In this episode Roman and Jonathan spend a mesmerising hour with Frans Cronje, the CEO of prominent think tank, the Institute of Race Relations. The discussion centres around the battle of ideas between the left and the right, and how public policy is a reflection of public opinion. Frans touches on the failings of BEE, the non-existent race war, the poorly thought out policies of transformation, and the realities around land reform. He sets out four possible scenarios for the future of South Africa all of which makes for fascinating listening.