I can’t be cool about today’s guest, so I’m not even going to try. Ever since I started The Shift I have had a Wishlist and high up on it from day one was Dame Zandra Rhodes.

Yes, that Zandra Rhodes. There can only be one after all.

For over 50 years, Zandra has been a leading figure in the British fashion industry, renowned for her prints and her use of colour.

Over the years she has dressed everyone from Princesses Diana to Freddie Mercury, Diana Ross and Debbie Harry, and collaborated with everyone from M&S to Ikea. Zandra is nothing if not egalitarian.

Now 83 (and in remission from the terminal cancer she was diagnosed with at the start of covid), she has no plans to stop any time soon, as evidenced by her new book Iconic, My Life in Fashion in 50 Objects, a whistle-stop tour through her incredible life hanging out with ossie clark, lunching with Truman Capote, making a lifelong friend of legendary vogue editor Diana Vreeland.

Which is how I get to be on my way to Bermondsey to hang out at her fabulous flat to talk about her equally fabulous life. I know!

Zandra and I sat down with a cuppa to discuss how a “boring little girl” became synonymous with big, bold, uncompromising style, her lifelong workaholism, living a child-free life, using clothes as armour and the rejection that was the making of her... 

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Iconic: My Life in Fashion in 50 Objects by Zandra Rhodes and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com.

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com

• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You can be swimming along nicely and then all of a sudden everything you thought you had is gone.

That’s what happened to today’s guest, the best-selling Irish novelist, Louise O’Neill. 

She was 38 and had just taken on a big mortgage with her partner of five years when he blindsided her by pulling the plug. In the wake of losing the future she thought she wanted, suddenly everything she’d achieved throughout her career lost its meaning.

Known for her fearless feminist writing, Louise had written six award-winning novels and been compared to Margaret Atwood.

For months she struggled. Then, heartbroken but defiant, she made a decision: she was going to spend the next year saying yes to everything that comes her way - except the one thing society teaches women to say yes to, settling for the first man who shows an interest.

The result is her first memoir, A Bigger Life, about that radical experiment in learning to bet big - on yourself. 

Louise joined me to talk about the Christmas her life descended into chaos and her subsequent midlife dating odyssey. We also discussed the eating disorder that devoured her, why we still ask ‘why didn’t you leave?’, the downside of her crack-on, can do mentality, learning to recognise your own appetites, putting the humanity back into dating, feeling younger at 41 than 31, and why she really really doesn’t want her parents to read her book!

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including A Bigger Life by Louise O'Neill as well as the book that inspired this podcast, ⁠The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too⁠, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and this episode was edited by Kelsey Bennett at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's two and a half years since I first interviewed Miranda July for this podcast and wow, what a change! Her novel All Fours became a must-read, got shortlisted for the Women's Prize and has been optioned for screen - a far cry from the moment she asked me, will you have my back? We did Miranda, we did! Here it is again...

Every so often you get the chance to interview someone whose work has fascinated you for, well, forever. And today is one of those days. 

Miranda July is an artist, performer, film maker and writer who has been doing it her own way since she was in her teens. She has made three films - The Future, Me and You and Everyone We Know and Kajillionaire, held countless exhibitions, written several books and won a bunch of awards. You get the picture.

Now 50, Miranda has turned her attention to midlife with her first novel in a decade. All Fours is a painful, poignant, hilarious and extremely hot exploration of what happens when “a curious, creative, sexually active woman reaches the midpoint of her life, goes off the oestrogen cliff and starts to question her direction?”

It is wholly unlike anything else I’ve read about this life stage. And is sure to change a few games.

Miranda joined me to talk about her own trip off the oestrogen cliff, reimagining relationships as we get older, conscious co-parenting and moving into the house in the backyard. We also discussed the menopause whisper network, outing herself as “no longer young”, getting out of the anxiety cul de sac and why ageing is “unexpectedly wild”.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including All Fours by Miranda July and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com

• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the writer and award-winning poet Rachel Eliza Griffiths.

Eliza is a woman who has been through A LOT in a short space of time. In September 2020, on the day she married her second husband, the globally renowned novelist Salman Rushdie, her best friend of 17 years, her ‘chosen sister’ Kamila Aisha Moon, died. Then, eleven months later, in the midst of her grief, her husband was brutally attacked as he prepared to go on stage to give a talk. For a time his life hung in the balance.

Salman survived, with life-changing injuries, and the dual traumas left Eliza transformed forever.

Now, five years on, Eliza has written her first memoir, The Flower Bearers, in which she revisits those two terrible griefs and the glorious relationships that lay at its foundations. It’s a story of friend love, romantic love and self-love, of trauma and recovery, and it’s a gut punch.

Eliza joined me from her home in Manhattan to talk about her two great loves, Aisha and Salman, and how she found her way through a kaleidoscope of grief. We also discussed the importance of not prioritising romantic love and why everyone needs an inner village of women, being denied access to your intuition, her extensive toolbox of coping mechanisms, learning to swim in her 40s and Tina Turner. 

• The documentary  Eliza refers to in this conversation is KNIFE: The attempted murder of Salman Rushdie, directed by Oscar Winner Alex Gibley and including never before seen footage shot by Rachel Eliza Griffiths. It's released on 2 October.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including The Flower Bearers by Rachel Eliza Griffiths⁠ as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest this week is the actor, playwright, screenwriter, novelist and multi-award winner Dame Meera Syal.

Most of us have those people we grow up alongside and it feels like Meera has always been a fixture in my life, ever since I first saw her in the 80s film, Sammi and Rosie Get Laid. She’s been writing, performing and breaking new ground ever since and now in her early 60s she still is.

In the early 90s she wrote the brilliant film Bhaji on the Beach, co-wrote and starred in the utterly groundbreaking Goodness Gracious Me and gave us the unforgettable character, Ummi, in the Kumars at Number 42. 

She’s hardly been off our screens and stages ever since. She’s also written three novels - including Anita and Me which she turned into films. She’s won Emmys - two I think - been awarded a BAFTA fellowship, a CBE, an MBE and now a damehood.

Now she’s looking back over her life in her first memoir, which I have to say, has the best title ever, Vigilauntie.

Meera joined me to talk about growing up Brown in the 70s and wearing the wobbly crown of the good girl while feeling driven to be a bad one. We discussed the wasted potential of older women, writing to survive, the battle to level the playing field and finding herself in an emergency care crisis in her 50s. Plus being a Triple Bad Bet (Old Female and Brown) and why she’s reclaiming Auntie power. I could go on, but I’ll let her tell you herself. I just know you’re going to love this conversations as much as I did.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including Vigilauntie by Meera Syal, as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Kelsey Bennett at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the fashion designer and entrepreneur turned novelist Tabitha Webb. 

What can I tell you about Tabitha - other than her life makes mine look extremely dull?

She ran away from university, chased a hot surfer to America, was a roller blading extra in the movie Birdcage and got held up at gunpoint.

Then, despairing of finding the bag she wanted, she decided to design her own and a fashion career was born. Tabitha Webb became a go to for celebrities in the noughties. And when I say celebrities I mean the Princess of Wales (then Kate Middleton), not just any old reality TV starr. But fashion is a tough old world and at the end of last year, her label went into liquidation.

But like the heroines of her novels, Tabitha is not easily defeated, and in her late 40s she turned her hand to fiction. She wrote her first romance novel, the Jilly Cooper esque No Regrets in 2020 and has now followed it up with the extremely fun sex-filled romp, Playing The Field.

Tabitha joined me to talk about her blind faith that anything is possible, being an older mum and the menopause puberty collision, and why she can’t stand the way her husband breathes! We also discussed her fantastic mum who ‘doesn’t want an old man breathing down her neck!’, (there’s that breathing again!) being resolutely uncool, how it felt to turn her back on the fashion label she put so much into and the joy of ‘climbing your second mountain.’

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including Playing The Field by Tabitha Webb, as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the Australian writer and thinker, Charlotte Wood.

Charlotte is the celebrated author of seven novels and three books of non-fiction. I first encountered her with her novel, The Natural Way of Things, which won the Stella Prize (the Australian equivalent of the Women’s Prize) in 2016. Then, my favourite, The Weekend, which follows three women in their 70s as they clear the house of their dead friend over the course of a weekend, became an international bestseller. She followed it up with Booker Prize shortlisted Stone Yard Devotional. In short, In her mid-50s her career became rocket fuelled.

But we’re here to talk, amongst other things, about… food. I know right?!

Because Charlotte is not just a critically acclaimed writer, she is also an excellent cook. And in Love And Hunger, she writes about the gift of food, friendship and caring through cooking.

Charlotte joined me from her home in Sydney to talk about our mutual adoration of the Australian novelist Helen Garner, challenging cultural representations of older women, what to do with old friends and getting diagnosed with cancer at the same time as BOTH her sisters. The lure of the stripped back life, why she lives in fear of becoming a boring annoying old person and our mutual loathing of home economics!

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including Love & Hunger by Charlotte Wood, as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Kelsey Bennett at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the award-winning comedian and podcaster Helen Thorn. The co-creator of the comedy duo and hit podcast, Scummy Mummies, Helen travels the UK performing in a gold catsuit. Which might scream confidence to you, but her books tell a different story.

She is also the bestselling author of Get Divorced, Be Happy and How To Face Big Change and Come Back Stronger, which harness her trademark hope, humour and honesty to look at what it takes to go from a broken mess living on booze fags and cream eggs post-divorce to marathon running whizz. Or, as she puts it, 'how to bounce back from life’s shittest moments'!

Helen joined me to mess around, frankly! But when she wasn’t, she told me the crazy, horrifying story of surviving her divorce - and honestly, if you think your ex is a piece of work, you aint seen nothing (and I mean nothing!) yet.

We also discussed the cult of the hopeless man, shaking off the cringe cloak of embarrassment, the joy of growing your own future, learning to celebrate small wins, losing your thirtysomething life blinkers, distinguishing peace from boredom and why peak midlife shit is where the magic happens!

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including ⁠⁠How To Face Big Change and Come Back Stronger by Helen Thorn as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the bestselling novelist Jennie Godfrey. Jennie has experienced the kind of midlife turnaround most of us can only dream of.

She started her career working in HR and rose to the top of her chosen industry working for a large corporation. Life was a whirlwind of high powered meetings, swanky job titles, frocks and heels - and boozing to release the pressure valve. Cue burn out - and drying out!

In her mid 40s, in the midst of what she now knows was perimenopause, Jennie took voluntary redundancy and stepped back from her corporate job. Without a packed diary and a plan for the first time in decades she took a job in her local bookshop and signed up for a creative writing course. 

There she started writing her debut novel, The List of Suspicious Things, loosely inspired by her childhood growing up in West Yorkshire during the reign of the Yorkshire Ripper. It became the subject of a massive publisher auction, went to number one in the Sunday Times Bestseller lists and was the biggest debut of 2024. Now she’s followed it up with The Barbecue at No9, set in the summer of 1985 amidst the biggest music event in history, Live Aid.

Jennie came to my flat to hang out with sausage the cat and talk about what it’s been like living the fairytale publishing dream. But don’t hate her! We also discussed how it felt to lose herself both physically and mentally in her 40s, how she recognises balance when she swings past it, growing up as a ‘glass child’, becoming visible in her 50s and rediscovering her lighthearted teenage self thanks to kitchen discos.

Hear Jennie talking about The List of Suspicious Things to The Shift bookclub.

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including ⁠The Barbecue at No.9 by Jennie Godfrey as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Where do you turn when the identity you’ve clung to for decades slips away? That’s the position today’s guest, Jane Green, found herself in at 55. Her solution? She packed a case and ran away!

Anyone who was a fan of women’s commercial fiction (aka chicklit, ugh) in the 90s and noughties will know Jane’s name. Along with Marian Keyes and Helen Fielding, she ruled the roost. She wrote 21 novels - the first of which, Jemima J, was right up there with Bridget Jones in the states. And for a while, they were piled high in bookshops all over the world. Until they weren’t...

But now her subject is herself and I guarantee her story will make you want to chuck it all in and move to Morocco!

Rewilding is her first memoir and recounts the breakup of her 24 year marriage and what came next. At 55, realising she had vanished inside the trappings of her Instagram-worthy life, Jane left the marital home on the East Coast of America with only a suitcase and went to Marrakech. Once she got over the shock and terror of being alone after bringing up four children, she set about the job of rewilding herself, dropping the armour that had seen her through her adult life and stripping herself back to the original Jane. Several years on Jane is living proof that she wasn’t escaping her life, but reclaiming it.

Jane joined me to talk about the long process of returning to herself from a life she no longer recognised. We also discussed the gift of menopause, the curse of perfection, Why no-one should ever give up financial independence, being a ‘walkaway wife’, learning to recognise red flags, facing the fear, And how to answer the question: how did I get stuck in a life I don’t recognise?

2 more things before we start:

• Firstly, Apologies if the sound is iffy in places. (I mean, it IS iffy!) Jane was sitting outside because of the heat so we were dealing with a lot of erm…external noises!

• Secondly, and if, by the end of this, your heart is beating faster, Jane is hosting a 5 day rewilding retreat in Marrakech in October. Find out more at www.kitabamarrakech.com

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including Rewilding by Jane Green as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

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