In this episode of the The CPT Podcast, hosts Zachary Wagner and Joel Lawrence interview Matt Erickson about his path to pastoral ministry and the ideas behind his book The Pastor as Gardener. Erickson shares his conversion in high school, his formation at Wheaton College and Northern Theological Seminary, and how crises in ministry—including COVID-19 and church tensions—pushed him to rethink common leadership models. Drawing on Eugene Peterson and biblical imagery such as 1 Corinthians 3, he argues that pastors should see themselves as “gardeners” who cultivate conditions for growth while trusting God to produce the fruit, emphasizing spiritual formation, shared ministry, and long-term hope.