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Every day, the underground infrastructure that powers modern life — gas, electricity, water, fibre — is struck by excavation equipment hundreds of thousands of times across North America, and for the first time ever, someone has written the book on why.

Scott Landes, a damage prevention leader with more than 40 years in the field, and Benjamin Dierker, Executive Director of the Alliance for Innovation and Infrastructure (Aii), join host Mike Sullivan to discuss their newly released book,
Holding Back Disaster: Protecting Lives and Infrastructure Through Excavation Damage Prevention, published by Routledge on August 11, National 811 Day. 

Built from interviews with roughly 45 industry insiders across the world, the book gives anyone from a new locator to a curious policymaker a human-centred account of a life-or-death industry most people have never heard of. 

The conversation covers the messy, iterative process of writing a first-of-its-kind book, why damage numbers are at record highs even as the industry targets a 50-percent reduction, and what it will take in technology, culture, and new talent… to finally move the needle.

Listen for:

5:08 Why is this the first comprehensive book ever written about damage prevention?

19:13 What would the most experienced people in this industry say to their younger selves?

22:17 Why are damage costs at a record $83 billion even as the industry targets a 50% reduction?

23:39 Is technology already capable of eliminating the need for a notification centre?

27:22 What will it actually take to bring new people into damage prevention — and why does it matter?

 Connect with Guests: Scott Landes, CEO, Excavation Safety Alliance, LLCMinneapolis
LinkedIn | Website

Connect with Guests: Benjamin Dierker, Executive Director and Author

LinkedIn | Website | Email | Book Link 1 | Book Link 2 

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Every day, workers sit through safety orientations and walk away understanding far less than anyone in the room assumes…and nobody checks. 

Mike Sullivan sits down with Dr. Estacio Pereira, Associate Professor of Civil Engineering at the University of Calgary and founder of the ENSURE initiative, who turned his own experience of silently struggling through Canadian safety meetings into a research mission. Pereira introduces Bridge, a gamified mobile assessment platform that uses real photographs of a worker's actual job site to test hazard recognition in real time — giving trainers measurable data on exactly where their crew's knowledge breaks down, on the ground they're actually working on. The conversation cuts to the core of a systemic problem: passing a safety certification and actually understanding the hazard in front of you are not the same thing, and the industry has been confusing the two for decades.

Listen for:

9:45 How does a gamified safety tool actually know what workers don't know?

14:25 Why do workers stay silent in safety meetings even when they're completely lost?

18:00 What happens when your entire workforce has generic training but site-specific hazards?

32:57 What are SafeTalk and SimLift, and why do they matter beyond the classroom?

37:27 If a worker passes with 70%, how do you know the 30% they missed isn't the critical part?

Connect with Guests:Estacio Siemann Santos Pereira, P. Eng, Educator, and Researcher in Project Management

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Three people were killed in Dallas on May 28, 2026. An 811 locate ticket had been filed. Some lines were marked. The gas line that mattered was not.

That's the gap this industry has to confront.

Mike Sullivan sits down with Brigham McCown, Naval aviator, federal pipeline regulator, pipeline CEO, and founder of the Alliance for Innovation and Infrastructure (Aii), to trace the original eight-step vision behind 811, a vision that stalled at step three. 

McCown argues the industry must move from a notification culture to a knowledge culture, and ultimately toward predictive safety, and that overly prescriptive legislation may be one of the things slowing that shift. 

The conversation also covers the data security tensions around utility mapping, why online locate requests produce dramatically fewer damages than phone-based ones, and how Alberta's Alternate Locate Provider program achieved what a rigid legislative framework likely would have prevented.

Listen for:

5:21 Why did Naval Aviation pioneer the safety culture that every high-risk industry now tries to copy?

13:18 What was the original eight-step vision for 811 — and why did progress stall at step three?

17:01 Could the legislation meant to protect damage prevention actually be slowing it down?

31:45 Does calling 811 by phone produce more damages than submitting a locate request online?

34:12 What does it mean to move from a "call before you dig" culture to a "know before you dig" culture?

 Connect with Guest:Brigham McCown, Chairman and CEO | Alliance for Innovation and Infrastructure

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Every step of the damage prevention process was followed…and a five-year-old boy still died. 

Mike Sullivan sits down with Ron Peterson, Executive Director of the National Utility Locating Contractors Association (NULCA) and a 30-plus-year veteran of the locating industry, to discuss the position paper that sent shockwaves through the damage prevention world: "This System Is Designed to Fail." 

Peterson explains why a one-call system built 50 years ago for a million locate requests can't survive 250 million notifications, ticket abuse with zero consequences, and utility maps that show lines on the wrong side of the road…or not at all. 

What sets this conversation apart is Peterson's refusal to point fingers outward first: locating contractors, he argues, must own their failures in staffing, retention, and race-to-the-bottom contract bidding. 

Mike and Ron also explore Alberta's Alternate Locate Provider program as living proof that unlocking locator capacity dramatically reduces damages, and float a bold "Uber for locators" concept that could reshape how excavators secure qualified help.

Listen for:

1:10  How does a stranger spray-painting your backyard turn into a 35-year career?

3:57  What happens when a system built for one million locate requests faces 250 million?

9:15  Why did a fatal gas explosion 500 feet from Ron's childhood home force this reckoning?

15:02  Why do trained locators keep walking out the door and is money really the reason?

32:28  Could ordering a qualified locator like an Uber actually fix the capacity crisis?

Connect with Guests:Ron Peterson, Executive Director at NULCA-The Voice of Professional Locators

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What if the people who keep gas lines, fibre, and power cables from being torn out of the ground have never had a profession to call their own? 

Mike Sullivan talks with Coral Lukaniuk; Longtime architect of large‑scale strategic programs, engineer and facilitator with deep engagement experience, founder of coRoc Solutions, and Executive Director of the new Damage Prevention Professional (DPP) Certification Program.

They unpack a strange truth: damage prevention is named in federal and provincial regulation, yet nearly everyone in it "fell into" the work, with no curriculum, credential, or career pathway behind them. 

Coral explains why a nonprofit like Utility Safety Partners is the right home for the program, why it's emphatically not "just an Alberta thing," and why building a profession is a decades-long project worth starting now. 

The conversation lands on a simple test of success: a day when DPP certification is a job requirement, and a damage-prevention pro is recognized as readily as an electrician at your door.

Listen for:

2:59 Why has no one ever built a career path for the people protecting what's buried beneath us?

7:25 Why does it matter that a nonprofit — not a company — is behind this certification?

13:58 Why would a board chase a goal that comes with no guarantee of success?

26:12 Why do so many people wrongly dismiss this as "just an Alberta thing"?

30:53 What does success actually look like for a profession that has never existed?

 Connect with Guests:Coral Lukaniuk,Executive Director | coRoc Solutions

LinkedIn | Damage Prevention Professional Certification

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What if the next threat to buried infrastructure isn't an excavator's bucket….it's an algorithm that already knows where every line is buried? 

Mike sits down with AI strategist, futurist, and bestselling author Peter Swain, who has led more than 1,400 technology projects with companies like Apple, Microsoft, and Google, to confront a question the damage prevention industry can no longer avoid: could big tech effectively map North America's buried infrastructure without ever touching the industry's proprietary records? 

Swain's answer: yes... through correlated data alone, sets up a wide-ranging, unflinching conversation about AI models already measuring in the genius IQ range, predictions of an end to all disease within a decade, and why regulated industries will be dragged forward by rising expectations whether they're ready or not. 

Along the way, the two dig into the failure of regulation, our own culpability in giving data away for convenience, and evidence that human critical thinking is measurably declining just as we need it most. 

It ends with Mike answering a question few industry leaders would touch: what happens if AI makes his own job unnecessary?

 Listen for:

9:17 How long can a safety industry afford to move slow?

14:00 What does genius-level AI mean for human judgment on site?

20:04 If AI takes safety jobs, can UBI catch the fall?

25:29 Could big tech sell the buried world back to its owners?

31:01 What happens to dig site safety when critical thinking fades? 

Connect with Guests:Peter Swain, AI Technologist | 5x Best Selling Author | International Keynote speaker

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This is a REPLAY of an episode first published in May 2025.

What if the next big thing in utility safety isn’t underground—but overhead? 

Mike Sullivan sits down with Nathan Coutu from ATCO Electric to spotlight the groundbreaking "Lookup and Live" application, a collaborative initiative aimed at reducing overhead power line contacts. 

Nathan shares how this Alberta-wide, GIS-based mobile and web app helps users visualize and safely navigate around energized overhead lines—especially crucial for agricultural, construction, and utility workers. 

Drawing inspiration from similar successes in Australia and Saskatchewan, he reveals the collaborative journey of Alberta utilities working together for public safety, the staggering contact statistics that prompted action, and the powerful simplicity of a solution that could save lives. 

If you’ve ever thought "I knew the power line was there—I just didn’t see it this time," this episode could be a game-changer.

Listen For:

3:48 The Birth of “Lookup and Live” in Alberta

5:16 From “Where’s the Line” to a Province-Wide Collaboration

7:22 The Overhead Threat You Keep Ignoring

16:51 50% Fewer Incidents: What Australia Taught Us

24:52 The Push for Simplicity and Adoption

27:20 Breaking Through Data Sharing Barriers

Connect with guest Nathan Coutu

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What happens when a pandemic coffee chat accidentally becomes one of the most respected podcasts in the energy industry? 

Mike Sullivan sits down with James Cross, co-creator of Coffee with Jim and James, to unpack the origin story behind the show that connected an entire industry during COVID. 
 
James shares how a simple Zoom conversation evolved into a powerful platform for collaboration, storytelling, and safety advocacy across the natural gas and damage prevention world. 
 
From his roots in West Texas and a passion for public speaking to taking the podcast live on the road and into the field, James reflects on the lessons learned from hundreds of conversations with frontline workers, industry leaders, and safety professionals. The discussion dives deep into safety culture, near miss reporting, industry collaboration, and whether podcasts truly make a difference. 
 
 Emotional, funny, and deeply human, this episode is both a celebration of community and a reminder that the most impactful conversations often start with a cup of coffee.

 
 Listen for:

:40 How Did A Pandemic Coffee Chat Turn Into A Hit Industry Podcast?

7:53 Why Was Convincing The First Podcast Guest So Difficult?

13:39 What Happened When Coffee With Jim And James Went Live At A Conference?

26:40 Are Safety Metrics Measuring The Right Things In The Industry?

47:07 What Dangerous Situation Did PG&E Workers Face In The Field?

Connect with Guests:James Cross, Chief Experience Officer | EWN

LinkedIn| Website | Podcast 

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Every day across North America, workers excavate near buried infrastructure that could kill them and most of the people who built the system protecting them can't explain how the whole thing fits together. 

Mike Sullivan sits down with Scott Landes, a four-decade figure in North American damage prevention who co-founded Rhino Marking & Protection Systems and the Excavation Safety Alliance. 

Scott and Mike explore what the industry has built and what it is still failing to do, the absence of C-suite ownership of damage prevention culture, the near-impossible challenge of changing state-level legislation even when it's broken, and why Scott believes a simple cultural shift at the top of major utility companies could eliminate 99% of damage incidents. 

The conversation closes on a practical challenge: what is the one action every listener could take tomorrow to immediately reduce the risk of a strike?

Listen for:

6:35 What does Jimmy Buffett's brand genius have to do with how damage prevention companies succeed or fail?

17:31 Why did it take 40 years for someone to write the first comprehensive book about the damage prevention industry?

21:32 Who is Holding Back Disaster actually written for — and what does it hope to change?

37:42 If you rewrote this book in ten years, what would you hope the industry had finally solved?

44:24 What is the one action every person in damage prevention could take tomorrow to immediately reduce the risk of a strike?

Connect with Guests:

Scott Landes, CEO, Excavation Safety Alliance, LLC

Minneapolis
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This is a REPLAY of an episode first published in August 2024.

How do you measure what didn’t happen?  

In this episode, Mike sits down with Wayne Jensen to explore the fascinating concept of quantifying the absence of damage in the damage prevention industry.  

They discuss the evolution of safety practices, the challenges of relying too heavily on regulations, and the importance of recognizing proactive behavior in preventing accidents.  

The conversation dives deep into the human side of safety, celebrating the unsung heroes who ensure nothing goes wrong – and the complexities of proving that their efforts were the reason why. 

Listen For:
3:19 - The Origin of Monthly Damage Prevention Meetings
8:09 - The Effectiveness of Public Awareness Programs
20:56 - Are We Too Reliant on Legislation?
28:33 - Responsibility and Accountability in Damage Prevention 

Guest: WAYNE JENSEN
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