Chris Devlin is the founding partner of Pivotal, a talent partner for creative, marketing, and media agencies. With deep insight across both network and independent agencies, Chris helps businesses build teams that move beyond delivery to genuine partnership.

In this episode of The Space Between, Chris joins Debbie Richardson and Seth Hawthorne to explore how agencies can evolve from suppliers to strategic collaborators. With deep insights into why every point of contact must be shaped like a consultation, how AI is reshaping entry-level work and freeing space for deeper client conversations, and why “fractional” talent is redefining flexibility. Chris is calling for agencies to stay curious, get closer to their clients’ long-term vision, and embrace change as the only constant in a competitive, opportunity-rich market. Will you?

Produced by Ben Slater (because he likes to do this stuff when not CTO'ing at MSQ).

Marc Holland is a senior marketing leader with over 20 years’ experience transforming marketing functions into strategic growth engines. He’s held leadership roles with global brands including SharkNinja, O2/Telefónica, and LEGO, driving multi-million-pound revenue growth through data-led, commercially creative strategies. 

Known for building and mentoring high-performance teams, Marc excels at orchestrating complex global initiatives and pioneering innovative go-to-market approaches that set new industry standards. 

Today, he combines his corporate expertise with executive coaching to develop the next generation of marketing leaders capable of navigating complex business landscapes with confidence and vision.

In this episode of The Space Between, we explore what it really takes for agencies to move from supplier to trusted partner.

Marc asks agencies  to challenge the comfort zone;  calling for less cut and paste and more grounded, strategic creativity.  He wants innovation aligned with budgets and built on existing strategy, using a test–learn–iterate approach with minimal risk and maximum potential.

Clients love seeing fresh ideas backed by solid planning and clear routes to board-level approval.

Trust, we hear, comes not from saying yes to everything but from honesty, collaboration and cultural fit. Sometimes, the most powerful move is bringing clients together simply to spark conversation.

The big takeaway: deeper strategic thinking, paired with cultural alignment and empathy, transforms how clients perceive value. 

Learn more and connect with Marc here:

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/marc-holland/

About The Space Between

The Space Between is where honest conversations live - the ones agencies rarely make time for. Hosted by the team at MSQ, it explores the gap between what we say we do and what really drives growth, creativity, and change.

Each episode brings together voices from across the agency world to unpack the space between ideas and action, leadership and reality, data and instinct. No spin, no posturing - just clarity, curiosity, and the occasional uncomfortable truth.

For more on MSQ and the tools helping agencies sell and deliver strategy, visit http://msqindex.com.

The Space Between Episode 1.0 | The Conversations We Don’t Have
“Every agency says they want to be strategic. But most of what shapes an agency never makes it into the meeting minutes.”

In this episode, Debbie Richardson and Seth Hawthorne join Ben Slater to talk about the conversations that happen in the space between - the ones that decide whether an agency grows or stalls. From hidden tensions inside leadership teams to the real meaning of ‘strategy,’ it’s a candid look at the business behind the business.

The Space Between in something quieter and more human than agency posturing. As Deb says, it’s about “the conversations we think we’re having and the conversations we should be having” and “the things that people don’t say.”

About The Space Between
The Space Between is where honest conversations live - the ones agencies rarely make time for. Hosted by the team at MSQ, it explores the gap between what we say we do and what really drives growth, creativity, and change.

Each episode brings together voices from across the agency world to unpack the space between ideas and action, leadership and reality, data and instinct. No spin, no posturing - just clarity, curiosity, and the occasional uncomfortable truth.

For more on MSQ and the tools helping agencies sell and deliver strategy, visit msqindex.com.