The Ten Thousand Things

The Ten Thousand Things

By Sam Ellis, Joe Loh and Ali CatramadosSociety & CultureHealth & FitnessMental HealthRelationships
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The Ten Thousand Things episodes

  • Compromise

    We ask if we are willing to compromise to be in a long-term monogamous relationship?

    Sam discusses how to, whether we need to and to what extent we need to compromise.

    Ali shares how a lot of women have fallen in love with the idea of being single.

    We acknowledge all relationships require compromise however can we compromise our values? Can your values be flexible or do we become stuck in our ways the longer we remain single?

    We also discuss in distorted times do distorted dynamics come in to play, is finding a sugar daddy/mamma the answer to living under capitalism?

    Joe thinks we would be better off dropping some the mental load, but it is that possible for women when the expectation is that women need to manage that?

    • (00:00) - Theme
  • (00:22) - Introduction
  • (00:28) - Are we willing to compromise to be in a monogamous relationship?
  • (01:37) - Compromise is unavoidable in life
  • (02:38) - Values can't be traded away, but maybe stubborness and neurosis should be
  • (03:55) - What about 'seeking arrangement' situations?
  • (04:42) - The problem is really capitalism?
  • (05:43) - A lot of couples used to have separate places
  • (06:54) - I'm getting stuck in my ways
  • (07:17) - I wanna be able to watch test cricket for seven hours
  • (07:36) - Building a real structure, billionaires is just a distraction
  • (08:56) - No time time left over from wage labor, to work on relationship challenges
  • (11:30) - None of this is new?
  • (11:48) - But the balance of domestic labor hasn't shifted that much
  • (13:44) - You don't meet the ones who are domesticated cos they are too busy being marrie
  • (15:00) - Whose job is it to read the school emails and deal with that?
  • (18:12) - Couples work better when they play to their individual strengths, but don't assume women are better at organising things
  • (19:10) - Maybe there is an outdated assumption about living together, kids aside
  • (21:37) - Would I be happier if I couldn't be a slob?
  • (22:38) - Another win for cat dads
  • (24:01) - The ironing piles up
  • (24:30) - Respect
  • (25:58) - Why is it my job? I'm not actually good at cooking
  • (27:40) - I release you from the need to give a fuck about that
  • (28:16) - Carefully working through your expectations
  • (31:30) - Compromises for fertility reasons
  • (33:00) - "look at that c***, he never does the dishes"
  • (33:43) - "Where's my compliments?"
  • (34:16) - Why not give a compliment regularly?
  • (36:01) - What are the benefits of a live in man?
  • (38:08) - It just seems hard work to shack up
  • (38:56) - From wildly scattered to structured
  • (39:36) - Freedom is living by self-imposed rules
  • (42:33) - Be protective of your peace
  • (43:26) - Thinking about the kids when making partnering choices
  • (46:48) - F*** it, I'll just go cat lady
  • (47:36) - You're at peace with cat lady, but I don't want to be alone
  • (50:03) - Men need this more than women, once we're on the second half of life
  • (52:09) - The advantages of a cricket watching partner
  • (53:09) - "This is unacceptable to me"

  • Creators & Guests
    • Sam Ellis - Host
    • Ali Catramados - Host
    • Joe Loh - Host

    • Episode image by listener Craig, catch more of his great stuff on the gram

      We appreciate your feedback. If you would like to reach out you can find us on threads and instagram @thetenthousandthings

      Toasted sandwhich recipes:
      Ali's: Put mayo on the outside, cheese and kimchi in the middle, cook in the pan
      Sam's: Butter and oil in the pan*, low-medium heat, heavy base if you have it
      Cheese - a mix of whatever, slices of mozarella, swiss, colby, cheer, whatever
      Tomato paste, toss on some dried italian herb mix, fresh tomato (mandatory cheese above and below)
      *(can butter the outside of the bread and just put it straight on the pan)

      1 hr 2 min
    • Are the blokes ok?

      This week we listened to a Mamamia podcast where Mia Freedman interviews Caitlin Moran on her latest book "What about men?" and discuss our thoughts.

      We acknowledge we are all victims of the patriarchy, but what tools do men have to help dismantle it? Why don't they identify with feminism and why are the gravitating towards extreme figures?

      Ali explains why feminism has been helpful in plight of women, however men are not identifying with these strategies. Why can't men post photos of themselves and not be ridiculed?

      Joe felt the interview was a little condescending. He asks if young boys have no lived experience of seeing women so openly objectified as they historically were, why are they feeling like somehow they are still responsible for it? We discuss how we can help the young men in our lives navigating these challenges.

      Sam explores how the discourse analysis has been one sided and produced reactionary politics to feminism and how the facts of how men are negatively effected by the patriarchy is getting lost in the conversation.

      We also discuss what men today can do to portray positive masculine role models for young men.

      We appreciate your feedback, if you want to reach out you can find us on instagram and threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

      Find the interview here https://pod.link/995159486/episode/6573549cf512e72c5f770439a827702a

      Publisher's page for What about men? by Caitlin Moran https://www.penguin.com.au/books/what-about-men-9781529149159

      A decent article on patriarchy, men and masculinities - https://counseling.vcu.edu/students/identity-based-resources/men-and-masculinities/

      • (00:00) - Theme
    • (00:08) - Introduction
    • (02:19) - The difference between a girl posting a body shot and a boy doing the same
    • (05:57) - Slight condescension
    • (07:09) - 'What about my boy? How do I help and talk with my son?'
    • (07:59) - Boys today don't have the context of the history of gender and why feminism needed to happen
    • (08:50) - Boys and men still have their own stuff
    • (09:50) - Both victim and beneficiary, oppressor and opressed
    • (11:25) - Moran's analysis of gender is mainly about discourse
    • (14:20) - Gender pay gap
    • (16:04) - How is feminism going and how are girls really going?
    • (16:47) - Moran kept hearing 'what about boys?'
    • (17:12) - Moran is responding to the void, that Andrew Tate is profiting from
    • (18:07) - Boys being attracted to what is forbidden/getting yelled at for reading Jordan Peterson years ago
    • (23:32) - The context of the buzz around Peterson's first book, an upheavel in gender discourse
    • (26:19) - It's important that 'what about boys' comes from a woman with a strong record advocating for girls and women
    • (27:16) - Who are the good role models for boys?
    • (28:21) - Bill Burr a good role model? A nuanced commentator on gender?
    • (32:02) - 'Women are perfect/don't criticise women' is itself patriarchal
    • (34:31) - What is patriarchy, again?
    • (38:11) - Equal oppression? Would all genders benefit from a 3 or 4 day work week?
    • (39:49) - Think about economics in our personal life
    • (40:47) - Joe coming back around on class analysis
    • (44:04) - How do we become role models for young men?
    • (51:09) - 'Boys, your feelings don't matter, except when it's a problem for girls'
    • (55:42) - So are the blokes okay?

    • 1 hr 2 min
    • Feelpinions

      What are feelpinions? - Ali shares her definition and how she views it through a Dialectical Behavioural lens of logic and emotion. Sam elaborates why all extremes are mutually constitutive and why logic needs emotion and emotion needs logic, Joe however, wants more facts.

      We ask how do feelpinions affect our day to day? Are they needed to run the country or just good value in the cricket group chat?

      We share what sources we use to get our facts and how the perceived value of those facts influence how we feel about them. Ali likes her ritual of subscription news, Joe enjoys paid substack articles from bloggers while Sam prefers primary sources and secondary analysis.

      Can we trust our feelings and how do we manage our feelings when the facts feel terrifying? We explore how we manage the balance of fear with facts.

      We appreciate your feedback, if you want to reach out you can you can find us on instagram and threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

      Episode image by Craig, catch more of his great stuff on the gram

      • (00:00) - Theme
    • (00:19) - Introduction
    • (00:31) - Definition, and fact checking is for other people
    • (01:24) - Are opinions a problem?
    • (01:59) - The wise mind - dialectical behaviour therapy
    • (03:33) - Recognising error and culpability, exalted being / worthless being
    • (04:44) - Extremes make each other - cops make hippies and hippies make cops
    • (06:10) - They stole the presents from under the Christmas tree
    • (08:47) - Speaking with an authoritative tone
    • (09:59) - Feelpinions in sport
    • (11:13) - The ideal republic governed by detached intellectuals?
    • (11:54) - Subscribing to writers of long articles on Substack
    • (13:48) - Rational to feel sick about wind turbines?
    • (17:14) - SamGPT
    • (17:59) - Paying someone to tell you what to think
    • (19:11) - Joe used to read the Economist, and pay for it
    • (19:30) - If you pay, you value it
    • (21:32) - Noah Smith and Matt Yglesias
    • (22:02) - Paying to get a better quality of opinion - The Age and Guardian suck now
    • (25:13) - Following Ukraine conflict through bloggers, Telegram, and academics
    • (27:35) - The incentive is to spread rumour
    • (28:05) - The Age is very bad now - in case we didnt already say that
    • (29:14) - Crowd funded blog journalists, Matt Yglesias, NoahPininion, Matt Taibbi
    • (29:44) - The market beats us all out of shape in the end
    • (30:02) - I'm interested once it becomes old news
    • (30:44) - Why does Putin wanna kill me with a nuke?
    • (31:22) - Putin will sort all the problems out
    • (31:50) - MAGA still matters? Yes, and no. Christian Identity and Maga Communism
    • (33:10) - So you guys aren't worried about facts being hard to establish?
    • (33:22) - Is the Montana survivalist actually crazier than the Christian fascist?
    • (33:50) - Planning for a future, what future? Losing a parent young
    • (35:06) - Don't worry, we all love facts
    • (35:24) - Distrusting your feelings
    • (36:41) - Nixon didn't blow up Vietnam, not with nukes anyway
    • (37:38) - I just need to talk this stuff through sometimes / don't worry about things you can't change
    • (39:10) - Douglas Murray - read the news for five minutes only. Also he seems fash
    • (39:59) - ABC News app
    • (40:25) - Podcast recommendations
    • (42:25) - Centrist and the lure of false rationality
    • (43:10) - People don't read the articles we share
    • (43:59) - Who would I send this to? No one, that's who
    • (44:36) - Joe shoulld have his own feed: breaking down centrist coverage
    • (45:24) - Michael Schellenberger
    • (46:05) - The end of the world is not the end of the world
    • (47:00) - The algorithm treats us to the dialectic, too much of this, and now, too much of the other
    • (48:06) - Joe Rogan and Greta Thunberg
    • (49:33) - Joe Rogan before he was really big
    • (51:10) - Lucky to have wise friends
    • (51:41) - Feelings help absorb the facts
    • (52:55) - A vague sense that we might muddle through
    • Creators & Guests
      • Sam Ellis - Host
      • Ali Catramados - Host
      • Joe Loh - Host
      • 55 min
      • The Meaning of Life

        "The meaning of life" Welcome back Joe and welcome to a new format. Here at the ten thousand things we have decided to tackle the ten thousand things that distract us from loving awareness one thing at a time, so we will now be devoting each episode to one topic where we can really delve into the questions we ask. This week we have TTTT listener Oly ask us what is the meaning of life? We explore what means to us personally and what does it mean for us collectively. Sam believes we need to take responsibility of our own meaning and the meaning we ascribe to others, but ultimately it should be about fun. Ali believes we have a purpose but is unsure that purpose has meaning, however we can find meaning in moments. Joe has a more sentimental take and believes those connections can't happen in isolation but with people. We hope you enjoy the new format and appreciate any feedback, you can find us on instagram and threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

        • (00:00) - Theme
        39 min
      • Nigella - (no Joe show)

        Something a little different from The Ten Thousand Things, Joe is taking a well deserved break in beautiful Vietnam so Sam and Ali take the opportunity to discuss all things Autism/ADHD through their lived experiences.
        1 - How has neurodiversity contributed to our biggest successes and failures? Sam and Ali share how their neurodiversity impacts their day to day lives, are we doing the right things at the right time? We also share how we've learnt to work with our differences rather than against it.
        2 - Who runs the world? Women, young women specifically. We discuss how these young trailblazers and taste makers define the cultural landscape and what we can learn from them to fit in.
        3 - Nigella, the domestic goddess. Sam and Ali's special interests cross over and we deep dive into all things Nigella and how we use food to connect with the "normies".

        Creators & Guests

        • Ali Catramados - Host
        • Sam Ellis - Host
        • Hit us up on threads or instagram @thetenthousandthings
          or email, that’s the classy thing to do
          • (00:00) - Theme
        • (00:19) - Introduction
        • 1 hr 29 min
        • The Bonobos of Naarm

          Self actualisation / non monogamy / Communism
          1 - Quotation corner "Ageing is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always thought you should be" David Bowie Ali explains why this quote resonated with her. Sam discusses why finding your medium for expression is so important and Joe shares how he's found contentment through podcasting. We discuss trying to find your cultural capital and is self actualisation just faking it until you make it?
          2 - Non monogamy. Sam explains the patriarchal dynamics of chimpanzees and the matricentric dynamics of bonobos and how we are not so different from our chimpanzee and counterparts.
          Joe delves into how jealousy and insecurity make polyamory difficult and Ali shares her thoughts on why she doesn't think men are very good at non monogamy. We ask are all the "narmies" polyamorous and is that better?

          3 - Listener mail Eben has written in to ask Sam if he is in fact a card carrying communist and what role, if any, does communism have in 2023? We share our beliefs and what we would like to put in to practice.

          Creators & Guests

          • Joe Loh - Host
          • Ali Catramados - Host
          • Sam Ellis - Host
          • Hit us up on threads or instagram @thetenthousandthings
            or email, that’s the classy thing to do
            • (00:00) - Theme
          • (00:19) - Topic summary
          • (00:48) - Quotation Corner - Bowie on becoming the person you should have been
          • (26:32) - Announcement - show length poll results
          • (27:18) - Non monogamy
          • (59:06) - Listener mail - Communism, human nature
          • 1 hr 28 min
          • "Family values"

            Our parent's values / Crying / Jaded dating profiles


            1 - How did our parents values shape our own?

            Ali shares how she's not only grown into her parents' values. Sam explores the dichotomy of how his parents created a culture of questioning in a Hare Krishna environment and Joe shares how his parents politics influenced their values. We also ask whether boomers will ever be able to see how good they had it.


            2 - Is crying for losers?

            Ali shares how her views on crying have changed and how she's come to embrace it. Sam details some anecdotes of how women don't like crying and how that impacts men feeling comfortable expressing emotions. Joe explains why he would like to be able to tap into the cathartic experience of crying. We also discuss how our own attitudes towards crying have shaped our responses to seeing other people cry. 

            The Relationship of Gender Roles and Beliefs to Crying in an International Sample

            3 - Jaded dating profiles

            We delve into jaded dating profiles, should we be using the space to express our deal breakers, or if you get to that point, should you just take a break?

            ------ (☞゚ヮ゚)☞

            If you would like to learn a bit more about the podcast or us feel free to follow us on Instagram and Threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

            Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

            Image courtesy of Craig Wishart

            • (00:00) - Preview
          • (00:50) - Theme
          • (01:17) - Topic summary
          • (01:34) - What values did we get from our families?
          • (43:45) - Crying - the good, the bad, the ugly
          • (01:02:22) - Jaded dating app profiles
          • (01:25:52) - Encourage our nonsense: is it the length, or what you do with it?
          • (01:27:39) - Talk to us direct on instagram, or email if you're that way
          • (01:28:02) - Arguing over the show insta
          • (01:28:50) - Why follow the show insta? For Ali and Joe's music picks of course
          • (01:29:42) - Ragging on Ali's cat photos - white woman's instagram
          • 1 hr 33 min
          • Everyone's a 10, and We Are All One

            Leaning in, to content, confidence and courage.

            Do we read books anymore? / How do you rate yourself? / Is spirituality just watered down religion?


            1 - Are you a book dragon or a book worm? We ask how in an ever increasing time poor society is there time to read and does it matter what medium and content you're reading?


            Sam shares why he believes physical books are not necessary and that reading and learning are more accessible than ever before. Joe is worried the kids are not reading anymore and longs to be able to curl up at night with a good book. Ali shares why she loves to give away her books. 


            2 - If we can't all be 7s can we objectively rate ourselves? We break down why the system of rating is complex and the value we place different attributes. Why do men consistently rate themselves higher and women lower?


            Ali believes comparison is the thief of joy and we should just try to find the people who think we are 10s. Sam shares how as we get older, through hard work you can improve your rating and Joe discusses the different values men and women places on looks vs other attributes. We all agree we are ageing like fine wines.


            3 - Listener mail from Hugh McGinlay - we give Hugh a second bite of the apple and ask if modern day spirituality is just watered down religion and discuss the courage to pursue your beliefs.


            Joe explains how his experience of God has been profound in his life. Ali shares and why she places her faith in science. Sam is still waiting for a sign. We explore if we don't need organised religion anymore can we connect with the divine through psychosis, drugs and sex?


            Art by Craig Wishart


            And a little DVD extra - a chat about Ali joining the show

            Creators & Guests

            • Joe Loh - Host
            • Ali Catramados - Host
            • Sam Ellis - Host

            • If you would like to learn a bit more about the podcast or us feel free to follow us on Instagram and Threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

              Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

              Image courtesy of Craig Wishart

              1 hr 19 min
            • Be Here Now

              How the language of therapy took over dating / The little things that help / Death
               
               1 - Are we able to diagnose our dates? Should we?
               
               Ali discusses if therapists are having proxy relationships through us or is it better to just focus on clear communication instead? Joe finds "red flags" limiting and wants a more nuanced conversation. Sam shares how the mystery of long term relationships remains. We also discuss if datings apps are ruining monogamy or do we all just want to stay in the lavender haze?

              https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/11/style/therapy-speak-dating.html

              “I don’t know if I’ve learned anything yet! I did learn how to have a happy home, but I consider myself fortunate in that regard because I could’ve rolled right by it. Everybody has a superficial side and a deep side, but this culture doesn’t place much value on depth — we don’t have shamans or soothsayers, and depth isn’t encouraged or understood. Surrounded by this shallow, glossy society we develop a shallow side, too, and we become attracted to fluff. That’s reflected in the fact that this culture sets up an addiction to romance based on insecurity — the uncertainty of whether or not you’re truly united with the object of your obsession is the rush people get hooked on. I’ve seen this pattern so much in myself and my friends and some people never get off that line.

              But along with developing my superficial side, I always nurtured a deeper longing, so even when I was falling into the trap of that other kind of love, I was hip to what I was doing. I recently read an article in Esquire magazine called ‘The End of Sex,’ that said something that struck me as very true. It said: “If you want endless repetition, see a lot of different people. If you want infinite variety, stay with one.” What happens when you date is you run all your best moves and tell all your best stories — and in a way, that routine is a method for falling in love with yourself over and over.

              You can’t do that with a longtime mate because he knows all that old material. With a long relationship, things die then are rekindled, and that shared process of rebirth deepens the love. It’s hard work, though, and a lot of people run at the first sign of trouble. You’re with this person, and suddenly you look like an asshole to them or they look like an asshole to you — it’s unpleasant, but if you can get through it you get closer and you learn a way of loving that’s different from the neurotic love enshrined in movies. It’s warmer and has more padding to it.” - Joni Mitchell on long term commitment
               
               2 - What little things do we do that help us?
               
               Sam finds staying connected to friends, family and yourself most beneficial. Joe has found self care rituals to be very helpful. Ali shares why blondes have the most fun and why we should all "take a thousand naked pictures of yourself"
               
               3 - Quotation corner "If the very worst comes to pass we'll only be dead, a very common and ultimately bearable occurrence"
               
               Joe realises he needs to uproot his fear of death in order to enjoy life. Ali shares why her view on death has changed. Sam has learnt that you fear death the most when you're wasting your time, so use your time wisely.

              Cover Image: Be Here Now - Ram Dass

              If you would like to learn a bit more about the podcast or us feel free to follow us on Instagram and Threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

              Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

              • (00:00) - Be Here Now
            • (01:00) - The language of therapy, in dating
            • (27:20) - The little things that can help our mental health
            • (39:32) - Death - getting our heads around it
            • 1 hr 4 min
            • Benefits!

              The benefits of large language models including Chat GPT / The benefits of neurodiversity / The benefits of working on yourself

              1 - What are the benefits of emerging AI technologies? Will it advance us or be our undoing?

              Will Joe's doomsday predictions come to fruition or will it be a golden age for human creativity? Ali has mixed feelings, will we make not just our jobs but ourselves redundant? Sam is hoping if not for complete marxist revolution that it will create a universal usefulness guarantee where we are all earning, learning and caring.

              2 - What are the benefits of neurodiversity? Is capitalism maladaptive to diversity or does this diversity play a vital role in a healthy eco-system?

              Ali shares her experience of re-framing her vulnerabilities as strengths and how her neurodiverity has made her better at work. Can Joe be a shaman in this capitalist hell-scape? Sam shares how he's been able to mitigate some of the chaotic elements into passion projects.

              3 - Quotation corner "I can do nothing for you but work on myself and you can do nothing for me but work on yourself" - Ram Dass

              Can people really change? Joe addresses some feedback from boomers, are we just navel gazing or are we really "doing the work"? Sam examines the benefits of being able to check your own bullshit and Ali shares why it's in fact not selfish to put yourself first.
              Photo by Tim Mossholder on Unsplash

              If you would like to learn a bit more about the podcast or us feel free to follow us on Instagram and Threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

              Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

              1 hr 6 min

            About The Ten Thousand Things

            From the publisher's feed

            Sometimes deep, often amusing, therapeutic chats touching on philosophy, spirituality, religion, consciousness, culture, music, dating, and life. Join Sam, Joe and Ali as they discuss the 10,000 illusions that make up “reality”.