My guest today is Shadi Hamid. Shadi is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic. He was named one of the world's top 50 thinkers in 2019 by Prospect Magazine. Shadi is also the author of three books, Temptations of Power, Islamic Exceptionalism, and The Problem of Democracy, which will be the primary subject of this conversation.

Shadi and I talk about the difference between liberal democracy and democracy, full stop. We discuss Shadi's concept of democratic minimalism, which is the idea that we should promote democracy in the Middle East even when it leads to illiberal outcomes. We discuss the state of public opinion in Arab countries. We talk about the difference between Islamist and secular parties. We talk about the Israel-Palestine conflict and how it might be affected by the prospect of more democracy in the Middle East. We discuss the lessons learned from the Arab Spring. We talk about the new popularity of isolationist foreign policy in America. We also go on to talk about the so-called "Benign Dictatorships" and much more.

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