The Scott Horton Show from The Libertarian Institute

Scott interviews Ramzy Baroud about the Israeli annexation of Palestine, including Trump's role as perhaps the most acquiescent president in American history in going along with the agenda of the Israeli government. Most recently this has meant acceding to Netanyahu's plans for massive annexation of the West Bank. Although Israel has appeared to back down slightly from its aggressive annexation plan, Baroud is adamant that this is merely a public posture to deflect international criticism, when in reality these Palestinian territories have always been under de facto Israeli control, and will continue to be so. And although Trump has been unusually indulgent with the Israelis, Baroud suspects that a Biden presidency wouldn't be any better. Baroud laments the fact that the Palestinian perspective is never portrayed in the mainstream media, and so almost everyone in the U.S. only ever hears a deceptive, pro-Israel narrative.

Ramzy Baroud is a US-Arab journalist and is the editor-in-chief of the Palestine Chronicle. He is the author of My Father Was A Freedom Fighter: The Untold Story of Gaza and The Last Earth: A Palestinian Story. His new book is These Chains Will Be Broken: Palestinian Stories of Struggle and Defiance in Israeli Prisons. Follow Ramzy on Twitter @RamzyBaroud and read his work at RamzyBaroud.net.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1Ct2FmcGrAGX56RnDtN9HncYghXfvF2GAh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB4AVC4HxiI

Ron Enzweiler exposes some of the falsehoods behind the developing story about supposed Russian bounties on American soldiers in Afghanistan. For one thing, outlets like the New York Times have implied that there is consensus among America's intelligence agencies on this story—in reality, says Enzweiler, the NSA, who monitor nearly all Taliban cell phone traffic, "strongly dissented" from the CIA's initial claims. Even the Department of Defense, which thoroughly investigates every U.S. death in Afghanistan, hasn't found evidence to support the idea that the Russian government is paying bounties to the Taliban. All of the media commotion, of course, is being used as an excuse to keep this war going forever. The timing of the story is certainly suspicious, coming on the heels of President Trump's claim that he'd like to pull all troops from Afghanistan before the election.

Discussed on the show:

"The Russian Bounties Hoax" (Antiwar.com Original)

"Who To Believe on Afghan Intelligence: CIA, NSA, or Pentagon?" (Antiwar.com Original)

"Trump Wants Troops in Afghanistan Home by Election Day. The Pentagon Is Drawing Up Plans." (The New York Times)

Ron Enzweiler is an air force veteran and worked for USAID in Iraq for seven years. He is the author of When Will We Ever Learn. You can follow his writing at Antiwar.com.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1Ct2FmcGrAGX56RnDtN9HncYghXfvF2GAh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkkArmozIRU

Trita Parsi discusses John Bolton's tenure in the Trump administration, during which time he worked tirelessly to sabotage any form of negotiation between the United States and Iran. Bolton is a fierce advocate for America's alliance with Israel, says Parsi, which often means acting in ways that are actually quite harmful to American interests. Netanyahu, Parsi explains, worries that any peace between the U.S. and Iran would threaten Israel's position as the dominant superpower in the Middle East, and it would no longer be so easy for them to accomplish the things the Netanyahu government wants to do, like annexing more and more Palestinian territory. Unless you have the warped neocon worldview, however, Scott and Parsi agree that attempted American hegemony in the Middle East can only mean disaster for the true interests of the American people.

Discussed on the show:

"John Bolton can stomach Kim Jong Un’s North Korea, but not Iran" (Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft)

The Room Where It Happened: A White House Memoir

Trita Parsi is the president of the National Iranian American Council and the author of Losing an Enemy: Obama, Iran and the Triumph of Diplomacy. Parsi is the recipient of the 2010 Grawemeyer Award for Ideas Improving World Order. Follow him on Twitter @tparsi.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1Ct2FmcGrAGX56RnDtN9HncYghXfvF2GAh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZOGCb3qDqE

Scott talks to Tom Woods about his latest free ebook, The Pentagon vs. The Economy. Woods examines the many ways America's military-industrial complex distorts the economy, often applying Frederic Bastiat's principle of "seen vs. unseen" to demonstrate just how many resources are diverted away from the productive economy, toward the project of killing foreigners abroad. Woods has written the book with minimal political slant, so that readers on both the left and the right can find agreement on this vitally important issue.

Discussed on the show:

The Pentagon vs. the Economy

Pentagon Capitalism: The Political Economy of War

NSC-68

Tom Woods is the host of the Tom Woods Show and the author of numerous books including Real Dissent. Follow him on Twitter @ThomasEWoods.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1Ct2FmcGrAGX56RnDtN9HncYghXfvF2GAh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7FKSza0ddI

Scott interviews Matthew Hoh about the recent claim that the Russian government has been paying bounties to Taliban militants to kill U.S. soldiers. The headlines have made it sound as though this is a confirmed and well-sourced story, when in reality, Hoh explains, it’s all coming from anonymous American intelligence sources without so much as an attempt at independent verification of, say, specific soldiers that this is supposed to have happened to. Moreover, says Hoh, Russia has very little to gain from such a policy, and a lot to lose. The people who would benefit from increased tensions with Russia are the war hawks in the U.S. government and the big players in the arms industry. Just like with the hundreds of other lies told by the U.S. government and sold by the media to benefit powerful military-industrial complex interests, we should be highly skeptical.

Discussed on the show:

“Is Big Media Echoing Accusations to Demonize Russia and Continue Afghan War?” (Institute for Public Accuracy)

“Russia Secretly Offered Afghan Militants Bounties to Kill U.S. Troops, Intelligence Says” (The New York Times)

“Spies and Commandos Warned Months Ago of Russian Bounties on U.S. Troops” (The New York Times)

“Russian Spy Unit Paid Taliban to Attack Americans, U.S. Intelligence Says” (The Wall Street Journal)

“Russian operation targeted coalition troops in Afghanistan, intelligence finds” (The Washington Post)

Afghanistan Papers

“This Russia-Afghanistan Story Is Western Propaganda At Its Most Vile” (Caitlin Johnstone)

Matthew Hoh is a senior fellow at the Center for International Policy and formerly worked for the U.S. State Department. Hoh received the Ridenhour Prize Recipient for Truth Telling in 2010. Hoh is a member of the Board of Directors for Council for a Livable World and is an Advisory Board Member for Expose Facts. He writes on issues of war, peace and post-traumatic stress disorder recovery at matthewhoh.com.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1-uPxztDbc

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_29_hoh.mp3

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The following is an automatically generated transcript.

Show Transcript

Scott Horton 0:10

All right, shall welcome and Scott Horton show. I am the director of the libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com dot com, author of the book fool's errand, time to end the war in Afghanistan. And I recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at scotthorton.org dot org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed full archive is also [email protected] slash Scott Horton show. All right, you guys introducing Matthew whoa, I'm sure you remember that back in 2009. He was a State Department official in Afghanistan, who publicly resigned and went to the media and told Barack Obama not to launch this search because it could not work. And of course he was vindicated after being ignored and We have a lot of important Afghanistan stuff to discuss. So welcome back to the show, Matt. How are you, sir? Good, Scott, how are you? I'm doing real good. appreciate you joining us on the show again here. And you know what, I'm happy to share a press release with you this morning. The Institute for Public accuracy is advertising interviews with you or me about the subject we're about to discuss here, but I figured I'd better go ahead and interview you about it ...

Scott talks to Hans Kristensen about the state of the world’s nuclear weapons arsenals. Immediately after the Cold War, says Kristensen, the U.S. and Russia drastically reduced their nuclear stockpiles, making the world significantly safer. Since then, however, this trend toward disarmament has begun to slow and even to reverse. At the same time, more countries have developed their own nuclear weapons programs. Scott thinks this has more to do with the financial incentives of the military-industrial complex than it does with the possibility for real global hostilities—but that doesn’t make the situation any less dangerous.

Discussed on the show:

“SIPRI Yearbook 2020” (SIPRI)

“Nuclear weapon modernization continues but the outlook for arms control is bleak” (SIPRI)

Hans M. Kristensen is an Associate Senior Fellow with the SIPRI Disarmament, Arms Control and Non-proliferation Programme and Director of the Nuclear Information Project at the Federation of American Scientists. Follow him on Twitter @nukestrat.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htvZgC4tD5M

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_26_kristensen.mp3

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The following is an automatically generated transcript.

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Scott Horton 0:00

For Pacifica radio June 28 2020. I'm Scott Horton. This is anti war radio.

All right, y'all welcome it's Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow. All right, you guys introducing Hans Kristensen from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. And he is also at the Federation of American Scientists as well and SIPRI that's sipri.org. have just put out their latest study the sipper yearbook 2020. And part of that, of course, focuses on nuclear weapons, and they have a story here at sipri.org nuclear weapon modernization continues, but the outlook for arms control is bleak. Welcome to show Hans. How are you, sir?

Hans Kristensen 1:25

Thanks for having me.

Scott Horton 1:26

Very happy to have you here. So I'm sorry, I didn't get a chance to read the whole PDF file and everything here. It's been a very busy time. But I did read the introductory article here. And there's so many important points brought up here. But I guess if we could just start with reminding the audience which all countries are armed with nuclear weapons, and approximately how many of them etc, like that, if you could?

Hans Kristensen 1:51

Yeah, so they're about they're now nine countries today that have nuclear weapons. And that's the United States and Russia, France, Britain, China. India, Pakistan, Israel and North Korea. And all together, they possess something in the order of 13,400 nuclear warheads. Most of those are in what you can sort of call military stockpiles that are ready to use on relatively short notice. But there's also a chunk of them some something in the order of 1800 to 2000 that are on high alert, they're ready to fire within just minutes.

Scott Horton 2:28

And then,

Jim Bovard exposes the false claim that Bill Clinton presided over a peaceful administration, pointing out the horrible atrocities of the “humanitarian” intervention in Kosovo. Clinton launched this intervention, says Bovard, as a distraction from his personal scandals, under the dubious guise of saving the ethnic minority Albanians from genocide at the hands of the Serbians. Of course, as with many of America’s wars, this one turned out to be based on lies; ultimately hundreds, if not thousands, of civilians were killed because of U.S. intervention. Scott and Bovard also discuss the U.S. military’s war crimes during the Korean War.

Discussed on the show:

“Kosovo Indictment Proves Bill Clinton’s Serbian War Atrocities” (The Libertarian Institute)

Hillary’s Choice

“The Korean War Atrocities No One Wants to Talk About” (The American Conservative)

Pentagon Papers

Jim Bovard is a columnist for USA Today and the author of Public Policy Hooligan: Rollicking and Wrangling from Helltown to Washington. Find all of his books and read his work on his website and follow him on Twitter @JimBovard.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7nGl3W405Y

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_26_bovard.mp3

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The following is an automatically generated transcript.

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Scott Horton 0:10

All right, Joe. Welcome to the Scott Horton show. I am the director of the libertarian Institute editorial director of anti war.com, author of the book fool's errand, time to end the war in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at scotthorton.org dot org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed full archive is also [email protected]. Slash Scott Horton Show. Hey guys on the line, I've got Jim Beauvoir. He wrote most of the books that are out including public policy hooligan, which I know you'll love, and he's been writing for us at the libertarian Institute. Thank goodness. This one is called Kosovo indictment proves Bill Clinton 10s Serbian war atrocities. That is at libertarian. institute.org Welcome back to the show. How you doing, Jim?

Jim Bovard 1:09

Hey, doing good. Scott, thanks for your kind words. Thanks for your encouragement to write that story. I'm glad

Scott Horton 1:14

you did. But I'm so confused because, geez, I seem to remember the Bill Clinton years being peace time, Jim. No.

Jim Bovard 1:24

Well, that's true. I mean, that's the fairy tale. I mean, it's it's sort of like the fairy tale that there was not any corruption scandals under the during the Obama administration. And the George W. Bush was more honest than he seemed at the time.

Scott Horton 1:39

Oh, yeah. He kept us safe. That said, you know, that one big thing?

Jim Bovard 1:45

Well, if you're in the military, or if you're Iraq or Afghan D or about 25 other nationalities, right? ethnic groups.

Scott Horton 1:56

Right on Okay, so I do remember 1999 Actually, I was just pretending. And so what happened was, is he was impeached but not removed. And then he celebrated by starting the war. Pretty much. Oh, and in fact, I guess we know right from Gail, she's book that Hillary essentially wouldn't talk to him unless he would bomb Serbia.

Scott talks to Antiwar.com News Editor Dave DeCamp about several of his latest articles. The two discuss the status of nuclear arms negotiations between the U.S. and Russia, the conflict between southern separatists and the Hadi government in Yemen, the Trump administration’s plans to allow the Israeli government to annex more of the West Bank, and a new round of sanctions on Syria. You can read all of DeCamp’s great work at news.antiwar.com and original.antiwar.com.

Discussed on the show:

“At Least 54 Killed as South Yemen Ceasefire Collapses in Abyan” (Antiwar.com)

“Annexation could extinguish Palestinian hope. That’s dangerous.” (The Washington Post)

Oslo Accords

“The Imperious Caesar Act Will Crush the Syrian People” (The American Conservative)

The Room Where It Happened: A White House Memoir

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smHsfbARp2U

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_26_decamp.mp3

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The following is an automatically generated transcript.

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Scott Horton 0:10

All right shall welcome Scott Horton show. I am the director of the libertarian Institute editorial director of anti war.com, author of the book fool's errand, time to end the war in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at scotthorton.org dot org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed full archive is also [email protected]. Slash Scott Horton show. Archie guys on the line I've got Dave de Kamp again, he is assistant news editor at anti war calm that's news dot anti war.com. And also at original dynamic Werner comm find his opinion pieces in the right hand margin there. Welcome back. How you doing, Dave?

Dave DeCamp 0:58

I'm good Scott. Thanks for having me back.

Scott Horton 1:00

Very happy to have you here. Important things to talk about starting with the single most important thing in the world. And that's not opinion. It's a scientific fact, presuming the importance of the continued existence of humanity at all to you. Seems like a probably commonly accepted premise. America and Russia are in the midst of nuclear arms talks in Vienna, Austria. Tell me every single thing you know and have to say about it, please, sir.

Dave DeCamp 1:30

Well, okay, so the so US and Russia they met for talks this week, Monday and Tuesday, in Vienna, as the New START treaty. The Strategic Arms reduction treaty is set to expire in February 2021. And that's the last major arms control agreement between the United States and Russia. And that limits the amount of nuclear warheads that they can have deployed and also, importantly, It includes verification regime, which allows up to 18 on site inspections per year meaning the US can go inspect Russia's nukes and the rock and Russia can go inspect the the US and Russia has offered to extend this treaty because it could it could be extended for five years if both sides agree. And the Trump administration has rejected that saying that they want China to be involved. So they keep inviting China to these talks. And now, you got to look at the nuclear arsenals all these countries so the stockpile for Russia in the United States, it's around 6000 for each and that's including old warheads that are set to be like dismantled their stockpiles of active warheads.

Jason Ditz talks about the Turkish attacks on Kurds in northern Iraq, which have taken the form of both land assaults and periodic airstrikes. These incursions began around the time the U.S. invaded Iraq, and have seen little resistance from the Iraqi government. Ditz also discusses the border dispute between India and China, which has long been simmering and recently erupted into hand-to-hand violence that killed several dozen soldiers on both sides. Ditz thinks the killing is over for the time being, but is concerned about the future of the conflict, given both countries’ age-old animosity and their possession of nuclear weapons.

Discussed on the show:

“Turkey Launches Ground Offensive Against Kurds in Northern Iraq” (Antiwar.com)

“6/19/20 Eric Margolis on the World’s Most Dangerous Border Dispute” (The Libertarian Institute)

Jason Ditz is the news editor of Antiwar.com. Read all of his work at news.antiwar.com and follow him on Twitter @jasonditz.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBk-G-A32GI

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_26_ditz.mp3

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The following is an automatically generated transcript.

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Scott Horton 0:10

All right, y'all welcome it's Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow. Okay, guys on the line, I've got Jason ditz. He's the news editor at antiwar.com news.antiwar.com. And he's got a whole series on this extremely important series of events. Man I said series twice in a row like that. That's just terrible. A bunch of stuff happened. Turkey attack the PKK than Iraq. And then so did Iran. Huh. Welcome back to the show, Jason, how you doing?

Jason Ditz 1:04

I'm doing good. Scott. How are you?

Scott Horton 1:06

I'm doing great. So June 17. You wrote this thing. Turkey launches ground offensive against Kurds in northern Iraq. And so who's who and what do they fight about?

Jason Ditz 1:17

Well, this has happened. Honestly, a lot. Turkey's been at war with the PKK, who are Kurdish separatists since the 80s. They consider them terrorists like they consider most Kurdish groups. And a few years ago, there was a very brief ceasefire that was supposed to lead to peace talks in Turkey. And as part of that ceasefire deal, the PKK sent a lot of their forces into northern Iraq like the the really just barely still Iraq, Northern Part of the country of Iraqi Kurdistan officials really didn't seem to mind at the time they thought they were helping out a regional ally. But ever since that a ceasefire collapsed, which was seems like a few weeks after it started, a turkey has been attacking the PKK in northern Iraq for fairly regularly at least once a year. And this time, what's different is they're doing the same, you know, send some ground troops in an attack. But Iran has actually gotten involved, to some extent firing some rockets and artillery at the PKK as well.

Scott Horton 2:57

As Do you know, is there a recent crackdown on PJAK inside Iran or something like that.

Scott talks to Jonathan Hafetz about the troubling case of Adham Amin Hassoun, a man who was convicted in 2008 of providing material support to terrorist organizations. Hassoun was a legal resident of the United States, but is not a citizen, so upon completion of his prison sentence in 2017, the government sought to deport him. But Hassoun, born in Lebanon to refugee parents, doesn’t hold citizenship in any country, and the U.S. couldn’t find a country to send him to. Instead, they invoked an obscure section of the Patriot Act that supposedly allows them to detain Hassoun indefinitely. Hafetz and the ACLU are challenging them on this claim, fighting for the freedom of a man who by all accounts has served his time and now deserves his liberty.

Discussed on the show:

“Government Case Collapses Against Adham Amin Hassoun, First Man Jailed Indefinitely Under Patriot Act” (The Daily Beast)

“Zadvydas v. Davis” (Oyez)

Jonathan Hafetz is a senior staff attorney at the ACLU Center for Democracy. He teaches at Seton Hall Law School and has published many books. Follow him on Twitter @JonathanHafetz.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YttSXnjTRgI

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_26_hafetz.mp3

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The following is an automatically generated transcript.

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Scott Horton 0:10

All right, y'all welcome it's Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow.

All right, so introducing Jonathan. Hey Fitz, senior staff attorney at the ACLU, welcome back to the show. How you doing?

Jonathan Hafetz 0:47

Very well in yourself.

Scott Horton 0:49

I'm doing great. appreciate you joining us here. And you know, I read this incredibly interesting story. I'm not sure if I ever heard about this specific case or not. Hum. mean, how soon and I hate to quote The Daily Beast, but I do somewhat respect Spencer Ackerman, so Okay. It's a Spencer Ackerman article at The Daily Beast. And it says here that you guys have been representing this guy, and that he has been held since when and for what again?

Jonathan Hafetz 1:23

It's a good question. He's been held. Well, he was he was convicted in the 2000s for what's called material support for terrorism. But as the judge in his case found he actually had nothing to do with a group like Al Qaeda and was not directed to us essentially, he was caught up in some kind of broader operation and he was, he was convicted of basically giving money to or supporting charities in places like Chechnya. That We're intended to uh, you know, it's just people there during conflict in Bosnia and Chechnya, nothing directed the United States and he was caught up in the overreaction and the sweeping kind of abuse of authority after 911. And he was anyway but anyway, that he was convicted and he was sentenced to a term imprisonment, the government sought to sentence him to a longer term, much longer term. But the the judge refused, said he was not a threat to national the US national security. And so the case was done.