The Space Show Presents JATAN MEHTA, Friday, Jan. 2, 2026

Quick Summary:

Our conversation with our guest from India focused heavily on India’s space program, including its current capabilities, future plans, and comparisons with other countries’ space programs, particularly regarding lunar exploration and human spaceflight initiatives. The conversation ended with discussions about potential new content initiatives and program updates, including plans for future space coverage and the need for financial support to maintain operations.

Detailed Summary:

I welcomed Jatan to the meeting and also AJ who would act as co-host for today’s one hour program. We began with casual conversation about travel and the history of Mumbai’s name change from Bombay, which was explained as part of a nationwide effort to revert to indigenous names. Bill joined the call and mentioned not receiving Jatan’s newsletter for a few weeks, which Jatan confirmed was being sent but might be ending up in spam folders. David introduced plans to discuss Jatan’s newsletter and work, as well as questions about the Indian space program.

Jatan Mehta, a space writer and journalist, discussed his work covering moon missions and India’s space activities. He explained the origins and goals of his newsletter Moon Monday, which archives moon mission developments, and his Indian Space newsletter, which provides a holistic view of India’s space activities. Jatan also mentioned his poetry on space exploration, which he recently published to celebrate milestones in his career.

Jatan explained his focus on the Moon rather than Mars, citing existing extensive coverage of Mars and his goal to provide unique value through his independent writing. He discussed his passive approach to educational outreach, including speaking to students across various age groups in India about space exploration. Jatan also shared his experience writing poetry sporadically and expressed his inability to teach poetry due to lack of formal training. David, on behalf of John Jossy who was not with us today, inquired about India’s space program, asking if Jatan believed it would be driven primarily by the private sector or government.

Jatan explained that while the private sector in India’s space industry is growing, ISRO will remain the dominant player for the foreseeable future, similar to NASA’s role in the US space program. He noted that the 2023 National Space Policy emphasizes ISRO’s role in cutting-edge R&D for space exploration, while private players focus on production. Regarding India’s human spaceflight program, Jatan reported that while the original 2025 target was missed, the program is making progress with the LVM3 launch vehicle now human-rated, and three uncrewed tests are planned before human missions begin, with a target launch date of late 2027.

The discussion focused on India’s space program, particularly the Gagan Yan (Sky Craft) program for astronauts, where Jatan explained that the initial capsule will carry two Gaganyatris (sky-farers) for the first few missions, with plans to expand to three astronauts later. Jatan clarified that while Gagan Yan refers to spacecraft, the upcoming space station will be called The Bharatiya Antariksh Station(BAS). When asked about India’s progress compared to China, Jatan acknowledged that China has surpassed both India and the US in recent moon missions, though India’s program remains significant with plans for a space station by 2035.

Jatan mentioned that India’s space program, noting that while India and China were neck and neck in space capabilities in the 1990s and early 2000s, China has since surpassed both India and the US in certain areas due to a larger budget. He explained that India’s space budget of approximately $1.5 billion USD over the past five years is less than a tenth of NASA’s budget, limiting its ability to catch up in all areas. However, Jatan emphasized that India is prioritizing certain key areas, such as the Moon, with plans for a sample return mission in 2028. He also highlighted the importance of political support and policy excitement in driving progress in India’s space program.

India’s space program aims to achieve several key milestones over the next 5-10 years, including the Chandrayaan 4 and 5 missions, collaboration with Japan for a lunar rover, and the development of a human spaceflight program with a space station module by the end of the decade. The country is also working on upgrading its LVM3 rocket to a semi-cryogenic engine and developing the Next Generation Launch Vehicle (NGLV) for heavy-lift capabilities by 2032-2034. Long-term goals include expanding India’s regional NAVIC navigation constellation, conducting a Venus orbiter mission in 2028, and sending an Indian astronaut to the moon by 2040.

The discussion focused on India’s space program and its development of reusable rockets. Jatan explained that while India has received some technology assistance from Russia, it doesn’t have the same level of partnership as China’s with Russia. He noted that India’s current rockets are not designed for reusability, but the upcoming NGLV rocket will have a reusable booster stage. The group discussed India’s decision not to pursue a super-heavy lift rocket, instead opting to develop a heavy upper stage that can be launched multiple times and docked in orbit. Jatan emphasized that while reusable rockets would be beneficial, India’s focus has been on addressing a backlog of existing missions and developing new launch capabilities.

Jatan discussed his top lunar coverage stories from 2025, highlighting three key pieces: covering lunar sample science updates from China’s Chang’e 5 and 6 missions, his year-end summary on Moon Monday that reviewed both successes and failures in lunar exploration, and an analysis piece on the current orbital capabilities of various countries, particularly focusing on the US’s lack of modern lunar orbiters and the importance of understanding lunar water ice for future human missions.

Jatan explained that Indian space mission budgets are allocated on a year-by-year basis, unlike NASA’s multi-year planning, and described how infrastructure costs are incorporated into mission budgets differently between the two countries. He outlined his plans for 2026, including covering moon missions weekly, publishing additional space-related booklets, and tracking developments in India’s Gaganyaan program and semi-cryogenic engine upgrade for LVM3. Jatan emphasized his commitment to keeping his space coverage and publications free to access through sponsorships and expressed excitement about upcoming missions including Chang’e 7 and Intuitive Machines’ third lunar landing mission.

This part of the program primarily focused on a discussion about potentially establishing a “Mars Tuesday” to complement “Moon Monday,” though Jatan noted this would be more feasible in the future, possibly during the Moon-to-Mars transition. Jatan shared his background in astrophysics and his shift to space communication, emphasizing his interest in bridging the gap between researchers and the public. David made announcements about upcoming programs, guest suggestions, and the need for donations to support the space show’s operations, while also inviting major donors to join the advisory board. The conversation ended with plans for Ajay to share updates about his talks in India on the next Sunday’s show.

Special thanks to our sponsors: American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless Entertainment

Our Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time)

For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: [email protected] for instructions and access.

The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use:

To donate with Zelle, use the email address: [email protected].

If you prefer donating with a check, please make the check payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail to:

One Giant Leap Foundation, 11035 Lavender Hill Drive Ste. 160-306 Las Vegas, NV 89135

Upcoming Programs:

Broadcast 4482: Zoom: Open Lines to kick of 2026 | Sunday 04 Jan 2026 1200PM PT

Guests: Dr. David Livingston

Zoom: Open Lines to start the New Year

Special Open Lines as the last Space Show for 2025, 12-30-25

Quick Summary

We explored various rocket systems’ capabilities and development status, including SpaceX’s Starship, Blue Origin’s New Glenn, and NASA’s SLS, while discussing the Artemis missions and Gateway project funding. The program ended with discussions about space infrastructure development, sustainable technology implementation, and the future of space exploration, including private sector initiatives and the potential for dual-use technologies.

Detailed Summary

I discussed my appearance on Tom Olson’s radio show. We then discussed the phenomenon of SpaceX employees potentially leaving to start their own space businesses after the company’s IPO, which John Jossy clarified as similar to the “PayPal mafia” concept. Doug expressed skepticism about Mike Griffin’s plan to meet the 2028 moon timeline using existing architecture, noting that Starship’s development is crucial for Artemis III’s success. The conversation also touched on the U.S.’s withdrawal from the Gateway project as depicted by Tom, with ESA now taking full responsibility for its development. This was later challenged and clarified.

We talked about the status of the Gateway project for the Artemis missions, clarifying that Congress has provided full funding for Gateway despite the President’s budget proposal to end it. They debated the necessity of Gateway and the NRHO orbit, with concerns raised about astronaut safety and the potential to strand individuals on the moon. David shared insights from a recent show featuring Mike Griffin, noting lower-than-expected viewership despite high expectations, perhaps due to the holidays. Later we discussed the success of Blue Origin’s New Glenn launch.

Also discussed were the capabilities and development status of various rocket systems, including SpaceX’s Starship, Blue Origin’s New Glenn, and NASA’s SLS. Doug explained that SpaceX’s Starship version 2 is still in development and its payload capabilities are not yet proven, while Blue Origin recently announced plans to stretch their New Glenn rocket to increase its payload capacity. We touched on SpaceX’s Mars cargo landing plans, with Doug noting that Elon Musk’s target of 10-30 tons for initial cargo landings seems low to reduce the number of refills needed, potentially eliminating the need for propellant depots or tanker flights. Marshall raised questions about the orbital reentry and heat shield capabilities of the Starship, suggesting that SpaceX may not fully understand how to handle the heat shield requirements for both lunar and Martian landings until they attempt a test flight.

Our Wisdom Team discussed SpaceX’s progress with their Starship program, noting that while they have had successful ocean landings, a double catch test is an important benchmark for evaluating shield performance. John Jossy mentioned that Relativity Space, led by Eric Schmidt, plans to launch their Taren R rocket late next year with the goal of building data centers in space. The conversation ended with welcoming two new participants, Benjamin Ayala and Twain Knight, who expressed interest in learning about space and discussed their academic backgrounds in physics and aerospace engineering both were students but as you will hear, fizzled out as being guests on the program.

The group discussed the need for NASA to develop a sustainable infrastructure plan for a permanent presence in space, with Gary Barnhard (he joined us via Zoom) emphasizing the importance of establishing clear driving requirements from a science, systems engineering, and architectural design standpoint. Gary shared an example from the International Space Station’s development to illustrate the impact of controversial requirements, highlighting the need for careful consideration of system capabilities. The discussion concluded with Gary outlining plans for a collaborative design charrette leading up to IAC 2026, which aims to gather insights and explore potential synergies for improving space infrastructure, with a focus on leveraging international partnerships and developing interoperability specifications for power beaming and communication networks.

Gary discussed a novel approach to micro and partial gravity adaptation, emphasizing the importance of implementing technology with real-world applications and tangible data. Doug inquired about the goal of a design charrette, which Gary explained is to articulate driving requirements rather than provide prescriptive architectural recommendations. They discussed the development of SpaceX’s Starship and the potential for propellant depots, with Gary highlighting the need for sustainable infrastructure and the importance of understanding various propulsion solutions. The conversation touched on life support systems for space missions, with Gary emphasizing the need for systems with multiple degrees of failure tolerance and a buffer for self-stabilization.

The discussion continued to focus on the future of space exploration and commercial space activities. Gary emphasized the importance of private sector initiatives and the need for companies to take responsibility and authority in driving progress. He noted that the cost of launching payloads to the moon has decreased significantly, with potential for further reductions. Marshall highlighted SpaceX’s achievements in 2025, including the success of Falcon 9 and Starlink satellites, and predicted that SpaceX could become the leading force in space exploration by 2027. The group discussed the economic implications of these developments and the potential for dual-use technologies that benefit both space and terrestrial applications.

We discussed challenges and progress in space exploration, with Marshall highlighting SpaceX’s successful recovery of its first stage and Blue Origin’s advancements with hydrogen-oxygen upper stages. David expressed concerns about the lack of substantial progress in human spaceflight and space settlement, comparing it to the slow development of nuclear power. John Hunt suggested that developing a continuously inhabited moon base could provide more experience for long-term space living before considering permanent settlement. We emphasized the potential for private enterprise to drive future space missions, citing its willingness to take risks and its ability to operate without government scrutiny. The conversation also touched on the psychological impacts of sending couples and families into space and comparing it to the spirit of early American settlers.

Gary presented an overview of XISP Inc.’s mission development efforts, highlighting their work on space wear technology that combines electro muscular stimulation with kinetic fabrics for exercise in variable gravity environments. He explained that the technology, which can provide equivalent of a 4-hour workout in 20 minutes, is already available commercially and is being tested with a broad demographic group. David expressed interest in featuring Gary in a dedicated Space Show segment and discussed the potential for using similar technology with animals, particularly dogs, for space missions. The group agreed to schedule Gary’s next appearance on the Space Show for February.\ or later, then program concluded its broadcast.

Special thanks to our sponsors:Northrup Grumman, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless Entertainment

Our Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time)

For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: [email protected] for instructions and access.

The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use:

To donate with Zelle, use the email address: [email protected].

If you prefer donating with a check, please make the check payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail to:

One Giant Leap Foundation, 11035 Lavender Hill Drive Ste. 160-306 Las Vegas, NV 89135

Upcoming Programs:

Broadcast 4482: Zoom: Open Lines to kick of 2026 | Sunday 04 Jan 2026 1200PM PT

Guests: Dr. David Livingston

Zoom: Open Lines to start the New Year

The Space Show Presents Tom Olson, Sunday, 12-28-25.

Quick Summary:

Our program focused on reviewing key space industry developments and trends in 2025, with Tom Olson leading a discussion on global launch statistics, commercial space progress, and future outlooks. The group examined SpaceX’s dominance in launches, China’s growing space capabilities, and the status of NASA’s Artemis program, while also discussing emerging technologies like space-based data centers and AI computing. The conversation covered space debris concerns, the potential for nuclear power in space, and the future of human spaceflight, including the upcoming retirement of the ISS in 2030. The participants also touched on the commercialization of space resources, property rights discussions, and the increasing investment in space startups, with particular attention to Starlink’s market expansion and its $80/month pricing in the US market.

Detailed Summary:

Tom and I discussed our plan for this year-end show, covering topics such as global launch, SpaceX Starship, and future policy ideas. Before moving on, I reminded listeners about the upcoming open line discussion on Tuesday, the last program of 2025 for The Space Show, with my making our Zoom program an open invitation program with the requirements of civility, no eating on camera, no name calling, no shouting and talking over people. Otherwise, even if you disagree with what is being said, be civil about it as you let us know your thoughts on the topic.

Tom discussed upcoming events, including Starship’s launch and a trip to India. He also shared details about his radio show and podcast, “The Unknown Quantity,” which focuses on the intersection of space and money. He highlighted the rapid growth of the space industry and his involvement in various events, including a pitch competition for young entrepreneurs and a panel discussion on lunar space economy. Tom expressed enthusiasm for these opportunities to engage with the space community and influence future developments.

Our Wisdom Team brought up property rights in space, particularly regarding the moon, and the potential for helium-3 mining for quantum computing. Tom shared insights from a recent discussion with government officials about lunar economy development. The conversation touched on the Outer Space Treaty’s limitations and the potential for private sector claims. Marshall raised questions about claim jumping and enforcement, while China’s potential role in lunar development and the need for quick U.S. presence to establish dominance was highlighted. This part of our discussion concluded with a brief mention of 3D mapping technology’s potential to resolve border disputes diplomatically.

Tom reported that global launches in 2023 set a record with 328 launches, with the U.S. leading at 198 launches and only 4 failures, followed by China with 91 launches and 3 failures. He noted that SpaceX dominated U.S. launches with 150 flights, while Russia had 17 successful launches. Tom also discussed SpaceX’s progress with Starship, including two successful test flights and plans for six Block 3 launches starting in late January, aiming to reach low Earth orbit and demonstrate refueling. As a group we briefly touched on Blue Origin’s development of the Blue Moon lander and Rocket Lab’s plans to launch from Wallops, with Thomas mentioning that SpaceX has received permission to launch from the Cape, potentially as early as late next year.

Tom and David discussed the regulatory environment for space launches, noting that while intentions are good, legal challenges have slowed progress. They debated the future of NASA’s Artemis program, with Tom suggesting that Artemis III will reach the moon before China but may be unsustainable at its current cost. The conversation also touched on commercial space activities, including Russia’s recent launch facility accident and the status of the Starliner spacecraft after a long-duration mission.

The group discussed the status of the Gateway project, which ESA and the EU have decided to build independently, taking it off NASA’s hands. Tom said that European countries will continue to build components for Gateway, but now ESA will own and operate it. The discussion also touched on the increasing investment in space operations, with our guest mentioning that $3.5 billion in new money had been put into space operations by the end of Q3. Joe noted that Voyager, a space station company, has a European footprint through its partnership with Airbus. The conversation concluded with a brief discussion about space solar power, with Thomas expressing skepticism about its current feasibility due to challenges in power transmission.

The group discussed several space-related topics, including a new startup using near-infrared light for energy transfer and the status of space solar power projects. Tom expressed skepticism about space solar power’s feasibility, while also advocating for thorium reactors as a potential solution. The conversation touched on space debris concerns and the development of Starlink satellites. Tom shared insights on his company Avealto’s plans to address the digital divide by building high-altitude platforms to provide affordable internet access in developing countries.

The group discussed Starlink’s pricing and availability, with David noting its $80/month offer in the US, while Tom mentioned plans for testing in Malaysia by year-end. Joe shared his experience with Starlink, paying $120 monthly for 200 Mbps download speed. The conversation then shifted to astronomy and space science updates, including the discovery of 6,000 extrasolar planets, new analyses of TRAPPIST-1E, and the first images from the Vera Rubin Observatory. Tom and John Jossy discussed upcoming developments in dark energy research and potential discoveries about dark matter. The conversation ended with a discussion about future trends in space exploration, with Tom predicting increased focus on AI and space-based data centers.

The Wisdom Team discussed the feasibility and challenges of AI data centers in space, with Joe presenting an economic analysis suggesting it would cost three times as much as building data centers in Oregon. They explored the technical aspects, including latency concerns and the potential for clusters of satellites in sun-synchronous orbit. The conversation also touched on the future of the ISS, with concerns about maintaining research capabilities after 2030 and the potential for private sector involvement. Tom mentioned his organization, Center for Space Commerce, planning a Space Investment Summit in Turkey next year. John Jossy shared information about Rendezvous Robotics, a company working on space infrastructure, and their partnership with StarCloud for orbital data centers. David noted the absence of discussion on fusion energy, a topic he intended to address.

The group discussed fusion energy, with Thomas expressing skepticism about its timeline and Jossy mentioning Microsoft’s partnership with a fusion startup aiming for data centers by 2028. They also discussed nuclear power plants, including Microsoft’s plans for Three Mile Island and the status of Diablo Canyon in California. Tom announced he would be running a business track and panel at the upcoming ISDC conference in McLean, Virginia. The conversation concluded with a discussion about the rapid development of AI processors and the need for new data center buildings in the coming years.

Special thanks to our sponsors:Northrup Grumman, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless Entertainment

Our Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time)

For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: [email protected] for instructions and access.

The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use:

To donate with Zelle, use the email address: [email protected].

If you prefer donating with a check, please make the check payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail to:

One Giant Leap Foundation, 11035 Lavender Hill Drive Ste. 160-306 Las Vegas, NV 89135

Upcoming Programs:

Broadcast 4480: Zoom Open Lines Discussion For All | Tuesday 30 Dec 2025 700PM PT

Guests: Dr. David Livingston

Zoom: Open Lines. Come One Come All

Broadcast 4481: Zoom from India with JATAN MEHTA | Friday 02 Jan 2026 930AM PT

Guests: Jatan Mehta

Zoom: Happy New Year from India with guest JATAN MEHTA

Broadcast 4482: Zoom: Open Lines to kick of 2026 | Sunday 04 Jan 2026 1200PM PT

Guests: Dr. David Livingston

Zoom: Open Lines to start the New Year

The Space Show Presents Special End of Year Messaging From Space Show Supporters To All, Friday, 12-16-25

Quick Summary:

Our program began with discussions exploring technical and political challenges related to NASA’s Artemis program and the 2028 moon landing timeline, including concerns about safety, funding, and competing lunar missions. The conversation ended with discussions about autonomous systems in space, regulatory requirements for pilots, and the current state of the Space Show’s funding and operations. Space Show participants included myself, Marshall Martin, John Jossy, John Hunt and later we were joined by Phil Swan.

David began by promoting a recent segment highlighting past programs and encouraging donations to support the show during the final days of our 2025 campaign. Marshall shared his long-standing interest in space and support for the Space Show, recalling a childhood fascination with space and his daughter’s involvement in a Loral tour. He talked about his compelling need to continue financially donating to The Space Show and urged other listeners to do the same given the importance of the program and its unique format. Marshall and David then discussed the political aspects of space exploration and the importance of understanding political issues to predict future developments. They talked about Jared Isaacman’s presence at NASA headquarters and the need for quick decisions regarding the 2028 moon landing timeline. John Hunt expressed concerns about the readiness of the Starship lander for the 2028 mission and suggested that an alternative, human-rated lander would be needed. The Wisdom Team also discussed the potential impact of China’s space program on U.S. efforts and the historical context of space race reactions.

Team members discussed concerns about the Artemis program’s timeline and safety, particularly focusing on Mike Griffin’s warning about a 6.5-day wait period before a crew could return from the moon and the potential for crew strandings in crisis situations. They noted that while the 2028 deadline might be unrealistic, Elon Musk’s company could potentially develop a competing lunar mission, though Marshall acknowledged this was currently only a 10% possibility. The discussion concluded with John Jossy suggesting that Artemis III might be delayed until a reliable and safe human landing system is developed, while Marshall emphasized that the lunar mission race includes both Artemis and China’s space program, with funding and technical challenges remaining significant obstacles for both.

The Wisdom Team discussed the challenges of a 2028 moon mission without the Gateway, with David highlighting that Starship would need orbital refueling, a lunar landing system, spacesuits, and an elevator like lander to reach the surface, none of which are currently ready. John Jossy added that Artemis 3 does not plan for a landing pad, and John Hunt suggested that Jared might need to inform the Chief of Staff about the timeline concerns, as President Trump probably wants the mission to happen during his presidency. The discussion concluded with Hunt noting that careerists might be hesitant to speak up due to job security concerns, while Trump might be more willing to take risks.

Together we talked about the challenges and potential timelines for returning to the moon, considering both technical and policy aspects. Marshall suggested that Congress might continue to fund a lunar program even if it faces delays, while David proposed a hypothetical 2029 deadline to potentially allow more time for engineering and safety improvements. The discussion highlighted concerns about technological breakthroughs, funding, and the availability of top talent, with John Hunt emphasizing the need for better program management and funding levels to meet goals.

The Wisdom Team discussed the challenges and timelines for NASA’s Artemis program, particularly focusing on the 2028 deadline for returning to the moon and what it might mean to the administration if that goal is not met. Phil Swan explained his support for the Space Show, emphasizing its focus on scientific depth and honesty in space industry coverage. The panelists then debated whether NASA could meet the 2028 target, with Marshall expressing skepticism about the timeline, while Phil suggested it might be achievable with a more conservative approach using the SLS rocket. The discussion concluded with a hypothetical bet on whether the program would meet the 2028 deadline, with most panelists expressing doubt.

Marshall then presented his paper (see it on our blog at www.thespaceshow.com for this program on this date) on defending Earth and space stations from interstellar objects using large mirrors to either melt or redirect the objects. Phil suggested using a solar power satellite with laser beaming instead, as it could provide better range and dual purpose functionality. Marshall agreed to allow John Jossy to post his paper on the blog for further critique and feedback, as he is still working on it and seeking input from informed individuals. Phil also introduced the Evidence Ledger, an open-source peer review process where concepts and claims are reviewed by experts in the field.

We then talked about both flight and human spaceflight training and regulations, with Marshall sharing his experience of obtaining a pilot’s license in 1973 and David recounting his university flight training back in 67-68. They explored changes to FAA medical certification requirements for pilots, noting that private pilots no longer need a Class 3 medical certificate if their aircraft has a stall speed below 65 knots. The conversation concluded with a discussion about regulatory requirements for human spaceflight crew members, particularly whether they would need pilot licenses for atmospheric portions of their missions. This was answered in emails after the show but the short answer is no but covered in other regulations.

Our Wisdom Team discussed the challenges and readiness of autonomous systems in space versus automotive technology, with David comparing the current state of self-driving cars to potential space systems. Phil and Marshall shared insights about space shuttle launches and Apollo missions, emphasizing the role of human pilots and the importance of thorough testing and quality engineering. The conversation highlighted the balance between perfect systems and acceptable risk levels, with Marshall noting that humans can often handle unexpected situations better than computers. The discussion concluded with Marshall’s observation about the shift in focus from Mars to the moon, suggesting that solving the moon mission might be a more immediate challenge.

Nearing the end of the program, we discussed the challenges and similarities between missions to the Moon and Mars, with Phil arguing that the engineering difficulties are more similar than the distances suggest. David shared updates on the Space Show’s funding status, noting they are currently at 35% of their annual target. David took the opportunity to again ask listeners to support The Space Show with donations prior to the end of the year. Previous donation instructions have been provided so they are not repeated here but if one requests assistance or has questions, they can reach out to David at [email protected].

David and the team discussed betting on the likelihood of Artemis III with the Program of Record making it to the Moon and back within the 2028 timeline. We talked about betting on the Polymarket, the legality facing Americans as its against the law with David wondering how people get around and do it given he hears about it all the time on various podcasts. It was suggested that Polymarket users might be using a VPN to hide their location. David said he would do some research on it for the Tuesday, Dec. 30 program, mainly out of his curiosity. John Jossy inquired about posting Marshall’s papers on space mirrors and space settlements on David’s blog. (Note: There is now a regulated US version of the Polymarket but you have to apply to use it and their may be a waiting list. You can find out more with a Google or AI Search for legal ways for US citizens to engage in the Polymarket).

The Team wished all a Happy New Year and encouraged listeners to support The Space Show during this year’s campaign.

Special thanks to our sponsors:Northrup Grumman, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless Entertainment

Our Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time)

For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: [email protected] for instructions and access.

The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use:

To donate with Zelle, use the email address: [email protected].

If you prefer donating with a check, please make the check payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail to:

One Giant Leap Foundation, 11035 Lavender Hill Drive Ste. 160-306 Las Vegas, NV 89135

Upcoming Programs:

Broadcast 4478: Zoom: TOM OLSON | Sunday 28 Dec 2025 1200PM PT

Guests: Thomas A. Olson

Note: A PDF of his House testimony including factual and quantitative analysis is available on line & at www.thespaceshow.com for the Dec. 21, 2025 Space Show program with Mike. He testified before the House on Dec. 4, 2025.

The Space Show Presents Dr. Mike Griffin, Tuesday, Dec. 23, 2025

Quick Summary:

Our program with guest Dr. Mike Griffin primarily focused on discussing NASA’s current lunar exploration program and its challenges, with extensive testimony from Mike about the technical limitations and risks of the Artemis III plan. The participants explored alternative architectures and technical solutions, including the need for orbital flight tests and cryogenic propellant management capabilities. The discussion concluded with concerns about the program’s timeline and infrastructure limitations, while emphasizing the importance of U.S. leadership in space exploration and the need for more diverse expert participation in future discussions.

David and Mike discussed the challenges and concerns surrounding NASA’s current approach to returning to the moon, with Mike emphasizing that the existing plans with SpaceX and Blue Origin are unlikely to succeed. They highlighted the need for a different launch system and expressed frustration over the perceived mismanagement of the mission timeline. The conversation also touched on the potential for additional space vehicles to support lunar missions, though Mike noted that the current architecture does not require them. David introduced the evening’s program and mentioned that Mike’s testimony would be a key focus, setting the stage for a detailed discussion on the future of lunar exploration.

Dr. Griffin testified before Congress about China’s moon program and the United States’ response, emphasizing that China is actively developing lunar capabilities while the U.S. lacks a coherent strategy at a special House committee meeting on Dec. 4, 2025. He criticized the Artemis III plan, arguing it cannot succeed due to technical challenges with cryogenic propellant storage and the near rectilinear halo orbit design, which leaves crews stranded for extended periods. Dr. Griffin proposed an alternative dual-launch architecture using the SLS, similar to China’s approach, but acknowledged that the U.S. needs more heavy lift capacity.

Mike explained that switching the program of record to a new architecture would require a significant commitment and involve multiple steps, including the new NASA administrator investigating the controversy, the president approving a change, and Congress appropriating funds. He emphasized that the current Artemis program architecture will not work and offered an alternative solution, while noting that other approaches could also succeed. I inquired about the process to switch the program of record, and our guest outlined the steps that would need to be taken, including potential sole source assignments to contractors.

Our Space Show Wisdom Team discussed the technical challenges and feasibility of NASA’s lunar mission concept, focusing on the difficulties of cryogenic propellant management and boil-off control in the lunar environment. Mike emphasized that the mission’s current design lacks necessary expertise and experience, particularly in maintaining cryogenic temperatures for extended periods, and expressed concerns about the potential risks to crew safety. The participants agreed that the concept, as currently proposed, is unlikely to succeed within a reasonable timeframe. Marshall highlighted the specific challenge of managing heat on the sunlit lunar surface. I inquired about SpaceX’s perspective regarding the challenges and risks, but Mike clarified that he could not speak for SpaceX engineers and emphasized that no amount of engineering brilliance can rescue a fundamentally flawed concept.

We continued discussing concerns about the U.S. lunar exploration program and its competitiveness with China. Mike expressed frustration that the current architecture lacks sufficient delta-V and a credible lunar lander, while Ajay raised questions about the feasibility of multiple refueling missions. The discussion highlighted tensions between using cryogenic versus storable liquid propulsion systems, with Griffin advocating for storable liquids for the first crewed mission due to infrastructure limitations on the moon. The conversation concluded with his emphasizing the importance of U.S. leadership in space exploration and his preference for a simpler, safer approach to lunar missions.

Mike and Ajay discussed the challenges of refueling in space, particularly for cryogenic liquids, and the risks associated with multiple launches. They expressed skepticism about the Blue Origin architecture and the feasibility of the NRHO concept due to technical limitations and the lack of demonstrated technology. Mike emphasized that if a mission failed, the fleet would likely be grounded until the problem is understood and solved, similar to historical practices in air and spaceflight. David asked about a potential point of no return for a new mission design, but Mike suggested there isn’t a definitive point where re-engagement would be impossible. He expressed concern about the U.S. not being actively involved in lunar exploration, noting that China’s success is not guaranteed lunar success either.

Mike further emphasized the necessity of conducting an orbital flight test to demonstrate cryogenic propellant transfer and boil-off prevention before committing to a mission that involves significant national investment. He highlighted the importance of seeing such a test to validate the technology, as calculations alone would not be sufficient. Phil noted the success of the space shuttle’s test flight and asked if thorough analysis and ground tests could convince Mike to which Mike responded that the shuttle’s testing was significantly more extensive than what had been proposed for Artemis. Marshall suggested building a high-quality space station as a more efficient use of national resources than a moon mission, but our guest argued that space stations should serve mission needs and not be the initial focus. John proposed the idea of constructing a propellant depot with refrigeration capabilities to support future lunar missions, which Griffin supported as a viable option for refueling architecture.

Our guest discussed the technical limitations of NASA’s current approach to lunar missions, emphasizing that the proposed method of refueling in Earth orbit before heading to the moon is not feasible due to the lack of cryogenic fluid management capabilities. He compared this to a hypothetical cross-country flight that requires frequent refueling, highlighting the impracticality of the current plan. Mike expressed concern that the project may eventually stall due to technological constraints, noting that previous attempts to address similar issues in NASA’s history faced significant political and public backlash. He also acknowledged the challenges faced by Jared Isaacman, the new NASA administrator, in making major changes to the current plan, but declined to offer specific advice on how to navigate these challenges.

We also focused on NASA’s responsibility for selecting the right approach to return to the moon, with Mike emphasizing that technical decisions should not be made through public votes. David expressed appreciation for Mike’s insights and mentioned plans to share the discussion on Space Show global media accounts. The conversation ended with a reminder about supporting the Space Show through various payment methods, including PayPal, Zelle, and checks, with details provided for each option.

Our Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time)

For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: [email protected] for instructions and access.

The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use:

To donate with Zelle, use the email address: [email protected].

If you prefer donating with a check, please make the check payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail to:

One Giant Leap Foundation, 11035 Lavender Hill Drive Ste. 160-306 Las Vegas, NV 89135

Upcoming Programs:

Broadcast 4477 Zoom: Special Space Show Msg Program | Friday 26 Dec 2025 930AM PT

Guests: Dr. David Livingston

ZOOM: To Be Determined

Broadcast 4478: Zoom: TOM OLSON | Sunday 28 Dec 2025 1200PM PT

Guests: Thomas A. Olson

Zoom: Tom returns for his annual year in review program. Always exciting and fun. Don’t miss it.

The Space Show Presents Michael Listner, Sunday , 12-21-25

Quick Summary

Our program focused on analyzing the newly released Trump Space Policy Executive Order and its implications for NASA’s moon return mission by 2028, with discussions around commercial space initiatives, infrastructure challenges, and geopolitical considerations. The Wisdom Team explored NASA’s current plans, leadership changes, and the evolving role of private investment in space exploration, while examining international reactions and regulatory challenges. The conversation concluded with discussions about space governance, technological advancements, and future policy directions, including the potential for reduced launch costs and the importance of spectrum management in space policy.

Summary

The Wisdom Team discussed the newly released Trump Space Policy Executive Order, which Michael noted pushes for commercial space initiatives rather than the expensive rocket version, aiming for a moon return by 2028. David expressed skepticism about meeting this timeline without radical program changes, and mentioned Dr. Mike Griffin’s upcoming appearance to share his perspective. David and Michael discussed the newly released executive order on space policy, which aims to return humans to the moon by 2028. Michael explained that the order emphasizes a sustainable and cost-effective lunar presence, including greater commercial space involvement. He noted that while the order is significant, its reception and implementation may face challenges, particularly due to potential conflicts with previous legislation. David raised concerns about the feasibility of the 2028 timeline, citing skepticism about current infrastructure and project delays. Michael acknowledged these concerns but suggested that the administration’s focus on achieving this goal before the end of the president’s term could drive progress.

We continued talking about NASA’s plans to return to the moon, with Michael emphasizing that the Space Launch System (SLS) is currently the only viable option for achieving this goal within a reasonable timeframe, despite its limitations and high costs. The group discussed the potential influence of lobbying by contractors with stakes in SLS, as well as the geopolitical considerations of competing with China’s lunar ambitions. John Jossy mentioned the recent executive order requiring NASA to review major space acquisition programs, potentially opening the door to cuts or cancellations, though Michael suggested that SLS would likely continue until at least Artemis 3 or 4 due to political realities and geopolitical interests.

Our Wisdom Team discussed the implications of recent changes in NASA leadership and broader space policy, with Michael sharing insights about the challenges faced by former NASA administrator Jim Bridenstine and others. They explored the future of space exploration, with Michael predicting that private investment would become more important than government funding over the next 10-15 years, leading to the formation of large space-focused conglomerates. The discussion concluded with an analysis of international reactions to U.S. commercial space initiatives, noting that many countries, particularly Russia and the European Union, are resistant to the commercialization of space and have implemented restrictive regulations to limit private sector involvement.

Next, we focused on the shift towards national sovereignty in space governance, highlighted by recent conferences on regulating lunar activities and space resources. Michael noted that while the U.S. participated in these conferences, it aimed to influence rule-making rather than comply fully. Marshall brought up Elon Musk’s plans for AI data centers in space, including a potential IPO and a Pentagon proposal for a $4 billion AI center. Michael clarified that regulatory hurdles, rather than legal ones, would be the main challenge for such initiatives, while also cautioning about the potential for overhyped expectations similar to those seen with space resource laws. David inquired about efforts to extend environmental protection laws to space, to which Michael responded that while such attempts occur, they often lack specific legislative backing and have faced setbacks in recent court decisions.

The Wisdom Team discussed tax incentives for space investment, with Michael noting that Florida had considered such measures and federal proposals existed previously. Marshall raised concerns about SpaceX’s potential market dominance following its IPO, which Michael addressed by explaining that antitrust considerations would require government approval for monopolistic behavior, though he noted SpaceX’s competition with other launch companies. Michael predicted that 2025 would be a transition year for space policy, moving commercial space to a higher priority, and anticipated continued steady progress in 2026, with over 100 launches expected from Cape Canaveral and Vandenberg that year. John Jossy mentioned the upcoming 60-day timeline for issuing guidance on American space nuclear power initiatives.

Michael discussed the challenges of developing nuclear propulsion systems, citing the example of DARPA’s project being abandoned. He explained that the new nuclear power directive from the administration aims to move initiatives forward, with multiple agencies involved in authorization processes. David raised concerns about Congress potentially being a stumbling block to space exploration efforts, given its current focus and past legislative conflicts. Michael noted the ongoing competition between NASA authorization acts and the CHIPS Act, suggesting that the White House might find a way to align these directives.

Michael went on to explain that space settlement lacks regulatory infrastructure and requires a national space policy prioritizing it, which currently does not exist. He noted that the FAA’s 2015 Commercial Space Launch Act was not fully implemented, particularly regarding space resources, and highlighted the need for Congress to provide clear authorization for such activities. Marshall raised a question about the relationship between SpaceX’s Starlink revenue and NASA’s budget, to which Michael responded that this shift aligns with Reagan’s vision for commercial space, emphasizing private innovation surpassing government capabilities.

Nearing the end of our program, we focused on the current state and future of national space policy, commercial space initiatives, and technological advancements. Michael noted that the Trump administration’s first-term national space policy remains in effect. The Biden administration did not replace it. The Trump pro-commercial space stance continues to influence the industry. The team discussed the potential for reduced launch costs due to increased competition, with Rocket Lab’s success highlighted as a significant player in the market. They also explored the implications of the Golden Dome initiative, emphasizing its potential geopolitical and defense implications, as well as the challenges it may face in the future. The conversation concluded with an examination of upcoming technologies, such as SpaceX’s Starlink and its potential impact on global communication, and the importance of spectrum management in space policy.

Special thanks to our sponsors:Northrup Grumman, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless Entertainment

Our Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time)

For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: [email protected] for instructions and access.

The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use:

To donate with Zelle, use the email address: [email protected].

If you prefer donating with a check, please make the check payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail to:

One Giant Leap Foundation, 11035 Lavender Hill Drive Ste. 160-306 Las Vegas, NV 89135

Upcoming Programs:

Broadcast 4477 Zoom: To Be Determined | Friday 26 Dec 2025 930AM PT

Guests: Dr. David Livingston

ZOOM: To Be Determined

Broadcast 4478: Zoom: TOM OLSON | Sunday 28 Dec 2025 1200PM PT

Guests: Thomas A. Olson

Zoom: Tom returns for his annual year in review program. Always exciting and fun. Don’t miss it.

Hotel Mars with John Batchelor for Thursday, Dec. 18, 2025 featuring from India, Dr. Sabayashi Pal.

John Batchelor and I introduced The Hotel Mars audience to DR. SABAYASHI PAL regarding his discovery of giant radio galaxies and supermassive black holes. Dr. Pal reported that astronomers have discovered 53 giant radio galaxies, some 75 times larger than the Milky Way, powered by active supermassive black holes emitting radio jets. These ancient objects offer insights into galactic evolution, contrasting sharply with the Milky Way’s smaller, dormant black hole in the center of our galaxy that allows life to exist safely.

In Part Two of our Hotel Mars discussion with Dr. Pal, he said that with an unlimited budget, he would use it for investing in human intelligence over that of any AI. Dr. Pal prefers to prioritize human resource development over new telescopes, proposing a space study institute in Africa to train experts. He said that while AI is a useful tool, a quality science education is essential for humans to interpret data and appreciate the machinery rather than being replaced by it. Dr. Pal strongly believes that human intelligence is a far more valuable resource than artificial intelligence, even for the future.

Special thanks to our sponsors:Northrup Grumman, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless Entertainment

Our Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time)

For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: [email protected] for instructions and access.

The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use:

To donate with Zelle, use the email address: [email protected].

If you prefer donating with a check, please make the check payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail to:

One Giant Leap Foundation, 11035 Lavender Hill Drive Ste. 160-306 Las Vegas, NV 89135

Upcoming Programs:

Broadcast 4476 Zoom Dr. MIKE GRIFFIN | Tuesday 23 Dec 2025 700PM PT

Guests: Dr. Michael D. Griffin

Zoom: Dr. Griffin discusses how best to promptly get to the Moon and more.

Broadcast 4477 Zoom: To Be Determined | Friday 26 Dec 2025 930AM PT

Guests: Dr. David Livingston

ZOOM: To Be Determined

Broadcast 4478: Zoom: TOM OLSON | Sunday 28 Dec 2025 1200PM PT

Guests: Thomas A. Olson

Zoom: Tom returns for his annual year in review program. Always exciting and fun. Don’t miss it.

Welcome to this special fundraising program featuring several long time Space Show listeners and supporters. Each one of them has a short message for you about why space is so important, why The Space Show is so important, and why they support and continue to support The Space Show. Each one also asks you, yes you the listener, to also join in and support space and The Space Show during The Space Show’s annual fundraising 2025 drive. We want everyone to understand the importance of space to ur future and the role The Space Show has played and will continue playing in bringing this space future to reality.

The Space Supporters wanting to give you their direct message for this 2025 campaign include Dr. Sherry Bell, John Jossy, Bill Gowan, Dr. Haym Benaroya, Peter Foreman, Bob Zimmerman, John Hunt and Dr. A.J. Kothari.

The Space Show is a 501C3 nonprofit with the One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. If you are a US taxpayer, your gift may be tax deductible but please check with your own tax advisor on this matter. The easiest way to support The Space Show is to visit our home page, www.thespaceshow.com on the right side of the page. Look for the large PayPal button. You can use PayPal for your contribution and Zelle if you use a U.S. Bank. If you do use Zelle, our special email address is [email protected]. If you want to make a check to us, please make it payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail it to the Las Vegas, NV address on the PayPal button. Should you have any questions, please feel free to email me at [email protected].

Special thanks to our sponsors:Northrup Grumman, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless Entertainment

Our Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time)

For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: [email protected] for instructions and access.

The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use:

To donate with Zelle, use the email address: [email protected].

If you prefer donating with a check, please make the check payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail to:

One Giant Leap Foundation, 11035 Lavender Hill Drive Ste. 160-306 Las Vegas, NV 89135

Upcoming Programs:

Broadcast 4476 Zoom Dr. MIKE GRIFFIN | Tuesday 23 Dec 2025 700PM PT

Guests: Dr. Michael D. Griffin

Zoom: Dr. Griffin discusses how best to promptly get to the Moon and more.

Broadcast 4477 Zoom: DR. ANTONIO DEL POPOLO | Friday 26 Dec 2025 930AM PT

Guests: Dr/. Antonio Del Popolo

ZOOM: Dr. Popolo from Italy will use slides in our discussion regarding his new book, “Extraterrestrial Life: We Are Not Alone.”

Broadcast 4478: Zoom: TOM OLSON | Sunday 28 Dec 2025 1200PM PT

Guests: Thomas A. Olson

Zoom: Tom returns for his annual year in review program. Always exciting and fun. Don’t miss it.

The Space Show Presents Isaac Arthur, Sunday, 12-14-25

Quick Summary

Our program began with a discussion about space exploration projects and the evolution of telecommunications, followed by a conversation about AI’s impact on education and society. The Wisdom Team then explored various space-related topics including lunar missions, space habitats, and the importance of public-private partnerships in funding exploration efforts. The discussion concluded with Isaac, as president of the National Space Society, emphasizing the organization’s mission and encouraging listener participation in space exploration initiatives.

Detailed Summary

Isaac and I started the conversation talking about space exploration, with Isaac expressing caution about discussing specific details of NASA’s Artemis program due to its frequent changes. David emphasized the need to balance discussion of Artemis with other space-related topics to avoid overwhelming our conversations as Artemis is a hot topic at this time. We began talking about space exploration projects, including Mars missions and space elevators, with Isaac expressing skepticism about fusion technology progress. I then introduced the program schedule, noting upcoming guest appearances and the annual fundraising campaign. Isaac, as the president of the National Space Society, started the space discussion which over time covered various space-related topics and the importance of listener end of the year support for The Space Show given we are 100% listener/participant financed.

David and Isaac discussed the impact of AI on education and society. Isaac emphasized that AI should be viewed as a tool to augment human creativity and learning, rather than a replacement for critical thinking. He suggested that professors adapt their teaching methods to account for AI’s presence, such as conducting in-person exams. David shared his experience using AI for medical information, which led to complaints from doctors. Isaac advised that while AI can be a useful diagnostic tool, it should not replace professional medical advice. Both agreed that critical thinking and understanding the limitations of AI are essential skills in the modern world.

Isaac went on to discuss the current state and future of space exploration, emphasizing the significant progress made in the last decade and expressing optimism about returning to the moon, whether through Artemis or private sector initiatives. He noted that while commercial involvement in space has increased, NASA remains crucial for fundamental research and large-scale projects without a clear profit motive. Isaac also highlighted the importance of learning from past missions and the need for careful planning, suggesting that while Mars missions could be feasible in the near future, they should not be rushed.

Our Wisdom Team along with Isaac discussed space exploration plans and competition with China. Isaac emphasized the importance of making detailed plans for space missions, including a permanent moon base with features like a nuclear reactor and the ability to rescue astronauts. He downplayed concerns about China’s space program, noting that competition can drive progress. The discussion also covered the size and staffing requirements for a moon base, with Marshall and Isaac agreeing that it should be larger than the ISS and have a higher ratio of robots to humans due to communication delays. This part of the conversation concluded with Bill asking Isaac about his views on the future direction of NASA, given the potential confirmation of Isaacman as administrator.

Isaac suggested that NASA should focus on the moon mission as its primary goal, requiring strong leadership and centralization to motivate and align companies involved. He emphasized the need for NASA to shift its focus towards commercial development and experimentation, potentially separating it from military space operations. John Hunt proposed that China’s potential moon landing before the U.S. could actually benefit the U.S. space program by creating a sense of competition and urgency, though Isaac noted the risks of complacency and the importance of maintaining a strong commitment to space exploration.

Isaac and David discussed the potential for public-private partnerships to fund lunar exploration and the challenges of predicting commercial opportunities in space. They explored various options for lunar and space-based activities, including manufacturing, resource utilization, and energy production. Isaac emphasized the importance of real-world testing and innovation in low gravity, while David raised concerns about the energy requirements for AI and data centers, suggesting that space-based data centers could offer regulatory advantages. Both agreed on the need for diverse energy sources and technological advancement to address global energy shortages.

The Wisdom Team discussed energy solutions, with Dr. Kothari and Isaac agreeing that molten salt reactors using thorium could provide a safe and scalable solution for both civilization’s energy needs and data center requirements. Isaac emphasized the importance of increasing energy generation capacity across multiple technologies rather than focusing on efficiency alone, while David raised concerns about the difficulty of getting broad support for these solutions from policymakers. The discussion concluded with Isaac noting that while government agencies like NASA struggle with public relations, private space companies have shown more success in marketing space initiatives to the public and policymakers.

The team next discussed strategies for promoting space and nuclear initiatives to policymakers, with Isaac highlighting the importance of personal engagement and storytelling to generate enthusiasm. Dr. Kothari proposed collaboration between NSS and TSS to present a unified pitch for space and nuclear programs to key figures like J.D. Vance’s Chief of Staff. Isaac shared insights on the economic and strategic benefits of space exploration, emphasizing the need for realistic messaging to avoid a space bubble. The conversation concluded with a discussion on the potential impact of SpaceX’s IPO on the U.S. economy, with Isaac suggesting it could stabilize after an initial fluctuation.

Isaac and Marshall discussed the economic potential of SpaceX’s Starlink, with Marshall highlighting its rapid revenue growth and potential impact on global telecommunications. They explored the challenges and opportunities of space settlement, with Isaac emphasizing the importance of creating space habitats for long-term human presence, while acknowledging the need for gravity and the potential for new ecosystems in space. Before ending, David inquired about the feasibility of space settlement and the necessity of knowing the gravity RX for children, to which Isaac responded that while humans currently require gravity, future solutions like cybernetic organisms or genetic modifications could provide alternatives.

Isaac discussed the feasibility of space habitats, noting that while O’Neill cylinders might not be built this century, smaller habitats like Calpana could be more realistic. He expressed skepticism about Musk’s plan for a Mars city by mid-century, questioning the need for biological self-sustaining settlements and emphasizing the importance of medical intervention for gravity-related issues. Isaac also highlighted the potential challenges of raising children in space and suggested that space habitats would likely start with small, specialized populations rather than large, self-sustaining cities.

Isaac and Dr. Ajay discussed the feasibility of building a smaller lunar lander within 3-5 years, with Isaac expressing skepticism about meeting such a tight timeline due to the complexity and risks involved in space missions. They also debated the merits of building a lunar lander versus a space station, with Isaac advocating for a more robust approach that includes both options. David raised concerns about potential regulatory and economic challenges that could hinder space exploration efforts in the coming years.

Isaac discussed the importance of space regulations, emphasizing the need to balance economic development with safety and environmental concerns. He highlighted potential issues with space advertising and the need for international cooperation in regulating space activities. The conversation also touched on nuclear waste management, with Isaac suggesting recycling radioactive materials and disposing of them in deep oceanic trenches as safer alternatives to space disposal.

Isaac, the president of the National Space Society, discussed the organization’s mission and encouraged listeners to join, emphasizing its inclusive nature and the opportunity to contribute to space exploration efforts. He reflected on the journey of space exploration, highlighting the importance of enjoying the process rather than solely focusing on destinations. Isaac also mentioned upcoming events, including the ISDC conference in McLean, Virginia, and discussed plans for future roadmaps and white papers on space-related topics.

Special thanks to our sponsors:Northrup Grumman, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless Entertainment

Our Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time)

For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: [email protected] for instructions and access.

The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use:

To donate with Zelle, use the email address: [email protected].

If you prefer donating with a check, please make the check payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail to:

One Giant Leap Foundation, 11035 Lavender Hill Drive Ste. 160-306 Las Vegas, NV 89135

Upcoming Programs:

Tuesday, Dec. 16, 2025 No program today | Tuesday 16 Dec 2025 700PM PT

Guests: Dr. David Livingston

Tuesday, Dec. 16: No Program today. We are still in our campaign for 2026 funding. Please support us. See PayPal to the right side of our home page.

Broadcast 4474: Hotel Mars with Dr. Sabyasachi Pal | Thursday 18 Dec 2025 930AM PT

Guests: John Batchelor, Dr. David Livingston, Dr. Sabyasachi Pal

Hotel Mars with Dr. Sabyasachi Pal re Giant Radio Quasars and his 53 black hole research pape

Friday, Dec. 19, 2025 No program today. Please support The Space Show/. See the PayPal button on the right side of our home page. | Friday 19 Dec 2025 930AM PT

Guests: Dr. David Livingston

No program today due to medical. Support The Space Show by using our PayPal button on the right side of our home page.

Broadcast 4475 ZOOM Michael Listner, Atty. | Sunday 21 Dec 2025 1200PM PT

Guests: Michael Listner

ZOOM: Michael Listner, space atty breaks down legal, policy and more for 2025 space

The Space Show Presents Isaac Arthur, Sunday, 12-14-25

Quick Summary

Our program began with a discussion about space exploration projects and the evolution of telecommunications, followed by a conversation about AI’s impact on education and society. The Wisdom Team then explored various space-related topics including lunar missions, space habitats, and the importance of public-private partnerships in funding exploration efforts. The discussion concluded with Isaac, as president of the National Space Society, emphasizing the organization’s mission and encouraging listener participation in space exploration initiatives.

Detailed Summary

Isaac and I started the conversation talking about space exploration, with Isaac expressing caution about discussing specific details of NASA’s Artemis program due to its frequent changes. David emphasized the need to balance discussion of Artemis with other space-related topics to avoid overwhelming our conversations as Artemis is a hot topic at this time. We began talking about space exploration projects, including Mars missions and space elevators, with Isaac expressing skepticism about fusion technology progress. I then introduced the program schedule, noting upcoming guest appearances and the annual fundraising campaign. Isaac, as the president of the National Space Society, started the space discussion which over time covered various space-related topics and the importance of listener end of the year support for The Space Show given we are 100% listener/participant financed.

David and Isaac discussed the impact of AI on education and society. Isaac emphasized that AI should be viewed as a tool to augment human creativity and learning, rather than a replacement for critical thinking. He suggested that professors adapt their teaching methods to account for AI’s presence, such as conducting in-person exams. David shared his experience using AI for medical information, which led to complaints from doctors. Isaac advised that while AI can be a useful diagnostic tool, it should not replace professional medical advice. Both agreed that critical thinking and understanding the limitations of AI are essential skills in the modern world.

Isaac went on to discuss the current state and future of space exploration, emphasizing the significant progress made in the last decade and expressing optimism about returning to the moon, whether through Artemis or private sector initiatives. He noted that while commercial involvement in space has increased, NASA remains crucial for fundamental research and large-scale projects without a clear profit motive. Isaac also highlighted the importance of learning from past missions and the need for careful planning, suggesting that while Mars missions could be feasible in the near future, they should not be rushed.

Our Wisdom Team along with Isaac discussed space exploration plans and competition with China. Isaac emphasized the importance of making detailed plans for space missions, including a permanent moon base with features like a nuclear reactor and the ability to rescue astronauts. He downplayed concerns about China’s space program, noting that competition can drive progress. The discussion also covered the size and staffing requirements for a moon base, with Marshall and Isaac agreeing that it should be larger than the ISS and have a higher ratio of robots to humans due to communication delays. This part of the conversation concluded with Bill asking Isaac about his views on the future direction of NASA, given the potential confirmation of Isaacman as administrator.

Isaac suggested that NASA should focus on the moon mission as its primary goal, requiring strong leadership and centralization to motivate and align companies involved. He emphasized the need for NASA to shift its focus towards commercial development and experimentation, potentially separating it from military space operations. John Hunt proposed that China’s potential moon landing before the U.S. could actually benefit the U.S. space program by creating a sense of competition and urgency, though Isaac noted the risks of complacency and the importance of maintaining a strong commitment to space exploration.

Isaac and David discussed the potential for public-private partnerships to fund lunar exploration and the challenges of predicting commercial opportunities in space. They explored various options for lunar and space-based activities, including manufacturing, resource utilization, and energy production. Isaac emphasized the importance of real-world testing and innovation in low gravity, while David raised concerns about the energy requirements for AI and data centers, suggesting that space-based data centers could offer regulatory advantages. Both agreed on the need for diverse energy sources and technological advancement to address global energy shortages.

The Wisdom Team discussed energy solutions, with Dr. Kothari and Isaac agreeing that molten salt reactors using thorium could provide a safe and scalable solution for both civilization’s energy needs and data center requirements. Isaac emphasized the importance of increasing energy generation capacity across multiple technologies rather than focusing on efficiency alone, while David raised concerns about the difficulty of getting broad support for these solutions from policymakers. The discussion concluded with Isaac noting that while government agencies like NASA struggle with public relations, private space companies have shown more success in marketing space initiatives to the public and policymakers.

The team next discussed strategies for promoting space and nuclear initiatives to policymakers, with Isaac highlighting the importance of personal engagement and storytelling to generate enthusiasm. Dr. Kothari proposed collaboration between NSS and TSS to present a unified pitch for space and nuclear programs to key figures like J.D. Vance’s Chief of Staff. Isaac shared insights on the economic and strategic benefits of space exploration, emphasizing the need for realistic messaging to avoid a space bubble. The conversation concluded with a discussion on the potential impact of SpaceX’s IPO on the U.S. economy, with Isaac suggesting it could stabilize after an initial fluctuation.

Isaac and Marshall discussed the economic potential of SpaceX’s Starlink, with Marshall highlighting its rapid revenue growth and potential impact on global telecommunications. They explored the challenges and opportunities of space settlement, with Isaac emphasizing the importance of creating space habitats for long-term human presence, while acknowledging the need for gravity and the potential for new ecosystems in space. Before ending, David inquired about the feasibility of space settlement and the necessity of knowing the gravity RX for children, to which Isaac responded that while humans currently require gravity, future solutions like cybernetic organisms or genetic modifications could provide alternatives.

Isaac discussed the feasibility of space habitats, noting that while O’Neill cylinders might not be built this century, smaller habitats like Calpana could be more realistic. He expressed skepticism about Musk’s plan for a Mars city by mid-century, questioning the need for biological self-sustaining settlements and emphasizing the importance of medical intervention for gravity-related issues. Isaac also highlighted the potential challenges of raising children in space and suggested that space habitats would likely start with small, specialized populations rather than large, self-sustaining cities.

Isaac and Dr. Ajay discussed the feasibility of building a smaller lunar lander within 3-5 years, with Isaac expressing skepticism about meeting such a tight timeline due to the complexity and risks involved in space missions. They also debated the merits of building a lunar lander versus a space station, with Isaac advocating for a more robust approach that includes both options. David raised concerns about potential regulatory and economic challenges that could hinder space exploration efforts in the coming years.

Isaac discussed the importance of space regulations, emphasizing the need to balance economic development with safety and environmental concerns. He highlighted potential issues with space advertising and the need for international cooperation in regulating space activities. The conversation also touched on nuclear waste management, with Isaac suggesting recycling radioactive materials and disposing of them in deep oceanic trenches as safer alternatives to space disposal.

Isaac, the president of the National Space Society, discussed the organization’s mission and encouraged listeners to join, emphasizing its inclusive nature and the opportunity to contribute to space exploration efforts. He reflected on the journey of space exploration, highlighting the importance of enjoying the process rather than solely focusing on destinations. Isaac also mentioned upcoming events, including the ISDC conference in McLean, Virginia, and discussed plans for future roadmaps and white papers on space-related topics.

Special thanks to our sponsors:Northrup Grumman, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless Entertainment

Our Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time)

For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: [email protected] for instructions and access.

The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use:

To donate with Zelle, use the email address: [email protected].

If you prefer donating with a check, please make the check payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail to:

One Giant Leap Foundation, 11035 Lavender Hill Drive Ste. 160-306 Las Vegas, NV 89135

Upcoming Programs:

Tuesday, Dec. 16, 2025 No program today | Tuesday 16 Dec 2025 700PM PT

Guests: Dr. David Livingston

Tuesday, Dec. 16: No Program today. We are still in our campaign for 2026 funding. Please support us. See PayPal to the right side of our home page.

Broadcast 4474: Hotel Mars with Dr. Sabyasachi Pal | Thursday 18 Dec 2025 930AM PT

Guests: John Batchelor, Dr. David Livingston, Dr. Sabyasachi Pal

Hotel Mars with Dr. Sabyasachi Pal re Giant Radio Quasars and his 53 black hole research pape

Friday, Dec. 19, 2025 No program today. Please support The Space Show/. See the PayPal button on the right side of our home page. | Friday 19 Dec 2025 930AM PT

Guests: Dr. David Livingston

No program today due to medical. Support The Space Show by using our PayPal button on the right side of our home page.

Broadcast 4475 ZOOM Michael Listner, Atty. | Sunday 21 Dec 2025 1200PM PT

Guests: Michael Listner

ZOOM: Michael Listner, space atty breaks down legal, policy and more for 2025 space