The Scott Horton Show from The Libertarian Institute

Joe Lauria explains the latest superseding indictment against Julian Assange, who still faces extradition to the U.S. for his supposed violations of the Espionage Act. Lauria’s take is that the new indictment is simply “window dressing,” meant to make Assange look bad by smearing his reputation in the minds of those who follow the case only from afar—the indictment, it turns out, doesn’t even contain any new charges. All along, the name of the game has been trying to make Assange out to be not a publisher of information he received from others, but an actual accomplice in the hacking of those secrets in the first place. Anyone who has been following Assange’s story closely from the beginning knows that this claim is completely untrue; what Assange does is no different than what any other investigative journalist does, except that he’s much better at it. If the American government can successfully extradite and convict Assange on these Espionage Act charges, says Lauria, they must do the same for the editors of the New York Times, the Washington Post, and every other mainstream media outlet in the country.

Discussed on the show:

“ASSANGE EXTRADITION: Assange Hit With New Superseding Indictment, Reflecting Possible FBI Sting Operation” (Consortium News)

“25 YEARS OF CN: ‘Journalists Are All Julian Assange’—Robert Parry, December 16, 2010” (Consortium News)

Collateral Murder

“Military Fails to Link Leaks With Any Deaths” (Courthouse News)

“State Department Cables” (WikiLeaks)

“Iraq War Logs” (WikiLeaks)

“Afghan War Diary” (WikiLeaks)

“In letter to the Lancet, doctors condemn torture of Assange and demand his release” (World Socialist Web Site)

Joe Lauria is the editor-in-chief at Consortium News. He is a former UN correspondent and wrote at the Boston Globe and Wall Street Journal. You can follow him on Twitter @unjoe.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J64wVKtsUs

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_26_lauria.mp3

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Scott Horton 0:10

All right, y'all welcome it's Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow. All right, you guys on the line, I've got the great Joe Lauria. He is the editor of consortium news.com. And he's got such an important piece here. Assange hit with new superseding indictment spit, reflecting possible FBI sting operation Yeah, who would have thought that Welcome back to the show. Joe. How are you sir?

Joe Lauria 0:58

Thank you, Scott. I'm fine. Good to talk. Again,

Scott Horton 1:00

yeah, for those not familiar, the hero, Julian Assange, the founder of Wikileaks, was published such great information over the years already has been indicted. He's in custody in England. And but he's been indicted in the United States over skipping bail on a fake charge. But he's already indicted in the United States on Espionage Act charges. They're saying he's not a publisher like the New York Times,

Mike Swanson discusses the continuing economic fallout from the coronavirus, focusing in particular on what are sometimes called “zombie companies.” These firms stay afloat largely because of easy money available at low interest rates, even though their business may be fundamentally unsound. Crucially, the government response to the coronavirus has continued to enable this behavior by bailing out firms that would otherwise go bankrupt. Swanson argues that in a healthy environment such firms should be allowed to go bankrupt—a vital feature of any market economy—as would huge sectors of American business that have been kept alive by decades of artificially low interest rates. Scott and Swanson worry about the powder keg created by years of unwise policy by the U.S. government, and about the spark that could be provided in the form of the coronavirus shutdowns.

Discussed on the show:

“Here’s one more economic problem the government’s response to the virus has unleashed: Zombie firms” (The Washington Post)

“The Age of Magic Money” (Foreign Affairs)

Big Debt Crises

David Stockman’s Contra Corner

Mike Swanson provides investment advice at wallstreetwindow.com and is the author of The War State: The Cold War Origins Of The Military-Industrial Complex And The Power Elite. He also works with the Neopolis Media Group, a group of historians, educators, authors, researchers, and free speech advocates who endeavor to provide original and engaging content, including The Ochelli Effect, and The Lone Gunman Podcast.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjEjf0e5IF4

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_26_swanson.mp3

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Scott Horton 0:10

All right, y'all welcome it's Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow. Alright guys on the line I've got the great Mike Swanson while he wrote the war state, all about the Truman Eisenhower and Kennedy years there and the rise of the military industrial complex after World War Two. Have you read that man? It's great. Oh yeah. Also, he's a former hedge fund manager. Very successful guy on Wall Street and now he gives investment advice at Wall Street window calm. Yes, of course is a sponsor of this show, and has great stuff to say about money issues all the time. Welcome back. How are you doing, Mike?

Mike Swanson 1:14

Oh, I'm doing great. Scott, how are you?

Scott Horton 1:16

I'm doing okay. I'm a little bit worried about the future of the country, to be perfectly honest with you. I think when the washington post is talking, like Mark Thornton, that I should be really worried. And they did. I sent you this piece. I'm sure you probably saw it anyway. The Washington Post says, here's one more economic problem. The government's response to the virus has unleashed zombie firms. troubling rise in number of US companies that can't make enough profit to cover debt payments. So obviously the thesis of the story here is the lockdown,

Scott interviews journalist Vincent Bevins about his latest book, The Jakarta Method, in which he lays out some of the history of the U.S. government’s support for violent right-wing coups all over the world. During the Cold War, America backed brutal extremists in Indonesia, Brazil, Chile, Iraq, and elsewhere, who were responsible all told for the deaths of millions of civilians—all in the name of defeating the threat of communism and socialism. Unlike the well-known and well-publicized crimes of left-wing dictators like Pol Pot in Cambodia, almost nobody in the United States today knows much about their government’s role in the coups in places like Indonesia and Brazil. These episodes pose a serious challenge to America’s view of itself as a force for good—in reality, many people the world over have good reason to resent American hegemony.

Discussed on the show:

The Jakarta Method: Washington’s Anticommunist Crusade and the Mass Murder Program that Shaped Our World

“How ‘Jakarta’ Became the Codeword for US-backed Mass Killing” (The New York Review of Books)

Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media

The Bandung Conference concludes

“The Trials of Henry Kissinger (2002)” (IMDb)

1964 Brazilian coup d’état

1973 Chilean coup d’état

Operation Condor

The Darker Nations: A People’s History of the Third World

Devil’s Game

Native Son

“Thy Will Be Done: The Conquest of the Amazon” (Abe Books)

Trilateralism: The Trilateral Commission and Elite Planning for World Management

Vincent Bevins is an award-winning journalist and correspondent whose work has appeared in the New York Times, The Atlantic, The Economist, the Guardian, and many others. He is the author of The Jakarta Method: Washington’s Anticommunist Crusade and the Mass Murder Program that Shaped Our World. Follow him on Twitter @Vinncent.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVMa5SECI8I

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_22_bevins.mp3

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Scott Horton 0:10

All right, y'all welcome it's Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow. All right, you guys introducing Vincent Bevins And he wrote about Brazil for the LA Times and Indonesia for The Washington Post. And he's got this brand new book out the Jakarta method. Washington's anti communist crusade and the mass murder program that you shaped our world. And unfortunately, I just don't have the time to read the thing right now. I'm very busy. But I did read this great excerpt adapted from it. At the New York Review of Books, that's ny books.com. It's called how Jakarta became the code word for us back mass killing. Welcome back to the show. Vincent, how are you doing?

Vincent Bevins 1:27

Good. How are you?

Scott Horton 1:28

I'm doing great. And yeah, I'm really sorry. I don't have time to get to the whole book right now.

Pete Quinones talks about his new project, The Monopoly on Violence, a documentary featuring interviews with many prominent figures in the libertarian and anarchist movements. The film explores the history of both statism and anarchism, explaining the nature of government as the only entity with a monopoly on the legal use of force, and advocates alternatives to this barbaric system. You can watch now on YouTube, and soon the documentary will be available on Amazon and Netflix.

Discussed on the show:

“The Monopoly On Violence” (YouTube)

Against the Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States

The Art of Not Being Governed: An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast Asia

The Machinery of Freedom: Guide to a Radical Capitalism 2nd edition by David D. Friedman (1989) Paperback

Pete Quinones is managing editor of the Libertarian Institute and hosts the Free Man Beyond the Wall podcast. He is the author of Freedom Through Memedom: The 31-Day Guide to Waking Up to Liberty and is co-producing the documentary, The Monopoly On Violence.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMddMuC2rIs

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_19_quinones.mp3

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Scott Horton 0:10

All right, shall welcome and Scott Horton show. I am the director of the libertarian Institute editorial director of anti war calm, author of the book fool's errand, time to end the war in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at scotthorton.org dot org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed full archive is also [email protected] slash Scott Horton show. Aren't you guys on the line? I've got Pete Quinones. And he is the managing editor of the libertarian Institute. He also put out the books that kids are not all right. And freedom through mean dumb and he is one of the producers of this new documentary. I think you'll really like It's called the monopoly on violence. Welcome back to the show Pete How you doing?

Pete Quinones 1:07

Good to be with you, Scott and doing well.

Scott Horton 1:09

Pete I don't think you've written any blog entries about the movie or articles kind of explaining debuting the movie for the institute since it came out.

Pete Quinones 1:19

What I'm waiting to do is the version of it that we put on YouTube has some has some flaws in it, audio level here and there. But it was just one of those things where everything that was happening in the world with the riots and everything we were just like, let's get this out there and see what people think we've only had like 10 people, including yourself, say anything about you know what was in it, and you know, and or audio levels, or maybe a vocal gets clipped somewhere. So what out I was gonna wait until we're prepping it. Now to upload to Amazon and when you upload it to Amazon, it has to be perfect. So that's what we're doing right now we're re recording a couple of the narration parts. And then we're going to send it to a guy who is going to professional audio guy who is going to level everything out the sound is going to be perfect. And then that's what I was gonna start talking about it on the inside.

Scott Horton 2:21

Okay, so it's, it's open.

Danny Sjursen talks about the Mexican-American War, a seldom-discussed conflict that he maintains holds lessons for America today. Sjursen describes a pattern that by now—with our long experience of the war on terrorism—should be all too familiar: a U.S. president deliberately setting up the conditions for war, forcing another country to react, lying about America’s involvement, and then eventually having to remain in the country as an occupying and rebuilding force for years afterward. At the time, several prominent politicians and generals inveighed against the war as unnecessary and unjust, but to little avail. Despite its relevance, this war has been all but forgotten by Americans today.

Discussed on the show:

“The Tortured Legacy of the Mexican-American War, Part 1” (The Future of Freedom Foundation)

A People’s History of the United States

A Wicked War: Polk, Clay, Lincoln, and the 1846 U.S. Invasion of Mexico

Danny Sjursen is a retired U.S. army major and former history instructor at West Point. He writes regularly for TomDispatch.com and he’s the author of “Ghost Riders of Baghdad: Soldiers, Civilians, and the Myth of the Surge.” Follow him on Twitter @SkepticalVet.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_19_sjursen.mp3

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Scott Horton 0:10

All right, y’all welcome it’s Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool’s Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I’ve recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow. Hey guys on the line, it’s Danny Sjursen. former Army major. He was in Iraq war to Afghanistan. He wrote the book, Ghost writers of Baghdad, and he’s written all over the place for everything important on the internet, including and especially antiwar.com Calm, and where he is a contributing writer, and whatever we call him, and also the future Freedom Foundation fff.org. And this one is called the tortured legacy of the Mexican American War part one, which means I’ve only read part one, part two and three, but I want to hear the whole thing. So go ahead, Mr. Former history professor at West Point, and tell us all about the Mexican American war.

Danny Sjursen 1:32

Well, you know, I

Scott Horton 1:34

welcome the show, Danny, how are you?

Danny Sjursen 1:37

Yeah, no, thanks for having me. And, you know, I’m always happy to geek out a little so Mexican wars. Great.

Scott Horton 1:43

Yeah. And you know what, this is one that I know a little bit about, cuz I did read Zen. But, and I know a little bit about it, other than that, too, but Well, I’m sure. happy to hear all about it all over again. So please go ahead.

Danny Sjursen 1:58

Yeah, you know, I got it. A very different take on the Mexican American War as I, you know, read past the sort of triumphalist histories, especially in grad school and then having the opportunity to teach it. And you know, I do a lot of historical analogy pieces, and anybody who specializes in anything or has an interest in anything wants to tell you that their war or their subject is the one that’s, you know, most relevant to today. So, you know,

Scott talks to Bas Spliet about the state of the ongoing war in Yemen, in which America continues to support Saudi Arabia in its victimization of the Yemeni people. Spliet describes the true situation that American media is loath to tell you: America is fighting on the side of al Qaeda, arguably America’s only real enemies, simply because the Houthi “rebels” have a possible connection with Iran. America could end the war tomorrow, but instead continues to let thousands of civilians die needlessly.

Discussed on the show:

“In Yemen, Western Foreign Policy Is Empowering al-Qaeda” (Antiwar.com Original)

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_19_spliet.mp3Podcast (thescotthortonshow): Play in new window | Download

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Scott Horton 0:00

For Pacifica radio, June 21 2020. I'm Scott Horton. This is anti war radio.

All right, y'all welcome it's Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow. Introducing Bas Spliet. He has written quite a few articles for us now at antiwar.com dot com, including this extremely important one from last week in Yemen. Western foreign policy is empowering al Qaeda. Welcome back. The show Bas, how are you doing, sir?

Bas Spliet 1:02

Very good, sir. That's

Scott Horton 1:06

great. Very happy to have you here. And it is such an important story. It's sort of the Forgotten War in real time, America's war in Yemen. We're leading from behind as the Obama is put it, in the war in Libya. Same kind of thing here. The Obama government started it with the Saudis in 2015. Trump has continued it, of course, throughout his presidency. And even though if you just asked a man on the street, you know, who do you think were fighting in Yemen? They might guess well, Al Qaeda, right. Maybe the guys that bomb Nicole tried to blow up the plane over Detroit, and I think they would be shocked to find out that Actually, no, we're fighting a war for Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, against their local enemies. But how could that be that sounds crazy Bas, please take us through it here.

Bas Spliet 1:58

Yeah, definitely. Sounds crazy. And it's probably results of the fact that they make the war seem very complex. And they give very little information about it, and they don't really tell people about it. So people just go along with this. But let me just see where I started seeing investigation in late April, after reports came out on the American news sites. alternative media sites, means press news, concerning some very disturbing revelations that a Yemeni journalist had uncovered. That in the fights between the Hootie forces recharged Shiite insurgents that took over the government in 215, and have held the Capitol ever since they took over two desert villages on the front line in the war against the forces of doublemint. So heady, which is the deposed president, which saw you that coalition is trying to reinstall and which are our allies. Which as we've said, We are leading from behind. And from these reports, he was clear that there were video shares, spontaneous videos that we made.

Scott interviews Eric Margolis about the recent border skirmishes between Chinese and Indian troops, which have resulted in deaths on both sides. The border between these two countries has been in dispute practically since its creation, and neither Scott nor Margolis sees a simple resolution anytime soon. Luckily the latest clash seems to have been limited to spontaneous hand-to-hand brawling, rather than representing a coordinated strategic attack, and Margolis thinks it's unlikely to escalate any further for the moment. Still, if the border dispute were to escalate, the entire world could be in danger, since both countries have nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, President Trump doesn't appear to be helping the situation, as he tries to strengthen America's relationship with India as an ally in the growing hostilities against China.

Eric Margolis is a foreign affairs correspondent and author of War at the Top of the World and American Raj. Follow him on Twitter @EricMargolis and visit his website, ericmargolis.com.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3j2GLM7yC4

 

The following is an automatically generated transcript.

Show Transcript

Scott Horton 0:10

All right, y'all welcome it's Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow. All right, you guys on the line. I've got the great Eric Margolis, Eric margulies.com, split like Margolis. Eric Margulies calm and of course, he wrote the great books war at the top of the world and American Raj, liberation or domination and He well, more the top of the world. He really did spend a lot of time in previous years over there at the one of the major crossroads of the world at the highest elevations there between India, China, and the Afghan Pakistan, you know, region. They're all around their Kashmir and all of that stuff. Great book, man. And I'm telling you, you know, if you've been reading Eric Margulies articles for years, and you know how great he is, you'll still be blown away by how great the book or at the top of the world is an American rush to and they're both so great. Anyway. So the reason I have you on Eric is because you're a guy No. And you know about this extremely important issue that there are so very few experts on and that is the relationship between China and India, which has come very much to head in the last week as soldiers sides have been killed in skirmishes up there at the top of the world. So first of all, welcome back, my friend, how are you and glad to talk to you again.

Eric Margolis 2:10

I'm living under house arrest, but I'm okay with it. I need a little break from the rest of the world and fighting awful evil viruses and still fighting with the crazy people in the media.

Scott Horton 2:25

That's right. So you got your priorities straight, making the best of a bad situation. Good to know. I'm glad to know that you're doing well. And listen, so man, is it really right these guys I read a thing. They had clubs wrapped in barbed wire. The Chinese did and beat the Indians to death. They're in some Borderlands skirmish over where the line really is.

Eric Margolis 2:52

Scott talks to Jacob Sullum about the many ways policing in America disproportionately targets black and hispanic communities, both by means of explicitly racist policies, and also those that have racially skewed impacts without necessarily having been conceived that way in the first place. Sullum cites many examples of the disparate treatment of black and brown people that are difficult to dismiss with explanations based on differential crime rates or heavier police presences in certain neighborhoods. He also reviews some of the history of the war on drugs, a policy that has, perhaps above all others, been responsible for the cruel victimization of American minority communities for decades.

Discussed on the show:

“Racially skewed policing is not a statistical mirage” (Chicago Sun-Times)

“The Wire (TV Series 2002–2008)” (IMDb)

Jacob Sullum is a senior editor at Reason and a nationally syndicated columnist. Follow him on Twitter @jacobsullum.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by1lek8hCy4

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_19_sullum.mp3

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Scott Horton 0:10

All right, y'all welcome it's Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow. Alright you guys introducing Jacob solem, senior editor at Reason magazine and writer of great stuff all the time, too much for us to fit. In today's show. Unfortunately, I have a hard stop in quarter of an hour here. But I want to start at least with this really important racially skewed policing is not a statistical mirage. And this goes to a very important debate about systemic racism in America in American policing. And what that even means exactly and who may or may not actually be collectively guilty of it, and all kinds of stuff. So welcome the show. Thank you for joining us, Jacob. How are you?

Jacob Sullum 1:26

All right, how are you?

Scott Horton 1:27

I'm really good. appreciate you joining us here. So well, do like you do in the piece here. Take us through some of the statistics. Help us understand the landscape and then tell us what it all means you think.

Jacob Sullum 1:41

Okay. Well, I mean, there are very clear racial disparities in law enforcement. I think a lot of conservatives and republicans want to say that you have to look at crime rates. Perhaps you have to look at I don't know how to say this without sounding racist. You have to look at how black people react when they have encounters with police versus how white and black. I've heard that as well. But I think that if you look at the data, these are not adequate explanations very clearly. And I'll just give you a few examples. When people do have encounters with police, according to a national survey that's sponsored by the Bureau of Justice Statistics. Black people are much more likely about two and a half times as likely to report that the police officers use or threatened to use force. That's hard to explain by reference to differential crime rates.

Mike Maharrey untangles the complex web of legal history that has given America the system known as qualified immunity, which in practice shields police officers from just about any civil lawsuit. The doctrine, which has emerged out of the precedents set by repeated federal court rulings, makes it almost impossible to sue state agents for constitutional violations or other damages suffered during the performance of their jobs. This is mainly because the courts have decided that unless there is specific precedent for the situation the officer finds himself in, discretion must be left up to the officer. In the prominent cases this has meant that if a cop shoots a civilian, as long as other cops say that the shooting was reasonable at the time, the officer will walk free. Maharrey calls for a system that doesn’t rely so much on strict interpretation of specific legal precedent, but instead can allow a judge and jury to use some common sense in adjudicating each situation, the way common law systems operated prior to the founding of the United States. However qualified immunity comes to an end, Scott and Maharrey agree that it is the most important first step in creating a more just police system.

Discussed on the show:

“How Federal Courts Gave Us Qualified Immunity” (Tenth Amendment Center)

Bivens v. Six Unknown Named Agents of Federal Bureau of Narcotics

Cop Block

“Rep. Justin Amash Wants To End Qualified Immunity. Where Are the Republicans?” (Reason)

“Tamir Rice’s Basically Reasonable Murder” (Simple Justice)

Mike Maharrey is National Communications Coordinator for the Tenth Amendment Center. He is the author of three books on nullification and hosts the Thoughts from Maharrey Head podcast. Find him on Twitter @mmaharrey10th.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5JNshiwYJw

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_19_maharrey.mp3

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Show Transcript

Scott Horton 0:10

All right, y'all welcome it's Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow. Alright you guys introducing the great Mike Maharrey from the 10th amendment center and also from the libertarian Institute where he writes sometimes, but this one's at the 10th amendment center. And I think we reprinted it too anyway. But yeah, it's called how federal courts gave us qualified immunity. Welcome back to the show my carry you

Mike Maharrey 0:59

Hey, Scott, I'm doing great. Always happy to be on with you.

Scott Horton 1:03

Great. I hate this subject, but it's so interesting. But it really is right where the rubber meets the road. So make everyone understand everything there is to know that you know about this subject. Go.

Mike Maharrey 1:19

I'm gonna try to make it as simple as I can because

Scott Horton 1:22

no man make it complicated. I want to know everything, everything.

Mike Maharrey 1:26

Well, I don't want people to get lost in it.

Scott interviews Jeff Abramson about America’s convoluted process for selling weapons to foreign governments. The arms trade is a multi-billion dollar industry for private firms like Raytheon—but it’s also a process that is highly controlled by the U.S. government, muddying the incentives and leading to a public-private partnership with very little accountability and unfailingly terrible results. Abramson describes the circular way in which weapons companies and various branches of government push both their own selfish interests and what they believe to be in the country’s interest, to create a self-perpetuating system that no one can quite take the blame for. The result, tragically, is nothing but money in the pockets of the arms manufacturers and more dead civilians abroad.

Discussed on the show:

“Leahy Law Fact Sheet” (United States Department of State)

“U.S. to Allow Expanded Landmine Use” (Arms Control Association)

Jeff Abramson is a senior fellow for conventional arms control and transfers at the Arms Control Association. Follow him on Twitter @jeffabramson.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

https://dissentradio.com/radio/20_06_19_abramson.mp3Podcast (thescotthortonshow): Play in new window | Download

The following is an automatically generated transcript.

Show Transcript

Scott Horton 0:10

All right, y'all welcome it's Scott Horton Show. I am the director of the Libertarian Institute editorial director of antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan. And I've recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at ScottHorton.org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed. The full archive is also available at youtube.com/ScottHortonShow. Okay guys, introducing Jeff Abramson. He is Senior Fellow for conventional arms control and transfers at the Arms Control Association. That's arms control.org. Welcome to the show. How's it going?

Jeff Abramson 0:54

Going? Well, thanks for having me on.

Scott Horton 0:56

Great. Really happy to have you here. And typically We're not talking about banning small arms in, you know, Second Amendment stuff. We're talking about International Military arms transfers here. And in fact, unlike usual, we're not basing this interview off a specific article that you've written so much as a question that came up in the Reddit room, which was, hey, Scott, could you get a good expert on to explain really the nuts and bolts so I can imagine how it works about how these massive military arms transfers are arranged. It's clearly nothing free market about it. It's all state licenses and different agencies and politics and congressional leaders involved and who knows what kind of lobbying and favoritism and all kinds of mechanics. So, hey, Scott, find somebody who can really teach us the mechanics. And so I asked bill Hartung because he's about the best on this stuff. And he says, You should talk Dr. Jeff Abramson. So that's why I'm talking to you. What if, say I was a Raytheon salesman, and I was trying to help commit genocide in Yemen for the bucks? How would I go about doing that?

Jeff Abramson 2:18

That's an interesting way to frame it. But yeah, thanks for bringing me on. The US does have a really complicated system on how it sells weapons. And it's true that there are all sorts of actors, including the government, including companies. And I'm happy to sort of piece that through. There's lots of bits to it.