Australia has approved the 943 MW Valley of the Winds Wind Farm, Bermuda plans to install an offshore wind farm with 17 turbines by 2027, and Nova Scotia proposes an ambitious $10 billion offshore wind project.

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Australia has given the green light to a massive wind project. The Independent Planning Commission in New South Wales has approved ACEN Australia's nine hundred forty-three megawatt Valley of the Winds wind farm. The project also includes a three hundred twenty megawatt battery storage system. The project will create up to four hundred construction jobs and fifty permanent positions. The investment is approximately one point six eight billion Australian dollars.

The island nation of Bermuda is making the most of its windy weather. Officials unveiled plans for an offshore wind farm starting with seventeen turbines by twenty twenty-seven. The project aims to help Bermuda reach its twenty thirty-five goal of eighty-five percent renewable energy. The project will begin with a sixty megawatt installation near the north shore. Officials hope to scale up to one hundred twenty megawatts total.

Nigel Burgess, head of regulation at Regulatory Authority Bermuda, calls offshore wind a compelling opportunity. The project will lower exposure to fuel price shocks and create space for long-term investment. Currently, Bermuda gets one hundred percent of its power from fuel burning. The project aims to promote energy independence by reducing dependence on imported fuels. The wind farm is expected to be operational by twenty thirty.

Nova Scotia has announced an ambitious offshore wind project that could cost up to ten billion dollars. Premier Tim Houston wants to license enough offshore turbines over the next ten years to produce forty gigawatts of electricity. That's eight times more than originally planned. To put this in perspective, Nova Scotia with just over one million people requires only two point four gigawatts at peak demand. China's offshore wind turbines were producing just under forty-two gigawatts as of last year.

The project would require hundreds of wind turbines built in water about one hundred meters deep, about twenty-five kilometers offshore. Experts say the project would actually need more than four thousand offshore turbines using current fifteen megawatt turbines. The transmission line alone is estimated to cost between five billion and ten billion dollars to connect the wind farms with the rest of the country.

The premier calls it a concept to capture the imagination of Nova Scotians. He wants federal help to cover costs, saying the excess electricity could supply twenty-seven percent of Canada's total demand.

Howard Penrose from MotorDoc discusses their electrical signature monitoring for wind turbines that offers precise diagnostics, enabling cost-effective preventative maintenance and lifetime extension.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining Light on Wind. Energy's brightest innovators. This is the Progress Powering tomorrow.

Allen Hall: Howard, welcome back to the show. Thank you. Well, we've been traveling a, a good deal and talking to a lot of operators in the United States and in Europe, and even in Australia. And, uh, your name comes up quite a bit because we talk to all the technical people in the world and we see a lot of things. And I get asked quite a bit, what is the coolest technology that I don't know about?

And I say, Howard Penrose MotorDoc. And they say, who? And I say, well, wait a minute. If you want something super powerful to learn about your turbine, that is easy to implement and has been vetted and has years of in-service testing and verification. It is MotorDock, it is [00:01:00] empower for motors, it is empath for systems and vibration and all the other things.

And now empath, CMS, which is a continuous monitoring system that you're offering that those systems are revolutionary and I don't use that word a lot in wind. It's revolutionary in wind and. Let, let me just back up a little bit because I, I want to explain what some of these problems are that we're seeing in the field and, and what your systems do.

But there's a, the, the core to what your technology is, is that you're using the air gap between the rotor and the stator and the generator to monitor what's happening inside the turbine. Very precisely. Can you just provide a little insight like how that magic happens? 

Howard Penrose: Okay. It's, it's basically, we use it as an, as a basic accelerometer.

So, um, the side to side movement of the, of the rotor inside the air gap. Um. I could get very technical and use the word [00:02:00] inverse square law, but basically in the magnetic field I've got side to side movement. Plus every defect in the powertrain, um, causes either blips or hesitations in the rotation.

Basically, the torque of the machine, which is also picked up in the air gap, and from a physics standpoint. The air gap, the magnetic field, can't tell the difference. And, um, both voltage and current see that as small ripples in the wave form, and then we just pull that data out. So, um, uh, I, I liken it exactly as vibration.

Just a different approach, 

Allen Hall: right? And that that vibration turns into little ripples. And then I'm gonna talk electrical engineering, just for a brief moment, everybody. We're taking it from the time domain to the frequency domain. We're doing a four a transform. And in that four a transform, you can see these spikes that occur at, uh, known locations that correlate back to what the machine is doing 

Howard Penrose: exactly.

[00:03:00] They're they're exact calculations, uh, down to the hundred or even thousandths of a hertz. Uh, so, uh, when we, when we do the measurements, they come up as side bands around, uh, whatever. The, the, uh, signature is, so the amplitude modulation, it's an amplitude modulated signal. So I have, uh, basically the ripple show up on the positive side of the waveform and on the negative side of the waveform.

So around everything, I just have plus and minus line frequency. That's, that's basically the primary difference. Then we just convert it over to decibels, which makes it, um, relational to the load, which means load doesn't matter. Uh, so I can compare an unloaded machine to a fully loaded machine and get the same results, 

Allen Hall: which is also amazing.

So the load, what the turbine is doing doesn't really matter at all, as long as it's rotating and producing power. You can [00:04:00] monitor what's happening, sort of anything up, and then the cell. Mostly, 

Howard Penrose: well, it's even, it's even more fun than that because the air gap in a wind turbine is at a fixed speed for a dfi.

So, uh, it's constantly turning at the exact same speed, which is basically all I need regardless of the physical speed. So, vibration, I need to know that physical speed and electrical signature. I need to know the air gap. Speed. 

Allen Hall: So with this data and the way you're monitoring what's happening on the turbine is through current sensors on the feeds and voltage probes.

You could do one or the other and, and you've done both, and we can discuss that for a moment. But just using the what's happening on the wires, on the generator wires, now he can determine everything that's generally happening mechanically. So from gearbox to the blades. The, [00:05:00] the hub, uh, you can even determine things that are happening up tower a little bit like ya motors and that sort of thing.

If they're acting weird, you can see changes there. And it's sort of like the pulse of the turbine 

Howard Penrose: and the main bearings. And the main bearings, right? So all the bearings never leave out the main bearings. That's, that's a study we're involved in right now. So, um. Yeah. Uh, oh. Yeah. The, the study right now is, uh, we're using the technology to map out circulating current sub tower.

Um, so we're, we're looking at, uh, why main bearings are failing, um, which was missed before. I've got an, I've got a paper coming out on it. We're kicking off an NRE L study, uh, on it. And we are also working along with, um, groups in the field and an independent study all to. Well, a main bearing is a really expensive issue.

Um, and, and we're fine. People are just [00:06:00] finally figured out that they were failing because of electrical discharge. And, um, the high frequencies associated with that basically caused the brushes to become resistors and the bearings to become conductors. So, uh, we now have a technology that allows us to look at these very high frequency sound or.

High frequency 

Allen Hall: noise. Okay. Let's just use that as a test case for your system for iPath CMS, because. That is one issue that pretty much everybody in the United States that uses a particular OEM has 

Howard Penrose: actually, uh, you, you got, you hit it on the head. It's just like the old W Ring thing. Everybody thought it was a specific, uh, generator manufacturer turned out to be every DFI failing the same way we discovered that.

Uh, we've also heard, uh, you know, a specific OEM and a specific. Type of platform. They were seeing the problems in the main bearings. And again, it just came about because people were talking about it. Except [00:07:00] guess what? We're not just seeing it in the us, we're seeing it globally. That's one of the benefits we have with so many users worldwide is we're finding out that all of these problems are not unique to us.

They're global in nature and they're cross platform. 

Joel Saxum: So when we talk cross platforms and, and you, the listeners here will notice that I've been markedly absent from the conversation so far. 'cause it's a bit over my head. Sorry. No, it's, it's just, this is, this is great stuff. But what I, that was one of the things I was wondering while we were going through this is we were talking about, um.

Solutions that you guys have that can solve specific problems. Now, does this say I have a direct drive turbine? Or like, is, is there any models or any types of technology that you can't work on out in the field or does it Basically we have a solutions that can cover all turbines regardless 

Howard Penrose: if it's got a magnetic field, whether it's a generator, motor, or transformer, we can see it.

I can follow that. So we even, we even, we even use [00:08:00] the technology in the industrial side for power monitoring for plants. Because we get, uh, we get good insights on what's coming into the facility and what the facility's putting back into the system, in particular with high frequency noise and stuff like that, that utilities are just now starting to pay attention to.

Joel Saxum: It's just, this is an important thing for the CMS system that you guys have, because I'm, I'm thinking right now, okay, now, now again, I'm gonna dumb this way down, um, in my. Built Jeeps that I've done in the past, I've gotten death wobble in the steering wheel because of oscillations in the front axle.

Right? But that only happens at a certain speed, right? If I, if I could, if I could get through second gear at about 4,000 RPMs and grab third, I'm fine. But if I have to shift to 2,500 RPMs, about 32 miles an hour, I'm in a world of hurt, right? I'm, I'm shaking this thing down the road. So turbines I know will do that sometimes at certain RPM.

They will have vibration issues that will either go away or expand a resonance or natural [00:09:00] frequency. 

Howard Penrose: Yeah, 

Joel Saxum: right. Like at, at at, um, you know, four RPM is one thing at seven and a half rpm it goes away. So having cm, your CMS system, that's their continuously monitoring when the wind speeds are low, when they're high, when.

Does that help you pick up different anomalies within the turbine to be able to kind of pinpoint what's, what could be happening? 

Howard Penrose: No, because those frequencies are always present. They just amplify at certain points in speed, right? They, they hit a natural frequency, so they just oscillate like mad. Uh, I'm rereading all of my Tesla books right now.

So where, where he talks about that, you know,...

The hosts discuss the recent $62 million funding round for Aerones, Siemens Energy's call for increased offshore wind capacity in the UK, Canada's push for offshore wind with Bill C-49, and the installation of Vestas' 7.2 MW turbine in Germany. And the Coyote Wind Farm in Texas as the Wind Farm of the Week.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

You are listening to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by build turbines.com. Learn, train, and be a part of the Clean Energy Revolution. Visit build turbines.com today. Now here's your hosts, Alan Hall, Joel Saxon, Phil Totaro, and Rosemary Barnes. 

Allen Hall: And welcome back to the Uptown Wind Energy Podcast.

I'm here with Rosemary Barnes, Joel Saxon, and Phil Ro. Uh, crazy week. Again, I don't know how else to describe it. The, I was just telling our producer this morning that there's so much news coming out where it seemed like to be a little bit of a lull after the US House bill, but it's picked right back up again.

And one of the more exciting things that's happened is A owns closed a $62 million series B. Uh, led by Activate Capital and S two G with, uh, revenue growing at Aeros by about 300% in 2024, and they are getting a lot of requests from [00:01:00] operators in the United States and elsewhere to fix their wind turbine blades.

They have been working pretty closely with GE Renova and NextEra. Over the last, what Joel say two years, maybe a little bit longer on a number of problems. 

Joel Saxum: Yeah. A couple years they've been doing, uh, bespoke solutions for both of them. They've also been doing their, you know, standard things that they're rolling out to the rest of the market.

But I think this is a good thing. In one article that I was reading, there is like a tier one operator starting to adopt it, right? So. Everybody was kind of approaching that robotic thing, like, yeah, it looks like it's the future and, you know, but a little trepid, right? Dipping a toe in or dipping a finger into the water, trying it out.

But now it seems like, hey, we got an LEP campaign, coones, we've got this robotics problem we wanna solve, collar owns. So they're starting to get more and more adoption and, and that shows, right, 300%, uh, revenue growth in 2024. So that's, that's huge, right? To, to hit that kind of number. So now it's up to, uh, scaling up.

Uh, the only thing that can cap that number is the amount of robots that they can put outta the [00:02:00] factory over there in Riga. 

Allen Hall: And we visited their facility in the United States about a year ago. It was just outside of Dallas, near Lake Dallas of all places. And it is a decent sized facility, but at the time we, when we walked around out back, you just noticed a whole bunch of, uh, parking lot spaces with trailers and capabilities for robots and thought, wow, that there's a lot of robot, uh, sitting in the parking lot.

And, uh. But then they had, when I asked they, they said, oh, they had a ton of crews already out in the field working. So they do have the ability to get to a number of turbine sites. I, I guess maybe still not enough from what I hear, there's, the demand has gone through the roof. 

Joel Saxum: Well, it's, it's a really interesting, or really cool, I guess, opportunity for technicians.

So that's one of the things that robotics does is it addresses the technician shortage. You got a technician shortage, great, let's use robots. Then we can start, uh, having that force multiplier, right? Because you could run robots on two turbines from one control van. You can do a lot of stuff there. But as a technician, [00:03:00] what a great opportunity.

If you know blades, if you know in the field, you don't even have to know that stuff. Not even go work with robotics and AI and like the future of cool things. And I know that a Rowan's part of their growth and their plans here, they got the $62 million. Of course, we don't know all the plans they are gonna do with that, but I do know that they're making a push to hire locally to get local talent, to get local back office to expand their presence in the states.

'cause it's a, it's a, it's a huge market here, right? So they've brought on some, some more, uh, horsepower locally from the states, whereas before they were having to bring a lot of technicians over from, from Europe. They've started to crack into that and use more local stuff to be able to do things faster and more efficiently, which is, uh, you know, that's better for all the, all their customers as well.

Allen Hall: Well, I think one key about this announcement is when opportunity presented itself, I. Rowans went after it. And that opportunity was with GE Renova on some tip mast additions. And there was a lot of [00:04:00] blaze that needed some more weight in the tip, and the robot could do it faster. I think at the time, uh, GE was planning on doing it with technicians on ropes, and then, uh, aeros demonstrated they could do it faster, more consistently with robotics, and that was the opening that they needed.

I don't remember how many, uh, blades they have done that, uh, addition to, but it's gotta be in the thousands at this point. 

Joel Saxum: I'd say this about that Arons team. I mean, you, you and I know Dyna crews very well, the CEO, we know the CTO, we know the sales team. Some of the operations people, they are not shy on grabbing an opportunity and running with it.

And, and I'll also, this the, one of the, one of, in the, in the wind industry, one of the best companies I've seen. Run with primary market research, right? Where someone says, here's a problem, can you help us solve it? Boom. They're on it, creating a solution tomorrow. Um, and not a lot of people do that very well.

So [00:05:00] I think that's been part of their, their prowess in, in the scale that they've done. And what of course, and oversubscribed funding round means you're doing something right. And I, and I think that that shows. 

Allen Hall: Over in the uk, Siemens Energy's UK Vice President warns that allocation round seven, which is upcoming, must award a record six gigawatts of offshore wind capacity to maintain the trajectory towards the 43 to 50 gigawatt goal by 2030.

Target that the UK has set up for itself and there are, the UK is at about 15 gigawatts at the minute, and. So the, the push from Siemens is we have a factory in haul. We make blades and make turbines. We we're really good in offshore work, but we really need to go. Uh, and that's driven by governments putting out, uh, awards and driving the industry forward.

And, and Siemens UK vice president is saying, now's the time. Now is a time that they really need to show progress. I think that's [00:06:00] generally true. If you do look at, and if you, Joel, I don't know if you saw this, or maybe Phil, you saw this this week. Uh, the UK put out a map of where all the wind farms are and where all the permanent or the rare earth magnets were located and when those farms are gonna come offline in an effort to potentially recycle those rare earth magnets.

So you have this nice little. A year by year map of the decommissioning of one cype decommission when they could reuse those rare earth magnets. And you can see all the wind farms in the uk. There are a lot of wind farms right now in, mostly on the west coast. Well, some of the west coast, a decent amount on the East coast, but there's still a lot of onshore wind, which I didn't realize, uh, that.

UK government effort is really paying dividends, I think, but the rate's not enough. I guess that's the problem. The rate is not enough to keep up where their goals are. Phil is, are they gonna be able to do that even if they [00:07:00]do have a, an allocation round of, you know, upwards of six, seven gigawatts coming up.

Phil Totaro: That's the challenge. They have about, uh, 11,000 onshore turbines, um, in the UK at this point, according to, to our data, uh, and offshore, I forget what the turbine count is, but it, they're, they're up there in the, you know, 28 to 30 gigawatts now, um, that's operational or under construction, um, which is fantastic.

You know what Siemens is saying is that. Based upon what's happened in previous allocation rounds, um, specifically they didn't have enough capacity to serve the entire demand. Um, basically what they were willing to allocate at, at a particular price point. Uh, and so it left the project developers and independent power producers is left with, well either, you know, we've gotta go find a corporate power offtake, which really for uh, [00:08:00] an offshore wind farm is gonna be much.

More challenging to do, uh, than, than onshore because of the, the size and scale of these things. Of course. Um, so, you know, they are still largely dependent on the government, you know, facilitating this offtake through, you know, national Grid and, and the other grid operators to be able to have. That allocation of power and then, you know, more utility contracts get signed, um, that way.

And, and that's how people get fed. How 

Joel Saxum: many years, Phil, did they have that? Uh, like on there was an onshore moratorium against more new onshore wind. How many years did that last? 

Phil Totaro: I wanna say it was like eight. Uh, if memory serves to, just to clarify this, so the head of moratorium in Lower England, which is basically, you know, not Wales, not Scotland, not Northern Ireland or, uh, you know, any of the outer banks areas.

Um, but just lower [00:09:00] England,...

Allen Hall covers the appointment of Catrin Jung as Vattenfall's new head of wind division, the Netherlands reaching 20% renewable energy in 2024, Quebec's $1.1 billion funding for a major wind project, and France commissioning its first floating wind farm.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Good news from the offshore wind industry today. Vattenfall has named a new leader for its wind business division. Catrin Jung will take over as Head of Business Area Wind starting July first. Jung currently leads the company's offshore wind operations. She replaces Helene Bistrom, who is leaving the company. Jung joined Vattenfall in two thousand two. She has managed some of the company's largest investments in recent years. The wind division handles both offshore and onshore wind projects. It also manages large solar and battery projects. Jung says staying focused on fossil freedom is more important than ever in these uncertain times.

The Netherlands reached a major renewable energy milestone last year. Renewable energy made up nearly twenty percent of the country's total energy use in twenty twenty four. That's up from seventeen point four percent in twenty twenty three. Statistics Netherlands released the preliminary data. The increase comes mainly from new offshore wind turbines and more biodiesel use in transportation. The overall renewable energy consumption reached three hundred fifty eight petajoules. That's a fifteen percent increase from twenty twenty three. Biomass remained the largest renewable source. Wind came second, followed by solar power. Renewables were mostly used for electricity at sixty percent. Heat and cooling accounted for twenty eight percent. Transport fuels made up twelve percent. The share of renewables has more than doubled compared to five years ago.

A major wind energy project in Quebec has secured its funding. Invenergy and a consortium of 209 municipalities and territories in Eastern Quebec announced the closing of one point one billion dollars Canadian in financing. The money will fund the PPAW 1 Wind Energy Centre. The work will create three hundred fifty jobs during construction. Construction will happen throughout twenty twenty five and twenty twentysix. Commercial operation is expected in late twenty twenty six. Once operational, the project will add three hundred fifty megawatts to the local grid.

France has achieved a renewable energy first. EDF Renewables has fully commissioned the country's first floating wind farm. The Provence Grand Large wind farm has a power capacity of twenty five megawatts. The farm features three floating wind turbines installed seventeen kilometers off the France's Mediterranean coast This is the first floating wind farm in France and across the entire Mediterranean basin. The project uses unique anchoring technology. Siemens Gamesa built the turbines. They're installed on floats with tight anchor lines. The technology was inspired by systems used to stabilize oil platforms. SBM Offshore and IFP Energies Nouvelles developed this technology. It's suitable for deep sea areas and provides excellent float stability. Bernard Fontana, Chairman and CEO of EDF, says the project helps diversify renewable energy sources. He calls it an important project for France's energy sovereignty. The experience will help with construction of EDF's second floating wind farm, Mediterranee Grand Large. EDF was awarded that contract in December twenty twenty four.

Carlos Oliveira, CEO of Fibersail, discusses their advanced fiber optic technology for early detection of wind turbine blade damage, reducing downtime and optimizing maintenance for wind farm operators.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Allen Hall: Wind turbine blade failures cost the industry billions annually. Today we're talking with Fibersail, CEO, Carlos Oliveira About their innovative fiber optic technology that detects early blade damage before catastrophic failures occur. Learn how their shape sensing system is helping wind farm operators reduce downtime and optimize maintenance.

Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining Light on Wind. Energy's brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow.

Carlos, welcome to the program.

Thank you for having me here. 

Allen Hall: This is gonna be a fascinating discussion. when I was over at Wind Europe, the activity around your booth was really good. a lot of interested people wanting to learn more about the technology and how to protect their blades and be able to determine early if they have blade problems.

And I think everybody on the [00:01:00] podcast knows that blades are a huge issue financially. And we just don't have enough information about how they are moving structurally or what kind of structural issues they're having. How big do you think this problem is, Carlos? 

Speaker 3: I agree with you. So we have quite a busy Wind Europe event.

we were really full all the, time. and I think that, the problem is really, getting out, right? It's every year, more than. Five, $6 billion are being spent in non-planned repairs activities. and this is impacting a lot to the bottom line of the industry. what we knew at fiber cell 3, 4, 5 years ago, that the problem was really big Honda blades.

Now it's mainstream knowledge. big companies are putting billions of euros, in, recognizing losses because of this issue. And more and more customers are coming to us. it's [00:02:00] really a big issue and we believe that, it can really put in danger the wind industry as a whole. 

Allen Hall: Yeah. And even if you buy a new turbine today, there is very little information that comes from the blades themselves.

A lot of it is coming from the SCADA system, and that's, those SCADA systems are not designed to detect this sort of. Issues that Fibersail can detect. Correct? 

Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think it's we are building bigger and bigger blades, using old technology, right? It does not work. you have a mixture for a big explosion happening, and that's exactly what we are seeing.

If in the past, the turbines, they were showing problems after 5, 6, 7, 8 years of operation. Today we have customers that come to us. with big problems in blades after one, two years of operation, some of them still during the warranty period. So it's really becoming a big issue and that's where our shape sensing technology kicks in because we have advanced sensing technology.

For the most [00:03:00] advanced, turbines out there and the new ones, it's really good interior, but the reality is a different story. 

Allen Hall: how soon should you install a system onto a blade, particularly a new blade? Should it go in at the factory or, immediately after in the warranty period, or a lot of operators that we have seen, like to install them at year five or six of operation, which seems.

Late to us. 

Speaker 3: I tend to agree, we would prefer to have it installed, at the manufacturing. we know it's not, straightforward. and what we're doing, and this is let's say our go-to market strategy, we are working with end customers, the owner operators of the turbines. the ones that have the hurdle, they have the problem to solve.

And we are working with, many of them. We are deploying, we are doing a retrofit installation. And that data then can be used to convince CEMS to integrate this technology. Of course, that's our end goal. we understand it'll take, a bit of time, [00:04:00] transparency, the level of transparency we bring with our, chef sensing technology.

sometimes, people try to avoid it, at the beginning, but we want really to use the data from the field and the value that we deliver to our customers. To push this into the product. So hopefully the next place that, the customers are buying from the OEMs will have, fiber cell technology, inside it.

Joel Saxum: Let me ask you a little bit of a question about that, how it fits into the marketplace. 'cause we're gonna get into the amazing technology that you guys have. But I just wanna understand, because when we talk to operators a lot of times we're like, Hey, I'd love to implement this solution, but hey, I can't do this until end of warranty.

Or it's, I'm under full service agreement for the next five or 10 years, or whatever that may be. And the OE EMM doesn't wanna allow me to put this CMS on or this aftermarket product or these things. and contractually those things can be, those contracts can be pretty tight where you can't even put stuff on that's even air gapped.

How have you [00:05:00] guys dealt with, that, or have you ran into those, hurdles yet? 

Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. We, have, so we, there are different kinds of customers. Of course. If there is no contract, trying to block anything like this, we can, we have an easy entry. And we have some customers like that. others, they really fall into what you said, some of them even during the warranty, period.

we, at Five Cell, we are our position here, we are a solutions provider and we position ourselves as a solutions provider for the industry, not necessarily for one or the other side of the industry. So we don't want to be used. As a source of information for one side of the industry to try to attack the other side.

We really see that the industry has an issue and, we want to provide transparency to avoid costs and to make wind, competitive, source of energy. and so in those, [00:06:00] situations, usually we try to do a cooperation with three parties. So fiber cell gen customer, and the OEM, if possible. So we always try to invite them.

To the table if possible. because, we, have cases where actually, the contract is blocking the entry of, sensing technology like ours, but the customer is losing above the cap of compensation from the O end. So they are losing lost production. So the problem is really big. So there needs to be a, found a solution.

At the same time, the OEM is losing money because they are paying the compensation okay, till the cap. But they are paying a lot of money and they'll need to pay this for 20 plus years. So we position ourselves as a solution provider on both hands. Of course, it's not easy, but as I usually said here with the team, if it was easy, it was already done.

So we are in the. let's 

Allen Hall: talk about the technology just for a [00:07:00] moment. It's obviously Fibersail. The technology is in the name, it's fiber, but I, wanna understand a little bit about how are you using the fiber, how it's installed, where does it go? What is the, electronics or the electrical boxes that are connected to it?

What does the system look like? 

Speaker 3: as I said, fiber, it's easy. The sail part I can do here a connection, right? Fi fiber cells started measuring the shape of the sail of the sailboat. and now what we're doing is applying the technology to a different cell, right? A blade is a rooted cell and what we are doing is really to get the added level of information of how that sale is behaving, in real time.

And so what, we build actually is our shean technology. That's the unique approach. We built a fiber optics beam that we glue inside the plate. We go from the root till where we can install in the retrofit. Of course, when we do the integration in the product, in the end, we can go all the way to the [00:08:00]tip.

But that's a possibility for a later stage. and basically we encapsulate all the fiber optics, all the. technology that does require, more, detailed level of expertise from the people in the field. We encapsulate everything into a system and then we hand over the system, to a normal field technician that can simply glue our sensor to the blade, plug the power, and then we are on, 

Allen Hall: we are working.

Wow. Okay. And how many pieces of fiber would typically go in a blade? Is it a, bundle of fibers in one specific area, or is it. Spread out across the blade structure. 

Speaker 3: We have, two products today. We are working onto the next two. they are still, not at commercial level, but basically we have, our shade sensor.

That's our, core technology. But we also have, for example, in our product line, the standard load sensors. It'll be incredible to know that more and more customers also need this kind of data. [00:09:00] even basic load sensing data is not available for the end customer and we can provide it. and so the setup really depends on what the customer wants.

So if the customer just wants, very limited information, for example, we can provide a system with the load sensors in it. If the customer wants, for example, early damage detection, we put our shape sensor in it and we actually had on top. Hotspot sensor to do really the early damage detection. So it really depends on what the customer needs, what we do, we call it internally, tailored made, but at scale it's that we adjust and we make a system using all the resources we have in our product line, to offer the customer solution that works and then it works for that turbine ty

This week we discuss Australia's recent cancellation of wind projects due to political changes and community opposition, the complexities of grid interconnects, and the need for strategic renewable energy planning.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

You are listening to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by build turbines.com. Learn, train, and be a part of the Clean Energy Revolution. Visit build turbines.com today. Now here's your hosts, Allen Hall, Joel Saxum, Phil Totaro, and Rosemary Barnes. 

Well, welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I am Allen Hall and I'm here with Rosemary Barnes, who's fresh from. Sweden, she just traveled all around the world to record this episode. Uh, Phil Totaro is out in California and Joel Saxum is up in the cold north of Wisconsin. And we, we've been just discussing off air. All the craziness has been happening in the wind industry.

And I, I have to admit, you know, I thought last week was. Insane. Well, we just, uh, put it on steroids. So not only are we canceling a lot of projects in the United States currently, we're all, we're starting to be cancel [00:01:00] them on Australia and over in Queensland. The Queensland Deputy Premier, uh, has used his ministerial powers to refuse planning approval for the moonlight range when Farm Near Rock Hampton.

Now I, and I'm sure I murdered that name Rosemary, so please forgive me, but it was gonna have 88 turbines in about 450 megawatts of capacity, enough to power about a quarter million homes in Australia and tied with, it's about 300 construction jobs and 10 permanent positions to make that wind farm go.

But there's was like a two month public consultation period that happened. And during that consultation period, about 80 per 90% of the local residents, and when I say local residents are about 150 local residents, uh, replied back and were concerned about some of the, the known people that are gonna be there because it's gonna like double the population, right.

And 300 construction workers in a, an area of 140 people, 150 people. Uh, and based on [00:02:00] that boom, perhaps the, the project was canceled. What is happening in Queensland that we need to understand that projects just kinda get wiped away like that with 140 people, 150 people chiding in. 

Rosemary Barnes: So what's happened is that the Queensland government, the Queensland State Government, it was labor for quite a while and they had, uh, renewables targets and net zero targets and stuff like that.

And then, um, the government changed last year, so now there's a, a liberal government, which means conservative in Australia. They're in power and they wanted to change their planning regulations. But what is a bit weird is that they wanna do it retroactively. So they've changed the rules in April, and now they're going through projects that have already been approved to see if they meet the new rules rather than the rules at the time that they were approved.

But the weirdest thing is that I'm pretty sure that this specific wind farm that they revoked, they were the ones to approve it shortly after [00:03:00] they came into government. They approved this wind farm and then they changed the rules a few months later, and then they did a new round of community consultation.

Um. And they say that 85% of local residents were, um, you know, in favor of reassessing. The issue is that now we're at this stage of the energy transition where, you know, we're up over 40% renewables across Australia. Um, that's primarily wind and solar. We're getting to the point now where we kind of, you can't just add things as they're convenient and easy.

You have to get a bit more strategic. Think about the whole energy system. I was looking forward to that coming online because it will make the whole system more robust and less, um, yeah, less fluctuations. You know, it would really even things out quite a lot to have, um, a lot of that Queensland wind in the mix.

So it will be a, a real shame and a, a problem for, uh, the whole of the Australian East Coast Grid. If Queensland opts out of any more wind energy. 

Speaker 4: But once [00:04:00] they approve these plans, it sort of, you have to think about the grid as an entity and unplugging some capacity. There does have consequences further down the transmission line in this case.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, but each, each state has responsibility if they're interconnected, but each space, each state has responsibility that they are gonna be okay regardless of what, they can't control what the other states do. So. Every, um, every state has to make sure that they are okay on their own, and they are, they are planning for that, you know.

Um, so yeah, like Victoria's got, got a lot of plans for, for batteries and interconnectors and stuff, and, uh. I mean, new South Wales is building renewable energy zones. Everyone's got their own plans moving ahead. It would've, it would've made the whole job easier. But you know, like any interconnector, um, or yeah, interconnection between two, two grids, you can't, like, you kind of, you plan for it, but you can't, you have to also plan for the scenario where that interconnection goes down or you, you know, [00:05:00]um, whatever reason you might not get the energy that you plan on from the other states.

So. It is a tricky, tricky aspect I think of planning. 

Joel Saxum: Mir. Lemme ask you a question, and this is popping into my head right now because it's basically political games between parties and these kind of things. And normally we don't talk politics on the show and we try to stay away from that. And I'm going to, I'm gonna skirt it.

But a couple months ago I, when I was uh, down, I was invited to testify the Texas Senate and I was uh, always amazed. The lack of technical knowledge in the room, right? There's these people setting their chain. They're, they're putting bills forward, they're putting things, doing things that really affect the general populace, but their knowledge base is coming from like their chief of staff and their chief of staff is a political science major, and that person is just googling whatever.

They want to see in the bill, so they're putting things out that just didn't make sense. Right. When it comes to Australian [00:06:00] politics, is it the same kind of stuff? Is it more of just like these political arguments versus the technical ones, or how do they get information into these decisions? Because this decision to me just seems like.

It seems like it's not based in, in scientific fact or scientific method around anything. It's just like, oh, we don't like these things. Let's get rid of 'em. 

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I don't think it's trying to be based. They're not, they're not even the, yeah, the government is not trying to say that it's based on any kind of science or anything they're saying that it, you know, they're mostly citing things that community consultation.

Um, so you know, it's more about people's feelings, which is, you know, a valid, a valid thing. I was listening to a podcast about Texas, actually, I'm halfway through it still, um, about what's going on there with, um, some of their proposals to, you know, require everybody to have a hundred percent firming for each individual project.

And I do think that Texas is trying really hard to, uh, you know, like, um, to, to, you know, they've got, you've got a pretty flexible system and allow, you know, [00:07:00] um, uh. And allow companies to make their own decisions about how, you know, what kind of energy sources they're gonna have and how they're gonna make money and let the market take care of it to a certain extent.

And it's really similar to the Australian electricity market as well. They're, um, they are, they do share a common basis and some of the same people worked on the, um, market design of both of them. But I feel like Texas is trying as hard as possible to intervene to make sure that none of the, you can get none of the benefits and all of the disadvantages of a system like that.

So. That is a bit interesting, 

Speaker 4: but at some point, Rosemary, and maybe we'll talk about this after the break, maybe that's the thing to do, is to talk about this after the break. It takes so long to get projects approved because of the interconnect that this engineers have to go back and look, make sure if this is going to work, how do they connect this energy source into the grid?

How do they make it work in the United States? And I want, I want want to get over the break here. I want to talk to Phil about this. We spent all this time doing the engineering work and then all of a sudden, poof, it's gone. What [00:08:00] is the point of doing all the engineering work? Engineering? If at a moment's notice you can yank this project, 

Speaker 9: don't let blade damage catch you off guard.

eLog ping sensors detect issues before they become expensive to consuming problems from ice buildup and lightning strikes to vibrations and internal cracks. EOGs Ping has you covered. Their cutting edge sensors are easy to install, giving you the power to easily stop damage before it's too late. Visit eLog ping.com and take control of your turbine's health.

Today,

Speaker 4: Phil, explain what is happening on the interconnect and why it takes so long to get projects approved and all the in supposedly because of engineering, it takes a long time to understand what effect of adding a 500 megawatts will do to a grid....

In this episode of Uptime News, Allen covers leadership changes at Eneco, historic renewable energy deals in Poland, strong support for wind energy in Ireland, and a surge in American clean energy investment.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Welcome to Uptime News. Flash Industry News Lightning fast. Your host, Allen Hall, shares the renewable industry news you may have missed.

Allen Hall: Leading off the week, there's a leadership change at a major European energy company. As Templeman is stepping down as CEO of Dutch Energy firm, Eneco on August 1st.

Templeman is leaving to become the new chief executive of lighting company, signify in September. Eneco says Kees Jan Rameau will serve as interim CEO starting July 4th. The company's board has already started searching for a permanent replacement. Templeman joined an Eneco as CEO in July of 2020.

The supervisory board chair Mel Kroon says Templeman led the successful launch of the company's one planet plan before Eneco. Templeman held senior positions at Shell across [00:01:00] Asia, Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. Over in Poland, energy companies have closed one of the largest renewable energy deals in European history. Norwegian firm, Equinor, and Polish company, Polenergia, have secured 6 billion euros in financing for two offshore wind projects. That's about $6.8 billion. The companies say it's the largest project finance deal in Poland's energy history.

The Baltic two and Baltic three Wind Farms will feature 100 turbines with a combined capacity of 1.4 gigawatts. Polenergia, CEO Adam Purwin says they have secured financing from around 30 institutions. He says The company's obtained exceptionally favorable terms despite challenging market conditions, construction has already begun.

Onshore marine operations will start next year. The wind farms should begin full commercial operation in 2028, and they'll provide power to more than 2 million [00:02:00] Polish households.

And Irish citizens are showing strong support for wind energy development. A new national survey by Wind Energy Ireland found 80% of the public supports wind energy development, 62% back having a wind farm in the local area. The survey found people support wind energy because it offers more affordable electricity and reduces carbon emissions.

Energy independence was also a key motivator. CEO. Noel Cunniffe says, Irish people know wind power is the leading solution to rising energy costs and climate change. He says, wind power is already helping reduce electricity prices and create jobs.

75% of those surveys support offshore wind energy. 82% recognize its role in securing Ireland's energy supply. Research shows Ireland's offshore wind farms could generate 38 billion euros for the Irish economy by 2050.

And American clean energy investment continues to surge. The American [00:03:00] Clean Power Association says developers installed 7.4 gigawatts of new solar, wind and storage capacity in the first quarter. That represents $10 billion in domestic investment. The trade group says it was the second strongest start to a year on record.

Battery storage achieved record first quarter installations surpassing 30 gigawatts of total capacity nationwide. The development pipeline grew 12% to reach 184 gigawatts. That represents $328 billion in potential project investment. CEO. Jason Grumet says, clean power is shovel-ready at scale. He says the industry has a technology.

Investment capital and workforce needed. Grumet warns that the greatest threat to reliable energy is an unreliable political system. That's this week's top. News stories. Stay tuned for the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast tomorrow.

Joseph Chacon, CEO of Padge LLC, discusses the impact of electrical harmonics on wind turbines and solar systems, providing insights into causes, consequences, and effective solutions for improving power quality.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining Light on Wind. Energy's brightest innovators. This is the Progress Powering tomorrow.

Allen Hall: Joe, welcome to the show. 

Joseph Chacon: Thank you. I appreciate it. 

Allen Hall: Well, I'm glad we connected, uh, through Jon Zalar, I believe, and we don't talk electrical power creation or what that. Kind of power we're creating and what the effect of that power is on systems downstream very often, uh, the Uptime podcast, because there's so many wind turbine issues, is mostly focused on mechanical problems.

But we're finding that more and more problems may have an electrical origin. We wanted to get an expert in here that would be you to come help us on harmonics because there are requirements about harmonics. 

Joseph Chacon: There are, uh, IEEE five 19 governs [00:01:00] the requirements for harmonics. At the point of common coupling.

Allen Hall: That's correct. And your prior experiences with ge, which is now GE Renova down in South Carolina, that's correct. But you were involved, maybe give a brief description of the things you're working on because when electrical people talk, um, kind of gets lost in translation. You were knee deep, maybe waist deep, maybe eyeballs deep and electrical 

Joseph Chacon: power at GE Renova?

No, not, not knee deep, not weight deep, waist deep. I was baptized, completely immersed all the way in. I came shortly after the Enron acquisition. Um, I was one of the electrical engineering managers at the time. We had, uh, I think two or three at the time. Um, this was pretty early on. Uh, I got out of that because, uh, I'm, I like management, but I, I like electrical engineering, so I wanted to go back to being an individual contributor.

Um, so I've touched just about [00:02:00] every electrical thing you can think of in a wind turbine. And also in solar 

Joel Saxum: as well. You know, a little bit of a sidebar here 'cause I want, we want to definitely get into this deep technical conversation, but Joe, you touched on something that happens to people, right? You're a really good engineer, you've run a team, you've solved some problems.

So now you get promoted to management, but you don't get to engineer as much anymore. So you get, like, you get, you start being leadership and like doing all these things, how to manage people, how to run a team, this, that, and that's great. We need that. The industry, every industry globally, we need to be able to do those things.

But for engineers that have engineer at heart, and I'm, I'm also looking at you, Alan Hall. Uh, they, they wanna be able to engineer, right? They wanna be able to do stuff to make a difference to, to, to get hands on with a problem. So, so you, so you've done that though, right? That that's you, you are now, uh, Josh Shahan is, uh, pad LLC and 

Joseph Chacon: pod is short for Padre, which is what my kids and grandchildren call me.

They just shortened it from Padre to podge. 'cause saying two [00:03:00]syllables was too much and I liked it. 

Joel Saxum: Yeah, I like that. Okay, so, so, so like we said, uh, you, you, you guys, you're getting deep into harmonics and other issues. You get called in by Solar Farms to solve problems and, and this is the thing Alan and I were kind of talking about off air a little bit is.

W we have a bit of a culture like in wind right now of electrical problem, swap, swap apart, swap apart in, swap apart out. But nobody's looking at the, the root cause of why or why did this thing fail, and how can we, you know. Make this more robust for the future. And that doesn't just stop at components in the turbine.

It's, it's BOP, you know, and this is, like you said, also solar and, and other industrial facilities as well. But that's what you tackle, right? 

Joseph Chacon: Yeah. And you know, you mentioned John Zellar, uh, great, great root cause analysis guy. Uh, does fishbone, uh, ad modeling, things like that, um, what's your observation that you're seeing?

I think is correct. People ignore. [00:04:00] One of the fundamental root causes for a lot of issues, um, not just in renewable energy, but anywhere you have, uh, large amounts of nonlinear loading, uh, these days. That's primarily coming from data centers. Um, with the advent of the diode six pulse front end, uh, variable frequency drive, uh, IGBTs, any type of switching device.

It's only getting worse. It will never get better because we are putting more and more non-linear loads on the utility and fewer and fewer linear loads. Even our lighting today, we don't use incandescent anymore. It's all either LED, well, we used to do fluorescent, but LED is a horrific offender for harmonics.

So, and I hate to pick on that technology because. They all really are. Um, so a solar inverter, a wind turbine converter, uh, a UPS, any type of [00:05:00]device is going to introduce more harmonic content into the grid. So you got the issue where the device itself has harmonic content, couple to a grid that's getting more and more harmonic content already on it.

So the situation is definitely getting more and more exacerbated. 

Allen Hall: So some of those harmonics have really significant consequences. Uh, if you go to podge LLC on YouTube, you can watch some of the discussion there and walk through the equations about what harmonics can do to equipment on generators. Up in the the wind turbines, you can actually damage some of the Y connections on those, uh, defi generators.

It can causes all kinds of problems. And I know one of the issues that's, and it's being sussed out right now, so we're talking about it live as it's happening, is, uh, they're seeing transients come from the line back up to, to the turbine and are causing problems to the electronics. Straight harmonics.

And the same thing coming [00:06:00] out of some of the turbines is the harmonics can be strong. And in one of your videos you talked about what kind of damage you can do with a transformer if you have harmonics that are significant enough. It's, it's surprising. How you can shorten the life of a transformer 

Joseph Chacon: correct, or any magnetic circuit, uh, generators, motors, transformers, anything that's going to take, uh, electrical conversions to magnetic conversions and back or vice versa, any type of thing like that.

Uh, they cause extreme dielectric stress and extreme temperature changes. Um, and both of 'em are damaging. To devices like transformers, motors, generators, et cetera. 

Allen Hall: Yeah, because transformers and all that sort of magnetic equipment is designed to work around a core frequency. Typically 50 hertz or 60 hertz, depending on where in the world you are.

When you put other frequency components on that equipment, it's not designed to do that. So that turns into a lot of heat a lot of times, [00:07:00] and then you over temp or shorten a lifetime of. Transformers on the pads and up tower in some cases that don't. If you have a failure like that, uh, at a wind farm, I saw it most recently, uh, a couple of weeks ago, where they're replacing transformers, like, wow, it's only been there a year or two.

That shouldn't happen. There are other, so those kind of failures, unless you're paying attention, are just gonna repeat, right? Because replacing a. Pad transformer with another pad, transformer doesn't remove the source of the problem. It just puts in another fuse in the circuit. 

Joseph Chacon: Correct. And you know, let's say you put it in, in pick a year, January of 2015, and your harmonic content from utility can change over time.

So many times it's worth just taking a look at it. Um, in one of the videos you talked about. I promoted a [00:08:00] Fluke 1777 power quality analyzer tool that I use, and I rent that tool out to people that are wanting to do a study. Uh, and that's an economical way to do a study. Um, the technician or engineer or whoever puts that in does not necessarily need to know a lot about harmonics to set that up.

Uh, you're going to be putting in either three or four cts, depending upon whether you're a four wire or a three wire system. Then connections to your bus for voltage, and then you turn the fluke on and you verify that your currents are going in the right direction. So in Phase A current, it's phase A voltage, and you start a session and then you mail it back to me and I'll give you the report.

Um, and it does a lot more than just harmonics. Uh, and I basically, I run an IEEE five 19 report. It does sags swells, it does super harmonics. It does intra harmonics. Super harmonics [00:09:00] are harmonics that are higher than 50, um, 50 times the fundamental. So that's 50 times 60, uh, for 60 hertz people, or 50 times 50 for 50 hertz people.

And you, you mentioned Alan, that Transformers motors are designed for a certain frequency. Um, if you take a motor or a transformer and look at it, it's gonna tell you the frequency. Sometimes it's dual rate at 50 or 60. Um, but the engineer that designed that transformer motor is gonna take certain things into account related to the magnetic side to make sure that it's able to operate for that broad frequency range.

Low frequencies are quite bad. In fact, as you get towards dc DC you can't use magnetic circuits as a rule....

Lene Hellstern, Director of Engineering at PEAK Wind, discusses the complexities of onshore wind siting, the advantages of using LIDAR technology, and strategic considerations for turbine selection.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Allen Hall: We're back with Lene Hellstern, the Director of Engineering at PEAK Wind, and we're talking about onshore wind siting, which is a really critical issue that a lot of operators have difficulties with. And I've seen it in the United States and it's not good.

And I'm wondering from your perspective, what are some of the problems, Lene? Well first, welcome back to the podcast. 

Lene Hellstern: Thank you. And thanks for having me repeat experience last time, so I hope so. I thought I'll pop in again. 

Allen Hall: Well, it's good to have you back and thanks 

Lene Hellstern: for coming to Copenhagen. 

Allen Hall: Yeah, well we love Copenhagen.

It's great. Uh, I just wish it was a little bit warmer. Yeah, the sun is terrific. Yeah. When you're in it, well, at 

Lene Hellstern: least I fixed that. Right. Yes. It's not raining. It's not raining. Yes. 

Allen Hall: We, we quite enjoyed it. Uh, but I'm trying to get an understanding of what the underlying issues are with onshore wind siding and why some of the operators have difficulty later on.

Let's just start with the sighting [00:01:00] itself. Yeah. Is usually, we'll see a wind mast out on site for several months, maybe a year, maybe two years. To try to get some wind data. We would 

Lene Hellstern: really like that. Yeah. Okay. But, uh, the preferable measurements are lidars. 

Allen Hall: Oh, lidars. Yeah. I have not seen a lot of lidars in use.

Lene Hellstern: No. You, you need to get some more. 

Allen Hall: Why? 

Lene Hellstern: Um, because they reach higher. 

Allen Hall: Okay. 

Lene Hellstern: Um, and you can, uh, you can, you can move them around. Right. And the hassle of installing a Met Mass that's a hundred meters tall, is, uh, is it a problem? Quite, uh. Quite it, it cost a lot more. Yes. Um, and, and the lidars, they, they just, they're better and they measure higher.

And you can, you can have one sort of mother lidar and then you can move the other around and you can cover your wind resources and site suitability much better on the site. So I would definitely recommend 

Allen Hall: lidars. Okay. How the lidars use a [00:02:00] good bit of power to make them run, correct? Yes. So you need a decent power source?

Yes. 

Lene Hellstern: You do? Yes. 

Allen Hall: Okay. Yeah. I, is that one of the difficulties why they don't use a lidar? Is it just in a lot of remote areas, they don't have the power source to run it? 

Lene Hellstern: It could be, or it could be the, the lack of knowledge. Right. Traditionally we have used med masks, yes. 

Allen Hall: Forever. 

Lene Hellstern: Uh, so, so it could be, and then there are also some, um, uh, some issues with uncertainties because the lidar is the, the standards are not up to date.

I would say that's the political way correct way of saying it. So. Eh, the standard actually introduces more uncertainty on the lidar that's really not necessary to, due to a calibration with a me mast. Um, so that there's some, there's some things that needs to improve in that area 

Allen Hall: because a lidar should be a lot more accurate than a met mast.

Lene Hellstern: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But, but the, the downside of the lidar, so that, that is not often we see that, is if you don't have enough particles in the air, you have [00:03:00] an issue because then you are, you're simply not gonna be able to measure. The, the, uh, velocity of the particles because they're not there. And then you have a low availability on your measurements.

But, you know, most places there's, there's a quite a lot of dust. There's pollution. Um, so there, there are things in the air that we don't see, but the lighter sea and then you can make the measurements. 

Allen Hall: And as the hub heights have gotten taller, it gets a lot more difficult to get a met mass up that high.

So the lidars go can measure winds. How high up in the air? How many meters? I 

Lene Hellstern: think at least 250 meters. Wow. And, and you want, you want to, you know, traditionally you would only measure at hop height, but you wanna measure at the, the, the rotor surface, right? So you wanna measure at tip height, and you wanna measure at lower top tip and lower tip to, to see what, for instance, what's the wind share across your, uh, rotor disc.

Um, which 

Allen Hall: you cannot really do with a met mast at all. You can't do that. You have no [00:04:00] wind share knowledge. From that instrument? Sort of, yeah, 

Lene Hellstern: you can, because you can make, you always, you, you have a met mass that's at least at hop height, and then you have, uh, anemometers and wind veins and I don't know what on all the way down.

Um, and you can with, without that equipment, you can, you can measure on the lower part of the rotor, but not the upper part. So, so you, you do get some possibilities to measure wind share, but not as good as, um, for instance, a lidar. Yeah. 

Allen Hall: So how many lidars would you typically need on a 100 turbine site?

Lene Hellstern: Well, that depends. 

Allen Hall: Okay. 

Lene Hellstern: Because you have a, if you have complex terrain, 

Allen Hall: right? 

Lene Hellstern: Yeah. You may want a lot. Right. That's what I 

Allen Hall: was wondering if the more hills and valleys, the, the more lidars you will need, or more samples you'll need, or maybe the longer duration you'll need. Yes. 

Lene Hellstern: Yeah. And you, you would wanna, you know, it's always the best to measure it.

I think it's [00:05:00] ideally five years. Nobody does that five years. Nobody. No, no. But you should at least have two, right? 

Allen Hall: Yes. 

Lene Hellstern: Uh, and then you should do a proper long term correlation. Um, so, so that's, and how does 

Allen Hall: that, how does that accomplish Right now, let's just say we have a met mass. What I typically see is, has been a met mast out in the middle of the United States where the winds are pretty good.

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Allen Hall: And they have data. They have some data. Yeah. So typically I've seen them out there a year, maybe two years, and then. The, but the sites are massive. Yeah. They're, they're square miles. Yeah. Dozens of square miles. So it's big. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. I 

Allen Hall: dunno whether it's in kilometers, but a lot of square kilometers. So then they are trying to interpret interpretate that data that they have from the Met Mass on top of that.

I think they're looking a little bit forward in terms of who, what other wind farms may be surrounding us in the next several years. Yeah. 

Lene Hellstern: And that's, that's one of the challenges we have because there's a lot that. Uh, you, there's a lot of guessing. 

Allen Hall: Yes. 

Lene Hellstern: Um, and so if [00:06:00] you are planning a wind farm, you wanna know what goes on in the area.

You wanna map out the already existing turbines, uh, and what, what hop height, what rotor size, because you wanna be able to model them in your calculations. 

Allen Hall: That was really good. Get to my question about how difficult this process is and how you try to address it. In the United States, we turn over wind turbines every 10 years, so there's a repowering happening and.

Almost always, the rotor size gets substantially bigger. 20 to 30 to 50% bigger. Right. So there's fewer turbines, same location. Yeah. And the turbines are roughly in the same spots, but they're just bigger rotor diameters. How do you then prepare for that? Do you use the old data or is the old data even applicable?

If I'm really dramatically increasing the rotor size, do I need to be doing more? LIDAR measurements before I make that repower, or how do I even cite that? Right. 

Lene Hellstern: Uh, you can, if you have some good SCADA data from your turbines, you can do some [00:07:00] modeling. And many of the sites actually have a met mast. They do a lot Yeah.

As a reference, right? Yes. Right. But that will be on it, it will have sectors where there's a lot of weight from the existing. 

Allen Hall: Okay. 

Lene Hellstern: So, and so I would, I would, I would try, I would filter your SCADA data from your site and see if, can I, can I use this? I'll take a look at the mid mass state and see, can I use this?

If not, I'll start a me mass campaign. Now the problem is if you're reusing the spots now, well first of all, that's a little bit difficult reusing because your foundation is dimension to an old generation turbine. Uh, let's say take someone a hundred, a hundred, uh, meter rotor, right? Right. But now you're going up in size.

Um, so that means everything gets heavier and bigger, right? So your foundation may not be suitable. The old foundation, normally they're over dimension. So you can, you can extend life or you could repower on them, but you would want a bigger turbine. [00:08:00] So you don't necessarily want to use the opposition, right?

And then you would wanna know what is in the pipe. You know, when can I get my, when can I start digging? Right? When can I start installing? Uh, what is in the pipeline at that point from the OEMs? Because sometimes it actually takes five years from, you start planning until you, you, you start digging. And in that time, if you, you,...

Allen, Phil, and Joel cover the low turnout at American Clean Power in Phoenix, the US House's budget bill affecting renewable energy incentives, security concerns over Chinese equipment, and a patent infringement lawsuit filed by 3S Lift.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

You are listening to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by build turbines.com. Learn, train, and be a part of the Clean Energy Revolution. Visit build turbines.com today. Now, here's your host. Allen Hall, Joel Saxum, Phil Totaro, and Rosemary Barnes. 

Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I'm Allen Hall, and I'm joined today by Phil Totaro and Joel Saxum.

Rosemary Barnes is over in Sweden, and Rosemary's gonna miss out on a very active week in renewable energy, at least in the United States. we should probably start with American clean power, which as we are recording, just finished the day. It was in Phoenix, Arizona. Things I've seen online, Joel, were that they were expecting around 10,000 people to attend that event, but watching LinkedIn, and I did not attend it this year, unfortunately, or fortunately, is my daughter's graduation.

So [00:01:00] I wanted to be there. I. But it looked like the hallways were pretty empty, which was a little shocking. 

Joel Saxum: Yeah. So Allen, I wanna preface what you said there by, changing, a CP was in Phoenix too. A CP was in 106 degrees Phoenix today. it was a little bit toasty walking around in the suit jacket, but, of course, everybody, had theirs on.

but no, you're, a hundred percent correct. I was there all week, of course, weather guard brand there, talking lightning with everybody and, strike tape. And we had the uptime wind energy banner. We talked to a ton of podcast fans, which was really cool. so the hallways were, Tuesday morning was great.

Tuesday afternoon, Wednesday, Thursday. It just got slimmer and slimmer. and, there was some kind of logistical things there too. This trade show was oddly on two different floors that were separated by four escalator sets. I think like it was a, maze to get up to the other thing. Yeah, it was, pretty wild, in that respect.

[00:02:00] And you saw some of the same players that you always see at these trade shows, right? But there was quite a few new ones walking around, doing a little, tour day, exhibit, exhibition floor. A lot of different new companies, that I wasn't used to seeing, in the solar space.

some software, some, a lot of little AI software things that you've been hearing about as well. battery storage, quite a few battery storage companies and that battery storage supply chain starting to spread out. You had some battery safety companies and stuff like that, which was great to see.

I know I talked to some of our insurance friends and they were bouncing around talking with all the battery storage people and the solar people and that kind of stuff. but yeah, it wasn't very heavy, heavily wind as it has been in the past we're, which we're, usually used to. another factor.

to walk the show floor was $1,600. [00:03:00] So that's, that, deters quite a people. And when, we had talked before we go to the show, of course we wanna connect with our clients, connect with colleagues, connect with old friends, and you start sending out these emails and there wasn't a whole lot of asset owners and operators coming as they, as we usually see, and it showed on the show floor.

I didn't talk to that many asset owners and asset operators as we usually do. I'm talking probably. A quarter of the traffic that we're used to from those people. 

Allen Hall: I Is that just because the, operators are trying to pull back on the travel budgets or was it more about just the state of the industry at the minute or were, because of the time of year and where it was the people that wanna travel to Phoenix, what.

What was the feeling there? 

Joel Saxum: I think it was a bit of all the above. OOMS, the ac, other a CP event, the operations and maintenance, which is, where a lot of our, focus is on the commercial side. That was a good event. That was a well attended event, Nashville this year. A [00:04:00] lot, quite a few asset owners and operators there.

So I think that, they used their budget on that one a little bit more this year than this. of course you're in Phoenix, which is an odd place. it's. Button up against Memorial Weekend, which is graduations, right Allen? so, it's a, it's not an awesome time of the year to be putting something like this on, in my opinion at least.

Phil Totaro: At least we're going to do it in Houston next year, when it's gonna be in June and even hotter. 

Joel Saxum: Yeah, it's first week of June next year for a CP in Yeah, in Houston. But in Houston, if you think about it this way too, there's quite a few wind companies there. There's ISPs there. There is operators there.

Dallas isn't far down the road that's got a bunch of ISPs and operators. Same thing with Austin, R-W-E-E-D-P-R-E-D-F, or stead. There's a bunch of players over in that area, so I, would expect that one next year to be more well attended because travel budgets, you can hop into car and drive [00:05:00] over there.

Allen Hall: you were in Phoenix. The US house passed a budget bill. that was, Approved this morning as we're recording, that would effectively end the clean energy production, tax credits, and the quote unquote boom in the United States that were spurred on by the IRA bill. And the, for the most part, there's, still a lot of discussion about this, so none of this is hard fact yet, and it has to go to the Senate.

So there's gonna be changes made and some bartering back and forth. but some key things here, the production tax credit gets shortened if you don't have projects started, roughly 60 days after the enactment of this bill. You're not gonna account for anything. So you gotta hurry up and start digging.

it, it eliminates a, big piece, which is the tax transfer. So when you get these. Production tax credits, you could sell them and [00:06:00] all the tax credits could be transferred and you could re get that cash upfront. the bill changes all that. So you would have to get a tax equity partner upfront, which generally is a bank, and that can be hard to go do in today's world.

So it's making it much harder for renewable projects to be developed if this bill were to be signed by the president, which. Who knows where it's gonna be a couple of weeks from now. Now, Phil, how big is the tax transferability piece of that? Because the discussion in the renewable crowd is that's probably the most important piece.

Phil Totaro: It, it is, setting aside the fact that this is gonna obviously have a big impact on. Greenfield project development, the, complete removal of any tax transferability, for PTC credits is a bit problematic in that not [00:07:00]everybody was taking advantage of it because it was a relatively new thing and enacted through the, inflation reduction Act in the first place.

So it's only been in place for three years at this point. Now, on the flip side of it. For anybody involved in operations and maintenance. This is probably a good thing. but again, setting aside the repowering question for now, and I'm again, as we record, there's no final language to this bill and this law.

it hasn't been signed in into law yet, so there's, all we can do is speculate on it. And assuming that they're gonna change the, immediate, as Allen said this, 60 day, window to start digging for your project, assuming they're going to kill that bit of it, which is likely, because that's just too fast of a ramp down.

what it's good for, what this bill is potentially good for, despite the fact that we [00:08:00] might be losing a production tax credit and investment tax credits. It will spur more companies to try and accelerate their plans for repowering and or life extension. 

Allen Hall: I wanna pause here. Take a quick break 'cause I want to come back.

I wanna talk about how much power production the US needs to add every year and what the breakdown is and what it's likely to be and why changing these. Production tax credits and all the existing IRA bill matters in the growth of the power network in the United States. Don't let blade damage catch you off.

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Visit OGs ping.com [00:09:00] and take control of your turbine's health today. All right, we're back and I have been doing a, good bit of research prior to this. IRA bill change that's likely to happen to see what. The power requirements are for the United States and what generally has been the growth because remember during a recent conversation with Rosemary, we were talking about the growth of AI and how is that gonna affect the amount of power usage and Rosemary's opinion was, is that gonna affect it that much?

I'm still not sure about that based on the research I'm doing, but just to give you some numbers here, the US needs to add about 33 gigawatts of production every single year over the next 10 years. just to stay even with the growth of technology and electricity usage plus, as older facilities get turned off, you gotta bring new ones on, right?

that creates a,...