A teenage girl was sexually assaulted at a party. People knew it was happening. They took photos. They made videos. They joked about it. They posted about it online. And almost no one stepped in.

In 2012, a 16-year-old girl in Steubenville, Ohio, was sexually assaulted by high-school football players Trent Mays and Ma'Lik Richmond while she was severely intoxicated and unable to consent. But what made the case especially disturbing was how many other teenagers knew what was happening—and how openly some of them documented, mocked and discussed it afterward. The social-media evidence would eventually become crucial to the case.

Dana and Jacky go beyond the question of what happened to ask something much harder:

Why didn't anybody stop it?

They examine the psychology of the bystander effect, pluralistic ignorance, social status, conformity and group behavior—including the possibility that one high-status teenager speaking up might have changed the behavior of everyone else in the room.

They also look at the strange double-edged role of social media. The same technology used to humiliate and further victimize the girl also created a digital trail that helped expose what happened.

And then comes an uncomfortable question: What happens when the people around you seem to treat something horrific as normal?

Could the group's reaction actually change an individual's perception of right and wrong? Would these teenagers have behaved differently if there had only been three people in the room instead of a crowd? And could one respected person saying "This is wrong" have broken the spell?

This episode also asks whether teenagers who participated in or celebrated something horrific can genuinely change as they become adults—and whether remorse years later should change the way we see who they were at 16. Dana and Jacky wrestle with that question directly.

This is Part One of our discussion. Next, The Secret Passage turns to the Brock Turner/Chanel Miller case—and the uncomfortable similarities between what happened at a high-school party in Ohio and what happened three years later on Stanford's campus.

What do you think: If ONE popular person at that party had stood up and said, "This is wrong," would everyone else have followed?

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Content warning: This episode discusses sexual assault involving a minor, victim blaming and disturbing descriptions of sexual violence.

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Roll Red Roll — PBS/POV The documentary examines the Steubenville assault, the football culture surrounding it, the role of social media and the behavior of the bystanders. PBS also provides discussion guides, reading lists and educational resources. Watch and learn more about Roll Red Roll on PBS

Bystander Intervention — RAINN RAINN: Stop Sexual Violence — Step In With CARE

Pluralistic Ignorance & the Bystander Effect — Research Pluralistic ignorance can occur when people privately think something is wrong but observe everyone else's inaction and mistakenly conclude that they may be the one overreacting. Researchers also describe diffusion of responsibility and fear of evaluation as barriers to intervention. Read the research on pluralistic ignorance and bystander intervention

Rape Myths, Social Media & Steubenville — Peer-Reviewed Research This study specifically analyzed the Steubenville case and examined how social media and news coverage both reinforced and challenged rape myths surrounding the victim, perpetrators and assault. The Presence of Rape Myths in the Virtual World: The Steubenville Sexual Assault Case

Social Media and the Steubenville Narrative — Digital Journalism Researchers analyzed hundreds of local and national articles about Steubenville to examine how social-media sources shaped portrayals of the victim and perpetrators. Victimized on Plain Sites: Social and Alternative Media's Impact on the Steubenville Rape Case

Roll Red Roll Educational Clips & Discussion Materials This is actually a fantastic link for listeners who want to go deeper without necessarily watching the entire documentary. American Documentary provides clips addressing the students, digital activism, social media and people who spoke up. Roll Red Roll Educational Resources & Film Clips

Everybody in this love triangle was lying. One of them ended up dead.

In this installment of Moms Behaving Badly, Dana and Jacky dive into the bizarre TallHotBlond case. Middle-aged husband Thomas Montgomery reinvented himself online as a young Marine named "Tommy" and fell for 17-year-old "Jessi."

But Jessi wasn't Jessi. She was Mary Shieler—the teenager's own mother—using her daughter's identity and photographs online. Then 22-year-old Brian Barrett entered the picture, and an online fantasy became deadly.

Beyond the murder, Dana and Jacky explore the psychology of catfishing, masculinity, online disinhibition, self-discrepancy, fantasy and our increasingly curated digital identities.

Was Thomas obsessed with Jessi—or with the man he got to become when he was talking to her?

And the bigger question: Are we really that different today?

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Want to dig deeper into the psychology behind this case?

🧠 The Online Disinhibition Effect — John Suler Why anonymity, invisibility and distance can change the way we behave online.

🪞 Self-Discrepancy Theory — E. Tory Higgins The psychology of the actual self, ideal self and ought self—and what happens when the person we are doesn't match the person we desperately want to be.

🎭 Why Do People Catfish? — Psychology Today Loneliness, insecurity, identity exploration and the psychology behind creating someone else online.

📱 Deceptive Self-Presentation on Social Media — Research Study Research examining why people create deceptive versions of themselves on social media.

🔎 Cyber Love Triangle Fuels Murder — ABC News More background on Thomas Montgomery, Brian Barrett and the bizarre online triangle behind the TalHotBlond case.

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What happens when the person your child turns to for protection is secretly the person hurting her?

In this episode of Secret Passage: Moms Behaving Badly: Mom, Bully, Stalker, Dana and Jacky examine the bizarre and deeply disturbing case of Kendra Licari, the Michigan mother who secretly sent anonymous, harassing messages to her teenage daughter Lauryn and Lauryn's then-boyfriend, Owen.

For months, the teenagers and their families tried to figure out who was behind the messages. Friends and classmates became suspects. Relationships fractured. Law enforcement became involved. And all the while, Kendra appeared to be another concerned mother trying to help uncover the person tormenting her daughter.

Then investigators traced the messages back to Kendra herself.

Following the case featured in Netflix's Unknown Number: The High School Catfish, Dana and Jacky go beyond the shocking reveal and ask the question the documentary leaves hanging:

Why would a mother do this to her own child?

Jacky brings a therapist's perspective to the conversation as they explore attention-seeking behavior, betrayal trauma, attachment, empathy, control, jealousy, possible psychological motivations, and the enormous difference between explaining someone's behavior and excusing it.

They also examine some of the most uncomfortable questions surrounding the case:

Was Kendra trying to keep Lauryn dependent on her? Why did so much of the harassment revolve around Lauryn's relationship with Owen? Why were some of the messages sexual in nature? What was Kendra's end goal? Was her remorse about what she'd done—or about finally getting caught? And how does a child rebuild her ability to trust when the person who was supposed to be her safest relationship became the source of the danger?

Kendra ultimately pleaded guilty to two counts of stalking a minor and was sentenced to 19 months to five years in prison. She was released in August 2024.

And perhaps the biggest question:

Can a mother and daughter ever truly repair a relationship after a betrayal like this?

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This episode discusses cyberbullying, emotional abuse, sexualized harassment involving minors, and suicide-related threats.

Further Reading & Watching

Netflix — Where are Kendra and Lauryn now?

Read Netflix Tudum's update on the Licari family

TIME — The true story behind Unknown Number

Read TIME's account of the Kendra Licari case

A&E — The psychology question This article specifically examines the comparison some people have made between Kendra's behavior and "Munchausen by Internet," while exploring the dangers of trying to attach a clinical explanation to behavior without sufficient evidence.

Read A&E's psychological exploration of the case

People — Did Kendra tell the truth? Director Skye Borgman discusses her lengthy interview with Kendra, Kendra's explanations for her behavior, and why the documentary doesn't necessarily validate Kendra's version of events.

Read People's interview about Kendra's account

Lindsay Clancy killed her three young children. But was she a calculating murderer—or a mother experiencing a catastrophic psychiatric break? Dana and GenXJacky examine the medication timeline, warning signs, mental-health treatment, Patrick Clancy's role, social-media misinformation, and the hardest question of all: what does justice look like in a case like this?

Postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis are not interchangeable. Postpartum psychosis can involve a significant loss of contact with reality and is considered a psychiatric emergency. Someone experiencing hallucinations, delusions, paranoia, severe confusion or other symptoms suggesting psychosis needs immediate professional evaluation.

A note about medication: This episode discusses several psychiatric medications in the context of the Lindsay Clancy case. Individual responses to medication vary considerably. Nothing discussed in this episode should be interpreted as medical advice or as a reason to begin, discontinue or change a psychiatric medication without consulting an appropriate medical provider.

If you believe you or someone else is experiencing postpartum psychosis or there is an immediate danger to a parent, baby or another person, seek emergency medical care immediately. NIMH specifically characterizes postpartum psychosis as a psychiatric emergency requiring hospitalization.

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Resources for Listeners

If this episode raised concerns about your own mental health—or the mental health of someone you love—help is available. Postpartum depression, anxiety and other perinatal mental-health conditions are treatable. Postpartum psychosis is a psychiatric emergency and can involve delusions, hallucinations, mania, paranoia and confusion.

• National Maternal Mental Health Hotline — 1-833-TLC-MAMA (1-833-852-6262) Free, confidential support for pregnant and postpartum people and their partners/family members, available 24/7. Counselors can provide emotional support and connect callers with local services and providers. National Maternal Mental Health Hotline
• Postpartum Support International (PSI) PSI provides information, support groups, provider directories and resources for postpartum depression, anxiety, psychosis and other perinatal mental-health concerns. The Massachusetts PSI warm line is 866-472-1897; Massachusetts also lists PSI among its recommended postpartum resources. Massachusetts Perinatal Mental Health Resources & PSI Support
• National Institute of Mental Health — Perinatal Depression & Postpartum Psychosis A particularly good educational resource for listeners who came away from the episode wondering about the difference between postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis, warning signs, risk factors and treatment. NIMH: Perinatal Depression and Postpartum Psychosis
• Massachusetts Perinatal Mood & Anxiety Disorder Resources Since the Clancy case occurred in Massachusetts, this is a nice case-specific addition. The state provides resources covering postpartum depression, anxiety, bipolar-spectrum disorders, OCD, PTSD and postpartum psychosis, as well as information for partners and families. Massachusetts PMAD Resources for Families

Who was the real Jodi Arias? Host Dana Vespoli and therapist Gen X Jacky explore the complicated relationship between Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander through the lenses of psychology, attachment, identity, religion, sexuality, rejection, and deception. From Jodi's "chameleon" qualities and conflicting stories to disputed psychological testimony and allegations of abuse, Dana and Jacky ask what we can actually know about the woman behind one of America's most notorious murder cases—and where psychological explanation ends and personal responsibility begins.

Resources & Further Reading

For listeners who want to explore some of the issues raised in this episode:

National Domestic Violence Hotline — Information about relationship abuse, warning signs, safety planning, and confidential support. The Hotline offers phone, text, and live-chat assistance. National Domestic Violence Hotline

U.S. Department of Justice — Office on Violence Against Women — Resources for victims and survivors, including links to national hotlines and local service providers. DOJ Resources for Victims and Survivors

988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline — Free, confidential crisis support in the United States by calling or texting 988, with chat support also available online. 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline

Important note: Our discussion of psychological diagnoses and personality traits is intended for education and commentary. We distinguish between diagnoses presented by experts in connection with the case and our own discussion of behaviors or possible psychological explanations. A diagnosis alone does not explain or predict violent behavior.

Content warning: This episode discusses homicide, graphic violence, stalking, sexual content, alleged domestic violence, childhood abuse, animal abuse, and mental health.

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What could drive two seemingly ordinary teenagers to brutally murder someone they knew—and why did they appear to treat it like the making of a horror movie?

In this episode of Secret Passage, Dana and Jacky examine one of the most disturbing adolescent murder cases in recent history: the killing of Cassie Jo Stoddart by classmates Brian Draper and Torey Adamcik.

Together, they go beyond the headlines to explore the psychology behind the crime, discussing adolescent brain development, identity formation, peer influence, fantasy versus reality, violent ideation, and the warning signs that may have preceded the attack. Jacky also explains why psychology cannot predict violence with certainty, why most teenagers fascinated by horror or true crime never become violent, and what research tells us about the rare pathways that can lead to extreme acts.

The conversation expands beyond the Stoddart case to compare Columbine and other high-profile acts of teen violence, exploring questions about copycat behavior, the search for notoriety, adolescent development, punishment versus rehabilitation, and what families, schools, and communities can learn from these tragedies.

Rather than sensationalizing the crime, Secret Passage asks the more difficult question:

How does someone become capable of doing something unthinkable—and what can we learn from it?

In this episode, we discuss:

• The murder of Cassie Jo Stoddart
• Brian Draper & Torey Adamcik
• Adolescent brain development
• Fantasy vs. reality
• Violent ideation and identity formation
• Peer influence and co-offending
• Columbine comparisons
• Warning signs in adolescent violence
• Nature vs. nurture
• Mental illness and violence: separating fact from fiction
• What parents and educators should know

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Resources & Links:

• Katie's Law - AB 1575 - California legislation for student rights during disciplinary hearings
• The Psychological Impact of School Violence
• Systemic Failures in Youth Justice
• School Violence and Prevention Resources
• The Blair Witch Effect in Media and Youth Behavior

Skylar Neese and the Complexities of Juvenile Justice: A Deep Dive into a Tragic Case

Join us as we explore the disturbing case of Skylar Neese, a 16-year-old girl whose murder by her friends Sheila Eddy and Rachel Shoaf shocked a community and ignited debates on juvenile culpability and sentencing. We discuss the social, psychological, and legal factors intertwined in this case, highlighting the roles of social media, peer influence, and mental health.

In this episode:

• The detailed recounting of Skylar Neese's murder and the teenagers involved
• How social media amplified tensions and contributed to the crime
• The psychological profiles of the offenders and the concept of Folie à Deux
• Legal proceedings, sentencing, and the debate over juvenile life sentences
• The potential for remorse, rehabilitation, and the importance of considering individual backgrounds
• Broader implications on juvenile justice and moral accountability

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to the Skylar Neese case and its significance 02:13 - The circumstances leading up to the murder 04:11 - Skylar's background and social media presence 05:55 - The friendship dynamics and betrayal among the teens 09:28 - The planning and execution of the murder 15:45 - Discovery of Skylar's body and police investigation 19:11 - The suspects' stories and inconsistencies in their accounts 22:28 - Interrogations, confessions, and plea deals 24:15 - Sentencing details for Sheila Eddy and Rachel Shoaf 27:33 - Psychological perspectives: brain development, remorse, and psychopathy 32:40 - The influence of social media and peer pressure 36:25 - Folie à Deux and the psychological link between the offenders 39:32 - The dehumanization process during the crime 44:10 - The role of social media in escalating adolescent anger and rage 48:24 - The absence of remorse and its implications 51:33 - Justice, redemption, and the potential for change—should juveniles be afforded parole? 55:42 - The science of juvenile brain development and its impact on sentencing 60:37 - A personal reflection on youth, influence, and moral growth 66:41 - The importance of background, trauma, and environment in criminal behavior 70:13 - Rehabilitative opportunities and the future of juvenile offenders 73:42 - Wrapping up and teasing upcoming topics on juvenile justice and sentencing debates

Resources & Links:

• Folie à Deux - Mental Health Resource
• Juvenile Justice Reform - The Supreme Court Decision (2012)
• Skylar Neese's Twitter Profile (archived)
• Related Articles on Juvenile Sentencing: The Juvenile Sentencing Debate

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In this episode of the Secret Passage Podcast we unpack the Mackenzie Shirilla case. We examine the 2022 crash in Strongsville, Ohio, where 17-year-old Mackenzie drove 100 mph into a brick wall, killing her boyfriend Dominic and friend Davion. We explore her influencer ambitions, reckless lifestyle, and the bigger cultural issues of social media narcissism, substance use, and permissive parenting. It's a raw discussion on teen vulnerability, accountability, and how this tragedy reflects deeper problems in modern youth culture.

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Secret Passage Podcast is hosted by Dana Vespoli and Shannon Rogers

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Episode Art: AJ

In Part 2 of our deep dive into the Toolbox Killers, we follow Lawrence Bittaker and Roy Norris from their unlikely prison friendship to the shocking trial. Prosecutor Stephen Kay presents devastating evidence—including the customized Murder Mac van, torture tools, victim Polaroids, and the horrifying 17-minute audio recording of Lynette Ledford's final moments—while Bittaker sits in court with chilling arrogance. We explore the killers' contrasting personalities, the fragile "bromance" that fueled their crimes, and criminologist Laura Brand's disturbing interviews with Bittaker on death row. Along the way, we wrestle with bigger questions: Was Bittaker destined to kill? Can someone like him be rehabilitated? And how do we balance compassion, accountability, and justice in the face of pure evil?

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Secret Passage Podcast is hosted by Dana Vespoli and Shannon Rogers

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In the summer of 1979, sunny Southern California hid a nightmare. This week we dive into the disturbing story of the Toolbox Killers, Lawrence Bittaker and Roy Norris, who turned a customized "Murder Mac" van into a mobile chamber of horror. We discuss the abduction of 16-year-old Cindy Schaefer near Redondo Beach, setting the stage for a meticulously planned spree of rape, torture, and murder targeting teenage girls along the Pacific Coast Highway. Against the backdrop of roller skates, disco music, and California dreams, the killers' sadistic partnership reveals chilling contrasts between everyday life and pure evil.

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Instagram: @secretpassagepodcast

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Secret Passage Podcast is hosted by Dana Vespoli and Shannon Rogers

Producer: Tim Rogers

Editor: Mitch Silver

Episode Art: AJ