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What if everything we think we know about residential childcare is wrong? What if, for some children, it's not the dreaded last resort but actually the best option for healing and growth?

Dr. Laura Steckley, who leads the MSc in Advanced Residential Child Care at the University of Strathclyde, brings three decades of practice, research, and teaching experience to challenge our assumptions. Having worked in both the United States and Scotland, she offers a refreshing perspective on what quality residential care can achieve when properly understood and supported.

The conversation upends conventional wisdom by revealing research showing many children who've experienced both foster care and residential settings actually prefer the latter. For children who find family environments emotionally threatening due to past trauma, residential care offers unique advantages: multiple caring relationships increasing the chance of meaningful connection, natural breaks preventing relationship burnout, and the therapeutic power of peer groups.

Dr. Steckley's groundbreaking research on physical restraint reveals surprising nuance. Rather than viewing restraint as universally negative, she introduces containment theory – a framework for understanding how adults help make "the unmanageable manageable" for distressed children. Her studies found some children reported restraint experiences, when conducted as acts of care rather than control, actually improved their relationships with staff.

Perhaps most powerfully, Dr. Steckley asserts that "in the daily minutiae of good care is where healing and developmental ground is regained." This elevates the importance of residential childcare workers and recognizes the complexity of their work. She also explores how shame, possibly our most "uncontainable" emotion, often manifests as rage in traumatized children, and how staff need proper support themselves to provide effective care.

The episode concludes with a fascinating discussion of attunement, using the famous "still face" experiment to demonstrate how children escalate behavior when seeking emotional connection – offering a radical reframing of how we might respond to challenging behaviors in care settings.

Listen now to gain fresh insights that could transform how you think about caring for our most vulnerable children.

Laura's Bio:

Dr Laura Steckley leads up the MSc in Advanced Residential Child Care at the University of Strathclyde and so has the very good fortune of doing teaching and learning with residential child care practitioners.  She has worked in direct and indirect practice in both the United States of America and Scotland. Her teaching, research and knowledge mobilisation are mostly addressed to residential child care practice and education, with a particular focus on physical restraint.  

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Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce.

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What if child maltreatment wasn't an inevitable social problem, but something we could dramatically reduce within a generation? Benjamin Perks, Head of Campaigns and Advocacy at UNICEF, believes this is not only possible but within our grasp.

In this compelling conversation, Ben shares his remarkable journey from the residential care system in the UK—where he experienced gang involvement and street life—to becoming a global leader in child protection at the United Nations. The turning point? A teacher who took him under her wing when he was 15, becoming "the first adult I really had a proper conversation with."

Ben introduces us to the "Four S's" every child needs: to feel secure, safe, seen, and soothed. When children receive these fundamental experiences from family, they develop resilience against adversity. When family support is lacking, schools become the crucial secondary buffer. What's revolutionary about our moment in history is that we now have the knowledge and resources to ensure every child experiences these four essentials.

Drawing powerful parallels to public health victories that reduced child mortality by 61% through simple interventions, Ben outlines how universal parenting programs, extended parental leave, preschool access, and public awareness could achieve similar results with child maltreatment. The economic argument alone is staggering: child maltreatment costs societies up to 12% of GDP, while prevention measures would cost less than 1%.

Ben's personal healing journey demonstrates that recovery is possible at any age. After recognizing how his childhood affected his adult life, therapy transformed his world "from black and white to color." This transformation enabled him to break the cycle of insecure attachment with his own son—proof that intergenerational patterns can be disrupted with the right support.

Discover more in Ben's book "Trauma Proof: Healing, Attachment and the Science of Prevention," which weaves together scientific research with personal narratives of healing from around the world. Join us in believing that we can be the last generation to accept child trauma as inevitable.

About Ben:

Benjamin Perks is the Head of Campaigns and Advocacy in the Division of Global Communications and Advocacy  at the United Nations Children’s Fund, based in New York. He leads public and policy advocacy on the development and protection of children. 

He previously served in human rights diplomacy roles as the UNICEF Representative and UN Resident Coordinator ad interim to both the Republic of North Macedonia and the Republic of Montenegro. In both capacities he advocated for reforms to fulfill international human rights commitments and realization of the Sustainable Development Goals. 

He has served in Georgia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, India and Albania. He coordinated the Back-to-School campaign in the Northern Afghanistan which brought 3 million children, including 1 million girls, into school-most of them for the first times in their lives. He has led work on demobilization of child solders, deinstitutionalization of children in state care, addressing child poverty, pre-school expansion and  disability inclusion.

Edits: 

Ben is referring to Kevin Brown in relation to the speaker about attachment.
When I refer to mosquitoes the study was actually of fleas!

Disclaimer

Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce.

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A series of serendipities and the opportunity to play Winnicott's piano marked Peter Wilson's remarkable journey into child psychotherapy. In this captivating conversation, Peter reveals how a degree in industrial economics led unexpectedly to founding Young Minds, one of the UK's most influential children's mental health charities.

Peter's four years training at the Anna Freud Centre in London during the late 1960s represented a turning point in his life. Working directly with Anna Freud herself, he absorbed the psychoanalytic approach that would define his career spanning more than five decades. His vivid recollections of treating children five times weekly and the intensity of this training provide a window into a therapeutic world that has largely disappeared in our current era.

The most provocative thread running through our conversation is Peter's forthcoming book, "The Adolescent and the Psychotherapist: Why I Don't Know Matters." He argues passionately that embracing uncertainty—both in the therapy room and in policy development—opens space for genuine discovery. When teenagers respond with "I don't know" in therapy, Peter sees not resistance but an authentic state of uncertainty deserving respect. Similarly, he challenges the excessive certainty with which cognitive behavioral therapy is promoted as the treatment of choice despite what he considers limited evidence.

Peter offers a stinging critique of current mental health service delivery models, particularly how the IAPT program and market-based reforms have fragmented services and created competition rather than collaboration between professional disciplines. His observations about the demoralization of the workforce and the devaluing of relationship-based approaches highlight the human cost of these policy directions.

Looking back on his career, Peter wishes he had been more assertive in advocating for psychoanalytic approaches. This reflection reveals a fascinating tension between valuing the humility of "not knowing" while recognizing that sometimes forceful advocacy is needed to protect valuable approaches to understanding human distress. Join us for this profound exploration of a life dedicated to understanding the complexity of children's emotional worlds.

Peter's Bio:

Peter Wilson is a Consultant Child and Adolescent Psychotherapist. 

He qualified  in 1971, having completed his training with Anna Freud in her Centre. 

Since then, he has worked in a variety of organisations, holding senior positions in all of them.

These included three Child Guidance Clinics ( now known as CAMHS), two walk- in Centres for young people, a therapeutic community ( the Peper Harow Community) and the Institute of Psychiatry. 

Peter founded a national charity, called YoungMinds, the purpose of which was to raise public awareness of children’s mental health and to improve multi- discipline services. 

Peter later became Clinical Adviser at ThePlace2Be, a national organisation providing counselling services in schools. 

Peter has maintained a small private child and adolescent psychotherapy practice, and now teaches and provides supervision. He is publishing a book in the autumn, entitled ‘ The Adolescent and the Psychotherapist: why ‘ I don’t’ know’ matters'

Disclaimer

Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce.

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What if everything we thought we knew about helping traumatised children was backwards? In this profound conversation, Adela Holmes reveals the revolutionary approach that transformed lives at Hurstbridge Farm Therapeutic Residential Care Pilot in Victoria.

At the heart of effective therapeutic care lies what Holmes calls "relentless kindness" – an unwavering commitment to relationship-based approaches that prioritise connection over control. Drawing from neurobiology and decades of practice wisdom, she explains why traditional behavioural management techniques often fail our most vulnerable children.

"Before they can make any lasting change in their behaviour, they need to feel safe and loved," Holmes quotes from Bruce Perry's seminal work. She shares compelling stories that illustrate this principle in action – like the 10-year-old boy who initially resisted constant adult supervision but later panicked when he woke up alone, desperately seeking an adult presence he'd come to rely on.

The Hurstbridge model, grounded in neuroscience and relationship-based care, focuses on meeting children where they are developmentally rather than where society expects them to be. Holmes explains why going "to the lowest part of the brain implicated" is essential for creating meaningful change. This means providing countless repetitions of corrective experiences within safe, consistent relationships.

Despite facing criticism and doubt, Holmes persevered with her approach. The results speak volumes – young people who experienced multiple placement breakdowns finding stability, developing trusting relationships, and eventually creating fulfilling lives. One poignant example: a former resident who recently married and shared the news with staff who had cared for him years earlier.

For anyone working with traumatised children – whether in residential care, foster care, or therapeutic settings – this episode offers invaluable insights into creating environments where healing can truly happen. Listen now to discover how relationship-based approaches, informed by neurobiology, can transform the lives of our most vulnerable children.

Disclaimer

Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce.

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Dr. Jenna Bollinger takes us on a revealing journey into the heart of what makes residential care truly effective for vulnerable children and young people. Drawing from her doctoral research on stability in out-of-home care, she challenges conventional wisdom and offers a fresh perspective on how we measure success in these settings.

The podcast opens with a powerful revelation: stability isn't simply about remaining in one placement for a long time. As Dr Bollinger explains, "If I was just told I have to leave my house today for no reason and I don't know where I'm going, I could be in my next house for 12 months, but I don't know how secure I would feel." This insight forms the foundation of her research, which discovered that meaningful relationships are what truly create stability for young people in care.

One of the most touching moments comes when Dr Bollinger shares a story about interviewing a young man who had been in residential care. When she suggested that staff caring about him made a difference, he firmly corrected her: "No, I felt loved." This profound statement highlights what makes residential care work—genuine connections that extend beyond professional boundaries, with former residents maintaining relationships with staff long after leaving care.

Dr Bollinger introduces her "Secure House" model, a practical framework for creating stability in residential settings. Built on a foundation of safety, with walls representing consistent staff relationships, and a ceiling of genuine care, this model provides organizations with clear guidance on what elements must be in place for young people to thrive. She emphasizes that while change is inevitable in these settings, how it's managed makes all the difference.

The conversation also explores how organizations themselves can become traumatized when working with trauma-affected children, and how reflective practice—particularly at leadership levels—can help create healthier workplaces where staff feel heard and valued. 

Wondering how to improve outcomes for the most vulnerable children in our community? Listen now to discover practical insights from someone who's dedicated her career to creating healing environments for young people recovering from trauma and disrupted attachments.

Jenna’s Bio 

Jenna has a Masters Degree in Forensic Psychology from the University of New South Wales, and a PhD from Monash University, where she investigated the experience of, and capacity for stability in, residential out of home care. 

Jenna has worked in out of home care in different capacities since 2012 and is currently the Director of Psychology and Clinical Services for Knightlamp, which consults on assessment and implementation of therapeutic programs in out of home care across Australia. 

Jenna also conducts a variety of assessments, including therapeutic assessments for out of home care, forensic assessments and parenting capacity assessments in the context of the child protection system. 

We hope you enjoy our conversation.

Disclaimer

Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce.

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What happens when one person loves a child unconditionally? According to Susan Barton AM, founder of Lighthouse Foundation, "they'll usually make it through." This profound belief forms the backbone of an extraordinary organisation that has transformed the landscape of youth homelessness in Australia over the past 33 years.

Susan's journey began with a shocking encounter in Sri Lanka, where she witnessed a severely malnourished baby covered in abscesses and flies. That moment changed everything. Returning to Australia, she discovered that while our children weren't dying of malnutrition, they faced a different crisis—one of the highest youth suicide rates in the Western world. What started as fostering teenagers in her own home evolved into a revolutionary approach to therapeutic care that has helped over 1,350 young people find healing, with 87% never returning to homelessness.

The Lighthouse model goes far beyond providing shelter. At its core is the understanding that healing happens through relationships and community. Every home is surrounded by a "community committee" of local supporters who become surrogate extended family. All staff engage in reflective practice to understand their emotional responses when working with trauma. Perhaps most revolutionary is their approach to birth families—recognising that "children who have been abused by their parents don't stop loving their parents; they stop loving themselves." Their Young Parents and Babies Programme embodies their philosophy: "We care for the parents so they can care for their children."

Ben Pryke, who left his career in the UK after reading Susan's book on therapeutic residential care, shares powerful stories of transformation—from fathers reconnecting with their children to young mothers learning to play with their babies after their own experiences of childhood trauma. What sets Lighthouse apart is their commitment to long-term support, continuing relationships well beyond the typical age cutoffs, because as Susan explains, "You don't stop being a parent just because they've moved out."

Want to learn how therapeutic care can break cycles of intergenerational trauma? Listen now to discover how one organisation is changing the way Australia approaches youth homelessness—one relationship at a time.

Bio's:

Susan Barton AM founded Lighthouse Foundation 33 years ago and has dedicated her life to helping the most vulnerable children and youth. Her mission is to change the way Australia looks at the issue of child and youth homelessness towards a more therapeutic approach where we create caring communities where all young people – from babies to young adults – can feel safe, form meaningful relationships, and begin their journey to recovery. 

Susan has co-authored two books on childhood trauma, was awarded an Order of Australia for services to youth in Australia, was named Melburnian of the Year in 2009, and was inducted into the Victorian Honour Roll of Women for her significant achievements and contribution to the Victorian community, in 2012.

Inspired by the Lighthouse Foundation’s values and vision for high-quality care, Ben joined the organisation in 2018 as a Therapeutic Carer, supporting children, young people, young parents, and babies in need of a secure base.

In 2021, Ben became the Manager of Youth and Family Services; leading Lighthouse Foundation’s nine therapeutic residential care homes.

We hope you enjoy our conversation.

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Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, o

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Patricia Sheridan's remarkable journey from critical observer to pioneering founder reveals how one person's vision can transform an entire field. When she established Moore House School in 1988, Mrs Sheridan was swimming against the tide of conventional childcare practices in Scotland, where controlling children took precedence over nurturing their potential.

What began as a small residential school has blossomed into the Moore House Group – encompassing residential education, foster care services, and specialized support for neurodiverse children. Throughout this evolution, Mrs Sheridan maintained an unwavering commitment to a revolutionary principle: every child deserves to be surrounded by adults who genuinely believe in their capabilities and potential.

The conversation explores how Mrs Sheridan cultivated an organizational culture where everyone – from teachers to care staff to foster carers – receives consistent training in attachment theory and trauma-informed approaches. This creates what she lovingly calls the "Moore House family," a community united by shared values and language. Particularly moving is her description of care staff learning alongside children, demonstrating that vulnerability and growth are lifelong pursuits for everyone.

Mrs Sheridan's reflections on Scotland's childcare landscape reveal how far the field has come. The language of love, relationships, and potential that once made her an outlier has become mainstream, reflected in national initiatives like "The Promise." While challenges remain, particularly in shifting from damage control to prevention, her optimism is contagious.

Most powerfully, Mrs Sheridan dismantles the myth that traumatized children are inherently difficult to connect with. "Relationships are the vehicle to all healing," she asserts, sharing how creating environments where children feel worthy and capable transforms "impossible" into "I'm possible." Her story proves that institutional change begins with belief – in children's potential and in our own capacity to create more humane systems of care.

Patricia’s Bio

Mrs Sheridan established Moore House School in 1988.  Her drive was to create a service with her personal mantras “Determined to Deliver Excellence” and “I’m Possible” for young people. 

Mrs Sheridan leads the Board of Directors and continues to have a hands-on approach using a range of experiences and techniques to engage with young people to elicit their views on the service they are receiving.  

Her passion is for young people to be supported by adults who believe in their potential and adults who share the organisational values of respect, integrity and dignity for all.  

Mrs Sheridan reminds us that we are responsible for creating trusting relationships and happy memories for our young people.  She strives to ensure that our young people experience as many creative, happy, nurturing memories as possible.

Mrs Sheridan continues to strive for excellence and ensures that her passion for high quality services is cascaded throughout the organisation to encourage each and every team member to recognise the important part they play in the wellbeing and progress that our young people experience.

Disclaimer

Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce.

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Richard Rowlandson draws from over five decades of experience at the Mulberry Bush School to share profound insights about therapeutic residential care for traumatised children. His journey from New York City to the English countryside led to a lifelong commitment to creating environments where troubled children can learn to live with themselves and others.

At the heart of Richard's approach is the concept of belonging. He eloquently unpacks how children who don't feel "held in mind" by adults will produce behaviours to be "on their mind" instead – even when those behaviours have negative consequences. This fundamental understanding transforms how we view challenging behaviour: "If I can't be in their mind, I better be on their mind, because if I'm not either of those places, I'm out of their mind and out of my mind."

Richard shares powerful stories that illuminate the patient, persistent work required to help children heal from relational trauma. Using the beautiful metaphor of "tempo rubato" from music – time that has been stolen – he explains how these children have had their childhood time stolen, and therapeutic communities work to give some of that time back. This perspective challenges our results-driven culture, reminding us that "the long-term hurt many of these children have suffered requires some long-term work."

For educators and caregivers in mainstream settings, Richard offers practical wisdom about the power of community. He suggests that schools have enormous untapped potential to foster belonging simply by creating regular spaces where students can reflect together on "how are we doing?" This simple shift – emphasizing "we" rather than isolating troubled individuals – could transform school cultures without requiring them to become full therapeutic communities.

Whether you work directly with traumatised children or simply care about creating more healing environments for young people, this conversation offers both practical guidance and profound inspiration. Richard's lifetime commitment to this work stands as testament to its value, with former pupils still reaching out decades later to acknowledge the difference it made in their lives.

Richard’s Bio

Richard has a long association with Residential Therapeutic Communities, having worked at the Mulberry Bush School for well over 20 years and where, from 1991 to 2001, he was its Director. He was also Director, Children and Young People, at the Peper Harow Foundation, from 2001 to 2005. 

Richard qualified as a Social Worker with an MSc from Oxford University in 1983, following the then Part 1 training in Child Psychotherapy at the Tavistock Centre. In 2005 he completed the Ashridge MA and training in Organisational Consulting. He has been Chairman of the Charterhouse Group of Therapeutic Communities and for many years the Chairman of the Care Leavers’ Foundation. In 2014 he became Chair of Trustees at the Mulberry Bush School, only recently stepping down from that position, while remaining a Trustee with a special brief for the links and development of the contacts with and participation of former pupils. He has published numerous articles and continues to lecture widely across the UK and Europe.

We hope you like our chat.

Disclaimer

Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce.

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Andrew Isaac brings decades of leadership experience in children's social care to this eye-opening discussion about the state of foster care in the UK. As Chair of BSN Social Care and the Children's Services Development Group, Andrew offers rare insights into both the frontline challenges and policy considerations shaping outcomes for vulnerable young people.

The conversation tackles the alarming 30% increase in children entering care across England since 2010, examining how this surge has stretched resources and created unprecedented challenges. Andrew expertly dissects the intersection of funding constraints, outdated legislation, and shifting societal dynamics that complicate effective care delivery. His passion for early intervention shines through as he shares compelling economic data: every pound invested in proper care yields sixteen pounds in lifetime returns, with potential savings of nearly a billion pounds from the justice system alone by reducing the number of care-experienced young people in prison.

Most poignantly, Andrew addresses what he calls "the cliff edge at 18" – the arbitrary point where young people transition overnight from comprehensive support to navigating multiple agencies independently. The statistics are heartbreaking: care leavers are seven times more likely to commit suicide than their peers. Through powerful anecdotes and evidence-based insights, Andrew makes a compelling case for extending meaningful support beyond this artificial boundary.

The discussion also explores the delicate art of foster carer recruitment and retention, highlighting the importance of honest conversations that address concerns while emphasizing the profound difference carers make. Andrew shares touching success stories alongside practical strategies for supporting carers through challenging placements and transitions.

Whether you work in social care, are considering fostering, or simply care about society's most vulnerable members, this conversation offers essential perspective on how we might better support young people to achieve what one expert calls "the great aspiration of children in care" – an ordinary life. Subscribe now to join this important conversation about creating lasting positive change for generations to come.

Andrew’s Bio

Andrew is a highly accomplished leader within heavily regulated healthcare, children’s services and special needs education environments.  

Andrew is the Chair of BSN Social care, the parent company of six of the UK’s leading foster care agencies servicing much of England and Wales.

Andrew is also the Chair of the Children’s Services Development Group (CSDG), a coalition of leading independent providers of care and specialist education services, who work closely with policymakers, regulators and local authorities to develop policy solutions that will ensure the best possible outcomes for children and young people with complex needs. 

Andrew was previously the marketing and communications manager for the National Fostering Agency, which is when we first interacted with each other. I was under the impression that he retired some time ago, but as we will hear that does not appear to be the case.

Disclaimer

Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce.

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Colby Pearce connects with the core technical team of Livramento, a residential care home in Portugal with a remarkable 200-year history of supporting girls and young women from ages 6 to 25.

• Tracing Livramento's journey from a closed orphanage during Napoleonic times to today's therapeutic community
• Exploring how a revolutionary director in the 1970s transformed the institution by focusing on education and personal development
• Developing a comprehensive therapeutic model with consultant Patrick Tomlinson that emphasizes reflective practice
• Creating graduated independence through pre-autonomous living within the home and apartments in the community
• Achieving a 99-100% academic success rate through educational partnerships and scholarship programs
• Working systemically with families to promote healthy relationships and potential reunification
• Building a culture where staff at all levels receive supervision and support to prevent burnout
• Demonstrating how residential care can be the best option for some young people when implemented with therapeutic intention

My guests, and I say guests because there are five of them, are Ivone, Maria, Bruna, Carla, and Liliana, from Lar Nossa Senhora do Livramento.

About Livramento

The Fundação Lar Nossa Senhora do Livramento (FLNSL) is a non-profit Private Social Solidarity Institution (IPSS) that receives female children and young people aged between 6 and 25 years old into its residential care programme. 

The history of Livramento is intertwined with the history of the city of Porto, dating back to the Napoleonic invasions. At that time, a group of citizens organised themselves to protect children and their mothers from abandonment and mistreatment, creating the first shelter in 1810. 

Livramento accommodates female children and young people aged 6 and over who are in a situation of danger or neglect, and whose reception is requested by the competent entities – Family and Juvenile Court or Commission for the Protection of Children and Young People at Risk. The objective of this social response is the protection and rehabilitation of children and young people, aiming at the following possible life projects: family reunification, foster care, adoption or autonomy.
 
Livramento operates 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, ensuring accommodation, food and personal care as well as monitoring and promoting their integral development.

In recent years, the residential shelter has undergone a very significant transformation process, which I am hoping to discuss further in this episode of the podcast.

Welcome Ivone (Psychologist), Maria (Social Worker), Carla (Psychologist), Liliana (Special Education Technician), and Bruna (Psychology Intern).

 Disclaimer

Information reported by guests of this podcast is assumed to be accurate as stated. Podcast owner Colby Pearce is not responsible for any error of facts presented by podcast guests. In addition, unless otherwise specified, opinions expressed by guests of this podcast may not reflect those of the podcast owner, Colby Pearce.

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