The Ten Thousand Things

Neurodivergence, New Years Resolutions, and Future Focus

We welcome the New Year by

• evaluating the usefulness of New Years resolutions
• sharing the honest struggles we’ve had
• small triumphs
• Ali shares her journey to quit smoking and the strategies she employs.
• a positive version of sunk cost fallacy, where we are motivated to defend small gains and build on them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
• making excuses and justifications for not taking responsibility
• tricking yourself into doing things your mind is resisting
• quitting/reducing drinking
• cleaner living, bad skin after xmas blowout
• the power of vanity in keeping motivated
• Ali and Sam pleased about looking younger than some of the other school mums
• how the concept of future thinking and goal setting has influenced our lives
• touching on the psychology concept of ‘delay discounting’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_preferenceas a key to understanding addiction, financial errors and not getting around to acting on our ambitions
• debate the relevance of the neurodivergent label for individuals and the three of us
• the present and future of the show. Our personal and collective mission, methods, and reasons for doing it.

Meta pod discussion for the stans:

• As we reflect on our podcast journey, we contemplate whether to foreground our identity as neurodivergent individuals and how it plays into the show.
• We also share our ambitions for the podcast going forward, including our New Year resolution to de-emphasize diagnoses and just be ourselves.
• Sam digresses into the huge value gained from listening to niche and highly specific podcasts
• Joe advocates having ‘no angle’ and ‘no identity’ 
• the value of anything should be in the doing, in the process. Bhakti Yoga and many other traditions teach we should not do things for reward, nor should we be attached to any particular outcome.
• Podding is more like a zine and having absolute intellectual freedom
  Success is to have critics as well as praise
• we express our gratitude towards our listeners and each other, and acknowledge the affirming impact of their feedback on our personal lives and our collective journey.
• Sam offers some recent pod finds that taught the wisdom of ‘I am becoming’ statements, versus ‘I am’ statements

Creators & Guests

• (00:00) - TTTT 37 - New Year New You

Who's Your Guru? (and is Slavoj Žižek any good?)

Sam, Joe and Ali discuss gurus, including the online type:

• our times are thick with public intellectuals, influencers, and self-proclaimed experts 
• Sam's frequent references to Slavoj Žižek, and Joe's conclusion that he doesn't make much sense, and isn't much chop intellectually. 
• Sam on literal guru worship in the Hare Krishnas - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Society_for_Krishna_Consciousness
• should we just speak for ourselves, rather than filter our thoughts or present them in relation to influential figures?
• figures like Jordan Peterson, Douglas Murray 
• the resort to online gurus during times of uncertainty, about how to know and think (the so-called epistemological crisis)
• A few of Joe's past figures get a mention: Stephen Pinker, Michael Shellenberger,
• how problematic it can be when these gurus leave their area of expertise
• many people will detect that guru lane drift, but many others still trust their Guru's every word, which is perhaps the whole point of gurus
• the power of dialogue with other humans in understanding our own internally competing perspectives, and helping us evaluate information and perception
• striving for clarity amidst an overload of information.

Useful sources:

• The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (peer reviewed) - Zizek entry https://iep.utm.edu/zizek/
• Zizek Wikipedia
• Zizek wikiquote
• Some key Zizek ideas from The Conversation

Creators & Guests

• (00:00) - Introduction and Hosts

What Do We Want To Pass On To Our Children?

Find out what controversial song was top of Ali's music wrap for the year. Oh, and we delve into parenting: 

• specifically, how should we influence our kids
• On the Road, Jack Kerouac; Homage to Catalonia, George Orwell; David Bowie all get a mention
• the influence we want to have, versus what really happens
• personal experiences, the influence of books and other texts versus direct communication
• feeling unsure about who to be as a parent and a person
• what are we actually shooting for with values and is it a simple transfer? No
• the concept of meaningful freedom and how it relates to addiction
• hyper gendered kids stuff, sugar, screens and other baddies
• the inevitable reflections on our own upbringing
• some of our current and past approaches to parenting, and hopes for the future
• spirituality gets another plug - and it hasn't even taken out a sponsorship

• (00:00) - Welcome and intro

Possible triggers. A confronting episode but one we are proud of. Sam, Joe, and Ali explore the impacts, recovery and residues of mental breakdowns.

• The recent Robbie Williams documentary has kicked off many discussions about mental health
• Robbie's demeanour on screen reminded Ali of herself. He was had extraordinary energy before his collapse, as did Ali, with full time work, a small child, a backyard farm and making sourdough from scratch
• In the present, Ali can see that something inside Williams is 'still broken' or 'empty' even though he remains functional in most areas of life
• This led Ali to consider her life and self now, and compare it with her perception of self before her breakdown
• We collectively navigate Ali's personal journey through mental health challenges, including a severe breakdown that led her into a state of psychotic mania and hospitalization.
• Joe brings up Donald Winnicott and his concept of the 'good enough parent' which relates to the 'good enough self', which is the best self, because it is the True Self, as opposed to the ideal self, which is a False Self, and is not sustainable (leading to many problems including breakdowns). Winnicott also gave us the idea that 'the catastrophe we fear has already happened'- which also relates to Ali's experience clo
• We delve into the changes in energy levels, personal expectations, ambitions, and the perceived self after such an experience.
• We look for therapeutic and analytic angles to discuss the theme of death and mortality in Ali's breakdown
• Ali's story strongly reminds Sam of Joseph Campbell's idea of the Hero's Journey*. Sam proposes that Ali followed most of the stages of the Journey in her breakdown, but may have remaining analysis to complete on the Road Back to the Ordinary World.
• We touch on diagnostic perspectives, struggles with unmet expectations, and the thirst for normalcy
• Joe advocates for spiritual exploration as an intrinsic part of the journey of healing and understanding, and as the best way to meet that higher calling, to live a full life.

*Campbell's book The Hero With A Thousand Faces is an analysis of myth, through ideas from psycho therapy, . The journey is a model of psychological struggle and change in the self. In various stages the self must deal with a Call to Adventure which disrupts their world, they cross into an unknown world, they face dangers, and approach the innermost cave, with an increasing and impending feeling of life and death, they face an ordeal, a struggle and rebirth, an atonement and resurrection. The Road Back is also full of dangers, before we can re-enter the Ordinary World, but find ourselves changed, and our experience of the world forever altered.

Keywords: Mental Breakdowns, Recoveries, Energy Levels, Psychosis, Psychotherapy, Psycho-analysis, Mania, Winnicott, The Good Enough Parent, Spirituality, Higher Calling

Creators & Guests

• (00:00) - Theme and host intro

00:00 Theme and host intro
00:48 Robbie Williams: another Ali Sam crossover
01:36 The Attraction to Robbie Williams
02:39 Mental Breakdowns: do we ever put the pieces back together again?
03:31 Ali's Personal Experience with Mental Breakdown
05:08 The Aftermath of a Mental Breakdown
05:32 The Healing Process
08:09 Ali's breakdown and afterwards
11:19 The Struggle of Recovery
12:44 Reflections on the Healing Journey
26:36 Living in the Future: A Discussion on Expectations
26:40 The Psych Ward Experience: Future Focus vs Present Moment
27:08 Facing Mortality: A Personal Perspective
27:22 The Illusion of Imminent Death and Its Impact
27:27 The Struggle with Physical Health and Self-Perception
28:28 The Power of Therapy: Understanding Psychosis
28:57 The Reality of Perception: A Psychedelic Experience
29:49 The Fear of Failure and the Pressure of Expectations
31:50 The Fear of Disappointing Family and the Pressure of Social Scripts
37:55 The Struggle with Energy Levels and the Desire for a Higher Calling

We explore the experience of identifying as victim, through personal stories and theory, and of course the potential of spirituality and psychotherapy in helping move through, and renounce identities over time.

We discuss the dangers of adhering to a single identity label, and the benefit of taking responsibility for our own actions and healing, while being aware that we are also inescapably interconnected with others.

 Identities such as Victim are necessary and useful, and can arise naturally from a life event such as an accident, an assault, or injustice, but also from ordinary childhood experiences, a personal identity, or a relationship dynamic. So we may come to identify as victim. This is normal, but over time our sense of self shifts greatly and we move through many identifications. to enable us to life more fully.

We've all been a victim, we all suffer, we all deserve comfort and help, and it's also true that we sometimes cling too long to a sense of being The Victim. We are usually right about that victimhood in some way, even with people who fraudulently claim victim status. While fraudulent victims provoke understandable outrage, as we see in the extraordinary case of Belle Gibson, such people are probably suffering in any case, and their fraud itself is an indicator that something is wrong in their lives.

Sam finds a related quote about Lacan's formulation of fantasy, the Other, the alienation of the subject, and restoring the dignity of the subject by letting go of fantasy. Marx and Zizek get a mention.

And we get into how spirituality and therapy both invite a deconstruction of ego and fantasies. The conversation concludes with the benefit of adopting broader, more interdependent perspectives on life.

Image courtesy: Craig https://www.instagram.com/p/CrFzDLgK7Mw/

Creators & Guests

• (00:00) - Being the victim

Only posting about shit you have personal experience of? 

• Ali explains why white middle class people should maybe shut up. 
• Team discuss different social media platforms and shouting into the void
• Posting hot photos on Instagram as awareness raising? 
• The power of posting about stuff you have lived experience with. 
• Sam talks about the power of herd acceptance and how minds change more often than people realise. 
• The advantages of podcasts over social media for actually learning things. 
• The team discuss the information space and Australian politics. Joe talks about becoming a centrist because he’s so sick of being in the inner-city leftie bubble. 
• The Voice referendum is discussed. Sam accuses Joe of thinking people power is non-existent. 
• Facebook is waning fast but offered strong predictive data about Boomer voting intentions in said referendum  
• Ali mentions marriage equality as a successful campaign with a social media element. The Middle East rears it’s ugly head.
• Ali and Sam conclude that everyone has personal experience of everything and should post whatever they want, Joe is pissed off.

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Creators & Guests

• (00:00) - Theme and intro

The team discuss a quote from Christian mystic Emmett Fox on grievances:

• Joe quotes the cliché that “Having a resentment is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to get sick” and links resentments to addiction. Ali talks about how resentments led to disordered eating.
• Joe proposes complete forgiveness for all harms and Sam says “That’s Christianity!” and also Hare Krishna. 
• The team discuss political resentments and justified resentment. 
• The concept of The Secret Place, which is consciousness, is elucidated.
• Ali brings up old people trapped in bitterness and resentment. 
• Sam discusses what memories came up for him when he had kids, and that he “is his parents”. 
• The team get into some deep therapy gear & discuss spiritual solutions to deep seated problems. 
• Joe realises Jesus is his homie. 
• Sam points out that while that might be true Joe is actually the Woman at the Well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan_woman_at_the_well

• (00:00) - Theme

If you enjoy the show, others may also. It can be helpful to tell them what you get from it that you don't find elsewhere, and how to listen on their device. Find us at https://www.instagram.com/thetenthousandthingspodcast/

We discuss mental breakdowns: the need we all have occasionally, the experience of it, and the benefits! Joe, Sam and Ali have had at least one menty b each, as many people now call them. An almost loving and affectionate term, which suggests that this process is something we could maybe greet like a friend. However, it can be very frightening, and isolating, and difficult for others.

We talk about the role of work pressures, unsustainable domestic roles, and the intensity of family life. 'Capitalism' gets a lot of the blame for mental breakdowns, from Ali and Sam at least. And we talk about how our ever-present childhood trauma may combine with recent experience and bring on a crisis.

The shame that comes from having a mental breakdown can cause people to deny or conceal their experience, or to never speak of it. People often go to extraordinary lengths to avoid breakdowns. We tend to recommend not doing that, however we are not doctors, so seek your own advice.

The benefits are many, and not just to the individual. A mental breakdown can signal problems that need addressing, by the person suffering directly, and by others around them. A proper breakdown will prompt the right adjustments much more effectively than a polite chat. It forces us to do what we need to do, which is often to rest, and give up all responsibilities completely, for some time, shorter or longer. By really pausing our lives, questioning all aspects of our existence, and what we think is important, we can build a new set of assumptions and priorities and begin again, changed.

We agreed that discussing breakdowns may be helpful to all. When people tell their stories, it highlights the pressures of life, and helps others to acknowledge their own pressures and breakdowns. It's a chance to share what has been learned.

People can gain valuable insights in the experience of our 'self' being deconstructed involuntarily, and through the task of building up the self again. We could think of it as dramatizing a process that occurs quietly, on a small scale, within us all. Every day, the self is put together and let go of again.

Mental breakdowns often come from unsustainable pressures on a person. It could be a combination of many things over time, and/or a few big things coinciding. People may cope with a lot for a long time, and then find they are unable to continue coping. People may begin a breakdown following a shock, a major change of role or identity, or a death. Or it may be something less obvious, and it may take a relatively long time.

The person experiencing breakdown may have been lacking what they needed to deal with a situation, or had habits or beliefs that needed to change. Sometimes people are able to adapt and avoid breakdown, through choice or unconscious adjustment, but a lot of us need to hit a brick wall in order to realise that we must change something in some way, whether it's ourselves, our beliefs, roles, or circumstances.

Meanwhile, people around the sufferer also have the change to recognise that things were unsustainable and to be part of making the right changes.
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Image by Craig - Sycamore Gap - 'the Robin Hood tree'

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Creators & Guests

The team discuss the art of letting go of friends. Outgrowing friends or just growing in different directions? Joe says if you start judging friends it’s the beginning of the end. We get into painful friendship break ups.

Platonic friendships – are men just biding their time? Sam recalls dating the hottest woman on Brunswick St, just to put it on the public record. Joe & Ali discuss their own weird bipolar friendship. Sam sings some Peter Allen.

Deep conversations between men without mind altering substances – are they possible?

Everyone wants to tell Ali and Joe their darkest secrets on dates but never want to see Joe again and want to be with Ali forever.

Sam discusses his major bromance break up.

We discuss money and class coming between people.

Sam talks about making friends his family at boarding school and that influences his adult friendships. 

Who can we really reach out to when we’re depressed?

We talk for twenty minutes after we say we’re wrapping up and it’s all gold!

• (00:00) - Letting go of friends

Two bipolar romance movies
Katie Holmes - Touched with Fire
Jennifer Lawrence - Silver Linings Playbook

If you like the show, tell a friend where to find us -> pod.link/tttt. Compliments, complaints, corrections at Insta/Threads, we're all in the metaverse dammit.

Sam, Joe and Ali reflect on our experiences in therapy. Sometimes the results seem clear – other times they’re hard to see. All agree it’s important to compare your progress to your past self, not some idealised perfect self. 

We discuss people who don’t think they need therapy. Ali mentions people who “prefer to work things out themselves”. 

Sam discusses the frustration of the session ending after 50 minutes – Joe says he wants an 8 hour MDMA therapy session – Sam wants to get on the ketamine.

Parents get a light going over. Sam discusses a breakthrough around his time in Hare Krishna boarding school. Things can’t be fully resolved, but they can be carried more lightly. 

Does Bill Burr think therapy is bullshit, or does he do it? (We think so)

Ali discusses sharing her darkest secrets with Joe and the trust involved in the that. 

We discuss psychiatrists vs psychologists and where bipolar comes from. Joe says he can intellectualise feelings but struggles to actually feel feelings. 

Ali says three years is the sweet spot for how long therapy should take to work. 

Sam reckons more like 10 years for him and talks about being exasperating. 

We conclude with a discussion of the psychoanalytic method and why we always end up back in childhood.

Thank you for listening and finding value here. Tell a friend where to find us. https://www.instagram.com/thetenthousandthingspodcast/

• (00:00) - Theme