The Trending Communicator

In this episode, Dan welcomes back legendary communicator, connector, and executive coach to the PR industry, Ken Jacobs, for his second appearance on the show. Back in January 2021, he and Dan talked about leadership and purpose in the agency world. Now, with the pandemic in the rearview, has widespread indecision and inconsistency around remote work, hybrid work, and RTO (Return to Office) changed the nature of leadership and management?

Ken and Dan dig into some of the changes we’ve seen over the past few years and try to find some answers. Ken walks us through the nuances of building a team in a remote setting and why managers still must be able to build and manage teams effectively. Remote working doesn’t seem like it’s going away anytime soon, even as some organizations push for a return to more traditional work settings. No matter what organizations are doing, though, the past few years have highlighted the importance of connection and connectedness for effective leadership - and we need a new playbook.

 In this episode, you will be able to:

• Uncover the ever-progressing dynamics of leadership within the context of the PR industry in a fluctuating global environment.
• Navigate the ins and outs of remote work and running teams virtually in a post-pandemic world.
• Find the balance between granting autonomy, instilling trust, and avoiding micromanagement in a team-centric setting.
• Gain insight into the pivotal role of AI and other groundbreaking technologies in reshaping the PR industry.
• Appreciate why adopting a learning attitude and making learning a lifetime habit stands as a key cornerstone of successful leadership.

Notable Quotes:

• “I think this whole notion of connecting more and wanting to connect more and wanting more time together is partly due to the lockdown and also, they want to spend time with people who are natural connectors.” – (3:17), Ken
• “Coaching isn’t what we do; it’s who we are.” – (5:46), Ken
• “Make your office a magnet, not a mandate.” – (16:00), Ken
• “It (remote working for PR) can be done. Can it be done better working together? Probably” – (18:58), Ken
• “Is the team really a team if they’re not together?” – (22:24), Dan
• “Every time you say it’s hard for me or I’m not good at, add the word … now.” – (30:30), Ken
• “You don’t have to be a neuroscientist to use the neuroscience.” – (31:40), Ken
• “When we say I wonder how that would feel, we actually start to feel it.” – (34:21), Ken
• “We don’t realize it but many people who work for us, our followers, have a vision.” – (36:20), Ken
• “It feels like the need for certain leadership attributes are on steroids.” – (41:05), Ken
• “You’ve got to act in a trustworthy manner no matter the consequences.” – (42:23), Ken
• “When you look at your past be very mindful to not judge yourself too harshly.” – (46:40), Ken
• “It’s really important that you’re nurturing and not micromanaging.”  (51:31), Ken
• “One thing AI cannot do is mimic or replace emotional intelligence and empathy and trust.” – (1:01:13), Dan
• “This notion of lifetime learning is absolutely critical.” – (1:04:55), Ken

About Ken Jacobs

Ken Jacobs is the principal of Jacobs Consulting & Executive Coaching, leveraging his expertise for over a decade to bolster agency growth, client relations, and staff performance. A recognized coach and consultant, Ken holds PCC credentials from the International Coach Federation and additional accreditations from iPEC, including CPC, ELI Master Practitioner, and CLDS. His rich experience encompasses collaborations with top-tier communications agencies such as Catalyst, Coyne Public Relations, and M Booth, to name a few. Before founding his firm, Jacobs dedicated 25 years to leadership roles in renowned PR agencies, notably spearheading the award-winning "MMC Masters" training program at Marina Maher Communications. Beyond his consulting, Ken shares insights in his "Taking The Lead" column for PRSA's Strategies and Tactics. An alumnus of Syracuse University's S.I. Newhouse School, he's also an honored member of PRSA, and a Senior Counselor to Prosper Group.

Ken Jacobs Links

• Jacobs Consulting and Executive Coaching

Dan Nestle Links

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)

The key moments in this episode are:

00:00:00 - Introduction, 

00:01:48 - Connecting with Natural Connectors, 

00:06:07 - Coaching During the Pandemic, 

00:10:12 - Accelerated Change and Returning to the Office, 

00:13:32 - In-Person Energy and Coordination, 

00:15:56 - The Importance of Making the Office a Magnet, not a Mandate, 

00:16:42 - Challenges of Remote Work and Real Estate, 

00:18:30 - The Value of In-Person Collaboration, 

00:19:51 - Leadership in a Remote Work Environment, 

00:25:34 - Expectations Gap and Hiring Talent, 

00:33:02 - The Relief of a Fresh Perspective, 

00:34:16 - Customizing Leadership Styles, 

00:36:11 - Building Trust and Connection, 

00:42:58 - The Challenges of Virtual Leadership, 

00:50:40 - The Importance of Nurturing Relationships in a Remote Work Environment, 

00:53:19 - Setting Clear Expectations and Deadlines, 

00:56:25 - Embracing AI and the Importance of Integration, 

01:00:50 - Approaching AI with a Growth Mindset, 

01:04:51 - The Importance of Lifetime Learning and Staying Relevant, 

01:07:29 - Learning About AI, 

01:08:12 - The Future of AI, 

01:08:59 - Pivotal Person in Life, 

01:10:49 - LinkedIn as the Platform of Choice, 

01:14:35 - LinkedIn Fails and Harassment

Timestamped summary of this episode, courtesy of Capsho:

00:00:00 - Introduction, 

Dan Nestle introduces the podcast episode and welcomes back Ken Jacobs, a former PR agency executive and leadership expert. They discuss the importance of pivotal moments and the role of people in those moments.

00:01:48 - Connecting with Natural Connectors, 

Ken Jacobs talks about the desire to connect more with people who are natural connectors and how it transcends age. He emphasizes the importance of helping one another and how the lockdown during the pandemic accelerated the need for connection.

00:06:07 - Coaching During the Pandemic, 

Ken Jacobs shares his experience as a coach during the pandemic and how he continued coaching even when clients couldn't pay. He highlights the importance of purpose-driven work and how emotional intelligence and empathy helped people thrive during challenging times.

00:10:12 - Accelerated Change and Returning to the Office, 

The conversation shifts to the accelerated change brought on by the pandemic and the impact on work culture. They discuss the mixed approach of remote and in-office work and the need to reevaluate the purpose of going to the office. Ken emphasizes the importance of using in-person time effectively.

00:13:32 - In-Person Energy and Coordination, 

Ken and Dan discuss the energy that comes from in-person interactions and the need to find a balance between remote and in-office work. They highlight the importance of coordinating in-person time to brainstorm and collaborate effectively.

00:15:56 - The Importance of Making the Office a Magnet, not a Mandate, 

Ken Jacobs emphasizes the need for companies to give employees a reason to come back to the office beyond just basic perks like Taco Tuesday. Making the office a place for collaboration and idea generation is crucial, but it must be done in a way that respects individual preferences and safety concerns.

00:16:42 - Challenges of Remote Work and Real Estate, 

Many companies had to downsize their office spaces during the pandemic due to financial constraints. However, finding the right balance of remote work and in-person collaboration remains a challenge. Different industries and organizations have unique needs and must determine what approach works best for them.

00:18:30 - The Value of In-Person Collaboration, 

In agencies, where brainstorming and collaboration are vital, being physically present can enhance creativity and energy. While virtual collaboration is possible, the magic often happens when diverse teams come together in person. However, organizations must be mindful of including remote team members to ensure everyone feels connected.

00:19:51 - Leadership in a Remote Work Environment, 

Great leaders must be empathetic, good listeners, and understand that it is impossible to please everyone. Balancing the needs and preferences of team members who want to work remotely or in the office requires careful consideration. Dialing up empathy and seeking feedback from employees are essential for effective leadership.

00:25:34 - Expectations Gap and Hiring Talent, 

The expectations gap between agencies and employees spread across different locations has grown

00:33:02 - The Relief of a Fresh Perspective, 

The conversation explores the feeling of relief and a breath of fresh air that comes with challenging preconceived notions and adopting a learner's mindset in leadership. It emphasizes the importance of self-growth and highlights the motivation that comes from imagining how achieving new perspectives and growth would feel.

00:34:16 - Customizing Leadership Styles, 

The discussion delves into the significance of customizing leadership styles for each team member. It emphasizes the importance of understanding their values, vision, and learning styles to create alignment and motivation within the team. Taking the time to think about individual team members before interactions can greatly impact their engagement and fulfillment.

00:36:11 - Building Trust and Connection, 

The conversation emphasizes the need for leaders to build trust and connection with their team members. This involves understanding their values, vision, and role in achieving the group's goals. By creating alignment between the organization's values, the leader's values, and the individual team members' values, leaders can foster a sense of belonging and fulfillment in their team.

00:42:58 - The Challenges of Virtual Leadership, 

The discussion explores the challenges of building relationships and trust in a virtual work environment. It highlights the need for leaders to demonstrate courage, bravery, and trustworthiness, as well as to act as a source of stability and certainty during uncertain times. The importance of leading with empathy, emotional intelligence, and trust is emphasized, particularly in an unpredictable world.

00:50:40 - The Importance of Nurturing Relationships in a Remote Work Environment, 

In a remote work environment, leaders need to be proactive in nurturing relationships to prevent complacency and maintain strong bonds within the team. Building trust and rapport is crucial, and leaders should focus on nurturing rather than micromanaging their employees.

00:53:19 - Setting Clear Expectations and Deadlines, 

Leaders should have open and honest conversations with their team members about assignments, deadlines, and expectations. It is important to establish a contract where both parties agree on what success looks like and communicate any challenges or struggles early on.

00:56:25 - Embracing AI and the Importance of Integration, 

AI is becoming increasingly important in the PR industry, and leaders should embrace it as a tool to enhance their work rather than fear it. Integration is also crucial, as PR professionals should explore how different channels and platforms can work together to maximize impact.

01:00:50 - Approaching AI with a Growth Mindset, 

Instead of approaching AI with fear, leaders should have a growth mindset and view it as an opportunity to learn and improve their practice. AI can automate certain tasks, allowing professionals to focus on higher-value work and think of new ways to contribute.

01:04:51 - The Importance of Lifetime Learning and Staying Relevant, 

Staying relevant in any field requires a commitment to lifetime learning. Professionals should continuously seek to expand their knowledge and skills to adapt to changing technologies and industry trends. Relevance is key to

01:07:29 - Learning About AI, 

The guest expresses fascination with AI and how it can lead to deep exploration and questioning of what is true. They also express nervousness about being asked about their use of AI in their coaching practice in the future.

01:08:12 - The Future of AI, 

The guest speculates about the possibility of speaking with an AI-generated simulacrum of the host in the future. They express their love for having conversations like these and the importance of maintaining a learner's mindset.

01:08:59 - Pivotal Person in Life, 

The host expresses gratitude for the guest being a pivotal person in their life and discusses the importance of maintaining a learner's mindset as they move forward. They provide information on how to find the guest on LinkedIn and their website.

01:10:49 - LinkedIn as the Platform of Choice, 

The guest discusses their decreased activity on Twitter and their preference for LinkedIn as a platform for professionals to connect. They also mention the annoyance of receiving LinkedIn messages from non-certified coaches.

01:14:35 - LinkedIn Fails and Harassment, 

The host and guest discuss the humor in sharing LinkedIn fails and their experiences with fake profiles and spam messages. They acknowledge the entertainment value but also express frustration with the harassment.

*Notes were created by humans, with help from Capsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode, Dan welcomes translation and localization expert Bill Lafferty, the founder of Loc Navigator, a resource-rich newsletter that helps readers understand translation and localization as drivers of business growth. An accomplished Japanese-to-English legal translator, enterprise localization project leader, and localization technology consultant, Bill has lived at the intersection of technology and translation for nearly three decades. And full disclosure: he’s been one of Dan’s best friends for over 25 years, so he knows…quite a lot about the host of the show.

He and Dan reminisce a bit and then dig into the evolution of translation and localization and the proliferation of technology in the field. Perhaps more than any other profession, translators have had to deal with ever-improving AI tools, and adaptation and skill enhancement have been par for the course. Now, with ChatGPT and LLMs performing better translations than any previous disruptive development, will translators survive? 

Find out as Bill and Dan uncover some of the misconceptions about where AI is taking the translation profession - and by extension, other language-intensive jobs. In this episode:

• Delve into the crucial role localization has in enhancing global business performance.
• Understand the influence human proficiency has on the nuance-rich translation industry.
• Scrutinize the landscape of the translation field in the new age of AI and machine translation.
• Ascertain the advantages and pitfalls of forging a career path in translation and localization.
• Embrace the importance of fostering continuous learning in the dynamic tech-driven world.

Listen in and hear…

• All about the world of translation
• The concept of localization of languages
• Perceptions about Google Translate
• Human-oriented tasks in translation
• What makes Bill so interested in language translation 
• The beauty of the Japanese language
• The intersection of software and local translation
• Legal translation and the room for growth 
• Where machine translation fails 
• ChatGPT and how it is impacting translation
• Neuro-machine translations, usages, and limitations
• On-the-fly speech translation and pixelation
• The difference between localization and translation
• Understanding taxonomy and how it plays within your business 
• The Block Chain and opportunities it brings
• How AI helps increase the capacity and quality of communications

Notable Quotes:

• “A lot of language learning comes from an openness to rhythm and sound.” – (12:49), Bill
• “There’s different levels to feeling accomplished when speaking a second language.” – (17:11), Bill
• “It was more important for me at the right age to make this really big career change into something different because I felt life would be a little less heavy.” – (20:07), Bill
• “Savvy, freelance translators are learning to use these technologies and harness them and use them as accelerators.” – (30:28), Bill
• “Low level jobs that would’ve been steps along the way are not exactly necessary anymore.” – (33:58), Dan
• “The amount of words being created everyday is just incredible.” – (35:58), Bill 
• “New tools require new operators.” – (36:28), Dan
• “Localization is one of the key drivers for global growth for any business.” – (51:03), Bill 
• “Translation is an industry that has always been shaped by infusions of technology.” – (57:23), Bill
• “Making something less complex is a huge value-add in this economy right now.” – (1:00:18), Bill
• “The better you can be at helping your customers or stakeholders to escape complexity, the more they’re going to thank you.” – (1:00:32), Bill
• “In my opinion ChatGPT promotes better mental health.” – (1:02:26), Bill
• “For freelance translators, don’t let all this noise about technology be something that is going to derail your career. Do what you love.” – (1:12:33), Bill

Dan Nestle Links

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)

Bill Lafferty Links

• Loc Navigator

Timestamped summary of this episode, courtesy of Capsho:

00:00:00 - Introduction, Dan introduces the podcast and his guest, Bill Lafferty, who has a long career in translation and localization. They discuss the importance of translation in today's global economy. 00:02:37 - The Perception of Translation, Dan and Bill talk about the misconception that translation is a commoditized service and the challenge of overcoming this perception. They highlight the need for human-oriented tasks in translation and the importance of delivering translations that feel natural to the target audience. 00:06:09 - The Commoditization of Translation, Bill discusses the commoditization of the translation industry and the long tail of language service providers. He emphasizes the importance of understanding clients' goals and finding solutions that fit their budget. 00:07:52 - AI and Translation, Dan and Bill touch on the advancements in AI and its impact on the translation industry. They discuss the complexities of translating multiple languages and character sets, and how translation has been grappling with these challenges for a long time. 00:11:02 - Bill's Journey in Translation, Bill shares his journey in translation, from studying Japanese in college to being enchanted by the language. He discusses his experience as a legal translator and the rewards of learning to read Japanese at a high level. 00:15:13 - The Meticulousness of Translation, The guest discusses the meticulous nature of translation, where one stroke or change in a character can completely change the meaning. They also highlight the challenge of finding the opposite meaning from the same character given a different conjugation. 00:15:50 - Curiosity and Connection, The guest emphasizes the importance of curiosity and an innate sense of curiosity in learning a second language. They also express the desire to reach out and connect with others through language. 00:16:26 - Shades of Meaning in Japanese, The guest compares languages like Japanese and Chinese to Romance languages, highlighting the complexity and multiple shades of meaning in characters. They discuss the challenge of translating legal contracts and documents from English to Japanese. 00:18:20 - Missing the Social Dynamic, The guest shares their reason for stopping their translation career, expressing a desire for more socialization and connection with people. They enjoy talking and developing relationships, which led them to their current role in sales and client development. 00:19:47 - The Desire for Hands-On Translation, The guest expresses a desire to return to translation and be hands-on, as they enjoy diving in and being tactile. They mention the possibility of translating short stories or engaging in more creative translation in the future. 00:30:57 - Impact of Technology on Solopreneurs and Small Business Owners, Technology advancements like Chat GPT can disrupt industries, potentially putting solopreneurs and small business owners out of business or forcing them onto new career paths. 00:32:21 - Disruption in the Creative World, The creative world, including industries like copywriting, marketing consulting, and translation, is experiencing disruption as technology continues to advance. Jobs that were once necessary may become obsolete as AI tools like Chat GPT become more sophisticated. 00:34:15 - The Role of Supervised Learning and Machine Translation, In machine translation, there is a distinction between supervised learning and unsupervised learning. While Chat GPT goes through a filtration process, unsupervised machine translation can still be improved with technology advancements like neural machine translation. 00:35:33 - Balancing Machine Translation and Human Translation, When expanding into new markets, companies must consider the balance between using machine translation and human translation. While machine translation may be budget-friendly, it's important to ensure that the first impression of a product or brand is accurate and well-translated. 00:38:43 - New Skills and Opportunities, The introduction of AI tools like Chat GPT creates new opportunities for those who possess skills in manipulating and guiding these tools. Curiosity and a command of language are valuable assets in utilizing AI for oneself or clients. 00:46:38 - The Potential of Machine Translation, The guest discusses the potential of machine translation, mentioning the possibility of real-time translation and the ability to overlay mouth movements in different languages. However, he notes that the marriage of technology and translation is still not fully developed. 00:47:56 - The Advancements in Machine Translation, The guest acknowledges that developments in machine translation are already happening, citing examples such as instant translation on LinkedIn. He emphasizes that while machine translation has improved, it still comes with certain limitations and caveats. 00:49:49 - Localization vs. Translation, The host and guest discuss localization, highlighting its importance in global business growth. They explain that localization goes beyond translation as it involves adapting content to different languages, cultures, and markets. They note that localization should be considered early on in the development process. 00:51:18 - Historical Challenges in Localization, The guest explains that the historical paradigm of starting in a single market and expanding later has led to localization being an afterthought for many businesses. However, he mentions that forward-thinking companies are now incorporating localization into their product development from the beginning. 00:56:21 - The Future of Localization, The guest sees a positive future for localization, as technology continues to advance and automation becomes more desired. However, he highlights the need for strategic consulting and human involvement to ensure accurate and effective localization. The challenges ahead include keeping up with evolving technology and untangling the complexities of AI in localization workflows. 01:02:41 - Promoting Better Mental Health, The conversation starts with both Dan and Bill sharing their experiences of unhappiness in various positions throughout their careers. They discuss how using Chat GPT has helped them explore new ideas and perspectives, leading to a sense of fulfillment and better mental health. 01:03:26 - Empowering Website Development, Bill shares a specific example of how Chat GPT helped him enhance his website, Loknavigator.com. He explains how he was able to program interactive tiles and generate personalized suggestions based on user inputs. This experience opened his mind to new possibilities and boosted his confidence in web development. 01:04:51 - Chat GPT for Code Generation, The conversation highlights the effectiveness of Chat GPT in generating code snippets. Bill mentions that he used Chat GPT to find the snippets of code he needed to improve his website's functionality. They discuss the power of AI in code generation and its potential for improving workflow efficiency. 01:06:11 - Mindset Shifts and Pivoting, Dan and Bill discuss how using Chat GPT has helped them shift their mindsets and approach tasks and projects from new perspectives. They also mention the importance of having someone to bounce ideas off and validate their thinking. Chat GPT serves as a helpful tool in moments of panic or uncertainty. 01:09:12 - Overcoming Learning Hurdles, The conversation emphasizes how Chat GPT accelerates the learning process and helps overcome learning hurdles. Bill shares his personal accomplishment in using Chat GPT.

*Notes were created by humans, with help from Capsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode, Dan connects with career strategist, ex-recruiter, host of the Career Blast in a Half podcast, and President of Portfoliorocket.com,  Loren Greiff. A career trailblazer in her own right who rose to the highest levels of ad agency leadership before embarking on a second career in recruiting and career management, Loren experienced the recruiting world from all angles - and concluded that the current model is fundamentally broken, somewhat inhuman, and rigged against job seekers. To fix it, she founded Portfolio Rocket - a career curriculum that uses a radical approach to helping professionals level up their careers and discover how to uncover the hidden job market.

She and Dan dig deep into the challenges facing job seekers; the almost criminal lack of career education and the resulting reactive, shallow approach to career management; the importance of mindset and of exploring your “why;” and much more. There’s something in this episode for anyone who has ever had to manage their career (which means pretty much everyone).

Listen in and hear…

• Fatal flaws that today’s recruiters are making and how to overcome them.
• The potentially dangerous impact of living an unfulfilled professional life. 
• The professional lightbulb moment that sparked something in Loren.
• Where the recruiting industry gets it all wrong and how you can get it right. 
• Why job searching is actually a life skill. 
• The importance of embracing the gift of desperation. 
• Why job seekers don’t have to start their search from scratch.
• The trickle-down impact of an executive departure.
• The debilitating concept of “Landline Thinking.”
• The length of time your resume warrants and how to overcome it.
• Why your resume is only a piece of your job-seeking arsenal. 
• The new, revolutionary mindset that every job seeker must have.
• Problem-solving and alignment with the needs of potential employers. 
• Understanding your professional why.
• The Coffee Strategy and the Essence of the Hidden Job Market. 

Notable Quotes:

• “I’m very much the challenger, I’m very much the person that’s seeking to find the information, I also can be the informant.” – (6:20) - Loren
• “Our careers, they don’t live in some compartment. They run alongside you as your partner in your professional life.” – (8:47) - Loren
• “Career management should be a skill set.” (26:22) - Dan
• “Robots might take your job, so now is a great time to start thinking about the skill set you need to manage your career.” – (33:50) – Dan
• “Please stop asking yourself, ‘what do I want to do next?’ and replace it with ‘what problems do I love to solve?’” – (38:27) – Loren 
• “Networking is always about the quality.” – (55:58) – Loren 
• “What keeps me up at night is the unbelievable roadblocks that come in so many mental formats.” – (1:10:22) - Loren

Loren Greiff’s Links

• Loren Greiff – Linkedin
• Portfolio Rocket
• Career Blast in a Half Podcast

Dan Nestle’s Links

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) | Twitter

Key episode highlights (courtesy of Capsho):

00:00:00 - Introduction to the Dan Nestle Show, 00:03:02 - The Power of Genuine Connections, 00:05:58 - Loren Greiff's Journey, 00:09:30 - The Disconnection Between Job and Personal Life, 00:13:57 - Finding Success in Recruiting, 00:16:08 - Making a Career Change, 00:19:04 - A Crisis of Integrity, 00:21:04 - The Challenges of Recruitment, 00:23:25 - The Sad Reality of the System, 00:28:12 - Embracing Change, 00:33:35 - Rapid Technological Changes and Career Implications, 00:35:16 - The Problem with Landline Thinking, 00:38:00 - Shifting Mindset and Identifying Problems, 00:40:51 - Reconnecting with Purpose, 00:46:32 - Niche and Career Management, 00:49:52 - Optimizing Your LinkedIn Profile, 00:51:59 - Building a Pipeline of Networking Conversations, 00:52:58 - Treating Your Career Like Your Health, 00:54:32 - Quality Networking vs. Superficial Connections, 01:00:38 - The Hidden Job Market & Creating Opportunities, 01:07:17 - Lively and Spicy Conversation, 01:08:13 - Embracing Change in Your Career, 01:09:31 - Balancing Curiosity and Focus, 01:10:31 - Roadblocks to Career Success, 01:13:26 - Portfolio Rocket and Career Management

Timestamped summary of this episode (courtesy of Capsho):

00:00:00 - Introduction to the Dan Nestle Show, 

Dan Nestle introduces the podcast and his guest, Loren Greiff. He highlights the importance of finding meaningful opportunities in the world of work and teases the unique approach Loren has taken to help executives and senior leaders discover hidden job opportunities.

00:03:02 - The Power of Genuine Connections, 

Dan and Loren discuss the narrow approach people often take when it comes to career and job searches. They emphasize the importance of making genuine connections and tapping into the secret job market to find careers that truly light people up.

00:05:58 - Loren Greiff's Journey, 

Loren shares her journey from being a marketer in New York City to transitioning to a client-side role in Chicago. She talks about the challenges she faced and how she eventually found her calling in recruiting. Her experience with anxiety and burnout led her to a path of helping others navigate their careers.

00:09:30 - The Disconnection Between Job and Personal Life, 

Loren reflects on her experience working in financial services and the disconnect she felt between her job and personal life. She emphasizes the importance of aligning career choices with personal priorities and needs.

00:13:57 - Finding Success in Recruiting, 

Loren discusses her transition into the recruiting field and how she excelled in sourcing and understanding the needs of creative professionals. She shares her passion for reading through job descriptions and helping companies find the right candidates.

00:16:08 - Making a Career Change, 

The guest describes her decision to leave her high-level role in finance and pursue a career in recruitment without much deliberation. She felt a level of certainty and alignment in her decision and enjoyed the work for a long time.

00:19:04 - A Crisis of Integrity, 

The guest shares her realization that she was out of integrity with the recruitment industry. She didn't feel morally or ethically at peace with the way the system worked, especially when it came to the overflow of candidates who didn't get the job.

00:21:04 - The Challenges of Recruitment, 

The guest discusses the challenges of being a recruiter, particularly the pressure to find the right candidates for clients and the lack of support for candidates who don't get the job. She expresses her concern about not having a solution for these candidates and not wanting to breed dependency on her.

00:23:25 - The Sad Reality of the System, 

The guest and the host share their frustrations with the recruitment system, where candidates who can't get a job through the system are often overlooked and not given another chance. They highlight the importance of teaching people the skills needed for a successful job search.

00:28:12 - Embracing Change, 

The guest reflects on her decision to leave the industry and emphasizes the importance of reaching a point where you understand that no one else will save you or change the situation for you. She encourages listeners to embrace the gift of desperation and take control of their own careers

00:33:35 - Rapid Technological Changes and Career Implications, 

The guest discusses how rapid technological changes, like the development of Chat GPT, can disrupt careers at all levels. She emphasizes the need to adapt and acquire skills that are either robot-proof or enable individuals to work alongside robots.

00:35:16 - The Problem with Landline Thinking, 

The guest introduces the concept of "landline thinking" and compares it to using a landline phone in today's mobile and connected world. She highlights how traditional approaches to job searching, like relying solely on resumes, may no longer be effective.

00:38:00 - Shifting Mindset and Identifying Problems, 

The guest advises against asking oneself, "What do I want to do next?" and encourages focusing on the problems one loves to solve instead. By identifying their contribution and impact, individuals can align their skills and interests with organizations that need their problem-solving abilities.

00:40:51 - Reconnecting with Purpose, 

Loren emphasizes the importance of reconnecting with one's why and using a simple formula: contribution + impact. She suggests revisiting one's purpose every six months to ensure it still aligns with personal values and passions.

00:46:32 - Niche and Career Management, 

The guest discusses the concept of finding a niche in one's career and how it relates to career management. She highlights the importance of identifying a target audience and catering to their specific needs and desires, especially for individuals looking to make a significant career change.

00:49:52 - Optimizing Your LinkedIn Profile, 

Loren discusses the importance of using LinkedIn as a landing page that converts and drives activity. She emphasizes the need to network and move online connections offline, sharing her "coffee strategy" of scheduling two networking calls per day, resulting in 40 connections each month.

00:51:59 - Building a Pipeline of Networking Conversations, 

Loren explains how consistent networking leads to a pipeline of conversations, highlighting that one out of every 15 referrals lands a job. She emphasizes the importance of quality over quantity and recommends coming prepared with three referrals for each networking call.

00:52:58 - Treating Your Career Like Your Health, 

Loren compares treating one's career to maintaining good health, emphasizing the need for consistency and taking proactive steps. She highlights the importance of networking even when not actively job searching, and encourages reaching out to old contacts and making genuine connections.

00:54:32 - Quality Networking vs. Superficial Connections, 

Loren discusses the difference between simply connecting with people on LinkedIn and building genuine connections. She emphasizes the need to invest time and effort in getting to know individuals before asking for favors or opportunities.

01:00:38 - The Hidden Job Market & Creating Opportunities, 

Loren explains that the hidden job market extends beyond unposted positions and includes creating or augmenting roles. She emphasizes the value of understanding a company's needs and offering unique solutions. She also highlights the importance of making relevant and genuine requests when reaching out to potential connections on LinkedIn.

01:07:17 - Lively and Spicy Conversation, 

The conversation on the podcast is described as lively and spicy. Swearing is allowed to keep listeners engaged. The focus is on debunking faulty beliefs and staying up to date with the ever-changing landscape.

01:08:13 - Embracing Change in Your Career, 

Mark Herschberg's "career toolkit" concept is mentioned, highlighting the importance of embracing change and being a futurist in one's career. Reading and staying informed are emphasized as ways to explore new opportunities and expand one's skill set.

01:09:31 - Balancing Curiosity and Focus, 

The speaker discusses the risk of being distracted by bright shiny objects and emphasizes the need to find a balance between exploring new interests and staying focused on one's current job. Personal experience and curiosity play a role in shaping one's career path.

01:10:31 - Roadblocks to Career Success, 

The main challenge mentioned is the roadblocks that hinder career progress, such as fear, imposter syndrome, and other mental barriers. Overcoming these obstacles requires transparency, support from others, and a flexible learning mindset.

01:13:26 - Portfolio Rocket and Career Management, 

The guest, Loren Greiff, introduces Portfolio Rocket as a solution for career management and highlights its focus on building a supportive community. The importance of mindset and owning one's career management is emphasized.

*Notes were created by humans, with help from Capsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode, Dan connects with retired Navy officer, legendary communicator, speaker, leadership strategist, and coach David Albritton. The founder and CEO of Nineteen88 Strategies, David cut his PR and communications chops at the Pentagon and followed a career track that led to his role as Chief Communications Officer at Exelis. That would have been the career-high mark for most communicators, but not for David. From the pinnacle of the comms world, he made that rare, perhaps unique, jump to running an entire enterprise, ultimately becoming the President of General Motors Defense. Through it all, he saw the value of coaching and mentoring in his life and decided to dedicate his third - and current - career to helping others realize the same. 

How did he (and how does he) do it? How do you make the journey from being the PR guy to running a multi-billion-dollar business? Maybe it’s how he fostered a learning mindset. Perhaps it’s how he recognized when it’s important to embrace change. Or it could be that a "Learn-or-Die" mantra is a prerequisite for success. He and Dan explore these and many more lessons from David’s career to find some answers. 

Listen in and learn …

• Why communications professionals need to develop business acumen
• The dynamic nature of communications professionals’ role and the significance of continuous learning and growth. 
• The value of mentorship from a personal and professional perspective.
• The difference between a small “m” mentor and a large “M” mentor.
• How the universe recognizes your mentoring efforts and will reward you accordingly.
• The role of your worst day and how it can be used to push you forward. 
• The importance of respecting the expertise of others. 
• The Hole in Your Swing Philosophy and why it’s important to address it.
• Why leaders understand the value of surrounding themselves with smart people. 
• That sometimes people can see the leader in you before you can see the leader in yourself. 
• Coaching is a safe place and there is a difference between coaching and mentoring. 
• The game-changing aspects of coaching on a personal and corporate level. 
• Some of the amazing resources David used to fuel his growth including, “Business Acumen for Strategic Communicators” by Ron Culp and Matthew W. Ragas. 

Notable Quotes:

• “There have been so many people who have mentored me and didn’t even know it.” (4:56) – David
• “I’m truly one that believes you can get through this life journey alone.” – (5:43) – David
• “Believing in others and their ability to help you and your ability to help them is what makes us human.” – (7:30)
• “There’s a whole lot of goodness in this country that we don’t get to see through the media all the time.” (10:06) – David
• “What is the story of David Albritton?” – (12:55) – Dan
• “You can’t be a good leader until you’ve learned how to be a good follower.” – (14:33) – David
• “A soldier is trained to carry a rifle to fight wars and all those types of things. They’re not trained to move a family with a baby that needs diapers and blankets.” – (34:14) – David
• “I never believed that by myself I was smart enough to do anything.” – (39:48) – David
• “PR isn’t an exact science.” – (40:23) – David
• “I realized that I couldn’t just be a communications person. I had to become more of a business partner.” – (40:54) – David
• “Just because you have title does not mean you know.” – (44:24) – David
• “Communications gives us (communicators) license to try and learn everything.” (47:31) -Dan
• “Then I had a huge left hook thrown at me that knocked me on my butt.” – (56:00) – David
• “I realized that if I could become a coach and get paid to be a coach, I never have to retire.” – (1:00:22) – David
• “We all deal with change differently.” – (1:03:40) – David
• “The job of a coach is to look into your future.” – (1:08:22) – David
• “It’s not so much about who you know but who knows you.” (1:13:07) – David
• “Go into every situation as prepared as you can be.” (1:14:22) – David
• “Ask smart questions to people when you don’t know things.” – (1:18:32) – David
• “You have to be known because you are contributing.” – (1:20:27) – Dan
• “People will stay with you if they feel like they have the opportunity to grow.” – (1:26:39) -David

About David J. Albritton, ACC

David Albritton, Founder and CEO of Nineteen88 Strategies, is an accomplished ICF-certified executive coach and business leader with over 30 years of diverse leadership experience spanning corporate, nonprofit, and military sectors. From his unique transition as a Chief Communications Officer to a business division chief executive of a Fortune 25 company, to his current role on the board of NASDAQ-listed Embecta Corp., Albritton exemplifies career versatility. His extensive roles, including President at General Motors Defense and VP Communications roles at Amazon Web Services, Exelis, ITT Defense, and United Way of America, reflect his expertise. As a seasoned executive coach, Albritton employs a holistic and authentic coaching framework to empower high-performing executives. His passion lies in enhancing leadership presence, personal branding, and emotional intelligence among others. He is also a Service-Disabled Veteran with degrees from the U.S. Naval Academy, Naval Postgraduate School, and executive education from top universities including Harvard, Stanford, and Wharton.

• Nineteen88 Strategies
• David Albritton | Linkedin

Dan Nestle Links

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle on Twitter

Timestamped Summary

• Introduction to today’s guest. 0:00
• David’s introduction. 1:49
• Putting positivity out into the universe. 6:22
• How did you get to the mindset you have? 11:49
• The mindset of a public relations professional. 17:57
• Learning to be a media communicator. 25:09
• Rising through the ranks of the military. 29:38
• Dealing with the perceptions of the military. 37:22
• The common theme of leaders who are not the smartest. 44:48
• Becoming a CCO at Exelis. 48:52
• The importance of having the right talent. 53:09
• Understanding your why and your purpose. 57:40
• Being directive as a mentor. 1:02:06
• Coaching is about helping people. 1:07:04
• The importance of being prepared for every meeting. 1:11:49
• The crux of it all. 1:18:56
• David’s advice for leaders. 1:23:48
• David’s work with veterans and charitable orgs. 1:27:52

*Notes were created by humans, with some help from Capsho and Otter.ai. 

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode, Dan connects with Wall Street Journal bestselling author Steven Mark Kahan to discuss his latest book, High-Velocity Digital Marketing. An all-around digital marketing legend, during his career as CMO of several Silicon Valley startups, Steve helped engineer seven successful exits that generated an astounding $5 billion in shareholder value. He and Dan talk about how he managed to make it all happen - and it turns out, it’s all about having the right plan. 

Of course, the right plan is very, very thorough. Luckily, Steve (and his book) deliver exactly that. Over the course of their discussion, Dan and Steve take a deep dive into the elements of marketing, the importance of content, and just how critical it is to identify your audience correctly and speak to them in a way that resonates. 

Listen in and...

• Discover powerful digital marketing techniques to skyrocket your online presence.
• Uncover the significance of grasping buyer personas for targeted campaigns.
• Explore the crucial role of consistent content creation in engaging customers.
• Learn the importance of data-driven marketing and evaluating success.
• Gain insights on choosing the best partners and agencies to boost your marketing efforts.

Notable Quotes:

• “I found that the traditional path from school to climbing the corporate ladder at least for me, could not only be high-risk for my career, it could almost feel like a death trap.” – (2:59) - Steve
• “I asked myself a really important question and that question was, how can I earn a great living doing what I love?” – (4:14) – Steve
• “I’ve learned how to spot a startup that has a good chance for success versus one that doesn’t.” – (6:47) – Steve
• ”I’m never concerned when I see that there’s big competition in the market. I’m always concerned when I see that there’s next to no competition in the market.” – (9:26) – Steve
• “You want to go to work everyday with a passion for the products the company creates as well as your role in creating it.” – (9:56) – Steve
• “I wouldn’t want to take a job if I didn’t align with the values of the company.” – (11:33) – Dan
• “You don’t often lose business to a competitor as much as you lose it to the status quo.” – (25:33) - Steve
• “Never assume that the benefits a customer expresses, equates to impact.” – (31:28) – Steve
• “So many organizations don’t train their sales or their partners on every single piece of content that they have.” - (42:54) – Steve
• “You need to turn your website into a lead magnet.” – (54:40) – Steve
• “If you get that content right and that is a big chunk of the battle.” – (1:11:00) – Steve 

Key Moments:

00:00:00 - Introduction,

00:05:05 - Choosing a Startup,

00:12:33 - Importance of Stock Options,

00:17:23 - Digital Marketing Strategies,

00:28:50 - Importance of Agility,

00:15:57 - Lessons from a Failed Startup,

00:18:05 - Evaluating Startup Concepts,

00:22:30 - Understanding the Customer, 

00:25:43 - Building Strong Value Propositions,

00:29:24 - Understanding Benefits vs. Impacts,

00:33:22 - Cybersecurity and Content Creation,

00:35:55 - Sincerity and Content Value,

00:45:03 - Content Stories and Sales Velocity,

00:48:12 - Managing Multifunctional Disarray,

00:51:37 - Importance of Metrics,

00:52:09 - The Martech Stack and Metrics,

00:54:08 - Practical Tips for Improving Lead Conversion Rates,

00:57:53 - The Importance of SEO and Google,

01:04:24 - Agency Selection and Scoring,

01:08:38 - Building Great Content,

01:10:56 - The Importance of Getting Content Right,

01:11:29 - The Future of Marketing,

01:14:16 - Recommendation for High-Velocity Digital Marketing, 

About Steve Kahan

Bestselling author Steven Mark Kahan has a formidable track record, successfully navigating seven startups to acquisition or IPO, amassing a total value exceeding $5 billion. A powerhouse in the world of startups, Steve is revered for his innovative digital marketing strategies that resulted in rapid revenue growth, market expansion, and robust returns for shareholders. In his most recent stint as CMO and Chief of Staff at Thycotic (now Delinea), he propelled the company to a remarkable $1.4B exit. His impact extends to other ventures like KnowledgeWare, PentaSafe, Postini, Quest Software, and The Planet. A past board member of Target Hunger, Steve channels his passion into philanthropic pursuits. 

• Steven Mark Kahan on LinkedIn
• Steve Kahan on Instagram
• Steve Kahan on Facebook
• Learn all about High-Velocity Digital Marketing - Be a Startup Superstar
• High-Velocity Digital Marketing: Silicon Valley Secrets to Create Breakthrough Revenue in Record Time on Amazon.com

Dan Nestle Links

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) / Twitter

Timestamped summary of this episode (Generated by Capsho - and presented here unedited)

00:00:00 - Introduction, 

Dan Nestle welcomes Steve Kahan, former CMO of cybersecurity firm, Thycotic and author of "High Velocity Digital Marketing" to discuss his journey in the startup world and important factors to consider before choosing a startup.

00:05:05 - Choosing a Startup, 

Kahan shares four important attributes to look for when choosing a startup: quality people who share your values, a concept that fills a big market need, a great product you can get behind, and the startup being well-funded.

00:12:33 - Importance of Stock Options, 

Kahan explains how stock options can be a game-changer for those looking to separate themselves financially. Working for a successful startup and seeing the value of those stock options grow can lead to significant financial gain.

00:17:23 - Digital Marketing Strategies, 

Kahan discusses the importance of digital marketing strategies in building a successful startup, noting that they can be a cost-effective way to reach a large target audience. He breaks down some key strategies outlined in his book, "High Velocity Digital Marketing."

00:28:50 - Importance of Agility, 

Kahan emphasizes the importance of agility in the startup world, noting that companies need to be able to pivot quickly and adapt to changing circumstances. He cites examples from his own experience helping startups navigate unexpected challenges.

00:15:57 - Lessons from a Failed Startup, 

Steve shares his experience working for a startup in Japan that lacked differentiation in the market and eventually failed. He discusses the importance of identifying a unique product and positioning it effectively to stand out from competitors.

00:18:05 - Evaluating Startup Concepts, 

Steve and Dan discuss evaluating startup concepts and identifying a must-solve problem for a specific audience. Steve shares his experience at Psychotic, where understanding the customer and crafting value propositions based on their needs led to significant growth and success.

00:22:30 - Understanding the Customer, 

Steve emphasizes the importance of understanding the full context of the ideal target buyer's world and paying attention to their specific language. He shares his process of asking questions to customers and crafting value propositions that address the benefits and impacts that buyers want to make on their company.

00:25:43 - Building Strong Value Propositions, 

Steve discusses the mistake many organizations make in building value propositions that align well with what they do, rather than what the seller cares about. He emphasizes the importance of crafting value propositions based on a full understanding of customers that address their specific needs and challenges.

00:29:24 - Understanding Benefits vs. Impacts, 

Steve differentiates between benefits and impacts, with impacts being closer to the meaning that customers want to achieve in their lives. He emphasizes the importance of addressing both benefits and impacts in crafting value propositions that resonate with customers.

00:33:22 - Cybersecurity and Content Creation, 

Steve Kahan discusses how weak or stolen privileged passwords are responsible for 80% of cyberattacks, and how his company created content stories to educate and provide value to their customers. He emphasizes the importance of tailoring content to the buyer's journey and creating incredible content that engages the buyer at every stage of the funnel.

00:35:55 - Sincerity and Content Value, 

Kahan explains how being sincere and providing real value in content creation is crucial for engaging potential buyers. He shares examples of his company's free tools and risk assessments, which offered real value to the target market and helped to accelerate revenue growth at reasonable costs.

00:45:03 - Content Stories and Sales Velocity, 

Kahan emphasizes the importance of content stories that tie together and support all stages of the funnel to maintain sales velocity. He highlights the need for ongoing partnerships and collaboration between functions to prevent breakdowns in the buyer's journey. Kahan stresses the importance of metrics and numbers to manage and optimize the sales and marketing process.

00:48:12 - Managing Multifunctional Disarray, 

Kahan emphasizes the importance of managing metrics and numbers to identify and resolve breakdowns in the buyer's journey. He encourages organizations to instrument their sales and marketing processes in detail and manage them rigorously to maintain sales velocity. Kahan stresses the need for ongoing collaboration between functions to prevent breakdowns and optimize the buyer's journey.

00:51:37 - Importance of Metrics, 

The importance of metrics and data analytics is discussed, with Steve Kahan emphasizing the need for ongoing refinement of data to improve marketing strategies.

00:52:09 - The Martech Stack and Metrics, 

The Martech section of the book is discussed, with Steve Kahan providing a blueprint for building a successful marketing stack. He emphasizes the importance of measuring KPIs and setting revenue goals.

00:54:08 - Practical Tips for Improving Lead Conversion Rates, 

Steve Kahan provides practical tips for improving lead conversion rates, including adding a "get a quote" button, minimizing friction in forms, using calls to action in every blog post, and catering to mobile users.

00:57:53 - The Importance of SEO and Google, 

Steve Kahan emphasizes the importance of SEO and Google for businesses today, noting that companies should focus on both great content and SEO optimization to increase their visibility in search results.

01:04:24 - Agency Selection and Scoring, 

Steve Kahan provides a scoring system for selecting digital agencies, emphasizing the need to choose partners who are all about the numbers and can provide expert analysis. He notes that selecting the right agency is crucial to a company's success.

01:08:38 - Building Great Content, 

Steve shares his approach to building great content by having meetings twice a year with cross-functional teams to generate ideas. He prioritizes the best ideas and relies on his team's expertise to create high-quality content that resonates with the target audience.

01:10:56 - The Importance of Getting Content Right, 

Steve emphasizes the importance of getting content right and making sure it resonates with the right buyer. He suggests that many companies struggle with the fundamentals of marketing, and focusing on these basics can make a significant difference.

01:11:29 - The Future of Marketing, 

Dan asks Steve about the trends that marketers should be aware of. Steve responds that the focus should be on mastering the fundamentals of marketing rather than looking for a silver bullet. He also mentions that he is currently writing a murder mystery with James Patterson's co-authors.

01:14:16 - Recommendation for High Velocity Digital Marketing, 

Dan highly recommends Steve's book, "High Velocity Digital Marketing," which offers practical advice on understanding the target audience, creating compelling content, measuring results, and improving marketing efforts. He also notes that David Meerman Scott wrote the book's foreword. 

01:16:55 - Wrapping Up, 

Dan thanks Steve for sharing his insights and experiences on the show. Steve expresses his pleasure in being a guest and shares his website and LinkedIn profile as the best places to find him.

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode, Dan connects with the founder of the Marketing Advisory Network, author of Unleash Possible, host of the Unleash Possible podcast, and most recently co-author (with Dan and 34 others) of The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever, B2B powerhouse Samantha Stone. With a passion for complex problem-solving, Samantha shares powerful insights on the value of communicating effectively with your customers 

B2B communication is strategic, and all too often, businesses make the mistake of thinking it just happens. In reality, it takes time, and as it turns out, it’s one of the most intentional, strategic components of your entire business model. It takes effort to understand your customers, who they are, and what they need. Once you’ve done those things, it’s time to activate them with a message that brings it all together and ignites something special. 

Neither Dan nor Samantha pulls any punches in this episode as they dismiss myths about marketing and share eye-opening insights that will get your gears moving in the right direction. They also discuss her book entitled, “Unleash Possible: A Marketing Playbook that Drives B2B Sales.” When it comes to B2B marketing, chances are Samantha has been there and done that. Now, she wants to make sure you reach that same place and do it better.

Here's what you can expect from the show: 

• Insightful exchanges on the nuances of B2B and B2C communication. 
• The power of networking and value of intimate networks of influencers and contacts.
• The need for marketers and creatives to be amongst one another for a nurturing experience.
• The B2B Experience: stories, reputations, trust, and getting to know your customers.
• Narrowing it down to find out who you can best serve.
• The flaw of spending your way to success and growth. 
• Sales can do things that marketing simply cannot … because marketing isn’t always human. 
• Building sustainable customer relationships, not just securing a sale. 
• Sometimes you have to hold the hands of sales and show them the way. 
• The importance of managing internal stakeholders and understanding their “why”. 
• If everyone is focusing on the buyer, all the jobs become easier. 
• The remote workplace has changed the work-learning landscape. 

Notable Quotes

• “Marketing, communications, whatever it is that we do, creativity, being curious, intellectual curiosity, they’re all so common across leaders in the field, but they need a valve or safe space to let ideas fly.” – (9:16) – Dan
• “Good marketing, great education is emotional.” – (10:19) – Samantha
• “Just because you don’t have the skill doesn’t mean you can’t get the skill.” – (22:24) – Dan
• “Businesses need to find niches that they can own and expand from.” – (28:50) – Samantha
• “Qualitative research is actually a little bit of a lost art.” – (36:44) – Samantha 
• “As human beings it is natural for us to put the most value on the product or service that is the hardest for us to deliver.” – (39:08) – Samantha
• “If we take the time to understand our customers, we’ll build businesses that have sustainable growth.” – (1:12) Samantha

About Dan Nestle 

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) / Twitter
• The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever

About Samantha Stone

Samantha Stone is a forward thinker and true champion of B2B communications. She’s the author of Unleash Possible: A Marketing Playbook that Drives B2B Sales and a leading contributor to the rapidly evolving world of marketing. A skilled researcher, highly sought after speaker and consultant, she’s authored several successful go-to-market efforts, resulting in recognizable results for brands across the business spectrum. The founder of Marketing Advisory Network, the arch of her career has seen her become one of the most trusted voices in the B2B space. Most recently, she has developed on-demand courses focused on mastering the art of finding and using buyer insights. She is a member of Mark Schaefer’s RISE Community and co-author (with Mark, Dan, and 33 others) of The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever.

• Samantha Stone | LinkedIn
• Samantha Stone on Twitter - @Samanthastone
• Unleash Possible - The Website
• Unleash Possible - The Podcast
• Unleash Possible - The Book
• Samantha’s On-Demand Buyer Insight Courses

Timestamped summary of this episode

00:00:00 - Introduction, Host Dan Nestle introduces himself and his guest, Samantha Stone, a leading B2B marketing influencer and advisor. They discuss the challenges and rewards of B2B marketing. 00:04:29 - The Uprising and Rise Communities, Dan and Samantha discuss their attendance at the Uprising conference and their involvement in the Rise community. They talk about the importance of connecting with other marketing professionals and the value of in-person events. 00:08:35 - Emotional Marketing, Samantha and Dan discuss the emotional aspect of marketing and the importance of tapping into the human experience. They reflect on how the Uprising and Rise communities have provided a safe space to explore ideas and connect with others. 00:11:22 - The Value of Community, Dan and Samantha talk about the value of being part of a community and the benefits of engaging with other professionals. They discuss the Rise community's use of Discord and how it has become a valuable tool for learning and networking. 00:14:10 - From Economics to Marketing, Samantha shares her journey from studying economics in college to becoming a B2B marketing influencer and advisor. She discusses her passion for helping companies drive revenue through effective marketing strategies. 00:14:33 - Challenges of Public Policy, Samantha reflects on her love for policy and its challenges, but admits to being impatient. She discusses the slow pace of public policy and how it takes years to make an impact because it affects whole communities. 00:16:14 - From Sales to Marketing, Samantha talks about how she transitioned from channel sales to marketing. She discovered her love for marketing and how it allowed her to have a bigger impact. She also discusses the challenges she faced and how she learned as she went along. 00:19:34 - The Birth of Marketing Advisory Network, Samantha explains why she started the Marketing Advisory Network. She wanted to do what she loved without the baggage of internal politics clouding her judgment. She also talks about how she wrote her book to help people who couldn't afford her services. 00:22:29 - The Importance of People Skills, Samantha discusses the importance of people skills in marketing and sales. She talks about how she honed her people skills by being empathetic and understanding the sales team's perspective. She also emphasizes that anyone can learn people skills with practice and guidance. 00:27:18 - Unleashing Possible, Samantha talks about her book, Unleash Possible, and how it helps companies tap into their full potential. She emphasizes that companies often overlook the resources they have within their organization, such as people and processes. She also discusses the importance of convincing the world of your big opportunity when starting a business. 00:28:44 - The Importance of Narrowing Audience, To create traction, businesses need to find niches to own and expand from. Focusing on narrowing the audience helps to better understand who a business can best serve and prevent bringing in customers who aren't a great fit. 00:29:42 - Measuring Marketing Incorrectly, Boards, CEOs, and salespeople are obsessed with measuring marketing by the number of leads generated. This approach creates the wrong behavior and makes marketing focus on the wrong things. Instead, marketing should be held accountable for overall business metrics and growth. 00:33:00 - Spending Your Way into Success and Growth, Businesses too often try to spend their way into success and growth by running more ads and content syndication. However, they overlook referral activity, advocacy, and word of mouth, which are missed opportunities. Businesses need to experiment with these channels for better results. 00:36:48 - Qualitative Research, Qualitative research is critical for understanding why a buyer or a group of buyers likes a specific aspect of a product or service. It complements data by helping businesses understand what is essential to each buyer at each stage of the process. Salespeople are the best personalization engines for building emotional connections. 00:42:43 - The Role of Experienced Salespeople, Experienced salespeople instinctively know the buyer persona or the buyer data and can build emotional connections. However, they may not have the mechanism or incentive to share this data with their teammates or 00:43:46 - The Importance of Understanding Buyers, Samantha Stone emphasizes the importance of understanding buyers' needs. She explains that good salespeople do not waste time convincing someone to buy something they do not need. Stone believes it is crucial to earn the trust of salespeople and understand what drives them. 00:45:16 - Buyer Personas in Recruitment, Stone mentions her team's focus on the book "The New Rules of Marketing & PR" and creating buyer personas for recruitment. She notes the challenge of obtaining information from recruiters and emphasizes the need to tailor marketing materials to different learning styles. 00:47:11 - Building Relationships with Salespeople, The conversation shifts to the relationship between sales and marketing. Stone explains that salespeople are often hesitant to share data because they do not see any benefit. She recommends creating pilots to prove the effectiveness of marketing materials and building relationships with influential salespeople. 00:50:21 - Knowing Internal Stakeholders, Stone stresses the importance of understanding internal stakeholders, such as salespeople, and creating buyer personas for them. She emphasizes the need to recognize different personalities and learning styles and tailor marketing materials accordingly. 00:56:33 - Samantha Stone's New Learning Product, Stone introduces her new learning product, designed to help people who are new to the marketing field or transitioning to a new role. She notes the challenges of learning remotely and emphasizes the importance of staying up-to-date with the latest industry developments. 00:58:12 - Samantha's Transition to Creating a Self Paced Class, Samantha talks about her transition from providing custom training to creating a self-paced class. She shares that she wanted to make her workshop material accessible to a broader audience and that her course is video-based with exercises in a workbook to help participants apply the skills to their job. 00:58:59 - Buyer Insights Course, Samantha's first course is all about finding buyer insights and is heavy on qualitative research skills. The goal is to help more people understand how to do this kind of research, even if it's not their primary job. The course is designed to take the mystery out of conducting interviews and help people ask better questions. 01:01:00 - Understanding Buyers, Samantha emphasizes the importance of understanding buyers and the need to eliminate friction from the process. She shares a personal experience of how a company lost her as a customer because of the friction they put in the sales process. She believes that marketing is all about understanding people and that it's a good human skill to have. 01:02:44 - Simplifying the Process, Samantha talks about the importance of keeping things simple and removing obstacles for buyers. She believes in creating a frictionless process and removing unnecessary steps to make it easier for buyers. She believes that marketers need to constantly go through and try to eliminate friction points as they come up. 01:10:12 - Taking Time Off, Samantha talks about the importance of taking time off and making time for personal and family commitments 01:11:18 - Long-term thinking in business, farewells

Show notes created in part with Capsho

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode, Dan connects with marketing strategist, researcher, author, and sought-after brand therapist Evelyn J. Starr, whose strategic insights have been instrumental in the revitalization of household names including Dunkin’ Donuts, Hasbro, Gilette, Veryfine, and more. Through decades of research and work helping brands in stagnation, she saw a pattern: brands in distress share characteristics that look a lot like rebellious, sullen, angry, confused, overconfident, misguided teens. In other words, brands go through adolescence, and it can take some serious therapy, nurturing, and guidance to help them reach successful adulthood.

She lays it all out in her recent book,  Teenage Wastebrand: How Your Brand Can Stop Struggling and Start Scaling, and in their discussion, she and Dan discuss some of the highlights, including the eight symptoms of brand adolescence, how to diagnose brand issues, the importance of solid values, and much more. Listen in and learn how to:

• Investigate the value of carving out a unique niche for a standout brand image.
• Recognize the potential hazards of ego-driven business practices and how to avoid them.
• Examine the relationship between well-defined values and a supportive company culture.
• Design a brand strategy anchored in purpose and value-driven principles.
• Excel in maintaining an authentic and dependable brand presence through effective messaging and actions.

Here's what you can expect from the show:

• Corporations and brands are just like people which is why they all have life cycles. 
• How companies can correctly identify and diagnose their brand issues if they’ve stalled. 
• Understanding attitudes and behaviors and how they impact buyers. 
• Fear and misunderstanding of marketing and how it can limit business leaders and brand growth.
• Marketing is a risky investment because the ROI can often be ambiguous, but it’s a risk worth taking.
• Business owners must learn how to parent their brands through the various stages of life. 
• How to identify the eight symptoms of brand adolescence.
• Being brave enough to have hard conversations with your brand about your brand. 
• Brands have life cycles, and so do customers. 
• Discipline is necessary to determine your niche. 
• The need to protect the integrity of your brand through the people you hire.
• The importance of making a list of values you want to be a part of your culture and your brand. 

Notable Quotes

• “During a summer internship I learned more about what I did not want to do than what I did want to do.” – (10:02)- Evelyn.
• “When someone says, ‘I hate marketing’, I’m not running from that, I’m digging a little bit deeper” – (13:20) – Evelyn. 
• “I started to try to find ways to explain marketing in non-marketing terms” – (14:15) - Evelyn.
• “You can’t see things when you’re too emotionally close” – (15:55) - Evelyn.
• “As my brand grows, I’m going to become more of a coach and less of a controller.” – (19:05) - Evelyn.
• “Identity crisis is the most common one (symptom) I see.” – (23:40) - Evelyn.
• “In order for a brand to get known and grow, it needs to be focused at least during the beginning.” – (37:15) - Evelyn.
• “Brands can fall out of favor very quickly due to their self-centered behavior being revealed” – (50:15) - Evelyn.
• “People bring their values to work, and you want to attract people who subscribe to the way you would like to serve your customers.” – (55:06) - Evelyn.
• “You cannot be crappy to your employees and great to your customers and not have that get out.” – (1:02:10) - Evelyn.

Resources and Links

The Dan Nestle Show 

• The Dan Nestle Show
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) / Twitter

Evelyn Starr

• E. Starr Associates
• Evelyn Starr | LinkedIn
• Teenage Wastebrand: How Your Brand Can Stop Struggling and Start Scaling

Timestamped summary of this episode (Generated by Capsho):

00:00:00 - Introduction,  Dan Nestle introduces the podcast and talks about the importance of understanding the life cycle of brands. Dan shares his concerns as a parent and how it relates to building a successful brand. He introduces his guest, Evelyn Starr, a marketing leader and brand therapist, and author of the book "Teenage Waste Brand." 00:01:20 - Evelyn Starr's Background, Evelyn Starr talks about her background and how she started her career in market research. She worked for companies like Very Fine Products, Dunkin Donuts, and Hasbro. She shares how she started working with small and medium-sized companies to help them with their marketing. 00:08:45 - The Life Cycle of Brands, Dan Nestle asks Evelyn Starr how she got interested in helping brands in their teenage years. Evelyn shares that many business owners don't understand marketing and are fearful of investing in it. She explains how she helps them understand marketing in non-marketing terms. She talks about the different phases in the life cycle of brands and how they can face issues during their turbulent adolescence. 00:17:41 - Identifying Brand Issues, Evelyn Starr talks about how to identify brand issues and how to diagnose them. She talks about the importance of understanding the customer and their needs. She shares examples of how she has helped companies identify their brand issues and how they have overcome them. 00:25:18 - Branding in the Digital Age, Dan Nestle asks Evelyn Starr about branding in the digital age. Evelyn 00:15:00 - Identity Crisis, The first symptom of brand adolescence is an identity crisis. Like in human adolescence, the brand must determine who they want to be and how they want to be perceived. A brand purpose that transcends a particular product and brand attributes that resonate with customers must be determined. 00:23:35 - Symptom Not Stages, Evelyn Starr emphasizes that the symptoms are not sequential, but rather different characteristics of adolescent brands. Each brand may experience some or all eight symptoms at different times. 00:25:23 - Purpose and Attributes, The brand's purpose and attributes are key in resolving the identity crisis symptom. The brand must have a purpose that is transcendent and attributes that resonate with customers. Research and feedback from customers can help define these. 00:28:45 - Therapeutic Process, Similar to a therapeutic process, the brand must go through analyses of the why and what to solve the identity crisis. Exercises like stickies and whiteboards can help in brand discovery, purpose discovery, and attribute discovery. Evelyn Starr provides a step-by-step guide in her book. 00:29:55 - Dealing with Complexity, The conversation begins with Dan asking Evelyn how brands deal with complexity, specifically in a house of brands where there are multiple product brands under a corporate brand. Evelyn explains that each brand needs to know who they are before they can contribute, and the parent company needs to have a unifying purpose for putting the brands together. 00:35:30 - Finding a Niche, The topic of finding a niche comes up in relation to solving the symptom of "suffering from FOMO" or fear of missing out. Evelyn explains that in order for a brand to grow, it needs to be focused and known for something, at least in the beginning. Choosing a niche allows a brand to gain expertise and credibility, and finding a new niche can help a brand expand and grow. 00:39:17 - Fear and Innovation, Fear is a common obstacle for business owners who are afraid of leaving money on the table or missing out on opportunities. Evelyn discusses the importance of leaving fear behind and being open to new directions and innovations. She shares the example of Amazon, who started by focusing on one product (books) before expanding to other products. 00:41:49 - Box Three Solution, Dan shares his experience with directed innovation and the Box Three Solution, which involves finding new audiences, changes to the product, business model, or value chain. Evelyn notes that finding new niches can combat various symptoms of adolescence, including the need to assert independence, make new friends, or overcome fear of missing out. 00:46:06 - Finding Your Niche, Evelyn advises against copying someone else's business model and suggests drilling down further to find an untapped idea. She emphasizes the importance of doing research and discovering new things that align with your brand. 00:48:41 - Self-Centeredness, Evelyn discusses the risk of building a brand solely for profits and not serving the audience. She explains how this behavior can lead to mistrust, loss of productivity, and wasted resources. The solution is to revisit company values that align with serving the customer and the employees. 00:51:20 - The Importance of Company Values, Evelyn explains how values guide behavior and behaviors create culture. She emphasizes the importance of codifying values from the beginning and recruiting people who share those values. A strong company culture leads to a strong brand. 00:54:05 - Trust and Culture, Evelyn explains the connection between trust, culture, and brand. Self-centered behavior can damage a brand's reputation, making it hard to regain trust. A clear set of values that align with serving the customer and the employees can prevent this. 01:01:36 - The Employee Culture, Evelyn discusses how the employee culture is a vital part of the brand. She stresses that the employer brand and the customer-facing brand are all one and the same and that treating employees well is just as important as treating customers well. A strong employee culture leads to a strong brand. 01:02:22 - The Importance of Employee Experience, Businesses should prioritize the well-being of their employees as much as their customers and consumers. The kind of internal culture a company has affects its overall external brand reputation. 01:04:07 - Transparency in Branding, Social media has made it easier for people to share their opinions about a company's internal culture, making transparency in branding more important than ever. It's crucial for marketers and business leaders to recognize that employees are a core stakeholder and audience that must be treated with the utmost care. 01:06:08 - The Impact of Teenage Wastebrand, Evelyn Starr's book, 'Teenage Wastebrand,' highlights the signs of a company that is stuck in a state of adolescence, including a lack of purpose, values, and identity. These brands struggle to stand out in a crowded market and often do not resonate with their intended audience. 01:08:00 - Evolving Your Brand, Evelyn Starr's brand is evolving as she incorporates developmental editing of business books into her work as a consumer insights expert and brand therapist. She helps business owners make confident marketing decisions and aligns her purpose with theirs. 01:14:50 - Why You Should Read 'Teenage Wastebrand,' 'Teenage Wastebrand' is an easily accessible, relatable, and practical guidebook that helps businesses identify their purpose, values, and niche. The book also emphasizes the importance of employee well-being and how transparency in branding is necessary

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode, Dan connects with scholar and organizational and leadership development practitioner, Dr. Tom Tonkin, to discuss authenticity and sincerity in the workplace and beyond. 

Authenticity is often lauded as a key quality in leadership, fostering trust and building strong relationships within an organization. However, the term itself can be misunderstood and difficult to pin down due to its connection to subjective feelings, emotions, and beliefs. Authenticity is self-referential; overemphasis can lead to issues in the workplace, as individuals may prioritize their own self-expression over the needs of their team or company. Instead, it is important to balance personal authenticity with a broader understanding of the context in which we operate – including the values, goals, and perspectives of others. 

Tom and Dan dig into this topic as Tom shares his insights into the problem of focusing too much on authenticity in leadership. He highlights the inherent subjectivity of authenticity, as one person's perception of honesty may differ from another's. Tom argues that while being true to oneself is important, it is equally necessary to consider how our actions and decisions impact others. How? By embracing sincerity, an other-centric approach, incorporating empathy and understanding to forge deeper, more meaningful connections with those around us.

Here's what you can expect from the show:

• Consider the implications of embracing authenticity in the workplace, especially when it comes to relationship-building and leadership.
• Reflect on the four dimensions of authenticity: internal morality, self-awareness, transparency, and balanced processing.
• Assess the alignment between your internal morality and the ethics of your workplace or industry.
• Develop a greater sense of self-awareness to better understand how your actions and decisions impact others.
• Practice transparency by openly sharing your thoughts, feelings, and motives with your colleagues or team members.
• Implement balanced processing by considering various perspectives and ideas when making decisions.
• Evaluate your leadership style and consider how incorporating authenticity might affect your ability to lead and engage with others.
• Be open to questioning and challenging accepted norms or ideas, such as the concept of authenticity in the workplace.
• Research and learn from academic studies and theories that can provide valuable insights into workplace practices and behaviors.
• Recognize that authenticity is not a one-size-fits-all concept and that individuals may interpret and apply it differently.

About Tom

Dr. Tom Tonkin is a renowned expert on authenticity and sincerity in leadership and communication, offering a unique behavioral perspective on these important topics. With a deep understanding of organizational and leadership development, Tom holds a doctorate in organizational leadership and has spent countless hours researching and analyzing the intricate dynamics of business relationships. He is the founder and CEO of Sales Conservatory, a company dedicated to helping individuals and organizations improve their leadership and communication strategies. Tom's wealth of knowledge and experience in this field, as well as his passion for sincerity, make him a sought-after authority on effective leadership and communication.

Notable Quotes

• “The more I did research on authenticity with the express purpose of relationship building, the more disillusioned I became.” – (2:06)
• “We can say words but it’s actually the recipient that brings those words to life.” – (19:58)
• “Honesty is the #1 trait of leadership.” – (29:15)
• “We don’t have enough honesty in our leadership ranks.” (34:12)
• “People say things like that’s my truth when the fact of the matter is there is only one truth. – (45:50)
• “Empathy is an association to feelings; sympathy is a disassociation.” – (1:01:13)

Resources and Links 

The Dan Nestle Show 

• The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com)
• Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn
• The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook
• Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) / Twitter

Dr. Tom Tonkin

• Dr. Tom Tonkin | Linkedin
• Dr. Tom Tonkin @DrTomTonkin | Twitter
• Thomas Tonkin | Facebook
• Tom Tonkin | 3Sixty Insights

Timestamped summary of this episode:

00:00:00 - Introduction,  Dan Nestle introduces the topic of authenticity and questions its meaning in the workplace. He introduces the guest, Dr. Tom Tonkin, who has researched authenticity and offers a unique perspective on it. 00:03:09 - The Disillusionment with Authenticity, Dr. Tom Tonkin explains his journey with authenticity and how his research on the topic led him to be disillusioned with it, especially in terms of relationship building in the workplace. 00:05:53 - The Context of Authenticity, Dr. Tom Tonkin explores the context of authenticity, tracing its roots back to transformational leadership, and how authenticity can be self-referential, creating potential problems in relationship building. 00:09:16 - The Operational View of Leadership, Dr. Tom Tonkin explains the operational view of leadership, which focuses on the force exerted on followers to achieve a common goal. He also discusses the concept of internalized morality and how it relates to authenticity. 00:16:07 - The Meaning of Authenticity, Dan Nestle and Dr. Tom Tonkin discuss the meaning of authenticity and its importance in the workplace. They highlight the need to balance being true to oneself while also considering the needs of others and the company. 00:17:53 - Authenticity and Leadership Qualities, Tom Tonkin and Dan Nestle discuss the difference between behaviors and qualities in terms of authenticity and leadership. They explore the concept of self-awareness and the importance of transparency and balance processing. 00:19:25 - The Meaning of Words and Authenticity, Tom explains the importance of the meaning of words and how the recipient brings those words to life. He uses the example of authenticity in Mexican restaurants, where different restaurants have different authentic tacos. He emphasizes that authenticity is self-referential and varies from person to person. 00:25:01 - Honesty as a Key Leadership Trait, Tom discusses how honesty is consistently ranked as the most important leadership trait in the book, The Leadership Challenge. He explores why honesty is so highly valued and suggests that it is because people want to trust their leaders and believe that they are on the right path. 00:29:09 - Honesty in Leadership, Dan and Tom discuss the importance of honesty in leadership and how it relates to trust. They explore the idea that there is an honesty problem in many aspects of society, including politics and industry. 00:34:00 - Lack of Honesty in Society, Tom suggests that the more plausible explanation for why honesty is consistently ranked as the most important leadership trait is that there is a lack of honesty in our society, especially in leadership positions. Dan and Tom agree that there is an honesty problem in many areas of society. 00:35:25 - The Problem with Honesty and Authenticity, The conversation starts with a discussion on honesty and authenticity. The guest, Tom Tonkin, explains that honesty can mean different things to different people, and authenticity has the same problem. He also talks about how internal morality defines one's sense of honesty, and how it can differ from one person to another. 00:37:09 - Differentiating Authenticity and Sincerity, Tonkin shares how he was initially disillusioned with the concept of authenticity and turned to sincerity. He defines sincerity as being other-centric and describes his three tenets of sincerity: empathy, purposeful altruism, and demonstrable affirmation. Tonkin also talks about the problem with the misuse of the words authenticity and sincerity. 00:43:46 - Empathy as the Key to Sincerity, Tonkin explains how empathy is one of the core tenets of sincerity and how it plays a crucial role in decision-making. He also shares an example of how he had to lie to his mother, who had severe dementia, about her father's death, and how empathy played a significant role in his decision. 00:48:20 - The Importance of Standardizing Language, Tonkin talks about the importance of standardizing language and the misuse of adjectives and adverbs that alter perception. He explains how words like bad and good can be problematic, as they are subject to interpretation, and how we need to have a standardization of concepts to understand reality objectively. 00:52: - The Continuum of Lies, Tonkin talks about the continuum of lies, where a lie is acceptable if it causes no harm. He also refers to Sabrina Horn's book, "Make It, Don't Fake It," and how she explains the different kinds of lies and when they are acceptable. Tonkin concludes by emphasizing the importance of empathy and sincerity in decision-making. 00:53:15 - Defining Purposeful Altruism, Tom Tonkin introduces purposeful altruism as a concept that goes beyond traditional altruism, which is often questioned for its true motives. Purposeful altruism aims to have a purpose behind the act of giving, with no expectation of receiving anything in return. 00:57:27 - Empathy and the Power of Noticing, Tonkin emphasizes the importance of noticing in understanding empathy. He shares a story about how Alan Alda improved his empathy by noticing people and creating backstories about them. Tonkin highlights the power of empathy to change perspectives and connect with others. 01:02:07 - Demonstrable Affirmation, Tonkin stresses the need for demonstrable affirmation to show sincerity. He suggests that actions speak louder than words and speaks about the importance of doing something to affirm beliefs and show empathy towards others. 01:03:27 - The Ethics of Sincerity, Tonkin differentiates between ethics and morality and emphasizes that sincerity is an ethical play, aimed at bettering someone else's life within a social context. He notes that sincerity is not rainbows and unicorns but involves doing good and affecting good in a social context. 01:07:23 - Sincerity vs. Authenticity, Tonkin contrasts sincerity with authenticity, noting that authenticity is focused on the self, while sincerity is focused on the other. While both may lead to good outcomes, sincerity takes a more direct path and is not focused on self-referential points. 01:09:12 - Authenticity vs. Sincerity, Tom Tonkin and Dan Nestle discuss the difference between authenticity and sincerity. Tonkin argues that authenticity has been overused and has led to problems because people have different value sets. Sincerity, on the other hand, requires getting to know someone and understanding their values. 01:10:13 - The Paradox of Authenticity, Tonkin and Nestle explore the paradox of authenticity. Tonkin argues that if being authentic takes work, then it's not authentic, and this is a paradox. He believes that we need to move away from the idea of bringing our authentic selves to work and focus on being trustworthy, transparent and demonstrating integrity. 01:17:01 - The Abstract Nature of Organizations, Tonkin and Nestle discuss the abstract nature of organizations and how people often talk about things like "the organization thinks" or "leadership thinks" when really it's just the CEO or leadership team's opinions. Tonkin argues that it's important to personalize things and focus on individuals rather than abstract concepts. 01:19:45 - Empathy vs. Compassion, Tonkin and Nestle discuss the difference between empathy and compassion. Tonkin argues that empathy is not always helpful, particularly in a therapeutic context, where a third-party view is often more beneficial. He believes that companies need to focus on interventions based on immutable facts rather than feelings. 01:25:06 - Building Policies based on Immutable Truths, Tonkin argues that policies should be based on immutable truths rather than subjective feelings. For example, companies with boards that have men and women are more profitable than those with only men or only women. Tonkin believes that companies should focus on immutable facts to create policies that are good for business and their employees. 01:26:02 - Treating People Equally, Tom and Dan discuss the importance of treating people equally regardless of race or gender. They also touch on the issue of diversity and inclusion, highlighting the importance of ensuring that qualified candidates are hired regardless of their background. 01:27:18 - Cognitive Truth vs. Feelings, Tom and Dan dive into the concept of cognitive truth and sincerity versus authenticity. They question the validity of feelings as a basis for authenticity and suggest that sincerity is more important in the workplace. 01:28:13 - Book Publication, Tom talks about his upcoming book and the process of negotiating with agents and publishers. He hopes to contribute to a healthy debate on the topic of authenticity and sincerity in the workplace. 01:29:24 - Immutable Truths, Tom and Dan emphasize the importance of honest debate and discourse in society. They hope that people will continue to question ideas and grow, and that sincerity will become a more readily available concept in the workplace. 01:32:25 - Call to Action, Dan encourages listeners to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast, and to share it with their friends. He thanks Tom for sharing his thoughts and contributing to a healthy debate on the topic of authenticity and sincerity in the workplace.

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode, Dan connects with prolific author, seasoned marketer, communicator, academic, and entrepreneur, John Davis. John has spent the last two decades in academia, holding various positions in universities across the US and Asia. Currently a professor of practice at the University of Oregon's Lundquist College of Business, John's passion for sustainability and transformation shines through his work. With eleven books under his belt, his latest, Radical Business: How to Transform Your Organization in the Age of Global Crisis, highlights the importance of curiosity, innovation, and sustainability in today's ever-changing business landscape. A leader in sustainability, John's unique perspective and experiences make him a sought-after voice in the world of business transformation.

Listen in and...

• Understand the power of curiosity, innovation, and sustainability in revolutionizing businesses.
• Explore methods to develop comprehensive corporate social responsibility programs.
• Find out how prioritizing purpose, advocacy, and meaning can elevate an organization's triumph.
• Understand the importance of ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) reporting and why organizations struggle with it.
• Grasp the importance of synchronized stakeholder engagement for transparent decision-making.
• Realize ways to inspire younger generations to champion sustainable change.

Actions and ideas mentioned in this episode:

• Read John Davis' book, Radical Business: How to Transform Your Organization in the Age of Global Crisis, for insights on how to create a sustainable and successful organization.
• Consider incorporating sustainability into your organization's strategy and operations to become a force for good in the age of global crisis.
• Cultivate curiosity and encourage it within your organization as a key leadership quality and driver of innovation.
• Adopt the concept of traveler's eyes by seeking out new experiences and perspectives to stimulate imagination and personal growth.
• Encourage open and honest dialogue within your organization, even when it means challenging established norms and potentially uncomfortable discussions.
• Be willing to collaborate with other organizations and share insights to address global challenges and drive positive change collectively.
• Recognize the importance of balancing short-term targets with long-term goals, allowing your organization to maintain focus on the horizon and avoid getting stuck in the weeds.
• Continuously seek out new learning opportunities and experiences, both within your industry and beyond, to keep your organization adaptable and resilient in the face of change.

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• https://nestle.libsyn.com/
• http://twitter.com/dsnestle
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle
• https://www.facebook.com/thedannestleshow

John Davis

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnadavis

Timestamped summary of this episode: 00:00:00 - Introduction, Host Dan Nestle welcomes guest John Davis to the show and introduces the topic of business transformation and sustainability. 00:00:58 - The Need for Positive Societal Impact, The conversation touches on the need for businesses to move beyond profit and create positive societal impact, with the involvement of all stakeholders. 00:03:09 - Journey to Academia, John Davis shares his journey from a career in business, primarily marketing and strategy roles, to falling in love with teaching, joining academia, and eventually becoming a professor of practice and sustainability. 00:07:00 - Influence of Singapore, John Davis talks about how his time in Singapore, with its smart city initiatives and diverse community, influenced his perspectives on sustainability and led to working with companies all over the world. 00:11:21 - The Role of Curiosity, Curiosity is highlighted as a critical quality for leadership and strategy, with a need to cultivate wonder and openness to new experiences and viewpoints to stimulate innovation and creativity. 00:14:35 - The Importance of Curiosity, John Davis emphasizes that curiosity is the epitome of exploration and imaginative responses. He highlights that it stimulates different kinds of responses and encourages individuals to notice differences rather than fighting them. 00:16:43 - The Need for Reinvention, Davis discusses the drivers of reinvention, including climate change, economic inequality, and social injustice. He believes that companies need to pivot differently to stay in line with consumer values and investor interests to be successful in the long term. 00:22:51 - Influence of Leaders, Davis talks about the influence of leaders on promoting stakeholder capitalism and creating momentum for change. He believes that individuals like Mark Benioff and Elon Musk can wield an outsized influence on society and businesses. 00:26:08 - Taking Action, Davis emphasizes that it is crucial to take action and integrate sustainability into business strategies to stay ahead of the market. He acknowledges that it may not be easy, but it is necessary for long-term success. 00:29:57 - Drivers of Business Transformation, Davis highlights the importance of consumers, capital markets, and influential people as drivers of business transformation. He recommends starting where you can start and taking that first step towards integration. 00:30:29 - Getting Started with Innovation, John Davis suggests using human-centered design or design thinking to ask the right questions upfront and understand what the target audience is looking for. He emphasizes the importance of recognizing the different stakeholders and having conversations with them to create a purpose-led tent that everyone is invited into. 00:32:10 - Recognizing the Complications, John Davis highlights the importance of recognizing the complications in today's world while approaching stakeholder conversations. He mentions the significance of sustainability, diversity, and inclusion, and how they are influential in creating value for businesses. 00:34:00 - ESG Metrics, John Davis discusses the importance of having ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) metrics while reporting sustainability initiatives. He highlights the different reporting standards and the overlapping nature of these standards. 00:37:35 - Climbing the Transformation Ladder, John Davis talks about the difficulty of climbing the transformation ladder for large companies with many internal stakeholders. He emphasizes the importance of decision-making capability and comfort with discomfort to make progress towards the goals. He also highlights the significance of transparency and communication while working towards the goals. 00:43:17 - Radical Business, John Davis suggests organizations should take a look at their purpose and align it with the context to answer the big question of why they exist. He mentions the importance of having an aspiration and thinking intentionally about what their mark on the world will be. Thinking abstractly about aspirations is more difficult than a mechanical approach, but it is crucial to move forward. 00:44:43 - The Importance of Aspiration, John Davis emphasizes the importance of having a guiding star or aspiration for an organization. He explains that this helps put in place next steps, decide on the kind of people needed, and create meaningful experiences. He notes that many organizations have mission statements but lack an aspiration, which creates an imperative for organizations to define one. 00:46:05 - Purpose, Behaviors, and Values, The host and John Davis discuss the importance of purpose, behaviors, and values in an organization. They highlight the need to get employees on board with the culture, which requires having a clear aspiration. They discuss the concept of discretionary effort and how people want to know that their work matters and that they're contributing to something beyond earning a wage. 00:50:10 - The Changing Work Environment, The conversation shifts to the changing work environment and the need to move away from the industrial revolution thinking of a fixed nine-to-five workday. They discuss the importance of accountability and productivity while allowing for more freedom and flexibility. They note that there's a big systemic issue around this cultural mindset. 00:54:25 - Cause Advocacy and Meaning, John Davis introduces the concept of cause advocacy and meaning as a more effective way to understand people and their motivations. He notes that this approach goes beyond the traditional segmentation, targeting, and positioning model in marketing. Cause advocacy involves understanding what drives an individual, while meaning taps into what gives their personal and professional lives meaning. 00:57:38 - Moving Forward in Marketing and Communications, The host asks John Davis what marketers and communicators need to do to move forward. Davis emphasizes the need to move away from the traditional marketing model and focus on cause advocacy and meaning to better understand people. He notes that marketing is an evolutionary discipline and that this approach is a powerful set of tools that goes beyond traditional marketing tactics. 00:59:06 - Understanding the Meaning that Drives Organizations, John talks about finding out the meaning that drives organizations and how it can help talk to stakeholders. He also shares an exercise he used to do with MBA students that highlighted the importance of context and how it impacts innovation. 01:01:30 - Creating Societal Value, John discusses how societal value doesn't always mean the latest gadget or innovation but often comes from looking at underserved populations. He highlights the importance of looking at these populations where a lot of innovation is likely to happen. 01:04:20 - Using Resources Creatively, John talks about how innovation is not necessarily dependent on abundant resources and uses examples like GreenCake in the West Bank, which created building blocks from rubble, and a man who created a $5 prosthetic leg. 01:06:28 - John's Final Thoughts, John shares that his book is a starting point for organizations to figure out what steps they need to take to transform, but he believes that we have infinite capacity and capability to make the changes we want. He's optimistic about the future and mentions how younger generations are already ahead of the game in terms of wanting to make positive changes. 01:10:31 - Closing Remarks, Dan thanks John for being on the show and encourages listeners to check out John's book and consulting work. He also asks listeners to leave a review and share the podcast with friends to help spread the word.

*Show notes have been partially AI-generated, but The Dan Nestle Show is 100% human. 

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode, Dan connects with business strategist, executive coach, exit strategy specialist, and counselor to leaders in industry and government, Carri Nicholson. As The Leader Whisperer™, Carri knows how to help CEOs understand the pitfalls and obstacles that cause businesses to stall or fizzle out before achieving next-level growth or profitable exit. Her decades of experience advising leaders - first alongside her father as a business consultant, then as an officer and diplomat in the British army, and later as a CEO in her own right - have given her a comprehensive understanding of leadership. 

She and Dan talk about the challenges she faced as a woman in the UK, taking on leadership roles in the Army and the private sector, and how the power of human connections is one reason she succeeded. They talk about leadership; her observations of world leaders from playing a key role in the Middle East peace process; how CEOs manage teams and projects to scale a business end to end; and how you can become efficient at leading and becoming an effective leader. 

This 90-minute session with Carri is full of useful insights, in-depth analysis based on practical experiences, conclusions based on factual data, and online resources and recommendations that would be a great asset to anyone interested in expanding their leadership skills.

This is one episode you don’t want to miss.

In This Episode

• (01:49) Welcoming Carrie Nicholson to the Dan Nestle Show.

• (03:25) Never underestimate the power of human connections.

• (06:21) Becoming the leader whisperer.

• (13:41) The Middle East peace process post-Oslo.

• (19:07) Joining the Officer Training Corps and becoming a sniper.

• (23:54) Talking about ranks, gaining rank, and pulling rank. 

• (31:12) Leadership lessons learned through life and death.

• (33:34) Recalling her experiences at the Royal Military Academy.

• (37:46) Becoming a leader by observing other leaders in the military.

• (40:47) Meeting her 2nd husband and running the MBA program at the University of Durham.

• (44:21) Becoming the CEO of Red Squirrel Conservation Program for the UK.

• (45:15) Working with the Prince of Wales.

• (46:50) Hosting a private dinner and securing donations from the 26 wealthiest people in UK.

• (52:00) How the idea of mentoring other people came about.

• (1:02:38) The 12 blind spots of STEM people.

• (1:06:49) The challenges faced by the peas in the pod.

• (1:08:11) Managing people’s emotions and behaviors.

• (1:11:30) Talking about toxic cultures.

• (1:13:16) How venture capital companies find partners.

• (1:20:19) Discussing the best collection of business books online.

• (1:22:30) Where to start your research.

• (1:26:01) Becoming a person of your word.

• (1:29:11) Understanding leadership and how leaders think.

Notable Quotes

• “Things that the Army really did teach me is that even when you are in a position of command, you don't know everything. And I saw so many young officers fail. Because they assumed that having the rank gave them the knowledge.” – Carrie (22:45)

• “If you've come from a STEM background, you are taught and you've been drawn into that because of your personality types, you are taught that perfection is everything. What that actually means is that it can lead to procrastination because you are constantly in search of the ideal rather than the good enough, and you put off making decisions because of that.” – Carrie (1:04:17)

• “There's always that period of time where you think that the symbol that you have on your collar or on your or on your shoulder entitles you to just tell people what to do. There are rules, but you're not going to make it very long in your space or you're not going to ever get promoted. You're not going to move forward. You’re just not going to be successful in achieving your project objectives, if you don't learn how to lead and don't learn fast.” Dan (23:54)

• “Managing people means managing their emotions and behaviors, and that is something that STEM leaders can find very, very challenging and what that means is that they struggle to build functional teams. And linked into that is a communication thing. Understanding how people communicate and how to communicate your particular values and your ethos and the behaviors that you expect to see happen. And so there's a whole quadrant on the wheel, which is about understanding that you can build teams in a better way and they don't have to be dysfunctional.” Carrie (1:08:11)

• “Don't beat yourself up, guys. Because to get as far any leader to even survive a year is beating the odds. All you need is the boost to get to the next level. But you can't do that by yourself. So if it's not me, find somebody. Yeah, because everybody needs somebody in their corner.” Carrie (1:31:00) 

About Carri Nicholson

Carri Nicholson specializes in helping CEOs address blind spots that many small business leaders face when scaling their businesses. An entrepreneur herself, she's also a former British Army officer with decades of experience dealing with leaders in the military, political, and business arenas. Now, as The Leader Whisperer™, she's turned her deep understanding of management and leadership into programs that help small business owners and CEOs to become big business owners and CEOs.

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show: https://nestle.libsyn.com/

• Dan Nestle on Twitter: http://twitter.com/dsnestle

• Dan Nestle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nestle

• The Dan Nestle Show on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheDanNestleShow/ 

 Carri Nicholson

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrinicholson-leaderwhisperer/

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeaderWhisper

• Website: https://www.carrinicholson.com/

• Website: https://theleaderwhisperer.substack.com/

Mentions

• Five Dysfunctions of Team Leadership by Patrick Lencioni - https://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Fable/dp/0787960756

• Principles: Life and Work by Ray Dalio - https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Life-Work-Ray-Dalio/dp/1501124021

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.