The Ten Thousand Things

Transcript:
That's Joseph Campbell from an interview he did. I won’t pretend to be an expert on what the anima is but I took note of this because it resonated with me. I can see that I've done this throughout my adult life. It's to project something, onto a woman in my case. And then basically have a relationship with that projection.

And there's an incredible high that comes from doing that. And they become perfected in your mind. And quite often I can take photos of women when I'm in this state, they will be sitting in a café or wherever, and it will be a particularly attractive photo of them. And quite often they get some kind of high out of it too.

But as Joseph Campbell says:

“Pretty soon you say through the projection. And then what happens?”

Well, in my case, what happens is I tend to end the relationship. And often the women are left hurt and confused about what went wrong.

And it reminds me of the Joni Mitchell quote about monogamy and how if all you ever have is short-term relationships and casual dating then basically, you’re just dating yourself over and over again. Telling the same stories, revealing the same small parts of yourself, and having the same fun.

Whereas to really go deep with someone and commit and really get into the complexities of getting to know someone is to have a much deeper experience. But I think that moves you past romantic love and chemistry and all the hedonism that's inherent in all those chemicals floating around. I think that moves you to something that maybe feels a lot more ordinary a lot of the time. That slow layering process of really getting to know one person.

And sitting here now I can see that that is an ideal for me. The problem I have is whenever I meet a new person, I tend to project my anima onto them and have the same relationship over and over again. I’m trying to get out of that trap and move onto hopefully something more profound.

Creators & Guests

Joseph Campbell is also one of my go-to teachers. Not necessarily an authority on up to date folklore, but certainly someone who can open you up to new ideas and give you courage to face fears and challenges. Campbell has helped many people greatly with perhaps one the hardest things in life, to actually face our true purposes and choose to move towards lives of greater meaning and yes, love.

Reading about anima/animus, I found an interesting summary of Jung's four levels of Eros (erotic romantic love) associated with development/integration of the anima. Maturation of romantic love felt towards women, moves from:
1. Eve: desire, needs, nourishment, security and love
2. Helen: recognition of women's intelligence, competences and achievements in their own right
3. Mary: Righteous, paragon of virtue: recognition of women's moral accomplishments I would say
4: Sophia: finally recognising women as wise and fully human, *gasp*, equal, and not at all an object.

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I also found Maria Popova's wonderful article in the Marginalian, a great match with Joe's reflection today. Reviewing Pathways to Bliss, Campbell's book on love, purpose and reality, she also quotes Anais Nin, Zen teacher D.T Suzuki, Stendahl, Dan Savage and the poet Rilke. Popova offers a striking synthesis drawing on many sources, persuading us powerfully that embracing imperfection and compassion is the path to love and meaning. Joseph Campbell on Why Perfectionism Kills Love and the Pathway to Bliss in Romantic Relationships

Kindred Media has some powerful articles by Amy Wright Glenn, who works as a yoga teacher, doula and chaplain. Clearly she is someone who specialises in helping people at life's most difficult moments. She tells stories of love, grief, bliss and purpose. 

I welcome the superb clarity she brings to Campbell's ideas and her own insight. 

Amy Wright Glenn in the same article, gives us a poignant outline of Campbell's notion of three kinds of love: Agape (universal sacred love), Eros (sexual), and Amor (romantic) with key observations about each. Highly recommended! https://kindredmedia.org/2015/03/joseph-campbell-love-and-follow-your-bliss/ 

Since the publication of The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Campbell's theories have been applied by a wide variety of modern writers and artists. His philosophy has been summarized by his own often repeated phrase: "Follow your bliss."[6] He gained recognition in Hollywood when George Lucas credited Campbell's work as influencing his Star Wars saga.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell

For more great quotesfrom Campbell https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell

Creators & Guests

Joe is writing over at https://joeloh.substack.com/ and it's genuinely sizzling stuff. You can tell he read Hunter S Thompson and Kerouac as a youngster, and since then I'm assuming he's read other stuff that sounds more mature, because his writing is kind of both of those things. It's present and truthful, and entirely unsentimental, but it has feelings in it. That link again: https://joeloh.substack.com/

- Sam

Image courtesy of Craig https://wish-art.blog/gallery/

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More on the quote's source, A More Loving World: How to increase compassion, kindness and joy at https://www.theschooloflife.com/shop/a-more-loving-world/ An extract of the book is available at https://assets.theschooloflife.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/04143544/A-More-Loving-World_extract.pdf

About the author of today's quote:

He co-founded The School of Life in 2008 and Living Architecture in 2009.[1][2] In 2015, he was awarded "The Fellowship of Schopenhauer", an annual writers' award from the Melbourne Writers Festival, for that work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_de_Botton

More great quotes from Alain de Botton at https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alain_de_Botton

Transcript:

That's Alain de Botton. And that really struck me because I think I'd always given myself an out. That it didn't really matter what I did. That I was a small and insignificant person.

And as it says 'however mesmerized we are by the deplorable behaviour of powerful individuals...' 

It always seemed enough to just look at someone like a Donald Trump, and just be like, "well, I'm nowhere near that bad, and I'm also nowhere near that powerful, so the things that I do don't really matter."

But as it says 'we are constantly capable of causing other people significant hurt.' 

I look back and see a lot of burnt bridges. And actually burning bridges is the only way I know to deal with a lot of this stuff. 

And I like to think that I have gotten better in sobriety and recovery. 

But I've always had an edge that's capable of hurting people.

And I guess the point of this note and why I wrote it down at the time, and why it struck me so much, was this is the justification that I'd used for my poor behaviour in hurting people, that I was just a little insignificant ant. 

And reflecting on it now, it's partially that insignificance that led to some of the rage, that led to some of the bitterness, that led to some of the poor behaviour. 

So, I guess the thing that I'm trying to find now, is some genuine humility. And just getting myself out of the way and seeing other people, and other people have their struggles. 

And to quote Bob Dylan's grandma, that "everyone walks a hard road."  

And I know I'm not going to get this right. It's not going to be perfect. 

But this quote reminds me that I matter to maybe a handful of people, but to those people I really matter. And I have to be really careful to try to be kind wherever I possibly can. 

And it doesn't matter what's happened to me. It doesn't matter whether I've been given a diagnosis or I feel like I've had a hard time in life. 

It actually only matters how I act in the world.

That's what I'll be judged on. And that's what I should be judged on. 

I need to get my thoughts right. And my emotions, right. And then hopefully my actions will improve.

All that is necessary then is to rest undistractedly in the immediate present, in this very instant in time.
And if we become drawn away by thoughts, by longings, by hopes and fears, again and again we can return to this present moment.
We are here.
We are carried off as if by the wind, and as if by the wind, we are brought back.
When one thought has ended and another has not begun, we can rest in that space.
We train in returning to the unchanging heart of this very moment.
All compassion and all inspiration come from that.
Pema Chodron - When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times (1997)

This short episode is from Joe, intended as the first of many, reflecting on passages he took note of in reading. Next week's main ep will explain more of the back story behind this new project.
 
Joe is writing over at https://joeloh.substack.com, and (Sam here) I say it's very good stuff. Very honest. Totally Joe. A rollicking read.
Creators & Guests

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About the author of today's quote:

More Pema Chodron quotes at https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Pema_Ch%C3%B6dr%C3%B6n

By the same author: How to Meditate: A Practical Guide to Making Friends with Your Mind (2008)

Romantic Realities: Deconstructing the Romantic Love Myth

We dive into the misconceptions of romantic love prevalent in Western culture, drawing on a quote from You Are the One You've Been Waiting For: Applying Internal Family Systems to Intimate Relationships, by Richard Swartz. Get the book from Internal Family Systems Institute at https://ifs-institute.com/you-are-one-youve-been-waiting

Sam mentions Let's Get Vulnerable: Relationship and Dating Advice podcast with Dr Morgan, yet again, but actually links to it this time. https://episodes.fm/1496034764 to find it on your podcast player of choice. But I use and recommend Podcast Guru, and Fountain, available on all phones ... anyway it's a great resource on attachment theory, and if you end up taking a workshop let Sam know how it goes.

Here's the quote:

We touch on:

• the usual gossip and personal experiences, in between the wise and reflective stuff.
• historic context of romantic love as an ideal
• likely role of biology in facilitating feelings of romantic love
• vs the grim reality of marriage historically, as the transfer of property between men
• romance in media
• the unrealistic expectations it sets
• reflect on the nature of love
• love's challenges
• the importance of self-love 
• and realistic expectations in intimate relationships
• dynamics of attachment styles
• mental health, and the balance between self-reliance and being a good partner
• a broader contemplation of love's realities versus its cultural constructions

Episode image: courtesy of Craig - read stories and look at more great shots at https://wish-art.blog/gallery/

The show cover is from the filming of The KLF's Ancients of Mu clip - https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/apr/27/return-of-the-klf-bill-drummond-jimmy-cauty

Show theme is from Ehsan Gelsi - he just dropped a new song video today - it's nice synth instrumental music. Watch the maestro at work over at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN9XE0UKZDE

0:00 TTTT Is Love the Drug?
00:18 Myth of Romantic Love
02:10 Personal Stories: Rethinking Romance
04:53 Debating the Reality of Romantic Love
08:18 The Cultural and Biological Perspectives on Love
32:42 Navigating New Beginnings and Misunderstandings
32:54 The Journey of Moving In and Relationship Dynamics
33:22 Relationship Flags: Red, Yellow, and Green
36:10 Mental Health and Self-Awareness in Relationships
52:54 Reflections on Love, Choice, and Commitment

• (00:00) - Is Love the Drug?

Listeners are producers. Thank you for getting the show out.
I reflect on my own podcast listening: helpful with insomnia, and a lifeline during tough times. Write me here

Reading a wide range of listener notes, I respond and explore 

• personal themes:
• vulnerability
• thoughts on how to engage usefully with attachment theory, to go looking for the things we don't want to say
• the two breakdown eps from Joe and Ali
• voyeurism: when is it okay to listen to people spilling about intense experiences
• I say it's because people pod with honesty, because they want to be seen and accepted, flaws and all, so you're helping. If it's feeding something exploitative, you'll feel it.

Themes around speaking, activism, expression:

• the half-informed should speak, while being honest about their level of understanding, otherwise we will only hear from the powerful and the uninformed, who are never honest about their level of understanding
• middle-class white women do speak up a lot, but should continue to do so
• a brief history of middle-class women as key activists
• I encourage a writer who listens, to start a show, and offer support and advice to anyone curious about getting started

Networked communal media not subject to the algorithm

• the communal, horizontal, networked experience of podcasts (listeners become producers, or step up to speak, in a mutually supporting way) 
• audio over RSS: the last medium not to have been completely overrun by ads and algorithms
• open nature of podcast distribution via RSS feeds, Really Simple Syndication, contrasting it with highly vertical, platform-dependent media (LOCKED SYSTEMS = serfdom)
• commercial radio thrived on podcast-ish values before becoming a bloated ad beast
• a call for community support and contribution, reinforcing the collaborative spirit of podcasting 
• listeners as producers, who contribute to the content and continuity of podcasts
• Value for Value, decentralisation: the philosophy we need for sustainable media in the age of closed platforms
• the importance of fearless feedback in all directions
• the democratizing power of podcasts under techno-feudalism

Creators & Guests

• (00:00) - The Life-Changing Power of Podcasts

00:00 The Life-Changing Power of Podcasts
01:11 Podcast Listening Habits
02:07 Podcast Listeners as Producers
03:38 Exploring Attachment Theory Through Listener Feedback
06:21 The Open Nature of Podcasting vs. Centralized Media
24:18 Embracing Vulnerability and Listener Connections
25:06 The Power of Envy and Personal Growth
25:36 Podcasting as a Form of Expression
30:02 The Impact of Listening and Speaking
32:27 Exploring Faith and Listener Feedback

Thinking back on favourite films, it becomes clear what they say about us. Cinema, the Psyche, unveiling Inner Heroes

It's always therapy and psychoanalysis around here, movies are the vehicle. Favourite films reflect deep psychological themes and evolving personal identities. What we once found aspirational in a character, we might later rethink, or realise it was not the healthiest hero to have. Others may have been right for the time.

So we mainly talk about movies our younger selves were drawn to, Pulp Fiction, Terminator 2, The Matrix, Le Samurai, The Thin Red Line, Beaches, When Harry Met Sally, Sleepless in Seattle, Funny Girl, 'Now, Voyager', All About Eve, and Stella Dallas.

It's the usual mix of personal stories, and psychological insights, plus film analysis and some half-remembered film theory, looking at identification with film characters, self-perception, the making and collapsing of reality, and the separate self. We also touch on the gender dynamics in film identification, the concept of sacrificial love, and the role of cinema in shaping or reflecting social norms and personal dreams. It all brings us eventually to the universal quest for connection and meaning.

We delve into how these preferences illuminate our aspirations, fears, and personal development.

Creators & Guests

• (00:00) - TTTT Film

Do most straight men reserve their truest love and romance for other men? Marilyn Frye thinks so, and today we consider a quote from her classic book of feminist essays The Politics of Reality

We found ourselves in agreement with Frye's observations. But we debate and detail the angles: 

• Is heterosexual male culture (always) homoerotic?
• Do men save their 'best' for each other?
• Do many men find truer friendship with other men because they feel more comfortable around each other? Why?
• Is this a problem? How much so?
• Why would a man be 'less himself' around women? 
• Is this because a man might be capable of friendship with women, but change his behaviour around a woman he wants to sleep with?
• Maybe it's heterosexual people thinking of each other as alien species that causes the problem? 
• But does heterosexuality rely on just this, treating each other as alien and maintaining a sense of difference?
• Is there some anger, bitterness or frustration in the quote?
• Is the author a separatist feminist as Joe guessed? (Yes).
• What is romance anyway?
• Has the truth in this quote shifted over time?
• Is it also true about women and other women? And is it possible to judge those two realities by the same standard?
• Why are people on dating apps talking about polarity and being in their feminine energy? Do they just mean 'someone else sort everything out?'
• Are we at the point where we can begin to expect equal levels of maturity and responsibility from both men and women?

And if r/feminism is consulted, you will find much agreement there. As NoMommy- posted:

I want to be with someone who likes me. Likes talking to me, likes my sense of humor, likes hanging out with me. Someone who, even if we weren’t together/he wasn’t attracted to me, he would still want to hang out with me because he likes me as a person.

I want someone who shows affection and does nice things, not because he expects something in return, but because he wants to make me happy.

Is that too much to ask??? I say this to my friends who date and they’re all like, “fat fuckin chance,” “good luck with that.”

It’s just sad and frustrating

The Ten Thousand Things, well, Sam would like to say to you in reply "u/NoMommy- I get you, cos that's what I want also. No, it's not too much to ask. It's not easy to create this reality for ourselves, but many men do feel the same way. Maybe all humans feel the same way. We all want to be loved unconditionally, but we fear that any love we get is conditional, and pre-empt or retaliate. It's not impossible to create this better love with others, but we would have to start with the assumption that everyone has been hurt, and we ourselves are not necessarily easy to live with. And we all wonder if we can ever really be known by others, and still be loved. If we were known fully by someone, we may fear that we would not be loved.

Meanwhile, over at Good Men Project, Franklin Madison quotes Frye and issues a heartfelt appeal to men to have a high quality of friendship with men, but hold the same respect, acceptance and quality of friendship with women:

There, I said it. Live with it because you know as well as I do that’s the truth.

He also urges men to be comfortable with the touch of other men and not deny it to themselves on homophobic grounds. https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/non-toxic-masculinity-male-male-affection-friendship-lbkr/

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More about Frye:

After a bit more reading, I learned that Frye is a reference point for separatist feminists. As I understand it, separatist feminists are women who assert, with cause, that they should not put their energy, presence, love or even thoughts towards men. Men are not where they should invest energy of any kind, that they want to prioritise other women, particularly those who have been hurt, and particularly those hurt by men.

There is a long history of women doing it for themselves throughout recorded human existence, and earlier still. Among our primate relatives, Bonobo chimpanzees have a society that operates through female bonds, and men must cooperate in order to have any stake in it. While among other chimpanzees each troop has a dominant male who keeps harems. The only way to access reproduction is to sneak around or kill or drive off the other male. I think the better choice here is obvious.

Women often saw benefit or survival in in banding together: for safety, mutual aid, religion, and many other causes. Women have had to fend for themselves after abandonment, during peace and war, or after losing male family members to war, famine, disease, migration, economic collapse, husbands press ganged into the navy, or killed accidentally in work. As there are 'men going their own way' now, and perhaps there has always been. It seems in difficult times women support each other, and perhaps, so do men. But we also ...

Moving from Fear, to Joy of Missing Out and beyond both. 

FOMO arises from projection and fantasy, as does a lot of the imagined enjoyment of the imagined pleasures.

We might imagine that:

• everything we want is outside ourselves
• pleasure, meaning or peak experiences must be mediated by something: people, substances, or outside events
• that we have to follow a formula to achieve them

We chew over the classic cliche FOMO of music festivals, and unearth some insights: 

• the positives of turning towards your own priorities
• pursuing projects and personal growth brings the greater contentment
• 'projects over pleasures'
• the pursuit of meaningful experiences on your own terms or with people you care about
• sometimes the best music experience is going mental to a good tune where no-one can see

Joe contends that beyond FOMO and JOMO is the flow state:

• the real peak experiences of life often occur in the flow state
• which has little to do with glamorous activities or what we have been told to want

We touch on existentialism and some key FOMO psychology:

• humans struggle to reliably imagine their own future feelings
• to weigh the influence and impact of imagined events
• we struggle to accurately assess what others put on social media, obviously
• but this is also discomfort with our own choices
• we all carry the burden of choice, of what to value and pursue
• the existential problem of assigning meaning
• it's not easy figuring out what we really want
• it's difficult to imagine what will actually make us happy or bring contentment, and in a sense it's our life's work
• the choice to engage in fulfilling projects is seemingly more difficult and uncertain than reaching for known pleasures
• the boring thing is doing what we think we will be fun and assigning it a greater future value than it can carry
• the real boredom is not always in staying home and attending to our real priorities

We harangue Joe to turn towards something he gets a lot of meaning from, passages from spiritual books, and reflect on those in a new podcast series, which leads nicely to some useful concluding thoughts

• the value of following quiet passions
• the liberation found in chosen solitude
• encouragement to make conscious life choices aligning with true desires

Episode image courtesy of Craig. Check out his new blog, it's grouse https://wish-art.blog/

Creators & Guests

• (00:00) - TTTT fomo jomo

0:00 TTTT fomo jomo
00:14 Welcome and topic
00:33 Personal Stories of FOMO and JOMO
03:20 The Cultural Phenomenon of Music Festivals
05:58 Sobriety and Its Impact on Social Life
07:49 The Shift from FOMO to JOMO in Adulthood
07:59 Reality, Music Festivals, It's a Business
08:30 Interviews with musicians
19:28 Finding Joy in Simplicity and Creativity
24:42 The Real FOMO: Missing Out on Personal Passions
29:48 Embracing JOMO in Everyday Life
31:51 Rediscovering Simple Pleasures
32:13 The Pivot: From Boredom to Texture of Experience
32:30 Mediated Experiences vs. Reality
33:14 Body Acceptance and the Illusion of Projected Happiness
34:02 Music Festivals and the Pursuit of Authentic Joy
34:52 The Path of Personal Growth
36:19 Embracing Individuality and Comfort
48:41 Finding Meaning in Quiet Contemplation
51:01 Projects over pleasures - the origin of Joe's new podcast
53:43 Joe's new diet - and more origin for the new project
58:53 Balancing JOMO and FOMO
01:01:17 Concluding Thoughts on Personal Fulfillment

Is Attachment Theory the new Myers-Briggs? No
Is it helping? Yes! Is attachment also about friendship, family and self relationships? Yes!
Is it the magic bullet? Kind of, if you study Attachment Styles in depth, and do the work

It's The Dance of Attachment in Relationships!

In our return to podding for a new season, (sorry to disappear, reasons!!) we explore 

• the nuanced world of attachment styles 
• their profound influence on our relationships and self-awareness
• We delve into the complexities of understanding anxious, avoidant, secure, and disorganized attachment styles
• tracing their roots back to early childhood and examining their impact on our adult romantic relationships, friendships, and the way we view ourselves
• sharing personal stories and insights
• we discuss concepts and strategies for navigating and seeking secure attachments 
• in pursuit of fulfilling and healthy relationships we need:
  • setting and respecting healthy boundaries for ourselves and others
  • not to neglect our own needs
    • which includes attending to security within
    • being comfortable or tolerant of being alone with our own thoughts
    • personal purpose and meaning, and not to seek this from relationships alone
    • the distinction between being alone and feeling lonely
• and towards others:
  • open, non-judgemental communication
  • self-awareness
  • the delicate balance between independence and vulnerability
  • avoiding assumptions in communication and in interpreting the actions of others
  • the value of approaching life and relationships with openness and mindfulness

Yes it's all pointing towards the continuous process of personal growth and adaptation.

Mentions:
It was Tracy McMillan who wrote the blog Why You're Not Married https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-youre-not-married_b_822088
Warning: contains statements that will not be universally accepted, but some of her insights are worthwhile, based on three marriages, at the time. She talks a lot about attachment theory also https://www.instagram.com/tracymcmillan

Let's Get Vulnerable podcast: https://episodes.fm/1496034764
Dr Tracey Morgan has a particular style, which I enjoy, and will grow on you, because she really knows what her stuff and it comes from hard personal experience, struggle and finally breakthrough. Promotes a paid program for women, with occasional male participants.

Other excellent podcasts on attachment theory, by expert practitioners in the field:

On Attachment: Stephanie Rigg is a good local voice. She experienced anxious attachment all her life, and her partner avoidant, but they have worked it through. Stephanie has great insight and advice, and also offers courses and workshops

Trauma Free Relationship Tom Philip delivers very easy to follow theory and practice, bite size chunks, a nice-relaxed style informed by a long career in relationship counselling https://episodes.fm/1682090107

Trauma Rewired (season 3 is on relationships https://episodes.fm/1537602643

Episode cover art by Craig, https://wish-art.blog/
Music theme by Ehsan https://www.youtube.com/c/EhsanGelsi

Creators & Guests

• (00:00) - Attachment

0:00 Theme
00:12 Diving into Attachment Theory
00:29 Attachment Styles: The New Myers-Briggs?
01:05 Exploring Attachment Theory: Science and Personal Insights
03:14 Anxious Attachment: Texting, turning into Teen Wolf, and Drowning Metaphors
07:13 Disorganized Attachment: Navigating Dating and Self-Discovery
16:44 Beyond Romance: Attachment in Friendships, Family, Self-Care
40:04 Attachment Styles in Relationships
42:01 The Anxiety of Avoidant Attachment
42:48 Exploring Past Relationships and Attachment Dynamics
44:56 The Journey Towards Secure Attachment
01:00:25 The Importance of Self-Awareness and Vulnerability
01:08:32 Language of couples counselling
01:20:09 Concluding Thoughts on Attachment and Personal Growth

Study envy to find messages from our future selves

We unpack the role of envy, not as a toxic emotion to be avoided or ashamed of, but a normal feeling that gives us clues to understanding our unmet desires, unfulfilled potential, and prompting necessary change.

• envy vs jealousy. Jealousy is possessiveness, envy is wanting what others have, or wanting to be them
• becoming less envious of others as we get older
• the emptiness at the heart of existence remains in place no matter who we are or what we have
• house prices, salaries, wealth distribution
• complex, changing feelings, hiding then reveal the path to self-growth
• fitting in vs standing out
• being the object of envy
• being envious of contemporaries, such as friends, people we went to school or work with
• having envy towards our own partners
• bike shorts/yoga pants: acceptable clothing for everyone?
• getting beneath the surface of desire, wanting a greater sense of freedom
• gender and clothing: do women have greater freedom in terms of clothing?
• 'painful but necessary steps'
• Ali's dream of growing more of her own food
• self-envy, a 'better version of ourself' from the past
• Joe's epic case of personal envy towards a contemporary 
• therapy: like cleaning a mirror, with the image becoming clearer over time. 
• daily transformations that count towards personal growth
• the importance of casual conversations for therapeutic value

Creators & Guests

• (00:00) - Introduction and Welcome