The Persuaders Podcast

Is the traditional perception of Public Affairs outdated?

Modern organizations demand more of Public Affairs Professionals than a good network among current politicians, and we are seeing a transition in expectations from a firefighter function to a business enabler. But the lack of common ground both in our profession, but also in the interaction with other professions, causes a lot of frustrations and problems for Public Affairs Professionals.

If we can't even as a profession agree on a definition, how can we then expect other professions to understand what we do and don't do – and how we create value for organizations?

The guest on this episode is the "lobby-professor", Arco Timmermans, Public Affairs researcher, writer, and speaker.

Together we look under the hood of Public Affairs, and among other things talk about:

• How Arco approaches the field of Public Affairs in his research
• Differences between PA and PR
• Cultural shifts and the meaning of polarization in the public and political debate
• Why businesses cannot stay in reactive mode – and they will lose to the proactive
• Medias negativity bias towards lobbying
• Why there aren't that many national Public Affairs associations
• Comparing PA with diplomacy, discretion is key
• Does the DNA of PA make it impossible to create more transparency and thereby openness to what do and can do?
• How do we speak the language of the organization? Should we even learn it?
• The lack of resources spend on Public Affairs education and training

From Plato over Machiavelli and into the future, we discuss the state of Public Affairs today.

Hope you will enjoy the episode as much as we did.

Check out www.anderskopp.com for more resources about Public Affairs.

Host: Anders Kopp

Producer: Sidsel Kaae Nørgaard

Links to articles or research mentioned in the episode:

Arcos article "Bringing science to practice: Designing an integrated academic education program for public affairs": https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/en/research/research-output/governance-and-global-affairs/bringing-science-to-practice-designing-an-integrated-academic-education-program-for-public-affairs

The Public Affairs Manager Survey 2026, by Anders Kopp: https://anderskopp.com/the-public-affairs-manager-survey/

"Public Affairs - from a firefighter to a business enabler?" - this is the topic in this episode of the Persuaders Podcast - the only podcast only about Public Affairs...

In this episode we cover one of the biggest challenges in the Public Affairs departments across Europe right now: How Public Affairs can earn legitimacy. To explore this topic, I have invited Jacob Lund Nielsen in to the studio. Jacob Lund Nielsen has a long and impressive career in Brussels especially known for founding Cabinet DN, his time at Teneo as well as Rud Pedersen - Jacob is a founder, CEO and advisor. In the podcast we discuss: - Why Public Affairs is stuck in some organisations - and what are the signs? - Being typecast - born out crisis - why does this become a problem? - The lack of business skills in Public Affairs - How has Public Affairs evolved as a function (and discipline) in organizations? Including the relationship to Comms - What has changed in society and internally in organizations that call for changes in Public Affairs? - How can Public Affairs become a business enabler? What happens if it doesn't? - KPIs and measuring - a necessary evil to earn legitimacy?

Hope you will enjoy the episode as much as we did.

Check out www.anderskopp.com for more resources about Public Affairs.

Host: Anders Kopp

Producer: Sidsel Kaae Nørgaard

The Public Affairs Manager Survey is a new yearly survey, which includes new data, insights and perspectives on the state of Public Affairs in Europe.

93 Public Affairs professionals from 27 countries in the EU has been interviewed for the survey by Anders Kopp.

So in this episode co-host Sosun Sendi, Public Affairs Director at Ulobby, interviews Anders about the findings of the Public Affairs Manager Survey 2025, including:

* Where is the Public Affairs function typically based?

* How is the relationship between Communication & Public Affairs?

* The biggest organisational challenges for Public Affairs Professionals currently?

* What is the typical size of the Public Affairs function?

* Budgets for Public Affairs the last 12 months - increased or decreased?

* Are the Public Affairs Professionals typically measured by qualitative or quantitative KPIs?

* Social media - how do Public Affairs Professionals include this in their activities?

* Top 3 skills needed to succeed in Public Affairs in the future?

The Public Affairs Manager Survey is available for free via www.anderskopp.com from the 18th of November.

The episode was produced by Sidsel K. Nørgaard.

Find all episodes of the Persuaders podcast as well as other resources about Public Affairs on www.anderskopp.com

The Persuaders podcast - the only podcast only about Public Affairs

New episode of the Persuaders Podcast is out! The only podcast only about Public Affairs...

This time we dive into one of the hottest and most hyped trends in our field: AI and lobbyism.

My guest is Peter Aagaard, Associate Professor at the Department of Social Sciences and Business at Roskilde University in Denmark.

Peter has recently published an essay called "Digital lobbying 2.0," about AI and lobbyism, as a part of the Danish Democracy and Power Study.

In the episode we cover:

• Is AI "the weapon of the minority"? Or have we heard this before?
• The AI-hype and similarities with the SoMe-era
• What will AI mean for the politicians on the receiving end of these AI-tools/functions?
• Which skills will be needed to succeed in Public Affairs in the future if AI changes the playing field?
• My (contrarian) take on AI - or digital innovation - and Public Affairs

Check out www.anderskopp.com for more resources about Public Affairs.

Host: Anders Kopp

Producer: Sidsel Kaae Nørgaard .

Shownotes:

• Peter Aagaards research:

https://forskning.ruc.dk/en/persons/peteraa

• Peter Aagaards essay in the Danish Democracy and Power Study (in Danish only):

https://ps.au.dk/fileadmin/Statskundskab/Billeder/Forskning/Forskningsprojekter/Magtudredning/Essays/Essay_af_Peter_Aagaard.pdf

• Other research mentioned:

Alberto Bitonti - "Tools of digital innovation in public affairs management: A practice-oriented analysis" https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/pa.2888

This time we talk about some of the biggest and hardest challenges in Public Affairs today: Delivering value and building a Public Affairs function from scratch!

To help me cover these enourmous challenges in Public Affairs, I am joined by Stefan Pinter, Head of Public Policy EMEA at Suzano - the largest pulp manufacturer in the world as well as one of the largest paper producers in Latin America.

Stefan has first hand experience on this topic as well as impressive merits from working with Public Affairs in difficult industries filled with challenges, like pharma, tobacco and energy. So I talk to Stefan about:

Delivering value:

- how do you provide value in Public Affairs?

- why is it often a challenge for Public Affairs pros to prove themselves?

- how do you contribute to create value when you are basically a cost-center?

- are there differences between industries - do some industries "get" Public Affairs more than others?

Building a Public Affairs function: - how do you approach this and balance building a function while also delivering value short/mid/long-term? - what should Public Affairs pros be aware of before they just jump in to it and start executing? - how do you interact with other units/departments in your organization during the way? - how do you work on Public Affairs issues cross borders and handle any cultural/geographical differences?

Tune in and get the answers in just 40 minutes.

This episode is sponsored by Ulobby, software for Public Affairs.

Host: Anders Kopp

Producer: Sidsel K. Nørgaard

New episode of the Persuaders Podcast! Episode 2 of season 4. In this episode we talk to Thea Utoft, who is a Senior Managing Director at FTI Consulting in Brussels. She leads Financial Services Public Affairs across EMEA for FTI Consulting. In 2023 Thea was recognized as one of the 40 top influencers in Brussels by Politico. So how do you become a "super lobbyist"? What skills or mindset do you need? In the first half of this episode we get Theas views on these questions, and we learn more about her way to becoming one of the most influential people in Brussels. In the second half, we talk about the political year ahead of us in 2024 with many political transitions with EU elections, new presidency, US elections etc. E.g. Thea estimates that up to 60% of the MEPs will be new after the elections. So what will happen in Brussels in the coming quarters? And how can or should you prepare as a Public Affairs professional? Find out by tuning in to this episode of the Persuaders Podcast with Anders Kopp. This episode was produced by Sidsel K. Nørgaard.

The Persuaders Podcast is back with season 4 - with more insights from the world of Public Affairs! We have entered a new year and traditionally we kick off the year with an episode about trends in Public Affairs. This year is no exception! So in this first episode of 2024, Sosun Sendi, Public Affairs Director at Ulobby, takes on the role as a guest host of the podcast, as she quizzes the normal host, Anders Kopp, about the trends in Public Affairs for 2024. In the conversation, Anders points to three trends in Public Affairs in 2024: #1 - Recession - or the fear of recession - may hit the Public Affairs functions harder than they think #2 - Public Affairs will need to move out of the firefighter or garbageman position to compete - a new management approach is needed #3 - A year with more insecurity from geo-politics & EU elections - both an opportunity and threat to the Public Affairs functions Tune in and get more context and reasoning behind these three trends - as well as Anders' best advice for PA pros this year.

All this in just 30 minutes!

And remember to check out www.thepublicaffairsengine.com for more insights from the world of Public Affairs.

Enjoy!

Episode 3, season 3 of the Persuaders Podcast - with Maria Teresa Scardigli, Managing Director, Kellen Europe. Maria has more than 20 years of experience in European Public Affairs, advocacy, and management of trade associations. From Brussels she heads Kellen on a European level and manages a team of about 40 professionals serving +30 trade associations. In the episode I talk to Maria about a new trend influencing the world of Public Affairs: More companies join forces and establish their own interest or trade association. This development can be seen as a reaction to the increasing complexity in the policy arena and the need for more professionalization to continually catch and retain the attention of policy makers. A trend we have also covered from a more academic POV in previous episodes e.g. recently with Wiebke Junk in episode 2 of season 3. In this episode with Maria Teresa Scardigli we cover: - Which factors have changed for the roughly 600 trade associations in Brussels - Why policy makers have much higher expectations than previously - Marias views on why many new trade or interest associations are born - If some trade organizations have become too big to represent all their members - How Public Affairs teams have changed - and how this is then reflected on the expectations on the trade/interest associations All this in just 30 minutes! And remember to check out www.thepublicaffairsengine.com for more insights from the world of Public Affairs. Enjoy!

Episode 2, season 3 of the Persuaders Podcast - with Assistant Professor Wiebke Junk.

This time we talk to Wiebke Junk, who is an Assistant Professor at the University of Copenhagen. The starting point for our conversation in this episode is Wiebke's paper from 2022 "Is There a First Mover Advantage in Lobbying? A Comparative Analysis of How the Timing of Mobilization Affects the Influence of Interest Groups in 10 Polities", co-authored with Michele Crepaz and Marcel Harnegraaff. Among other things we cover: - The effect of timing in lobbying - Who can benefit from early lobbying - What are the mechanisms behind timing - The supply & demand side for moving early - Why jumping to the front of the line and shouting is not always the right thing to do - If small lobby organisations can just copy the big ones - And finally we discuss if it's only ressources that matter in the end 30 minutes filled with insights about Public Affairs. And remember to check out www.thepublicaffairsengine.com for more insights from the world of Public Affairs. The episode was produced by Rikke Bergquist.

Notes:

The paper "Is There a First Mover Advantage in Lobbying?" can be found here:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00104140221109441

The Persuaders podcast is back with season 3! We kick off this third season with a special episode about trends in Public Affairs in 2023.

At the beginning of each year Anders Kopp Jensen shares his thoughts about trends in Public Affairs, exclusively on the podcast. Again this year, Ulobby Public Affairs Director, Sosun Sendi, takes on the role as guest host for this special episode and interviews Anders about what will happen in Public Affairs in 2023.

In the episode Anders answers:

• Why he thinks PA pros are often underperforming, and what they can do to get out of the "fire-distinguisher" role
• What PA pros should focus more on in a rough macro / recession environment
• Why the organizational setup matters - and the position of the PA function internally is more important than ever
• Why PA pros fear KPI's - and why this is a mistake
• Why it is more important than ever to have a Public Affairs strategy and why many often fail to create it
• Why many organizations (without a Public Affairs strategy) should implement a Public Affairs Code of Conduct

All this in just 30 minutes. Remember to subscribe to the Persuaders Podcast so you don't miss the coming episodes of season three!

This episode is sponsored by Ulobby, the leading SaaS-platform for Public Affairs professionals in the Nordics.

The episode was produced by Rikke Bergquist.