously. And so, I was going to move to New York, but I was just kept getting promoted and I'm like, why don't I keep getting promoted anyway. So, then I became a senior VP of synergy. When I was like 29.

And then I ended up moving back to Minneapolis to run my mom's company for a year, which was a mistake. I won't go into that, but I came back and where she worked at universal rose had a promotion there. Then I went to an agency. Then I went back to Fox and that was my last studio job.

Passionistas: So you must've been ready for a change when that moment came in your life, because those are exhausting jobs. None of those jobs are nine to five jobs.

Katie: It's one thing. If you're very passionate about your career and you have this incredible, uh, stress in your life, but when you feel dispassionate and there's that incredible stress, it really is harmful to your body, your mind, body, and soul. And I felt like it just wasn't worth it.

It just, it was very hard to face the studio. Exactly. Chairman of the studio, the unbelievable pressure that you're under people don't realize you guys do. And that feeling in your pit of your stomach. So, I was just like, I just saw this as like a chance to escape. I really felt like I needed to escape my life, but being like the good Chinese American girl, that I was, everything looked perfect on paper that was really living a lie because I wasn't feeling passionate about my career, but then also was not happy in my marriage.

So, I just feel so lucky that a lot of people don't have the luxury to escape their circumstances.

Passionistas: Let's talk about that moment where your mom flew out and helped you with the party. What did that mean to you that she did that. And how did that really start to trigger this renewed interest in food?

Katie: I was surprised that she did it, but then she was so amazing in that way.

Like it was amusing to me that she did it and I of course wanted to bring her out into the dining room. She was, and it was about saving face is very important in Chinese culture. And I think she was just like, I don't want them to think that you can't cook. So, you just do that. I would have stay back here.

A lot of Chinese people express their love in interesting ways, non-Western way. If I did well in school, she would make a special dish. You would get a whole steamed fish and black bean sauce. If I came home with all BS, I get pork. Tell me if I got a promotion at work, she would, her secretary would send me a product purse typed by the secretary to Katie, from mom.

Congratulations. It was no love. Proud of you. Love you anything. So very subtle actions of love. So ,coming out to do that was an expression of love. My renewed interest in cooking really came more from at first it was my business acumen because my friends were reacting to this. You guys are such a cute team.

You make such a great team. You two together, you could really do some great stuff together. You should do a book. You know what I'm saying? I started to see a mother daughter culinary brand. That's the first thing I saw it, wasn't conscious to me. Wow. I can really now get to know my mom. I was like, Ooh, this is cool.

This is like a giant big mound of putty and I'm going to shape it and I'm going to build this brand. It's going to be great. So, in the beginning, I wasn't really that into the food part. I was like front of the house. I'm going to get us gigs on TV. I'm going to develop a series. And so what ended up happening is my mother was doing most of the work and I was the front man.

And so, this went on for a while and my mother was very wise and she, after we had our catering business for a couple of years, she announced that she was going to Europe with her friend, Denise for three months. But we had all these catering gigs lined up and I was like, what? Huh? What are you talking about about it?

So, she left me to my own devices cause she knew it was the only way I was gonna. So, I figured it out and I added some things. Like I modernize some of the recipes and then she came back with, she didn't like it because I changed a couple of things that we got it. We only had two fights because she passed away.

About 13 years ago. One was, I changed an at a mommy recipe and I used to Haney instead of peanut butter, she got mad and drove away. Very passive, aggressive. Didn't really say anything. She's like Chinese peanut butter always best gets in the car. Yeah. Another time right before we went on the today show for the first time with Ann Curry for Chinese New Year.

So, it's customary to serve a whole fish to symbolize abundance because the word for abundance in Chinese is in hominine abundance means fishermen's abundance, but also a whole chicken with the beak and the tail, the head in the beacon, the tail to symbolize unity, family unity, and a favorable started finish.

So, my moms, you have to have a whole chicken on the set. Mother, we cannot show a whole chicken with the head and the feed and everything on national television. And then she, we were staying with my sister at San Francisco and I'll never forget. She slammed… my mother never slammed the door. Like she was just raised in such a way that she wasn't allowed to scream or be aggressive or violent in any way, but she slammed the door.

I slammed the door. And then my sister Jeanie was like, and I know what she was thinking. She was like, how could I have raised such a white daughter, such a why low. That means that white ghost, that's a derogatory term against white people. How could I have raised such a white daughter in her mind? Sure.

That's what she was thinking. Anyway, I went out because we got on the conference call with the producer and I was like, I'm just wondering, we typically show a whole chicken and the producers. We cannot show that on national television. And I wasn't like, yeah, I won or anything like that. I was like, in my heart, I knew I was right.

So, it was just interesting dynamic, but it was for the most part, very respectful. And like I said, the biggest gift is in those quiet moments when we were cooking together, she would open up and talk to me more like a friend. And tell me about my God being in an arranged marriage, meeting your husband 10 minutes before you get married to them.

So many crazy things that happened to her.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about your first television show together.

Katie: It was called "Double Happiness." it was on PBS and because of my marketing background, I, and I just wanted to, you know, say this because a lot of people, particularly when they decide to begin, become an entrepreneur and to pivot and try something new, it's scary.

They don't know how they don't know what to do, where to turn. And I think you just have to grow some balls sometimes and just ask for things. And then what's the worst thing that can happen. A person rejects you or they say, no, you're not going to die. You just move on. So, I was like trying to figure out the best distribution channel for us.

We had pitched Food Network, they passed. They didn't think a Asian show would fly, which I think is ridiculous. But I was like, PBS seems like. Starting point. So, I just did some research and I found a producer based in Hawaii on the internet. She had produced a Roy Yamaguchi show and Charlie Trotter show.

So, I just found her number and called her up and I was like, Hey, my name's Katie. My mom was his famous chef owned a restaurant chain. I'm coming to Hawaii. Do you want to get together for coffee? And she said, yes. So sometimes it's as simple as that. So, I think sometimes just the stars aligned. Oprah said luck is when preparation meets opportunity.

And I think it is so true. So anyway, she had gotten Kikkoman to fund Roy Yamaguchi. She still had a contact there. So, they happened to have money left in their budget. They needed to spend. So, this rarely happens in a life, but we basically made the phone call and had the funding. In two weeks. We worked closely together.

We shot 13 episodes in 10 days, time in Hawaii, which was fantastic. And it was challenging because I had never done TV before. And as, as you guys know, like getting up and doing a PowerPoint presentation for a bunch of executives is one. Being on television with your mom who doesn't like to say anything is another thing.

I actually tricked my mom and forced her to train with my acting coach, but I told her we were going to get manicures and we pulled up to his house. She's like, where are we? I go, we're not getting manicures. We're trading with my, I take killers.

So, we go and he was adorable. My acting coach was a lot like Billy crystal, like his personality, very warm and loving and so funny, but we're working with him and he's like, okay, Leanne. So, you know, what you're making right now is three ingredients. So, you can't keep your head down. It's a pretty easy recipe.

You got to look up, you got to look up. Okay. And then as I've mentioned, my mother never really touched me or said, I love you. We just, she wasn't raised to hug. So, at the end of our first trial segment, he was like, yeah, got to put your arm around your daughter. At the end of the sec, she looked at me, she goes, do I have it?

It was challenging for me and learning how to do TV. Isn't really something you can practice. You can try, you can work with a media coach, particularly live TV. You can't get better at it unless you're actually doing it. So, I'll say it was hard in the beginning and then we had a blast doing it. And honestly, cause I'm working on the solo show.

I hadn't looked at any of the footage because it's just too painful. So, I'm planning to incorporate some of it. I've been watching some of the clips. This was years ago. We did this in 2004. It's been many years, but it's very difficult to watch and not get emotional.

Passionistas: [We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Katie Chin. Check out her blog filled with delicious recipes and get a copy of her latest book "Katie Chin's Global Family Cookbook" at chefkatiechin.com.

And look for Katie during the 2021 Passionistas Project Women's Equality Summit being held virtually on August 20th through August 22nd. Katie is taking part in the AAPI panel called Kitchen Table Talk and the AAPI Community on Sunday, August 22nd at 2:00 PM. Pacific 5:00 PM Eastern. Later that evening, we will present The Passionistas Persist Awards to Margaret Cho and Dr. Jane Goodall. Our producing partner, Selena Luna will have an intimate conversation with Margaret Cho and we'll chat with our hero, Dr. Jane Goodall. For details, go to ThePassionistasProject.com/2021summit. Now here's more of our interview with Katie.

You've written five cookbooks. So, tell us a little bit about where you draw inspiration from when you're writing a cookbook and what that process is like.

Katie: The first book I did with my mom and all honesty. She did most of it because of my, I told you I was still actually working at box and then she had passed away. So, I had to really not rely on her platform or her name. And so, the next book I did was 300 best rice cooker recipes. And I had to test 300 recipes in different rice cookers.

So, I had all these different testers coming in and out. What I draw my inspiration from travel. Cause I've been fortunate. I've traveled to many different countries. Most of my friends happen to be children of immigrants. I think we just birds of a feather. So, I've been so privy to so many wonderful meals cooked for me by my friend's parents.

And eating out just pre COVID, obviously, and also pre- I have 13 year old twins now, but so I didn't eat out a lot when they were younger and LA were so, you know, fortunate, cause there's so many awesome restaurants and such a diversity of exciting food and so many different mashups happening. I just try to draw inspiration mainly from my friends and their parents.

Also, what I see on TV and I just try. Also, as a mom more recently. So, my most recent cookbook, the Global Flavors cookbook, I think because kids have grown up watching the Food Network, watching Top Chef, making food on TikTok, their parents being able to travel, being able to take their kids to foreign countries.

I think today's families in the US have a much more open and sophisticated palette than our generation. And whereas back in the day, if you went to a mini mall, oftentimes you just find pizza and donuts. Now you're likely to find Pokemon or an empanada shop. I just felt like people wanted a resource to replicate some of those flavors at home in an easy way, not requiring a million trips to an ethnic market using their everyday pots and pants. So, I'm always, I love to eat. I'm here in Vegas right now.

Passionistas: You did a special for the Food Network and then you traveled to China with your mom. Can you tell us about that experience and what was it like going there with her and experiencing that?

Katie: It was really awesome to be able to go back to not only been to China a couple of times, but wow. To meet her family and because of the cultural revolution, you know, she didn't see her family for 30 years.

So, I can't speak Chinese, which made it challenging obviously. And they would just start laughing at me and I know enough to say hello, how are you? Nice to meet you. But they would just point at me and laugh at me, but this is one of the most memorable parts of the trip.

So, we were tending to celebrate my mother's birthday at her brother's apartment and her family in particular. And I think this is quite common in China. The purpose of sitting down to eat is to eat, not to speak. Like, you're not like having conversations. You're just eating the point is to eat, not to make like chat.

So, the producer who happened to be Chinese American, she was like, okay. And there's like a whole pig. They're like, it's like a big, huge banquet of food. And there's probably 14 of us around the table. She said, it's really important that when the cameras start rolling, but you guys are really gregarious talking about the food, cooking your glasses.

So, I go over to my mom. I'm like, mom, they want us to sip of a, I go, can you tell them to do that? And she goes, oh, they're not going to do that. I was like, okay. So, I go back to the producer. I'm like, you really not are equipped. They're not capable of doing that. She was like, okay, that's fine. But if they can just look excited and clink their glasses without talking, you do the toast, they click their glasses and then they dig into the food gregarious.

I'm like, okay, I think they can handle it. My mom tells them that. Between how to sign. I'm like, okay, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're here to celebrate somebody translating. And then I do the toast and then they all sit there like this. Cause you can you imagine how bizarre and foreign all these cameras are rolling.

And they're just like that. So that was pretty funny. Then we went to the world's largest floating Dim Sum restaurant it's called Jumbo in Hong Kong. And we're back in the kitchen with the dumpling master. He's teaching me how to make the delicate fold on the hard gal in the kitchen was rolling. He's teaching me, my mom, mom says, why are you so slow?

But it was always out of love. That was like, thanks mom, but so wonderful. Full to be there with her. And also, again, just being there, she told me a story while we were there. That after world war II, the Japanese mafia were still threatening. A lot of the neighborhoods there that if they didn't get, get paid off, they would bomb different communities.

So, my mother's father owned a grocery store. She was 12 at the time and my mother was a tomboy. So, she would deliver 50 pound bags of rice in the back of her bike. She was really a master of the Abacus. So, she had all these skills, but because she was like a tomboy, she had the least value. So the Japanese threatened to bomb and I guess her family and a bunch of the neighbors decided to leave just in case they bombed, but they didn't tell my mom.

So, my mom came home from school and realized everyone had evacuated except for a couple of the employees. And I said, oh, the family decided to go to another village in case the Japanese bomb. And she realized in that moment that she had been left behind to die, but they needed somebody to stay behind just in case they didn't.

So, she was there, she told me, eating dinner with the employees by candlelight she'd play Mahjong with them. And the day she would restock the inventory of the canned goods, things like that. And then three weeks later, her family came back, but they didn't even acknowledge what happened. She woke up and she said, her mom just said, get your other sisters ready for school again.

So, she did that. But in that moment, she realized her life had no value in the family. And I think that's what really motivated her to work hard, to not look back to overcome. And so, her way, her survival system was all about push your feelings down, move forward and be efficient. So, we all inherited a bit of that, but through therapy, my brothers and sisters,because that's not healthy either, but she did say because my father was also emotionally abusive. If your daddy had been a supportive husband, I probably would never have done all these, all of these things because she was raised to be a contented housewife and just cook and clean and raise children.

But I think that's just who she was as well. Like glass half full. I'm just gonna look at this as a gift, like in a way I would never have done all of this. He was the person that he was.

Passionistas: What did you personally take away from hearing that story? Did it affect you moving forward?

Katie: I think I had a lot more, I think respect for my mother, even though I was a full adult by that time, I think I, I had to grow up a little bit too, instead of relying on her, to do everything, spending so much time with her during this period and learning about that.

Cause she was a person that never complained. She just never complained about it. And she rarely had a bad thing to say about people, too. I think she really taught me also coming out of the entertainment industry, the gossipy and complainy, it's both those things. So, I think it really helped me to understand her a little bit more.

Like when I got divorced second time, you know, she picked me up from the airport, you know, and I was crying and she was like, you know, you should really not cry so much. It's inefficient. I was like inefficient, but I realized she couldn't help. It that's, she would never have survived unless she had that attitude.

So, I try to have some compassion for that, but also important for me to break the cycle for my own children, because I don't want my daughter to think it's okay to go around life, not crying cause it's inefficient. Right? The not complaining part. That's something I'm really trying to it's not doing successfully that way.

Passionistas: So speaking of your, your children and especially your daughter, you've carried on the tradition of filming, cooking shows with relatives. So, tell us about what you did during the pandemic with your daughter.

Katie: So I have a catering business called Wok Star Catering, and I obviously had to pivot and we have a home in Lake Arrowhead. So, we decided to skip town for about seven months. So, when it started, I was so bored cause I had to get bored easily. I just thought, oh, why don't we do a live streaming cooking show? I had done a few here and there with some friends. I mean, she's pretty, gung-ho about things, so she's okay. And it just started out something to do and something to get some friends involved and have guests on the show via Zoom.

And so, we started doing it three times a week, and then we got sponsors. Then we got all these people interested in being on the show and it became a thing and we have a pretty loyal following and we have friends helping us out, like all him straight. And my brother now is actually part of the crew, too.

So, it just became so fun for her and I did it to do together. And what was so beautiful for me was to watch her evolution being on camera because she's a dancer. So, she's used to performing, but in the beginning, she was pretty shy and then she just, I don't know, large and in charge and. My husband just pointed out in the show with your mom, she would criticize you and correct you the whole show.

And now my daughter does that to me. So, I just can't get your break. I get it. I got it for both EDS because Beck is very like type a, I think she'll be a producer. Not necessarily like on-camera talent. She's just very, don't forget to do this, mommy. And don't forget to do that. Mommy, you didn't add the soy sauce.

Talk about the giveaways. It's been really fun because she now takes charge. Like I intentionally try to remember during the show to just turn it over to her, Becca, take it away, tell everybody what to do next. And I also think this generation of kids doing TikTok and growing up, being on YouTube, they're not as self-conscious about being on camera has been really great.

And she has all these fans, like people just want to see Baca. This complete stranger was like the nibbler, Becca is the nibbler. Cause she's always taking bites of food. She doesn't realize she's doing it. This has become a thing, hashtag the nibbler. And we actually have merchandise that says Hashi, the nibbler that we're selling and also a Becca rocks.

That's been just so really a lot of fun and adorable to do. And then since then she joins me when I do these monthly TV segments for bloom TV, for national pediatric cancer. So, we cook along with a pediatric cancer warrior along with the host of the show. And also trying to teach her about philanthropy [and it's just a great way to do it. And also to build her confidence.

Passionistas: Do you think you have a particular trait that has helped you succeed?

Katie: My friends have said this. I do think I have.  like, I, I really try to see the good in people and I really try to have fun. And I think that what has really been helpful to me are my friendships with other women.

And the network of women that I felt because a favorite quote of mine is for every successful female entrepreneur entrepreneurs, there's five other successful female entrepreneurs that have her back. And I think that there's a stereotype of successful women being bitches and too aggressive. And I've found that to be not the case, maybe once in a blue moon, but most of the women that I encounter that are entrepreneurs or even in my career, really just try to help each other out. So ,during COVID, what happened is a friend of mine and I, she runs a PR firm. We decided to start a virtual women's game night and it was just like a handful of us. So, we were playing Taboo on Zoom, but all of a sudden this magical thing happened more and more women started to join this chat.

And very few of them actually played the game. It became a drawing game, but it became this community of women in this chat, sharing advice, lifting each other. Cheerleading. Like I would see something, this might she's on the chat. She's a documentarian just saw that she was doing a fireside chat. I put it in the chat.

Then everybody started to do that for each other political commentary. Where are we on my eyebrows plug? Like everything under the sun. And as a result, I can't tell you how many of these women have gone on each other's podcasts, become friends. Lifting each other up. And we finally, and so many of them hadn't actually met in person.

We finally had to get together two weeks ago, you guys are going to have to join. We hired a DJ, we dance for five hours straight. It was so phenomenal, but the whole point wasn't to let's network and see what business comes of it. But it just all happened so organically in that. And I think I'm just really proud of how did that I didn't set out to, for that to happen, but it did happen and it continues to grow and it's just been so fulfilling for me.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Katie Chin. Check out her blog, filled with delicious recipes and get a copy of her latest book "Katie Chin's Global Family Cookbook" at chefkatiechin.com.

Please visit ThePassionistasProject.Com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passion. Sign up for our mailing list and get 10% off your first purchase.

And get your tickets now for the 2021 Passionistas Project Women's Equality Summit featuring Katie Chin on the Kitchen Table Talk in the AAPI Community panel on Sunday, August 22nd [00:34:00] at 2:00 PM/pacific 5:00 PM and The Passionistas Persist Awards featuring Margaret Cho and Dr. Jane Goodall on Sunday, August 22nd at 5:00 PM/pacific 8:00 PM. Eastern. For details, go to the ThePassionistasProject.com/2021Summit.

And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast, so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.

Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.

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Bethany Halbreich is an innovation consultant, the President and Founder of Incipe Insight and the Founder of Paint the World. This global, collaborative art project is dedicated to inspiring creative expression in individuals, organizations and communities by providing collaborative artistic experiences that enable participants to spontaneously engage their creative minds. Paint the World does this by securing large blank canvases and art supplies in low-income communities around the world that otherwise have little or no access to art education. It’s a simple idea with a lot of potential.

Read more about Paint The World.

Learn more about The Passionistas Project.

Full Transcript:

Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking with Bethany Halbreich, an innovation consultant, the president of Incipe and the founder of Paint the World. This global collaborative art project is dedicated to inspire a creative expression in individuals, organizations and communities by providing collaborative artistic experiences that enable participants to spontaneously engaged a creative minds. Paint the World does this by securing large blank canvases and art supplies in low-income communities around the world that otherwise have little or no access to art education. It's a simple idea with a lot of potential. So please welcome to the show Bethany Halbreich.

Bethany: It is my honor to be here and speak with you, too.

Passionistas: What is the one thing you're most passionate about?

Bethany: That is a very easy question for me because I feel like the crazy canvas lady, sometimes I, everywhere I go, I carry around blank canvases. So it's wild that I don't have one sitting here with me right now, but I am the most passionate about providing the tools for others to create. And my vehicle of doing that is Paint the World. So I am most passionate about what I get to work on every day.

Passionistas: So tell us about Paint the World. How did you come up with the idea and what is it?

Bethany: The idea emerged by accident five or six years ago, because I was with a bunch of just a few good friends actually in the middle of the woods in a cabin and are well on our way to the cabin we needed to come up with some fun activities to do during our time together. So we just went to an art store and got a canvas and some supplies and then thought it would be a fun thing to collaborate on the canvas together. And these are really fun friends that I have. They're always encouraging creativity and they're just wonderful.

That's what we did. And then I was just really shocked by how beautiful the canvas turned out. So later that summer I did the same thing in a couple of different places. Usually when I'm by a canvas I'm very much an observer. I don't encourage other people to paint on the canvas.

I leave it there and I see what happens because in my mind, Yeah, just in doing this for years. It's very obvious that there's several stages to the canvas. There's the blank canvas. And this is usually when it's the most intimidating to people and people usually are a little bit confused.

Is this a, is this an installation? Is this meant to be painted on? Is this just what is going on here is an artist going to be using this later and they just left it here. Do we touch it? So anyway, I always find that stage of the canvas really interesting. And then someone always comes along and just finds the boldness in themselves.

Usually they're with a group of people. Sometimes it's an individual, but they find the boldness in themselves and they pick up the one of the paint brushes and they paint.  And then after that, slowly, the canvas begins to be filled up, but it actually looks pretty bad in the beginning.  There could be a sun in the corner.

There could be a stick figure in the middle of somewhere and because it looks so bad And I don't mean to put the judgment on it, but it's good that it looks bad in my mind because it encourages people who wouldn't define themselves as artists to actually paint on it.

And if it looks amazing, they wouldn't. That's the most magical part of the whole thing to me, because there've been so many people who have picked up a paintbrush and done some sort of contribution on these blank canvases that have never picked up a paint brush before.

Hundreds of people have done this and it is their first time picking up a paintbrush. That's wild to me. And it's usually those people who had impacts the most and it's always just blown me away and they always turn out so beautifully in the end because after they begin to be filled up over time, I usually leave them in a particular location for around 24 hours sometimes just during the day, so around eight hours but they always tell a story of that community vision. They, if you look at it, they visually feels like that community. It's amazing. So that's where I started to bring in some union analysts and there's a whole other part of the project. They're really understanding the community through the art that the community gathers to create.

But that's Paint the World and over the last five or six years, even though it started out as an experiment it quickly became clear that this needed to be a bigger project than just something I, did every now and then for fun. So it's an now it's a nonprofit and it's growing.

Passionistas: That first person who comes and paints I don't know how often you see that moment, but did they tend to paint in the middle of the canvas or did they pick a good corner?

Bethany: It actually varies and  it depends on how confident that person is feeling, and you could tell when a person is unsure they, they, usually start in the corner, but the person who does contribute to the canvas first, they tend to be bold. They tend to be confident. And then it's only after them that the people who haven't picked up a paint brush before contribute to it.

But so usually actually it is in the middle because they're more competent people are feeling more creatively, confident in that moment. And that's interesting, cause I really does define, it takes the piece in, on a path. That first move is it's so important.

Passionistas: So how do you get to know the people. Did someone interview them afterwards?  What's that process.

Bethany: It's certainly been a bit of a challenge over the past five or six years to position the nonprofit as it is because it's neither an art program or a public installation.

It's a mix of the two. And if it were more of an art program there would certainly be an element to it where I would interview people and, there, we might do a workshop around it and stuff like that, but, and also there could be an element to that if it were public installation, but I just am so committed to it, taking on a life of its own.

The only thing that I've gotten close to in that realm is just pretending to be a an onlooker. And so sometimes I walk by and I'm like looking at it and I act confused and I noticed someone else's standing there and I say, Hey, do you what's this, I just pretend to be in their shoes, but I've done that a lot.

Yeah. And I've gotten to in the beginning, I think I asked  more direct questions and there were actually a couple of people who said you need to who figured out who I was and who said or who figured out what role I play in the installation, but who has, who have said, you have to do this everywhere. This should be in more places. And there were people who really inspired it to grow at that stage.

Passionistas: Have you set up like little GoPro cameras to capture that?

Bethany: There have been a couple of times that I've done that, but believe it or not, I haven't found a GoPro locking system with a key. Someone should make it, I can't find it anywhere.

Maybe someone's made it in the last few months and I haven't noticed, but but yeah, that's also another, that's a challenge cause I usually just leave them. And but yeah, that would be ideal to do time lapses of all of them.

Passionistas: How many cities have you done this in so far?

Bethany: About 35, thus far there've been a lot of repeat canvases in the same city. And we hit the most cities when I did something called the Mongol rally. Have you heard of the Mongo rally? It's it's this crazy drive from Prague to Mongolia and that through that drive we passed 23 countries and so I did a blank canvas and in 12 or 13 of those countries, and that was really fun. So that probably up to the country count,

But through the, actually the tiny home video I have a tiny home as well. And someone filmed a a YouTube video of it a little while ago, and it had so many views and the YouTube video was really just meant to be a tour of the tiny house.

But the videographer asked me some questions about what I do, and I told him about Paint the World. And he said, we have to include this. At least at the end, it has to be in there some somewhere I'm usually don't do this, but, and I was like, okay, great. That's awesome. Thank you so much. So I talked a little bit about it and the video ended up being 15 minutes long and I, and there was a two or three minute segment about Paint the World at the end.

And I thought, for sure, no one would watch a video of that length until the end. But I should believe in, I guess I should believe in YouTube viewers a little bit more in there. And their attention span because so many people watched until the end and then reached out after that. And that was a tipping point for Paint the World because before that the audience was really small.

It was just me trying to push this nonprofit forward. And now there's, there are people who reach out every day because of that video. And I'm so thankful for it. So now there are people all around the world that are launching blank canvases. We just started an ambassador program. And there was someone from Zanzibar who just emailed me this morning about doing a blank canvas and in her village there. And it's just the power of the internet.

Passionistas: So did people get their own supplies or do you send them supplies?

Bethany: So I've just created this community of ambassadors and I've connected them with a ton of resources. I've made a ambassador portal on the website.

So it basically has this really in-depth FAQ question, everything that I've found really useful throughout the years. Just basically examples of how you can set up which stores supply lists, stuff like that. We were going to use Go Fund Me Charity to set up separate team fundraisers for each of the ambassadors, but they unfortunately actually are discontinuing Go Fund Me Charity.

We're going to have to move to another platform, but the canvas setups are usually pretty cheap. Usually it, depending on where you're located definitely can do a big blank canvas for under a hundred dollars for a whole set up.

So yeah it's mostly just building the momentum, making sure that everyone isn't feeling like they're doing this alone because it's a bold activity. And it's not every day that you see someone putting a blank canvas in a community and just leaving it there for other people to do what they want on it. So it's a lot of community building and seeing where it takes us.

Passionistas: And now what happens with the paintings after they're completed?

Bethany: There are so many things that we can do with these paintings afterwards. In the past, I've held a little art auctions alongside restaurants in the area where the paintings were done. Usually the money that we raised just went back into doing more blank canvases. So it's a very cyclical thing. So each ambassador each location where we'll have link canvases, we'll probably end up doing something like that post COVID, hopefully. It's hard, you can never know.

The timing of the blank canvases has been delayed a little bit just because of the restrictions, but I hope that in the next couple of months we'll be able to get them popping up everywhere.

But the other thing about this project, it's a completely different aspect. So there's the benefit of the activity itself which is certainly increasing communities, creative confidence, increasing the agency that particular collective or community feels in moving their own ideas forward. And the canvas is just a tool but I really do believe there's a big connection there.

And then the other aspect of this is really, really understanding a community, working to understand the community through the art that that the community gathers to create. And there's so much literature on looking at mostly street art in communities and using that as a tool to understand that community's trajectory and there, there are so many communities in the world where the voice that seems to be the most prominent from that community is usually not the most accurate. Someone who might rise to power in a particular community might just be the one with the most money, but might not represent that what's really going on in the community.  So  using this art is a way to do that. So one of the larger goals and purposes behind paint the world is really to to navigate the relationship between art and community decision-making.

So to really make it obvious that investing in the arts is urgent and not just an extra activity as we often see it as, but I truly believe it's critical in progressing forward in a collective and a positive way.

It makes me so sad that the arts community feels so constrained. And usually, it's because the funding that's offered to the arts community puts you in buckets. It's either a program or an installation. It always focuses on artists, people who define themselves and artists. It's just wild to navigate government funding and all anyway. So my wish is for the art community to feel much less constrained than it does now. There's so much potential there.

Passionistas: You’re listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Bethany Halbreich. To learn more about her global, collaborative art project visit PaintTheWorld.com.

Save the Dates for the 2021 Passionistas Project Women’s Equality Summit, being held virtually this year on August 20 through August 22. For details go to ThePassionistasProject.com/2021 Summit.

Now here’s more of our interview with Bethany.

So how did COVID affect your project?

Bethany: The original program of Paint the World which is the, putting blank canvases up and and really scaling the the amount of blank canvases in the world that was tremendously impacted, obviously, because there was no encouraging of public activity safely. So public collaborative activity safely. About, I think that in April I started to get real, which isn't long. It only took me a month to get restless.

Yeah. And probably the beginning of April. So it really took me only two weeks. I was like, you gotta do something. So I rented a van and a white van, which was not a good idea because I learned that white vans are are usually not housing the most innocent of there were always police after me.

It was wild people reporting the white van. And that's another story, but I rented a white van. And I dropped I dropped blank canvases and supplies off at hospitals across the country. And so I drove to I drove to the west coast and back I started in New York and I went to about 30 actually in the end, I think it was closer to 40 because the project grew a bit but yeah, dropped off supplies at 40 hospitals and Was really pleasantly surprised, raised by the fact that the hospital staff that ended up it was the supplies were just for the staff members because I was just hearing that they were so overworked and obviously this is a, this is an activity that could bring stress relief.

And and also one that could help us understand what they're going through. But but the most responsive hospitals were actually the ones that were the busiest. That was amazing to see. And the ones that, that appreciated the project the most, like really saw and felt the the positive effects of it.

That was really, it was amazing. But that wouldn't have happened if it weren't for COVID obviously. And that, that, made me think of other avenues for Paint the World and men. We, didn't a virtual paint the world project as well. And that was fun because there were people from all, all around the world who participated in that and that idea might have not emerged if it weren't for COVID.

So despite the challenge in the beginning, towards the initial activity of the organization the mission has actually been expanded and and now it's much more global than it was a year and a half ago.

Passionistas: How did the virtual version work?

Bethany: Basically I got together a number of the people who reached out over the, since that YouTube video was actually released and we got together, had several zoom calls to talk about possibilities and they basically each ended up hosting their own version of Paint the World within their communities virtually.

But they all did different things with it, which was the intention. So the the woman that became involved in South Africa, she basically made a video of her completing an activity. Basically she did a handprint she used that as a metaphor too, because our hands are, the carriers of germs and we're like afraid of other people anyway.

So she did a hand print and then you had to write your COVID story. Each piece really looked like a multimedia masterpiece. It was beautiful. But then at the end of that, she combined all of them into the south African flag. Using the, basically just using color blocking.

And so she made the collaborative peace in the end. But each person had an individual experience.

Passionistas: I would love to see an exhibit of all of the pieces from the project in general, but specifically from the hospitals during COVID. Yeah, sure. Those are really powerful.

Bethany: The pieces that came out of the hospital project were really were light-filled. They were optimistic and the colors that were everyone gets the same colors which I think is important because then it's easier to see the contrast between what everyone does with them, but but the colors used were usually lighter tones, brighter, happier. The images were positive. And those were from the, usually from the busier hospitals.

Passionistas: Have you thought of doing a book?

Bethany: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Certainly a book of all of the pieces more of a coffee table book that you could just, browse through and see where the, where each piece came from.

But I'm also working with a few of the Jungian analysts that I've been speaking to about creating a book that's really focused on the. Potential impact of the arts in policy and in community. Decision-making because there's a huge disconnect there. And there actually isn't a lot of literature out there around it.

So it's been a challenge for me to find the evidence, even though I know it's, it's clear that this works and there is so much, there's so much benefit on multiple levels, but it's difficult. It's difficult to find  literature on it because not a lot of people have tackled that that relationship between between arts and really, community decision-making and policy and everything there's.

Anyway, we're working on that. That'll be cool that'll be a book.

Passionistas: So now how can people get involved?

Bethany: You can go to Paint the World.com and click the join tab. And there's a few options there, or you can, and you can follow the Instagram @gopainttheworld, or you can reach out to me directly @bethanyatpainttheworld.com and I would be so excited to speak with you about being involved.

Passionistas: So you've done other things that we want to talk to you about, too. So you have a company called Incipe Insights.  So what is that?

That is basically how I earned money to keep paint the world going. That's my day job and Paint the World, my life job.

But basically it's a it's a strategy and design innovation consulting company. It's a boutique consulting companies, so very small it's me and a team of right now, four other fabulous women. And basically we work with. Really interesting. We work with companies like PepsiCo and IBM, but also a lot of interesting startups on strategizing the most impactful path forward.

The reason why I started doing this was because there, there are great consulting companies like McKinsey and Deloitte and and all of those, but they are so expensive. And smaller organizations that don't have millions of dollars to spend on consultants. Don't have access to to that sort of strategy work.

And to me that's ridiculous because they're the ones that really need it to grow and to move forward and to make the impact that they need to make. So that's what we focus on. Incipe insights, basically a cheaper version of McKinsey or of those larger, but a much better version.

But but yeah, that the work that I do with Incipe I actually started from PepsiCo. Because I began the internal innovation expo alongside a really incredible man within PepsiCo, but we basically work together within R and D. So PepsiCo is a lot of different different departments, but but the food scientists within R and D weren't necessarily leading the innovation.

So we want to, it usually came from marketing. So we wanted to shift the shift, the innovation power really to, to R and D. And so we started this internal innovation expo to do that. And through that, I really learned so much about new product innovation and and what it takes to move products forward and to actually make an impact with them and use, the materials, the technology necessary, all of that. So that was a great, and that was what began Incipe Insights. So yeah, that's what I, that's what I do to to earn a living and and support, Paint the Worlds basically

What's one of your favorite success stories from Incipe?

Bethany: It's one kind of in the making right now. So I've been working on for the last couple of years with the University of Hawaii on building their Connor innovation program.

And that has been, that's been really fun because it's an academic culinary. That's basically bringing methods that these big companies use to. They're bringing those methods to their students and actually working with a lot of restaurants in the area I met on innovating in that way. They're open to having fun and they're open to experimenting.

They have a chocolate bar. It's so cool. This has all been virtual. So I, I only dream of experiencing all of this fun stuff that we've been working on, but but that will be, as I know, that will be a success. And that's the thing that I'm most excited about that Incipe Insights worked on.

Passionistas: Are you an artist yourself?

Bethany:] Oh, thanks for asking.  I paint and I do love to make art. I'm one of those people who believes everyone's artists obviously, but yeah. But yeah, it's something that when I do it, it's like my meditation, my version of meditating. I do have a website where you can see the art it's called awakened art.co. So a lot of animals and very colorful animals. It's what I enjoy painting the most.

Passionistas: What do you think is your best habit?

Bethany: Exercising on a daily basis is my best habit because it brings me so much energy. I would never say that I'm an athletic person. I've never felt like I was an athletic person. But I started doing at home workout videos and sanity, which is a kind of an OJI at home workout video with Sean T as the host.

And I just changed my life cause I, I feel I feel so much more energy. I don't diet. But I just move my body every day and I exercise and that keeps me in tune with my body. And there's such an incredible relation between the health of our body and the health of our minds and, while we're able to produce whether that's, with work or creatively.

Passionistas: So what's the most rewarding part of Paint the World for you?

Bethany: The most rewarding part of Paint the World is just seeing people paint on a canvas that have never painted before. I think that is the most mind-blowing thing. It just feels like I can't explain it. It gives me life. It's just such a beautiful thing to see that someone is creating and doing something that they wouldn't have been doing if you didn't just do it. This one bold move and go at it. Cause it's, it takes me out of my comfort zone sometimes to be carrying around a canvas and supplies. And I'm like, now I'm used to it actually, because I'm always the crazy canvas lady lugging all of this stuff around.  But that moment is what makes it all worth it.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Bethany Halbreich. To learn more her global, collaborative art project visit PaintTheWorld.com.

Please visit ThePassionistasProject.com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women-owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. Get a FREE mystery box with a one-year subscription with the code SUMMERMYSTERY.

And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don’t miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.

Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.

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Lorelle Miller is an award-winning artist who expresses a lifetime of developed technique and personal investigation in her works that comprise oils, pastel, marble sculpture and other mediums. Evidenced in her artwork is a unique sensitivity for mood and emotion, which offer a glance into the deeper wells of her experience. Lorelle shares her vision of natural beauty and the intensity of the human experience through her paintings, sculpture and street art. She utilizes a broad yet finally tuned spectrum of media, each of which contributes to her expression and visual art. 

Read ore about Lorelle

Learn more about The Passionistas Project.

Full Transcript:

Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas Project podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same.

We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking with Lorelle Miller, an award-winning artist who expresses a lifetime of develop technique and personal investigation in her works that comprise oils, pastel, marble sculpture, and other mediums. Evidenced in her artwork is a unique sensitivity for mood and emotion, which offer a glance into the deeper wells of her experience.

Lorelle shares her vision of natural beauty and the intensity of the human experience through her paintings, sculpture, and street art. She utilizes a broad yet finally tuned spectrum of media, each of which contributes to her expression and visual art. So please welcome to the show, Lorelle Miller.

Passionistas: What are you most passionate about?

Lorelle Miller: My strongest passion, and it may just be one thing, but it's basically, I love nature and my art. So those are probably the two things that I love and I'm most passionate about and feel happiest being involved with.

Passionistas: But it seems like you've managed to tie those two things together.

Lorelle: Yeah. I've always been somebody who loves to work outside. So a lot of my things that I do artistically, I'm happiest when I'm outdoors in nature or outside, I suppose.

Passionistas: Did you grow up in nature? What was your childhood like?

Lorelle: My main growing up years were just in the San Fernando valley, but I think I always took sort of, you know, I had sort of a, a calling towards being out in nature.

I used to backpack. Yeah. So camping and, and all of that sort of thing. And I'm an artist, you know, I've always loved to draw and paint. So I don't know. Nature's always been a kind of a soothing place for me, even as a little girl, you know, I'd find a hiding place up in a tree or something.

Passionistas: Were you always an artist?

Lorelle: It seems like I started, yeah, super young because of that back in the day of, you know, growing up, if there weren't all the electronics and stuff, when I was young. So, I guess I'm sort of mechanical. And also I like to draw. It started probably when I was like eight or nine years old.

Passionistas: Did you study art formally?

Lorelle: I went to Cal State Northridge and I have a bachelor's degree from there. And then, um, I started a master's degree there also, but that didn't finish because I ended up having children. Like that kinda got carried away and I've studied with many master artists after that, just on continuing education going on in various areas. And I've learned a lot just on the street, literally.

Passionistas: What do you mean by that?

Lorelle: Well, I'm a street painting artist, which is a nice segue, I suppose, I guess as a little kid, you know, one of the first mediums that I worked with was pastel. I mean, cause they're so forgiving actually. And I had a lot of private art lessons, luckily, cause my mom saw a lot of potential in what I did and I got a lot of accolades growing up in school. Like even in with meeting my friend, Gayle who nominated me for this, I used to be pulled out of my normal class to go into a special artist class — like for gifted kids. I did a lot of pastels at that time. And so, years later, you know, when the street painting idea came up, you know, there was something that came about in my community for that. It sort of seemed like a natural thing to try, kind of took off from there.

Passionistas: Tell everybody what street art is in case they don't know and how did you get started in that?

I've always done painting and drawing and sculpture and I wasn't in 3d sculpture before it was 3D, like on a computer. Yeah. You know, that sort of thing, but I always did pastels. And so I think I was judging an art contest for my local artists association. And I was, I still remember this sort of weird, we were all judging these like high school students paintings or whatever.

And I remember they mentioned this thing that they were having this event in the community called the Bellavia, which. Uh, street art. It was going to be a street painting or a street art festival. And I mean, street painting is something that's been going on since like the 1500s in Europe and so forth.

And I actually had seen a street painter. I went to Europe like three times before I was 20 years old by some miraculous manner. I don't know a lot of different circumstances that I actually saw street painter. But at this time when they were talking about this event, I thought, you know, I really ought to try it.

It just was like, it's like, I heard it. And it was just like, crystallized, like, you know, you really ought to try it. You just need to go see what this is about. Like, it rang in my head. It just like, you know, some things you just don't pay attention to, but it was like, yeah, I gotta see what this is. So they did this terrific event here in, I live in Santa Clarita and they had this event called the Bella.

And they invited these more experienced GE painters. And then, you know, other people were able to apply and so forth. So I applied and I, they, I got in to the street painting festival and I just started out with like a, I think a three by four foot square. And I was really nervous cause I had not really done that before.

Basically what street art is. You asked me to tell you what that is, is that you. Um, usually asphalt or like the street and you create artwork on the street that is, you know, either classical renditions or something that your system, original composition or whatever it is that you're doing. And people basically walk, can walk by and watch you create the art.

Because a lot of times when artists are working, they're in their studio. So this is a public art form. And then. They can watch you. And then, you know, when they, you take a break, you're down on the ground, they're above you looking down at it. And so when you stand up or take a break or something, you know, people can ask you questions and interact with you.

It's had a far reaching effect on my life. I got to tell you, so that's what it is, but that's where it started because I did this piece by Renoir called the dance of bocce ball. I think. I'd done it in oils. And I thought, well, I know this painting well, so I did this painting and then a scout, there was a talent scout going around and picked me up for another festival, which was down like towards Irvine.

And then it snowballed because I've traveled all around, doing this, barely traveled to festivals around the world.

 So what are some of the places that you've done work?

Lorelle: I've gone to Mexico to a place that's on the other side of the bay from Puerto Vallarta, it's a festival called Bucerias. And that was really neat because just the experience of being in a small town in Mexico and cross cultural types of things.

And we worked with children like children from the orphanage there. Teaching them about street painting. And then I went to Norway. Also. I have family in Norway and my sister-in-law. She had a friend who had an octillion in a little town called Harmar. And so she asked if I would come and produce a street painting for her  and expose the kids to street art in Norway.

And I actually had one circumstance. I went to a middle school in Norway and I did a demonstration there and there was kids from Somalia, Russia, all these exotic places. And then the teacher was, I think the teacher was from Scotland and I was from America and we were doing the street painting thing in Norway.

It's like that happened. It was just amazing.

Passionistas: How do you decide what work you're going to do? Where do you draw your inspiration? Or did they have themes for the different events?

Lorelle: They sometimes have themes and sometimes it's just something that hits me. I can't even explain it. It's just like, you know, artists, how do, how do you pin down their muse?

You know, it's just an inspiration that strikes you. Like I did this big project, like in 2019 called the garden of Eden. It's probably the biggest thing I've ever done, but I, that inspiration was because I like to play an air paint and I go around to different gardens, my husband and I love to go walking and gardens and stuff.

And so I created this, the street painting. That was huge, enormous thing that was done by a collaboration of, I don't know how many artists all worked on it. Maybe about 15 artists. We all worked on it and created this botanical garden. As a street painting installation, but that was what the inspiration came from, was me traveling around and just doing my watercolor painting.

And then I thought, wow, that would be like a cool street painting idea. That's one example.

Passionistas: So it seems like street painting has evolved recently. You see the things on the internet of someone sees a building with a crack, and then they turn that into, you know, this dark hole that you look like you can walk through. Do you do that kind of street painting too? Or do you mainly concentrate on your own style masters and the masters and things like that?

Lorelle: I kind of do all of it really. I mean, I worked for, I think I kind of still do, but there's a company called We Talk Chalk. They did a many commercial, like big commercial projects. And I would come in and these were not just made out of chalk, but were done on canvas and painted with acrylic paint because they have to be sent out to like cores or all the different commercial, you know, Kia, all these big commercial companies wanted to use that art form to promote businesses. So I got involved in helping produce those types of things for them, which was really wonderful. And I've done many 3d things on my own as well. I don't think it's my strongest suit. I like doing it and it's fun for me, but I think I love a lot of the classical kinds of little. So sometimes it's impressionist.

So, you know, I'm not one of these. It's really hard for me as an artist. Cause I kind of migrate. That's probably one of the, I don't know if it's a good thing or not, but I migrate to different, but I do. I love class, very class, whole looking things too. And I do the 3d. I was like a moving target. It sounds like you continued to study.

I just wrote something to one of my artists, friends. I said, you know, artists, I don't know my exact quote, but it was kind of like, you're always walking around the next bend to try to sort of see what's there. It's not, it's not like you're never done. You're just always kind of seeking and curiosity pulls you around that corner to see what's next.

Passionistas: You know, you said that doing street art has had a far reaching effect on you. How has it changed your life?

Lorelle: I suppose it's just the connection to so many various artists that I know all over the world. I have actually met them. They're not just virtual friendships that have gone to a street painting festival in Florida for about 10 years or more than that now, and this festivals international festivals.

So they bring people in from everywhere. Ukraine, Australia. Mexico everywhere. And these are all people you create. You've got a community suddenly, you know, you've got a community of people who you've known each other. You kind of come back to the same place every year. And so we really connected in Italy.

I've a lot of friends in Italy and that is huge because we all, we help each other when we need, and we support each other. If there's questions. It's just a terrific and amazing thing. And it's sometimes it's been in very funky situations where, you know, I mean, cause you practically are living together sometimes, you know, and like these artists just imagine what you would think and still almost like a community or commune of artists that are, you know, eating together and talking and doing, you know, just whatever it is and talking about your ideas are creative.

So I have that, you know, that community that's grown over the years and that's just one festival, but it's many. So it's almost like a circus that's kind of travels around together. Yeah. Sort of thing. And then, um, the effect that it has, I think just the travel and the community. And then, and then also the effect that see that it has on people as they're looking at what you're doing, the public effect is, is a really big deal.

Passionistas: What kind of reaction do you tend to get?

Lorelle: It's all different. You know, I was in North Dakota two years ago and I got invited to come back there again pretty soon. So that's going to be interesting. I dunno. I just, I, you know, I, for that festival, I kind of was thinking about that. It's a little town called a Putin and, uh, Industry there, how to do with the trains.

Like it was a big train community and my husband more, and his mom was Frank from St. Paul and her father worked the train. And I connected with that thought how cool it would be to think about the trains and going there and doing some that speaks to their community. And they have the bison there. They have big Buffalo bison and combining those images.

And I did this piece that meant a lot to me. I just felt like it showed the power of the animal and the power of that iron, you know, train. And, you know, even though it didn't really talk to every single person that came by, but there was somebody that came by. Whose whole family was, had been historically in this train, kind of, that was everything that their family was, you know, from his historically.

And they really got it. You just, without even saying anything, they were just like, you could tell that they connected with it with the imagery and stuff. So it ranges from the very emotional response to something as silly as like I made an anamorphic snow cone for one project. That was out in Cerritos, California, and you know, it was the anamorphic.

So it was this huge thing that was like 20 feet long, but you could stand there and hold it. And it looked like you were eating a snow cone and people are goofing around with it and kids were having fun. And so, you know, there's such a broad range, but it can be a very emotional one too, just silly.

Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. And you're listening to the Passionistas Project podcast and our interview with Lorelle Miller to learn more about her art. Visit LorelleMiller.com. And be sure to save the dates for the 2021 Passionistas Project Women's Equality Summit being held virtually this year for August 20th through August 22nd.

For details, go to ThePassionistasProject.com/2021Summit. Now here's more of her interview with Lorelle.

Before we started recording, you were telling us about a collaborative piece in Pasadena. Tell us what that is and how that works. How do you actually do a piece with other people?

Lorelle: I wasn't really instrumental in bringing that about at all, but basically what happens like what's going to happen with that one is that there's a, a big image that I told you.

It was a Norman Rockwell that was suggested and everybody thought it was cool. It was a good image, but they basically break it down into sections, like, like long triangular sections. And then everybody works on their section and it kind of comes together. Now I've worked on many collaborations. I've worked with another big influencer for me was a very, very famous, um, street painter named Kurt winter.

I've been actually involved in like two or three of his projects. Two of them were in the Guinness book of world records, but the one in Pasadena, we're all doing individual sections. When I worked on a big piece that I did for Kurt winter, if you look up the garden of wonders on YouTube, you'll see this giant anamorphic shark.

I think it was like 27,000 square feet. It was in the Guinness. And then my little garden of wonders that I created was off on the side of that. You can see it just kind of kept adding to it because that was on a runway in Florida. Then as Florida, we took over an airport runway and created these huge installations.

So it's really interesting, but so sometimes it's done in sections like collaboration. Sometimes people will do sections and then sometimes they work in layers like Curt Winter would have. Do a layer and then other artists were work on top of that layer. So that it's almost as though all the different styles kind of merged together, which is really crazy.

That was really interesting to be a part of that, to see how that was all done, you know? Cause you think, cause everybody has a different handwriting, every makes a different mark, but somehow when it's all pulls together, it can Nash and that's not unusual. I mean, even in the classical. You know, they would have somebody who would do a lot of the, let's say the, you know, organic botanical types of ideas, you know, for painting.

Then another person who was a figurative painter would come in and work in, do the figurative and they'd work it together. Is there a lot of pre-planning in that type of project or is it just like, here's your corner go for it? It ranges like when I did the garden of wonder, cause that, like I said, that was a huge endeavor and it took a year to prepare.

And I had a lamp, uh, my friends, uh, the Renshaw has this couple that I know they're architects and the landscape architect when I wanted to do that garden. So I had the help of, I had the concept and I made a maquette, a model for it, of what I wanted, and they worked out the geometry with me. And my idea was just to, to create this format and then, um, The artists themselves, the people that I asked to join the team, I wanted a nice cooperative team.

Cause that's, you gotta kind of watch that, you know? Cause you gave people that are too like, you know, that will resist. So I found this wonderful dream team of people that were extremely talented and I wanted them pretty much to do their, their thing. I wasn't going to like art director. But I wanted to give him the format and then have it all kind of work together.

That's kind of how we did that. One. We, we, it was a combination of do your own thing, and this is kind of the, your parameters that you have to work with. And then once you get onsite, it always changes a little bit too. Like you have the idea. And then when it comes to the, the actuality of it, You know, we wanted to kind of like, maybe have some of the leads carry into another part of the, the other side.

Like you have Asia and then you have Africa. I forget all the different ways I did it. You know, I had each continent was divided up.

Passionistas: So what happened? That was different on the day?

Lorelle: Well, then for instance, like the, like we wanted a little segue, like if, you know, I had it kind of like structured in walls, like, uh, I think it was, this was an octagon, it was seven, seven sites.

Septic on. So it was very linear, like an end. And then some of the artists said, well, wouldn't it be kind of neat. Like I have a cherry blossom tree if it kind of like moved over into the next side just a little bit. So it kind of flowed. So that is something we discussed on that.

Passionistas: How has COVID impacted your work?

Lorelle: All the street painting basically pretty much stopped just now the drums starting to, you can hear the drums starting to be now the festivals. You know, I was up in Canada. That's another place I've been to. So they're starting to come about, some of them are still virtual festivals. Some of them are starting to like, okay, we're going to do it here.

Anyway, like in North Dakota, um, Pasadena is doing it. Um, but as far as my own personal work, I have not really skipped a beat. I mean, My art in its own, you know, just my, my painting and all of that. I've been doing it consistently throughout this thing, I think probably saved my mental health, quite frankly, but I did participate in several virtual festivals and so forth, but it did have an impact for sure.

And I, you know, I was teaching, I've been a teacher for 25 years off. And that had to come to a halt and I'm, he's still evaluating how I want to carry that forward. But you know, this, this time during the pandemic, I, I just thought to myself, you know, at my age, and everything's like, you need to be doing your best work.

Like this is when you need to bring it. I mean, I can still goof around and do whatever, but, you know, it's like, I'm really trying to like focus on, you know, how many years of your life do you have to really put out your best that you can. No, we don't live forever. That's true. So tell us more about that.

Passionistas: Tell us more about your non street art.

Lorelle: I love to draw and drawing and painting work hand in hand, and sometimes, you know, I'll concentrate. I think what I do, because I, like I told you, I kind of migrate to various. Aspects of my work and with painting and drawing, like you can concentrate on where it's just painting and it's just, I mean, it's just drawing and it's just like black and white or graphite or charcoal or something.

And I'll focus in on that, but then I'll get hungry for color. And I may move into working more with my oil paints where they're thick. And I have to, you know, manipulate the plasticity of the paint where, you know, you have to drag the edges and soften the edges and so forth, or sometimes I'll get hungry again and I'll need to move over to my watercolors because of the fluid nature of it.

And the fact that there's not as much control sometimes, or you have, it's just, each thing seems to have a different draw for me. So I, you know, I've been moving through those throughout the pandemic and I was taking. Some online classes and listening to lifestyle. Totally. I didn't listen to podcasts that maybe I, I do actually, when I think about it, cause I was listening to several artists like, you know, very helpful, you know, on Fridays, Craig Nelson is a terrific artist and he had this online thing going on where you could ask him questions and watch what he was doing.

And I actually started doing that myself. Not that I really can talk and paint that well, I would put up my camera and show my process of whatever like that. Ruth Bader Ginsburg behind me. I did that live and I did, I did that a lot throughout all the pandemic, but I basically, I guess I do, I do my oil painting and I like to draw and I love water color and I still need to get back to my sculpture.

That's I have that too. It's dormant right now. You mentioned that you also teach art. So it seems like you've done that a lot. I worked for Segerstroms Art Center and I did, I did a lot of I've done teaching really since, I guess since, uh, probably about 25 years. I think I, I worked for our community college as an adult.

Instructor for all kinds of things, different community classes and, um, art camps for kids. And I worked at the school in the school district. And, um, then later on I, I did stuff for seeker sons, which was great, that that had a lot to do with science and art. We were trying to create programs where we were using different artistic.

Vehicles to help explain scientific concepts. And that was a collaboration between seeker Sims and university of Irvine. And we were visiting artists. And then I do a lot of workshops. I'm a visiting artist to a lot of schools. Like I worked at a school for Al the, um, you do an artist residency, like at a French school.

I did that out in Orange County, which is really cool. Cause I got to use the tiny little bit of French that I know I learned a little bit, but it was teaching students street painting. I did this huge, this huge street painting with all kids from kindergarten all the way till I guess they were maybe fourth or fifth graders.

So I've done teaching like that. And I, and I've done my own private classes too. I taught for the community college. Yeah. Out here. For like 15 years, I taught seniors. Like I went around to various senior living homes and I would teach in those areas, you know, different people at those places. And then I had private let, you know, did private classes at my house for many years too.

So I've had a broad range with teaching and then I teach also on the road, like when I would go to. A festival, they would have me teach, like in Chicago, I would show street painting techniques or in Nashville, I've gone to so many places. That's another part of the extraordinary experience that I've had with just traveling and teaching too.

Passionistas: What do you like about teaching?

Lorelle: I like the sharing part of it, and I like it when the people are serious and get something out of it, you know, when they are, they. I think one of the biggest thing is, is when they see the growth or I can see the growth in them. I know it's an entertaining thing to do, but I like it when it's like, somebody is really getting it and wanting it more than play.

I like the play part too, you know? And I got to tell you one other thing I did, I taught a high school junior high Institute that was really. Gosh, that was a great fun, the energy. It's such an interesting thing, too. When you, when you teach such a variety of ages, like from kindergarten to 90 year olds, and then you teach the junior high kids and their energy is just like off the wall.

I taught a sculpture. I taught sculpture in this class of junior high kids that were, you know, I ha I had all this assemblage stuff to do, like assemblage scope thing. And I, you know, they would make like, whatever. Some kind of creature or something like that. I would say now, imagine if you can make it like, as giant as a planet or as small as a cell, you know, I had them use their brain to think of how those ideas could be expanded or God, it was, that was a lot of fun, but it wasn't no, you know, I thought they would come in there and make like maybe one thing and they ended up making like three things, you know, all in the same amount of time.

Cause their energy sucks. It's really fun. I love like when I was, uh, I went to a Sonoma school, but it was a kind of, a little bit of an inner city school type thing. And I had a lot of fun with the kids. I enjoyed that a lot, you know, doing the street painting and having them kind of develop their ideas.

I was there for six weeks, right before the pandemic.

Passionistas: What's the most challenging part of being a street artist?

Lorelle: There's always physical challenges because the streets. Is extremely physical. I mean, you can be working for like 12, 14 hours a day on the ground. So you have to really, I mean, that's suppose that's a big challenge to sophisticated city of it.

And luckily I've been doing it for so many years. I still am pretty good, but that's one challenge. I think most of the challenge just comes from yourself. Like just wanting to do your best work and not emotionally getting hung up on competitive stuff with other artists and stuff like that. That's that for me, honestly.

And it's kind of, cause you know, as an artist, sometimes you get rejected too. So that's, I mean, that's a hard thing for me. I wish I could. I'm trying to work on that. That shouldn't be a thing. I, you know, you really just want to kind of do your own thing and not worry about the others stuff. Like, you know, you win some, you lose some.

Passionistas: What advice would you give to a young woman who wants to follow her passion for art?

Lorelle: Probably to be fearless and curious and just do it.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Lorelle Miller, to learn more about her artwork, visit LorelleMiller.com.

Please visit ThePassionistasProject.Com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. Sign up for a one-year subscription and get a free mystery box worth $40 using the code SUMMERMYSTERY.

And be sure to save the dates for The 2021 Passionistas Project Women's Equality Summit being held virtually this year from August 20th through August 22nd.

For details, go to ThePassionistasProject.com/2021Summit.

Until next time stay well and stay passionate.

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Emma Zack is the founder of Berriez, a curated online vintage shop that celebrates curves, colors and fruit. Although they launched in Brooklyn in 2018, the seed was planted when Emma was just a teenager, frustrated by the challenge of finding fun and stylish clothes that fit her curvy body. Emma turn to secondhand shopping as a way to find what made her feel good in her skin. Berriez brings the fruits of Emma's satorial eye to others. Accessibility and representation are the core of Berriez. Like fruit, Emma wants every Berriez' customer to remember that they're uniquely vibrant, sweet and desirable at any size and shape.

Learn more about Emma.

Learn more about The Passionistas Project.

Full Transcript:

Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same.

We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking with Emma Zack, the founder of Berriez, a curated online vintage shop that celebrates curves, colors and fruit.

Although they launched in Brooklyn in 2018, the seed was planted when Emma was just a teenager, frustrated by the challenge of finding fun and stylish clothes that fit her curvy body. Emma turn to secondhand shopping as a way to find what made her feel good in her skin. Berriez brings the fruits of Emma's sartorial eye to others.

Accessibility and representation are the core of Berriez. Like fruit, Emma wants every Berriez' customer to remember that they're uniquely vibrant, sweet and desirable at any size and shape. So please welcome to the show Emma Zack.

What's the one thing you're most passionate about?

Emma: Well, if you had asked me that just a few years ago, my answer would not be what it is today. But, today, it would be making fashion accessible to everyone.

Passionistas: So how does that translate into what you do?

Emma: Berriez, I source vintage clothing over size, I would say, about medium and which surprisingly not many other vintage shops do the vintage world. Like the fashion industry in general is... primarily caters toward straight sized people, which is about like sizes double zero to six, eight source plus size vintage, which is actually pretty difficult to find.

But, I try my hardest to find it lately. I've been working with independent designers on expanding their size ranges, so I can also sell small sustainable brands in sizes XL to 5s.

I understand there's people who are double zero out there. But what I don't understand is that it's more, you can more readily find a size 00, then you kind of size, XL where, where like over 60 or 70% of the population is over a size, XL.

So something really isn't adding up. So I've been trying to, you know, confront that.

Passionistas: When did this first become something that you were aware of and something that evolved into this passion for you?

Emma: It became something I was aware of since I was like 10 years old for really going back because as I was a kid, I was also considered plus size quote unquote and You know, I always tell the story of shopping for my Bat Mitzvah dress.

And I was, you know, 13, I was plus-sized, but I wasn't like, you know, above a size 12 women's 12, you know, and I, for the life of me could not find a dress. You know, I couldn't find anything in the teenager section. My mom and I went to all these stores. I remember sobbing in the dressing room. And that's when I kind of let fashion, let me down.

And I was like, I'm not, I just can't find anything in my size. You know? And then it wasn't until a few years ago that I was so fed up with it, that I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna, I'm sick of this. I love fashion. And I'm sick of never finding anything in my size. It's just absurd.

Passionistas: So you mentioned your childhood, tell us where you grew up and what your childhood was like.

Emma: I grew up in Brookline, Massachusetts. It's just a suburb right outside of Boston. And I had a good childhood love my parents shout out to them and, but my sister and I were both always plus-sized. So it was something that, or weight and body image and clothing was always something that we discussed in our house, whether it be positively or most of the time negatively, because even what, 20 years ago, it was not like it is today. It was very much like you're going to fat camp because you're a size 14. But yeah, I mean, I was always the fat one in my friend group, which always left me feeling really shitty.  And but I always loved clothing. Like I can I've loved clothing since I was, since I, I can't even remember, but my mom says that I always dressed myself and I would play dress up in her clothes and my grandma's clothes. But yeah, I, I. I've been thinking a lot about my childhood and how that has influenced what I'm doing today.

And there's an, a connection that so strong and so powerful that, you know, I didn't even realize how much it has impacted me until now.

Passionistas: Who were some of your positive fashion influences when you were a kid?

Emma: I genuinely can't tell you any one, except for My grandma. I never met her, but my mom I was named after her and my mom swears that I am her reincarnated.

She was also a fashion-y stuff and she was also considered plus-size back in the 1940s, fifties. So she was like a size probably today. 10, maybe 10, 12. But you know, I grew up looking at her clothing and wearing her clothing. And other than that, I mean, it's sad, but I never saw anyone who looked like me in the media. So I didn't really have anyone to look towards.

Passionistas: Your mother was a role model for you as far as starting businesses. Right? So tell us about that. 

Emma: She started her own business when she was I actually don't know how old she was, but it was a long time ago.

And she started her own business, founded her own company that she still has to this day. She actually just stepped down as. CEO after 30 plus years of that role. But, you know, I grew up with her and she was always working so hard and like, I just remember going. On vacations or like on the weekend she'd be responding to emails and I never understood, you know, why does she need to respond to this email right now?

And now I'm like, oh my gosh, she was just so passionate about what she was doing. And that I'm the same way I always have to, you know, I'm always doing my job, you know, even if there's a day off, but. It's just because you love it so much, but that's what I grew up with. And you know, she has such a great work ethic and she is so kind, she treats everyone with so much respect and love.

So that's kind of how I've been approaching my business. And you know, it's, it's just really hard to run a business, which is what I'm learning now.

Passionistas: What was the business that she started?

Emma: My mom, her company is called Houseworks and it's an elder care business. So she helps seniors stay at home and she actually started it after her parents both died.

And that, that whole experience really took a toll on her. And she was just like, I'm going to devote my life to this. And she sure did. And now she's has one of the best elder care companies in the country.

Passionistas: What made you decide to leave Massachusetts and come out to California to study at Occidental College. And what did you study there?

Emma: I knew I wanted to go to a small school and, just cause I like more like individualized learning. And and I saw all the small schools on the east coast and I just wasn't really vibing with them. And then I saw Occidental and I was like, oh, is just perfect. Loved the energy there.

My cousins all live around there. So I decided to go out to California. My parents were not thrilled because it was so far. But I actually went to college and in my freshman year of college, I took this class called the prison industrial complex about the United States prison system and race in America.

I learned about the prison system and I. I thought it was the most, a horror. It was such, it was just atrocious. And I did an internship with the ACL of Southern California's jails project, and that's when I decided that I wanted to go into criminology and work in criminal justice. So that's what I studied in college.

Passionistas: That's a pretty far away field from fashion. So how long did you work in that area and how did you make that transition after college?

Emma: I moved back to Boston and I got a job at the CPCs innocence program, which is part of the public defender's office in Massachusetts that helps get innocent people out of prison.

So I worked there for about two years and then got. Another job in the field at the Innocence Project in New York City, which is like the head organization. So I moved to New York City for that job for, it was four and a half years ago. And I actually only left that job in December.

Passionistas: And what did you do there? What was that work like?

Emma: [It was very difficult. So when I first started, I was more of a paralegal and I'd have, I would answer all the calls. So I'd be on the phone with all of our clients all day. And it was just very mentally draining and difficult, but I learned so much. And then I became a case analyst.

So I would analyze all the cases that came into. The project and decide if it was a case that we should pursue or not. Then that road became just so draining because I was literally reading about rape and murder all day, every day. So I moved into our communications department where I was a writer. So I wrote all of our annual reports and yeah, I worked on publications and I, I enjoyed that a lot.

Passionistas: In your spare time where you starting the fashion company?

Emma: About two years into my job at the Innocence Project, my friend and I were just at my house and I was like, and that's how I'm going to start selling vintage clothing online.

And she was like, okay, cool. So we just inventoried a few pieces that I already had and made an Instagram. And just started from there. And then, yeah, so it was really, it's funny. It was totally just, I wasn't thinking of it as a business or anything. Excuse me. I was just thinking of it as like a side hobby that would get me kind of distracted in a way from my day job, which was so mentally draining.

Passionistas: Did you start by looking for pieces for yourself, and then you'd found you just had enough that you wanted to sell? Like, how did that happen?

Emma: So I was really into vintage. And at the time, I don't know if you know about the like Instagram vintage scene, but a few years ago people or businesses started using Instagram as a selling platform to sell vintage clothing, home decor.

So I was really into this world because I love sustainable fashion. And obviously I love vintage, but I was never, ever, ever able to find anything in my size. And at the time I was like a 12, 14, so that's wild. So I would buy pieces from these other sellers and, you know, they would have, they would model the pieces on Models that were like size four and something that size for that looks oversize on that model.

I would get it and it wouldn't even go over my arm. So to make a long story short, I just kept buying this, you know, really hoping that one day I'd find some stuff that fit me. And most of it didn't. And so that was where my. First batch of shit came from. And then obviously I started to have to go and get more, but it, yeah, it really came out of just like stuff doesn't fit me.

I have so much of it. And also, I didn't see anyone on the internet on Instagram. Selling clothes for vintage for plus size people. So I was like, I'm going to just do this myself. This is it's out there. You know, it's not like plus-size people didn't exist back in the day.

Passionistas: Once you started selling on Instagram, were you surprised by how many people were connecting to what you were doing?

Emma: I'm trying to remember how it grew so quickly, but it did. But honestly people would, and I still to this day, get all these messages that are like, oh my God, I'm so happy. I found you. There's no one else doing this. This is so necessary and, and stuff, but So it wasn't really surprising because I was like, I know I'm not the only plus size person.

And again, I'm old at the time. I was only a 12, 14. Now I'm a solid 16. But like at the time I should not have been like 12, 14 and not fitting into literally anyone. So I wasn't surprised to be honest, but I was surprised at how quickly it picked up. I was not expecting what's going on now. I was not expecting that.

Passionistas: So, is that why you quit your job because Berriez became a full-time job for you?

Emma: Yes. A few reasons. I think that the work, I think I was very burnt out from the Innocence Project or not even just the Innocence Project, but that work cause I had been doing it at that point for 10 years and it was so draining.

I'm an empath. So. I'm really sensitive to emotion. So I like I take on so many emotions and it was just, I couldn't disconnect, you know? So that was a big part of it just burn out. But also I couldn't juggle both anymore. Cause you know, it was 40 hours a week for innocence project and then another 40 hours a week for Berriez because I was doing Berriez on all evenings mornings, starting at like 6:00 AM and then all weekend. So I never. For about like a year. I just didn't take a break. Really.

Passionistas: So besides wanting people to have pretty clothes, is there like an emotional mission that you have with the company?

Emma: Of course. I mean, I think it's so much more about pretty clothes it's about being able to go somewhere and not feeling defeated and like someone doesn't care about you because I, even two weeks ago, my I went and visited my mom. My mom was a size eight. I would say we went to the mall for the first time in about like, what two years here, whatever. And we literally couldn't go into any stores because nothing, there was not a store in the, in the mall that had anything of my size.

And it's like, that's so disheartening and frustrating. It's like, I don't want other people to feel excluded. It's just not a good feeling. And I grew up with it and have felt it over and over and over and over again that I want people to come in and be like, oh my God, wait. Stuff fits me. And, oh my gosh, I feel good about myself because feeling good about yourself is what's gonna help you.

Do you know, your day-to-day tasks, whether that be working criminal justice or, you know, working at a bakery or whatever you're you're doing. I think clothes are so much more than just. How, you know, they look and I've really been getting in touch with that, especially during quarantine.

Passionistas: We’re Amy and Nancy Harrington and you’re listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Emma Zack. To check out her “Curated for Curves” store visit ShopBerriez.com.

Save the Dates for the 2021 Passionistas Project Women’s Equality Summit, being held virtually this year on August 20 through August 22. For details go to The Passionistas Project dot com/2021Summit.

Now here’s more of our interview with Emma.

So they're a form of self-expression. How do you use fashion as self-expression?

Emma: I love to express myself through fashion. I wear a lot of bright pop patterns and bold prints. I wear a lot of like novelty, sweaters and shirts that. Are funny and that don't that just show that Fasten doesn't need to be taken so seriously. I think there's and I experienced this as I'm in the fashion world, there's so much of it that is so exclusive. And so like, oh, well, if you don't look this a certain way, or if you don't wear this, this and this, you're not actually in the industry. Well, that's B S you know what I mean? So I try and just wear whatever I want to wear right now. I'm wearing lime green shorts, this really weird top in this big flower necklace. And yeah. I just encourage people to not listen to the quote unquote rules and fashion. Just if you like a shirt that's really bright, but you're, you know, bigger where it, who cares, you know, if it's quote unquote flattering.

Passionistas: How has COVID  affected your business?

Emma: It's been weird because before COVID, I was able to do pop-ups every weekend to make money. And during COVID, I obviously had to switch to like a a hundred percent e-com platform. So now I'm back. I'm like doing this a hundred percent e-com excuse me. And now of course, as I finally figured it out, popups are happening again. So but business, honestly, hasn't, it it's been, I've been growing, but I've been learning how much it takes and costs to grow and sustain a business.

And that's been probably the hardest part for me. And some, it just gets me so frustrated every time I think about it, which is every day. But Yeah. So COVID has not been great for business, but it's also at the, at, on the flip side, it has been great because my company has grown.

Passionistas: So now what are your future plans for Berriez?

Emma: So I've so many. This is my biggest problem is that I have so many ideas, but I also have, truthfully, I have ADHD. So my ideas are literally everywhere. I cannot sit still or focus, but my goal, all right, now, one of them is I've been, like I said earlier, working with independent women designers who are extending their size line for Berriez and these designers, the clothing is a bit more expensive than I usually sell, but that's just because all the designers are sustainable and the fabrics are all just like really beautiful fabrics and everything is just hand dyed or whatever. It may be. Everything is material meticulously crafted. And on top of that, I mean, I'm making sure that for each garment that I put out, I fit it on plus size people before it goes into production.

So that we're not just grading up from small sizes to plus sizes. It's like, we're actually going to fit this garment on a plus body. So that it's actually true to size where it's not that problem of like, Okay. Size 16 fits like a size 10. You know what I mean? Which I'm so sick of designers these days doing that because so many are like, we're a size inclusive and then their size 16 won't even go on my foot, you know?

So that's one and then two, I've been thinking a lot about, you know, I just got a studio space because I'm also. All of my stuff was in my basement and, February. So I finally moved it out of my basement. But I think that it would be really great to have a storefront because as a plus size person, it is so important to try on clothing before I buy them. And also back to the experience part where, you know, if you're a plus size person, you'd be able to walk into the store and be, find everything that fits you. You know what I mean? And not just like maybe one thing that's really stressed.

Passionistas: And I would imagine have a sales person who was supportive and understood, stood your normal trepidation about going into a store to shop for clothing.

Emma: Absolutely. I mean, probably a plus size sales person who knows, you know, who's got gone through this experience themselves and knows how to like fit the clothing on our to our 

Passionistas: Do you have any desire to design your own clothes?

Emma: Yeah. And so that was another thing that we're working on is my employee Eilee Lichtenstein, who is a brilliant creative genius.

Have you ever heard of the designer, Michael Simon? He made those like novelty sweaters in the late eighties and the nineties. So he's one of my all time here. I was, I think he, his mind is like, so genius to me.

So what we've been doing is we wanted to make our own novelty sweaters, but we didn't want to produce anything new. So we've been sourcing vintage sweaters and hand felting over onto the vintage sweater. So we've been making these novelty sweaters, but that are still sustainable on vintage sweaters.

So that's been a really fun idea. Our first collection sold out in 10 minutes, which has never happened in the history of anything. He will want the sweaters. So we're working on a batch of actually like knit tanks and sweater vest for the summer. So those will be ready and hopefully three weeks or so.

And then I would love to like, start producing those in a larger scale. And then also with vintage shirts, of course. And then also using like vintage shapes that I've found, you know, and patterning those to make new stuff, but out of sustainable or dead stock materials. So I've been trying to keep the business the sustainability model.

Passionistas: So you've talked about the frustration that you felt with the fashion industry, not representing plus size people. Do you think it's changed at all? Is it getting any better?

Emma: It absolutely is. It's even the past year. There's so many brands popping up that are like actually trying, I mean I have to shout out this one brand called Wray W-R-A-Y.

And she is just so brilliant because she is making, she just started extended her size range up to 6X, but the clothing is not like, you know how a lot of no offense plus size clothing is not cute. So. She is making plus-size clothing. That's like actually wearable art. You know what I mean? So that's great.

And then, yeah, there's so many brands, not so many, but there's a lot of brands popping up and doing that at the same time though. There are still so many that aren't doing it. Or doing it so wrong, like being like, were we sell a size XXL and the execs outfits, like a large and another thing is, is that media it's, the fashion media itself is changing in that like brands are hiring plus size models. Like, I don't know if you've seen athletes just extended their sizes target. Big companies are finally getting hip to it. You know,

Passionistas: What advice would you give to a young woman who wants to follow her passions like you have?

Emma: I would say to take the risk, but I didn't take that risk until I had fully thought everything through. And organize everything. So I think that was really important. And that was because of my parents. They were like, you want to quit your job, quit your job. How are you going to live? But, you know, it's a huge, it's a huge risk, but you're not going to find out if it works until you do it right. And if it doesn't work, then this is a whole long life ahead of you. So take the risk.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Emma Zack. To check out her “Curated for Curves” store visit ShopBerriez.com.

Please visit ThePassionistasProject.com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women-owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. Sign up for a one-year subscription and get a FREE Mystery Box worth $40.

Save the Dates for the 2021 Passionistas Project Women’s Equality Summit, being held virtually this year on August 20 through August 22. For details go to ThePassionistasProject.com/2021Summit.

And subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don’t miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.

Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.

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Meridy Volz is an internationally acclaimed artist who’s known for her paintings of figures and use of shockingly innovative electric color to create a mood. In 2020, Meridy’s daughter Alia published the book “Home Baked: My Mom, Marijuana, and the Stoning of San Francisco,” which chronicled Meridy’s life running Sticky Fingers Brownies, an underground bakery that distributed thousands of marijuana brownies per month and helped provide medical marijuana to AIDS patients in San Francisco.

Learn more about Meridy.

Get a copy Alia Volz's book Home Baked.

Learn more about The Passionistas Project.

Full Transcript:

Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. And today we're talking with Meridy Volz, an internationally acclaimed artist who is known for her paintings of figures and use of shockingly innovative electric color to create a mood.

In 2020 Mary's daughter, Alia published the book. "Home Baked: My Mom, Marijuana and the Stoning of San Francisco", which chronicled marriages, life running Sticky Fingers Brownies,an underground bakery that distributed thousands of marijuana brownies per month and helped provide medical marijuana to aids patients in San Francisco.

So please welcome to the show Meridy Volz.

Meridy: Hi and thank you. It's great to be here.

Passionistas: Oh, we're so excited to talk to you today. What is the thing that you're most passionate about?

Meridy: I'm most passionate about my art, about expressing emotion through my art and about our activism in this day and age.

Passionistas: What is art activism?

Meridy: For me, art activism is using my creation of art to contribute to positive movement in the community to express feelings, things that are going on in the world right now in our, in our country right now, and do it through different mediums using color line, text your. And subject matter to express that and to bring change, to kind of shine the light on what is happening and give a very true response to it.

I'm very happy to be part of a movement for change in our time, which really is calling out for it.

Passionistas: Let's take a step back. What was your childhood like? And were there things in your childhood that inspired you to become an activist?

Meridy: It was a mixed bag. I was raised in a middle-class Jewish family in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

My mother was a school teacher. My dad owned a Tavern. I always had art. I was born with a cran in my hand. And by the time I was three, I was drawing colorful people, which now 70 years later at the age of 73, I'm still doing it. And it was a somewhat difficult household. My mother was very strict and critical and somewhat abusive.

And so for me, that place. Where I was laying on the floor and leaning on my elbows, drawing that place where my cran touched the paper was my sanctum sank, Torian. It was my space and nobody could get into that world was mine alone. And it still is that for me, it's been that for me, man, entire life. And I was.

Recognize very young. I was six when I got a scholarship to go to art school at the Milwaukee art center, which had just opened by a teacher from the, who come around from the Milwaukee school board. And she'd pick up little samples of artwork from young students. To show. And I guess she, she showed them in different places.

Her name was Ms. Yuri, and I'll never forget. I forget her. She had pure white year and as a child Ms. Berry rhymed with flurry, and there was a lot of snow in Milwaukee. So I always associated her with whites. No, I'll never forget that white hair. And she got me my first scholarship. And then from then on, I had great teachers all along all through university.

There were some fabulous teachers who took me under their belt and mentored me. And I was born an artist and I'll die in artists. So I've always known my calling. That's been clear. I've been really lucky that way is I didn't have to search for my calling. It was there.

Passionistas: Was that part of the reason you went out to California?

Meridy: I was illustrating writing and illustrating children's books for the Rockefeller foundation in the seventies. And it was a great gig because I could do it from anywhere I love to draw. And it was the first medium that was bilingual. That was Tran translated into Spanish. It was reproduced on. Really early re reproducing machines.

And so it was cheaply produced, but it was bilingual material. It was the first and I illustrated it and I had gone to Europe because I could, and I could send my work into my boss from any country. And then my dad would pick up my paycheck and wire my money. I'd go to the next country. Well, I ended up going to Morocco and falling in love with a bare bare man that I met at a new year's Eve party.

And he turned out to be gay in the end, but he did end up coming to Milwaukee. And my dad said him back to get his act together before we got married. And he never came because he was clearly gay. He was living at that time with a hairdresser in Switzerland. So I was heartbroken and needed a change. And I had a friend who was in San Francisco and she was like, come on out.

And so I did, I packed everything up and I arrived in San Francisco to find that at that time, San Francisco was quite a wonderful place, a Haven for artists and. Gay and lesbian people where they could be more free and very open-minded. And so I coming from rather conservative Milwaukee there, I was, I was in San Francisco and that's how I got there and fell in love with the city, which was quite beautiful.

Passionistas: Then how did that lead to you making pot brownies?

Meridy: Well, I've always been spiritual. My spirituality is, is a smorgasbord of things. Even now, everything from Zen to Zen Buddhism, to Judaism, to Christianity, to Santa Maria. And part of that was I was into the Ching and into consulting the Ching. And I had a friend who had a little business on fishermen's work, she would go and she'd make all these wonderful baked goodies.

And she had a basket put the goodies in a basket to sell to the street artists who were on the Wharf. And she also had a bag where she carried one dozen pot brownies. And also, so those, and she called me, she had made enough money to move herself to Findhorn in Scotland, which was a commune at the time.

And she asked me if I wanted her business and I was like, Hmm. And I had been still illustrating children's books. I did a book for Filipinos, a book for the Chinese of book for the Jewish academy and was still working for the Rockefeller foundation. And I thought, well, that's interesting. And I tossed a hexagram and it surprisingly to me, it was very, very positive and I went, oh, wow.

But I'm not a baker. I can't cook, but I love seeing people and working and interacting and perhaps selling. And I had a girlfriend who loved to bake and still does. And so I took her on in the business and long story short. That's how it started. And we were stoners. I won't lie. We were, and we got the secret of how to do a good pop brownie back to grade five by only, and pretty soon the brownies caught on in the bakery at a go.

And that's how Sticky Fingers was born. And it started off recreationally and ended up with the, with the aids epidemic being the only thing which gave the people who were dying. And there were so many, it was stunning. I lost many, many, many, many friends during that time during the epidemic, it was the only thing which gave them relief.

And so it became something else. It was the birth of medical marijuana, and there was always art involved because we designed our own bags every time we went out. And so people collected those. So that was sticky fingers. When I look back on it now and having read Alia's book, my daughter's book five times now, it looks like somebody else's life to me.

Like I look at it. I was like, wow, that was really me doing that. Wow. So that's, that was then, and I never told people about it. Even my closest friends, it stayed secret until we were outed in Alia's book, which it was certainly time to do.

Passionistas: Certainly San Francisco evolved significantly during the time that you were there and you were doing that. How did your art evolve during that time?

Meridy: I've always been figurative. All my art, all of it has the figure in it, except one painting that was a commission in which I did on Anza-Borrego  in the spring, which is a place in the desert. And I did flowers and flowers and cacti, and I kept wanting to sneak a figure in there, like where's Waldo, but I've always been figurative.

Even my designs and the brownie bags were very often, most often figures, always a figure in there. And it's because the figure is a great vehicle for emotions. You can express your personal feelings or an idea, but for me, it's always very emotional. From the time I was little, it was that you can express that through a figure what the figure is doing or what's in their eyes.

That was the same. I was always colorful, always love color. I love pushing color to the maximum. I love using combinations of color that are revolutionary, that people wouldn't think of that where I take a lot of risks. With my color. And, you know, I always tell my students, especially my life drawing students, that if you, if you don't take risks, you can't be great.

You have to like be willing to fail in order for, to really, really be extraordinary. So those risks. I was, I've never been a safe artist. Never not in subject matter. Not I've always been right up on the edge. And that's where an artist needs to be an artist who just settles in to something is not on their edge and artists need to be on the edge.

And if you're not on your edge, you need to push yourself to the edge. And sometimes up and over the edge, may I add. So that's it. So my work back at that time, I've always gotten a lot of awards and things like that from the artwork, uh, you know, all through high school and then college. And then as an adult entering shows, you know, I've won many, many awards.

And I think it's because of taking the risk now, as far as marketing my work, that's another story is that. I have an enormous body of work here. Enormous. I've worked from the front row almost right from the beginning around me and I'm prolific, which means there's a lot of work here. And during the pandemic on some of the arts sites, I've made friends with digital artists and have viewed their work.

And I got a handed to him, man. They can put everything on a thumb drive. Like that, like as big as yours, um, right. I'm like looking around and I, I have a three bedroom home and every single interval has stacked artwork. Every inch, every closet, every shell, my garage so much work. And I always, like, I never wanted to be an art dealer.

And, you know, I'm a you'll inherit this way. Never wanted to be an art dealer. So she could do a big bonfire. I told her because everything is in the process anyway, you know, it was all in the making of the art for me. So I know that won't happen, but so I've never been great at the marketing of my own work.

And part of that is that it's very. I find it off putting when people are like, my work is great way to you see it. And I find myself in any medium musician or, you know, right. Anybody, I find myself stepping back from that a couple of feet and, and so it's very hard to do that. And so I sell, but I sure have a lot of work here so that I would say the art marketing.

I've been weakened, the art making I've been strong in. I dunno if that's evolved much my marketing skills.

Passionistas: You're listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Meridy Volz. To learn more about Meridy's artwork, visit MeridyVolz.art. And to get a copy of her daughter Alia Volz's book, "Home Baked," go to AlizVolz.com.

If you're enjoying this interview and would like to help us continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting ThePassionistasProject.com/podcast and clicking on the patron button. Even $1 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions.

Now here's more of our interview with Meridy.

How would you describe your art for someone who hasn't seen it?

Meridy: I would say my art as expressionists slash impressionist with an extreme palette and texture. I would say my work is extremely emotional, which goes under the category of expressionism. I would say Neo expressionists slash impressionists.

Passionistas: And where do you draw inspiration from?

Meridy: From what I'm feeling at the moment, my deepest, some of them dark feelings, not, you know, it's not, and in this day and age, somebody said, people came to see my work the other day and they were like, it's so deep. And you can just feel, especially the pandemic artist has a real feeling of sadness to it.

And I'm like, if you're not sad in this. These times then you're not paying attention. The loss of life been integrity and so much loss now. And I don't mean to wallow in our negative emotions. However, as an artist, I feel like I'm almost duty bound to record that like years from now, it'll be. An age in the movement of art that contains very, very deep feelings and you see less and less of figurative art and more and more of abstract art probably for that field for that reason is that I think abstract art comes from a different place in general.

I think it can dip into deep emotions, but you can look at a piece of abstract art and it can be a lot of things. The series that I've done during the pandemic, my black lives matter series was another story. I found that to be very relieving because it comes from a different place. It's not about me, and it's not about my emotions.

It's about a life well lived and recording something about the beauty of that person's soul something, you know, because the face. Is a map to that really in most cases. And so for me, it was coming from a much more objective point of view. So from the time George Floyd was murdered to new years, I did a hundred black lives matter portraits.

And that was starting out with black artists, artists who have passed. Who have contributed greatly to our culture. And that was my point. This is why black lives matter is that look at this image, enormous contribution to, to our culture, into the world's culture, but our culture specifically. And by first one I did was James Baldwin.

And I'm still working on this because it's evolved. But at which I will talk about, um, and I began to sell them all proceeds, going to different black lives matter causes. The first section of them went to the bail fund in Portland, when that was happening, the next section of money, which was raised, went directly.

Two black families in my community who are struggling, really struggling. And it went in, honestly it went through community members. I also work with at-risk teens. And so I worked in a church right here in desert hot Springs, where I taught gang kids off the streets. Art. So I met community activists in that community and they distributed the money for me directly.

Like there was a grandma who is feeding three kids who is being evicted because no stimulus check for so long and money went to them and, and so went directly to the community. And then the last section to Georgia for, uh, the election of Ossoff and Warnock. So I feel great about that. I mean, I personally gleaned a lot out of it.

One being able to come out of the deep emotions and just, it was soothing. It was like taking a nice girl shower after being in the heat and also to be active because I couldn't get out and protest. I'm too old to bang the streets anymore. And, and I could be a contributor. And that made me feel very much alive while in lockdown alone for 13 years.

So after that hundred I've been approached by, and this is current happening right now, I was approached by the democratic party of Riverside county. Did I want to do anything with them? So, yes, indeed. I do. And so I had the chair of the party. I had five women all. Meet here last Friday. In fact, everybody vaccinated.

Yay. And we met and they looked at my work. And so we're going to do merchandise using some of the portraits that I've done. For example, we're going to be doing posters, probably a calendar for 2022. And we're going to be starting with t-shirts or we're going to be starting with a John Lewis, onesie for newborn babies that says good trouble.

And I think that's just, as my boys in juvie hall would say, that's dope. So that's what we're working on now. And we're going to do a Stacey Abrams and Amanda Gorman and, uh, uh, Kamala, etcetera. And so that's happening and then a big fundraiser in the fall where I'll take some of these paintings and I'll split the proceeds with the party.

And I feel great about that because yay for the good guys. Anything I can contribute? I glean, I mean, it's not like, oh, Meridy you're so selfless. It's not, honestly, it's not, I gleaned so much out of it. It makes me feel productive. As does teaching my boys are in juvenile hall.

Passionistas:  Tell us how that started and tell us a little bit more about it.

Meridy:  It actually started in 2006 when we started to have the economic collapse, right. And in the recession and all of that. And I thought, how am I going to make money to survive during this. And people were not able to afford classes at that time. It was so bad. And I thought, Hmm. And I walked into juvenile hall and I said, do you have anybody teaching art here?

I had in the past done workshops at San Quentin, may I add that? I painting workshops that, and that was like in the, it might've been the nineties. And I really liked that. It touched on touch something of the rebel inside of me, maybe the outline side of me a little. So I've walked into juvenile hall and they said we don't have money for that.

And I said, how about a five, five the money? So I wrote a grant first grant I ever wrote, and I was awarded the grant and that's where my program started in juvenile hall, where it was for a few years. And then it moved to the church. All on grants. I'm a 16 time recipient of grants from the Anderson children's foundation.

Then it was working with kids on the streets, out of the church here in desert hot Springs, which by the way, has no air conditioning in the summer. And it's 120 degrees here in the summer. That was a real sweat box. I have to say. And then there was gunfire at the church. There was some hassled between the rival gangs.

And there was a shooter who is shooting at my kids coming into class. And that was an eye opener for me. At that time, what I did was I took the boys into the sanctuary and we kind of hovered there. And I was like, if any of you are carrying anything, get rid of it because the police are on their way. And I said to myself, I don't want to get shot to do this, you know, bullet through my head.

So I then started going into alternative schools and bringing the art there. And in addition to teaching the art, we did the fair and they won awards. We did different shows where the boys were able and girls in the schools as boys and girls. Now it's just only boys are housed in India. The girls are in another facility.

I think it Riverside. And so I started going into schools and I have been in schools since and virtual now with the pandemic. Now I'm sent into juvie by Riverside county office of education, and it's a pilot program it's not done anywhere else. And it's very effective. You cannot reform kids. You can't change them without giving them some positive juice and our bins around corners.

That's what I have found is that as an artist, I mingle with what you might consider incarcerated people. You might judge them and say that's lower, lower end. And then very high-end with the adults that I teach artists can run the whole spectrum. And you just are the same. I'm married the artists no matter where I am, nothing changes about that.

And so that's where it's at now. That's where our heart is now. I find that schlepping art supplies with my back right now becomes more difficult. The physicality of it all is just a little harder than it was before, but I'm still in there. I'm still in the game and doing it.

Passionistas: What is the impact on the kids that you're working with, but also on that community that they live in?

Meridy: That's huge in juvie. That's why I find out their first names and address them by their first names and not just the last names I try and get personal with them. I never asked them what they're in for, what was their crime or anything like that. That's not my concern. What my concern is, is my interaction with them, right at that point.

And art is very individual. Because it's you and the paper and the medium you're working on and your individual expression. So there's no right and wrong. Sometimes the kids are like, ah, this doesn't look like anything. And I'm like, it's great abstraction. And then I'll hunt up a picture of like a Pollock or a Kandinsky.

And I look at this, this guy is paintings are worth billions. Look at that, there's our room for everybody in art, everybody. And so I try and make it like that for them where it's very individual, I always deliver good news. So they're very anxious at the end of class to show me their work. I get to play music for them, which they don't get music.

So I'm their disc jockey. And I like to say that I know more about rap than any 74 year old should, but I find clean rap for them and a play it. They can request songs. Sometimes we do all these because they get nostalgic for home, like Otis Redding or the temptations, or like that. And even the rolling stones are considered oldies.

You know, it's like, oh God. So it becomes pleasurable for them. They put their head down and they do their work in the hour and then they come up and they show me and I'm like, that's great because you did that. That's fantastic. And I'll dress them. If I can do it by their first name, they're all dressed in the same uniform.

Same sweat pants and ma wearing masks. And so it's very hard to tell one from the next, but it means a lot if I can remember their names and I start to get it by seeing their artwork like us to see a style emerging and they're like, oh, that's Jonathan or that's Luis, or, you know, I'm getting it in my head.

And so the impacted them, number one, I look at them and I don't see a criminal. I look at them and I see the goodness and them, and that's huge when you're in a punitive, terrible lockdown situation. I've been in person there. I've taught in person many times and it smells like fear. There's a terrible rafting smell in there.

A recycled fear. It's not like any other smell and kind of teen boy BO mixed in with it. Smelly socks and gym shoes and sweat. And then it's got a really, because there's no open air, no open windows. So the energy recycled, if you look at it on an energy level, there's so many pictures, psychic pictures of destroyed vibes, fractured lives, broken, broken people, sadness.

Abandonment. I mean, it's all of that. So in that little hour, when I'm the weird grandma artists, because they get to see the art, it's special for them. If I sell something, I'll tell them, oh, I saw that. How much did you get miss? Would you do one for me? That's meaningful. I believe that I will be that experience will be something that they will remember in their lives.

It's a takeaway, whereas probably almost everything else in juvie. You want to forget because it's hard and horrible and they're just horrible. I certainly bring color in there too. Another wise, very doll situation. And I think I bring a little joy and I bring acceptance. You know, I don't judge them. I only have to say it once.

If you're requesting a song, say, please, so they always can I please listen to this? Thank you, miss. You know, they're all was pleased and tech and that's a good skill to learn. That's a life skill. And I always ended by saying, be kind to each other and be safe and I love you. And they're always like, we love you more, you know, and that's a counter herself that I think it's a small contribution, but I think it contributes to the positive for those boys.

I think if it was in every juvenile hall, we'd see less people in juvie. Factor. They had the art class before they committed the crime, which is why I took it to the streets and out of juvie. I thought if I could head this off before it gets in there before the kid does the deed. And so that one is hard to judge how effective versus I know I'm being effective here.

Passionistas:  Is there one lesson that you've learned on your journey so far that really sticks with you?

Meridy: You gotta take risks. You gotta just, if you fail, you fail. If you crash and burn you crash and burn, but if you succeed, you can be extraordinary. That would be one thing. And the other thing is just open your heart.

If you get it, be loving and accepting of people. Uh, frankly, it's a struggle for me right now with certain demographic of people. And I struggle with that because you gotta be loving, you gotta be open. And I feel so pissed off at 7 million people right now in this country. I just feel like, but you just gotta try, you know, be kind, be loving if you can, and contribute, take risks who contribute.

Get out on a whim. If you get bad feedback from somebody, that's their problem. People always say, follow your heart, but it's true. Find something you're passionate about. Passionistas and follow it. Do it, do it for the good, the greater good.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Meridy Volz. To learn more about Meridy's artwork, visit MeridyVolz.art.

And to get a copy of her daughter, Alia Volz's book, "Home Baked," go to AliaVolz.com. Please visit ThePassionistasProject.Com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. Get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription using the code SUMMERMYSTERY.

And be sure to subscribe through The Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.

Until next time stay well and stay passionate.

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Judith Halbreich’s lifetime of advocacy work is focused on the importance of all children having a home base and continuous mentorship. She is a licensed clinical social worker and psychotherapist with a successful executive career in social services, clinical research and mental health. Judith is the founder of Home of Champions, a unique program in Upstate New York that identifies leaders emerging from the foster care system and supports them towards becoming champions of their best selves.

Learn more about Home of Champions.

Learn more about The Passionistas Project.

Full Transcript:

Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. And today we're talking with Judith Halbreich. Her lifetime of advocacy work is focused on the importance of all children, having a home base and continuous mentorship.

She is a licensed clinical social worker and psychotherapist with a successful executive career in social services, clinical research and mental health. Judith is the founder of Home of Champions a unique program in upstate New York that identifies leaders emerging from the foster care system and supports them towards becoming champions of their best selves.

So please welcome to the show Judith Halbreich

Judith: So happy to be here.

Passionistas: So Judith, what's the one thing you're most passionate about?

Judith: I am most passionate about changing policies and procedures and instituting some programming for the disadvantage youth or kids coming out of foster care, going to college that want to graduate and want to have a career and want to be leaders, but there are difficulties in obtaining that. So I am so passionate about them achieving their goals.

Passionistas: Why is that something you became particularly passionate about?

Judith: As a social worker in New York City, and as a caseworker I started off with having teenagers from probably the worst areas of New York, like East New York. And I had a group of kids 13 to 17 and we took them and I decided to take them away on retreats with staff to empower them, to give them self-esteem and we handpick them.

Many of them were in care foster care because they were abused, severely abused. And I can tell you one story of  a girl that was so severely abused, but she's so smart. And she went on to college and she became a director of a Bronx Rehab Center. So we took the youth to retreats with an independent living skills program, but with the sense that they are diamonds in the rough, they just need to have the support to be the best they could be.

I realized that, and then I became executive director of that agency. And one day after I left that agency to relocate. That one person that was severely abused, who made an incredible life for herself, came back to the agency and said, if it wasn't for this group of staff, that helped me. I wouldn't be where I am.

And to me, that was like the impetus for starting this program without a doubt. No one ever he has professionally. What? Because no one looks for it. What they've done. Right. You just do what you do on your path. But she came back and said, I want to say, thank you for the love and the encouragement. She went to college. She became a director of a clinic. That's one.

And there, there are many, but she's the one that came back. And that was kind of the realization that this absolutely works. The mentorship and the support that is needed for disconnected disadvantage, foster care youth to come out of a system that want to go to college that want to achieve.

They can do it. And Nancy, Amy, can you imagine that you and I had to support growing up and even if we didn't, it may turned out maybe mediocre for some people and maybe our situation, but for us, it's great. But can you imagine for those kids, it is a disaster, it's a disaster. They don't have that support.

Passionistas: Tell us about where you grew up and what your childhood was like.

Judith: My childhood. I had a mother who was an incredible lady. She went through hardships on her own, but always cared for and supported and foster care kids and adoption. She was a woman that was self-empowered. And not only did she take care of the community, those kids, but also she was.

And incredible business woman in the suburban long Island. So through her divorce, she actually went to the dark night of the soul and she retreated in the basement, but I learned what impairment is. She became a spiritual leader, a universal spiritual leader. Aside from that, her grandmother living in Queens, New York supported the community.

So all many young mothers she would bring, the grandmother would bring my mother's grandmother would bring baskets of food. Diapers anything or not diapers at that time, but a lot of food and anything else that these young mothers needed or the community needed. So I come from that background of giving back to the community when it was time for you to go to college, where did you go and what did you decide to study?

I actually went to, it was the time of the Civil Rights. We were witnessing a lot of stuff going on in New York. We couldn't get gas. There were some violent protests. It was very calm, nothing like today. So my mother decided I'm going to, you're going to go to Indiana. So I spent time at St. Mary's in Indiana.

I actually started the first drug rehab program online in Indiana University, but I had gone to St. Mary's and I worked under Birch by just doing a policy and procedure stuff, but I went into college, wanting to, I saw it teach elementary education and then one day I decided, no, this is not me, even though I wanted to do see it.

I did art and I said, no, I'm going to be a social worker. I'm going to impact whatever policies and procedures there are. That need to be, you know, revamped. I need to be an advocate. So it, my junior year, that's when it started. And then I had gone on to a graduate school in New York City.

Passionistas: So now tell us about your first job out of school. Was that McMann services for children?

Judith: That was Angel Guardian on Long Island. And I worked there for three years. I had some clients in Brooklyn and there was an opportunity for me to go to Fordham Graduate School of Social Services, and they had a one-year program, but because I graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Social Work too. I was able to get into that program at Fordham for a year, and I received my Master's and then moved to New York City following an offer at McMahon, which were run by the Franciscan Missionaries of Mary. And the Franciscans are incredible because they are professionally in all walks of life physicians, social workers, nurses, teachers, and here, they had this organization on 45th Street and First Avenue that it was a small operation.

Maybe we had 200 kids, the budget was a million something. But it made an impact. So I left my graduate school, got hired there as a caseworker, and that's when I started programming with independent living skills. Then later I became the director of social services and I started actually the first HIV foster boarding home program.

Now that was in a time when no one knew what HIV was. An AIDS. Well, we had, we had babies coming in and out of care back in the hospital, back and foster care and no one knew what to do. So I worked with the city of New York and with Ari, I'll never forget Ari Rubinstein and Albert Einstein who they, they were researching what this thing was, this disease and why kids were dying.

And then we established the first foster boarding home program because I had to go to Albany and fight. To get foster parents a better rate to take care of kids that was severely sick. I mean, can you imagine having babies that are going back and forth to the hospital and staying there, coming back, going there? You know, it was an incredible time. And then I became executive director and the first lay executive director of a Franciscan order.

Passionistas: And so why did you move on from there? And did you go to Boston after that?

Judith: The reason I left was because I got a proposal to be married and well, when you're in, you know, in your thirties and you get a proposal and I had proposals, but I thought, Oh no, this is my career, you know, but I got a proposal from my dear husband, but he had to be in Buffalo.

So he is I had to move from, after being executive director for a year, I moved to Buffalo with him, but the agency called me back to be on the board of directors. And then we had gone to Boston just for a year, but I stayed two years because I loved it. I wanted to move there. We had our daughter and I said, this is like the best place in the world. So I stayed there two years and then came back to Buffalo.

Passionistas: What did you do there?

Judith: Well, I was the marketing consultant for the commissioner of social services in Boston. Yeah. And my daughter went to a public school that was incredible. And I absolutely a hundred percent wanted to stay there, but what can you do? Right.

Passionistas: But then you ended up back in New York City.

Judith: So I worked with the University of Buffalo doing clinical trials for depression and women's studies. And then my daughter graduated high school and went on to college and New York City. And I then decided, cause my grants ended my husband and I agreed that I could get a position in New York City.

And then we would just go back and forth, which works for us cause we kind of travel, you know, for work anyway. And that's when I procured a position as director of a clinical director of a mental health facility in Harlem. And I was there for eight years.

Passionistas: What was that experience like?

Judith: It's very challenging. I loved my staff without a doubt. I had about 35 people seven psychiatrists and the rest psychotherapists, and we provided 33,000 visits, medical visits a year, but it was tough because. The community needs so much more than what we were offering. So it was tough. I started in my clinic coordinating healthcare and mental health.

Which is so important for the kids too. You can't just take care of one arm. You have to take care of the whole body, right. Something's going on. So I absolutely loved the community there. Some were dependent on drugs because that's the system, right? It's not just there it's everywhere, but I was really happy to hire a nurse who coordinated health and with us. And psychiatric care.

Passionistas: So now how did all this lead to founding a Home of Champions?

Judith: My daughter said that she had to interview somebody in Panama and would I come with her? And that's the time I was in New York city, my husband and I were going back and forth because he had a job here in Buffalo. And I was in New York and Bethany was at school in NYU, but she was interviewing somebody in Panama.

So I went with her and we decided to go to an off shore, like a, a small, tiny Island. And we did. And you can only bike ride there. So we did that and you don't get too many services there. So we stayed in a tree house and they had bikes, but the bikes were not suitable really, but we took them anyway and we later found out they weren't suitable.

And I fell off a bridge on the bike. I came up and my daughter said to me, and I would, you know, blood was gushing. And she said, when are you going to do this Project? When are you going to do this thing that you love for kids? As I was bleeding, mom, when are you doing it? Do it. You talk about it, like gushing the blood.

I come up, the bike wrapped around my neck does the handle and I went down, but then I was like, and then write your book. Do those things matter now, but that's a story because they were there no clinics. So some guy that was drunk, a taxi guy picked us up and he was throwing beer cans around. He took us to a clinic and he said, these are the symptoms that you have to watch. You're not going to be alive if you have one of those symptoms, because it's takes three hours to get you out of here to a hospital. So it worked.

Passionistas: What were the symptoms?

Judith: You said the symptoms were brain clot. Right? Then I would phase out, but I had no symptoms. I just bled, which was good. I would be dizzy, you know, unconscious, but I had none of those. That was the turning point of that. Because I was, again, I was working full time and it didn't matter. She, my daughter just said, Do it, you're not going to die now, mom.

Passionistas: So tell us about the organization itself and what's, what's the mission?

Judith: I was searching for property. I had gone to New York city looking upstate and found this property. That was perfect. It's an hour away from New York city. And it was the old estate of Floyd Patterson and the training camp of Muhammad Ali, Johannson and of course, Floyd lived there and Tracy Patterson, his son, who's still there in the area. So we purchased it. And for the past few years, it's a startup, we've been doing workshops and we have a champion curriculum.

So our mission is to identify potential leaders in the foster care system. So statistically. 400,000 kids are in care. 26,000 are discharged from care. So you get a kind of perspective. Now, a certain percent, I'm just talking about New York state a certain percent want to go to college. They do want to go.

They want to learn about vocations. They want to learn. So when they are discharged from care, it's either 18 or 21 and some can still remain if they're in college. But what happens is 3% of them graduate from college and it might be a little bit less. So in New York state, statistically, I mean, once they're discharged from care, one out of four become homeless.

One out of four are incarcerated two years after they're discharged, which is, and 42%. And, you know, I have the research to confirm this 42% don't complete high school, but I was, I, the reason that I did this mission and this vision was because of the kids I worked with. If they have an opportunity. Look, what they do.

One went off to college, became a director and that, that was like three or four retreats. And two years of mentoring. So this particular organization that I created is to screen foster care or now disadvantage youth that get to college on their own merit, or want to get to vocational school and have leadership qualities.

So when you look at the issue with kids in foster care, they go from one home to the next. And it's the average three, three transfers a year to different homes, different schools. So what happens is some of them create resiliency. So these what the society calls a misfit. No, some of them. Have this resiliency to adapt their tune into details.

Why you have to go from one home to the next. So when that happens, right, they have this extraordinary creative activity. Those are the kids we want before they get to pimps and create their own business, a fortune that way. But these are the kids. We want the ones that are resilient, you know, the ones that can.

Survive in a college atmosphere and that's what they want. So just let me skip Muhammad Ali said “Champions aren't made in the gyms.” So champions, they have the will and the skill are champions, but what's most important to be a champion is the, will the will. So I've noticed doing the workshops. And speaking was kids doing the workshops that when I have 35 kids in the workshop too, I know that it can be leaders.

Why? Cause they march on forward. They bring the rest of the group. They're not followers they're leaders. So that's our mission to identify future leaders among foster care youth or disadvantage youth. And I'm saying that because there are other kids in homeless shelters that want to go to college that are kicked out of their home because of abuse, but they have a potential and a strong, productive, they want to be strong, productive leaders. So those are the kids were screaming.

Passionistas: You're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Judith Halbreich. To learn more about Home of Champions, visit HomeofChampionsNY.org .

If you're enjoying this interview and would like to help us continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting ThePassionistasProject.com/podcast and clicking on the Patron button. Even $1 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions.

Now here's more of our interview with Judith.

So, how do you find the kids or how do they get involved with the person?

Judith: Right now, I've been connected with New York City agencies and invite them to our workshops. But at this point, we're in a, we're trying we're fundraising to get. The residential part of the programming done. Now, when kids are discharged, I don't know anything about how to take care of themselves in an apartment, in a home. So we're building a tiny home village. So each tiny home is about a little under $20,000.

So on this property, our aim is to get those tiny homes in so they can learn independent living, financing, wellbeing, but it's a metaphor because they're going to learn how to build one. And then we're going to have those on campus for them to live in. But metaphorically, when you build a tiny home, you build the base, the foundation, the walls.

Well, our creation of this curriculum is what is the foundation of your life? You know, what are the rules? What's the roof, what's the interior. So the important thing is a consortium having a consortium and I have connected with not only New York City agencies and linkage agreements with many of them that know me from the past, but also the SUNY.

And then we have West Point coach in boxing who wants to come over. But this one of the things is discipline. If you don't have discipline, you can't do it. So they come over and Tracy Patterson has been at our workshops, just talking about boxing, but what. He's a world champion boxer, but he didn't get there overnight.

He had to have that will and the discipline to do it. And these kids, when I see them in workshops, they get it to two out of 35. And I don't know statistically what that is, but maybe handful get it. And they want to be part of the program and the others. Gradually if that's what they want. So our program is unique because it screens for leadership.

Cause you know, you and I had the opportunity. They don't, they don't have an opportunity and I'm a proponent for kids being in care until age 26. Because when they're discharged, they're discharged with the, I'm not saying agencies do a great job. They try to do a great job. Many of them, these kids are discharged, but they carry a backpack of, I read something, an article about a gal who carried a microwave in her backpack to go to college.

So what is going on? Where are they during COVID where are they? Yeah, they do get computers. Maybe if they're in a foster home or in a college. But really, I mean, I had an online summit and it was free talking about new careers the next 10 years. And it was really dynamic. Many of them couldn't get on for some reason they were absent.

Where are they? So that's another issue during this time we have to figure out. How to change a system. And I mean, it, if they have trouble trying to vaccinate all of us well, and they find a way, thank God to vaccinate all of us. Thank God. Maybe they can find a way on how to connect the disconnected. That is my mission.

Passionistas: What are some of the techniques and things you use in these workshops to help these kids get prepared for their journeys?

Judith: There is a curriculum that we've established. And I have an educator who goes through several methods, right of training. Now we realized just with his methods and then having kids there that basically we had to mentor them and train them on basics, how to use the computer, how to get on social media.

How to be interviewed, what is your goal? Just basic stuff. Now, this is very different than residential because residential that's a whole other and we're not there yet because I have to get these tiny homes in and I can place nine kids in the main house, but I really, and staff. But right now I'm thinking in a bigger way, I realize that they don't have the basics.

So I've invited several agencies and the SUNY at New Paul's business center to talk about just basic financial organization. I have a nurse practitioner who is amazing. She talks about wellbeing. What is wellbeing taking care of? A lot of the kids that come to us we take surveys and. We get their feedback.

They are not motivated or they're stressed out. They're worried about finances. So we have all that information and that's how we program our workshops and what they need. Basically. I noticed that a lot of the kids that are coming from New York City up to that area go back home and they can't communicate with their families after they're freshmen in college, they don't know the basics of living outside of home.

So our programming is going to be a little bit different now because we're going to have retreats on those youth that are going to college, but that spent two weeks with us on an orientation. What it is. To get into school, what will the skills they need and that it has to do with wellbeing, mental health, right?

When you're stressed, what do you do? The horrors of drug addiction, alcohol, all of that. Now I know colleges do that and I know social services do that, but when they're in a community of kids that are going to college, and then I have also a group of students that I'm working with that are going to be like mentors to the kids.

Before they come in. They're so excited. This is the first time I'm using this approach because. A lot of them are in homeless shelters and they want to get to college. They don't know how, but our programming has been very didactic. You know, you can't do so much with two days or three different weeks of training.

You have to see them for a longer period of time. So that's what we're aiming for in the summer. Hopefully we can do this. With COVID. We have to be very strict. And with young team with teenagers that are 18, 19, 16, 17, 18, 19, they have to be supervised with the COVID issue. That's a liability. So we've gone from doing workshops there to virtual, which that doesn't work. It doesn't work.

I don't know where they are and the kids that come on, I could see that they have a support, but the ones that I've invited are not there that were in our workshops. It's like a continuum. I think that there's lack of continuity, wherever they are. Lack of technical support has got to be.

And I know that several different outlets, like Time magazines, writing an article on this, several people are writing articles on this. These are the forgotten kids during COVID, but they were forgotten before COVID. I think it's much better that, you know, we see them face to face. Obviously, but we're going to do our best to do what we're doing now.

Like zooming, some of them don't know how to, or don't have a computer. They don't, and some of them don't have enough food. I don't know what's going on with them. Finances, lack of emotional support. This is a big issue that I don't hear it in the news at all. Where are they?

Passionistas: You mentioned the summit. Tell us more about that. When you did it recently, what was it about.

Judith: We did a summit — Future Ready Summit. And it was an overview. It was very interactive. So our participants were able to interact. It was to find out where they're at and what they need. Now they'd have to, again, be screened. They filled out a registration form.

They went online. It was free. And it was all about what their desire is for vocation or college, what they need to do to get there, like an overview. And then also building a, we haven't done the second, third one yet building a resume and interviewing. But most importantly is what are the jobs? That are out there that are $70,000 plus that you don't need a college education for.

It could be detectives or electrical line checking or electrical system checking. I mean, I didn't know that, but a lot of these kids have their own one wants to be a coder. The other one wants to be a social worker. So what do they need to do? This is what's the focus. And the dialogue. And then first of all, to show them how we're changing rapidly to robotics and what kind of jobs are there and the environment, where can they go to school?

Where financially, cause they do get some financial support and a good deal of it, but we can, they sustain themselves during college. What kind of careers there are, what's a knit community that they can work now. Now, some of them said, Oh, Uber, they could work for Uber because some of them were from New York city gardening because there are gardens in Brooklyn and there are all kinds of positions there.

And then I'm also LinkedIn with an agency that does entrepreneur planning. So if they have an idea to say agencies, fantastic, we it's called. We thrive. They actually sponsor them for an entrepreneurial product and design implementation. And I'm working with SUNY business center. The director there comes in to teach them about finance.

These kids don't know what's available for them. So we're, we're trying to do our best with, to link the kids that are. We don't know where they are. We've done a lot of research as to where they are. Many schools don't want to share because they don't know where they are. So how are we supposed to know?

But we start with what we have and then hopefully when we can manage this without, you know, the COVID crisis, we can get them on campus and start a residential program.

Passionistas: Is there a way for young people in need of support to find you and get involved with the program?

Judith: Right now, I have again, linkage agreements with the agencies, but I've reached out to freshmen in the neighboring colleges. And I have got a group of, of kids that are phenomenal. They're actually assisting with community outreach. They're assisting with creating a critical mass list of where are these kids. All right. You could see it's statistically on paper, or we've got a number of these kids, right? Where are they? So I've got students that are working on it.

I also have a Bronx reporter that is going to start working with me and hopefully I can get her to be on the board, but we're going to try to do TV spots, cable or whatever, because kids watch TV if they don't have computer. And I noticed that if you have 15 minutes segments and you, you girls know this, right?

I mean, this is the way to go, but kids watch TV. They don't go to the computer. Anything we can do to get them. Aware and to find out what they need. And as you know, Nancy and Amy is like I don't know how many articles about the Governor Newsom has increased the budget for foster care youth. In many different ways, I mean, he's given social workers more money to take care of them, family resource centers. I mean, he's really acknowledged that. And surveyed 16 social service agencies in this article to keep up with, it says California foster youth face even more challenges and mid pandemic, but it seems to me that he is on it. So I really appreciate what he's doing.

Passionistas: As allies. How can we, and our listeners support what you're doing.

Judith: If anybody knows anyone that has the same passion that I do. I'm looking for a consortium of a group of people that would be willing to sit in a think tank to see how we can solve this issue of connecting the disconnected.

That's number one, number two, anyone interested in marketing because I'm trying to market and raise funds for community center. If anybody knows a boxer that they could connect with, that would be terrific to spearhead this campaign. Basically that's what is needed, but I do need advocates with the same passion and mission, the same passion that I have to move this ahead.

Anybody in the tiny home business that would like to help us plan it because we're thinking about the tiny home on wheels. Cause then you don't need permits at least in California though. So, and then to be aware of when you, in living in your community, have your ears and eyes open because we need to know where they are, where are the kids?

That are discharged from care in the, even if they would just charge two years ago, what's happening in the homeless shelters. Are they there? Where are they? And to, I guess, support your local Congress person to be an advocate for connecting the disconnected. And I really mean that let's change the system.

If they could do this with COVID right, they're doing it. Maybe we could do this for our youth. Maybe we can have a system where we know where everybody is. Yes. Is it possible? It is.

Passionistas: What's your dream for these kids that you're helping?

Judith: That they love themselves and know, you know, whatever past they've had, that they. Love themselves, who they are and they are diamonds. People just have to see that, but they have to know at first, too. I've had such great opportunity and I'm so filled with, I can't get over these kids that I've met that are amazing. They could change the world and they need to have that support. And you know who the foster, the famous are.

I don't have to tell you well, why? Because they had that one person that cared… only one, one, one person that cared enough to say, you can go to college because you're so smart. Even I didn't have a big mouthand you're telling me you're so smart, and this is how you're going to do it, that encouragement.

So that's what I hope for them because it can be done. To see them flourish is an then to come back. You'd never, you very rarely see that when someone comes back to say it's because of being empowered, that changed my life. And this is a girl who was severely abused. I mean physically with her phalanges off the smart kid smart kid. And she was told that aside from all those physical things that happened to her. So there is a transformation that happens when somebody tells you you're worth it.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Judith Halbreich. To learn more about Home of Champions, visit Home fChampionsNY.org.

Please visit ThePassionistasProject.com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. Get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription using the code SUMMERMYSTERY.

And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast. So you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests. Until next time stay well and stay passionate.

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Santina Muha is a comedian, actress, writer, producer and disability activist. Her many roles in film and television include appearances opposite Joaquin Phoenix in the Gus Van Zant film “Don't Worry, He Won't Get Far on Foot” and the role of Beth on “One Day at a Time.” She recently wrote, recorded and shot a music video called “Ass Level.”

Learn more about Santina on her Instagram feed.

Learn more about The Passionistas Project.

Full Transcript:

Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas Project podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same.

We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking with Santina Muha, a comedian actress, writer, producer, and disability activist. Santina's many roles in film and television include appearances opposite Joaquin Phoenix in the Gus Van Sant film "Don't Worry, He Won't Get Far on Foot" and the role of Beth on "One Day at a Time." She recently wrote, recorded and shot a music video called "Ass Level."

So please welcome to the show. Santina Muha.

Santina Muha: Hello, how are you?

Passionistas: We're good. We're so glad to have you here. What are you most passionate about?

Santina: I'm very passionate about TV and pop culture and all of that. I'm also very passionate about food, particularly Italian food and Italian culture. And I'm very passionate about dogs and animals and tea. I drink tea every day. I drink black tea in the morning. I drink green tea in the afternoon. I drink herbal tea at night, so I do drink more tea than anyone I know.

Passionistas: So let's go back to your childhood and when did you first become interested in pop culture and what was your childhood like and what role did pop culture play in that?

Santina: I was in a car accident when I was almost six years old. Any memories I have walking, I know I was at least five or younger. Right. And I can remember walking every time, like certain commercials would come on, I would jump up and position myself.

Like where would I be in this commercial? Okay. It's Zach, the legal maniac. I'm his little backup girlfriend and dancer, you know, like. And I was in dance when I was little and Oh, and then MTV. So I lived with, I lived in what I like to call an Italian full house because my mom and I moved back in with her parents after my parents got divorced and my two uncles lived in the house and they were young, my mom was 20 and they were her two younger brothers.

So they were still in high school. And I had so much fun living with these cool young uncles. We would watch MTV. I would dress up like Bon Jovi. I mean, cause I'm a Jersey girl. So of course Bon Jovi. It just was always in the background. And then when I got in the accident, I watched beetle juice every day.

They only had two movies on my floor, "Beetlejuice", and "Ernest Goes to Camp", which, so I watched the "Beetlejuice" every day and I played Super Mario Brothers. You could rent the Nintendo for like blocks of time and I would play that. So, I mean, it also kind of got me through some of those hard times where I couldn't leave my hospital room for essentially a year.

And so it got me through those tough times, too. I remember watching PeeWee Herman during my sponge bath every Saturday, it was like PeeWee's Playhouse during the sponge bath, you know? So it, it, it really got me through would watch golden girls with my non that that was my mom's mom and they were Italian off the boat.

So I spoke Italian as much as I spoke, if not more than English growing up. And my Nona who didn't really speak a lot of English and me who was four years old, we would watch golden girls together. So we, we didn't really understand the jokes. But we did know that when Dorothy made a face, the audience laughed right.

I learned some of my comedic timing from Dorothy Zbornak and Sophia on "The Golden Girls", you know, and all of that sort of translated to when I got out of the hospital. And now here I was this little girl in a wheelchair, the saddest thing anyone ever saw, you know, in our society. And they would look at me like, How you doing?

And I'm like, Oh God, I am depressing. So I would have to cut the tension. And I learned from golden girls and one day at a time, which I later got to be on the reboot. All of these shows, I learned like, Hey, make a joke, make a face, do it thing. And then it will ease the tension. It really has helped me just make it through, you know, life.

Passionistas: That seems like a common thread with the women that we've interviewed, who were in the comedy show, that we did that feeling of it's your responsibility to make everybody else feel comfortable.

Santina: Yeah. At six years old, I'm like telling adults. No, it's okay. We're I'm fine. I'm happy. I I'm in school. I have a boyfriend, whatever a boyfriend was at seven years, I held hands with a boy, whatever. I mean, I had to convince everybody that I lose. Okay. All the time. I'm still doing it.

Passionistas: Did you consciously feel that at six years old where you were aware you were doing it? I was adjusting, no, but it's an automatic thing.

Santina: Automatic. I didn't realize it until I was older. That that's what I had been doing. When you're younger, it's really the adults that you have to make feel better because the kids are like, cool. What is that? Can I try? Can I push, can I sit by you? Can I go on your special bus? And then once, once those kids start turning into adults, middle school, high school, that's when you're like, Oh no.

Now they're sad about me or think it's weird or think it's different. And now I had to start dealing with my peers in the same way that I was dealing with the adults, you know, cause kids don't care. First I was crawling, then I was walking. Nobody told me that change. Wasn't tragic. So then all of a sudden I was walking now I'm willing.

So I was like, Oh, that's wrong? Okay. Sorry. I didn't know. You know, as far as I knew, I was just on the trajectory. I didn't know. It was quote, wrong thing until everybody was like, that's not what we all do. And I'm like, Oh, sorry. I don't know. I'm just trying to get from point a to point B. Like you.

Passionistas: You had this love of pop culture, you kind of integrated comedy into your daily life to get through the reactions you were having from other people.

When did that love of comedy and acting become like a real thing for you? Like, I want to do this when I grow up.

Santina: The whole time. I mean, like I said, I would jump up and be in the commercials or, you know, I would watch "The Mickey Mouse Club" after school and put myself off of basically an order and say, Santa Ana, you know, wherever I thought I would fit, I wanted to be on saved by the bell.

I wanted it to be on nine Oh one. Oh. When I was little, I did my mom. I lived in New Jersey, so my mom would take me to audition. Sometimes I had an agent like commercial auditions and stuff like that. But in the end, a lot of times they would say, it's just too sad. You know, we can't sell fabric softener if the girl's in a wheelchair. And it's like, why do you think. That the fab. Do you think people are so stupid?

They're going to think this fabric softener, it's going to paralyze their children. Like what? We don't give people any credit. And then I'm like my poor mother who they have to hit to hand me backdoor and say, sorry, it's too sad to have a daughter in a wheelchair.

My mom's like, okay, well, great. Cause that's what I have. You know, it's like that right. It's up right when I was little, I just thought, Oh, that person stupid. I didn't realize wow. Society is kind of stupid. Sorry to say. No, it's getting better, but I'm talking about, it's just slowly starting to get better now.

And that fabric softener commercial. I was seven. So I mean, w come on six glacial pace here. I was a dancer before the accident and that I still dance like here and there, but I don't know, like comedy was always. Acting, it just always, I went right into the school plays in summer summer theater programs.

And I didn't think there was any reason why I couldn't do it. I just felt like, all right, I got to keep convincing people. I could do this. Just look I convinced them that I could be in the regular class in school and not in the special ed class. So God, there's something wrong with being a special ed, but if you need it, I didn't need it.

I just had to prove to everybody I could be among my peers. At all times, and not now, I'm still doing that in the acting world, but it was just always something I wanted to do. I just felt drawn to the entertainment industry. And in college, I didn't major in theater or anything, but I did major in communication.

So I did a lot of interviewing. And then my first job out of college was I had two jobs. I worked for the national spinal cord injury association and I worked for tiger beat magazine. It's like, I can't escape either one of these, because it's funny in the intro, you called me a disability activist and I'm like, God, am I?

I mean, it's like, I didn't mean to be, but you kind of can't help it because if you're doing anything normal, like in high school, I was a cheerleader and I thought, great, I'm gonna just going to be a cheerleader because everybody wants to, to do wheelchair basketball and wheelchair this and wheelchair that.

And I don't want to, I just want to be a cheerleader and I'm going to buck the system and I'm not going to be an advocate for anything. I'm just going to be asleep there. Meanwhile, I was the only cheerleader in a wheelchair. You can't help, but be an advocate because just because of the fact that people are looking at me.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about your work with them National Spinal Cord Injury Association. What did you do for them?

Santina: I was there communication director and also media point person I wrote for their publication, sci life spinal cord injury life. I interviewed a lot of bull, like different athletes, Paralympians. I worked with the spinal cord injury hall of fame.

I worked with putting that together. And things like that, but it was just all disabilities talk all the time. For me, it was just a little bit of an overload. I wanted to do comedy and it'd be more of a creative. And so eventually I had to leave there and move to Los Angeles and start working in comedy, but taking everything that I learned in all of those connections.

And now I have a show called "Rollin' with My Homies", where I interview other people with disabilities. And when we, when it was on the stage, we did improv off of those interviews, which was really fun, but I'm able to still keep in touch with all of the coaches, the texts that I made at the national spinal cord injury association.

And I know who these people are and what they're done, and I can sort of help bring them into the mainstream, which is my overarching goal is to help normalize the disability and. Where, you know, where if you see someone with a disability on stage, you're not like waiting to see like, Ooh, where's the joke.

I can't wait to see why she's in a wheelchair. You know? It's like, that's not funny. It's not, that's not the joke. Sometimes it's part of the joke, but it is the joke.

Passionistas:  Before we go to LA. So what did you do at Teen Beat?

Santina: We all had those posters on our walls growing up. Right? I mean, if you're pop culture, people, you I'm sure you did.

I did too. You know, Jonathan Taylor, Thomas, right. And Luke Perry is my number one love of my life forever. Everybody knows that. I had a friend who was working there and she got promoted to the LA offices and they moved her out to LA and she, they needed someone to replace her as their East coast correspondent.

And she was like, I have a friend who is very jealous of my job. She would love to do this. I had an interview. And then the very next day from that interview, I was in Manhattan at the opening of Dylan's Candy Shop interviewing Jesse McCartney. Oh. Was so fun. That's good at MTV music awards and movie awards, all these red carpet events, and I was freaking out.

It was so fun. So cool. I got to interview the Backstreet boys and the Jonas brothers and just whoever was hot at the time. Kelly Clarkson, LMF, FAO. You know, he was just really fun. I really loved being able to do that. And sometimes it was hard. Like one time I showed up somewhere and I had to interview someone who was doing Broadway show while they were getting their hair and makeup done.

And it was up a flight of stairs and there was no elevator in that building. And luckily I had my boyfriend at the time had driven me to Manhattan and he was going to go like, have a drink or something while I did my interview. And instead he ends up having to carry me up and down. So there were times where I had to navigate around being in a wheelchair, but I ultimately, I love that that was a job that I was doing that had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I was in a wheelchair.

And then once I moved to LA, I started working with hello giggles, which I also really loved because I was writing more pop culture stuff. And again, when I applied for that, when I sent in my samples and I got the job, it was not based nothing to do with being in a wheelchair. Again, it was just based on my love of pop culture.

And that was another like nice win for me because sometimes you never know, like, Are they giving me an extra edge because sometimes it works in my favor. And then also it's like, wait, did I not get the job? Because I'm in a wilderness. Sometimes it works against me. So you just, it's nice when I don't have to think either way about it.

Have you always been a writer? Yes, I remember in third grade they sent me as the ambassador to represent our school to the young author's club meeting. Every Friday was creative writing day. And then on Monday they would read the best ones. And it was like weird. If, if mine didn't get read on that day, it was like, Whoa, I wonder what happened to Santina on Friday.

And I was, I was a big reader growing up. I went through a hiatus of reading, like once I discovered. Hot to be honest in middle school and high school, not middle school, high school. I started smoking a little, like having partying and then I was like, really? It's not cool. And then when I got older, I was like, Oh yeah, that's right. I like reading. And now I'm back to reading again and now I can do both. Now I can read what I'm gonna look, you know, smoke a joint and read on a Sunday. Hey, why not?

Passionistas: You created the Ask a Woman in a Wheelchair series for Buzzfeed, and it was hugely popular, got 10 million hits and counting. So how'd that come about and why do you think it was so popular?

Santina: They had a few, right. I think they had like an ask a lesbian one or something. And then someone there was like, I want to do a wheelchair one and co contacted me. And, um, and I was like, yes, let's, let's put this together. It's more about addressing the fact that people are asking these questions than it is about answering these questions, because there's a time and a place to answer those questions.

But I think that's why they do well, because I think people see themselves in it. You can't help, but be like, Oh God, I've definitely used the handicap stall before. Or I've for sure. Stared at someone or even gone up and asked somebody what happened. I can't blame people for their curiosity, but think about it.

If you've asked one person what happened. Think about how many times that person has had to answer that question, you know, it's like harmless to ask. That means I've had to answer it. Literally thousands of times I'm writing a book right now where I talk a lot about different things. And it's like, I just want to answer these questions from people because I understand the curiosity.

And by the way, if a child ever asks me, it's like, okay, great. Let's talk about it. But when it's an adult, I'm like, Do you really want to know how I Santina have sex? You want to know what I enjoy personally me? Or are you asking how people in wheelchairs that's like, what are you asking me right now in the middle of the supermarket?

What are we talking? I don't even know you. I get it. But also I'm like, come on. I try to think, like, if I see somebody with an impairment or something, do I want to just go up to them? What up? And it's like, no, I don't. So I don't know. It's a weird, weird line. It's like, we're just not doing a good enough job in.

The representation of people with disabilities in pop culture and in media. And it's always like so dramatic and they want to kill themselves at the end. And then the actor that portrayed them gets an Oscar. Meanwhile, I can't even book a commercial for a fabric softener knowing you're giving him an Oscar it's like, come on.

Passionistas: Absolutely. And, and I think what you said earlier is really important. Like we have to normalize the concept so that people will stop approaching you and asking that question.

Santina: For example, I'm dating, right? I mean, I'm single and dating, right. So sure. Of course, if I'm dating a guy, who's going to want to know like, what's going on, what happened at some point.

Right. But if that's like out the gate, I'm like, I don't know. Do you really want to get to know me? Or like what's, if your profile said you're divorced, it's not like I come at you, like what happened? Who blew it? Who, you know, who was the cause of that divorce? It's like, we'll get to those conversations.

We'll get to them. It's important to know. Everything about the person that you're with, but it is not important to know everything about the person who's sitting next to you at a show or whatever. And then also it's like weird puts like a weird pressure on me where I'm like, okay, I'll answer. I can answer.

But I'm only answering on my behalf because I don't know what XYZ other people do. You know how they drive, how they swim, how they, whatever. I don't know. I can only tell you what I do. So I don't want to answer this question. And then you go off in the world thinking now, you know everything about spinal cord injury, you know, you know what I mean?

I don't even know. I mean, that's part of my, what I love about my. "Rollin' with My Homies" is when I interviewed these other people in wheelchairs, I learned so much and I'm like, Oh, what a great idea I could do that? Or I should be doing that. Or, or like, Oh God, I would never do that. You know, it's, it's interesting to me to see the differences among the community, as well as the similarities.

Passionistas: How did you start that show?

Santina: I went to Italy and I, and I hadn't gone to Italy for. The whole beginning of my life, even though I really wanted to, like I said, I grew up speaking Italian. It is my motherland Sicily in particular, I'm Sicilian. And I just want it to go so badly, but everybody always said, Oh, it's going to be hard.

It's not really accessible. So old. And kind of, I let that get in my head for too long. And ultimately, you know, in my early thirties, I think was when I went and I said to my, my best friend, I was like, Please can we go? And she was going through some marital stuff at the time. So she was like, yeah, let's just go.

So we went, I trust her. I've known her since seventh grade and she's just like a great friend who has always had my best interest in mind. Like when she got her first car, she made sure it was a hatchback cause she could fit my wheelchair in the trunk, you know, and she doesn't even need that. So it was just, I knew she was the right person to go with.

We went to this town in Sicily where my Nona grew up, my grandmother grew up and I was like, pleasantly surprised by how accessible it was. And I said to my cousin, there are so many ramps here. What is going on? It's just an old fishing town in, in Sicily. And she said, Oh yeah, well, you know, if you, years ago we had a mayor or whatever, they call their person there.

And Sicily who decided to spend a day in a wheelchair. And roll around the city in a wheelchair and see what needs to be done. Um, and then he did it and then he put ramps here and there. And I was like, Oh my God. Yes. And it's like, not the exact same thing, but a day in the life can be helpful. We live in a world where people are obsessed with celebrity, right?

So let me, I have some access to some celebrities, some comedians through UCB, let me put them in wheelchairs and see what they learn and then how they can take what they learn now and bring it to the. Grips that they're writing and the shows that are show running and the shows they're directing, that's how it started.

And I did the first one was a fundraiser called don't, just stand there and then it's spun off their slot of wheelchair puns. People it's been off into Berlin with my homies. So I had a show at UCB called that girl in the wheelchair. It was a solo show. And I learned that when people came to see the show, they knew what they were in for.

They knew they were coming to see some disability humor and they could laugh. But when I did, uh, Piece of the show in like a variety or best of show at UCB and people didn't know what to expect or didn't know a girl was going to come out and start making fun of disability life in any way. The audience was like, Oh my God, are we, can we laugh at this?

I don't. What's she doing? She making fun of disability. Wait, is she really in a wheelchair? Like they didn't. Right. And so I learned that. I had to again, make my audience comfortable with disability before I could even start making these jokes. And so I found that if we first made fun of the episode of saved by the bell redacted thrill on the wheelchair, right?

The episode of "90210", their cousin Bobby comes to town and he's in a wheelchair. If we first made fun of that, then I could get my improvisors on board. Cause even the improvisers didn't want to touch. The wheelchair humor. I had been the monologist for as cat, you know, UCBs like flagship show four times.

And I would tell great stories about being in a wheelchair. And they would even the most seasoned improvisers would often take the wheelchair element out of the story. And I'm like, Nope, that's why it was funny. But they were like, I know, but we can't do that. So I said, okay, here's what we're gonna do.

We're gonna spend the first half of the show making fun of Zack Morris and NBC and the eighties. Then I'm going to bring up a person in a wheelchair. The second half of the show, I'm going to interview them. And by then, you're going to feel comfortable doing the wheelchair humor. And it worked, it really worked, but it took me a long time to sort of like figure out how to disarm people and get there.

And it works for the audience as well. So I think that's some of the things I've like honed over the years is how to incorporate disability and with comedy and make it okay. Cause you can't just come at people with a joke and they're like, are we allowed to laugh at that? You have to make, unfortunately. Make them comfortable first it's annoying, but it is what it is.

Passionistas: I imagine nowadays people are even more overly sensitive towards not laughing at things because they're trying to do the correct thing. And so even though it's becoming more of an awareness for people, is it, is it in somehow in some ways, a little bit harder now or is it getting easier?

Santina: It's both, it's harder, but in a way that it just makes you work a little smarter work a little harder. You didn't have to figure it out. Yeah. It's hard, right? Because you don't want to insult anybody. And that's really hard because there are people out there who are looking and to be insulted. There's a quote.

I love that. I try to remind myself constantly, which is you could be the juiciest, ripest peach, and there will still be people who don't like peaches. If I make my jokes, like if I try to make them too inclusive, I'm, I'm always going to be leaving somebody behind and then I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

You can't please everybody with every single joke with every single thing with her. And I'm writing this book of essays right now, and there are times where I'm like, Oh God, this is going to piss somebody off. I know it. No pun intended paralyzes me as a writer of like, then maybe I just won't. But it's like, no, you've got to put the book out because you're going to help more people than you're going to hurt.

But I don't want to hurt anybody, but, uh, it's a lot. We're all, you know, we're all as content creators, we're all dealing with this. Right. But it is scary because we are at a time right now where you don't know even something that's okay to say today might not be okay to say next year. And you're like, Oh shit.

Now it's in print. Once it's published, it's that it's done. You know? And even if I changed my mind or my point of view, which is. Something that has already happened to me, even from drafts that I've written, you know, before COVID times. And I'm like, Oh wait, this is, I gotta change this. You know? So it happens once it's out there, you know, good luck to us all.

Yeah. You have these open conversations with people and it's like, okay, you know what? That's true. That's sorry. I didn't realize that's messed up. So as well, I just, I want to be aware and. I try to give people the same courtesy. Like if someone says something that I feel like is sort of abelist, which is a term that even, I only learned in the past few years, I mean, people were being able as to me all my life, but I didn't know that's what it was called or what it was, but I try to educate before I cut people down or out, it depends on my mood.

I said early in the beginning, you know, if you get me on a compassionate day, great. But if you get me like on a day where I'm just like, I've had it, I don't know.

Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. And you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Santina Muha. To keep up with her projects, follow her on Instagram @SantinaMuha.

If you are enjoying this interview and would like to help us continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting the Passionistas Project.com/Podcast and clicking on the patron button. Even $1 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions.

Now here's more of our interview with Santina.

Passionistas: Was it through UCB that you hooked up with Amy Poehler to do the conversation on disability and comedy? Can you tell us about that?

Santina: I love her so much. Yes. I met Amy Poehler at UCB in the hallway one time and I was just like, woo. Oh my gosh. It was like, because she's, you know, she found it she's one of the four founders of UCB.

Uh, and so she's like the queen and it would be like running into Dave Thomas, right. His daughter at Wendy's. Right. So it's like, and, and I, I introduced myself to her. I was just a student at the time. And then I kind of came up through the ranks of UCB and became a performer. And then, you know, when they opened up.

The sunset location, which we were also excited about was just recently as closed now, which we're also sad about. We had a big opening party, you know, and I was on a house team at the time. So we got to like decorate and Amy was there. All the, everyone was there. Everybody was at that party and dance and just together, all of us dancing.

And it wasn't like we were there to watch Amy perform. We were all, all performance together. It was like, amazing. Oh my God dreams just coming true left and right for me, And then we kept in touch and then, you know, she did that. She directed that film wine country on Netflix. And she sent me an email that was like, I need a voice of a receptionist and she's from the East coast, too.

And she's like, and I feel like receptionists are always, they always sound like a little sweet, but a little bitchy. And I feel like that's how you sound. So could you come be the boy? I'm like, yup. I just like, felt so seen I'm like, that is what I am that's me. She nailed it. So I'm like, she got me. And then after COVID and there was a lot of issues with, you know, UCB in the way they handled diversity and inclusion and stuff like that.

And they made a lot of mistakes and they, you know, they're working on those mistakes. So a few of us started this group called Project rethink, where we addressed a lot of those issues. And Amy and Matt Bester, I met Walsh, Indian Roberts or the other founders, and they were all involved. We had a bunch of zoom meetings with them to tell them here's what we as marginalized.

Comedians feel, you know, we have all different types of marginalized comedians in Project rethink. So Amy and I got to talk over zoom that way over quarantine. And then through emails, we were like, Hey, why don't we do something like take this time that we have, that you see these not running right now that we have this sort of extra accessible platform accessible, meaning we can reach more people than just the people that can come to the LA location and do this thing we did.

And Amy is very passionate about giving a voice to comedians. That wouldn't otherwise, you know, or, or trying to do that, whether it's women, she has her smart girls thing and just UCB in general was created for that purpose to give comedians a platform.

Passionistas: Tell us about your experience working on the film “Don't Worry, He Won't Get Far on Foot.”

Santina: That was amazing. That was also through. UCB because they came, you know, Gus Van Sant, who directed that film. It's a very serious film, but he wanted it to have some levity. So he thought, well, I know what I'll do. I'll hire comedians to play the doctor, to play the journalist, to play them.

So that even though the topic is serious, there'll be some level of levity within. I think that, you know, there was like a smart move by Gus. So he came to UCB. It's based on a book written by a humorous too is quadriplegic. And he had a friend. In rehab, who was a spunky brown haired girl in a wheelchair.

So they came in, they're like, Hey, do you have this? And they were like, actually we do have one of those. They called me in for this audition. And then I got the call back and the callback was with gusta and sad and Francine Maisler, who's cast it, all these great things that, you know, when you're an actress, like the casting people are celebrities stress, right?

So I'm like, Oh my God, I'm going to be friends. I went in and did the call back. And I knew like, you know, sometimes you just know like, Oh my God, you know, you just can tell. A lot of people who have spinal cord injuries, what we do is we celebrate the day of our injury. It's like, because you could either mourn the loss of your legs or whatever, or you can celebrate the fact that you survived on this day.

When I was in high school, I locked myself in my room and I was very email about it. And then somewhere in college, on it's my anniversary is March ninth. I decided I it's. So when I had my accident, I was. At Robert Wood Johnson hospital in new Brunswick, New Jersey. So I always have like a bad connotation attached to new Brunswick.

Then when I went to college, I went to Rutgers, which was also in new Brunswick, New Jersey, and also the four most fun years of my life. So it kind of switched, you know, the way I thought about new Brunswick and being so close to Robert Wood Johnson. I said, one March night, I said, you know what, let's go bring flowers to the adolescent ward where I stayed.

There were two nurses sitting at the desk. One was sitting a little further off and one was sitting up front and I went up to the one sitting up front. I said, hi, I just want to give you flowers and thank you for everything you've done and everything you do as a nurse, you know, I was here many, many years ago.

I had a car accident and I was here and the nurse at the far end of the station goes Santina. And I was like, Oh my God. And she came over and she goes, Oh my God, you look the same, whatever she's telling the other nurse, this is Santina and this is San Antonio. And they're just like, Oh my God, you're saying, so it was like such, you know, I had made already an impact here and I thought, okay, this is what I need.

This is the universe telling me, this is the way to go. Now you do something like this every year on this day, because you've made an impact and you've got to keep doing that. So then every year on my anniversary, I would do something nice. And this one. Other things I've done is one year I had a roller skating party and I rented out the roller skating rink.

And I put all, because I said, we're all my friends were all on wheels today. Right. We're all going to be on wheels. And that was nice. So anyway, it just so happened that my first shooting day of don't worry, it was on March 9th. So I got to spend that day, that year in a park, right with Joaquin Phoenix and Gus Van Sant, directing us, just dancing in the park with walking Phoenix, both of us in wheelchairs. I mean, it was amazing. That's when you know, those are the times the universe is telling you you're on the right track.

Passionistas: So in 2018 you were cast as Beth on the TV series, the reboot of "One Day at a Time." So how did that come about and tell us a little bit about your experience on that show.

Santina: That was another thing where a friend of mine who I'd met through UCB was good friends with Gloria Calderon Kellett was the showrunner was the showrunner of "One Day at a Time."

And she said, you gotta meet my friend Santina. I think she'd be a great addition to the show because one day at a time was great about inclusion and diversity and not making a big deal about things and just kind of normalizing them. And I think that she would be a great addition to the show and Gloria was like, Oh my God, I know Santina.

And I've seen her perform at UCB. She would be great. And then they offered me this part. I do not do audition. So like we have the main character. Penelope is a veteran she's in the support group and the support group is run by Mackenzie Phillips, who was the original daughter on the show who, like I said, I used to watch with my nonna.

So another full circle moment for me to be sitting there in this support group now with Mackenzie Phillips and my nonna used to wear this ring. And I remember like I would play with the ring while we watched TV together. And I would wear that ring on the show every, every time. Just to kind of like, I'm really big on all that stuff.

I'm big on full circle moments and I'm big on like that happened then to get me to where I am now, you know, I pay attention to all this stuff. And what I loved about doing one day at a time is that it was like the best of, of all of my worlds here, because it was a multi-camera. And so for people who don't know multicam is like, when you're watching a show like full house or family matters or whatever, where the audience is laughing.

Right. And it it's. So you get to shoot the show. In front of a live audience. So that's like the improv, but then also you get hair and makeup and craft services and you get to tell your family and friends what channel it's on. Right. Which is something you don't get from improv. So I got to do both things at the same time that I loved and feed off of the audience, but then also tell my family, you know, what time they could watch it and where, and when.

And then I got to work with all of the, I mean like Rita Moreno. Are you kidding? Me and Jesse Machado, who I loved on "Six Feet Under". And I was just like in awe of everybody around me, Judy. Right. It just, I feel like now I have to, I'm not going to mention everybody because all of them, Oh, it was the best. It was the best. And I've been on like other sets. They're not all the best. That was great.

Passionistas: You're not just a comedian. You're not just an actress. You're a creator. And I think that's really important to give you a chance to talk about that.

Santina: I have two films that are actually at slam dance right now. And one is "Ass Level", which is a comedic, you know, parody, rap song type thing, where I talk about all the perks of being in a wheelchair, because I thought, God, everybody's always talking about how much it sucked all the time, but sometimes like it's a cut the line sometimes, you know, I get free parking.

So I thought, Oh, you know, rack is like a fun way to like brag, you know? And it's like, I, I grew up loving. Uh, Salt-N-Pepa and Missy Elliott and all this like will kill all was like really fun. Nineties raps. I wanted to paint, pay homage to that. I also did for the Easter Seals disability film challenge this year, the, the street last year, the theme was the genre they gave us was documentary.

And so the, my team that we decided we were going to do the spilled challenge, we were like, Oh, okay. Now we've got to make a documentary. All right. We're all coming to, you know, comedic creators. So we're like, well, What are we going to do? And I said, here's something cool. In COVID times I've been meeting all these people over zoom and they don't know I'm in a wheelchair until I tell them, which is very different because usually people see me, they see the wheelchair and right away that that's everything.

Now that I tell them it's filtered or wow, she's in a wheelchair. And she did that. She was in a wheelchair and she did that. Right. So it was really like, this is interesting. I get to meet people. They get to know me first and then I can fold the wheelchair into the conversation. So we did a documentary and that's called full picture.

It's doing really, really well getting great reviews. It's a short doc and I hope people check it out because I learned some stuff about myself too, in my own, like sort of implicit bias that I had internalized ableism that I have, you know, from whatever media and pop culture has put into my head. Right.

And I'm really proud of that and proud of this book. And I'm also writing two movies right now, one by myself and one with two writing partners. And I'm just trying to create content, especially now that. In this time where I can't really, you know, go anywhere, do anything because the world is on pause. There's a great opportunity to, to write. And that's what I've been doing, just so I don't feel like lazy.

Passionistas: What advice would you give to a young woman who is living with a disability?

Santina: If you think you can't do something, then. And you probably aren't thinking of all of the ways that you could do it. You might not be able to do it like this, but I I'm sure that there's a version of the thing that you want to do that you can do.

Or maybe that thing that you want to do is leading you to the next thing of whatever it is. Right. So just know that even if it doesn't look like. What you're imagining sometimes it's not about the experience of the circumstance, but the feeling that you, that you have. Right. And you can achieve that, feeling, doing something, doing something you'll get there. Right. You'll get to that feeling. Even if it doesn't look externally, like what you thought it would.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Santina Muha. To keep up with her projects, follow her on Instagram @SantinaMuha.

Please visit ThePassionistasProject.Com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women-owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. Sign up for our mailing list to get 10% off your first purchase.

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Tammy Levent is a keynote speaker, business strategist, best-selling author and TV travel correspondent. Tammy is the founder of Elite Travel, an award-winning national travel agency and the founder of It's My Bag, a nonprofit organization that donates suitcases to children in foster care. Tammy most recently launched Heavenly Puffs, a classic Greek dessert that are like donut holes with the policing crunchiness on the outside, and a unique fluffy, airy interior.

Having overcome many obstacles in her personal life and career, Tammy is on a mission to teach others that it's truly not what happens to you, but how you deal with your situation and move forward. She proudly shares her remarkable rebound story as a lesson for others who are currently suffering.

Learn more about HeavenlyPuffs.

Learn more about The Passionistas Project.

Full Transcript:

Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking with Tammy Levent a keynote speaker, business strategist, best-selling author and TV travel correspondent.

Tammy is the founder of Elite Travel, and award-winning national travel agency and the founder of It's My Bag, a nonprofit organization that donates suitcases to children in foster care. Tammy most recently launched Heavenly Puffs, a classic Greek dessert that are like donut holes with the policing crunchiness on the outside, and a unique fluffy, airy interior.

Having overcome many obstacles in her personal life and career, Tammy is on a mission to teach others that it's truly not what happens to you, but how you deal with your situation and move forward. She proudly shares her remarkable rebound story as a lesson for others who are currently suffering. So please welcome to the show, Tammy Levent.

Tammy: Thank you. Thank you. I enjoy being here.

Passionistas: What are you most passionate about?

Tammy: I'm passionate about the travel industry since I still own Elite  Travel, but I also have a consulting business, which is Task, which I felt like people were stumbling over travel. Host agencies came in, they didn't know how to up, I'll travel for travel agents and online's ended up ruining a lot of businesses. So I ended up getting the consult business and that's doing amazing. We're sold out for this June in Cancun.

Everything I do. I think I'm passionate. I really can't single it out. I have the charity, it all ties into travel. I get suitcases for foster care kids. We've gotten over 20,000 suitcases now. And recently I have a manufacturer of suitcases that gives us their older versions or models of their suitcases.

[Honestly, they look the same. There's no difference, but I'll take the suitcases for the kids and they deliver probably 300 every other month to us brand new for kids. And they're in Canada and they ship them all the way to Florida for us on their dime. So it's great. And then of course my new adventure, which has been crazy, it's a rollercoaster.

I mean, who would think of 58? I'm starting a new business. I would never think that this is time that you think about retiring.

Passionistas: That doesn't seem like a word that's in your vocabulary.

Tammy: No, it's not. My daughter does when you get to retire and I go, wait, what is that? I think I'm a control freak. So I don't think it's a matter of sitting back and doing nothing because even if I was to retire, I would find something to do.

I just can't do nothing. Like I know people that are retired that basically sit around the house to gardening and really don't do anything. If I did that, you just might as well bury me because it's not, it's not gonna work well for me.

Passionistas: We just talked about the end. Let's go back to the beginning. Tell us about your childhood, where you grew up and what your childhood was like.

Tammy: I grew up in New York. I am from immigrant parents. I think I heard about the war about at least 10,000 times growing up, my mom was a war baby. She went through world war two. She had [00:03:00] a baby brother that died in our arms at two years old from starvation. So took them two weeks to bury the baby. You know what I mean?

I heard these stories over and over again. My grandmother was a red cross volunteer, met my grandfather at a hospital because her husband. At the time was not my grandma's not my biological grandfather. He died during the Albania or so it seems like there was war after war, after war, back in those days.

And I listened to a lot of that. I learned to not to be frugal because they were very giving, but I learned to save money. I learned from a young age, you're not going to throw food out. Or make something else with it. Like my grandmother would have leftovers and now she made something else, completely else different with it.

And I know from my children do the same thing, but I know of my children's friends who just like, Oh, throw it out. I didn't grow up that way. That's like the worst thing you could possibly do. I hated it, but I learned fluid Greek. I know how to read it, write it, speak it. I was the first born here. So there was a lot that I had to sometimes translate for them.

And I was the only child my mother met my father. She was 15, he was a very famous singer. He was an actor. In fact, I found an old ticket of his not too long ago. And he was charging in 1957, $15 to go to his concert. So he was very famous. His songs are still played until today and, but he was 30 and she was 15.

That was normal back then. The sad part of it is he was very abusive. I found out later in life that he was a big a mess. He was already married in Greece with a family. They ended up coming here, met my two brothers and my half brothers and my half sister eventually. But what a way to, to find this out later on.

He was extremely emotionally and physically abusive with my mother. And with me later on, mostly not sexually abusive, which I'm very shocked about because he did rape my three-year-old niece. And ended up in jail for quite a long time in Greece. And that was not that long ago. Then he died about four years ago, but I stopped talking to them when I was 12, but I spent a lot of time with my grandmother.

My parents were entrepreneurs. They owned a smaller restaurant than a bigger restaurant, and they made so much money that they had property in the Hamptons. They had a bowling alley that had two other restaurants. They had yachts, but they didn't forget about me. I mean, they were still in my life, but it was like a part-time parents and full-time grandparents.

If that makes sense. I learned a lot from my grandmother. I mean, that's who pretty much raised me. And a lot of who I am today has a lot to do with her, instilling with me with a lot of things. When I was little, all my friends it's coming, I went to a private school to see my big fat Greek wedding. It's the same type of, you know, the mascot and the whole lunch thing.

And that's what I went to school with. But I, you know, how they talked about the Greek thing. It's exactly the same thing. Um, but I used to get teased a lot because I never was allowed to really wear pants. Don't in school, we wear dresses. I was different. I was not normal. There was something different about me.

I don't know what it was like. I think it's because my parents had so much money. I was raised differently when I would go with them to the restaurant. They wouldn't spend time with me, so they would send me upstairs. So the girls that were in charge of decorating the Macy's windows and Harold square, I mean, how lucky can you get right.

But I was little, I didn't understand now I get it. But I was with the sales team all day. It's like listening to Tony Robbins all day, but you're a child and you're listening to this and you're learning, I guess I was absorbing and then watching my parents work and work and work and work. And then they sent me away on vacation to Greece by myself.

When I was seven, I was the first child to ever cross international waters. Without an unaccompanied adult and not jury war, like for no reason. Okay. The kid's going on vacation by herself to Greece. Yeah, that itself. I remember it like, it was yesterday, it was very frightful, but I mean, that was my upbringing.

And then they moved to Florida and then I went from the straight private school to a school that I could do anything I wanted to. And I was just not used to that. My mom used to be a seamstress. So she used to sew on the side and by then they were divorced. Now my parents work and I used to find her vote patterns.

Like we're like really chic in New York and Paris, but not here in Florida, maybe two years later or something. So I used to wear the freakiest looking clothes to school, and I used to get always like, who is she? What is she, what does she do? And, and teased again. But I think I created that myself, but I didn't care.

I've always been a free spirit of do whatever you want and do what you feel is right and best and what makes you feel good? And I've been that way since a young girl. And, uh, I think that's, what's also developed me and made me who I am today because I pretty much do whatever I want and say what I want.

And it's gotten me to a lot of trouble sometimes, and maybe lost some deals along the way. But at the end it feels good. Like it was the right.

Passionistas: So what was your first business venture and how old were you?

Tammy: I had to lie about my age, going to my first job. I started working at probably 13 years old for my parents. And then I moved to New York when I was 16. I graduated when I was 16 and I graduation day, I told my mother I'm leaving for New York. She goes, where are you staying? I go, I don't know. I'll figure it out. When I get there. She's like, you can't just go to New York and figure it out when you get there. I'm like, why not?

So I go to New York and I went to a laundry mat. I remember back in the day, we didn't have cell phones. We didn't have computers. I had a sheet of paper on a wall. And it used to be strict with phone numbers, like maybe in your door or something like looking for a roommate or whatever, get that's how I found my roommate in the worst neighborhood, in New Jersey, in East orange, New Jersey.

Like, can it be any worse here? Anyway, and then I worked for my uncle a little bit, who was weird, um, but that wasn't too long and then six months working for him. And then I worked three jobs. What a surprise. I worked in two diners, working as a hostess at a rest in a waitress that was when I only have three hours sleep.

And then I worked for this shipping company and this shipping company was shipping overseas and needed only someone to speak Greek. That's all they wanted. Wow. That's not what they got. So I was fans, lady for them and it was that's where I met my husband, but he was my boss at the time. And I was 17, but I had a lie because there's going to hire me in 17.

So I told him I was 18 just to get in and get the job. And I was translating. And one day they left me there by myself. When people walked in and I said, Oh, I could sell you a refrigerator, washer, dryer, the whole kitchen, the whole apartment. I can do it myself. So I sold everything and they came back and they were like, wait, First thing I yelled at for, cause I'm supposed to only be the translator, like assistant.

I'm not supposed to be selling anything. Yeah. Oh, you're pretty good. Okay. So they kind of annoyed me because I found out that they didn't have any competition. I'm like, what world are we at? It's 17, but there's no competition. So I decided to go against my boss, go to him, his shipping company that he shipped with and asked them if I could create all new business.

Within their company as a first strategic partnership, no money with the appliances and say, I could speak Greek you're Greek. Why are you buying from him? He's taking away your customers. Why don't I come in and let me start my own division here with the appliances. And at the time I was 17. When I started the negotiations, it was December.

So it was like 17 and a half. By the time I was just turned 19. 19 years old in charge of all the appliances that they never even had before in that company.

Passionistas: That's incredible. And that's just the beginning of the story.

Tammy: The very beginning.

Passionistas: When you ultimately moved to Florida in 89, you opened a jewelry store.

Tammy: I moved to Florida because I was pregnant and I wanted to be near my mom. And you are my family. So, and the export business was slowing down because then it became open trade in Europe. So I ended up, we sold our portion of the company. We came down here. I had a lot of complications during my pregnancy on my daughter wants me to come out at six months and I was in the hospital probably for a good month and a half.

While I was in the hospital, my nurse was worrying like the biggest, most gigantic diamonds I've ever seen in my life. I'm like, are you sure you work as a nurse? And she's like, yeah, my husband owns a diamond company. I said, Oh, I don't want to know more about that since I was in the hospital for so long where I was, I came in to visit me.

And I said, Oh, I'm really intrigued. Maybe when I'm out of here, I'll open up a jewelry store. We opened up on Halloween day and then five years later, we had an armed robbery. They came in and they robbed and beat my ex-husband now, but, uh, pretty bad, 50 to 60 blows to his head to the point that it was very violent till he was brain damaged.

In fact, when I went into the hospital, I kept on telling him that that's not my husband. He was so disfigured that I couldn't even recognize him. And we lost everything. Everything at that point, the angel, the shore, everything that we got robbed, my kids were young. And then I started, then I went to work in a telemarketing company, total Loyola room.

When I tell you I worked for a company that was a boiler room every day, I thought that somebody was going to come in and I was going to get arrested. But at the time I didn't have a choice. I had to do whatever I had to do to support my family. My husband wasn't able to do anything. And I was working about 14 hours a day, seven days a week, selling fake trips.

And the police did come in about a year later, but it wasn't because of the business they came in and they asked for me, that was because we just found out that my grandmother was driving the car. She passed out at the wheel and my daughter, who was nine at the time. And my baby was two to control the car to save her brother.

And she turned the steering wheel and her grandmother. Died on the impact. They hit a brick wall going 45 miles an hour. And my grandmother's body when she turned the steering wheel to the right fell on top of Katie, my baby took off his seatbelt and jumped in the front seat to be with his sister and his grandmother, not knowing.

And he flew out of the windshield and he had an orbital eye fracture. They told me they didn't know if he could see my daughter's face, went into the air conditioning duct, and her mouth was open from screaming that the. Do you know where the vent is, where the AC is, that comes out. That blower went right into a ramp and completely severed her tongue and then cut all of the inside of her mouth.

And her kneecap was cut as well. They told me how fortunate I was, my grandmother died. So at the time, now you have to understand it's only about a year later. We have no money. My husband's still has brain damage. She never even came to the hospital. It's like, he was just in another world. My children were both in intensive care.

I didn't know how I was going to find them. I just prayed and said, just God given to me anyway, and we'll figure it out. Uh, we had the funeral to deal with that. I, I didn't know what to do. And I was working at this, the telemarketing place. We just moved into a bigger location and they just gave me a new position as Tammy the trainer.

To train all their 500 employees when I started with them, those 20, because I was the top sales person to train all their employees. And they gave me a whip, the pleather weapon. That's how the whole WHIP IT story starts. And I was sitting in the hospital, looking at this whip and all I could think about it was Easter week and Holy week.

And all I could think about is how Christ sustained all this torture. And I'm like, but I don't understand why. And I'm looking at this pleather little whip. And then I came up with incredible Women Having Infinite Power In Themselves. WHIP IT. My license plate says it. I have an avatar that says it. I would have it a lot that I do. I have a WhipIt.com. A lot stems from that.

And while I was in the hospital, my kids were in there for a while. A nurse came in and she said, if it had nothing to do with money, what would you do? So I would travel the world and she goes, that's your passion. That's what you need to do. I can't really say what I said, because as I said, yeah, I'm really going to pull in the money out of my, you know, what I will get out of?

Like, are you crazy? Do you understand that I lost everything? She gave me a newspaper the next day. And I found a job in outside sales built this guy's company, and then he retired. I took over and when I started my own, it was minus 180,000 and I built it over 180 million in travel business today, but just think it all started from.

That room in the hospital. So nothing is impossible. Nothing, nothing is impossible. I don't believe in problems. I believe in only solutions. I don't believe in “I need money” because I proved it over and over again, you could start a business without any money. I have an ebook. I think you guys downloaded it. I got a little message that you did. It gives you examples of how many strategic partnerships that I've done along the way.

Passionistas: How did you take it from nothing to what it is today?

Tammy: There's a lot of things that I did as first. And a lot of people don't know I'm going to share that with you. The worst thing that happened to me is that I decided to, I, I, I had his company, he told me to go around the block and get corporate accounts.

Like, let's say you have an insurance company and go and get that corporate room. Well, what's he going to do? What kind of travel was that going to be? So I really thought about where I should be in who I should be contacting. So my very first contact. Was Frito-Lay and PepsiCo, because I knew somebody who worked there and I ended up getting that account and we did the Herman lay award, which was half a million dollar budget account.

And I did this huge event for them and it went flawless and they loved me and it was great. Then the next account I got was like Ikon office solutions. You know, them from the copiers, they were around the corner, but I knew the girl there. So. I don't throw away people. In fact, I still have every business card that I've ever collected from day one that someone gave me, even from the time I'm in New York, it's a filing cabinet.

That's huge. I can't throw it out. Or any of the cards out. It's a really bad thing to have because I could use the space, but I feel like I'm throwing people out. And it's so funny to look at some of these because some of the numbers on them, even from New York still have letters. I mean, even back then, there were still using them in some of these businesses that were still using old cards that just a name and a phone number was no email.

There was nothing logos were like hardly anybody had logos, but I collect people. So join that sometimes when I need someone I'll look, look through it and say, Oh, well now it's used, I can Google that person and find them again, or search them on Facebook, what I need, you know? And I always built, I always say in strategic partnerships, you need to bring what you have to the table and what your assets are and what your attributes are to bring to the table.

And then you have to know what Amy's attributes are Nancy's are and what they could bring to the table. So what I wanted to spin off and leave my home. Cause I was working from home, which is so weird, isn't it like, that's where it all started. And here we are backing in is back to where it started. So leaving my home, I really wanted to leave and I needed a partner, but I didn't have money for an office.

I didn't have that kind of money. So I went ahead and started looking, where would I look? Where would I look to find somebody that's in the travel business? That's the top of their game. That would listen to me and say, I have 3 million and following I'd like to partner with you open up the Tampa Bay business journal.

And it had a book of list and it lists the top travel agencies in the entire area. The first one was like, Amex. Second one was like, AAA I'm like, okay, third one down was this company called Bay travel. And this is how the conversation went. I can't even make this up. Well, we travel. Yeah. Hi, this is Tammy Levent is the owner in that's Don Allen.

And, um, what did you need? I said, well, you tell him that I have $3 million in following that I'd like to bring to the table and partner with him. She goes, hold on place. And gone comes on the phone. He's like, what? I go, yes, I have a following of business. I'm willing to give you 30% of it. If you could just give me a home for my business, I don't need anything else from you.

That's all I need. Okay. Come in and talk. Within a week, I was there. So I was there for like two years and it was time for me to move on because as changes were made, I didn't pay rent. I didn't do anything game 30%. He did not want to conform with the changes. Does that make sense? Like we saw commissions were cut.

He didn't want to charge fees. He was only corporate corporate, corporate corporate. I was leisure, leisure, leisure. Cause I knew that leisure was more money. And I enjoy planning a trip for Nancy and Amy. I did not enjoy planning a trip for the guy who called me and see two way and said I wanted one a, I just did not do it for me.

You know what I mean? I hated it. So. I told him that I was leaving. I left on September 1st, 2001 with my own place, with everything really super excited had 22 employees moved into this place in Clearwater, but before 9/11. We had a really bad hurricane hit. And I came into the office to check up on it over the weekend after the hurricane, it I'm like, I'm good.

I'm in an office building the roof leaked. It was a flat roof. And all the ceiling tiles fell on every computer that we had, everything was like gone. Thank God I had insurance and it took a minute to get the claim done. But then of course, 9/11 happened all my new employees that were with me left.

They're like, okay, travel agencies are gone. And all the customers that I had, I was on the phone with each and every one of them saying, Hey, it's $200 deposit. Really gonna make a difference if he canceled today, if you wait 30 days in 30 days, if you still want to cancel, we'll go ahead and we'll refund you the money because to break a habit.

Or to make a change or to forget something will take about 30 days. So I knew this and going in with it, and that's why I was like playing psychiatrist with all these people, not to cancel their trip that I saved each and every person.

And at the time that that happened was also something we markable right before then sandals was doing their, their wedding. But nobody in as a travel agency was selling destination weddings. I was the first to do that. So my business has soared from $300,000 a year, let's say at leisure bookings to like 3 million in one year doing destination weddings. And that same year I was writing for AOL wedding I'll dash for the, not for brides.com.

They had all these forums that I was speaking in, and I was getting so much business because I was the guru of destination weddings. So I started that and we really built that. So we had that going to all these weddings. Now I want to cancel. I'm like, just wait, just wait. There was only one person, only one that actually canceled.

So, but then we stuck with it with a little team that we had and we just kept plugging away. The first thing that I did was get an equity line on my home to make sure that all my employees were getting money. And then I just started calling all my creditors and said, Hey, this is what's going on. Can you work with us?

And everybody did at the time, not like now they don't care. You know, it was a little different, you could discuss things and talk things then. But what happened to me a 9/11 is what saved me today during COVID. I knew exactly what to do the minute I heard. You have to train your brain to think the way that I do.

I don't think I was born with this. I think I've trained myself through these years. What to do in a crisis, how to overcome it. Like I was watching the list the other day and it says, Oh, it seemed that most Americans now are saving money and they're frugal. And the things that were important to them back then were not important.

Now you should've been doing that from day one, maybe because my grandmother told me this, like during the war, what's important. What's not important. A label is not important. We all like it. Yeah. Like my Louis Vuitton purse. But do I have to go out and get a hundred of them? I don't think it's that important.

It's certain things, certainly criteria, certain, certain things are in our lives that we don't need. At the end of the day, when we're gone, we want to leave a legacy. We want to leave something, invest back into yourself because that's what you have. And that's the only thing that you have is your own.

Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Tammy Levent. To learn more about her delicious Greek dessert visit HeavenlyPuffs.com. Now here's more of our interview with Tammy.

You have a problem, something happens to you. What's your initial reaction is your initial reaction to go to the place of, okay. What do I do? Or do you have like a period of time where you kind of let it wash over you?

Tammy: My kids were tragic. I didn't have time to think I had a funeral. The husband, no money, everything got thrown at me. And the first thing that was the most important was what the kids. Right. We have to get them better.

And then I evaluate, evaluate everything, but everything is on a notepad. Everything is written down of the process of what I'm going to do next. And everything is a process of here's the problem. Here's a solution. Even if you write it down, what's the problem. What's the solution. What is the potential problem? How can I resolve this problem before it becomes a problem? What is the potential problem?

I mean, if you want me to give you an example of what happened with COVID and the travel agency, So I went and got my award in New York in February, and things were strange in New York. They were just weird. When I tell you weird, it was like, what's going on?

And you shoes. There's like, no people here. I think New York knew before anybody else does. That makes sense. I think they were talking about it, but no one knew anything yet because it was just bizarre. I felt like I was walking. In a black hole, like everywhere, we went, restaurants weren't going on. There was no mask to wear, but I went to this event and every year this event is like sold out, but there was like half sold out.

I came back to my room. Then I went to DC to another event that was even worse, like what's going on. So after that I went to Chicago, that's when it hit. So from February, when I went to these events to be was the end of February. Now I'm in Chicago, I'm with my son and his 8,000 square foot home is a little sheltered as little bubble.

We put on the TV and they're talking about the Corona virus pandemic, and I'm watching Cuomo and I'm watching this. My son goes, there's a bunch of bullshit that listen, and I have the millennials going to talk to me, right. I'm like, yeah, you believe what you want. I don't care if it's government controlled aliens came down, China gave it to us.

Whatever happened, this is not going away. So you have to have a plan, Jordan, how plan? Because this is going to go down. He's like, what do you mean, mom? I said, just like anything else, this is a war on us in a different way. Listening to my grandmother. We go back again. So what I did was I took my pen and paper and I said, okay, the first thing I have to do is I got to call my creditors, find out what they're doing.

The second thing I have to do is call my, lease my car payments and extend them and put a hold on car payments for three months. Next thing I have to do is call my mortgage, see if I can refinance. And now I have so much equity in my house seat, not take out all the equity to take out half the equity. So at least I can live off of that for a year if I needed to.

Next thing I have to do is call all my clients before they call me, be proactive, tell them that we're going to hold onto everything, move everything for a year and hold onto their payments. May try to get any cancellations where due. I learned that from nine 11. The next thing I have to do is call the IRS.

Cause I have a forever mortgage with them. So I have to call the IRS and tell them they're not getting their 2000 a month that they're going to get $25 a month. That went over very bizarre, which I called him. And I go, I know that I paid 2000 a month, but we're only gonna pay you 25 a month. And he goes, excuse me.

I go, yeah, go to your supervisor is COVID I don't have any money. He just COVID hasn't hit yet. I go, it will. I'm telling you right now. So make your $25. He goes, he came back. He goes, wow. My supervisor said, you'll give you $25 for two years. I go, okay. Sounds good. So we got that taken care of. I called all my cars, three cars that we have for all three companies.

Every one of them gave me three months that I didn't have to pay for it. Well, that's 1500, 1600 a month times three. Save that money. First thing I did the minute that SBA opened the mid, that opened midnight, have my alarm. First thing I did was filed for the SBA loan, got approved, got way more than I even thought that I would got the PPP down the same way and then follow it up with those.

I also got a twenty-five thousand dollars grant. Got the house refinanced. Guess what? They're not doing it now. They're not giving any loans out anymore. You can't even get a loan if you want it. Or if I now got the house refinanced, put my husband on it, he wasn't on it before and said to him, I'm slapping 30 years.

I know that only had 10 years on the house. I don't give a crap about the house. Here's 30 years. You can pay it off. Whatever happens, lived in it all my life. I really don't care. Got the money out of it. It's yours when I'm gone. I really don't care. So I got that all taken care of, talk to all my suppliers, try to figure out what we were going to do, how things were going.

And then the last thing that this is all, while I'm in Chicago. In one day, I got all the stuff from winning tonight because I was making my list the most important things to halt on all my credit cards. You're not charging any more. Tammy, first thing I did, then the second thing is that I opened up new accounts.

I had savings account and escrow account to put all my customers money in an escrow account. Make sure that's not touched. Did all that and make sure all that's taken care of. I did that when I got back. But the next thing that I did was I said to my son, I have to leave tomorrow. He's like why? I said, because they're going to shut the airport.

No, they're not. They're not. I said, the next thing they're going to do is shut down, Chicago. No, they're not. I'm like, okay. You're just remember. Remember my words. I leave the next day. Ghost town in Chicago airport. Following day, they shut down the airports. What happened a week later, everything was shut down.

So that is being proactive and knowing what to do, I guarantee you, 90% of America is going to know what to do. Next time. Something happens. And if you don't live through it, you're not going to go through it. Somebody could be telling you over and over again. I think my grandmother told me enough everyday how poor they were and they had, they didn't have any food that I listened to it so much that the first thing that came we're going to get any food.

And then you go to the grocery store, right? Any toilet paper? I, this is a little bizarre, craziest part of the whole that story. I did. One more thing that others thought about too late and couldn't do it was too late. I said, people aren't going to have jobs. I need to figure out travel's going to be halted.

I travel consulting is going to be halted and that's all I had at the time. I have the food truck, but no one is going to do events. Right. So that was halted. I said, I need to find a job. That's idiot proof that I could do that will always be needed, that I can get it now, before everybody else bombards it.

So I signed up for Instacart. And I got in with Instacart and they don't hire anymore. And I got in with them. So I'm in grandfather now. So if I want to do is to card today for a little bit, I could do it. And since everyone was quarantine, the first month I worked Instacart was in April for the whole month of April.

I made $6,000 doing Instacart. I was exhausted. Like I couldn't move. I started like so early in the morning until seven days a week. And then my husband started doing it by now. They don't even let you let anyone in anymore, but, but I'm grandfathered in God forbid that happens. So there's another, you know, fate, you're gonna lose your job. You're gonna lose your income. Think of it another way. Never went on unemployment. Never did it.

Passionistas: How did all of this lead to Heavenly Puffs?

Tammy: When we first started Puffs about a year and a half ago, I was invited to do a New Year's Eve party at someone's restaurant with the food truck, because that's all we had was the food truck. And we wanted to do something as a side business. Warren Buffett said that if you don't have 51 different streams of income, you're going to go bankrupt. I was like, Oh, my God. I only have two more now. So I said, let's do a food truck. My mother goes, let's get in real estate. I can always get you a food truck because what do you wanna do a food truck for?

I said, because this way we can meet people on the weekends and maybe I can get some more travel business, like register to win a free trip or something like that. So let's just work on the weekends for festivals and we'll be fine. It'll give us something to do. Like we have nothing else to do, right. So we go ahead and we started doing festivals and we were booked every weekend.

Every weekend, we're making 3000, $4,000 every weekend that New Year's Eve, we were at this guy's restaurant and people were coming up ordering these puffs, which are so delicious and greet their local mothers to one of the oldest desserts in the world. It was created seven 66 BC from a Sicilian. They gave it to the Greeks for the first Olympics and only given to the winners.

That's it. No one else could have them. So it's really crunchy on the outside and a really light and airy on the inside. So it's almost like a vignette. It's almost like a doughnut funnel cake. It's so amazing. We drizzle honey and cinnamon a little bit though. So we were doing it and we did that event, but now people are drunk.

This is what they're doing. $20 round here. I'll have an order of pops. There were only $5, but I get $20 because they're drunk and it's new. Year's, everyone's happy. $50, $20 when gave me a hundred dollars for two orders. I'm like, can you guys do this? Like every night at this place? At the end of the night, the owner of the place was a little tipsy and he goes to me, Hey, it's four in the morning.

I want to get home. He's still partying. The place looks coyote ugly. It's like champagne everywhere, food everywhere, napkins everywhere, the old Greek guy, he says, I'm going to give you an idea. If you can make these frozen. You just tell them to a food service and to supermarkets. And we would buy them because we don't make them.

Cause it takes three hours to make. And then some people don't order them. Then we have to throw them out. I go, you would tell me that no one has these frozen. And he's like, no, for real, he's like, yeah, I go, okay, year and a half later we have COVID what did I tell you about throwing away people where people say.

Listen, the problem with this world is no one listens. Listen to it. Half the time this media, this whole thing with bias is going to do this. Trump's going to do that, blah, blah, blah, is people don't listen to the entire conversation. They take one excerpt and that's the way things are going to go. Listen, Google learn.

So it may, I'm sitting hold. We can't do Instacart because now they're, I mean, we are, but not really. Cause people are saying, just drop it off at the door. We're not even making the tips anymore because people are going broke. So I decided to go ahead and. Just say home and figure out what I'm going to do.

Okay. I'm making my list of things that I could do. So you're looking for this work, that work. I said, no, I can't work for someone. It's not going to happen. I go home. Maybe I should try making these little pops frozen. Like he said, it's not a bad idea. I've time right now. Nothing else to do. So I would start with the truck, go in there every day.

I was making five to 700 of them and throwing them out. They were not coming out. Right. I go, no wonder no one in bed did this. Cause it's stupid. They're coming out like silver dollar pancakes. I would take them. I would cook though. Halfway put them in the freezer, excited to get up in the morning to look and see.

And my little round ball was like, It was like flat out, like, no, he can't look like that. So I practice and did it over and over. My husband was helping me like the first week. And after that, he's like, why do they know what's invented it? You know how my mother's whatever. So I was stuck there doing it myself.

I was determined to get it done. And then the chemistry came from school. Uh, everything is temperature, temperature. Let me start using temperature control and temperature. That's the temperature of that. And the yeast I started researching and reading, I could write a book about yeast right now. I read everything there was about use.

I got rid of the instant yeast that I was using. I got rid of the other yeast that I was using, and I started making my own yeast and using the real old fashioned like grandma used to make use of. What a difference. Anyway, so I did that. They made it opened up the freezer. It was still around ball. I'm like, Hey, so I started frying up my oil.

I said, I'm going to defrost them. Cause I don't want to put them in there frozen. And now I'm going to see what happens when I cook them. I put them in the fryer. I tried it. I go with that. It's tastes like I just made it like from scratch on believable. Let's see what happens when I leave it in there for two weeks.

So now we're looking at the end of May, about their beginning of June. Sure enough, they were perfect. I take them June first take my little bag of frozen bag. Go to the guy who said you should embedded them. I said, I want you to try these. I went to the chefs that do not tell them what they are cooked in them back, watered in the front.

He says, Tammy brought these over. Oh yeah. She makes them amazing. Well, thank you. I said try them because I've had them before I go try them now. So he tries no disease. You're super good. Just like you make her the best. And I go, huh? They've been frozen for two weeks. He goes no way. And I go, yeah, he goes, you need to get a package.

This, you do that. I know nothing about food service. I was thrown to the wolves, but I had time and I had COVID on my side. He was the first restaurant to get it. Then I went to another one and another one and another one before you. No it, and I have, I built a sales team. Then I, then somebody from food service called goes, I've been in the business 40 years.

What you have is amazing. You're the only one in the world with this. I want to help you. He comes and helps me. He's a consultant. He turns 300 an hour helps me for free. Helps me get distribution. Now this week. Just today. They got it. Yeah. Where a supermarket in Canada wanted five pallets. They just got their sample today at a clear customs and at 500 supermarkets.

This is only since June that it got created, but we didn't get it. We were testing it out here or there. And then I got my manufacturing license in September and then got asked to be in the Superbowl experience because I can't make these in the food truck anymore. So I partnered. With a catering company.

Cause I knew that they're deader than dead and I can't use the space in a restaurant. It's not enough room for me. So I partnered with Delectables, find catering, what do I do again? Another strategic partnership, pay them very little rent. Every time I had an interview, make sure that I included them, but she had a way to get into the Super Bowl because she did it every time it was in Tampa.

So she got me into the Super Bowl. And we were in front of 35,000 people a day. Like I was blown away. I was there going, is this for real? Like, it keeps on pinching myself. Like I just created this just a couple months ago. And here I am at the Super Bowl experience. And today I have a letter of, this is my first announcement.

You guys want the first news ready? We just got invited to do the Grand Prix today. We, I just can't believe we will be honored if you were participating in partaking with your heavenly puffs of the Grand Prix. So we went from starting it from zero money, nothing to, I don't even know where we are right now, to be honest with you.

All I know is that we just keep growing every day. I mean, I have like six employees now, and now we're looking for a bigger space. We already outgrew that and now they want us to stay there and they're trying to work away that we could still stay there and build a bigger place within the place. We're trying to figure all this out now. Like we need to figure out something.

Passionistas: So what's your definition of success?

Tammy: So funny, cause I have something on my wall and I live by it and it doesn't matter how much money you have, what you have. There's [00:38:00] one thing, integrity. It's something that my grandmother instilled in me. Definitely integrity, no matter what you do or how poor you are, no matter how rich you are, you always have to have that integrity of how you treat others, how you're treated and how you live your life.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Tammy Levent. To learn more about her delicious Greek dessert visit HeavenlyPuffs.com. Please visit ThePassionistasProject.com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. Sign up for our mailing list to get 10% off your first purchase, and be sure to subscribe to The Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests. Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.

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