How often do the best leaders lead by example, not title?

This week Shawn is joined by podcast host and the CEO of Calm, David Ko, to unpack the power and discipline behind the Shawnism: “Rarely Pull the CEO Card.”

The two discuss why great leaders resist the urge to “because I said so,” and instead, win people over through clarity, vulnerability, and conviction. They also share their thoughts on what it means to lead with persuasion instead of authority, how real influence comes from helping your team understand the why, and how sometimes the best thing a CEO can do is step back and let merit take the lead.

This episode is thoughtful, refreshing, and may help you resist that urge to take control of things better left for others.

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